german planes performances??!!

[Hajo]

Also....remember as the war dragged on......the axis had more targets....and the Allies fewer.  1944 to 1945 most of the time
Allied Fighters rarely found an enemy to fight....LW only upped
to engage incoming Bombers. Even so...eventually fewer fighters from the LW upped even to intercept Allied Bombers, not because
a lack of aircraft.....because of lack of fuel and trained Pilots.

Hastily trained LW Pilots became .50 Cal fodder for the allied fighters and fighter bombers.  Experienced LW pilots were few
in number.  One of the keys to the allied air victory over Europe
and the Pacific was the training of Allied Pilots.  Experience was
not lost in a chute or in a downed fighter, but used to train fighter and bomber pilots.  Called thinking ahead, something the LW never did very well, nor the IJN.  Combat experience was lost with the Pilot, and not passed on.

[Rude]

Originally posted by AHGOD
Well if you go over the last few tours you will see that the D9 has the highest K/D among any non perked fighter.  Maybe it is the allied pilots wearing the tutus who should be wondering.

The only reason the D9 has that high K/D is because those who fly it tend to cherry pick rather than engage...not that anythiing is wrong with that of course.

I think Lazs refers to that style of flyin as sky accountanting....Women with Wings suits me better.

[Angus]

True. The Axis setup provided them with some aces with an incredible kill list, but however they ran out of competent pilots in the end.
BTW, there is a RAF ace that always seems to slip away from those lists, - namely "Pat" Pattle with 50 kills, - there of 15 in a Biplane!

[MetaTron]

I dont care what the furballing mentality says it takes nerves of steel to attack a formation of bombers. To do it right and use patience is very rare and you can see that in the main arena time after time. The guys that attack multiple formations demonstrate the most willingness to put themselves at risk to stop the enemy.

I would be interested in seeing how many survived this sort of mission on a regular basis in the real world. It doesnt take anything to be brave in a video game. In the real world you would have to be young, healthy, and under orders.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by wetrat
Fighter pilots? I don't think so..

Well, think again.  JG52 was documented as claiming air-to-air kills when it was strafing gliders on the ground.

There are those who question the German kill figures, which are way out of proportion to any other country's experience (Japanese, Russian, English, whatever).

- oldman

[Angus]

Oldman: I did a comparison between RAF losses and LW claims on the same front in the same frame of time. The LW claims were pretty accurate, - on some days up to 100%. However, many times a damaged RAF plane was claimed as destroyed with full verification and blessing of the LW, - RAF plane hower RTB with some holes to fill.
A rough estimation of the LW overclaims was about 10-20% which is about as good as it gets anywhere I guess.
However, the list of RAF losses was complete, while I may not have had all the claims of the other side, so were more data to be found, the error margin would be bigger.
Anyway, interesting stuff.

[BlauK]

Quite intresting that no-one has brought out any issues of tactics and training

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Rude
Axis flyers in this game just need to learn to fly.

Hehe, shame on ya Rude, rubbin' salt in a wound ain't nice, even if it is an imaginary wound.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by ghi
I have just found a List of the Flight Aces of WW2, and im wondering why most of the Allies have so few kills compared to the Axis??!!!

Look at your list of German pilots.  All of them were shot down numerous times during the war.

Generally speaking, allied pilots who were shot down didn't go home.

Russian pilots fared somewhat better than other allied pilots.  No doubt this was due to two things: 1) For a good fraction of the war, there were fighting over their homeland.  2) They were flying La7s.

curly

[Rude]

Originally posted by AKIron
Hehe, shame on ya Rude, rubbin' salt in a wound ain't nice, even if it is an imaginary wound.

I'm sorry....I keep forgetting how tenderhearted the LW is in AH:)

[Angus]

German 3rd ace Gunther Rall was shot down 8 times. With his 275 kills that makes 34 kills per "death" so to speak. Quite a few allied aces topped that.
However aces like Glunz or Marseille have a better record in that sence, - while others like Rudorffer had to bite the dust 18 times!!

I knew the Icelandic ace, Tony Jonsson some bit. He spent some 500 hrs + on combat missions, returning from WW2 with the humble score of 9 planes or so. However, most of those were deep over enemy territory, - just an engine failiure would have done it for him there. Missions were all sorts, Rhubarbs, Circuses, Scrambles, Night patrols, Bomber intercepts, Sweeps, Deep escorts (i.e. Berlin), and then the dirty work, dive bombing, Train/tankbusting and V-1/V-2 raids along with V-1 intercepts.
From his startup having a solo dogfight against 2x109's in his first sortie to doing cold and boring escorts to Berlin, things changed a lot. All the way from a hostile sky full of bandits into days and even weeks without even spotting an enemy plane.
In the course of events however, most of his buddies either got killed, captured or rotated.
Anyway, such would be the fate of so many an allied pilot. Fighting deep over enemy territory, doing very dangerous ground jobs, getting long rotations/rests, being moved out for instructions and then again, for the last part of the war, not finding anything to shoot at.

