Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TwinBoom on October 07, 2011, 07:43:30 PM
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The Battle of France
When the German offensive in the west began on 10 May 1940, GC I/3 was the only unit using the D.520. During the next month four more units converted to the D.520 (including G.C. III/6 on the Italian front). In combat the D.520 proved itself to be an equal to the Bf 109E – the only allied aircraft engaged in France that could really make that claim. In tests against a captured Bf 109E-3 the D.520 was found to be slightly slower but more manoeuvrable.
The five D.520 units scored 108 confirmed victories and 39 probable victories. The confirmed victories included 23 Bf 109s and 9 Bf 110s. In the same period 106 D.520s were lost, although only 26 of those were lost in air-to-air combat. If the D.520 had been available in larger numbers in May 1940 it may well have denied the Luftwaffe control of the air over the western front.
(http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/b/bg-d520.jpg)
Stats
Span: 33 feet 5.5 inches
Length: 28 feet 2 5/8 inches
Empty Weight: 4680.3 lbs
Full Weight: 5901 lbs
Engine: 820 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y45 12-cylinder liquid-cooled inline engine
Guns: One 20mm HS 404 cannon in engine hub, four 7.5mm MAC 1934 machine guns in wings
Speed: 331.8 mph at 18,044 ft
Ceiling: 34,450 ft
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We do need diversity on AH. More countries beside a U.S, Brit and Germany dominant equipment.
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Yes. :aok Cool photo as well.
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Sweet....a plane that is both axis and allied.
Nice plane and it has a pretty powerful cannon.
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+1
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+1
Would be nice to have for special events.
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+1
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wow! what a great looking plane! +1 on this!
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+1
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-1 it's french :aok
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We do need diversity on AH. More countries beside a U.S, Brit and Germany dominant equipment.
:salute in total agreement
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+1
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+1 without question.
:salute
Boo
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Sweet....a plane that is both axis and allied.
Nice plane and it has a pretty powerful cannon.
A: the D520 is a French plane and as such HTC would add it to their aircraft lineup as a French plane.
B: the 20mm cannon is a Hispano HS 404, which is the same 20mm Hispano Mk II that the British used (same 20mm Hispano already in AH). What most people do not know is that the 20mm Hispano cannon was designed jointly between a French and Swiss company, then sold the rights to other countries for their own use. :aok
I too agree that AH could use some French representation. Nothing better would fit in to AH than the D520! :salute The Spitfire Mk's I and V, and the 109E-4 and F-4 have nothing over the D520.
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let's do it! :aok
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I think this plane should have been added long ago, as it adds another country's plane. :aok
Likewise, Romanian/Hungarian country's would like the IAR80 81A-C rolled into 1 variant in the hanger.
So make the next plane update have the Boomerang, D520 and the IAR. Add 3 country's at once
Nice TB a Bulgarian D520 of 6 Orliak at Karlovo :lol
The 520 like the 109 went both ways,
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I think this plane should have been added long ago, as it adds another country's plane. :aok
Likewise, Romanian/Hungarian country's would like the IAR80 81A-C rolled into 1 variant in the hanger.
So make the next plane update have the Boomerang, D520 and the IAR. Add 3 country's at once
Nice TB a Bulgarian D520 of 6 Orliak at Karlovo :lol
The 520 like the 109 went both ways,
Yes I agree
Yes Bulgarian Paint figured it wouldn't catch as much flak as the french paint :cheers:
Could serve in several scenarios as allied or Axis
I think it would fit nice in the main arena
We also need the Boomerang and the IAR80 3 Country's in one update is Brilliant
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The D520 worried Operation Torch (Landings in North Africa Nov. 1942) planers.
The D520 is on my wish list as well.
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It can be given an Italian skin, a number of D.520s found their way into service with the Italian air force and one is credited with shooting down a B-24.
ack-ack
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Likewise, Romanian/Hungarian country's would like the IAR80 81A-C rolled into 1 variant in the hanger.
Sir.
Hungary had nothing common with Romania since theese two countries were enemies from birth. Possibly you dont about know the rivalry going on during the years of the ww2. Hungary never used IARs.
Still, i wouldnt mind that aircraft, but im afraid it would be a hangar queen: early war performance in the mid-war era.
The D-520 would be a real decent addition to the EW planeset, along with the missing italian/russian rides. Im curious about its performance vs the spit1
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The D-520 would be a real decent addition to the EW planeset, along with the missing italian/russian rides. Im curious about its performance vs the spit1
Every report ive seen says it easily out turns the 109 but the 109 can use its vertical fight.
So this being said I would think it would do very well vs Spit 1`s but ill research it.
Edit found this info on The 109 from a french pilot
http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/03/d520-vs-me-109-e-battle-of-france.html (http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/03/d520-vs-me-109-e-battle-of-france.html)
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+1 because we need FRENCH WARPLANES! :D
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Every report ive seen says it easily out turns the 109 but the 109 can use its vertical fight.
So this being said I would think it would do very well vs Spit 1`s but ill research it.
Edit found this info on The 109 from a french pilot
http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/03/d520-vs-me-109-e-battle-of-france.html (http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/03/d520-vs-me-109-e-battle-of-france.html)
:salute that was an intersting read. did he ever find out what happened to that 109? or did the 109 auger? thanks for the post.
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Possibly you dont about know the rivalry going on during the years of the ww2. Hungary never used IARs.
Possible,
I don't think I would bet on it if I were you.
I did not say Hungary or Romania.
I was speaking in terms of today's world and the people in those areas as the lines have been redrawn and things have changed quite a bit since WW2. The reason to add a new country's plane, obviously, would be to attract new customers.
I am unaware of any Hungarian designed and built planes in WW2. A couple more Italian planes wouldn't hurt tho.
Then
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Rom1942.png)
Now
(http://www.freeusandworldmaps.com/images/Countries_Maps/EuropeanCountries/Romania_Map_Europe.jpg)
#54,
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So make the next plane update have the Boomerang, D520 and the IAR. Add 3 country's at once
I'd rather not wait a year for an update :noid
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+1 again.
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-1 it's french :aok
you got a problem with us french?
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+1 for the IAR aswell! I know I will fly it! :D
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you got a problem with us french?
Either you got trolled hard or a troll trolling a troll.
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you got a problem with us french?
:rofl
+1 for the d520 as long as it gets the white skin!
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:rofl
+1 for the d520 as long as it gets the white skin!
Did you notice you are the only one laughing. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
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I'm all for this planes inclusion. The more variety for scenerio's snapshots, SSO and AVA the bettter off we'll be I think.
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I'm laughing because I'm a bloody french troll :D
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+1, would be great to have a French plane in AH.
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Awesome, more the merrier. There's a lot of excellent planes not in the game still.
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+1
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Did you notice you are the only one laughing. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
SirNuke is french but lets keep this on track
im the new bar321 for the D520 :neener:
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+1 was a great nice plane!
Sweet....a plane that is both axis and allied.
The Macchi 202 and Macchi 205 where in both side after 8 september 1943... :D
(also if i dont like it so much.... but is only my thought... :noid)
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+1
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If 7.5mm cannons are 303's, It is worse than Spit 1. So, -1/ +1 We need Beaufighter more'n D.520, It is handsome cuz Beau means Handsome And fighter means Fighter so Bristol HandsomeFighter
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If 7.5mm cannons are 303's, It is worse than Spit 1. So, -1/ +1 We need Beaufighter more'n D.520, It is handsome cuz Beau means Handsome And fighter means Fighter so Bristol HandsomeFighter
umm nice hijack
but u fail it has 1 20mm same as mk5 spits cannon an 4 7.5mm wich is decent fire power d520 is a fighter bue is an attack aircraft
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Would be nice to get a plane like this in the update without even knowing about, like a surprise :eek:
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(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/stranieri/devotine520.jpg)
(http://lazycatarts.com/forMUG/ItalianD520Red2of82Sqadriglia13Grup.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions3/D520_12f.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions3/D520_4f.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bmpLSJwqSdw/TjKfuL--x_I/AAAAAAAADIY/4IGNS7jpB9U/s1600/d520.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions3/d520-13f.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions4/D520-35af.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions3/d520-004f+.jpg)
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that yak has a nose problem :D
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yayyyy she made the list come onnnnnnn D.520
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yayyyy she made the list come onnnnnnn D.520
gogogo! I doubt it makes it but stuff can happen!
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I think the 520 would be a great addition.
The Germans even finished some that were waiting on props when they took france.
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I think the 520 would be a great addition.
The Germans even finished some that were waiting on props when they took france.
Italians flew them in combat, one scoring a kill on a B-24 over Italy.
ack-ack
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Italians flew them in combat, one scoring a kill on a B-24 over Italy.
ack-ack
Yes TB put up 3 pictures of them #2,14 and 20 :aok
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(http://www.guerresmondiales.fr/IMG/jpg/D520-2.jpg)
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That is...... freakishly..... HUGE!
Wowzers! In pictures you don't get a good idea of scale. I thought it was along the lines of a LaGG-3 or something. Seeing those people standing next to it.... well it's startling to say the least!
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(http://www.guerresmondiales.fr/IMG/jpg/D520-2.jpg)
:O :O
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atcually they are just small people
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(http://www.guerresmondiales.fr/IMG/jpg/D520-2.jpg)
That was traning plane in Lebanon, here is the field.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/Rayack.jpg)
I wonder how many of the D520's we can find.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/Rayack2.jpg)
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image021.jpg)
Here is a good page on GCIII/6 <translated from French>
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bibert.fr%2FJoseph_Bibert_fichiers%2FDepart_Levant.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bibert.fr%2FJoseph_Bibert_fichiers%2FDepart_Levant.htm)
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(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/170/c/9/Dewoitine_d520_n2_by_QuentinR.jpg)
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(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/170/c/9/Dewoitine_d520_n2_by_QuentinR.jpg)
thanks man I have that as my wallpaper now
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someday I will get my a** off my chair and go to the museum to take picks of a real D520
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Pierre LE GLOAN is known in the battle of France because in one single mission, totally alone he destroyed 5 italian planes (4 CR.42 and 1 BR.20) with his D.520.
18 confirmed kills (the German planes with a MS.406 and the others with a D.520) :
2 Do17
2 He 111
3 BR.20
4 CR.42
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6 Hurricane MkII
1 Gladiator
British planes were downed after the battle of France, in 1941 in Liban and Syria while serving in the Vichy Air Force and protecting his airfield.
(http://aerostories.free.fr/pil_cha_fr/legloan/legloan01.JPG)
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(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/170/d/d/Dewoitine_d520_by_QuentinR.jpg)
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that Emil is looking GOOOOOD!
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:salute did all french planes stencil what kind of plane it was on the rudders?
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that Emil is looking GOOOOOD!
I get it, Emil Dewotine :lol
Good 1,
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I get it, Emil Dewotine :lol
Good 1,
just caught that but didnt he use an e?
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100712001612/military/images/thumb/d/d7/D520_3v.jpg/709px-D520_3v.jpg)
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:salute did all french planes stencil what kind of plane it was on the rudders?
the Lorraine cross you mean?
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I think they were really diddy little Frenchmen in Twinboom's picture (Reply #49) they had one of these in my local model shop and it's actually smaller than a Spitfire.
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just caught that but didnt he use an e?
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100712001612/military/images/thumb/d/d7/D520_3v.jpg/709px-D520_3v.jpg)
Yes 2 E's 1 with a dash on top :)
Émile Dewoitine
(http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4199/dewoitine8qx.jpg)
When Emile Dewoitine designed a new fighter to meet the French Air Ministry Programme A23, which in its revised form called for a maximum speed of 520km/h, he was inspired to give it the designation D.520.
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(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions1/D520-2.jpg)
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(http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/large/307/307329.jpg)
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(http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/large/307/307329.jpg)
looks like the one from the Bourget museum, I'll go get picture of it eventually.
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You need to get out more SirNuke :old:
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You need to get out more SirNuke :old:
I was at the london RAF museum this week end...Le bourget is too close for me, about 10km :)
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(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/7/2/1472277.jpg)
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the Lorraine cross you mean?
:salute well no, most of the pictures i have seen on this tread was the d 520 on the rudder. was it just these few planes or did it depend on the unit? lol i havent seen any other nation stencil the type of plane on the rudders. unless it was for show or something like that. just wondered.
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:salute well no, most of the pictures i have seen on this tread was the d 520 on the rudder. was it just these few planes or did it depend on the unit? lol i havent seen any other nation stencil the type of plane on the rudders. unless it was for show or something like that. just wondered.
they probably got annoyed people kept thinking it was a Spit.
Oh +1 btw
looks like it could give an emil a bloody nose :aok
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Ya i agree, the emil is a dog.
Btw it look better than a spit :neener:
i would be happy with this +1
but still, russian and japaneese planes too plz!
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/user4470_pic112556_1284949545.jpg)
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I too agree that AH could use some French representation. Nothing better would fit in to AH than the D520!
In a game that includes the Brewster Buffalo, the C 202, and the I-16 there is definately a place for the D-520. LIKE THOSE PLANES - it's not going to see a LOT of use, that's a given, but it WILL add to the game in other ways. Vive las France ! :rock
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DeWoitine D.520 Fighter
The DeWoitine D.520 is generally held to be the best French fighter of World War II. Utilizing an Hispano-Suiza 12-cylinder powerplant producing 930 PS (916 HP) for takeoff, this fighter -- although substantially slower than the Me 109s it was opposing -- proved very capable in a turning and diving fight. The D.520 packed a serious punch in the form of 4 7.5 mm machine guns and a single 20 mm cannon firing through the propeller hub. It was very agile and dove well, with well-harmonized controls that were light to the touch. An experience pilot could get on an enemy's tail very quickly if his opponent did not take appropriate evasive action. However, once out of diving altitude, the D.520 could be run down fairly easily by the German Messerschmitts, and then had to rely on its agility to jink and roll its way out of trouble. Overall, the D.520 was an excellent, if underpowered, fighter that gave a good accounting of itself in the short time allotted to it during the Battle of France. Once the Germans took over the French air industry, the type was relegated to trainer status and saw service in a variety of arenas until war's end.
Pilot Comments:
"The D.520 is a very agile aircraft that dives well. It can handle 400+ mph dives without any problem and has good control response until well past the recommending diving speed of 413 mph IAS. Use this aircraft's light weight and responsive controls to maneuver behind your opponent, where you can use the D.520s substantial firepower to down him. But don't take the fight too low, or you'll run out of altitude and won't be able to dive away to fight another day."
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ABBREVIATED CHECKLIST
TAKEOFF (5568 lbs.)
Flaps: Up
Elevator trim: 0%
Rudder trim: +40%
Aileron trim: +35%
Apply power smoothly to 34" Hg (88%)
Liftoff speed: 115 mph (185 kph) IAS
Takeoff roll: 20 seconds
Note: This aircraft has a substantial amount of torque roll; although the stall speed is quite low at 85 mph, and the craft will want to lift off sooner, hold the nose down and let flying speed build to at least 115 mph where the runway length allows. This will allow you to gain aileron authority so as to minimize the roll when the aircraft lifts off. A good deal of right rudder and aileron will be needed until climbing speed is reached.
