Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dbh991 on December 30, 2012, 06:45:12 AM
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(Air-to-air Fighter combat issue) While in the Late War Main Arena(MA) this morning I engaged with a team mate that appeared to be having difficulty with a con. They were 1-on-1. I dispatched the con, at which point my team mate voiced (literally) "G@d D#mmed noob!" and continued to express his extreme displeasure with me. Well, I am confused because 1) I have had numerous occasions in the MA where this exact same thing has happened to me. I didn't mind. This is war and you help your team mate, right? Also, expect a 2nd con to join in if *you* are 1-on-1. No big deal, or so I thought. 2) If one wants to practice 1-on-1 dueling why not go to the Dueling Arena or the Training area?
So I am quite confused by this guy's extreme displeasure with my action.
Closely related issue: I have seen it posted somewhere, can't find it now, something to the effect that the Dueling Arena(DA) has "devolved into something bad where etiquette is not observed and it's just one big fur ball" or words to that effect. I don't agree, having spent a lot of time in the DA. I find the DA as it is to be an excellent way to quickly get in some quality air time to keep my situational awareness and gunnery skills sharp. I don't mind going 1 vs 2 or more(me being the 1). That happens in the MA and I appreciate the skills practice. Besides, if people want to use the DA for private 1-on-1 dogfights that is easy to do by just getting a reasonable distance away from the lake. (Or take it to the Training area.) Still on the topic of the DA: It appears there are times when everyone there agrees to just do 1-on-1 dogfights even on the lake. Sunday mornings are popular for this I gather. When one logs in to the DA then one is politely informed it is "1-on-1 time only" and to tune to a channel where everyone in the DA can communicate. Great, no problem. Clearly communicated. I did this a week ago and it was working just fine. I liked it as a nice change of pace. But after awhile, after clearly calling out my intention to engage 1v1 a specific aircraft, I was shot down from behind by someone else. He is an "old hand" at Aces High and far more experienced than I. He will remain nameless in this post. I asked him why he did that and his reply was a glib "I felt like it". :rolleyes:
So. Back to the subject of this post. I am now thoroughly confused over proper "etiquette" in both the MA and the DA. I have no desire to make others angry. But it seems we are not using common sense and playing by the same rules. I have competed in various activities all my life and hold the concept of "sportsmanship" very highly and would rather lose using proper sportsmanship than win by violating the same. But it is not possible to maintain sportsmanship when we aren't all playing by the same rules of conduct, in my opinion.
Sorry for what appears to be a bit of a rant, and also sorry if this has been covered before, but I really felt the need to express my frustration and try to get some guidance from those more knowledgeable than me. I *want* to play by the rules and practice good sportsmanship. I just don't know what the rules are. Do I need to call out "Mother May I, Please is it OK if I pull the trigger now?" each time I fly in any arena? :confused:
-Doug
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You're likely going to get a several different opinions on this, however what it's worth my thoughts are this.
If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in. Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.
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MA is simple.
Fur ball = all fair game.
1v1 or 2v2 a few K clear of every other fight and not critical to save/take base.... Ask on vox if they want help. If you get no response count that as a yes, otherwise respect that players answer.
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-DA or MA, do us a favour and ask before you jump in. Nothings worse when someone is looking for a good fight then when it finally happens, they get interrupted.
-the quality of the DA furball lake engagements is very low. Usually zeeks vs tempests, spiced with 4hogs, its really hard to find a fight what lasts more than 2-3 turns without getting picked, rope-a-doped, etc.
-MA is not for practicing 1v1s, still, you can show your respect towards others by trying to give them a fun, quality fight, when there is a chance given.
I am disillusioned about it at all, still, consider my words.
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You're likely going to get a several different opinions on this, however what it's worth my thoughts are this.
If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in. Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.
That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply. Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in. So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.
-Doug
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MA is simple.
Fur ball = all fair game.
1v1 or 2v2 a few K clear of every other fight and not critical to save/take base.... Ask on vox if they want help. If you get no response count that as a yes, otherwise respect that players answer.
Please see my reply to Soulyss.
Also, considering realism in the MA. Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?
-Doug
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That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply. Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in. So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.
-Doug
That's probably true unfortunately, I look at it this way though. The only person I can control is me. I can try my best to either be what I hope is a positive influence on the game or the community or a negative one regardless of what other people are doing.
Is that to say I haven't jumped a 1v1? Probably not, I can't think of specific case off the top of my head but I'm sure it's happened. I do try to ask when I see a distinct 1v1 happening though.
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Please see my reply to Soulyss.
Also, considering realism in the MA. Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?
-Doug
It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.
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It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.
I recall reading a anecdote from the 475th unit history where Thomas McGuire chewed out someone on radio for shooting down "his" target. Either way IMHO it doesn't matter, there is a huge difference in decision making between war and a video game.
:)
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1-this is not "war" war is no fun
2-there are no "rules"
3-who cares what others do in a game...all that you can control is yourself
4-if someone else does something does that make it "OK"?
me personally I wont jump in a 1vs1...unless the guy is asking for help...even then sometimes depending on the person I wont jump in....yet all the time I get guys jumping in on my 1vs1...when that happens I just break off and let the con deal with that new threat.....
I see lots of people vulching still don't make me want to vulch....
so my advice is play the game the way you want....just remember..... how you play is how you will be known.
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It would shock me if there were not a few hotshot aces in WWII who did not call out aircraft that they wanted for their own.
That reminds me of an episode of Baa Baa Black Sheep where the hot-shot P-38 ace told his wing man to stay away so he could get the kill. The ace died. Of course that was just a TV show story. But the point remains. What are are we really trying to do in the MA? I appreciate help any time I get it. No permission required. I can always go to the training area or find an away-from-lake spot in the DA if I want privacy for practice or ego or whatever.
-Doug
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I *want* to play by the rules and practice good sportsmanship. I just don't know what the rules are. Do I need to call out "Mother May I, Please is it OK if I pull the trigger now?" each time I fly in any arena? :confused:
-Doug
There are no rules by HTC other than those of how to behave. Special events do have rules, but that's another thing.
During these years playing AH I've learned that there are unwritten rules inheriting from older flying sims than AH. People who have played those games know them and would like live by the tradition. Underaged players of today might not even have been born when the "rules" were vaguely agreed by the early pioneers of online cartoon piloting. Today the rules - or how someone interprets them - only pop up in rants, either here on the bbs or in-game on 200 or pm'd. :salute
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That sounds reasonable and thank you for the reply. Problem is no one contacts *me* before jumping in. So that would be a one-way-street in my experience.
-Doug
As my Mother use to say, "If they jumped off a bridge, would you?". In other words, if they play with out class and respect should you?, it's your choice, but I try to choose the class/respect side of game play.
Please see my reply to Soulyss.
Also, considering realism in the MA. Is this how WWII fighter pilots behaved?
-Doug
Aces High is a game. The only thing it has in common with WWII is we fly toys modeled like the equipment used in WWII. That being said, in a game your looking to have fun. If fun is finally finding a good 1 on 1 fight and someone dives in a ends it by picking one of you it is no longer fun. Ask before you pick.
That reminds me of an episode of Baa Baa Black Sheep where the hot-shot P-38 ace told his wing man to stay away so he could get the kill. The ace died. Of course that was just a TV show story. But the point remains. What are are we really trying to do in the MA? I appreciate help any time I get it. No permission required. I can always go to the training area or find an away-from-lake spot in the DA if I want privacy for practice or ego or whatever.
-Doug
Like TV, no body dies here. If a guy wants to go out and fight alone it's not a big deal. While I like flying with outs, more often than not very few of my squadies fly at the time I do and I end up flying alone.
When I go into the DA (furball lake) I fully expect to be picked, or have my fight ruined by guys "stealing" my kills as I have never seen any class in there. Of course I expect the same in the MAs as well. I prefer the MAs because a DA fight is a different type of fight. DA fights are often low fuel, uber monster planes dashing around for quick kills. The Mas have other considerations involved, wider variety of planes, and fuel/E conditions. Opening merges are different as you don't know what the "agenda" is for the other guy, is he on a mission? is he hunting? does he want a good fight? <---- this is the guy I spend my time looking for.
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Those of us who try to call our 1v1s in the DA usually accept that eventually the situation will devolve into anarchy. That's when I usually leave, because along with the furball comes the arguments and flaming. Take a win with honor and a loss with grace. I also concur with Debrody, that when you do run into a good hands sweating, neck aching 1v1, it's really infuriating to have it interrupted. I always try to call off a teammate when I can.
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I ask before jumping in if it is a 1v1 or 2v2.
If it is a big furball melee it is fair game.
I can't control what others do so I don't stress about it. All we have online is our reputation and that is solely based on how we behave and what we say, both of which we have complete control of.
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kill or be killed.
I hope he burned all the way down. - Mick Mannock.
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I do not frequent the DA but in the MA I usually position myself to intercept any bandit. If there is a 1v1 going on I will ask if they want help. If they don't answer and the fight is not a threat I will go on by. If They do not answer and I feel the bandit might cause me trouble later (they are at medium or high altitude or are a particularly high end aircraft) I will position myself to engage but stand by. Some folks do not have mics (drives me nuts) and want help but cannot type while in a knife fight.
I also run into problems when I try to help a friendly asking for assistance and give them directions to position the bandit for a strike but they do something silly like jerk 180 degrees in the other direction. Usually this is followed by them getting shot down as I cannot make the turn and engage fast enough in the ride I am in.
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Interesting how Mick Mannock died.
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live by the sword and die by it.
No whining that way ;)
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Just about anything goes in the MA. If you want to be nice you can ask before jumping into a one-on-one but it's not a requirement. I occasionally have people ask if I want help in a one-on-one. Generally I don't answer or I tell them to do what they want (it is the MA afterall). Ocasionally I'll call them off. Despite that I do sometimes get upset when a great one-on-one is taken away by a second pilot. On the other hand I rarely ask myself before jumping in (it is the MA afterall).
In the DA, furball lake anything goes. Away from furball lake it's one-on-one's or structured engagements. If people are trying to fly one-on-one's at furball lake they need to take it to the side fields.
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Expect everything in the MA.
Build your own etiquette.
Do you feel satisfied killing a smoking enemy making its final on the runway? Does your ego grow chasing one fiter one whole sector and not attacking him until he is flying at 110 mph gears down trying to land? Go for it. Different food will breed different kind of egos. It's up to you while you are building your own etiquette.
When you have flown here for a long time, you can read enemy's minds and see what kind of food feeds their egos. Different egos will result in different etiquettes.
Don't get too serious what other people p.m. to you. Bunch of people whine about attitudes which they'll do theirselves later on.
I've realized no matter how you kill people with good etiquette, they wont say a word to you. It's the people who (after you killed them) whine, the ones who have less etiquette.
I'd try to find your own style and fun of the game, and don let yourself be influenced by what others say.
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Just about anything goes in the MA. If you want to be nice you can ask before jumping into a one-on-one but it's not a requirement. I occasionally have people ask if I want help in a one-on-one. Generally I don't answer or I tell them to do what they want (it is the MA afterall). Ocasionally I'll call them off. Despite that I do sometimes get upset when a great one-on-one is taken away by a second pilot. On the other hand I rarely ask myself before jumping in (it is the MA afterall).
Yes. That seems reasonable and do-able when dealing with a team mate. But when I'm in an interesting 1-on-1 with a con and then one or more of *his* team mates enters, well no one asked me how I liked that. They just do it and then I deal with it.
Maybe this is a bit like taking head on shots. I have learned to never try it (not worth the risk and really not much fun or skill involved), and I have also learned how to avoid getting hit when a con tries to head-on shoot me. I do not get upset when someone tries to head-on me, or turn my 1-on-1 into a 2-on-1 without asking permission. I just deal with the situation as it develops.
In the DA, furball lake anything goes. Away from furball lake it's one-on-one's or structured engagements. If people are trying to fly one-on-one's at furball lake they need to take it to the side fields.
Agree 100%! Such a simple solution and in my observation this is widely respected.
-Doug
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As long as you conduct business with the highest regard for your enemy and fellow pilots' worry not what they say. The animosity in the virtural sky will allow the worst to shine in some, and the best in others. Maintain your morals and like water off a DUX, let everything roll off your shoulders.
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Asking before jumping in a 1v1 is good.
Asking to be left alone if you are in a 1v1 you want to stay that way is good.
Expecting either to happen or be honored in a furball consistently is unrealistic in the MA.
Getting upset about anything that happens in a video game is silly.
