Author Topic: Trinity curse (Read 5490 times)

Toad · « **Reply #90 on:** May 05, 2003, 07:51:10 PM »

I'm starting to have some thoughts about you too... but I don't do ad hominem.

So, let's see.... wanting the whole planeset to be usefully available to all players somehow conflicts with my sig block?

Seems to me your ideal situation limits the planeset. Which, of course, would be contrary to my sig block.

I want all the planes in the hangar to be useful. That isn't the situation on Trinity. It's not really a problem on the other maps. Think about that. You haven't addressed it so far.

And, consider this... if the "7 goons to up the fuel 25%", why isn't it a good idea on hangars? You know... hangar gets knocked down it takes 7 goons to make 25% of the planeset available, 7 more goons to get 50% available and so on.

Why isn't that a good "strat" idea? Why didn't HTC use the philosophy throughout the strat system?

The fuel/big map/early war plane problem is only on this map. That's what needs fixing, that's the point and that's what you continue to ignore.

As usual.

NoBaddy · « **Reply #91 on:** May 05, 2003, 10:25:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
I want all the planes in the hangar to be useful. That isn't the situation on Trinity. It's not really a problem on the other maps. Think about that. You haven't addressed it so far.

Toad...

Meybe he hasn't...but, I'm trying to

.

Seriously, I'm adding 6 fields to the 2 forward zones of each country (1 being a CV in each). Why just 18 fields? Because that puts the terrain to the hard coded field limit. Additionally, I'm changing a couple of gv fields per zone to medium airfields. This should actually bring the terrain closer to what I envisioned when I started it.

BTW, as it is now...Trinity has been taking only a little more time to reset than I expected. Two weeks was about what I wanted and the last time I talked to HT, the max time it had been up was just under 2 1/2 weeks. I am hoping that the closer airfields will bring it to 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. Guess what? I have the opposite view of most of the folks complaining about 'Infinity', I think the other terrains are too EASY to reset. Personally, I think 2 or 3 resets in less than 24 hours is too much. Different strokes for different folks

.

BGBMAW · « **Reply #92 on:** May 05, 2003, 10:45:13 PM »

I love Trinity map..anyone who says different needs to get a life..

I LOVE TRINITY!!!!

PS.. Beetlle is amoron who shows who he ignores..what a cuddlinghunk..are you in kindergarten?

Get a Life.... Get off my Jock and tell yo bich to coem here

Grimm · « **Reply #93 on:** May 05, 2003, 10:54:47 PM »

NB,

Good work on this map...

Its without a doubt in my opinion the best map we have.

I look forward to the changes.

Iv been following this and Im somewhere in between....

It has made me think a bit about the fuel porking thing.

Right now, after reading this, I think the fuel is too easy to destroy. It takes little to bring it down and alot to bring it back up.

Often when you do capture a base, the fuel is messed up and it takes alot of resupply for the Strat guys too. Normaly if its a well planned base capture, fuel doesnt need to be taken down.

Im thinking that maybe the Fuel cells should be designed a little differently. Perhaps they should be set inside concrete bunkers. This way they cant be straffed by aircraft very easily, since it would require coming straight down on them. Also it could sheild them from near hits. The best way would a direct bomb hit from directly above.

At the same time, Instead of each one taking down the feild by 25%, more should be added and take it down by 10%

Just a thought. I know its not perfect for everyone, but it might be a move toward a better solution...

NoBaddy · « **Reply #94 on:** May 05, 2003, 11:25:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grimm
Right now, after reading this, I think the fuel is too easy to destroy. It takes little to bring it down and alot to bring it back up.

Often when you do capture a base, the fuel is messed up and it takes alot of resupply for the Strat guys too. Normaly if its a well planned base capture, fuel doesnt need to be taken down.

Im thinking that maybe the Fuel cells should be designed a little differently. Perhaps they should be set inside concrete bunkers. This way they cant be straffed by aircraft very easily, since it would require coming straight down on them. Also it could sheild them from near hits. The best way would a direct bomb hit from directly above.

At the same time, Instead of each one taking down the feild by 25%, more should be added and take it down by 10%

Just a thought. I know its not perfect for everyone, but it might be a move toward a better solution...

Actually, redoing the fuel bunkers would be a lot harder than just lowering the number of supply runs to resupply a base. I'm thinking about 3 or 4 trips to bring it from 25% to 100% would be about right. I have thought for a while that HT went a bit overboard when everyone was complaining about how easy it was to resupply stuff. Seems a bit silly that it takes one guys and one bomb 10 minutes to reduce a field's fuel by 25%. Then it takes 7 guys 10 minutes each to rebuild it.

Toad · « **Reply #95 on:** May 05, 2003, 11:54:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by NoBaddy
BTW, as it is now...Trinity has been taking only a little more time to reset than I expected.

First of all, Thanks again!

Don't misunderstand. I really don't care WHICH map is in the rotation if the map combined with the current strat model doesn't unduly penalize a part of the planeset.

In this case, as I mentioned, the early war birds are hammered by fuel going down on a big, spread out map.

Fix that, and I'll play this map the same way I play the others.

I'll totally ignore the Generalissimo COLEOPTERA CHRYSOMELIDAE and just fly my slow old planes around shooting at other planes.

That's about all it takes to make me happy.

I think the 90 plane raids are boring, but I always try to avoid both ends of those.]

Thanks!

Toad · « **Reply #96 on:** May 05, 2003, 11:57:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Seems a bit silly that it takes one guys and one bomb 10 minutes to reduce a field's fuel by 25%. Then it takes 7 guys 10 minutes each to rebuild it.

THANK YOU! Sanity!

As I said, I don't care about resets or what map we're on..... heck, I played the one beta map for months having the time of my life.

