rshubert, come on over, let's talk..

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by nopoop
I think your right Muck, though I would think some sort of fix would be coming with the next version.

He seemed very interesting in a fix, even soliciting ideas from idiots like us!;)

I'n betting you're right, and it will be enclosed with the big update.

[nopoop]

Well I agree, Muck I'm an idiot.

A certain air of calm comes over you when you come to terms with it..

But I'm rarely cranky.

Simple and dumb. With that large body part I no longer use..

I still watch the films on occasion..

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Furious
Amazing how many of those things you could do offline.

It's just as amazing how many of that stuff you can do online...


Ack-Ack

[Apache]

Originally posted by TW9
It would cut the number of suicide attempt but people will adjust and find away to hang on just a lil bit longer till there bombs ignite.. Btw how would this work for a cv? If someone drop his/her bombs on a moving cv and theres a 30sec delay the cv wont be there when they ignite..

And if u dont dive into the cv and just swoop in like i do from 5k theres a very good chance one of ur drones will survive.. Thats why i think elimating the drones would be the best option here.. And i hope this isnt something thats being considered for jabos as well.. I mean if it actually did happen in ww2 which it did, nothing should be done about it..

I think HT should stop listening to people in these threads and realize theres alot more people that dont post in these threads that arent bothered with these aspects of the game..

Kinda funny how this argument finds its way in every thread.. Its like the AHBB Plague...

Read the thread my friend. HT started it. I've been flying Hitech's sims since the early 90's. Stupid he ain't.

[rshubert]

Samiam, perhaps you are right.  I don't think you are, but maybe I'm deluded.  I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

I think there's a strategic game that consists of move and countermove.  Maybe if you would play the game for a while my way, you would realize that it exists.  I agree that porking the frontline bases is a simplistic strategy.  But how about the strategic raid on the hq.  Coordinate that with a Jabo assault and you have tactics.  Decide to counter an enemy assault in one area with a raid in another to relieve the pressure, and you have strategy.

At least that's what my friends and I are doing.  What are you doing?  Running up your kill count in a mindless thumb-candy gut-reaction knee-jerk reflex kind of way.  A tiger can kill.  That doesn't make it smart.

That being said, I enjoy a good furball now and then.  Just got into one off C13, shot down 3 before they got me.  Two spittys and a niki.  Not bad, fighting against the Energy advantage.  Couldn't land them, though.  They got the carrier, eventually, even though it must have cost them 50 planes.  In my book, I lost.  But I had a ball.  Now I'm going back in to try to take some bases.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rshubert
At least that's what my friends and I are doing.  What are you doing?  Running up your kill count in a mindless thumb-candy gut-reaction knee-jerk reflex kind of way.  A tiger can kill.  That doesn't make it smart.

Furballing involves neither mindlessness nor "thumb-candy gut-reaction knee-jerk reflex" -- not if you're doing it right anyway.

Size up every target, every attacker, every defender.  Think ten moves ahead:

Kill this guy before you in the quickest way possible given his plane, your plane and your relative E states. Then thwart the BnZ attack of the guy who was out of range but who you know has arrived in the time it took you to kill the first enemy.  In the meantime, expect that those three climbing out 5k that way are now co-alt.  They're coming in three abreast, so what do you do?  Avoid the poor turners, engage the slowest, realize that the earlier BnZer has returned and both reacquire and dodge him.  Don't miss your shots, because doing so throws off the whole gameplan.

Not chess?  It's ten times the chess that "strat" in AH could ever hope to be.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Apache]

Originally posted by TW9
Dont recal saying ht was stupid.. I was just giving a statement of my opinion on the matter..

No, you said he should stop listening, indicating your opinion is more valid than his...the game developer.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Furious
People who don't like to dogfight, don't like to dogfight because they are not good at it.  To be good at it is very difficult.  Keeping track of 3-5 bogies as well as 3-5 friendlies in your head all the while fighting the bad guy right in front of you or right behind you can be quite frustrating.

I'm ranked at around 180 (fighter rank) at the time of writing. Not bad, considering I do a lot of other things in this game. Also when you consider that in Euro hours, you won't get the mass furballing numbers to be seen at US Prime Time. My point is that I have done this flying largely in organised groups with a view to field capture. I don't care for "manufactured" fights. Read my quote of Apache in my sig. - he is right on the money.

Furious also said:

But the folks that can't DF still want to feel as if they have some impact on the game, so they kill buildings and auger into fuel dumps and declare this "the chess match".

Well I think I can DF, up to a point. But Furious, again I must ask the question. Please answer it this time: If you don't want to see non-DFers having impact on the game, and if you don't want to see the "chess match", then given that you and your ilk of DFers are so great in number, why don't you simply move to the DA? You would never have to deal with the chess match guys ever again.

[Ack-Ack]

Franky, I don't see the problem in just shooting down the base attackers.  Who cares if you don't orgasm after the kill, a kill by any other name is still a kill.  Maybe, it's just me, who knows but I enjoy both sides of the game.  There is a thrill in coming in through a horde of defenders over a base, pickling my eggs and rockets and destroying whatever ground target(s) I engaged and then turning around and shooting down the defenders.  The way I see it, I get to enjoy both parts of the game.  I guess I do get to have my cake and eat it too, lucky me.