When flying against bigger numbers in a furball, generally its accepted that the idea is to clean out as many as possible to even it up. Still nice to ask, but often too busy to expect that to happen.
Everyone in the game has their own set of "rules" and there are too many versions to keep track of. The guy that never gangs might be fine spawn camping. The guy that picks a lot may never want help when he ends up turning in a 1v1, but might be HO'er at every chance. The guy that gangs, picks, HOs, bomb****s, camps, runs, stick stirs, and vulches is often the guy that complains about it the most.
One guy might have fun killing radar and ords, then running home unscathed to continue on some base taking plan. The next guy wants to dive into a sea of red and see how long he lasts. Fly and let fly.
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live by the sword and die by it.
No whining that way ;)
you know whats my opinion.
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This business of treating 1v1's as something you shouldn't "interrupt" except without permission is strange to me.
If you want to be in a 1v1, why are you in the MA? For that matter, why are you even playing a MMOG and paying out money per month for the privilege of doing so? There are boxed sims out there which have on-line play enabled where you don't have to play a subscription fee to play.
The reason I play on-line is because of the fact that the situation you're in is always fluid and can evolve.
A 1v1 that you know with an absolutely certainty will STAY a 1v1 is somewhat sterile and uninteresting except as a classroom exercise.
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This business of treating 1v1's as something you shouldn't "interrupt" except without permission is strange to me.
If you want to be in a 1v1, why are you in the MA? For that matter, why are you even playing a MMOG and paying out money per month for the privilege of doing so? There are boxed sims out there which have on-line play enabled where you don't have to play a subscription fee to play.
The reason I play on-line is because of the fact that the situation you're in is always fluid and can evolve.
A 1v1 that you know with an absolutely certainty will STAY a 1v1 is somewhat sterile and uninteresting except as a classroom exercise.
Outstanding point and extremely well put! I believe this was my gut feeling from the get go: that is when I entered the 1v1 "uninvited", this morning. The curse-you reaction was a surprise to me.
Thank you for putting into words what I could not. If he wants privacy while flying he should do as you say, or take it to the DA or training arenas. My opinion.
-Doug
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Outstanding point and extremely well put! I believe this was my gut feeling from the get go: that is when I entered the 1v1 "uninvited", this morning. The curse-you reaction was a surprise to me.
Thank you for putting into words what I could not. If he wants privacy while flying he should do as you say, or take it to the DA or training arenas. My opinion.
-Doug
OH I see you weren't looking for an answer per-say, you were looking for validation for picking an easy kill. Next time just ask the real question and we won't need all these post and opinions :rolleyes:
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Alls fair in the MA............
do as you would expect to be done unto...........
dont expect others to do as you do............
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(Air-to-air Fighter combat issue) While in the Late War Main Arena(MA) this morning I engaged with a team mate that appeared to be having difficulty with a con. They were 1-on-1. I dispatched the con, at which point my team mate voiced (literally) "G@d D#mmed noob!" and continued to express his extreme displeasure with me. Well, I am confused because 1) I have had numerous occasions in the MA where this exact same thing has happened to me. I didn't mind. This is war and you help your team mate, right? Also, expect a 2nd con to join in if *you* are 1-on-1. No big deal, or so I thought. 2) If one wants to practice 1-on-1 dueling why not go to the Dueling Arena or the Training area?
So I am quite confused by this guy's extreme displeasure with my action.
Closely related issue: I have seen it posted somewhere, can't find it now, something to the effect that the Dueling Arena(DA) has "devolved into something bad where etiquette is not observed and it's just one big fur ball" or words to that effect. I don't agree, having spent a lot of time in the DA. I find the DA as it is to be an excellent way to quickly get in some quality air time to keep my situational awareness and gunnery skills sharp. I don't mind going 1 vs 2 or more(me being the 1). That happens in the MA and I appreciate the skills practice. Besides, if people want to use the DA for private 1-on-1 dogfights that is easy to do by just getting a reasonable distance away from the lake. (Or take it to the Training area.) Still on the topic of the DA: It appears there are times when everyone there agrees to just do 1-on-1 dogfights even on the lake. Sunday mornings are popular for this I gather. When one logs in to the DA then one is politely informed it is "1-on-1 time only" and to tune to a channel where everyone in the DA can communicate. Great, no problem. Clearly communicated. I did this a week ago and it was working just fine. I liked it as a nice change of pace. But after awhile, after clearly calling out my intention to engage 1v1 a specific aircraft, I was shot down from behind by someone else. He is an "old hand" at Aces High and far more experienced than I. He will remain nameless in this post. I asked him why he did that and his reply was a glib "I felt like it". :rolleyes:
So. Back to the subject of this post. I am now thoroughly confused over proper "etiquette" in both the MA and the DA. I have no desire to make others angry. But it seems we are not using common sense and playing by the same rules. I have competed in various activities all my life and hold the concept of "sportsmanship" very highly and would rather lose using proper sportsmanship than win by violating the same. But it is not possible to maintain sportsmanship when we aren't all playing by the same rules of conduct, in my opinion.
Sorry for what appears to be a bit of a rant, and also sorry if this has been covered before, but I really felt the need to express my frustration and try to get some guidance from those more knowledgeable than me. I *want* to play by the rules and practice good sportsmanship. I just don't know what the rules are. Do I need to call out "Mother May I, Please is it OK if I pull the trigger now?" each time I fly in any arena? :confused:
-Doug
Unless its a furball, or base defense, I always asked.
Now regardless of if you should expect a 1v1 in the MA, its still polite to respect people enjoying a good fight. Base taking is only an engine to drive combat, no more, no less. Combat is the main focus of the game, and should be respected
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This business of treating 1v1's as something you shouldn't "interrupt" except without permission is strange to me.
If you want to be in a 1v1, why are you in the MA? For that matter, why are you even playing a MMOG and paying out money per month for the privilege of doing so? There are boxed sims out there which have on-line play enabled where you don't have to play a subscription fee to play.
The reason I play on-line is because of the fact that the situation you're in is always fluid and can evolve.
A 1v1 that you know with an absolutely certainty will STAY a 1v1 is somewhat sterile and uninteresting except as a classroom exercise.
It really is dependent on the situation.... have you have a really good 1v1..1v2 at all??? if you happen upon a fight in progress.... especially if you weren't even in icon range what does it hurt to ask... sometimes you will run into a person who wants to fight and you will fight from 10k all the way to the weeeds ... a hand aching fight where in the end it doesn't matter if you win or lose as you have just had a winning experience..
does this mean at a base that is temming with red and green....no.....it means if there is only two guys having a fight ask... I will usually ask others who come into icon range to stay out if I am in a situation like this and if I am not going to be heeded I will do as Ink says/does and pull off... it is something that has changed rather drastically in my opinion... and will hopefully die out in a few years as i have noticed that the newer generation is starting to show a little respect again.. but we have a whole generation of meh to deal with first..... yes this is a MMO .. but it has been around longer than many(in some form or other) other gang raid type play MMO's which have been made... this is where the...Oh you play this MMO and expect 1V1...and complain about ganging discussions come from ...... cause what some have been bought up on(gaming) is vastly different from what many who play here have been bought up on
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When debrody is on you should ask on 200 before killing anyone :D
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Depends on where the 1v1 is. If there are two guys fighting off alone I'll ask if the friendly wants help and respect what he says. If they are in the middle of a furball its fair game.
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You're likely going to get a several different opinions on this, however what it's worth my thoughts are this.
If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in. Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.
:aok
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OH I see you weren't looking for an answer per-say, you were looking for validation for picking an easy kill.
No, not at all. I was genuinely confused. I sought these responses and have greatly valued them all. I thank all who have posted including you. These responses have allowed me to form my ultimate opinion, not reached until a short while ago. Don't read too much into my "initial gut feeling" comment. Though if my initial gut feeling had been "this is wrong" then I wouldn't have entered the 1v1 to begin with. My "teammate" appeared to be having trouble. Not wanting one of "my side" to get killed I stepped in. I now believe his anger towards me was a result of his inability to get the kill on his own. His ego problem is not my problem.
-Doug
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Does it hurt to ask? No. Does every pilot in this game have a convenient way to reply to you if they do want help and don't want to die? I have been asked in such a way MANY times and on occasion, for whatever reason, I wasn't ready to go out the way the guy trying to kill me had planned. BUT I couldn't answer.
Maybe I already had parts missing from a prior engagement and the bad guy was knowingly or not taking advantage of that. I certainly couldn't type in a fight and didn't always use a mic.
To the OP:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
You will never change the behavior they are suggesting you yourself refrain from. The arenas were created with DISTINCT objectives in mind, one for unrestricted combat no quarter asked, none granted. The other has rules that can have you moderated in some way if you fail to heed warnings of a private group.
I myself loved a great 1v1, but if I am in the MA and I get jumped in a fight, it's MY situational awareness that has failed. If you take away the possibility that I might get jumped in fight, you are ruining half the fun and challenge of the game.
The guys who want the honor system in the game want you to play the game by their rules because it's too inconvenient to find some place private to have their fun. OR nobody else really wants a 1v1 which is why they are forced to play in your sandbox and now want to tell you how to play your game. I understand their frustration completely, I have been there done that. Bored with the horde and no one to speak of in the DA.
I guarantee that one day you will pass one of those private fights and the winner will be the one who enters an already unbalanced fight and shoots you down. He will do so because he doesn't play by your rule or his perception was that it was unbalanced to your advantage, when the reality was, it was not.
Then there will be an argument about who's perception is right and you will once again be chasing your tail in circles just as you are now, trying to resolve an issue that is a matter of perception.
I hate getting jumped as much as the next guy, but I have had unforgettable fights where it was me against 2,3, 4 or more. And everyone of the guys who say they are all about the fight will probably have a story about how they won a fight against multiple bad guys, yet here they are telling you that you shouldn't have done that. :rolleyes:
The truth is, they are telling you they don't like it when you kill them if they are in a 1v1 already. If they win, they make youtube videos of it.
If someone politely ASKS me to stay out of a fight I will do so, but they're daft if they think I am going to leave every "seemingly private" fight in the MA when it's not what the arena is for, no one has communicated it's a private fight and there is even the slightest possibility that the winner is the straw that breaks the camels back when he enters my fight.
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You're likely going to get a several different opinions on this, however what it's worth my thoughts are this.
If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in. Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.
This.
If he doesnt respond. which is sometimes the case. Then its your call
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No, not at all. I was genuinely confused. I sought these responses and have greatly valued them all. I thank all who have posted including you. These responses have allowed me to form my ultimate opinion, not reached until a short while ago. Don't read too much into my "initial gut feeling" comment. Though if my initial gut feeling had been "this is wrong" then I wouldn't have entered the 1v1 to begin with. My "teammate" appeared to be having trouble. Not wanting one of "my side" to get killed I stepped in. I now believe his anger towards me was a result of his inability to get the kill on his own. His ego problem is not my problem.
-Doug
This is probably pretty wrong and he probably would've rather died than had someone ruin the fight for him.
When you get to a certain point getting kills isn't really a thrill and dieing really isn't a big deal. I would never assume someone is mad just because they died, unless they acted in a way that clearly demonstrates that.
The issue that you're having is kind of a disconnect I think. No one goes to the MA to find a 1v1. It's a pretty unrealistic expectation to have and the game would not be at all fun if you expected to find that on a regular basis.
However, by a serendipitous event, you occasionally find yourself alone with an enemy pilot of a similar skill level to you in the MA. It's not about seeking it, but it does happen. When you find this person and you engage them, and several minutes later you're still riding the stall, black out, flipping your plane around for that guns solution and he's doing the same... it's fun, and above that, you start to develop a certain respect for your opponent. Even if that sounds ridiculous, you can certainly appreciate fighting another skilled pilot man on man in the MA.
So, when, completely unexpectedly, you find yourself in this dogfight, and 7 minutes later you're still having that fight that makes your week, winning or losing, and some dork in a P51 blasts through at 400 mph and ends it in 5 seconds without asking it's pretty frustrating. Even if someone saves your bellybutton it can be, because at that point you really start to feel like your opponent deserves that kill.
Breaking up a 1v1 in a furball isn't a big deal, but when you see an isolated 1v1 you should really consider that those two might be having some fun at it and there may be several minutes of fun left. Lets face it, there's a lot of climbing and transit for this game for not a whole lot of action a lot of the time, so every moment of excitement is precious, and there are few things more exhilarating in this game (to a lot of people at least) than a spontaneous, hard fought 1v1.