CLIMBING
Initial Climb: 2,500 fpm (12.5 m/s) at full power/2400 rpm/145 mph IAS.
Normal Climb: 145 mph (235 kph) IAS @ 34" hg/2200 rpm.
Rate of climb @ climb power: 2262 fpm (11.3 m/s)
LANDING (5059 lbs.)
This aircraft tends to float in ground effect so the landing touchdown speed is very important to a short ground roll. It is also very sloppy in slow flight so a deft hand at the controls is critical.
Gear extension: 150 mph/242 kph IAS
Flap extension: 150 mph/242 kph IAS
Full flaps at 140 mph/225 kph IAS
Approach speed: 115 mph/185 kph IAS
Over airfield boundary: 105 mph/169 kph IAS
Touchdown at 90 mph/145 kph IAS
Firepower Certified Specifications:
Normal takeoff/test weight: 5568 pounds
Top Speed @ SL: 264 mph TAS
Top Speed @ Alt: 329 mph TAS @ 19,700 feet
Max Cruise @ SL: 241 mph IAS/240 mph TAS @ 30" hg/2000 rpm
Max Cruise @ 19,685 ft: 223 mph IAS/299 mph TAS @ 30" hg/2000 rpm
Normal Cruise @ 19,685 ft: 170 mph IAS/230 mph TAS @ 30" hg/2000 rpm
Climb: 5.8 minutes to 19,685 ft @ 34" hg/2200 rpm/145 mph IAS
Initial climb: 2,500 fpm @ 37.8" hg/2400 rpm/145 mph IAS
Fuel to climb: 8 gallons
1 g stall speed, clean: 85 mph IAS (5568 lbs)
1 g stall speed, landing: 69 mph IAS (5568 lbs)
1 g stall speed, clean: 82 mph IAS (5059 lbs)
1 g stall speed, landing: 62 mph IAS (5059 lbs)
Slow flight: very sloppy at high angles of attack; sensitive to power changes.
Stall: severe wing drop and roll; spin incipient, prompt recovery required.
Takeoff (no flaps): Liftoff speed 115 mph IAS (185 kph)
Ramp weight: 4578 pounds
Max takeoff wt: 6129 pounds
Roll rate: Approx. 180 deg/sec at 250 mph IAS.
Turning rate, in g: Approx. 6.5 g at 250 mph in a level turn.
High speed dives: Controls will freeze/reverse at approx. 550 mph IAS
Vmax: 413 mph IAS (665 kph/369 kts)
Dive brakes: None
Combat Flaps: Yes
To Gear down: moderate pitch down
To Flaps down: moderate pitch up
Engine: Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 inline liquid-cooled V-12
Takeoff power: 930 PS (916 HP) @ 37.8" hg/2400 RPM
Climb (rated) power: 850 PS (837 HP) @ 34.6" hg/2200 RPM
Max cruise power: 670 PS (660 HP) @ 30" hg/2000 RPM
Fuel capacity: 104.5 gallons
Fuel consumption at max cruise: 55 gph @ sea level
Service Ceiling: 34,450 feet
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520II-18GC.jpg)
Re captured II/18 GC 44-45
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you guys think a griffon would fit in such a long nose? :bolt:
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you guys think a griffon would fit in such a long nose? :bolt:
Ya, with a fuel duration of 10 minutes :lol
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It's not a long nose, it's the same length as a Spitfire Mark I (roughly), it just has a short arse so it's deceptive. A short arse, like SirNuke :neener: :bolt:
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It's not a long nose, it's the same length as a Spitfire Mark I (roughly), it just has a short arse so it's deceptive. A short arse, like SirNuke :neener: :bolt:
I think you've got me mistaken with bruv....I'm 6 feet tall! :furious
I'm tinkering with the idea of creating a french squad :headscratch:
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I think you've got me mistaken with bruv....I'm 6 feet tall! :furious
I'm tinkering with the idea of creating a french squad :headscratch:
you might need to if Bruv sees that comment on his height ;D
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you might need to if Bruv sees that comment on his height ;D
I'm sure you can't wait to report me :P
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you also posted in the Top Gun thread again, that's two strikes :neener:
you're in the hurt locker now sweet pea
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I think you've got me mistaken with bruv....I'm 6 feet tall! :furious
I'm tinkering with the idea of creating a french squad :headscratch:
No Nuke, you just look 6ft tall because of your abnormally long fuselage, it's an optical illusion :lol
How many strikes do I have now?
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No Nuke, you just look 6ft tall because of your abnormally long fuselage
(http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/browsmiley.gif)
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No Nuke, you just look 6ft tall because of your abnormally long fuselage, it's an optical illusion :lol
That's why they say the french make the best lovers :D
Lets stop hijacking this thread or TwinBoom will get mad at us :angel:
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:lol
Dewoitine D.520 +1 :aok
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlK38XwP0o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlK38XwP0o&feature=related)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlK38XwP0o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlK38XwP0o&feature=related)
:lol I wonder where TankerDweeb is ...chastising you for the Bump :rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpilvRFPl7E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpilvRFPl7E)
Only likes my leg,
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+1 for the aircraft and also for adding countries to the game. :salute
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+1 for the aircraft and also for adding countries to the game. :salute
+1
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(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1986/bhzplz.jpg)
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it will never win a vote, but I agree it should be added.
It will take initiative from the gods that roam higher then 50k
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it will never win a vote, but I agree it should be added.
It will take initiative from the gods that roam higher then 50k
I thought the M18 would never make it in too
Good bird all around a new country to boot
also need the boomerang and the I.A.R. 80/81
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/Sy0broX6s4I/AAAAAAAAALc/4G2KaMOoUaM/s1600/D520part2.jpg)
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so much an elegant plane, it definiately has place in AH
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I thought the M18 would never make it in too
Good bird all around a new country to boot
also need the boomerang and the I.A.R. 80/81
Its a tough choice, I'm a big fan of the early war birds, I would have a tough time choosing the IAR 81 or D.520.
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Its a tough choice, I'm a big fan of the early war birds, I would have a tough time choosing the IAR 81 or D.520.
That's why we need to add 3 countries at once to the game. :bhead
D520... adds France
Boomerang.... adds Australia
IAR 80/81...... Romania
Boom,
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we need to add 3 countries at once to the game. - D520... adds France Boomerang.... adds Australia IAR 80/81...... Romania
So does HT need to expand the COUNTRIES roster +3 or can we just list them together as -Those other guys- ? Shall we toss the Brewster in there too just to make it look more substantial? How about anytime you select one of them confetti falls and that country's national anthem is played? Oooops, does everyone have to STAND UP for that? -Never Mind-
:rolleyes:
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See Rule #4
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So does HT need to expand the COUNTRIES roster +3 or can we just list them together as -Those other guys- ?
You mean the other countries that don't have a spot in this game.
Shall we toss the Brewster in there too just to make it look more substantial?
Yes...It would be great to have a proper Buffalo in the game!
How about anytime you select one of them confetti falls and that country's national anthem is played?
Who knows...it might make you might feel like a star for a short moment...wouldn't that be wonder for you?
:rolleyes:,
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(http://www.flyandrive.com/images/dewoitine_legloan/poster_legloan.jpg)
Dewoitine ace Pierre Le Gloan
"Pierre Le Gloan was one of those men who had a natural talent for flying. Having gained his wings in 1932 at the age of 19, by the outbreak of war he was an Adjutant-chef in the 5eme Escadrille of Groupe de Chasse III/6, Flying Morane-Saultier MS.406C-1 fighters from Chartres, as part of the air defence of Paris and the lower Seine.
On the 23 November 1939, le Gloan and another pilot successfully shot down a Dornier near Verdun on his first contact with the enemy. A second Dornier fell to his guns on the 2nd March 1940, and during the Battle of France he accounted for two Heinkel He IIIs before his squadron was transferred to Luc in the South of France re-equipping with the superb Dewoitine D.520 to counter the impending Italian invasion.
On the 13 June 1940 Le Gloan shared two Fiat BR20 bombers, and two days later when a large force of Italian bombers were reported in the area, he led the mission that was to make his name famous.
Flying D.520 ("No.277") the patrol soon encountered a force of bombers escorted by Fiat CR42 fighters. With his usual aggressiveness, Le Gloan led the other French pilots into the attack. Within 45 minutes Le Gloan had shot down four CR42 fighters (two shared) and a BR20.
A record of five kills in a single mission led to his immediate promotion to Sous Lieutenant.
After the fall of France GC III/6, as part of the Vichy air-force, he was sent to Algiers, and from there to the Lebanon where Le Gloan continued to knock up his victories (but this time against France's former Ally-England). By 5th July 1941 Le Gloan's total had reached 18, including five RAF Hurricanes and a Gladiator. On the 9th September 1941, Le Gloan was promoted to Lieutenant when GC III/6 returned to North Africa. During the "Torch" landings in November 1941 bad weather kept the D.520s on the ground until after the Vichy surrender.
The surviving Vichy pilots were transferred to the Free French and Le Gloan became the Commander of 3eme Escadrille "Rousillon" on 11 August 1943 equipped with Bell P39N Airacobras engaged in coastal patrols. On such a patrol on the 11th September his wingman spotted that Le Gloan's aircraft was emitting black smoke.
Soon the faulty engine failed completely, and Le Gloan attempted to glide to a belly landing on the water. Unfortunately his drop tank failed to release and as the aircraft touched down it exploded in a fireball from which the gallant ace had no hope of escape."
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Given that all you seem to want is post war or what if wonderplanes, I really don't think you're opinion counts for squat.
Hey something we agree on Karnak! Cheers! I am all for country pride, I'm glad someone did the 109 in a Hungarian skin, and hopefully the 410.
/Might be German, but flew with a Hungarian colors!
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/Sy0broX6s4I/AAAAAAAAALc/4G2KaMOoUaM/s1600/D520part2.jpg)
So can ANYONE else spot the American in this bunch?
:lol
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fhZZ63PRjhQ/Sy0broX6s4I/AAAAAAAAALc/4G2KaMOoUaM/s1600/D520part2.jpg)
So can ANYONE else spot the American in this bunch?
:lol
The plane is before 1946, why would you care?
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Marcel Albert over Algeria
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520marcelalbert.jpg)
over Tunisia
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520marcelalbert2tunisia.jpg)
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Count me in for the Dewo.
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(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions1/D520-2.jpg)
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Never saw this thread before.... and helllllyesssss!! :aok :aok
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+1
after my B-26 gets updated :noid
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My old 3D model...
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/948/trd52010de7.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1728/trd52021dl3.png)
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+1 with Nuke's stinky cheese in the back. :aok
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(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions1/D520-2.jpg)
Ummm :headscratch: :uhoh :old: :neener:
where have I seen this before :bolt:
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nice kazan is that a 3d game mod?
Ummm :headscratch: :uhoh :old: :neener:
where have I seen this before :bolt:
i know shameless bump :aok and bump again :devil
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(http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Aftermarket/WW2/ContactResine/dewo_correction_set/d520cockpit.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/D.520_Le_Bourget_Cckpit01.jpg/800px-D.520_Le_Bourget_Cckpit01.jpg)
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d.520 is a yes from me also , its a shame the french never produced no more than 35 , before hitler hit poland , as the 109 may have had a job to keep up +1 for me :salute
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My old 3D model...
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/948/trd52010de7.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1728/trd52021dl3.png)
nice kazan is that a 3d game mod?
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no, it is my first step in 3d max
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no, it is my first step in 3d max
kool its looking good
http://youtu.be/8hAsXUVzXlI (http://youtu.be/8hAsXUVzXlI)
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I flew the DEWO in WW2OL. It dives and rolls like the dickens and was very competative in its time frame, as in WW2OL tiers. In AH, in the main, it would be far less so going against the fighters from '43 on. But in '39 and '40 it was a force to be reckoned with. That 20mm gun in the center was fearsome.
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I voted 6 times on the D.520, it must be added to the game now.
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I voted 6 times on the D.520, it must be added to the game now.
:rofl :cheers:
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:rofl :cheers:
Lets say we band together, pool some money and bribe a few bottles to Dale, our plan can work - we just get him plastered then present all the data to the 520, print outs and everything. With enough veteran players to present the info he can't say no....
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Lets say we band together, pool some money and bribe a few bottles to Dale, our plan can work - we just get him plastered then present all the data to the 520, print outs and everything. With enough veteran players to present the info he can't say no....
I can send some premium cheese. I doubt it crosses the border tho, will be classified as explosive.
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Adding the D520 would be a very good thing. :aok I've always been a proponent of adding it. :)
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+1 !!!!! 4 mg and 1 cannon just like that 38 :)
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Dewoitine D.520
Plane: Dewoitine D.520
Mass: 2675kg
Engine: 930hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45
Horsepower: 960hp max brake horsepower
Wing Area: 16.0 meters^2
Weapons:
Name RoF Duration Muzzle Velocity Ammo
Primary Trigger: 4x7.5mm MAC 1934 MG 16.6/s 30.1s 830m/s 500 each
Secondary Trigger1x20mm
Hispano-Suiza 404 Cannon 12/s 5.0s 880m/s 60
Ammo Belting:
7.5mm MG: ap, ap, ap, ap, tracer
Hispano Suiza 404: he, he, he, he, tracer
Stall Speed: 135kph clean/123kph dirty
Best Climb Speed IAS: 216kph IAS
Maximum Reasonable AoA: 12.0 degrees
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/558/d520h2.gif)
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8307/d520h4.gif)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1156/d520h6.gif)
Turn Rate: (sustained) Flaps Up: 220kph, 130m radius, 27 deg/sec
Turn Rate: (sustained) Flaps Down: 200kph, 115m radius, 27 deg/sec
Visibility: Good, except for behind view, and a rather thick bar directly above.
Control Feel vs Speed: Excellent at all speeds
WEP power boost percent: 8%
Safe WEP time: Greater than 10 minutes
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now I know why they called it manoeuvrable! damn! I didn't know it had such a roll rate.
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That is a very impressive roll rate. Put that along side the Spitfire Mk Ia and Bf109E-4....
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Roll rate? Believe what you want but I call that wishful thinking. :D
-C+
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170 degrees per second does seem rather high. Are you sure that's with both wings attached? (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/stirpot.gif)
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don't underestimate french engineering :P
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I wouldn't dare! I like the Citroen C6 :banana:
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Poor French ace, switched to the P-39 and American engineering killed him :angel:
+1 for the De.520 and as an aside, with all the pretty pictures and graphs this should be the new standard for an aircraft request threads :rock
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(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6127/d5202bulgariaf.jpg)
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2403/d520017.jpg)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/811/d52093f.jpg)
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5733/d52095f.jpg)
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/42/d52096f.jpg)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/700/d520cockpit1f.jpg)
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2666/d520cockpit2f.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6540/d520cockpit3f.jpg)
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Specific Matchup Comments:
D520 vs Bf109E: This is the most common matchup, because once the Bf109F comes out, the H81 is usually available as well. You have several disadvantages vs the Bf109E, and two advantages. The disadvantages are speed and climb, while your advantages are high speed rolling capability and turning ability. It is best to engage 109s with an altitude advantage, and failing that, get into a turnfight with them. If the 109 turns with you, smile, as you'll soon get on his six. Keep in mind that your rolling advantage applies to high-speed flight only, once slow, the 109E can roll just as good as you.