Just give us a sane system that allows everybody to do their own thing.

beet1e · « **Reply #97 on:** May 06, 2003, 12:10:30 AM »

Hehe, Mr. Toad. FWIW I sort of agree that those no-skill fuel suicide fuel porkage flights are screwing things up. But I will never let you forget how you championed the cause for a rules free, laissez faire, no-holds-barred game, and pooh-poohed me at any suggestion of a more structured game. I had just come back from that Bridge course, remember? And you were full of it. But now, we have you clamouring for this change and that change. You're making it sound like you're for more choices, but really you want to lessen the impact of the gamey suicide dweebs. I agree, that would be a good thing. Maybe the suicide fuel porkers will give up, and we will have a er... more structured game. But don't forget what you said on 11-23-2002 at 10:56pm. I shall remind you of it from time to time. What goes around comes around, me old china.

Toad · « **Reply #98 on:** May 06, 2003, 12:18:58 AM »

Two words Beet1e: BS.

On THIS PARTICULAR MAP the way the fuel/strat is set is simply a mistake. It severely penalizes the short range planes which happens to be a signficant part of the planeset and about ALL of the early war set. It results in LESS choice for all players and almost NO choice for "early war" afficianados.

It's just a mistake and it looks like it'll be corrected now. Quite similar to a mistake in an FM or anything else.

NoBaddy sees it, so it doesn't matter if YOU do or not. The fix will clearly result in MORE CHOICE.

So, go ahead and claim victory as you fade away in defeat.

It won't be anything regular BBS readers haven't seen before.

Because it's now obvious that you've lost the point in this thread. See you next match.

Thanks again, NB!

beet1e · « **Reply #99 on:** May 06, 2003, 01:05:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Because it's now obvious that you've lost the point in this thread.

Errrm, no... This is Fariz's thread, and he opened it by saying

Quote

Afraid couple more trinity rotations and my squad will just stop to exist. People reject to fly this one. Really not good for strat players, at least with 32 people squad limmiter as it is now.

Note the following points about Fariz's post:

NO mention of fuel
NO mention of early war planes.
NO mention of goon/M3 resupply missions.
NO mention of making things nice for the air to air combat guys
Fariz was saying that the strat guys were the ones affected by Trinity. Well guess what? Last time I looked, I was a strat guy, and I wasn't complaining. Lazs was complaining, but he's not a strat guy!

Sounds like someone took the thread a little off topic! And it wasn't me. So, Mr. Toad, Suck on this flag for a while. Toodle-Pipperooni!

straffo · « **Reply #100 on:** May 06, 2003, 02:02:15 AM »

I smell lot of french words ...

BNM · « **Reply #101 on:** May 06, 2003, 02:43:35 AM »

Like to see each fuel tank take 2k bombs to kill. Also like to see 1 goon = 25% fuel. Like to see minimum on a field be 50%. WTG NB sounds great, can't wait to see it. Agree with Toad, Laz and Nopoop. Beet1e get a life...

beet1e · « **Reply #102 on:** May 06, 2003, 03:28:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BNM
Agree with Toad, Laz and Nopoop. Beet1e get a life...

ROFL! But of course. I mean, how else could it be?

All jolly yanks, sticking together...

Funny how the thread originator should say "Really not good for strat players", and yet the three people you're siding with have dominated the thread, but are amongst the most vociferous anti-strat dudes in the game. Did someone say something about losing the point of the thread?

Toad · « **Reply #103 on:** May 06, 2003, 07:36:15 AM »

That's it beet1e, duck and cover, throw sh t up in the air as you retreat claiming victory.

As I said, it's nothing we all haven't seen here before.

Take a look at your discussion with me here. That's what counts.

And what REALLY counts is that NB is making changes to Trinity that are going to make it the approximate strategic equal of the other maps rather than leaving it as the aberration in the set.

The fuel porking is going to be fixed. 50% fuel makes the whole planeset useable on any map. Excellent, MORE CHOICE. So one jabo guy knocking the fuel down to 25% will be fixed by one resupply pilot bringing it up to 50%. Balance. That was a major point in your diatribe vs my point of view. Looks like you clearly lost.

Airfields on Trinity are going to be closer together now that he's adding fields and converting GV bases to airfields. A prime idea in all of Laz's various posts. Laz wins!

We're getting another carrier for each country. A prime idea in all of Laz's various posts. Laz wins!

Sorry.. I didn't see anything you were advocating get any sort of endorsement at all. Too bad!

NOT.

I'm quite happy. These changes should make Trinity infinitely more appealing to a large number of players.

So toodle along... and keep your BS smoke generator at full speed. Although everyone here can see through it by now.

lazs2 · « **Reply #104 on:** May 06, 2003, 09:14:11 AM »

to be fair... if it wasn't obvious... I couldn't see it. some see the obvious and hide from it tho.

What beetle is really afraid of is that if people have choice they won't play his way. they will have fun instead. He can't win.. if he get's his way then people are unhappy and he hates to hear them complain all the time... If he doesn't get his way then people are happy and don't play his game enough... he is ignored by more people.

nb... if only the first layer of fields are close then won't that just mean that one country will lose all their close fields right away and be back in the same boat... the country with the largest numbers (the real AH strat) will steamroll the close fields of the low number country. still... maybe not... worth a try... better than nothing and, as you say, there are limits to number of fields...

More CV's is good.. Is there any limit? was a great CV fight at 13 last nite for an hour.

like toad... I like the infinity terrain... no problem with it stayin up all the time... could play it for months if there were something fun to do on it. My complaint is that it is extremely unfriendly to my style of playing. I don't believe that I am alone in playing the way I do either.
lazs