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Alls fair in the MA............
do as you would expect to be done unto...........
dont expect others to do as you do............
This is about all we can ask. The expectation that others think like you do is what frustrates so many in this game... and in life in general.
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It's always nice to ask.
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So, when, completely unexpectedly, you find yourself in this dogfight, and 7 minutes later you're still having that fight that makes your week, winning or losing, and some dork in a P51 blasts through at 400 mph and ends it in 5 seconds without asking it's pretty frustrating. Even if someone saves your bellybutton it can be, because at that point you really start to feel like your opponent deserves that kill.
Breaking up a 1v1 in a furball isn't a big deal, but when you see an isolated 1v1 you should really consider that those two might be having some fun at it and there may be several minutes of fun left. Lets face it, there's a lot of climbing and transit for this game for not a whole lot of action a lot of the time, so every moment of excitement is precious, and there are few things more exhilarating in this game (to a lot of people at least) than a spontaneous, hard fought 1v1.
:aok
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No, not at all. I was genuinely confused. I sought these responses and have greatly valued them all. I thank all who have posted including you. These responses have allowed me to form my ultimate opinion, not reached until a short while ago. Don't read too much into my "initial gut feeling" comment. Though if my initial gut feeling had been "this is wrong" then I wouldn't have entered the 1v1 to begin with. My "teammate" appeared to be having trouble. Not wanting one of "my side" to get killed I stepped in. I now believe his anger towards me was a result of his inability to get the kill on his own. His ego problem is not my problem.
-Doug
This is either arrogant or you're not understanding something very basic to many players. Its the FIGHT that is sought out, and how it ends is utterly, completely, and entirely irrelevant to how much fun you had.
When you find an enemy who pushes you to your limits, and a bit beyond, but you can't quite shoot down, you'll understand. I firmly believe the best fights are the ones that start unexpectedly, and end with both of you slink off hoping both that you will never see each other again, and that he's the next fighter you merge with
It sounds like winning the fights, landing kills, and and winning the war is more important to you than the quality of fights you're having. That isn't true for a considerable group in Aces High, and you need to adjust your thinking to account for that.
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I try to watch which way the tracers are going. Red to green I try to help. Green to red, then I watch unless it is in a furbal or I think I have a better E advantage to catch a red.
Interesting too I heard some tank guys complaining about the airplanes interfering with their tank battle albeit I have had good gaming action working with most tank people.
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This is probably pretty wrong and he probably would've rather died than had someone ruin the fight for him.
When you get to a certain point getting kills isn't really a thrill and dieing really isn't a big deal. I would never assume someone is mad just because they died, unless they acted in a way that clearly demonstrates that.
The issue that you're having is kind of a disconnect I think. No one goes to the MA to find a 1v1. It's a pretty unrealistic expectation to have and the game would not be at all fun if you expected to find that on a regular basis.
However, by a serendipitous event, you occasionally find yourself alone with an enemy pilot of a similar skill level to you in the MA. It's not about seeking it, but it does happen. When you find this person and you engage them, and several minutes later you're still riding the stall, black out, flipping your plane around for that guns solution and he's doing the same... it's fun, and above that, you start to develop a certain respect for your opponent. Even if that sounds ridiculous, you can certainly appreciate fighting another skilled pilot man on man in the MA.
So, when, completely unexpectedly, you find yourself in this dogfight, and 7 minutes later you're still having that fight that makes your week, winning or losing, and some dork in a P51 blasts through at 400 mph and ends it in 5 seconds without asking it's pretty frustrating. Even if someone saves your bellybutton it can be, because at that point you really start to feel like your opponent deserves that kill.
Breaking up a 1v1 in a furball isn't a big deal, but when you see an isolated 1v1 you should really consider that those two might be having some fun at it and there may be several minutes of fun left. Lets face it, there's a lot of climbing and transit for this game for not a whole lot of action a lot of the time, so every moment of excitement is precious, and there are few things more exhilarating in this game (to a lot of people at least) than a spontaneous, hard fought 1v1.
This is either arrogant or you're not understanding something very basic to many players. Its the FIGHT that is sought out, and how it ends is utterly, completely, and entirely irrelevant to how much fun you had.
When you find an enemy who pushes you to your limits, and a bit beyond, but you can't quite shoot down, you'll understand. I firmly believe the best fights are the ones that start unexpectedly, and end with both of you slink off hoping both that you will never see each other again, and that he's the next fighter you merge with
It sounds like winning the fights, landing kills, and and winning the war is more important to you than the quality of fights you're having. That isn't true for a considerable group in Aces High, and you need to adjust your thinking to account for that.
both responses are dead on :salute
to the OP my ingame name is JETSOM if ever you see me on and fighting...don't bother to ask if I want "help" I DONT nor will I ever.......GASP even if my cartoon dies :O
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In the mains, you kill them where you find them. No quarter given. No apologies required. Next time someone pipes up with a rant like that, report them.
Mind you, I spend more time pushing out towards the enemy than hanging out in large friendly groups of green planes, so it is lot easier to find multiple bad guys with no one engaging them. Sometimes when you are really lucky you can have ten or more guys that want to kill you all to yourself! Go to the largest red dar you can find and this will never happen to you again.
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In the mains, you kill them where you find them. No quarter given. No apologies required. Next time someone pipes up with a rant like that, report them.
:bhead
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In the many occasions when I was in a MA 1v1 and the *con's* team mate jumped in, no one asked me if it was "OK". I just dealt with it. No complaining. Certainly no swearing.
Same deal when a team mate jumps in. Many times this has happened. Not once have I complained. Some seem to think I should have. I didn't and I won't though. Often as not when my team mate jumped in it enabled *me* to get the kill. Especially when my ride was inferior to the con's. I appreciated the help. But if my team mate got the kill then great. I am a team player.
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In the mains, you kill them where you find them. No quarter given. No apologies required. Next time someone pipes up with a rant like that, report them.
In the mains, you kill them where you find them. No quarter given. No apologies required. Next time someone pipes up with a rant like that, report them.
Mind you, I spend more time pushing out towards the enemy than hanging out in large friendly groups of green planes, so it is lot easier to find multiple bad guys with no one engaging them. Sometimes when you are really lucky you can have ten or more guys that want to kill you all to yourself! Go to the largest red dar you can find and this will never happen to you again.
Everyone whines about being taken out of context in here then turns around and stabs the next poster in the back visa a choice of omitting context.
Shame on you.
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I am a team player.
It's easy then.... respect your team mate enough to ask him if he needs help first! :aok
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When debrody is on you should ask on 200 before killing anyone :D
u talkin to me? u talkin to MEH?!?!? no way, pu*k!!! re spect, walk
:lol
happy new year Nuke! :cheers:
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In the many occasions when I was in a MA 1v1 and the *con's* team mate jumped in, no one asked me if it was "OK". I just dealt with it. No complaining. Certainly no swearing.
Same deal when a team mate jumps in. Many times this has happened. Not once have I complained. Some seem to think I should have. I didn't and I won't though. Often as not when my team mate jumped in it enabled *me* to get the kill. Especially when my ride was inferior to the con's. I appreciated the help. But if my team mate got the kill then great. I am a team player.
You asked about etiquette, but it seems more like you'd just like explain to everyone why you were in the right
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:huh :huh :huh Coming to help! let them say Yes or No! :neener: :neener: :banana: :banana: :neener: :neener: :banana: :banana: :bhead :bhead
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:huh Man I'm sure glad I don't fly in LW, you people don't know what you want. :bolt:
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This is probably pretty wrong and he probably would've rather died than had someone ruin the fight for him.
When you get to a certain point getting kills isn't really a thrill and dieing really isn't a big deal. I would never assume someone is mad just because they died, unless they acted in a way that clearly demonstrates that.
The issue that you're having is kind of a disconnect I think. No one goes to the MA to find a 1v1. It's a pretty unrealistic expectation to have and the game would not be at all fun if you expected to find that on a regular basis.
However, by a serendipitous event, you occasionally find yourself alone with an enemy pilot of a similar skill level to you in the MA. It's not about seeking it, but it does happen. When you find this person and you engage them, and several minutes later you're still riding the stall, black out, flipping your plane around for that guns solution and he's doing the same... it's fun, and above that, you start to develop a certain respect for your opponent. Even if that sounds ridiculous, you can certainly appreciate fighting another skilled pilot man on man in the MA.
So, when, completely unexpectedly, you find yourself in this dogfight, and 7 minutes later you're still having that fight that makes your week, winning or losing, and some dork in a P51 blasts through at 400 mph and ends it in 5 seconds without asking it's pretty frustrating. Even if someone saves your bellybutton it can be, because at that point you really start to feel like your opponent deserves that kill.
Breaking up a 1v1 in a furball isn't a big deal, but when you see an isolated 1v1 you should really consider that those two might be having some fun at it and there may be several minutes of fun left. Lets face it, there's a lot of climbing and transit for this game for not a whole lot of action a lot of the time, so every moment of excitement is precious, and there are few things more exhilarating in this game (to a lot of people at least) than a spontaneous, hard fought 1v1.
Excellent description. I completely agree.
- oldman
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:huh Man I'm sure glad I don't fly in LW, you people don't know what you want. :bolt:
Right you are, sir. :)
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In the mains, you kill them where you find them. No quarter given. No apologies required. Next time someone pipes up with a rant like that, report them.
Lol, report them? Why, unless you report every bit of swearing you hear. If you don't, it boils down to you using their swearing as an excuse to report them, only because they struck a nerve when they call you a "f***ing gang-banging skilless tard". Really, whenever I see people trying to defend the hoarding, and the picking, all I see is a guilty conscience. "Expect it to happen, you're in the MA" only means "I feel like I have the right to interupt your fun", no more and no less.
In the many occasions when I was in a MA 1v1 and the *con's* team mate jumped in, no one asked me if it was "OK". I just dealt with it. No complaining. Certainly no swearing.
This is ENTIRELY irrelevent. The con shouldn't have asked you before jumping in, he should have asked the other con. And the onus was on your first opponent to ask not to be interupted, it wasn't on you. To be honest, that you feel the need to say "look how well I handle things", especially when the situations aren't the same, or even comparable, makes me suspect you have a guilty conscience lurking somewhere as well.
And even if the situations were comparable, all it shows is that you haven't gotten to the point where you notice the scarcity of those truely good fights, and feel annoyed when they are cut short, and that you're a bit colder than most people. It doesn't say your method of opperation is better, it doesn't say that at all.
Same deal when a team mate jumps in. Many times this has happened. Not once have I complained. Some seem to think I should have. I didn't and I won't though. Often as not when my team mate jumped in it enabled *me* to get the kill. Especially when my ride was inferior to the con's. I appreciated the help. But if my team mate got the kill then great. I am a team player.
And herein lies the crux of our discussion. Essentially we just have two conflicting points of view on what is most important. One group says its the fight itself, and more specifically the QUALITY of the fight that matters, with the outcome being meaningless. Then we have the opposite, where the outcome is primarily or entirely what matters, and how they reach that end does not factor into their thoughts.
Personally, I feel like you shouldn't form your opinion based on reading the opinions of others. You should try flying both ways for a good while, and decide on your own which is for you.
I will also say if you're in an inferior aircraft, and you're trying to shoot down as many red guys as possible, as quickly as possible, while 'helping your team', then you're trying to do it wrong. However, that you're flying inferior aircraft also give me some hope for you. You'll start improving, flying better, and lasting longer. You'll start recognizing the good fights from the average and the mediocre, and you'll appreciate them as such.
Lastly, if you want to be a team player, find a squadron to fly with, and make them your home. If you're furballing, or just out fighting, then the only purpose those 'teammates' of yours serve is to act as distractions, so that you can get a guns solution on that spitfire, and to keep you from being the only target for the enemy horde. To that end, they're interchangable, and when that happens in a group, its hard to call that group a team.
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You asked about etiquette, but it seems more like you'd just like explain to everyone why you were in the right
Just guilty conscience, Motherland. But that he has a conscience to be bothered by guilt is encouraging, as it shows some part of him knows he could have acted better. He says he's flying inferior aircraft, and that to is encouraging.
Give him time, and positive experiences, and I expect he'll turn out all right.
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After having fellow countrymen make bogus check six calls when I am hammering the enemy so they can swoop in and steal the kill, I gladly jump on a 1vs1.......unless I hear from them on range vox
It's only a keystroke away.