D520 vs Bf109F: The F model made the 109 much more dangerous. Now the plane has plenty of cannon ammo, climbs faster, flies a whopping 70kph faster on the deck, and turns better than the 109E. Use anti-109 tactics mentioned above, but be more careful, as the 109F can easily stick his nose in the sky and yoyo you to death.
D520 vs Fw190a5: Be very careful with this plane. It has a 115kph speed advantage over you on the deck, outclimbs you by a large margin under 3km, and can dive like a brick. Try to keep your fights above 3km, better yet, try not to fight these beasts at all. However, if you find a 190 down low and slow, smile, as the pilot probably doesn't know what he's doing, and will soon end up as a kill sticker on the side of your plane.
The D.520 remained in use after the Armistice. The German armistice commission allowed the Vichy air force to use the D.520 in Africa. The Germans even placed an order for 550 D.520s themselves (349 were produced between August 1941 and December 1942), using them as training aircraft. Some of these aircraft were sent to equip Vichy squadrons in Syria, where they saw action against the Allies in the summer of 1941. In this campaign the D.520 claimed 30 victories for the loss of 32 D.520s.
The D.520 had one last chance to fight the Germans after the Allied invasion of southern France in August 1944. Within days of the Allied landing the French Forces of the Interior formed a fighter group (Premier Groupe de Chasse FFI) which fought alongside the allies in southern France, using D.520s recaptured from the Germans, before being absorbed into the re-formed French Air Force on 1 December 1944. This fighter group used the D.520 from August 1944 to March 1945. By now the D.520 was effectively obsolete, but the Luftwaffe had been swept from the skies of southern France by Allied air power, and so the D.520 was able to play a role in the mopping up operations in south west France.
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I'd vote on the D.520 over anything else right now.
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There is nothing i can bring up against this aircraft. :aok
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There is nothing i can bring up against this aircraft. :aok
How can ya? Its such a beautiful looking airplane that simply did not get enough credit - I hear more about "spitfires over france" then I do D.520.
While most of france surrendered, this plane and its pilot continued to fight (bad joke I know).
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How can ya? Its such a beautiful looking airplane that simply did not get enough credit - I hear more about "spitfires over france" then I do D.520.
While most of france surrendered, this plane and its pilot continued to fight (bad joke I know).
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6018/5918692666_c86ac579a3_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6011/5918130837_6d59f65a45_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6023/5925380155_cd056f6c28_b.jpg)
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4bs7xEleW1r96vwjo1_1280.jpg)
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+1 to this idea, but if you comlpained about the Dora and it's glass radiator.... ~50% of fuselage hits may result in an oil hit and/or radiator hit, and the pilot wounds from the rear I think will be brutal.
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+1 to this idea, but if you comlpained about the Dora and it's glass radiator.... ~50% of fuselage hits may result in an oil hit and/or radiator hit, and the pilot wounds from the rear I think will be brutal.
Its fairly small and nimble though
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Its fairly small and nimble though
An advantage, for sure... but so's a Storch.
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An advantage, for sure... but so's a Storch.
Its one reason I fly the Yak 9 so much, it seems to be nearly impossible to hit unless you get a lucky HO shot on it.
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There's plenty negative to comment about it.
First of all, it arrived too late to play a real part of the Battle of France. It's role as a low-tier German capture plane was minimal. It did see some use in the deserts of Africa, but so did so many other planes that it is still a minority. It's role as a Free French plane was merely a footnote in history. Overall it would only fit in a Afrika Corps setting, where other planes (Italians/Germans) would be far more important.
People like to latch onto it as an example of French aviation, but let's be honest -- the Moraine Saulnier M.S. 406 was the front line fighter for the French, along with lend-lease Hawks and the like. If you want what the French had -- The M.S. 406 is key. The 520 wasn't even satisfactory enough for combat until April 1940 -- 1 month before German invaded. They had only 75 accepted at the time, the rest sent back for retrofitting of improvements because they were unsatisfactory. That means that only one group with 36 planes was operational to meet the Germans in the air. They scrambled to re-equip 4 more groups in the short span before France surrendered at the beginning of June, 1940. As far as the fighting goes, I'm not going to pretend it didn't see any -- but it was a very small minority of the main fighter force of France.
It's about as representative as the Ta-152C is to the Fw190 line. Nice to have? Maybe... But not representative nor very important as far as history goes. It's like the Meteor: People focus on it because it was the most advanced of its time (regardless of what actual impact it had on the war).
As far as all the claims that this was such a perfect fighter? It wasn't. quite...
A quick and dirty copy/paste:
Although employing a modern design philosophy for its time, the D.520 was considered more difficult to fly than the older MS.406. Capt. Eric Brown, commanding officer of the Royal Aircraft Establishment's Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight, tested the D.520 at RAE Farnborough, saying that “It was a nasty little brute. Looked beautiful but didn’t fly beautifully. Once you get it on the ground, I was told not to leave the controls until it was in the hangar and the engine stopped. You could be taxiing toward the hangar and sit back when suddenly it would go in a right angle."
...
In comparative trials on 21 April 1940 at CEMA at Orleans-Bricy against a captured Bf 109E-3, the German aircraft had a 32 km/h (20 mph) speed advantage owing to its more powerful engine. However, the D.520 had superior maneuverability, matching its turning circle, although displaying nasty characteristics when departing and spinning out of the turn repeatedly during the tests. The Bf 109, owing to its slats, could easily sustain the turn on the edge of a stall.
There's also commentary that the fuselage fuel tank was exactly at the center of gravity so it made little difference how much fuel was in there, but the wing tanks would throw it into highly unstable flight characteristics.
Alternative suggestions I'd make instead (not before) the D.520:
Batle of France era:
M.s. 405
P-36 or Hawk export variant
C.200
Cr.42 (even so obsolete and being phased out before this time)
Gloster Gladiator
Hurr Mk.I (early model with 2 blade prop)
Afrika Corps era:
Hs 123
bf110C-6 and/or bf110e-1
bf109e7 (trop)
ju-52 (played a big part)
sm.79
All of those were vastly more important in the same time frames and the same theaters as the D.520 was. It's like wanting the F.22 -- best of the best, but very little use and in small numbers.
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Haters gonna hate, Krusty.
Reading the earlyer posts in this topic, just seen the charts TB posted. Just to place this aircraft, it would be a little bit faste than the 110C, also would roll with a 190. Nice and everything, but... are you sure in the 27 degrees per second turn rate? Withouth flaps that would be around the hurri1/a6m5, but with them, better than an a6m2 or a brewster... pretty sick.
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It's necessary for the early war planeset.
It has a HS404 cannon.
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+1 for french aircraft very sexy reminds of my p40 lol
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(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6458/d20r.jpg)
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The Dewoitine D.520 also battled against the British and Americans in North Africa.
+1
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Again +1 for a nice Emil vs D520 fight
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a few early fighters, drop in a he111, mix a bit, and you have a nice early war setup :aok :rock
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520494.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520feb1940-1.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520linedrawingjpg.jpg)
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(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/7/2/1472277.jpg)
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page1.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page2.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page3.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page4.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page5.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page6.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520page7.jpg)
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great country and skin choice add it now please :rock
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How can ya? Its such a beautiful looking airplane that simply did not get enough credit - I hear more about "spitfires over france" then I do D.520.
While most of france surrendered, this plane and its pilot continued to fight (bad joke I know).
It was beautiful. And you hear more about spits over France because there were more Spitfires over France!
I say put it in the game as soon as possible, skinned as Vichy. That would be a pleasure to shoot at :joystick:
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:salute i still think we should have this plane in the invantory. france should be represented. likem or not. :cheers:
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It would sure fill up some nice holes in Special Events. :D
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It would sure fill up some nice holes in Special Events. :D
Uh... no. No it wouldn't. The holes can only be filled with planes other than the Dewoitine.
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Uh... no. No it wouldn't. The holes can only be filled with planes other than the Dewoitine.
Used by the French during the Battle of France. Flown by Vichy pilots in combat over Syria and during Operation Torch.
Flown in combat by Regia Aeronautica pilots as well as by Bulgarian pilots. I guess it depends on what hole your looking at..
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Used by the French during the Battle of France. Flown by Vichy pilots in combat over Syria and during Operation Torch.
Flown in combat by Regia Aeronautica pilots as well as by Bulgarian pilots. I guess it depends on what hole your looking at..
pay krusty no mind he knows not of what he speaks he thinks france didnt participate in the war :ahand
BRING ON THE D520 :cheers:
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Uh... no. No it wouldn't. The holes can only be filled with planes other than the Dewoitine.
What other plane in the planeset could sub for the D.520 for a Battle for France scenario? Or stand in for the D.520 for an Operation Torch scenario or one involving actions in Syria or Palestine area?
ack-ack
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Giving France the Hawk it would simply be out classed period - D.520 is a fine example of a Late Poney war aircraft alongside the Hurricane - if you want to throw in a twist has kate torpedo planes act as Fairey Battles.
D.520 should of been added in Aces high along with He-111, for historical value alone.
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520freefrench.jpg)
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must have took some guts to fly these in '44
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Wouldnt be half as bad in the LW. It could turn well, also had a potent, hub-mounted 20mm cannon, it would be 10 times more competitive than the Ki-43.
Its a very nice, elegant aircraft.
:aok
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520memorial-2.jpg)
How true,
:salute
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Little info..... the D 520 was named for the speed requirement, in knots, the French Airforce had in their requirement they issued.
Due to the government run businesses they had trouble having all parts at the right place in a timely manner. Many complete airframes sat waiting on engines or props when France fell.
I feel it would make a nice addition to the game.
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I would love to see this one win the next poll. even if to just fill a spot in scenerions and FSO or to add something other than US, Russian, Japanese or English iron
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520memorial-2.jpg)
How true,
:salute
True they deserve way more respect than they get. To fight overwhelming odds like they did. :salute
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Little info..... the D 520 was named for the speed requirement, in knots,
Pre war fighter speed requirement of 520 knots?? :huh
520 knots is 598mph.
The real requirement was 500 kilometers per hour.
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Pre war fighter speed requirement of 520 knots?? :huh
520 knots is 598mph.
The real requirement was 500 kilometers per hour.
:noid
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520requirements.jpg)
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What other plane in the planeset could sub for the D.520 for a Battle for France scenario? Or stand in for the D.520 for an Operation Torch scenario or one involving actions in Syria or Palestine area?
ack-ack
As I've already explained half a dozen times, the D.520 was almost a non-entity in the war. Its participation in the Battle of France was extremely minimal (3 groups) and only for a short time at the end of the BoF. Most of the planes already produced were deemed unsuitable and sent back to the factory to be upgraded to a newer variant and they almost missed the surrender entirely.
Thus, removing them from any representative BoF lineup, their only other claim to fame was over African skies, and even there it was VERY minimal in presence.
The only 2 areas it might EVER show up, it was a footnote. Other planes fill the holes in the planesets for both of those areas (BoF/Africa).
Planes far more needed than the D.520, and far more representative of the theaters they served in:
Ms405
Hawk75
Early Hurr1 (wooden prop)
109E-1
Gladiator
G.50/C.200
Hs123
Me210 (yes, the 210 had more presence and use in Africa than the D.520, believe it or not)
bf110c-6 or bf110e
Ju52
Sm79
bf109e7
Even the woefully obsolete Cr.42, no longer a frontline fighter at the time, would be far more representative than the pitiful D.520 and its meager participation.
Like I said, I've put forth this info half a dozen times already, and the blowhards bumping this thread, just like the boomerang thread, are trying to hide all the facts and blow smoke up the aft side of popular opinion.
It's dishonest.
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Planes far more needed than the D.520, and far more representative of the theaters they served in:
<Snip>Half a dozen German planes with some chaff mixed in</Snip>
Bugger off Krusty and let these people wish for a plane they want. There are plenty of German planes already and you've just got your brand new Me410 to play with.
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If you are attempting to call me a luftwhiner or something of the kind, take your troll elsewhere. Anybody that knows me knows that doesn't hold any water.
Face the facts, the D.520 should never be added to the game. Yeah, I said it. And not because it's French or any other false bias you throw my way: because it was a minor footnote of the war.
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If you are attempting to call me a luftwhiner or something of the kind, take your troll elsewhere. Anybody that knows me knows that doesn't hold any water.
Your bias is obvious to anyone who interacts with you, even to others in this very thread.
...because it was a minor footnote of the war.
So what? So was the Focke-Wulf Ta 152 yet that is here.
Face the facts, the D.520 should never be added to the game. Yeah, I said it.
And most people posting in this thread disagree with you.
In my opinion: this game is about World War two air combat and since this aircraft fought it qualifies for inclusion. I'd far rather see a dozen of these interesting early war fighter aircraft added that one more late war super-fast or super armed aircraft.
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Face the facts, the D.520 should never be added to the game. Yeah, I said it. And not because it's French or any other false bias you throw my way: because it was a minor footnote of the war.
Then what would you add if not this plane?
Minor footnote, huh? F4U4, F4U1C, Ta-152, P47M, Ar-234, Me-163, should i continue? Yet there is no Ki-43, He-111, Ju-188, Jak-3, Pe-2, Tu-2, Beaufighter, no hydroplanes, etc.
Idk whats wrong with this aircraft. Okay, maybe it isnt the biggest gap filler, but an elegant, nimble little beauty.
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While it's not the most representative aircraft of the BoF, I believe it would be the most usable one in the LWA with it's nice roll rate and early drum fed hispano cannon.
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The question to ask regarding the inclusion of a new ride to AH is will it see any use in either special events or the MA? The currently included "footnotes" have a limited role in scenarios but do see significant use in the MA, in fact their use there has to be artificially restricted by the perk point system.
The problem with the D.520 is it saw very little use in the war, just the Battle of France and Operation Torch IIRC. As an MA plane the Hispano is not a lot of help when you can get a Hurricane with four of the things in any MA arena. So you'd be adding a plane that would see very little MA use and would be usable in only two scenarios.
A Ki 43 or a Yak 1 or 7 would be far more useful early war fighters for scenarios and would probably see more MA use too.
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I would fly the D520 and have been flying it for years...........on both sides in an Axis VS Allies arena with rolling planeset based on introduction real life introduction dates.
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Greebo,
4*20s in the hurri is waay overkill. I agree that the Jak 1/7 would be excellent additions, but not in the ki-43. How would you get a kill in a zeek-outturner snail with double 7.92s? At least the D520 has a cannon to cause some damage when they are running away or hit something vital with one single snapshot. Due to the AH's damage modelling, thats practically inpossible with the BBs. The little ki would perform well in the scenarios against Fm2s and P40s but not against spits.