But I will agree with Apache that Pork 'N Auger runs are dweeby.  It was a dweeb tactic in AW too and I imagine it was in WB as well (except I don't really remember much whining about it in WB as I did in AW or do in AH).

Ack-Ack

[lazs2]

leviathn is correct... the furball takes 10 times the thinking that the simplistic strat model does..  and you gotta do it fast.. but..

Other that poking fun at the pompous generals... I don't really care what they do.. as ack ack points out... I will kill them just like I would kill anyone else.  

The real thing is.. the strat players are the ones who want to force people to be organized and play their way... "if people didn't waste time at tank town" or "mindless furballers fighting at a base when we needed help" or... "came all the way over to vultch and didn't even bring a bomb" etc..

Now contrast this with what I, and the furballers want... we don't want to modify the game so that people have to play our way... we want to make sure that there allways is a place (choice) to play our way... asking for some closer fields and bigger and more CV groups doesn't force strat players to do anything... their choices are not affected in the least.   Making bombs over 100lbs perked doesn't affect anyojne except the suicide jabo guys who.... nobody will ADMIT to likeing.

As for low numbers winning the war with organization and teamwork... Don't make me laugh... never in prime time... maybe when the arena is down to 100 guys in some early morning hours and one whole country is not even trying to "win" and another is fanatic about it... even then... a rare event.   No... when the arena is full the gameplay... strat... is written in stone..  the country with the numbers wins.   pretending to be part of that win or loss is naive..

The fact remains... the very best players in this game are the furballers.  they are also among the most "veteran"... everyone eventually learns that the fight is the thing in a 24/7 arena with no start or stop point.  

Maybe the new "mssun arena" will siphon off some of the worst of the gangbanging suicide strat building battlers.   In the mean time... I will continue to advocate a place to mix it up without it being too easily ruined or dictated by the building battlers.
lazs

[Grimm]

Originally posted by lazs2
As for low numbers winning the war with organization and teamwork... Don't make me laugh... never in prime time...  

heheheheee  I hope your laughin...  

Never is a pretty strong word.  

As I said before, Im in agreement with you about Numbers normaly dictating flow.   I just am pointing out "Never" isnt true either.  

Id have to do alot of digging to find the actual date, but it was roughly a year and a few months ago, during prime time with roughly 600 in the arena.   numbers were about  Rooks 30%,  Bishops 30% and Knights 40%.   Rooks took the day.  

So, Big deal...   it just started over.   lol  

So, outa every few hundred resets, my exception happens about once.       Still not "Never"

Thats my only beef with your comments,  please adjust that to "Almost Never"   lol


For the Record, if it wasnt for the Dogfight, there never would have been a MA to strat in.   AW, WB, AH and others all started by pitting a fighter against a fighter.   bombing and all came later with the good intention of stimulating meaningful combat.  

The Strat system still hasnt found good balance,  maybe it never will.   I guess Id have to with the guys that feel a lone porker can do too much damage.   The fuel issues do really hurt the planes with short legs (ie early war)

[Grimm]

Originally posted by lazs2
I will continue to advocate a place to mix it up without it being too easily ruined or dictated by the building battlers.
lazs

I always like the Arena with an Arena concept.  

 Most of us are basicly social people.  We like to fly with Friends and against our opponets.   The MA is the draw becasue thats where the most folks are.    

The Fighter Town concept was a good one.  To bad there isnt a spot in the very center of the arena with some special airfields.  No Strat at the feilds,  Local Radar always works,  They cant be captured and have no effect on resets.   No bombers available or GVs.  

The only time things would be messed up is when a big raid of fighters came in for a vulch fest or during arena reseting.  

Guys can dice it up there, and when there buddys arive,  you can still say hello on the radio,  maybe even split off to join in some dasardly plan to capture a feild.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
Now contrast this with what I, and the furballers want... we don't want to modify the game so that people have to play our way... we want to make sure that there allways is a place (choice) to play our way...

ROFL!

Nice wall, Lazs. But an answer to my question is not forthcoming. You say you want to make sure that there will always be a place for you furballers to play your way. And there is!  It's called the DA.

So why don't you all just go there?

[rshubert]

They were excellent examples of ACM.  They did not change my opinion.  

I particularly liked the F6F at 110 mph getting overshot by everybody and his brother.  You would think that about the third guy would get a clue.  Couldn't ANY of those guys shoot?  I see several passes that should have ended with the F6F in a crater.

The A20 film shows what happens when the attackers are so interested in getting a kill that they throw away all their advantages.  It also shows that there was absolutely no cooperation between the attackers.  I didn't film it, but I had a similar fight in an A20 a few weeks ago.   Shot down a spit and a 109, then got shot down.

It seems to me that the best tactic used was to allow the other guy to make mistakes.  Hmmm...

Have a nice day:)

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by rshubert
It seems to me that the best tactic used was to allow the other guy to make mistakes.  Hmmm...

ACM centers around capitalizing on the mistakes made by others.  You finally "get" it when you realize that it was your own fault you were shot down whether the fight was 1v1 or 50v1; at some point you made a mistake that led to your death.

Surely a chess master such as yourself understands that the key to success means misleading and trapping your opponent into making fatal mistakes.  If not, chess matches would always end in stalemates.  By the same token, if nobody ever made mistakes in ACM, if every move was met with the perfect neutralizing countermove, every duel would result in a deathless stalemate.

-- Todd/Leviathn