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i always ask if i can jump into a 1 V 1, especially if its a team mate. they'll holler if they need help. theres nothing i hate worse then someone coming into my fight un-invited. people with common courtesy ask if they can jump in or if their help is needed. people without common courtesy, well, we already know what they are like. take the high road and ask, trust me its appreciated and it wont kill you. there are many that may disagree, but there are many that will appreciate it.
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This has been answered pretty well but here is my take....
If someone is working me over and winning...I'd just as soon let em kill me than have someone pop him. That said there have been times I've asked for help..but usually its before the fight starts (gliding, almost gliding, no ammo....not able to fight for some reason). It's sort of frustrating to work a fight for some time just to have someone pop the guy just before the fight is over (win or lose). On the other hand when that happens I figure I need to work on gunnery, acm or both in order to end the fights quicker.
Since that's how I feel about it I usually ask before interrupting a fight. I also figure if a red guy has 2 (or more) green guys on him they probably don't need rescuing. I have also broke off a fight if I ask them not to jump in and they do it anyway. On the other hand if someone asks for help 1v1 I'll almost always jump in.
Not everyone in the game shares these views and thats fine. Play how you want. I can promise this...no matter how you play someone will not be happy with what your doing at some point or another. These folks will sometimes let you know how they feel about how you play the game. There isn't much you can do about it other than use the .squelch command.
I try not to let this game frustrate me ... it's supposed to be fun and I'm definately not going to let some other person's ranting ruin my fun. I'm not really sure why they would think I would care about their opinion in the first place....esp if they sound like a raving lunatic.
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Lol, report them? Why, unless you report every bit of swearing you hear. If you don't, it boils down to you using their swearing as an excuse to report them, only because they struck a nerve when they call you a "f***ing gang-banging skilless tard". Really, whenever I see people trying to defend the hoarding, and the picking, all I see is a guilty conscience. "Expect it to happen, you're in the MA" only means "I feel like I have the right to interupt your fun", no more and no less.
This is ENTIRELY irrelevent. The con shouldn't have asked you before jumping in, he should have asked the other con. And the onus was on your first opponent to ask not to be interupted, it wasn't on you. To be honest, that you feel the need to say "look how well I handle things", especially when the situations aren't the same, or even comparable, makes me suspect you have a guilty conscience lurking somewhere as well.
:rolleyes:
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Depends on where the 1v1 is. If there are two guys fighting off alone I'll ask if the friendly wants help and respect what he says. If they are in the middle of a furball its fair game.
How about the incident where I saw several enemy dots closing our only field on the main island inside dar circle, shot one down, got HO'd by another and got the full load on 200, for ruining their practicing of 2-3 vs 1 maneuvers?
After having fellow countrymen make bogus check six calls when I am hammering the enemy so they can swoop in and steal the kill, I gladly jump on a 1vs1.......unless I hear from them on range vox
It's only a keystroke away.
I know of people who don't have a mike, also know of cases where a player has been unable to speak due to family members sleeping in the same room. Makes me doubt if there's someone playing without sound, because most of the times when I ask I get no answer. Or maybe they play without keyboard, too?
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Simple.
Ask before you join.
If the answer is no, and you see an enemy con trying to interrupt the same fight. Engage him!
If the answer is yes, back up your teammate and kill it.
Salute if saluted, salute valiant fights.
Respect other players and in the immortal words of superfly.
Don't be a dick.
Follow all those and you will be fine.
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My plan for the future is to try to ask before joining a 1v1.
I will say that the enjoyment of this game is diminished somewhat for me with the fear that I may inadvertently do something to tick someone off. :uhoh
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My plan for the future is to try to ask before joining a 1v1.
I will say that the enjoyment of this game is diminished somewhat for me with the fear that I may inadvertently do something to tick someone off. :uhoh
if you ask before jumping in.....a solid 1vs1 out of the way in the MA....not talking furball here.....
if you dont vulch..........
if you try to use ACM instead of Hoing every time..........
if you actually engage the nme to fight......
if you give chk 6's when you see them.....
you will be solid....and anyone that gets pissy because of that type of game play......well.....it is on them not YOU.
I have flown this way 99.99% of my time in AH....and still get rage PM's.....I laugh it off...its usually from someone that has no clue and needs to explain away their suckage....
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u talkin to me? u talkin to MEH?!?!? no way, pu*k!!! re spect, walk
:lol
happy new year Nuke! :cheers:
happy new year debrody, don't abuse the lady vodka too much :cheers:
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seconded, Happy new year Debrody, :cheers:
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happy new year debrody, don't abuse the lady vodka too much :cheers:
havent been drinking for 50 days
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My plan for the future is to try to ask before joining a 1v1.
I will say that the enjoyment of this game is diminished somewhat for me with the fear that I may inadvertently do something to tick someone off. :uhoh
Apply the golden rule and you'll be fine. Asking on range before jumping a 1v1 is really tactically sound as well as honorable. No sense in you blowing E and cutting into your SA pie if you don't need to.
Don't worry about ticking people off. If you can't tell by the responses you've gotten, it's impossible NOT to ruffle feathers in this game.
:cheers:
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Hit f12 and say "woooo....woooo.......the pain train is coming!!" Like terry Tate, office linebacker.
Then give the friendly a few seconds to answer before Rollin' the fate train of pain.
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If I happen upon the 1v1 fight and it's in a position that won't affect what I'm doing or think I'm going to be doing in the next few minutes, I ask the friendly if he has it under control. If he says yes, I usually get over top of them to provide top cover. One benefit to this is the red guy that tries to dive in on the 1v1 is often a) target fixated and b) trying to gang up on the friendly so it feels good when I kill him.
If I'm in a circumstance where the bandit could take a swipe at me, I treat it as a threat and engage.
If a bandit dives into a crowd of friendlies that I happen to be in, I try to help kill it.
Wiley.
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Red is dead wanna 1v1 set up a duel, thats what the DUELING arena is for. It is nice to ask and have someone ask but to expect it is asinine.
See the Quote from Del in Wileys tag line. came from a thread enitinged 'Green Guy Etiqutte' http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304186.msg3909125.html#msg3909125 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304186.msg3909125.html#msg3909125)
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if you ask before jumping in.....a solid 1vs1 out of the way in the MA....not talking furball here.....
if you dont vulch..........
if you try to use ACM instead of Hoing every time..........
if you actually engage the nme to fight......
if you give chk 6's when you see them.....
you will be solid....and anyone that gets pissy because of that type of game play......well.....it is on them not YOU.
I have flown this way 99.99% of my time in AH....and still get rage PM's.....I laugh it off...its usually from someone that has no clue and needs to explain away their suckage....
Remind me when I return to change to your side, .wingman you, follow at a safe distance with altitude and pick everyone you engage.............. :devil I'm Kidding, easy there. If I do find you fighting 4 or 5 guys, an I know you do, I am going to jump in on that one BTW, your just being a kill hog then. :salute Inky dinky doo
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havent been drinking for 50 days
Congratulations DeBrody....that's a lot bigger deal than anything else that goes on here :aok
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Remind me when I return to change to your side, .wingman you, follow at a safe distance with altitude and pick everyone you engage.............. :devil I'm Kidding, easy there. If I do find you fighting 4 or 5 guys, an I know you do, I am going to jump in on that one BTW, your just being a kill hog then. :salute Inky dinky doo
:rofl
:salute
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As I said, my plan is to always try to ask my team mate before entering a 1v1. But I am concerned about making the con mad because he may be enjoying "the best fight of the month" or whatever and I don't want to tick him off. What is the best way to ask the con if he is OK with me entering the 1v1? I'm not very familiar with the various radio options. If my team mate says OK but the con says no I assume I should stay out. Thanks.
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As I said, my plan is to always try to ask my team mate before entering a 1v1. But I am concerned about making the con mad because he may be enjoying "the best fight of the month" or whatever and I don't want to tick him off. What is the best way to ask the con if he is OK with me entering the 1v1? I'm not very familiar with the various radio options. If my team mate says OK but the con says no I assume I should stay out. Thanks.
simple..... if it is a 1vs1....dont interfere....dont ask.....just go find another nme, there are more then enough to go around.
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As I said, my plan is to always try to ask my team mate before entering a 1v1. But I am concerned about making the con mad because he may be enjoying "the best fight of the month" or whatever and I don't want to tick him off. What is the best way to ask the con if he is OK with me entering the 1v1? I'm not very familiar with the various radio options. If my team mate says OK but the con says no I assume I should stay out. Thanks.
If the friendly asks for help then go ahead. If it ticks off the enemy it's your friendly's fault that he asked for help.
You can ask on 200 if you're really worried about it but not everyone tunes 200
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As I said, my plan is to always try to ask my team mate before entering a 1v1. But I am concerned about making the con mad because he may be enjoying "the best fight of the month" or whatever and I don't want to tick him off. What is the best way to ask the con if he is OK with me entering the 1v1? I'm not very familiar with the various radio options. If my team mate says OK but the con says no I assume I should stay out. Thanks.
If your team mate asks for help why would you care about ticking the other guy off? He's your team mate, in a team game, in a team arena.
Asking in the middle of a fight throws off the fight many of the times anyway. Unless someone has a typist to answer you.
Like they say, this is just a game, so why do they get so P O'd for getting jumped in a game BUILT AROUND GANG WARFARE? Question their motives more, worry less.
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Really, whenever I see people trying to defend the hoarding, and the picking, all I see is a guilty conscience. "Expect it to happen, you're in the MA" only means "I feel like I have the right to interupt your fun", no more and no less.
Sorry Tank, but that's BULL PUCKY.
What your telling others is, screw your friends or countrymen, let them die if they can't hack it.
So why don't we all just get in a conga line for Bruv? Forget about anything that resembles anything close to a real dogfight from WW2.
Bruv- "NEXT"
cha cha cha
Bruv- "NEXT"
cha cha cha
Bruv- "NEXT"
aye aye aye
This game is an air combat game CHRISTS SAKE. If I ever wanted a 1v1 I ASKED on 200 if anyone wanted to duel. I cant tell you how many times I GOT NOTHING. For hours no responses. No one wanted to duel. Including most of the guys who are here talking about how much they live for the 1v1.
And now your telling me I got to feel guilty about jumping a 1v1 in the main arena? BULL PUCKY
Let me make this clear. I don't make a habbit of intruding on 1v1's, but Ill be dammed if I'm going to take crap for it on the occassion that I do. IT'S the FLUFFIN MAIN ARENA. THE ONE THEY MADE TO GIVE US AN EXPERIENCE SOMETHING REMOTELY, BUT NOT QUITE, BUT KINDA, BUT IN YOUR DREAMS, LIKE WW2.
Scenarios may be great, but they are frequently too limited by schedule and time constraints. There are supposed to be no rules in the MA, so whyT.F. do I have to follow the asinine rules set by players too lazy to just ask for duels and go to the DA for their fun, WHERE THE GAME DEVELOPERS MADE SPECIAL RULES FOR THIS EXACT PROBLEM?
In closing, please stop making me feel guilty. Honestly, there might be tears.
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The most fun, by far, that I have is in a many on many brawl. That said, a lot of people seem to think one vs one is where the fun is so I like to ask before jumping in.
The only time I really get annoyed is when I am about to bag my opponent in a one on one after having drained his E only to have a friendly "help" me by clearing my twelve. I don't say anything, but it sometimes annoys me.
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The only time I really get annoyed is when I am about to bag my opponent in a one on one after having drained his E only to have a friendly "help" me by clearing my twelve. I don't say anything, but it sometimes annoys me.
What if your opponent is about to bag you but then one of your friendlies jumps in and takes him out? Doesn't that ruin his enjoyment of the "perfect" 1v1 fight as well? Many have told me that winning the war is not the main purpose of this game, having fun is most important. So what about the "fun" of the con? Is it to be respected any less than the green plane?
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What if your opponent is about to bag you but then one of your friendlies jumps in and takes him out? Doesn't that ruin his enjoyment of the "perfect" 1v1 fight as well? Many have told me that winning the war is not the main purpose of this game, having fun is most important. So what about the "fun" of the con? Is it to be respected any less than the green plane?
I imagine it does.
One concession I have always made to my enemies is to bail as soon as I was sure I couldn't save my crippled aircraft so that the guys to tried to score kills off of falling wrecks couldn't deprive them of the kill. That isn't as much an issue since the change to kill awarding, but back in the day parasites were a real problem.
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What if your opponent is about to bag you but then one of your friendlies jumps in and takes him out? Doesn't that ruin his enjoyment of the "perfect" 1v1 fight as well? Many have told me that winning the war is not the main purpose of this game, having fun is most important. So what about the "fun" of the con? Is it to be respected any less than the green plane?