[Vulcan]

Early war the LW tactics were far superior, using techniques most modern pilots would recognise as standard practise thesedays. Whereas the RAF insisted on 'big wing' formation attacks, flying tight V formations, and the lufberry.

Germany had used Spain as a testing ground for its aircraft, tactics and getting its pilots some experience.

Then during the BoB the RAF improved somewhat, however the LW fighters still had the advantage of the LW bombers being the targets.

Then there was the eastern front slaughter against young inexperienced soviet pilots.

Then in the late war the LW fighters were fighting a purely defensive roll over home territory, in many cases they were shot down (as above). The LW also put high value on their pilots heads and from what I understand survivability bailing from a german aircraft was much higher (as can be seen with the LW implementations of early ejection seats, high speed chutes etc) than bailing from an allied plane.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Hajo
Also....remember as the war dragged on......the axis had more targets....and the Allies fewer.  1944 to 1945 most of the time
Allied Fighters rarely found an enemy to fight....LW only upped
to engage incoming Bombers. Even so...eventually fewer fighters from the LW upped even to intercept Allied Bombers, not because
a lack of aircraft.....because of lack of fuel and trained Pilots.

Hastily trained LW Pilots became .50 Cal fodder for the allied fighters and fighter bombers.  Experienced LW pilots were few
in number.  One of the keys to the allied air victory over Europe
and the Pacific was the training of Allied Pilots.  Experience was
not lost in a chute or in a downed fighter, but used to train fighter and bomber pilots.  Called thinking ahead, something the LW never did very well, nor the IJN.  Combat experience was lost with the Pilot, and not passed on.

Hajo, may I ask where you can gather this kind of reasoning?  That is absurd to be honest, the LW was called not only to fight the Bombers, but they had to support the infantry in a defensive roll being vectored in to the attacking Jabos.  Your other statements I can only say BS as well.  I have read countless entries of pilots going out on their first mission and getting a kill, and then failing to return on their second or third mission.  You might want to read the book Greenhearts, first in combat with the Dora 9 this would be a good starting point for you.  You will see the interaction between flight leaders and what they did to ensure the young pilots were brought up to speed (which was usually in a hostie environment on familiarity flights).  

Can't stand people that think they know everything and can summarize it all after reading WW2 in a nutshell.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Angus
German 3rd ace Gunther Rall was shot down 8 times. With his 275 kills that makes 34 kills per "death" so to speak. Quite a few allied aces topped that.
However aces like Glunz or Marseille have a better record in that sence, - while others like Rudorffer had to bite the dust 18 times!!

I knew the Icelandic ace, Tony Jonsson some bit. He spent some 500 hrs + on combat missions, returning from WW2 with the humble score of 9 planes or so. However, most of those were deep over enemy territory, - just an engine failiure would have done it for him there. Missions were all sorts, Rhubarbs, Circuses, Scrambles, Night patrols, Bomber intercepts, Sweeps, Deep escorts (i.e. Berlin), and then the dirty work, dive bombing, Train/tankbusting and V-1/V-2 raids along with V-1 intercepts.
From his startup having a solo dogfight against 2x109's in his first sortie to doing cold and boring escorts to Berlin, things changed a lot. All the way from a hostile sky full of bandits into days and even weeks without even spotting an enemy plane.
In the course of events however, most of his buddies either got killed, captured or rotated.
Anyway, such would be the fate of so many an allied pilot. Fighting deep over enemy territory, doing very dangerous ground jobs, getting long rotations/rests, being moved out for instructions and then again, for the last part of the war, not finding anything to shoot at.

Finnish pilot whose names escapes me had 70 or 80+ kills never had a hole put in his plane that is whatI call impressive considering he was flying outdated equipment until he was able to fly the 109.  Adolph Glunz is the only pilot to serve the entire war and never be shot down, and he flew 190's  Being transferred to JV44 in the closing months he was not able to fly the 262 can only imagine what he could have done if he had been transferred earlier to JG2.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Vulcan


Then during the BoB the RAF improved somewhat, however the LW fighters still had the advantage of the LW bombers being the targets.

This statement is incorrect, 109's having to fly at the same speed of the bombers, so they could not use the advantage of speed.  They were ordered to stay with the bombers which was a blunder.  Sending in the 110 at the same speed resulted in it being pulled after being mauled by British fighters.  The 110 did hold a slight advantage over the Hurricane but was not used the way it should.  All apples and oranges but still makes for good discussion.