Author Topic: What about a bit more of diversity (Read 2275 times)

muckmaw · « **Reply #45 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:07:11 PM »

Alright, I don't know the plane set as well as you do Urchin. But it's obvious HTC knows which planes are more capable than others. Thats how he assigned ENY values.

So forget about dates. Use the ENY values to assign perk rates.

And as for the newbies, they and everyone else gets a perk allowance at the beginning of each tour. So they can fly the UBER rides, but they must do so wisely, lest they lose all their perks.

Example: I personally was never much of a fighter pilot until the last 4 or 5 tours. So I don't have the perks a pure fighter jock has. I think I have 100 fighter perks...really...don't laugh. Now, I like to fly the C-hog. But I don't just fly it anytime. I save the perks for the missions the C-Hog is most needed for, and I fly the plane carefully, yet agressivly. It makes the game more interesting for me, because SURVIVING actually means something.

So the Noobs get their Perk allowance. They get their hot rides, and they are encouraged to survive. The vets with a million perks fly whatever they want, until they burn through their perks. Bottom line, we get more planes of different types in the arena, as people run out of perks. Everything but the lowest planes on the ENY scale get perked to some extent.

I mean, it's like any other MMORPG...you don't start with a 300 level elf, or whatever in Everquest. You earn it. Why should we not earn the better planes here?

Frankly, this debate will be moot ina few months when AHII comes out.

Karnak · « **Reply #46 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:10:41 PM »

I had a five or six to one kill death ratio in the Mosquito for the first half of this tour, then I screwed it up doing dumb stuff. But if I can get that kind of kill/death ratio in a slow, poor performing aircraft most everybody else should be able to do far better.

You don't have to be a masochist to fly aircraft other than the P-51D, La-7, Spitfire Mk IX, N1K2-J, Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10 or Typhoon. The other aircraft aren't that hard to use.

muckmaw · « **Reply #47 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:15:17 PM »

I've worked up an 8 to 1 kill ratio in the F6F...and I really suck!

The only thing I have to do is invest the time to climb out, so I have the E to catch the fast planes, and fly smart.

Personally, I hate the P-51. I can't do a damn thing with it. But with perk everything idea, even the F6F would be perked. I'm willing to take on the challenge for a more diverse MA.

But it does not matter. Like I said, AHII will make this thread moot...for me anyway. Hopefully, those staying in the MA will get what they want too.

lazs2 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:27:41 PM »

muck... I doubt that the fm2 or even the f6f would be 'perked' even if they were the value would be so low that I could fly one for the next 20 years... heck I would probly end up accumulating perks... I got like `10,000 of em now... the perk system sucks... it is unfair, unbalancing and it turns off new players.

If I wanted I could fly a tempest for the next 6 months ... I just think they are boring.

and mandoble... fly an FM2 and I guarentee that your kill variety will increase.
lazs

bockko · « **Reply #49 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:38:46 PM »

assuming lazs2 is lazs in the game, here is a guy who kicks butt in a less capable plane. In fact, judging by score he flies the fm2 with complete disregard to the performance traits of more capable planes. I would be much more willing to listen to perk talk if the best players consistently flew less capable planes, however this seems to be rare. When I see the 'balance the planes' crowd lead by example I will start listening seriously. Until then its one person's preference to another's. Oh and whoever the real lazs is, nice work!

Sixpence · « **Reply #50 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:40:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
It's not apples to oranges. They're both planes. One obviously should be perked, the other can be argued for either way. But your argument can be applied equally to both. If i pay my $15 a month, why shouldn't I be able to fly the 262?

Last tour I had 243 kills in a DHog. I had very good success against the La7, 262's were a different story.

It is apples to oranges- Prop plane to Jet plane.

I see what you are all getting at, but they would drive off customers if they perked all the late war planes. Alot of pilots are of the novice group, but they like to be competitive. If you take away the planes that give them a fighting chance against the dedicated sim pilot, they will get frustrated easy and say"this game sucks, I'm going to FA3.5, WB, IL2, where at least I can fly an La7." Who wants to fly a P40?

Those victories by the novice pilot in those La7's and Niks that you so despise, keep them happy. And that's not a bad thing. If they are getting defeated in a p40 by the the good pilots over and over, they are not going to keep flying this sim.

What I do think is a good argument is the score in these planes. I think winning $50 bucks a month flying a spit9 or a Nik oppposed to someone who flew a p40 all month is wrong. I'm not sure how the rank system works, but if you have success in a p40, your score should be multiplied tenfold.

The bottom line is they have to keep the average sim pilot happy, so they will not perk these planes.

muckmaw · « **Reply #51 on:** March 14, 2003, 02:56:50 PM »

Lazs-

That is the inherint problem. Guys like you who have a ton of perks wcan fly and die the better rides forever. The fact that you fly the FM2 so much, as much as I hate to admit it, is commendable, and proof of your character. You could be tooling aorund in a 262, but you choose not to. Why? I suspect you enjoy a challenge. Could it be we actually have something in common? Please call me a "Fluffer" before we start getting along.

But we can't just wipe the slate clean, and take away everyones perks. There'd be a revolution. People assaulting the grapevine office, carrying torches and pitchforks....

So we're kind of screwed here.

My point to sixpence is like I said earlier. If novice pilots dropped AH just because they could not always have their hot ride, then why are games like Everquest so popular? I know when I played Ultima online, I'd get my bellybutton kicked every other day by some super PK with too much time. But I never quit. It inspired me to get better so the victories were that much sweeter.

Why should a newbie be entitled to just hop in and fly the hot ride without earning it?

Even still, I'm giving them X perk points to use each tour to fly their hot little ride. All I'm asking is that they preserve them, fly smart, and they keep their planes.