I know you are quoting karnak but to answer your question...NO
if my nme has earned his kill, I get just as aggravated if someone comes in and picks him.....
I am not a dedicated 1vs1 guy by any means.....I just care about fighting and engaging in combat...to me that is what the game is about.....and it seems the way it is setup....thats what the game is about....and seeings how I read the same words from the creator himself........
I have tried all the other flying combat games.....AH is the best there is, because of how HTC set it up.....WW2 online is very different then AH....but many try to make it like that.....don't listen to them......
also dont listen to the ones that say Honor and respect is not part of AH and they even say it is "silly"
that just tells me they do not have Honor or respect in life.....don't let them drag you down to their level....and yes I say DOWN to their level on purpose.
I imagine it does.
One concession I have always made to my enemies is to bail as soon as I was sure I couldn't save my crippled aircraft so that the guys to tried to score kills off of falling wrecks couldn't deprive them of the kill. That isn't as much an issue since the change to kill awarding, but back in the day parasites were a real problem.
you mean to say NO I am sure......reread the last question...... :D
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Sorry Tank, but that's BULL PUCKY.
What your telling others is, screw your friends or countrymen, let them die if they can't hack it.
So why don't we all just get in a conga line for Bruv? Forget about anything that resembles anything close to a real dogfight from WW2.
Bruv- "NEXT"
cha cha cha
Bruv- "NEXT"
cha cha cha
Bruv- "NEXT"
aye aye aye
This game is an air combat game CHRISTS SAKE. If I ever wanted a 1v1 I ASKED on 200 if anyone wanted to duel. I cant tell you how many times I GOT NOTHING. For hours no responses. No one wanted to duel. Including most of the guys who are here talking about how much they live for the 1v1.
And now your telling me I got to feel guilty about jumping a 1v1 in the main arena? BULL PUCKY
Let me make this clear. I don't make a habbit of intruding on 1v1's, but Ill be dammed if I'm going to take crap for it on the occassion that I do. IT'S the FLUFFIN MAIN ARENA. THE ONE THEY MADE TO GIVE US AN EXPERIENCE SOMETHING REMOTELY, BUT NOT QUITE, BUT KINDA, BUT IN YOUR DREAMS, LIKE WW2.
Scenarios may be great, but they are frequently too limited by schedule and time constraints. There are supposed to be no rules in the MA, so whyT.F. do I have to follow the asinine rules set by players too lazy to just ask for duels and go to the DA for their fun, WHERE THE GAME DEVELOPERS MADE SPECIAL RULES FOR THIS EXACT PROBLEM?
In closing, please stop making me feel guilty. Honestly, there might be tears.
It is a fact that you WILL get flamed sometimes if you intrude on a 1v1, and general rule of thumb is to stay out. Especially if it's a pilot like Ink, Bruv, Debrody, pervert, scotch, etc etc etc the list goes on, they're all great/reputable pilots who will probably not need help in a 1v1, and even if they do need help - they don't want it.
here's how I go about it: STAY OUT unless the other person asks for help, and even then - if I know the pilot - I will probably stay out until he dies.
PS: the same goes for me - if I was having a great random 1v1 in the MA and you barged in and killed him, I'd be angry - I'd probably climb up and wait/watch you die so I could hope find the guy again, or find a way to get you killed lolz
yeaaaa, im a sweetheart sometimes when people do that stuff :lol :D
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also dont listen to the ones that say Honor and respect is not part of AH and they even say it is "silly"
Honor and respect means playing the game according to the rules set out BY THE DEVELOPERS in that arena. You guys are making up your own rules. If you ask me, I'll stay out. End of story.
It is a fact that you WILL get flamed sometimes if you intrude on a 1v1, and general rule of thumb is to stay out. Especially if it's a pilot like Ink, Bruv, Debrody, pervert, scotch, etc etc etc the list goes on, they're all great/reputable pilots who will probably not need help in a 1v1, and even if they do need help - they don't want it.
here's how I go about it: STAY OUT unless the other person asks for help, and even then - if I know the pilot - I will probably stay out until he dies.
PS: the same goes for me - if I was having a great random 1v1 in the MA and you barged in and killed him, I'd be angry - I'd probably climb up and wait/watch you die so I could hope find the guy again, or find a way to get you killed lolz
yeaaaa, im a sweetheart sometimes when people do that stuff :lol :D
Let them, flame away. And you'd have a long wait to see me get killed by 'em.
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Let them, flame away. And you'd have a long wait to see me get killed by 'em.
I'm sure I would, those 8.4 seconds would just drag by :rofl
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I'm sure I would, those 8.4 seconds would just drag by :rofl
LOL
You'll see some day youngin.
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LOL
You'll see some day youngin.
Nice! MUZIK meet Redbull, Redbull, this is MUZIK. If MUZIK decides someday to comeback, you both will get allllllll you want 1 v 1.
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here's how I go about it: STAY OUT unless the other person asks for help, and even then - if I know the pilot - I will probably stay out until he dies.
An excellent guide, easy to remember. I agree.
- oldman
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I avoid furballs when I can.
Hate them.
I go for the 3 to 5 cons, vs 2 or 3 greenies.
Makes for alot more fun.
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Nice! MUZIK meet Redbull, Redbull, this is MUZIK. If MUZIK decides someday to comeback, you both will get allllllll you want 1 v 1.
*waves* Let's start over, DIE YOU M -- err Hi :)
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I know you are quoting karnak but to answer your question...NO
if my nme has earned his kill, I get just as aggravated if someone comes in and picks him.....
So unlike the many posts saying that it's OK to enter a 1v1 if you first ask your team mate (and he says OK), you are saying it is not OK (unless I guess if one also asks the con if it's OK and he also says yes, but this seems a bit cumbersome). Many have said it's OK if you ask first. But you say it's never OK, I guess. Unless the 1v1 is in a furball or perhaps close enough to the action or a furball. Judgement call on how close is close I guess. This seems a bit counter intuitive for the Main Arena, but I'll admit ignorance about this stuff. I would have thought helping a team mate in a 1v1 if he asks for help or agrees to the help when queried would be the expected behavior. He may be in trouble because he is in an inferior ride, for example. :confused:
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-- I am concerned about making the con mad because he may be enjoying "the best fight of the month" or whatever--
What if your squadmate is returning to base, low on ammo and fuel and maybe missing parts, a con engages him with a fresh plane and he asks for help because of his unability to fight? I've seen ranting on 200 after such a situation for spoiling the con's 'whatever'.
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So unlike the many posts saying that it's OK to enter a 1v1 if you first ask your team mate (and he says OK), you are saying it is not OK (unless I guess if one also asks the con if it's OK and he also says yes, but this seems a bit cumbersome). Many have said it's OK if you ask first. But you say it's never OK, I guess. Unless the 1v1 is in a furball or perhaps close enough to the action or a furball. Judgement call on how close is close I guess. This seems a bit counter intuitive for the Main Arena, but I'll admit ignorance about this stuff. I would have thought helping a team mate in a 1v1 if he asks for help or agrees to the help when queried would be the expected behavior. He may be in trouble because he is in an inferior ride, for example. :confused:
no I said play how you want....and then accept the rep you will get for that play......
the suggestions on how to play........ is how I fly......
take it how you want...... :aok
EDIT
and as far as the ones saying it cool to jump in on a out of the way 1vs1......are probably the same that will say its OK to vulch...its OK to jump on a con 10 vs 1......and Honor isn't in a game......
me personally I don't hold much stock in what those people say.
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I have always had this personal rule about this, all the way back to my AW days, in the early 90's...
What would I do in real combat?.......
If the player on my side is winning (from my point of veiw) and is going to make the kill "soon". ("Soon" being the key word) I stay out and watch for other bad guys.
If all he is doing is going around and around... taking to long to make the kill, I move in and end it.
If he is losing... I move in to help (If he isn't a known a-hole)
CAVALRY
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So unlike the many posts saying that it's OK to enter a 1v1 if you first ask your team mate (and he says OK), you are saying it is not OK (unless I guess if one also asks the con if it's OK and he also says yes, but this seems a bit cumbersome). Many have said it's OK if you ask first. But you say it's never OK, I guess. Unless the 1v1 is in a furball or perhaps close enough to the action or a furball. Judgement call on how close is close I guess. This seems a bit counter intuitive for the Main Arena, but I'll admit ignorance about this stuff. I would have thought helping a team mate in a 1v1 if he asks for help or agrees to the help when queried would be the expected behavior. He may be in trouble because he is in an inferior ride, for example. :confused:
Just let them fight it out if it's an isolated 1v1. There are always other cons to fight.
If your "team mate" doesn't need your help he'll resent you jumping in. If he does though then you're helping him by letting him gain experience :)
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:noid 7 pages of replies, and no one has given the same answer. :banana: :banana:
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:old:
If it will not get your account suspended then its fair game. How others perceive your actions are up too the individual.
No ban no problems with admin... Your call.
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So unlike the many posts saying that it's OK to enter a 1v1 if you first ask your team mate (and he says OK), you are saying it is not OK (unless I guess if one also asks the con if it's OK and he also says yes, but this seems a bit cumbersome). Many have said it's OK if you ask first. But you say it's never OK, I guess. Unless the 1v1 is in a furball or perhaps close enough to the action or a furball. Judgement call on how close is close I guess. This seems a bit counter intuitive for the Main Arena, but I'll admit ignorance about this stuff. I would have thought helping a team mate in a 1v1 if he asks for help or agrees to the help when queried would be the expected behavior. He may be in trouble because he is in an inferior ride, for example. :confused:
No, you are wrong sir. What you are is not ignorant, unless you start believing this drivel. Yours are the words of common sense.
I don't deny there is some room for the "rhetorical honor" they are suggesting. For example. If you have had a good fight you may do the honorable thing and let your wounded or exhausted opponent live to return to base.
Here's a point to ponder. Many of these fellows are acquainted with the "best" sticks in the game. They have access to the "best" fights they will ever get at the mere request of a few fights in the DA. Do you see them do this? Hell yes they do. And what happens is they get their tulips handed to them repeatedly. Over and over and over and over again. Get my point? They are only happy if they can win.
But do you see the "best" sticks in the game in here complaining about being shot in 1v1s? No.
Bruv, Grizz, and a few others NEVER complain about these things. It most certainly will annoy anyone if they fail to survive this situation, but they have the reputations they have BECAUSE of their ability to WATCH THEIR SIX AT ALL TIMES. And when they spot someone breaking into their fight, that's when the 2v1 or 3v1 fights of a lifetime begin. They win multiple bandit fights on a regular basis because they developed the skills and the ATTITUDE necessary to do this.
You have a choice to make right now, you can accept the attitude these fella's tell you is fact, but by doing so you are engraining your psyche with a belief that there is no winning outside of a 1v1. It may not be a conscious belief, but it will be a pervasive fundamental that will dictate the limits of your performance forever.
Choose your attitude, and choose your limits. Honor past a certain point becomes melodrama.
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When GVing, I've noticed myself giving a lot of check 12 calls.
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Be it Airwarrior, Warbirds, FighterAce, Aceshigh2, WW2 Online, Il-2, Rise of Flight or the real world....
Being good in a 1 vs 1 is a near useless skill in any combat Sim/game. Why? because only noobs Fly alone or someone who has no fear many targets... Most all of us need all the help we can get when up against those guys. :eek:
Cav
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:huh :)
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If all he is doing is going around and around... taking to long to make the kill, I move in and end it.
Yes, this was the situation I came upon. The 1v1 had clearly been going on for a long time. See the OP. Having numerous times been in a 1v1 and then having the con's squadie(s) step in to help him, no one asked me but I didn't mind and just dealt with the extra challenge.
Some here have accused me of having a guilty conscience and my posting was simply an attempt to justify my bad behavior. No. My conscience was/is clear.
Muzik sums things up pretty well. If the hallowed 1v1 is so special then why don't those who cherish them so much just schedule them in advance and go to the DA or TA?
I am done with this thread and genuinely thank those who replied, even those accusing me of a "guilty conscience". I come away from all of this with a sense of disillusionment in the game. Maybe I need to find another activity. Too bad though. Trying to experience some of what it must have been like to be a WWII fighter pilot, hurtling a potent crate through the sky with all of the anticipation and excitement that goes with, was at least for awhile a really neat experience. Maybe I'll just return to single-player IL2 Sturmovik where all other pilots are robots. See ya.
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If I am patroling in a not crowded area and I see an isolated 1 vs 1 I don't interrup it unless my countrymate asks for it.