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Same way I used to get kills in the D3A after I dropped the bombs maybe?
I've got hundreds of kills in the KI43 at other sims as well as the mig3.
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Considering how quickly they ran from a fluffin G6, i gave up all the hope :cry
;)
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I'd see people using the Ki-43 much the way many use the other slow fighters in the MA, getting some alt then diving into a low, slow furball and saddling up on some E-less victim. If you get close enough and concentrate on one spot even a couple of mgs can knock pieces off. The more heavily armed A6Ms, Hurris, Brewsters and FM-2s would still see more use in this role, but the Ki-43 would make a fun counter to these rides as it could out turn any of them.
I'm not saying it will see a lot of use, just more than the D.520. Even an A6M2 has twice the cannon ammo and should also easily out perform the French plane in a fight.
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Ki43 will be a hanger queen with its anemic guns and the D520 flew in more than 4 groups. The ki43 would be worse than the hurri1 or spit1 as far as usage prolly about the same as the Bn5.
The D.520 saw way more use than 2 Battles that's ridiculous
I would fly the D.520 way before I would fly the ki43.
We had the ki43 in AW. When it 1st came out every 1 flew it for about 2 weeks then they put it away because it was so outclassed at least in FR.
The D.520 adds another country's plane FRANCE and it would be plenty fine in the MA. 700 or so were produced and it more than qualifies for inclusion. In a very short period May-June it shot down 108 planes and many more after that.
BRING ON THE D.520 :rock
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The question to ask regarding the inclusion of a new ride to AH is will it see any use in either special events or the MA?
I ask a different question, if more of these characteristic and unique earlier war planes were added, would we see a shift in play towards actually staying around and fighting.
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While it's not the most representative aircraft of the BoF, I believe it would be the most usable one in the LWA with it's nice roll rate and early drum fed hispano cannon.
It would be the most usable because it was the best of the best that France could offer. Remove the fact that it was French from the equation. That's the only argument folks in this thread have. It was French. Big deal. It wasn't the only one that had that characteristic.
What it IS is the best of the French, regardless of the fact that it still wasn't all that great. Regardless of the fact that very few actually served and for a very short time.
Shida, you are wrong with your implications that I'm LW-biased. That's a fact. If you want to discuss the relevance of the Ta152 I have some thoughts on the matter but they don't belong in this thread.
Megalodon, read up a bit more on the actual use and production of the craft. Africa and Battle of France is basically it. And its use in both was very limited. Saying 700 built isn't accurate as you imply 700 served. Despite massive ramp-ups in production only 3 groups had them at the time of France's surrender at BoF, and only a small number of second-tier-units had them in Africa. The Bf109 was still the main force for German fighter power.
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so all the early war indigenous designed planes should never be included in AH, because they didn't win the war by themselves?
I'm starting to think that the bias you have is anti french.
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I think ever plane that served in WWII should be included no matter how little it played a role in the actual War so krusty it meets the criteria so bug off plz just cause you don't like an aircraft doesn't mean it won't get added
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Lets all .ignore Krusty's smarteggtastic lamentation :aok
Come on HTC, this plane definiately worths to be in the next poll, as the longest serving french aircraft of the WW2 :aok
oh and if someone, i am anti-french :lol
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nuke and debrody agreeing,
mardi gras ! lets all FLY IT!!!
viva la francais!
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Does it come with secondary white flag instead of bombs?
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Does it come with secondary white flag instead of bombs?
Doesn't that BS ever get old? Those of us who know the history understand fully that it wasn't the French military that folded, it was the total lack of action of the French government that gave France to the Germans. Give the French military their due, they didn't do any worse than any other military in their initial defense vs the Germans.
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Doesn't that BS ever get old? Those of us who know the history understand fully that it wasn't the French military that folded, it was the total lack of action of the French government that gave France to the Germans. Give the French military their due, they didn't do any worse than any other military in their initial defense vs the Germans.
To be fair the defence layout planned by the military was terrible, they thought the German would never come across Belgium. They had WW1 heroes at command, that were still using WW1 tactics, like most countries except germany. Paris was taken without the men being defeated.
IMO The white flag jokes came with the 2nd Gulf war, and the refusal of the french to participate. Fox news did a very nice job at brainwashing people then, and the name stuck. but that's out of subject here.
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Megalodon, read up a bit more on the actual use and production of the craft. Africa and Battle of France is basically it. And its use in both was very limited. Saying 700 built isn't accurate as you imply 700 served. Despite massive ramp-ups in production only 3 groups had them at the time of France's surrender at BoF, and only a small number of second-tier-units had them in Africa. The Bf109 was still the main force for German fighter power.
I love it when he says read up, I must read differently than he does :headscratch:
5 groups is the magic number
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520doc.jpg)
yes I'm sorry by 27 June 1940 438 had been distributed to the army and the navy by the 31st of Dec 1942 the total production of D.520's was around 775 not 700 my mistake.
I have GC's I/1, I/3, II/1, II/3, II/5, II/6, II/7, III/3, III/7 and III/9 as units <10> in total and a couple unofficial
And AC1, AC2
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I love it when he says read up, I must read differently than he does :headscratch:
5 is the magic number
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520doc.jpg)
yes I'm sorry by 27 June 1940 438 had been distributed to the army and the navy by the 31st of Dec 1942 the total production of D.520's was around 775 not 700 my mistake.
I have GC's I/1, I/3, II/1, II/3, II/5, II/6, II/7, III/3, III/7 and III/9 as groups <10> in total and a couple unofficial
Reading comprehension fail on your part.
That's 3 groups. Group I, Group II, and Group III.
Also read more for you utter disblief that they only fought in 2 major areas (Africa/BoF).
As for numbers, in April only the 139th plane had been built. It took all that time from 1939 to April 1940 just to iron out production problems and retooling for the latest variant (previous versions being rejected by the French). By June, when the armistace was signed, only some 400 and change were built. Keep in mind that's total BUILT, not used. Many were early models, returned to factory for a lenghty rebuild to newer standards, which never saw combat.
G.C.I/3 was the first unit to get them, and it wasn't even fully equipped with D.520s until MAY 1940. That's 1 month before armistace. Also, 4 months behind schedule. In May itself, they managed to produce only 100 of the type. In June they were ramping up to reach rates as high as 10 per day, but again, armistace.
By june 437 had been built, only 403 delivered. Don't make the mistake, however, of claiming 403 saw combat. When the Germans invaded only one group had any, and that was G.C.I/3. In such a short time span a few planes may have been flown in other units, but it was not a fast process. Training, familiarization, and infrastructure/support had to be implemented with each new plane. Of the 3 Groups that had the D.520, the transitions were not overnight.
So while those groups got kills, at what point were they FULLY converted to D.520, as opposed to 5 planes here, 5 Moraine Sulners there?
Its presence in the war was minimal, no matter how you look at it.
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How many D.520's served and fought?
How many 152's served and fought?
How many B-239 served and fought?
How many F4UC served and fought?
Your argument is deaf :rolleyes:
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No, your argument is a straw man. You've done this repeatedly. You ignore all the facts and details and can't even admit you didn't read the chart YOU posted properly. Also look at the dates "first on hand" in that chart... Most are in may. Some are in june! The armistace was also in June.
You're plugging your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs hoping volume can sway fact. It can't.
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No, your argument is a straw man. You've done this repeatedly. You ignore all the facts and details and can't even admit you didn't read the chart YOU posted properly. Also look at the dates "first on hand" in that chart... Most are in may. Some are in june! The armistace was also in June.
You're plugging your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs hoping volume can sway fact. It can't.
this is the same argument you made with the P-51 and your wrong again.... :bhead
I did make the mistake of calling them groups instead of units ...oversight.
Btw GC I/3 started deliveries of the D.520 on April 17 thru May 7
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Another straw man. You're totally ignoring the facts that seemingly only 1 squadron fully converted to the type in the closing month of hostilities. It took that squadron 4 months LONGER than anticipated to do so. The rest barely got started on conversion and the war is over for them. Of the scattered/mixed units that flew the 520, they did shoot down planes. However not nearly as much as the main frontline fighters of the war.
1000 M.S.405/406 were produced before March of 1940. They were the premiere French fighter and carried the brunt of the fighting. They had 16 GROUPS fully equipped. 12 of these fully equipped groups fought against the Luftwaffe.
Well over 300 kills were earned by French Hawk 75s (P-36 exports). The total is put somewhere around 1000 for all French kills. In fact Hawk 75s scored the first allied kills in WW2, shooting down 109Es [EDIT: P.S. This was in September 1939 with G.C.II/4]. With around only 12% of the total air force by number, the hawks downed about a third of all enemy craft. 7 out of the 11 French aces flew hawks for their victories.
You're major vocal shriek-fest here is the equivelant of crying for a P-80 shooting star because it was the bestest!1!!11! and completely ignoring all the facts about its actual participation. In this case the D.520 was such a minor player in the BoF your arguments hold no water. You want it because you think it'll turn like a spitfire and has a cannon. You don't care about the history of the events or even of the plane itself.
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Another straw man. You're totally ignoring the facts that seemingly only 1 squadron fully converted to the type in the closing month of hostilities. It took that squadron 4 months LONGER than anticipated to do so. The rest barely got started on conversion and the war is over for them. Of the scattered/mixed units that flew the 520, they did shoot down planes. However not nearly as much as the main frontline fighters of the war.
1000 M.S.405/406 were produced before March of 1940. They were the premiere French fighter and carried the brunt of the fighting. They had 16 GROUPS fully equipped. 12 of these fully equipped groups fought against the Luftwaffe.
Well over 300 kills were earned by French Hawk 75s (P-36 exports). The total is put somewhere around 1000 for all French kills. In fact Hawk 75s scored the first allied kills in WW2, shooting down 109Es [EDIT: P.S. This was in September 1939 with G.C.II/4]. With around only 12% of the total air force by number, the hawks downed about a third of all enemy craft. 7 out of the 11 French aces flew hawks for their victories.
You're major vocal shriek-fest here is the equivelant of crying for a P-80 shooting star because it was the bestest!1!!11! and completely ignoring all the facts about its actual participation. In this case the D.520 was such a minor player in the BoF your arguments hold no water. You want it because you think it'll turn like a spitfire and has a cannon. You don't care about the history of the events or even of the plane itself.
Don't call me names and don't tell me what I care about please.... Doc Krusty I will put you in your seat again.
LOL talk about shrieking I'm not ignoring anything the total number of hawk kills in BOF was 237. The MS.406 had well over 350. The Hawk replaced by the D-520.
:cheers:
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(http://images.wikia.com/victorious/images/b/bd/Eating_popcorn_gif.gif)
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krusty is a Narr D.520 fought from the beginning to the end of the war although it didnt fights as french the whole war it still fought.
The germans loved it so they used it to train pilots . krusty please leave my thread you said u dont like it now move on and let us have it
last time i checked the hawk was an american design
Were asking for a french plane and the D.520 is it
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as I understand ist as long as it served in Unit strength and in combat it makes the cut to be included, and we dotn need ANOTHER 109 or spit. and there are Enough American planes out there IMO.
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AC/I
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520AC-I.jpg)
AC/2
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/16/08/resize_550_550//Dewoitine-D520-2AC.jpg)
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Here is a great easy reading 6 page website on the D.520. It explains/covers the L'Escadrille's, groups, units, trained, fought, killed, were killed, and who fought with it, .... the 1st one to the the last one. In green and red just like AH :)
http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/dewoitine-d-520-2.html (http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/dewoitine-d-520-2.html)
The D.520 fought through the whole war from 1940 to 1945.
and here is a great shot of 2esd GC I/3 D520 #106 I stole from Krusty before he could finish pouring acid on it
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520GC1-3.jpg)
Taken 21 Jan 40 just before they beat feat to Algeria.
:cheers:
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twinboom, don't you dare tell me what to do. You haven't earned that right by a long shot.
As for "megalodon" and his constant insults being thrown at me, his insinuations and implications, he is just a blow-hard who is plugging his ears to the facts and screaming like a child throwing a tantrum.
The D.520 did not fight the entire war. That's as bald-faced a lie as you can get. If you call being relegated to "advanced trainer" and being dumped on export allies that would rarely ever use it, then you have a very bad definition of "served the entire war"...
As for your link, it seems you didn't even read it yourself. More comprehension fail on your part. Did you actually read the dates and the numbes it lists? Here's one example:
"On May 16th, Wez-Thuisy was bombarded by He 111s : 2 D.520 were destroyed and 7 damaged. On May 17th, the Group reached Meaux-Esbly (France) with 18 D.520 (only 6 operational)."
6 operational planes for an entire GROUP. What else do you think they were flying in that time? Moraine-Saulners? H75s? Remember, armistace was signed in June, and in May thay had 6 operational for the group. Yes, they were getting batches of replacements, but the point is if the best-staffed group with the most planes and was there the longest only had 6 planes flyable.... what exactly are you reading? Because it doesn't paint a good picture.
That's all G.C.I, though. Maybe we should look at the others...
G.C.II, changed from M.S.406 (which had been fighting since the previous year, if you recall) on May 20th... that's the month before June (which is when the armistace was signed).
In early June the G.C.II/3 squadron was seeing some action in D.520s, but in small numbers. Nothing to indicate full squadron strength was in the air at any time, unlike G.C.I's aircraft.
How about G.C.II/6? Begun equipping in June, no time for any real action. Disbanded shortly after armistace. However in that short time span they moved around constantly to no less than seven different airfields. I doubt they were doing much for the war effort.
How about G.C.II/7? They didn't convert until the end of May (again, right before armistace). Minor action in one major dogfight. Their last 3 victories of the war were on June 15th. 15 days of service, give or take.
Moving on to the third group, G.G.III/3 was also started on D.520s in early June. By June 7th they were already retreating, and burning D.520s where they stood rather than let Germans overtake them sitting on fields. 1 week before they were already out of the fight in some cases. Between the 10th and the 13th of June the unit moved 3 times. Their last mission was on the 16th. For a unit formed in early June, it was also done fighting in early June.
Then there's G.C.III/6... They only received their first 7 D.520s on June 10th. Between the 10th and the the 20th, they received more, but only saw a couple of fights with the Italians before fleeing with their planes to North Africa to avoid the armistace. 10 days and a couple sorties.
The D.520 saw very little action as compared to the whole of French aircraft at the time. You ought to look up the action of the hawks, or the 406s, if you want to compare that apple of yours to more apples, instead of comparing it to... well NOTHING.
Did you even bother reading this stuff? This is your own link, man. You're knocking your own sell on your butt, man.
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I'd like to see the plane - its like the I-16 but a lil angrier
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twinboom, don't you dare tell me what to do. You haven't earned that right by a long shot.
As for "megalodon" and his constant insults being thrown at me, his insinuations and implications, he is just a blow-hard who is plugging his ears to the facts and screaming like a child throwing a tantrum.