Will this work? We'll never know, because as many have pointed out, it will never be implimented. HTC is working on AHII right now. Thats' the main concern. What will happen to the MA after AHII is anyones guess, but they've already said, aside from bug fixes, they are not working on the MA, or Aces High Classic, as they will call it. I think I read somwhere, that there will be no further development of AH Classic..but I could be wrong on that.

Sixpence · « **Reply #52 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:24:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
Why should a newbie be entitled to just hop in and fly the hot ride without earning it?
_____________________________ ____________________

Tempest, Spit14, 262, CHog, 163, are the hot rides, and they are perked.
_____________________________ _____________________
Even still, I'm giving them X perk points to use each tour to fly their hot little ride. All I'm asking is that they preserve them, fly smart, and they keep their planes.

Not a bad idea, but like I said, they have to keep the majority happy, so they will not perk the la7 and the Nik. I consider the spit5 a harder kill, I mean, do we perk that too?

muckmaw · « **Reply #53 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:27:08 PM »

I don't know the plane set that well, but I would say perk everything but the 10 planes with the lowest ENY or Highest ENY value. (whichever means thats considered by HTC to be weakest). I'm not sure how ENY values work, but you get my drift.

Karnak · « **Reply #54 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:50:31 PM »

Muckmaw,

Here's you're proposed list of non-perked planes:

C-47A: 60 ENY
C.202: 60 ENY
Spitfire Mk I: 60 ENY
Hurricane Mk I: 57 ENY
Bf109E-4: 55 ENY
B5N2: 50 ENY
Bf110C-4b: 50 ENY
D3A1: 50 ENY
Hurricane Mk IID: 50 ENY
Ju87D-3: 50 ENY

Mini D · « **Reply #55 on:** March 14, 2003, 03:56:46 PM »

It does not matter what people are flying when you are trying to kill them. It only matters how they are flying. No matter what plane you put them in... you will not change the MA.

You can engage 10 different P-51s in the MA and you will get 10 different types of fights. This is not AI with predictable reactions we are dealing with... its people making choices. If people are running, they will continue to do so no matter what the planeset. If people are HO'ing, they will continue to do so no matter what the planeset. Its behavior that drives this game, not performance.

I don't fly an F6F-5 nor a P-40 for the performance or the challenge. I fly them because I love those two planes. I've found both of them more than capable of holding their own on equal terms with most planes. The ones that they have trouble with have not been mentioned in this thread.

I've gone against G-10 pilots that insist on diving, running and climbing. I've also gone against G-10 pilots that have been at the bottom of a canyon fighting it out with my P-40 at 100feet... riding the walls and having a good ole time. The difference was not the plane.

MiniD

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #56 on:** March 14, 2003, 04:11:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Muckmaw,

Here's you're proposed list of non-perked planes:

C-47A: 60 ENY
C.202: 60 ENY
Spitfire Mk I: 60 ENY
Hurricane Mk I: 57 ENY
Bf109E-4: 55 ENY
B5N2: 50 ENY
Bf110C-4b: 50 ENY
D3A1: 50 ENY
Hurricane Mk IID: 50 ENY
Ju87D-3: 50 ENY

Show me how those planes not listed above effect the balance of game play (real concrete proof, not just whines like MANDOBLES) and I'll agree that they should be perked. Just because a plane flew in a certain period or is faster than another or a lot of people like to fly it, shouldn't be the reason why a plane is perked. Only time a plane should be perked is if it causes an unbalance in the gameplay.

ack-ack

lazs2 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 14, 2003, 04:22:48 PM »

bockko... I am the real lazs..thank u.. I get lucky once in a while... mostly people feel sorry for me tho because i am old and feeble.

muck... yeah.. I like to feel that I didn't start with a huge advantage simply by clicking on one plane type over another. The victory feels more like "my" victory than the planes...But.. It still wouldn't matter... most people are gonna fly the best advantage they can get.. the problem is quite simple... there is just such a huge gulf between the the best and worst that they shouldn't even be in the same arena or.... at least not in the same area. fact is... my fm2 does well at close fields where the late monsters are out of place.. we need some close and some far fields or more cv's or.... all of the above and..... an early war area in the arena. Heck.... I would fly late war monsters in the late war area.... I flew a tempest a few times this tour out of frustration and to chase down the sissies and show em how it feels.

deja... most forget that I flew the -1a allmost exclussivly last year.. I didn't fly it any different (I flew it poorly in other words) than I do the fm2 ... I flew it aggressivly as a turnfiter... er... "angles" fighter

karnak... take away all my perks and in one nite I will have enough for 20 fm2 sorties with your 'perk em all' confusing mess and.... I will never have to get back into a non perked plane.

If we give everyone a bunch of perks to start out it just assures me that I will face nothing but fast planes for the entire beggining of the tour... it makes it worse for me... I will still earn a toejamload of (to me) useless perks.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 14, 2003, 04:31:30 PM »

sixpence makes a good point... if yu perk everything and then give everyone a bunch of perks to start..... I will still fly the FM2 and be ticked off for the entire beggining of the tour...

the new guys will get their butts handed to em in their perk rides by other perk players and be unhappy..... unhappier still when they are stuck in all but useless ac for the rest (majority)of the tour!

The good players who are morally bankrupt will fly perk planes all tour (since they will have even more helpless victums stuck in useless planes) and.... I will slaughter spit ones and 202's flown by newbies in my fm2....

I will never find a good fite and the newbies will be unhappy 90-100% of the time... most will just log off after their perk points are over and cancel their accounts after a while.
lazs

eskimo2 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 14, 2003, 04:51:16 PM »

El Gay-7...?
Spit...?
N1K...?
P-51...?

I haven't seen any of these in over a week... or maybe a few weeks. Hmmm...?

Oh wait, I only fly in the CT.

Nevermind.

eskimo