If the same situation happens in a crowded area but the 1 vs 1 is isolated I ASK to my countrymate if he needs any help. If answer is affirmative I go in.
If the same situation happens in a crowded area but the 1 vs 1 is not isolated I'll try to kill the enemy the quicker the better.
This is how I usually deal with 1vs1 in 3 different enviroments.
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Yes, this was the situation I came upon. The 1v1 had clearly been going on for a long time. See the OP. Having numerous times been in a 1v1 and then having the con's squadie(s) step in to help him, no one asked me but I didn't mind and just dealt with the extra challenge.
Some here have accused me of having a guilty conscience and my posting was simply an attempt to justify my bad behavior. No. My conscience was/is clear.
Muzik sums things up pretty well. If the hallowed 1v1 is so special then why don't those who cherish them so much just schedule them in advance and go to the DA or TA?
I am done with this thread and genuinely thank those who replied, even those accusing me of a "guilty conscience". I come away from all of this with a sense of disillusionment in the game. Maybe I need to find another activity. Too bad though. Trying to experience some of what it must have been like to be a WWII fighter pilot, hurtling a potent crate through the sky with all of the anticipation and excitement that goes with, was at least for awhile a really neat experience. Maybe I'll just return to single-player IL2 Sturmovik where all other pilots are robots. See ya.
WOW! just WOW!
Felling a little big on yourself maybe? Look, it's a game. Play how you like, ignore the people you don't like and have fun. If someone giving you crap bothers you so much you may have other issues to worry about. Good luck plying with yourself..... in IL2
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Maybe I'll just return to single-player IL2 Sturmovik where all other pilots are robots. See ya.
I percieve you are a little sensitive to verbal conflict. A good solid year of Aces High + forum will knock that out of you.
Of course you can go back to the comfort of your bots. As Bruce Lee said: bots don't fight back.
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This topic reflects life in general, where there are no objective morals. You can choose to do whatever you want, regardless of how those actions affect other people, and deal with the consequences, good or bad. Or you can choose to do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself, regardless if other people will also live like this or not, and deal with those consequences, good or bad.
Personally, if I see a 1v1 in the MA, I will ask my fellow countryman if he wants help. If he doesn't answer I will usually stay out, but not always. How could you tell if he wants help, but maybe doesn't have a mic, or didn't hear you ask? Maybe he gets killed and then asks why none of the friendlies in the area didn't come to help him. IMO, I'd rather have a pissed off teammate who lived, than a pissed off teammate who got killed.
IMO, no one in the MA should be too upset about not getting a 1v1, or having a 1v1 broken up by another person, friend or foe. If you really want just 1v1's, then go to the DA and find a like minded mate.
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I'll bet the angry party had expended his ammo and was hoping for a maneuver kill.
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So unlike the many posts saying that it's OK to enter a 1v1 if you first ask your team mate (and he says OK), you are saying it is not OK (unless I guess if one also asks the con if it's OK and he also says yes, but this seems a bit cumbersome). Many have said it's OK if you ask first. But you say it's never OK, I guess. Unless the 1v1 is in a furball or perhaps close enough to the action or a furball. Judgement call on how close is close I guess. This seems a bit counter intuitive for the Main Arena, but I'll admit ignorance about this stuff. I would have thought helping a team mate in a 1v1 if he asks for help or agrees to the help when queried would be the expected behavior. He may be in trouble because he is in an inferior ride, for example. :confused:
To me it's very simple. In the MA, if they are red I'm going after them. If two people want a 1v1, then they should find an empty base or better yet go to the DA. :aok
I get thanked often for helping someone in a 1v1 and get berated, on rare occasion, for jumping in. I appreciate the former and ignore the rare berater. :)
Just like in real life you sometimes have to ignore those that wish to disparage you. :old:
The many thank yous far outweigh a cursing furious should have been in the DA pilot that you occasionally run into. :)
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WOW! just WOW!
Felling a little big on yourself maybe? ... Good luck plying with yourself..... in IL2
I am going to treat this particular post as if it never existed and I never read it.
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You're likely going to get a several different opinions on this, however what it's worth my thoughts are this.
If I see a 1v1 happening, regardless of what arena I'm in it seems to me that it would be a common courtesy to ask before jumping in. Either way a quick "hey to you need help?" is far easier than any other alternative.
I believe this is the correct answer. :aok
Since everyone has their own opinion about how to proceed, just ask them what they want, and you're all set. Trying to figure out a set of rules is futile, because every player will a different answer, at different times.
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I believe this is the correct answer. :aok
Since everyone has their own opinion about how to proceed, just ask them what they want, and you're all set. Trying to figure out a set of rules is futile, because every player will a different answer, at different times.
+1. I will try to kill each con properly. I will arrange DA time. I will ask before jumping in. But know this, I'm shooting something... It's getting done, lol
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I have had both ends: I have helped someone who looked like they were in trouble and been accused of kill stealing. I have also intentionally stayed out of a fight and then been accused of not helping. :bhead
These days I play with the volume on voice chat turned down to 0 and the text chat hidden while flying. Life has been much better since.
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To me it's very simple. In the MA, if they are red I'm going after them. If two people want a 1v1, then they should find an empty base or better yet go to the DA. :aok
I get thanked often for helping someone in a 1v1 and get berated, on rare occasion, for jumping in. I appreciate the former and ignore the rare berater. :)
Just like in real life you sometimes have to ignore those that wish to disparage you. :old:
The many thank yous far outweigh a cursing furious should have been in the DA pilot that you occasionally run into. :)
In other words you chose to hear that wich inflates your ego, and ignore those that tell you when you're negatively affecting their gameplay. Very symptomatic of affliction that affects you so greatly.
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In other words you chose to hear that wich inflates your ego, and ignore those that tell you when you're negatively affecting their gameplay. Very symptomatic of affliction that affects you so greatly.
Well said.
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When the Grayclif is challenged repeatedly in the MA, and taunted by a player (who will remain nameless) to come to the DA - the Grayclif will respond by going to said DA and hunting down the harrasser regardless of whom that individual is dueling with; and shoot him/her down. If you want a fair duel, then please "pm" me in the MA and type the following: "glove slap across face". That means you would like to duel the Black Knight of Aces High - Grayclif, and I will gladly come and mince your plane to pieces. Do not be reporting the Grayclif for conduct or so called "etiquette" violations. Seriously? Etiquette? Etiquette only applies to chat and voice in the Grayclif's book.
Sincerely,
The Grayclif
ALL HAIL THE GRAYCLIF
<H> please be seated
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When the Grayclif is challenged repeatedly in the MA, and taunted by a player (who will remain nameless) to come to the DA - the Grayclif will respond by going to said DA and hunting down the harrasser regardless of whom that individual is dueling with; and shoot him/her down. If you want a fair duel, then please "pm" me in the MA and type the following: "glove slap across face". That means you would like to duel the Black Knight of Aces High - Grayclif, and I will gladly come and mince your plane to pieces. Do not be reporting the Grayclif for conduct or so called "etiquette" violations. Seriously? Etiquette? Etiquette only applies to chat and voice in the Grayclif's book.
Sincerely,
The Grayclif
ALL HAIL THE GRAYCLIF
<H> please be seated
Do you get your drugs from a pharmacy or street corner? If it is the latter, may I please have the location of the street corner?
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Oh great, another 'care in the community' player :rolleyes:
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When the Grayclif is challenged repeatedly in the MA, and taunted by a player (who will remain nameless) to come to the DA - the Grayclif will respond by going to said DA and hunting down the harrasser regardless of whom that individual is dueling with; and shoot him/her down. If you want a fair duel, then please "pm" me in the MA and type the following: "glove slap across face". That means you would like to duel the Black Knight of Aces High - Grayclif, and I will gladly come and mince your plane to pieces. Do not be reporting the Grayclif for conduct or so called "etiquette" violations. Seriously? Etiquette? Etiquette only applies to chat and voice in the Grayclif's book.
Sincerely,
The Grayclif
ALL HAIL THE GRAYCLIF
<H> please be seated
you are as irritating as "who"
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That's it, I am now at retard event horizon. Just one more 'Midway' on this forum and I'm off! :old:
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That's it, I am now at retard event horizon. Just one more 'Midway' on this forum and I'm off! :old:
Ignore, ignore, ignore :aok
It is a wonderful tool :D
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you are as irritating as "who"
Wow... I don't stand up for who very often... but I feel you have gone too far here... who spends hours in the kitchen creating works of troll art, where as Grayclif pops open the Double Charbroil With Cheese bag at the Phillips 66 and sets phasers on stupid for ~60 seconds longer than the package recommends.
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Wow... I don't stand up for who very often... but I feel you have gone too far here... who spends hours in the kitchen creating works of troll art, where as Grayclif pops open the Double Charbroil With Cheese bag at the Phillips 66 and sets phasers on stupid for ~60 seconds longer than the package recommends.
:rofl :rofl
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Graycliff may be the only player I ever wanted to slap in real life, he's just THAT annoying and full of hot air to boot.
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Graycliff may be the only player I ever wanted to slap in real life, he's just THAT annoying and full of hot air to boot.
AND...he refers to himself in the third person :bolt:
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AND...he refers to himself in the third person :bolt:
:lol
I always thought that was the only thing he does that's funny. Then again, I found the Seinfeld episode addressing third person speech hilariously funny. :headscratch:
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If the hallowed 1v1 is so special
Your feelings seem clear by this statement
then why don't those who cherish them so much just schedule them in advance and go to the DA or TA?
Well, the intensity of not expecting a white knuckle experience in the MA is exactly what is so special about it... it happens when you least expect it, which is another reason why it is so special.... it's generally different planes, another reason its special.. it's not set up, another reason its so special... it's what many old sticks play for, a different kind of adrenaline rush that doesn't happen in the DA or the TA... you see?
it's no problem to ask, I do it all the time, as well as many others who have been playing for awhile...
most of these sticks that came on here talking "MA its red its dead, screw what they think" only say that because they aren't very good in 1 vs 1's, and are jealous of those that are... it makes them feel a little less, so they disrespect it all the way around, and then try to justify themselves by their stance on the issue... it's a very weak stance, and not at all a good way to treat a friendly! No different than shooting at a wingless plane to try and steal a kill from a friendly... no difference indeed!
bottom line is it takes little effort to ask, and respect the response... don't worry, many many many many, will say, "Yes, please kill this guy for me"!!
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People that say "If you want a 1v1 go to the DA" must not get to the DA much.
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People that say "If you want a 1v1 go to the DA" must not get to the DA much.
Depends if you are talking about the clealy labeled "Furballing" area, or the dozens of other empty bases that are specifically designed for dueling.
If you go to the Furball lake looking for 1v1 without asking, you will be dissapointed.
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Depends if you are talking about the clealy labeled "Furballing" area, or the dozens of other empty bases that are specifically designed for dueling.
If you go to the Furball lake looking for 1v1 without asking, you will be dissapointed.
If someone is telling someone else "If you want a 1v1, go to the DA" then they are - by default - referring to the Furballing area.
If someone is INVITING you to the DA if you want a 1v1, well that is a different story.
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If someone is telling someone else "If you want a 1v1, go to the DA" then they are - by default - referring to the Furballing area.
If someone is INVITING you to the DA if you want a 1v1, well that is a different story.
Respectfully disagree. I know what you are saying, that most people who go into the DA randomly looking for a duel, just end up going to the Lake and start flying, and wont find any 1v1's going on(because the lake is not for 1v1's). But you can go into the DA and just ask if anyone there wants to duel, also. I see it often. Someone might say "Yes, I'll duel.", and they decide on a field and go at it.
However, most people in the DA really are there for the furball only, and dont have any desire to 1v1, so you cannot always find a 1v1 in the DA even if you want to.
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Graycliff may be the only player I ever wanted to slap in real life, he's just THAT annoying and full of hot air to boot.
Geez, his comment sucked extraordinary badly...
Guessing, Skuzzy's warning wasnt enough for him - still being that cocky, even using the royal plural...
This is going to be INteresting.
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In other words you chose to hear that wich inflates your ego, and ignore those that tell you when you're negatively affecting their gameplay. Very symptomatic of affliction that affects you so greatly.