The D.520 did not fight the entire war. That's as bald-faced a lie as you can get. If you call being relegated to "advanced trainer" and being dumped on export allies that would rarely ever use it, then you have a very bad definition of "served the entire war"...
As for your link, it seems you didn't even read it yourself. More comprehension fail on your part. Did you actually read the dates and the numbes it lists? Here's one example:
"On May 16th, Wez-Thuisy was bombarded by He 111s : 2 D.520 were destroyed and 7 damaged. On May 17th, the Group reached Meaux-Esbly (France) with 18 D.520 (only 6 operational)."
6 operational planes for an entire GROUP. What else do you think they were flying in that time? Moraine-Saulners? H75s? Remember, armistace was signed in June, and in May thay had 6 operational for the group. Yes, they were getting batches of replacements, but the point is if the best-staffed group with the most planes and was there the longest only had 6 planes flyable.... what exactly are you reading? Because it doesn't paint a good picture.
That's all G.C.I, though. Maybe we should look at the others...
G.C.II, changed from M.S.406 (which had been fighting since the previous year, if you recall) on May 20th... that's the month before June (which is when the armistace was signed).
In early June the G.C.II/3 squadron was seeing some action in D.520s, but in small numbers. Nothing to indicate full squadron strength was in the air at any time, unlike G.C.I's aircraft.
How about G.C.II/6? Begun equipping in June, no time for any real action. Disbanded shortly after armistace. However in that short time span they moved around constantly to no less than seven different airfields. I doubt they were doing much for the war effort.
How about G.C.II/7? They didn't convert until the end of May (again, right before armistace). Minor action in one major dogfight. Their last 3 victories of the war were on June 15th. 15 days of service, give or take.
Moving on to the third group, G.G.III/3 was also started on D.520s in early June. By June 7th they were already retreating, and burning D.520s where they stood rather than let Germans overtake them sitting on fields. 1 week before they were already out of the fight in some cases. Between the 10th and the 13th of June the unit moved 3 times. Their last mission was on the 16th. For a unit formed in early June, it was also done fighting in early June.
Then there's G.C.III/6... They only received their first 7 D.520s on June 10th. Between the 10th and the the 20th, they received more, but only saw a couple of fights with the Italians before fleeing with their planes to North Africa to avoid the armistace. 10 days and a couple sorties.
The D.520 saw very little action as compared to the whole of French aircraft at the time. You ought to look up the action of the hawks, or the 406s, if you want to compare that apple of yours to more apples, instead of comparing it to... well NOTHING.
Did you even bother reading this stuff? This is your own link, man. You're knocking your own sell on your butt, man.
Hahahaha... how far did ya get?
I'm not going to bother going threw your spiel or digging up the day by day out of the many books I have on the subject ...but you have many mistakes or flatuations and I'll let the web sit/ stand as it is thanks.
Read up,
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A: the D520 is a French plane...
French plane? Whats that? :confused:
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If it arrives in AH, the little pilot dude simply has to be wearing one of those berets :rock
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If it arrives in AH, the little pilot dude simply has to be wearing one of those berets :rock
thta will be a perked option.
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French plane? Whats that? :confused:
Something good at running? :devil
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French plane? Whats that? :confused:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Avion_III_20050711.jpg)
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Something good at running? :devil
That's almost as funny as your cartoons, keep going
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Avion_III_20050711.jpg)
I didn't know the dreamfinders plane was French!
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If I may, I think this will be a gentlemens plane (look at the guy in the robe in the picture). Given the particular air of elitism that some like De Gaul felt about their "superior" men and machines.
I am so silly. Even given my silly comment, I can see myself and others flying this just because "it just has to be the best plane!!!!". Viva La Fraance! Viva!!!
Reginald...bring me my Dewoitine! :salute
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If I may, I think this will be a gentlemens plane (look at the guy in the robe in the picture). Given the particular air of elitism that some like De Gaul felt about their "superior" men and machines.
I am so silly. Even given my silly comment, I can see myself and others flying this just because "it just has to be the best plane!!!!". Viva La Fraance! Viva!!!
Reginald...bring me my Dewoitine! :salute
This smells like a cartoon to me.
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If I may, I think this will be a gentlemens plane (look at the guy in the robe in the picture).
One of my most respected fighter pilots was a French Gentleman: Georges Guynemer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXsNHVEdZk
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One of my most respected fighter pilots was a French Gentleman: Georges Guynemer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXsNHVEdZk
While the accomplishments of these pilots
are impressive, I'm mode inspired by post war period and the genesis of the air mail. Look up ' L'Aéropostale'.
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While the accomplishments of these pilots
are impressive, I'm mode inspired by post war period and the genesis of the air mail. Look up ' L'Aéropostale'.
So what does skiiny jeans and hoodies have to do with anything? http://www.aeropostale.com/ (http://www.aeropostale.com/)
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So what does skiiny jeans and hoodies have to do with anything? http://www.aeropostale.com/ (http://www.aeropostale.com/)
we need a facepalm smiley
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Hahahaha... how far did ya get?
I'm not going to bother going threw your spiel or digging up the day by day out of the many books I have on the subject ...but you have many mistakes or flatuations and I'll let the web sit/ stand as it is thanks.
Read up,
You are slandering me about what I posted after admitting you didn't bother reading what I posted. You, sir, are a troll. You again prove you don't give a crap about the topic. You don't care 1 iota about the history. You'll just spin any lie or insult you want to promote a plane that was a minor footnote in WW2.
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we need a facepalm smiley
yeah that would be cool
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While the accomplishments of these pilots are impressive
I admire his courage and chivalry more than his accomplishments Nuke.
we need a facepalm smiley
How's this:-
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
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how do you add smileys to the palette?
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Last time I did it was just by nicking it off the internet and it got picked up by Pyro I think.
You can use my image by clicking on reply for the link buddy.
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ah just adding it as an image IC
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One of my most respected fighter pilots was a French Gentleman: Georges Guynemer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXsNHVEdZk
I remember reading 'eggs al a guynemer' when I was a kid, into Biggles by W. E John:)
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twinboom, don't you dare tell me what to do. You haven't earned that right by a long shot.
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Umm lol Krusty you sir are the troll read the books mega is posting facts you sir are just posting hear say .
Take your anti french antics somewhere else like i said before please you are trashing my thread.
Ill paypal you .50 cent take it and go buy a clue , If you so cared about "History" you would be for the adding of any french plane.
And before you mention the Hawk again , a tip is its not french its american lend lease .
Id also like to see the french Morane-Saulnier M.S.406
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eUNqSsyyQic/ThspRa_oq5I/AAAAAAAAAlQ/biDo0uuthDA/s1600/Morane-Saulnier%2BM.S.406-1.jpg)
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Umm lol Krusty you sir are the troll read the books mega is posting facts you sir are just posting hear say .
Take your anti french antics somewhere else like i said before please you are trashing my thread.
100% BS and lies. I was quoting his very reference and explaining how he is completely wrong and deluded. If you had followed the link or read my post, you would know this. Instead you post lies about me to slander me (again) because you don't like what I have to say.
Face the facts. I'm not making this up. Most of those units that had any D.520s in the BoF had them for a whopping week and a half to two weeks. Some of them were changing airfields so often they never flew combat!
If you're calling this "hearsay" then you have to throw that baldfaced lie at your pal, Megalodon, as well. He's the one that used the link as reference for his point. He simply again failed to comprehend what he was reading.
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lol Everyone else is the world is wrong and krusty is right is that what ur trying to sell????
tell the hundreds of men who flew these birds they are "100% BS"
Krusty is pegging the HTC Bs meter hard and he is not "my pal" he is a fan as am I. Now who is slandering are you the pot or kettle?
"Those whom live in glass house'es shouldn't cast stones"
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100% BS and lies. I was quoting his very reference and explaining how he is completely wrong and deluded. If you had followed the link or read my post, you would know this. Instead you post lies about me to slander me (again) because you don't like what I have to say.
Krusty, could you at least consider that the way you approach this BBS kind of brings these reactions on yourself. You can't have half a dozen people at any given moment 'posting lies and slander' without just for a moment considering the common denominator: you.
You seem very passionate about WWII aviation and that's fantastic, but sometimes your opinionated or authoritative delivery just turns everyone against you. Take this thread for instance. You're so sure, so adamantly sure you are right and so forcefully are you asserting that, that you're actually doing the best job of promoting the D.520 possible, because people just become belligerent & unite against you.
It's easy to get righteously indignant on a forum, we've all done it, including me (much to my later embarrassment) but someone very wise once told me there was great value and strength in posting your opinion and then leaving it at that. If your opinion has merit it should displace those with less merit, and so on.
Even if you win this argument about the numbers of aircraft serving, it really doesn't get you anywhere anyway, since we already know HTC will include an interesting aircraft if they see fit, regardless of the numbers flown (again I cite the Ta-152). Squabbling over a finite resource, in this case HTC's rate of releasing new aircraft, is always going to get ugly, but we are just players all, with equally little influence. I'm sure I'll never see my beloved Westland Whirlwind in this game, but this is the Wishlist, we are allowed to discuss and propose our dream aircraft here, the decision for inclusion lies elsewhere.
This is just how I see things.
:salute
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I've read far more then enough books on the D.520 and M.S.406, both fit the bill to be added in game.
It flew not only with the French, germans AND italians, Italians which took over 60 D.520s from france in Early 1943, when Italy joined the Allies they still had 16 D.520s in its inventory flying daily.
If thats not enough the Vichy French Gov. had a deal with the Bulgarians for Bloch MB.152s, however the German's turned the deal down and offered D.520s as "War prizes". 120 Aircraft with spares were sent, first combat was 10 december 43.
I could go on and on and on about where the D.520 fought, the MAIN issue it did not fly with the Allies in Africa was due to the Radio setup, one of few reasons it wasn't so active in the North africa campaign, however a squadron or two did cover the Torch landings.
Technically speaking this is one of the very few aircrafts that actually flew for multiple countries on both sides of the conflict, trying to say its simply "French" would be slander, I say its great since it would be flown in quite a few "theaters" of operation on both sides.
Sources? Yellow Series - D.520 by Bartomiej Belcarz, Aero Details, Close up D.520, Osprey Aircam
I see no reason it shouldn't be added.
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Krusty, could you at least consider that the way you approach this BBS kind of brings these reactions on yourself. You can't have half a dozen people at any given moment 'posting lies and slander' without just for a moment considering the common denominator: you.
You seem very passionate about WWII aviation and that's fantastic, but sometimes your opinionated or authoritative delivery just turns everyone against you. Take this thread for instance. You're so sure, so adamantly sure you are right and so forcefully are you asserting that, that you're actually doing the best job of promoting the D.520 possible, because people just become belligerent & unite against you.
It's easy to get righteously indignant on a forum, we've all done it, including me (much to my later embarrassment) but someone very wise once told me there was great value and strength in posting your opinion and then leaving it at that. If your opinion has merit it should displace those with less merit, and so on.
Even if you win this argument about the numbers of aircraft serving, it really doesn't get you anywhere anyway, since we already know HTC will include an interesting aircraft if they see fit, regardless of the numbers flown (again I cite the Ta-152). Squabbling over a finite resource, in this case HTC's rate of releasing new aircraft, is always going to get ugly, but we are just players all, with equally little influence. I'm sure I'll never see my beloved Westland Whirlwind in this game, but this is the Wishlist, we are allowed to discuss and propose our dream aircraft here, the decision for inclusion lies elsewhere.
This is just how I see things.
:salute
Where's the clapping smiley? :aok :salute
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Shida, that's a very biased comment coming from you. You, personally, have tried to pass the blame to me in the past, in threads you have derailed, perhaps the ones you refer to.
I'm not just arguing numbers. They're all there for anybody to read about. I'm arguing impact on the war. It's there to be seen. What Megalodon is trying to do is backpedal, insult, throw up false arguments to hide his own mistakes, and misdirections, all on par with Gaston or the likes.
The fact of the matter is you can't state your position and leave it at that. Often somebody with intent to misdirect, lie, or fabricate will constantly spin up a veil of false support for something when he only has selfish motives. In this case I mean Megalodon. He has turned around and called me a liar for quoting his own source against him. Twinboom has called me also a liar, without bothering to read the content or comprehend why I was pointing this out to Megalodon. You see, the same small select group of folks over and over likes to throw insults and names at me. They do it quite often.
To implicate that I am to blame for their misguided pathetic attempts to ... do whatever the hell they're trying to do... is simply an unfair accusation. Might as well say it was the Jews' fault that Hitler persecuted them, you see? That argument doesn't stand up to any logic.
I have been quite civil this entire thread, and have stated repeatedly my opinion, and repeatedly backed it with facts and details, and yet repeatedly Megalodon simply ignores anything I say with a dismissive insult.
It shouldn't stand. Hence why I have quite calmly and rationally pointed out how his posts have been as much nonsense as Gaston's latest wing-warping tyrade.
P.S. If you want to discuss the Ta152 and why it is not a comparison, I would be happy to oblige, but not in this thread. Too much misdirection and straw arguments are being thrown around in here. It needs to be kept on track. Start another thread if you like and i will join in.
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Well it was just an suggestion that you could consider altering your approach if you want a different response, you can take or leave it. I wonder why you take people disagreeing with you as some kind of personal attack everytime?
I'm not just arguing numbers. They're all there for anybody to read about. I'm arguing impact on the war.
I know, and as I said it doesn't matter, since HTC has already introduced several combat aircraft that had less impact on the war than this one, the Ta152 being just one example. If it is your standpoint that HTC had no business introducing the Ta152 then again, that's just your opinion, but it's not up to you is it? Since you're just a player like the rest of us.
The fact of the matter is you can't state your position and leave it at that.
Well what else can you do practically? Let me ask you how is your present technique working out for you?
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Shida, that's a very biased comment coming from you. You, personally, have tried to pass the blame to me in the past, in threads you have derailed, perhaps the ones you refer to.
I'm not just arguing numbers. They're all there for anybody to read about. I'm arguing impact on the war. It's there to be seen. What Megalodon is trying to do is backpedal, insult, throw up false arguments to hide his own mistakes, and misdirections, all on par with Gaston or the likes.
The fact of the matter is you can't state your position and leave it at that. Often somebody with intent to misdirect, lie, or fabricate will constantly spin up a veil of false support for something when he only has selfish motives. In this case I mean Megalodon. He has turned around and called me a liar for quoting his own source against him. Twinboom has called me also a liar, without bothering to read the content or comprehend why I was pointing this out to Megalodon. You see, the same small select group of folks over and over likes to throw insults and names at me. They do it quite often.
To implicate that I am to blame for their misguided pathetic attempts to ... do whatever the hell they're trying to do... is simply an unfair accusation. Might as well say it was the Jews' fault that Hitler persecuted them, you see? That argument doesn't stand up to any logic.
I have been quite civil this entire thread, and have stated repeatedly my opinion, and repeatedly backed it with facts and details, and yet repeatedly Megalodon simply ignores anything I say with a dismissive insult.