Actually, like Nrshida has been recently in his evaluation of me, you too are off the mark here. Ego has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: Why must you assume some sort of "affliction"? :frown:
Instead, I tend to follow the golden rule "Treat others as you would want them to treat you". :)
If I'm in an MA 1v1, I enjoy the additional challenge of a 2nd or 3rd jumping in. The MA is all about the excitement of variety and difficulty for me. I can always follow up with dozens of 1v1s in the DA private fields if that's my idea of fun. :aok
If the 2nd is on my side and asks first, I will answer honestly depending on the situation assuming I can talk which is often not the case. If I can't talk and unable to type, I, by default, let them decide if they want to jump in and always respect their decision. You'll never hear me complain because someone was trying to help me win a fight. :aok
If they ask if I want help and I say "No thanks, I got it." and they then jump in anyway, I respect their decision as well since they may know something I don't, like another bad guy is coming or they need one more kill to get their diamond ace achievement, or my mic wasn't working, or i pushed the wrong mic button, etc. Again, I can always go follow up in the DA if I want private 1v1s. :aok
There are many situations and many outcomes to an MA 1v1, but my following the golden rule and respecting the decision of others never gets me upset and very often results in great fights. Inflating my ego has no part in it...as I often lose the 2 or 3 v1s. :joystick:
You can't always assume somebody can talk (they may be unable), or listen (they may be unable), so use your best judgement. Sometimes you'll be wrong, but most often you'll make the right decision. :)
Consider the golden rule to help in these matters. :old:
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Instead, I tend to follow the golden rule "Treat others as you would want them to treat you". :)
You you want to be continously annoyed and taunted? Youre such a masochist, dude.
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You you want to be continously annoyed and taunted? Youre such a masochist, dude.
If someone wants to do that, for example Arm sent me over a dozen check six's in a row the other day, HTC provides a great feature called squelch. :aok
I don't squelch often, but when I do it's usually someone cursing excessively or sending repeated check six's with no con on me. :rolleyes:
I would never do either as I tend to follow said golden rule. :angel:
:)
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Debrody,
What warning are you referring to? And what do you find interesting? Challenging The Grayclif to a duel and then having Grayclif accept only to blow you out of the sky whilst you go whine to the admin about it? You like to trash talk, but when you lose, you go and report people who are better skilled? I received no warnings. The Grayclif can trash talk, and he can also back it up with over a decade of AH experience.
Now, go about your business, as your meeting with the Grayclif will occur in the MA or DA soon enough..
Hail
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^^
The moron twins.
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I don't know I think they are kinda cute.
Can we keep one??? :pray
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I don't know I think they are kinda cute.
Can we keep one??? :pray
only if you spay them
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Actually, like Nrshida has been recently in his evaluation of me, you too are off the mark here. Ego has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: Why must you assume some sort of "affliction"? :frown:
Instead, I tend to follow the golden rule "Treat others as you would want them to treat you". :)
If I'm in an MA 1v1, I enjoy the additional challenge of a 2nd or 3rd jumping in. The MA is all about the excitement of variety and difficulty for me. I can always follow up with dozens of 1v1s in the DA private fields if that's my idea of fun. :aok
If the 2nd is on my side and asks first, I will answer honestly depending on the situation assuming I can talk which is often not the case. If I can't talk and unable to type, I, by default, let them decide if they want to jump in and always respect their decision. You'll never hear me complain because someone was trying to help me win a fight. :aok
If they ask if I want help and I say "No thanks, I got it." and they then jump in anyway, I respect their decision as well since they may know something I don't, like another bad guy is coming or they need one more kill to get their diamond ace achievement, or my mic wasn't working, or i pushed the wrong mic button, etc. Again, I can always go follow up in the DA if I want private 1v1s. :aok
There are many situations and many outcomes to an MA 1v1, but my following the golden rule and respecting the decision of others never gets me upset and very often results in great fights. Inflating my ego has no part in it...as I often lose the 2 or 3 v1s. :joystick:
You can't always assume somebody can talk (they may be unable), or listen (they may be unable), so use your best judgement. Sometimes you'll be wrong, but most often you'll make the right decision. :)
Consider the golden rule to help in these matters. :old:
Part of your affliction is that you just contradicted your "other self", completely.
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Part of your affliction is that you just contradicted your "other self", completely.
Off the mark again, as there is no "other self". I am just me, myself, and I -- the one and only self. To say there is another self is an oxymoron. :rolleyes:
A self is a self and can not be two selfs. :old:
:)
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Just because you can't see beyond your own limits doesn't mean it's not there.
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That's it, I am now at retard event horizon.
:rofl
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Just because you can't see beyond your own limits doesn't mean it's not there.
Self = Self, just as A = A. To say there are two selfs in a self is not rational. Are you rational, nrshida? :huh
If not, that may splain you being so off the mark recently. :headscratch:
Irrationally chasing nonexistent hidden selfs is not the way, nrshida and vinky. :old:
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Midway, don't try to lock horns with me intellectually, you'll sprain yourself.
You cannot see past your own rather ill-focussed insight*. You are one entity that is true, but how you perceive yourself, and how the rest of the community perceives you are two different things. Unfortunately for you the latter is closer to reality.
*It would be trivial to compile a convincing list of evidence.
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Midway, don't try to lock horns with me intellectually, you'll sprain yourself.
You cannot see past your own rather ill-focussed insight*. You are one entity that is true, but how you perceive yourself, and how the rest of the community perceives you are two different things. Unfortunately for you the latter is closer to reality.
*It would be trivial to compile a convincing list of evidence.
Shida, may I?
Perception becomes reality. He perceives himself seriously. We perceive him as a roothugger. We're both right, yes?
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Midway, don't try to lock horns with me intellectually....
It wouldn't be a fair fight, would it? Kinda like you vs my mighty Spitfire. :joystick:
There is only one reality and some of us perceive it more accurately than others, huh? :)
Being off the mark frequently indicates misperception and possibly delusion. :old:
I have been off the mark, on occasion. :old:
Practice can improve one's aim. :old:
Nrshida is fun to fight. :banana:
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Shida, may I?
Perception becomes reality. He perceives himself seriously. We perceive him as a roothugger. We're both right, yes?
No. :)
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It wouldn't be a fair fight, would it? Kinda like you vs my mighty Spitfire. :joystick:
Oh your mighty Spitfire, yes the one which goes up, chops power and pops flaps, then tucks under for the face shot, you mean that mighty Spitfire? If you didn't have that one trick Midway, the one you must have practised at least 5000 times, then you'd have no technique at all. It is, or rather was (until you've seen it once), a fairly effective technique. Does of course rather keep you in that Spitfire forever though doesn't it? :rofl
We've fought twice in the last year, both fights before Christmas. Both you had an energy advantage. In the first I pressed a cheeky position and got trapped by your above mentioned uber technique. That's fair enough, nothing ventured nothing gained.
The second fight I was low off the water and you had significant advantage. The outcome was rather humiliating for you though wouldn't you admit? All that advantage only for you to get reversed and shot like a two week noob. Right in the cockpit too. I think I put at least 5 20-mm though your head, unfortunately I still missed your brain. How embarrassing. Interestingly, in keeping with the current theme of you distorting reality, in your head you seem to amplify the first fight and suppress the second.
There is only one reality and some of us perceive it more accurately than others, huh? :)
I can illustrate you distort reality to protect an insecure and fragile ego, shall I give it a go for you? It'll hurt though.
Shida, may I?
Please do, stand by though for the most withering rebuttal you will have ever encountered in your life and which Midway perceives as a logical argument:-
Midway > Changeup
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Oh your mighty Spitfire, yes the one which goes up, chops power and pops flaps, then tucks under for the face shot, you mean that mighty Spitfire? If you didn't have that one trick Midway, the one you must have practised at least 5000 times, then you'd have no technique at all. It is, or rather was (until you've seen it once), a fairly effective technique. Does of course rather keep you in that Spitfire forever though doesn't it? :rofl
We've fought twice in the last year, both fights before Christmas. Both you had an energy advantage. In the first I pressed a cheeky position and got trapped by your above mentioned uber technique. That's fair enough, nothing ventured nothing gained.
The second fight I was low off the water and you had significant advantage. The outcome was rather humiliating for you though wouldn't you admit? All that advantage only for you to get reversed and shot like a two week noob. Right in the cockpit too. I think I put at least 5 20-mm though your head, unfortunately I still missed your brain. How embarrassing. Interestingly, in keeping with the current theme of you distorting reality, in your head you seem to amplify the first fight and suppress the second.
I can illustrate you distort reality to protect an insecure and fragile ego, shall I give it a go for you? It'll hurt though.
Please do, stand by though for the most withering rebuttal you will have ever encountered in your life and which Midway perceives as a logical argument:-
Midway > Changeup
:rofl
I don't even remember the second fight. :rofl
Nrshida is funny... as is Zack1234, but in a different way. :old:
The GFC must be a fun squad to fly with. :old:
That first fight... :ahand
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I don't even remember the second fight. :rofl
No you blocked it out. See what I mean? Your selective filtering distorts your perception. Then you come on here and brag from the flowery uberland in your head known as Midway World.
This is very serious Midway, your mental health is in severe jeopardy. Take two .455 lead tablets at medium velocity and see me in the morning :old:
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No you blocked it out. See what I mean? Your selective filtering distorts your perception. Then you come on here and brag from the flowery uberland in your head known as Midway World.
This is very serious Midway, your mental health is in severe jeopardy. Take two .455 lead tablets at medium velocity and see me in the morning :old:
<3 Nrshida :salute :rock
:)
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That first fight... :ahand
Neg, you out-turned an inferior turning plane in a superior turning plane with an energy advantage and took the face-shot. :old:
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Neg, you out-turned an inferior turning plane in a superior turning plane with an energy advantage and took the face-shot. :old:
:banana:
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Let me ask you something real quick. Is it the Spitfire which is mighty or the Midway which is mighty?
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Let me ask you something real quick. Is it the Spitfire which is mighty or the Midway which is mighty?
The Spitfire, of course. :aok
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Read only OP since I'm assuming Midway trolled the rest of this thread....
It doesn't hurt to ask...you could ruin a fight and someone else's fun if you don't...so might as well.
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The Spitfire, of course. :aok
Aha! And now I have you sir. Don't you see? :banana:
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Debrody,
What warning are you referring to? And what do you find interesting? Challenging The Grayclif to a duel and then having Grayclif accept only to blow you out of the sky whilst you go whine to the admin about it? You like to trash talk, but when you lose, you go and report people who are better skilled? I received no warnings. The Grayclif can trash talk, and he can also back it up with over a decade of AH experience.
Now, go about your business, as your meeting with the Grayclif will occur in the MA or DA soon enough..
Hail
You talking to me?
WALK!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFqg5wAuFk I think it sums it up pretty good.
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Aha! And now I have you sir. Don't you see? :banana:
You "have me" because my Spitfire is mighty and I am not -- yet? :headscratch:
If you want an awesome pilot in a mighty Spitfire you'll have to find Bruv119, pervert or similar. Unfortunately, I'm not quite there -- yet. :)
Bruv119/pervert > Changeup > Who > Nrshida
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You "have me" because my Spitfire is mighty and I am not -- yet? :headscratch:
No, I have you because you are indicating that you know it is the plane doing the work for you.
If you want an awesome pilot in a mighty Spitfire you'll have to find Bruv119, pervert or similar. Unfortunately, I'm not quite there -- yet. :)
Bruv119/pervert > Changeup > Who > Nrshida
Yes Bruv and Pervert are fantastic sticks. Changeup I can't remember fighting.
Not that it matters to me one jot, but regarding your constant Who > nrshida claims, as I've said before I do not think you can beat me in the same planes and think for your claim to have any validity whatsoever we'd have to do that. Shall we make an appointment in the DA to give you an opportunity to brag with some foundation?
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No, I have you because you are indicating that you know it is the plane doing the work for you.
Yes Bruv and Pervert are fantastic sticks. Changeup I can't remember fighting.
Not that it matters to me one jot, but regarding your constant Who > nrshida claims, as I've said before I do not think you can beat me in the same planes and think for your claim to have any validity whatsoever we'd have to do that. Shall we make an appointment in the DA to give you an opportunity to brag with some foundation?
The mighty Spitfire can not fly by itself, silly. :rolleyes:
Who > most, but certainly not all Spitfire pilots... thanks to the help of many great pilots that helped me. :)
MA is fine. :aok
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The mighty Spitfire can not fly by itself, silly. :rolleyes:
Who > most, but certainly not all Spitfire pilots... thanks to the help of many great pilots that helped me. :)
MA is fine. :aok
I did not say it was flying itself I said it was doing the work for you.
MA has too many variables, DA is more pure and honest. What's you flavour of the month Midway, Mark IX, VIII or XVI?