It shouldn't stand. Hence why I have quite calmly and rationally pointed out how his posts have been as much nonsense as Gaston's latest wing-warping tyrade.
P.S. If you want to discuss the Ta152 and why it is not a comparison, I would be happy to oblige, but not in this thread. Too much misdirection and straw arguments are being thrown around in here. It needs to be kept on track. Start another thread if you like and i will join in.
Quite calmly and rationally insult you mean right ? Impact on the war is your yardstick ? What impact on the war did the 152 have ? Did it turn back the allied bomber streams ? Did it save the 3rd Reich ? Your position is that the 520 had no impact on the war so it does not deserve to be added . People are pointing out that other planes had far less effect yet are included . So your point holds no water .Ta-152 combat record is probably single digit kills and losses . Production aircraft less than 50 . A plane of almost no impact is what people are saying yet we have it . The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. No straw man here . You kill the messenger for what he brings by attacking shida . He points out you bring the animosity of people on yourself . You say here you have been cordial . "100 percent BS and lies" is hardly cordial . Shida was actually trying to do you a solid . Telling you if you word things differently you may have better reactions . I have come up with a new rule for myself here maybe it will help you . When I am in a heated debate and I read a post that gets me fired up . I wait for 3 hours before I let myself respond .
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Krusty it seems everyone in this thread is picking on you, so why dont ya do yourself a favor and leave it.
You are hijacking my thread with your Biased opinion turning it into a name slinging contest, so please leave yet once again.
Bring on the D.520!
Here are some pics of her having no impact on the War with various countries.
From these pics its obvious she didn't serve multiple countries and multiple squadrons and multiple sorties downing multiple targets.
****END SARCASM****
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5959/d5202f.jpg)
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2467/d5207f.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8784/d52097f.jpg)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3050/d52013bulgariaaf.jpg)
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/197/d5207bulgariaf.jpg)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2104/d5209f.jpg)
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Krusty it seems everyone in this thread is picking on you, so why dont ya do yourself a favor and leave it.
You are hijacking my thread with your Biased opinion turning it into a name slinging contest, so please leave yet once again.
Bring on the D.520!
Here are some pics of her having no impact on the War with various countries.
From these pics its obvious she didn't serve multiple countries and multiple squadrons and multiple sorties downing multiple targets.
****END SARCASM****
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5959/d5202f.jpg)
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2467/d5207f.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8784/d52097f.jpg)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3050/d52013bulgariaaf.jpg)
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/197/d5207bulgariaf.jpg)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2104/d5209f.jpg)
+1 :aok
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So you're using Bulgarian, Italian, French, and German markings as your evidence?
Germans used it as an advanced trainer. French... well we've coved the 2 weeks the French used it. Bulgarian? Of the 120 airframes they received, they only had a handful of sorties later in the war after years of no action, after which they were immediately replaced with 109Gs. The Bulgarians had them, but impact on the war was nothing for them. Italians? Captured aircraft pressed into service. Wasn't the only type they did that with. Saw minor action. Macchis and Fiats were plentiful and saw most of the action, backed by German exports (109s).
Just because there's a photo of it doesn't qualify its existence, just states that it existed. You can find photos of many planes in markings that played little or no role in the war. Need I dig up photos of the He-113 on flightlines being scrambled against incoming bombers? In case you don't understand, there WERE no He-113s and they didn't see any combat. But... there are plenty of photos of them!
So, photos of those various marking doesn't change any of the facts put forth in this thread. You still must face these facts.
P.S. Hlbly you're so off base it's not even in the same time zone.
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twinboom, don't you dare tell me what to do. You haven't earned that right by a long shot.
As for "megalodon" and his constant insults being thrown at me, his insinuations and implications, he is just a blow-hard who is plugging his ears to the facts and screaming like a child throwing a tantrum.
The D.520 did not fight the entire war. That's as bald-faced a lie as you can get. If you call being relegated to "advanced trainer" and being dumped on export allies that would rarely ever use it, then you have a very bad definition of "served the entire war"...
As for your link, it seems you didn't even read it yourself. More comprehension fail on your part. Did you actually read the dates and the numbes it lists? Here's one example:
"On May 16th, Wez-Thuisy was bombarded by He 111s : 2 D.520 were destroyed and 7 damaged. On May 17th, the Group reached Meaux-Esbly (France) with 18 D.520 (only 6 operational)."
6 operational planes for an entire GROUP. What else do you think they were flying in that time? Moraine-Saulners? H75s? Remember, armistace was signed in June, and in May thay had 6 operational for the group. Yes, they were getting batches of replacements, but the point is if the best-staffed group with the most planes and was there the longest only had 6 planes flyable.... what exactly are you reading? Because it doesn't paint a good picture.
That's all G.C.I, though. Maybe we should look at the others...
G.C.II, changed from M.S.406 (which had been fighting since the previous year, if you recall) on May 20th... that's the month before June (which is when the armistace was signed).
In early June the G.C.II/3 squadron was seeing some action in D.520s, but in small numbers. Nothing to indicate full squadron strength was in the air at any time, unlike G.C.I's aircraft.
How about G.C.II/6? Begun equipping in June, no time for any real action. Disbanded shortly after armistace. However in that short time span they moved around constantly to no less than seven different airfields. I doubt they were doing much for the war effort.
How about G.C.II/7? They didn't convert until the end of May (again, right before armistace). Minor action in one major dogfight. Their last 3 victories of the war were on June 15th. 15 days of service, give or take.
Moving on to the third group, G.G.III/3 was also started on D.520s in early June. By June 7th they were already retreating, and burning D.520s where they stood rather than let Germans overtake them sitting on fields. 1 week before they were already out of the fight in some cases. Between the 10th and the 13th of June the unit moved 3 times. Their last mission was on the 16th. For a unit formed in early June, it was also done fighting in early June.
Then there's G.C.III/6... They only received their first 7 D.520s on June 10th. Between the 10th and the the 20th, they received more, but only saw a couple of fights with the Italians before fleeing with their planes to North Africa to avoid the armistace. 10 days and a couple sorties.
The D.520 saw very little action as compared to the whole of French aircraft at the time. You ought to look up the action of the hawks, or the 406s, if you want to compare that apple of yours to more apples, instead of comparing it to... well NOTHING.
Did you even bother reading this stuff? This is your own link, man. You're knocking your own sell on your butt, man.
You are the straw man Krusty you are picking and choosing the info just like you pick in the sky's of AH. :aok
You also fail to remember that it was about 750 vs. 3500 total aircraft at the beginning.
I will address the 1st of your reading comprehension fail's and that's all the time I have K.
you posted this:
"On May 16th, Wez-Thuisy was bombarded by He 111s : 2 D.520 were destroyed and 7 damaged. On May 17th, the Group reached Meaux-Esbly (France) with 18 D.520 (only 6 operational)."
and then went rampent:
"6 operational planes for an entire GROUP. What else do you think they were flying in that time? Moraine-Saulners? H75s? Remember, armistace was signed in June, and in May thay had 6 operational for the group. Yes, they were getting batches of replacements, but the point is if the best-staffed group with the most planes and was there the longest only had 6 planes flyable.... what exactly are you reading? Because it doesn't paint a good picture."
You failed to post all the correct info and only posted what you thought made your case. The next sentence you saw they received 10 more aircraft but chopped it out of your quote:
In April and May, the Group received 41 D.520s but only 34 "operational for war" on May 10th. Comparative trials (April 21st, 1940) against a captured Bf 109E-3 showed a 20 mph higher speed for the 109 but a superior manoeuvrability for the D.520. The Group was leaded by the Commander Thibaudet and the 1st and 2nd Squadrons by Captains Pape and Challe. Based on May 11th at Wez-Thuisy (Reims, France), the Group claimed the first 4 kills on the 13th May (3 Henschel 126 and 1 Heinkel 111).
"On May 16th, Wez-Thuisy was bombarded by He 111s : 2 D.520 were destroyed and 7 damaged. On May 17th, the Group reached Meaux-Esbly (France) with 18 D.520 (only 6 operational). The same day, the Second-lieutenant Thierry was shot down but not killed. 10 new D.520 were then delivered. On May 18th, 1 Do 17 destroyed the D.520 of Commander Thibaudet and shot down Sgt Bouffier who crashed near Château-Thierry but survived whereas the Do 17 was shot down. then followed 1 victory on the 19th, 1 probable on the 20th and 1 on the 21st.
5 days later 10 more arrived:
On May 24th, arrived 10 new D.520s and 3 Czech pilots and the mechanics were getting the other planes up and running.
You can pick and choose to try to make your point all you like. You make it sound like the had only 6 planes which is just a false as can be. Then you discount the replacements. You also try to make it sound like they just recieved the plane and had no time to train when in reality the group started receiving the D520 in January. :rolleyes:
This is on the web page but I will post it just for all to see.
These are the kills of just Gc I/3 in the D.520 from 17 May until 16 June '40, just under 1 month. Of course they went on to Algeria after.
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/24/10/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-11.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/12/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-2.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/01/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-3.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/01/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-4.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/01/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-5.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/03/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-6.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/03/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-7.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/03/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-8.png)
(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/07/25/03/resize_550_550//GC-I-3-victoires-9.png)
Not bad for 6 guys who got reinforcements eh?
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520FinTB2.jpg)
Pierre Colombier avec le lieutenant Salva, La Sénia 1941.
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P.S. Hlbly you're so off base it's not even in the same time zone.
I did hope Krusty would take it in the spirit intended but we've argued before so he'll assume he's being attacked.
Didn't make any difference I notice. He's like the Energizer Bunny :lol
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To implicate that I am to blame for their misguided pathetic attempts to ... do whatever the hell they're trying to do... is simply an unfair accusation. Might as well say it was the Jews' fault that Hitler persecuted them, you see? That argument doesn't stand up to any logic.
Comparing his plight in a purse fight to the Holocaust takes the cake. :rolleyes:
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Comparing his plight in a purse fight to the Holocaust takes the cake. :rolleyes:
This is a WW2 frame of reference. I chose the most obvious example. The point remains the same, you're blaming the target, instead of those taking the cheap/weak shots.
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I did hope Krusty would take it in the spirit intended but we've argued before so he'll assume he's being attacked.
Didn't make any difference I notice. He's like the Energizer Bunny :lol
I do appreciate your comments Shida, and I understand the point you were trying to make.
I think you are wrong, but I appreciate the comments and the polite way in which they were delivered.
I don't think that changes the issue with magalodon, though.
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You are the straw man Krusty you are picking and choosing the info just like you pick in the sky's of AH. :aok
You also fail to remember that it was about 750 vs. 3500 total aircraft at the beginning.
You're a little misguided on the first part, and more so on the second part.
I did not pretend they only had 6. I said that if the first unit to fully convert was down to only 6 planes at one point of fighting, where the fighthing ended June 15th for all units, give or take a day, that doesn't say much for their combat effectiveness. I openly admit it wasn't the norm and I wasn't hiding anything (which is why I added they got reinforcements), but the point remains the best equipped and most trained unit was so pressed for airfames that at the height of their use the D.520 could only field 5 planes on a particular day... you can't ignore that. The nature of the French Air Force is widely regarded as one of the least efficient and most disorganized amongst WW2 air forces. I did it to prove a point, and was not cherry picking nor hiding details.
And you keep harping on the 750 number, but this is patently false. You're quoting post war production and exports and ignore actual strength at the time of Battle of France. Your scanned chart shows first D.520 received in May for most of those units. First received, let alone "fully converted to type".... At BoF time, only 330 or so were sent from the factory, and they definitely weren't flying in waves of 50 through the skies, or anything. The highest they could field were 11 at a time here, or 14 there, and those are the higher numbers posted.
Compare this to the 1000 M.S. 406s in service and the 300 Hawks. You'll see it's a pale comparison.
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And you keep harping on the 750 number, but this is patently false. You're quoting post war production and exports and ignore actual strength at the time of Battle of France. Your scanned chart shows first D.520 received in May for most of those units. First received, let alone "fully converted to type".... At BoF time, only 330 or so were sent from the factory, and they definitely weren't flying in waves of 50 through the skies, or anything. The highest they could field were 11 at a time here, or 14 there, and those are the higher numbers posted.
Compare this to the 1000 M.S. 406s in service and the 300 Hawks. You'll see it's a pale comparison.
The 750 number I'm quoting is not the # of D.520's at the beginning of hostilities, more reading comprehension fail by you, but all aircraft available at the start. Not the 775 Dewoitine's made by 43. However all of these planes were being replaced by the D.520.
You also imply that they had 300 hawks in service at once and they did not, mater fact by the end of the BOF there were more D.520 still available than the total number of hawks received from the lend/lease deal with the U.S.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D-520strength.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D-520strength2.jpg)
And once again there were 1200+ M.S. 406 made.
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Hi I'm a figment of your imagination I had 0 impact on the war.
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9655/bgpilotparachute.jpg)
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howdy :airplane:
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Hi I'm wasting valuable fuel during 1943 in Italy on a Airplane that wasn't there, this picture means nothing .
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2304/dev520istres1943.jpg)
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This is a WW2 frame of reference. I chose the most obvious example. The point remains the same, you're blaming the target, instead of those taking the cheap/weak shots.
That is no reasonable example it's just over the top drama.
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Dont be that sarcastic, TB, dont let one smelly egg poop into everyone's fun :aok
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Dont be that sarcastic, TB, dont let one smelly egg poop into everyone's fun :aok
Just because there's a photo of it doesn't qualify its existence
:neener:
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D.520 is one of those interesting aircrafts I really like. Its an early war aircraft for one, the bulgarians actually loved the firepower of the 20mm hub cannon, interesting to note one of the chief test pilots for the D.520 for the Germans made the same exact note - except it was completely ignored.
Always wondered what happened if Mauser would of duplicated or replicated the Hispano gun.
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Hi I'm wasting valuable fuel during 1943 in Italy on a Airplane that wasn't there, this picture means nothing .
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2304/dev520istres1943.jpg)
its funny to see they kept the aircraft model on the rudder
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its funny to see they kept the aircraft model on the rudder
Must of had some yanks flying for them ?
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d-520cheifdennismay40.jpg)
The Dewoitine D.520 was the best fighter aircraft the French Air Force had during WWII. It was powered by a Hispano Suiza 12Y45 V12 engine, which produced 910hp and enabled a top speed of 529km/h.
Its armament included a 20mm HS404 cannon and two 7.5mm machine guns on each wing. At the opening stages of WWII, D.520s fought fiercely against the Luftwaffe and their pilots claimed more than 100 aerial victories. After the armistice in 1940, the D.520 was extensively used by the Vichy Air Force as well as Free French units until the end of the war.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520field.jpg)
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"Its an early war aircraft for one, the bulgarians actually loved the firepower of the 20mm hub cannon, interesting to note one of the chief test pilots for the D.520 for the Germans made the same exact note - except it was completely ignored. Always wondered what happened if Mauser would of duplicated or replicated the Hispano gun."