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I did not say it was flying itself I said it was doing the work for you.
MA has too many variables, DA is more pure and honest. What's you flavour of the month Midway, Mark IX, VIII or XVI?
I like many variables... makes things fun and interesting. I've been flying my Spitfire MK VIII mostly. :joystick:
DA is boring unless it's with someone nice, like batfinkV, that doesn't have their feet firmly planted in the dark side.. :)
Let batfinkV be an example of niceness to you, nrshida... like you use to be. :aok
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I like many variables... makes things fun and interesting.
Also much less danger of having that pesky ego cornered too eh? ;)
I've been flying my Spitfire MK VIII mostly. :aok
Okay, I'll put an hour or two in it and see you on the field Midway :salute
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Also much less danger of having that pesky ego cornered too eh? ;)
Okay, I'll put an hour or two in it and see you on the field Midway :salute
Off the mark again with that first comment. I wonder how many times one needs to be off the mark before delusion sets in. :headscratch:
See you in the MA. :salute
:)
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Off the mark again with that first comment. I wonder how many times one needs to be off the mark before delusion sets in. :headscratch:
Let's let the community decide.
See you in the MA. :salute
Oh boy, I hope you are looking forward to this as much as I am :banana:
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Please do, stand by though for the most withering rebuttal you will have ever encountered in your life and which Midway perceives as a logical argument:-
Midway > Changeup
That will never be Midway's logical argument...here's why:
Changeup in IX vs Midway in IX = Changeup 27 - Midway 1
Changeup in XVI vs Midway in XVI = Changeup 21 - Midway 2
Changeup in IX vs Midway in XVI = Changeup 9 - Midway 2
See, the reality and perception are equal in this case because I have video proof, as does Mr Signs (<>*!?)
Have a bandit day and should Mr Signs decide he'd like to have his arse handed to him AGAIN...he should feel free to ask.
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That will never be Midway's logical argument...here's why:
Changeup in IX vs Midway in IX = Changeup 27 - Midway 1
Changeup in XVI vs Midway in XVI = Changeup 21 - Midway 2
Changeup in IX vs Midway in XVI = Changeup 9 - Midway 2
See, the reality and perception are equal in this case because I have video proof, as does Mr Signs (<>*!?)
Have a bandit day and should Mr Signs decide he'd like to have his arse handed to him AGAIN...he should feel free to ask.
Changeup is a very good Spitfire pilot, that is true. :rock
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Midway are you currently muted in game? If not, please remain that way for this month, thank you.
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Midway are you currently muted in game? If not, please remain that way for this month, thank you.
Am. :frown:
...till Tuesday. :cry
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Am. :frown:
...till Tuesday. :cry
Tut. Haven't you got any self discipline? :old:
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Tut. Haven't you got any self discipline? :old:
I do... but admit, in Aces High, I do let my hair down a bit too often... all in fun though. :)
Since I play often and communicate often, I do get exposed to being reported much more frequently than those spending less time in game. I understand that. :frown:
It's ok, cause the flying and tanking parts bring great :banana: to my experience. :aok
I think I get better each month and that makes it a rewarding experience. :joystick:
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I think I get better each month...
It's funny that you think that, we'll find out soon if that's true :lol
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Off the mark again, as there is no "other self". I am just me, myself, and I -- the one and only self. To say there is another self is an oxymoron. :rolleyes:
A self is a self and can not be two selfs. :old:
To the community I offer this explanation of Midway/who for educational purposes only. It is not directed at him, so I will ignore his responses which will follow the pattern describe in this summary.
He is the creature from Startrek that feeds on there people's emotions [not the salt monster, that's different]
I don't think his psychosis is about being "Great", or the "best". Those are just methods used to troll the community to generate responses that feed his real psychosis, which needs the universe to revolve around him. It doesn't matter if what is being said is good or bad, just that it's all about him. His technique is to make aggrivating trolling statemens, but then when confronted with the ramifications of those statements, he passive-agressively back pedals into this Zen-master intelectual "consider your way" approach that is designed to transform him into the victim. This Zen approach is designed to make him seem approachable, and to fool people into thinking there is a part of him that can be reached, but it's just ruse to keep the game going.
All of this is evident in this thread, where he started off with "If it's red it's dead, and if anyone complains I ignore them" and after the expected flak, he transitioned into "I'm very courtious and always ask before jumping in", and then pretended the flak created by the first response was misplaced, because of the second response. All the while he is counting up the posts about him to satisfy his real affliction. His chooses negative attention simply because is so much easier to generate in this community, than praise. It's easier to talk trash to generate a thousand posts, than to generate them through achievement.
It is an affliction because it is mentally defective to seek attention of others at the cost of their happiness.
If you reply to him in an attept to win, correct, alter, or otherwise set right an injustice, you lose. The only win is not replying. The reply is fuel, silence is toxic to Midway, or grayclif and other such afflicted personallities.
This has been a public service announcement. :salute
Vinkman
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....
he transitioned into "I'm very courtious and always ask before jumping in"
...
Vinky, so many errors and so off the mark again. For example, the above is completely untrue. You quote me, yet I never said this. You're making it up as most of the rest of your evaluation and it's as fictitious as your Star Trek reference. :rolleyes:
Care to prove I actually said the above quote? :huh
I am just a somewhat humble pilot working hard to improve... and improve I have... as you know. :banana:
Your evaluation reminds me of how you say the internet stole your kills when I downed you on multiple occasions in my mighty Spitfire. Both of your conclusions/evaluations are off the mark. It's fighting skills that did it. :joystick:
When inaccuracies are presented, one's good name requires defending to set the record straight. :old:
<3 Vinky (whom allows me to call him Vinky per previous agreement resulting from a fight I won). :D
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I am just a somewhat humble pilot working hard to improve...
Lolz. Have you forgotten your bragging?
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Lolz. Have you forgotten your bragging?
Well, I did say "somewhat"... allowing for the situation where I occasionally state facts or best opinions, but others may disagree and call it bragging. :)
The fact is I am humbled often, by, for example, Bruv, Pervert, Redbull, batfinkV, etc. all excellent pilots. :salute
It's good being humbled by awesome pilots to maintain proper perspective. :old:
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Leave me out from this.
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Leave me out from this.
Done. :salute :rock
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The Grayclif will shoot down anyone, at anytime, whenever he chooses. This is my last warning.
The Grayclif hath spoke.
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First Midway posted this....to troll
To me it's very simple. In the MA, if they are red I'm going after them. If two people want a 1v1, then they should find an empty base or better yet go to the DA. :aok
...and get berated, on rare occasion, for jumping in. I ...ignore the rare berater. :)
..this implies he doesn't care what his country men think, if it's red he's going after it.Then added this... Just like in real life you sometimes have to ignore those that wish to disparage you. :old:
...in the usual pattern to seem like victim, and to seem Zen like in his response to being persecuted.
Then contradicted his first reply again with this...
Instead, I tend to follow the golden rule "Treat others as you would want them to treat you". :)
Implying he's very mindful of his opponents and country men's feelings.
Then added this....
If the 2nd is on my side and asks first, I will answer honestly...
...following the golden rule and respecting the decision of others never gets me upset and very often results in great fights...
Consider the golden rule to help in these matters. :old:
...to imply he communicates with teammates to make sure he is only doing what they want him to do, and is a good community advocate who uses the radio to make sure no bad feelings are generated, like a true Zen master.
I rest my case.
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The Grayclif will shoot down anyone, at anytime, whenever he chooses. This is my last warning.
The Grayclif hath spoke.
Yes, yes, we know. Let's get on with it already
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Yes, yes, we know. Let's get on with it already
If he wins, I'm givin him your iPad!!!
(Can I get some DA action prior to/after this little dust up?)
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If he wins, I'm givin him your iPad!!!
(Can I get some DA action prior to/after this little dust up?)
Yes. Tonight 11pm
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Yes. Tonight 11pm
I will try to be there, but might fly FSO.
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First Midway posted this....to troll
..this implies he doesn't care what his country men think, if it's red he's going after it.Then added this...
...in the usual pattern to seem like victim, and to seem Zen like in his response to being persecuted.
Then contradicted his first reply again with this...
Implying he's very mindful of his opponents and country men's feelings.
Then added this....
...to imply he communicates with teammates to make sure he is only doing what they want him to do, and is a good community advocate who uses the radio to make sure no bad feelings are generated, like a true Zen master.
I rest my case.
Vinky, off the mark again. :frown:
(1) I did not state that to troll. I stated it because it is my general approach and is truth.
(2) Do you not also sometimes ignore those that wish to disparage you? I stated truth.
(3) I do tend to treat others as I want to be treated. I expect others to generally take the red is dead approach as well. So, again, truth.
(4) if someone decides to jump in after I ask them not to, I respect their decision. Again, truth.
Truth is truth and I was/am being sincere and honest. :old:
Vinky is mistaken and misinterpreting again. :old:
The golden rule does tend to guide me. :old:
Vinky's rested case is flawed. :old:
:)
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I wonder how many times one needs to be off the mark before delusion sets in. :headscratch:
I think it's been pegged at less than 1:1 :ahand
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Asking before jumping in a 1v1 is good.
Asking to be left alone if you are in a 1v1 you want to stay that way is good.
Expecting either to happen or be honored in a furball consistently is unrealistic in the MA.
Getting upset about anything that happens in a video game is silly.
When flying against bigger numbers in a furball, generally its accepted that the idea is to clean out as many as possible to even it up. Still nice to ask, but often too busy to expect that to happen.
Everyone in the game has their own set of "rules" and there are too many versions to keep track of. The guy that never gangs might be fine spawn camping. The guy that picks a lot may never want help when he ends up turning in a 1v1, but might be HO'er at every chance. The guy that gangs, picks, HOs, bomb****s, camps, runs, stick stirs, and vulches is often the guy that complains about it the most.
One guy might have fun killing radar and ords, then running home unscathed to continue on some base taking plan. The next guy wants to dive into a sea of red and see how long he lasts. Fly and let fly.
I am digging this response. Kind of the thing I am thinking but couldn't find words for. Ultimately, I will salute a good fight. If not a good fight, no sense in honoring a pick.
Makes me crazy when I am in a great fight or a furball I am beginning to win only to get picked off. However, shame on me for bad SA. Or shame on me for the decision to engage in a fight I know I will eventually blow energy. Either way, it is a game designed for the masses.
Personally, if I see a 1 vs. 1 going on, I'll ask if help is needed. If I get a response, I honor the answer. If I don't get a response, I hover the fight until I see what the outcome is. If I see another enemy plane entering said 1 vs. 1, I will engage the first plane I think needs to die to set up the next fight, regardless of what the response to the question is because the changing environment of the fight at hand. But I also communicate that information with the common goal of getting both me and the friendly out of it alive to fight again in the same sortie.
I don't like helping someone out that asks for help only to get jumped while my scrubbing gets him out of the mess so he can extend while I usually die. I assume, that when I am asked to help, that plane is in it with me to the death, or the enemy's death. Too often, I help only to have helped that person escape to go land their 2 kills while I am left to deal with that plane plus his buddies trying to get in to help him. Though I do enjoy the practice and I learn a lot. I suppose I am used to flying with my squad in which we have the 3 to 7 second extend rule to keep applied pressure on said fight (part of our wingman training we do).
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Please don't ever ask me for permission to help me, just do it. I embrace team tactics, and I find it annoying when somebody is asking me questions while I'm trying to fight.
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The fact is I am humbled often, by, for example, Bruv, Pervert, Redbull, batfinkV, etc. all excellent pilots. :salute
:huh I fear am I getting close to midway's 'list' ... God help me :uhoh :bolt:
:noid
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:huh I fear am I getting close to midway's 'list' ... God help me :uhoh :bolt:
:noid
:lol FPH list.... No. :)
Only batfinkV, Yenny, and possibly TwinBoom would make it... if I were to expand it to ten FPHs. :cheers:
Ten is a good number since one can count them with ten fingers. :old:
Even the number system is based on base ten. :old:
A decision will come later this year. :old:
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:lol FPH list.... No. :)
Only batfinkV, Yenny, and possibly TwinBoom would make it... if I were to expand it to ten FPHs. :cheers:
Ten is a good number since one can count them with ten fingers. :old:
Even the number system is based on base ten. :old:
A decision will come later this year. :old:
Whew!
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:eek: :eek: :huh :huh :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :huh :huh :eek: :eek:
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You'll have plenty of etiquette RIGHT HERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343644.0/topicseen.html