109s had hub cannon later on and its value was recognized as such. Germans didn't need to copy Hispano as they already had as good, or better, weapon coming, that is MG151/20, and later on MK103 and MK108. It is these cartoon games that makes you notice differences between them that did not exist in reality.
-C+
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Ready to make Zero impact on the war....Per Krusty , this squad or planes never existed
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2553/fulmar207.jpg)
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Would be nice to get a plane like this in the update without even knowing about, like a surprise :eek:
Yep that would be :cool:
TB,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-Hn_-VtGg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-Hn_-VtGg)
and.... a cool animation of Pierre Le Gloan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNThs95eXtg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNThs95eXtg&feature=related)
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very nice
:cheers:
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I would rather have the IAR 80 than the D.520.
The IAR might actually be decent in MW and LW, and undoubtably had more impact on the war.
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Pre war fighter speed requirement of 520 knots?? :huh
520 knots is 598mph.
The real requirement was 500 kilometers per hour.
oops 520 KPH
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I would rather have the IAR 80 than the D.520.
The IAR might actually be decent in MW and LW, and undoubtably had more impact on the war.
The IAR 80 had virtually no impact on the war. Honestly, the D.520 really didn't have much of one either on any theater it served in but those issues weren't because of the plane.
ack-ack
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The IAR 80 had virtually no impact on the war. Honestly, the D.520 really didn't have much of one either on any theater it served in but those issues weren't because of the plane.
ack-ack
Not saying the IAR had a lot, but it still had more than the D.520, being Romania's main frontline fighter untill July of '44 and all.
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Not saying the IAR had a lot, but it still had more than the D.520, being Romania's main frontline fighter untill July of '44 and all.
The contributions of the IAR 80/IAR 81 to the war was just as minor, it not more so than the D.520. It may have been Romania's main fighter type before being pulled from service, it doesn't change the IAR 80/81 didn't contribute anything to the air war at all. The reason is because Romania was such a minor player. Even in the defense of it's own skies it was a minor player, with Germany providing the bulk of Romania's air defenses.
ack-ack
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I would rather have the IAR 80 than the D.520.
The IAR might actually be decent in MW and LW, and undoubtably had more impact on the war.
Then start a thread this is for the D.520
The D.520 served multiple countries during the war. Period
VIVA LE FRANCE ! :rock
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Wow... TB still endlessly trolling his own thread? STILL?
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How is TB trolling?
ack-ack
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You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
:ahand
How is TB trolling?
ack-ack
Haterz gonna hate its part of life.
VIVA LE FRANCE ! :rock
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Hey! What are you doing? You know this plane isn't Real Haven't
you heard the Almighty Krusty's biased speech on this bird?
This plane doesn't exist bruh!!!! Don't come at me Bruh!!!!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img211/5669/4645.jpg)
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Free French having No impact on the war
piss off krusty
(http://imageshack.us/a/img69/6803/d520ffi.jpg)
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(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5337/d520010.jpg)
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Still a huge +1 from me despite the inaccuracy of the image above, the Emil should be the one shooting, you know... :furious
:D
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Still a huge +1 from me despite the inaccuracy of the image above, the Emil should be the one shooting, you know... :furious
:D
Didn't the D.520 have a rather positive K/D ratio against the Bf109?
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Didn't the D.520 have a rather positive K/D ratio against the Bf109?
Yes, but IIRC, it was also given to the best units first, so it might nor might not mean anything.
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Yes, but IIRC, it was also given to the best units first, so it might nor might not mean anything.
That is irrelevant to my sorta point. If the D.520 did have the better K/D ratio in that contest then the painting is correct with the Bf109 receiving the fire, contrary to Raphael's comment. :p
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That is irrelevant to my sorta point. If the D.520 did have the better K/D ratio in that contest then the painting is correct with the Bf109 receiving the fire, contrary to Raphael's comment. :p
Well..... shut up :D.
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Surely if you give a good plane to bad pilots the K/D ratio would still be crap . but give a good plane to good squadrons and you get great K/D ratio. So I would always equip the best squadrons with the better kit .
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Surely if you give a good plane to bad pilots the K/D ratio would still be crap . but give a good plane to good squadrons and you get great K/D ratio. So I would always equip the best squadrons with the better kit .
Well yes, but the point is that the 109 wasn't used in limtied numbers, and wasn't given to just 'the best', nor was the Cr.52 or other aircraft it faced. So its KTD doesn't nessicarily say anything to its capabilities.
Thats all I was saying.
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Didn't the D.520 have a rather positive K/D ratio against the Bf109?
Yes it did during the Battle for France but surprisingly it's positive K/D ratio dropped when faced against Allied planes in Palestine/Syria and North Africa.
ack-ack
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So its KTD doesn't nessicarily say anything to its capabilities.
Thats all I was saying.
It does, in fact it says quite a bit about its capabilities but you're so intent on trying to show how irrelevant the D.520 is that you're blind to it.
ack-ack
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It does, in fact it says quite a bit about its capabilities but you're so intent on trying to show how irrelevant the D.520 is that you're blind to it.
I think other things should come first. Oh dear Jesus, I must be biased when viewing the data :rolleyes:!
Say you're in a P-40E. You shoot me down when I'm flying a Ki-84. That doesn't say the P-40E is better than the Ki-84. All it says is that I've been out of the game for over a year, and couldn't have beaten you even when I left. Going "but the D.520 has a high KTD, so it must be good!" is entirely incorrect. It might mean that, sure, but its not in any way a guaranteed thing. Like I said, the D.520 was given to better units first, and so it's KTD would be influenced by pilot skill more than if it had been the primary fighter for the French.
I'm not saying the D.520 is a poor fighter, and I'm not saying its a good one; I personally don't know. What I am saying is that its KTD can't be looked at as the difinitive indicator of its capability, due to the limited useage, and uneven distribution between units.
If you feel I'm wrong, by all means correct me. But please don't pull that "You're wrong, you just don't know how you're wrong" BS.
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I get kills in them all the time.
Great early war plane and a good battle for the mig3.
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isn't the mig a brick compared to the Dewoitine?
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Heard that the Mig was a brick compared to just like anything. Would be nice to compare their wing loading though.
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I get kills in them all the time.
what?! did they release the d520? :huh
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I think other things should come first. Oh dear Jesus, I must be biased when viewing the data :rolleyes:!
Say you're in a P-40E. You shoot me down when I'm flying a Ki-84. That doesn't say the P-40E is better than the Ki-84. All it says is that I've been out of the game for over a year, and couldn't have beaten you even when I left. Going "but the D.520 has a high KTD, so it must be good!" is entirely incorrect. It might mean that, sure, but its not in any way a guaranteed thing. Like I said, the D.520 was given to better units first, and so it's KTD would be influenced by pilot skill more than if it had been the primary fighter for the French.
I'm not saying the D.520 is a poor fighter, and I'm not saying its a good one; I personally don't know. What I am saying is that its KTD can't be looked at as the difinitive indicator of its capability, due to the limited useage, and uneven distribution between units.
If you feel I'm wrong, by all means correct me. But please don't pull that "You're wrong, you just don't know how you're wrong" BS.
Krusty is this your shade account?
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:aok I had made a request for this awhile back TB. Good call. There are quite a few Aircraft that are not represented in AH and should be.
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520panel.jpg)
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If you have only a finite number of aircraft your going to put the best kit into the best hands . If it wasn't a good plane then why give it to the best pilots?
that wouldn't make sense you'd want them where they would be most effective . Seeing how the battle of France was over so quickly imagine what would have happened
if it had been allowed to be built in the same way as hurricane and spitfires were . If only a small number were able to have such a good K/D ratio against a huge number of very experienced fighter pilots then it must have been a pretty good plane for the pilots .
German pilots were the most experienced air combat pilots in the open years of the war , having already flown in the spanish civil war , ergo it was good pilot V good pilot in different planes . French pilots were no where near as experienced in air to air combat .
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Didn't the D.520 have a rather positive K/D ratio against the Bf109?
Has anyone seen a direct K/D-comparison between Bf109E and D.520? All I remember seeing is general French claims versus French losses data including all types from both sides.
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Found a table that is Dewoitine-specific:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/Dewoitine_kills_losses.jpg)
It doesn't devide Dewoitine losses to specific enemy types, though.
So the K/D against all enemy types is 2/1. Like with all fronts and combatants, the actual truth of course comes from comparing German losses to Dewoitine losses instead of using French claims.
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Found a table that is Dewoitine-specific:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/Dewoitine_kills_losses.jpg)
It doesn't devide Dewoitine losses to specific enemy types, though.
So the K/D against all enemy types is 2/1. Like with all fronts and combatants, the actual truth of course comes from comparing German losses to Dewoitine losses instead of using French claims.
it was posted back a few pages also it does not include 2 other groups AC1 and AC2
this page http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/content/dewoitine-d-520.html (http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/content/dewoitine-d-520.html) already posted as-well has a much better accounting.
No need for German claims
:cheers:
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this page http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/content/dewoitine-d-520.html (http://ww2fighters.e-monsite.com/pages/content/dewoitine-d-520.html) already posted as-well has a much better accounting.
:headscratch:
Those pages show Dewoitine victories, like the table I posted. Are the one's that have German units mentioned confirmed from German loss archives? It has planes listed as "probable" with units on them? And the one's without units mentioned weren't found from the records?
The question was about Dewoitine's K/D against Bf109E.
No need for German claims
I wasn't talking about "German claims" anywhere in my posts. I was talking about German loss records and French Dewoitine losses and claims.
To have an accurate picture about actual victories and losses on both sides, one needs to compare actual losses with the kill claims from the other side to get an accurate picture.
----------------------
Anyways, it's not really productive to compare the technical merits of two fighter aircraft based on a rather small sample of kills per plane against each other anyway. As far as real war goes, 109E was slightly faster and had a clearly better climb rate and higher FTH with two well working cannons instead of a single poor one like the Dewoitine. Considering how the fighter tactics evolved those days and have evolved to our days., I think it's rather clear which was the better fighter aircraft at the time.
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520GCIII3.jpg)
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bump it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and the westlan whirlwind or wwhat ever it is
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To quote Denholm from my request on this bird:
Looks like a Spitfire had some fun with a Brewster. :cool:
But yes, a definite +1!
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bmpLSJwqSdw/TjKfuL--x_I/AAAAAAAADIY/4IGNS7jpB9U/s1600/d520.jpg)
The first Dewoitine D.520 fighter constructed for the French resistance was this machine coded '1' delivered to the 1st Groupe de Chasse 'Doret', a unit established by the 'resistance forces of the interior' (FFI) in the Toulouse region. Both the SNCASE (Dewoitine) and the Morane-Saulnier factory at Tarbes had been manufacturing D.520s for the Germans since 1943, but following the Allied landings in southern France (Provence) during August 1944, Morane Saulnier diverted construction to the newly established GC 1 of the FFI. The pictures were taken on 24 August 1944 and the pilot seen in front of the aircraft at Tarbes-Ossun is capitaine de réserve Jean Cliquet, who was previously chief pilot at Morane Saulnier. Note the cross of Lorraine on the rudder and the wing roundels.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MfaV_dlIGuw/TjKfwdX0RCI/AAAAAAAADIc/3fIwyhLQglo/s1600/d520FFI.jpg)
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instead of a single poor one like the Dewoitine.
Did the HS404 have a poor record in the D.520? I know that, as the Hispano Mk I, it had problems in the Spitfire Mk Ib and Spitfire Mk IIb, but that was due to the mounting not being sufficiently rigid and being mounted on its side as I understood it. I don't recall the Whirlwind or Beaufighter having stoppage issues with their Hispano Mk Is. I'd have expected the HS404 in the D.520 to be reliable as well due to the rigid engine mounting.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bmpLSJwqSdw/TjKfuL--x_I/AAAAAAAADIY/4IGNS7jpB9U/s1600/d520.jpg)
The first Dewoitine D.520 fighter constructed for the French resistance was this machine coded '1' delivered to the 1st Groupe de Chasse 'Doret', a unit established by the 'resistance forces of the interior' (FFI) in the Toulouse region. Both the SNCASE (Dewoitine) and the Morane-Saulnier factory at Tarbes had been manufacturing D.520s for the Germans since 1943, but following the Allied landings in southern France (Provence) during August 1944, Morane Saulnier diverted construction to the newly established GC 1 of the FFI. The pictures were taken on 24 August 1944 and the pilot seen in front of the aircraft at Tarbes-Ossun is capitaine de réserve Jean Cliquet, who was previously chief pilot at Morane Saulnier. Note the cross of Lorraine on the rudder and the wing roundels.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MfaV_dlIGuw/TjKfwdX0RCI/AAAAAAAADIc/3fIwyhLQglo/s1600/d520FFI.jpg)
drool :x
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Did the HS404 have a poor record in the D.520?
My comment was based on the Finnish experiences with the HS404 in the Morane MS406.
The cannon didn't really like being used. It got worn out very quickly and it was found that the explosive shells were "too fast" ie. they exploded too early with slightest contact and this basically meant that the round exploded before entering the target. I recall a test where it was fired into large paper sheet target, the round exploded. Also it normally jammed after 5-10 rounds, though this was at least partly due to the poor pneumatic system of the MS406. The cannons were replaced first with Soviet 12.7mm Berezins and as that didn't work, with .50cals.
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My comment was based on the Finnish experiences with the HS404 in the Morane MS406.
The cannon didn't really like being used. It got worn out very quickly and it was found that the explosive shells were "too fast" ie. they exploded too early with slightest contact and this basically meant that the round exploded before entering the target. I recall a test where it was fired into large paper sheet target, the round exploded. Also it normally jammed after 5-10 rounds jammed, though this was at least partly due to the poor pneumatic system of the MS406. The cannons were replaced first with Soviet 12.7mm Berezins and as that didn't work, with .50cals.
Huh. Well, maybe the Brits fixed those issues.
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drool :x
Mee too.
TB posted these already in this thread, this just gives the info.
I believe there were 6 of these free french planes. 3 have been posted
:cheers:
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Other than the mounting problems in the Spitfire there were other issues with the early Hispanos the RAF received. An extensive revamp of the gun led to the Mk II which had better materials for things like the recoil springs and a resized chamber to allow the firing pin to strike more firmly. The Mk II was a reliable gun generally, although poor gun heating in the Spitfire could cause it to jam at high altitude due to ice forming on the breech. US built Hispanos were produced to the original French specs and were less reliable as a result.
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520GCII-18_zps9da94d20.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520FrontView_zpsdff10392.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520PilotS-CMysliwskich_zps9b7cb177.jpg)
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sexy was just wondering about this thread :)
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sexy was just wondering about this thread :)
Well ....It shot down at least 28 He-111 :t
:cheers:
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SGD1xa0-c2w/UESY2LDGSBI/AAAAAAAAVeA/mPCdrYzmNHc/s1600/D.520C-1+8.jpg)
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Mechanics working on planes that don't matter according to a certain Radioactve member of the BBS :banana:
(http://wdict.net/img/dewoitine+d.520,2.jpg)
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kGAqotpvwno/TzXAGMWRtjI/AAAAAAAADqQ/_tNrftb1fQM/s1600/D.520C-1+4.jpg)
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+1 it looks like a Spitfire and SirNuke will be happier than a pig in ****.
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+1 it looks like a Spitfire and SirNuke will be happier than a pig in ****.
good to see some of the brits see wisdome in the French. . . she is a pretty plane. . . a lot of potential if the French had some help.
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(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image030.jpg)
Assembly line Dewoitine D.520 Saint-Martin du Touch after the resumption of production in 1942
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image091.jpg)
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image093.jpg)
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image098.jpg)
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(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/Depart_Levant_fichiers/image024.jpg)
A rare photographs of Capt. Jacobi, commander of the 5th Squadron Stop by the Athens, May 27, 1941 - D.520 No. 229
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/Depart_Levant_fichiers/image025.jpg)
Dewoitine 520 GC III / 6 during refueling by mechanics of the Regia Aeronautica during the stopover in Rhodes May 27, 1941
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An Accounting for the D-520 with lots of profiles
http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/DEWOITINE%20D.520%20Numerotation%20&%20affectations.htm (http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/DEWOITINE%20D.520%20Numerotation%20&%20affectations.htm)
How to read this list:
NUMBER: Serial factory-A question mark indicates a problem
Ì Profile (s) unknown (s) Dewoitine D.520 with this serial number (double click on the button to see the image) (*)
UNITY Date of Assignment: Unit where the unit was successively considered optionally with an approximate date of assignment (months in any letter.) Note: Before the armistice, GC I / 3 had received his "good war "in late April 1940, the GC II / 3 and GC II / 7 end of May, GC III / 3 the first week of May and the GC III / 6 from 10 June
OBSERVATIONS - Location - Driver - Status: Place where the unit has been identified as photographed and date when it is known (in the format DD / MM / YYYY), Driver usual - Facts marking, condition of the aircraft, etc. . "Lost campaign ..." ... means that the unit may have been killed, injured, strafed or bombed to the ground, but most simply abandoned or scuttled during a downturn.
Green: good source of information (which does not exclude possible errors)
Orange: information more uncertain,
Blue: information of foreign origin not intersected.
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Translated from French
A young pilot officer GC III / 6 tells his contact with the D.520
In mid-June the GC III / 6, which was Luke from the beginning finally exchanged his Morane Saulnier MS 406 against the Dewoitine D.520 as expected. When the first detachment, including Jacobi, squadron leader of the 5th and the Gloan was returned, we started our tour to Toulouse. We laid us on June 15 at Francazal where we left our old Morane without regret. We were taken by bus to Toulouse where we took contact with the Dewoitine 520.
That they gave me was the No. 358. It was a beautiful aircraft, all metal, with a Hispano-Suiza engine with 12 cylinders in V with a power greater than the Morane, of the order of 920 CV. To compensate for the tilting moment (1) the engine was rotated 1 ° 30 'and the drift had an airfoil producing a compensation function of the speed.
He was armed with a 20 mm Hispano cannon firing in the axis of the helix, as the 406, but with a charger 80 explosive shells instead of 60, and four guns, with 2 in each wing with a belt loader 700 rounds per weapon instead of 350. They were heated. So we had 6 seconds of continuous shooting with the cannon (800 rounds / min) and 35 seconds with machine guns, which was significantly better than the 406.
The landing gear was mechanically locked in position "back" so no problem if ball from staying in the hydraulic circuit. It was a fast plane, credited with a speed of 550 km / h at an altitude of recovery (3), very fine to drive, which déclanchait (2) fairly easily, which veered well and were very healthy reactions . He could almost equal footing with the Me 109. If we had had at the beginning of the war, things would certainly have been different.
Amusing detail. The D.520 was equipped with a suitcase that took place in the fuselage behind the pilot. She had an interesting volume and it proved very useful during our travels by allowing us to take with us a lot of personal belongings.
When the grip on my new camera, I was surprised by the sensitivity of the rudder and I serpentais a little off, but I did it very quickly. After a few minutes of flight I returned Francazal ask that we left on patrol the next day to join the Luke. Upon landing, we were told what had happened the day before during our absence and how the Gloan and Assollant had been down 5 Italian aircraft in less than 45 minutes ...
Excerpts from the memoirs of Colonel John Menneglier, Flight Lieutenant to the 6th Squadron GC III / 6 in 1940 His Steed "Luke"
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image020.jpg)
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image021.jpg)
The DEWOITINE D.520 No. 358 will later be allocated to sub-lieutenant George Rivory in the fall of 1940 in Algiers White House
In this profile, we can distinguish the badge laughing mask of the 6th Squadron GC III / 6 of the drift and the baptismal name of the device "Quo Vadis" behind cockpit
This plane will be used later for the campaign of the Levant Lieutenant Leon Cuffaut GC II / 3 and will be destroyed by strafing June 26, 1941
Tranlstion of german/french to english... you get the gist.
A young German pilot of JG 101 training Pau speaks of D.520
"What comes first in mind, it is clear and syncopated revving engine Hispano Dewoitine 520's takeoff noise I could still easily recognize [...]. The plane terribly impressed us: it was a side "sharp" generator spectacular runway excursions and sometimes fatal rollovers. D.520 remained one off for many of us, a daily performance as its tendency to yaw crosswind could be difficult to counter. Already during taxiing, a simple blip coinciding with a bump or a gust of wind, enough to go on a wooden horse ...
With its wide track train (compared to the Messerschmitt 109) Dewoitine could be held easily. [landing gear]. It proved, however, be capricious operation: the most serious flaw that I found was a tendency of being not fully retract after takeoff. The wheels were blocked exactly in front of the air inlet radiator projecting under the fuselage and the engine temperature rose so quickly that I shook plane by small strokes stick forward to complete retraction of the train .. . If that was not enough, we had to take an emergency or select a field uncluttered.
But what plane! Very fine control pressures sufficient to pass any aerobatics and spinning a loop with two fingers. No German fighter of the time could offer such finesse, such elegance steering. After spotting the finer points of this thoroughbred, it remained for us to give us the joys of flying a real plane end performance yet very honest. Moreover, the Messerschmitt 109 G-6, with armor and weapons, I drove briefly in the late spring of 1944 was no more effective, and certainly less maneuverable.
Landing on Dewoitine 520 also asked some fingering, as the plane approached relatively quickly loaded m2. Because of this high speed landing, headed for disaster if we had not managed to put the bird in threshold ... [...]
This is definitely on Dewoitine 520 I had my greatest joys driver. A few months later, while I affrontai on a Focke Wulf 190 the formidable U.S. fighters over Germany, he often had to think with nostalgia in this agile little French fighter "
Extract AIR FAN # 31 (May 1981)
Feldwebel Ernst Schröder, survivor ll. / Sturm / JG 300
7 confirmed victories (6 Mustang, and a Stinson)
you can read the french version here
http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520.htm (http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520.htm)
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The one and only French plane in AH? Or would it be a token Vichy plane amongst the German set?
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Well to be fair it's service life was a great deal longer for the Vichy/Luftwaffe :D
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HTC can we get this Gem already ? :x
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The one and only French plane in AH? Or would it be a token Vichy plane amongst the German set?
Personaly Arlo,
Nope its a French plane.
I would like to see the whole French set. 2-3 fighters some jabo's and light buffs.
D.520
MS-406
MB-151-52
Briguet 693
Potez 631-5
LeO 451
One of the 1st in the war and not in the game :rolleyes:
Tragic,
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The 2 Navel groups which make 5 groups with the D-520
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image028.jpg)
The Air Force of the armistice - D.520 naval aviation - Squadrons "1AC" and "2AC" - Morocco - 1942/1943
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ESC 1 GC 2/1 D-520 #517 Le Luc August 1942
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D-520ReaperEsc1GC2-1_zps8f36ddbf.jpg)
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Well to be fair it's service life was a great deal longer for the Vichy/Luftwaffe :D
Yeah it could be like the B-239 :D cept 710 more made :t
Not,
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Yeah it could be like the B-239 :D cept 710 more made :t
Not,
Now, before I continue, I'd like to say that I'd like to see the D.520 added in the near future.
That said, your quip about the B-239 makes me ask which got more kills? Or even kills plus losses combined. I'd lay money it is the B-239 that wins that, and by a large margin, maybe even an order of magnitude. That would make the B-239 the more significant aircraft, historically speaking, no?
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Now, before I continue, I'd like to say that I'd like to see the D.520 added in the near future.
That said, your quip about the B-239 makes me ask which got more kills? Or even kills plus losses combined. I'd lay money it is the B-239 that wins that, and by a large margin, maybe even an order of magnitude. That would make the B-239 the more significant aircraft, historically speaking, no?
When the French pilots shot down a plane they credited who shot the plane. Sometimes up to 4-5 pilots are credited on a single kill.
It would be nice to have the Soviet loss records for that period so we could compare.. but sadly we dont.
Just sayin,
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It would be nice to have the Soviet loss records for that period so we could compare.. but sadly we dont.
Just sayin,
Erm, Soviet loss records have been cross examined against Finnish claims. The Finns claimed fewer kills than the Soviets recorded losses. The Finnish Air Force is the only air force from WWII for which that is true, so far as I know.
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Erm, Soviet loss records have been cross examined against Finnish claims. The Finns claimed fewer kills than the Soviets recorded losses. The Finnish Air Force is the only air force from WWII for which that is true, so far as I know.
Show me
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Show me
How about you show me? You're the one that implied the Finnish claims were BS.
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How about you show me? You're the one that implied the Finnish claims were BS.
I can't ..It doesn't exist.... far as I know.
Show me as far as you know ... what I stated is fact ... you... Unsubstantiated claim in "Finnish Aces" shall I provide the paragraph for you?
So ....if you can provide for me an accurate picture please do. You brought it up! I was just joking with Phan :D
To have an accurate picture about actual victories and losses on both sides, one needs to compare actual losses with the kill claims from the other side to get an accurate picture.
Enlighten Us,
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+1 it looks like a Spitfire and SirNuke will be happier than a pig in ****.
Little smaller than a 109... think he will trade in his 51? :confused:
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/image050.jpg)
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GC II/7
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image104.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520GCII-7Panther_zpsdd6b246f.jpg)
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HTC can we get this Gem already ? :x
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520HTPlease_zps1cafcf52.jpg)
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-1 still, untill we update what we have already (graphically and ordnance options) at the very least. I would also like to see some others added before this, such as the Ki-44, Yak-9D, Yak-7 and Yak-7B, B6N and D4Y, and maybe a MiG-3.
And though I'll likely catch more flak than a daylight bombing raid for this, I'd also personally like to see the IAR-80 added before the D.520.
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I see very little return of invest in the Dewoitine.
As far as the arenas go, the cannon's short clip alone will keep it very very rare there. I don't see much scenario/special event potential either largely for the same reason and due to the fact that Hawk75A was more important fighter for the French during BoF and would require less resources to add due to the fact that much of the 3d art work is done with the P-40C. Then there's the Syria-Lebanon campaign and operation Torch. Somehow, I don't see anyone doing the former but who knows, the problem is that even with the Dewoitine in the game a lot of the aircraft participating would have to be subbed. As far as the Torch goes, if we want some unpopular axis-seats for that FSO/Scenario I guess that's a good reason to add it. :) Eastern front events easily do without it.
I understand if the French AH fliers want the best French built fighter of the war but as I said, I see the return for the invest very poor.
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http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=551
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Been flying it for a decade........it is sweet and hits pretty hard for an early war plane but I do agree with maybe a couple of early war russian planes before it's inclusion.
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I see very little return of invest in the Dewoitine.
As far as the arenas go, the cannon's short clip alone will keep it very very rare there. I don't see much scenario/special event potential either largely for the same reason and due to the fact that Hawk75A was more important fighter for the French during BoF and would require less resources to add due to the fact that much of the 3d art work is done with the P-40C. Then there's the Syria-Lebanon campaign and operation Torch. Somehow, I don't see anyone doing the former but who knows, the problem is that even with the Dewoitine in the game a lot of the aircraft participating would have to be subbed. As far as the Torch goes, if we want some unpopular axis-seats for that FSO/Scenario I guess that's a good reason to add it. :) Eastern front events easily do without it.
I understand if the French AH fliers want the best French built fighter of the war but as I said, I see the return for the invest very poor.
They could always give it the brewster treatment.
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I'd love to fly this and distribute hispano powered french kisses with it but, if I had to choose something french added to the game I'd probably go with a late WWI SPAD.
That said the roll rate of a 190A combined with the turns of a spifire and such looks makes me drool :P
Note that IMO a center line 60rpg cannon is a superior armament that 2 wing cannons with 60rpg like the spitV...but I should comparing with the spit mk1 and then there is no contest.
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In one of Meglodon's posts of translated stuff the French pilot said the D.520 had an 80 round magazine for its cannon which he liked compared to the 60 round magazines in the MS.406.
Was he mistaken?
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They could always give it the brewster treatment.
And what treatment would that be?
ack-ack
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I see very little return of invest in the Dewoitine.
As far as the arenas go, the cannon's short clip alone will keep it very very rare there. I don't see much scenario/special event potential either largely for the same reason and due to the fact that Hawk75A was more important fighter for the French during BoF and would require less resources to add due to the fact that much of the 3d art work is done with the P-40C. Then there's the Syria-Lebanon campaign and operation Torch. Somehow, I don't see anyone doing the former but who knows, the problem is that even with the Dewoitine in the game a lot of the aircraft participating would have to be subbed. As far as the Torch goes, if we want some unpopular axis-seats for that FSO/Scenario I guess that's a good reason to add it. :) Eastern front events easily do without it.
I understand if the French AH fliers want the best French built fighter of the war but as I said, I see the return for the invest very poor.
Perkele!!! shhhhhhhh you got your beloved Brewster let the french have one now :bolt:
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In one of Meglodon's posts of translated stuff the French pilot said the D.520 had an 80 round magazine for its cannon which he liked compared to the 60 round magazines in the MS.406.
Was he mistaken?
I don't know, all I've read before was that the drum magazine had a fixed capacity of 60 rounds, and that amount did not increase until a belt fed system was introduced.
EDIT: I'm saving megalodon's link, and I will read it later on
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Dennis Ponteins D520 #273 Shark Mouth
http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/Ponteins.pdf (http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/Ponteins.pdf)
http://www.cieldegloire.com/004_ponteins_d.php (http://www.cieldegloire.com/004_ponteins_d.php)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d-520cheifdennismay40.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520DenisPotiensSharkMouth_zps5568dd82.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D520DenisPontiensSharkMouthPlane_zps27b384b4.jpg)
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very nice :cheers:
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520mummy_zps45bb6d72.jpg)
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EDIT: I'm saving megalodon's link, and I will read it later on
Pretty sure that is what it says :)... But you may translate it for us more eloquently ... ;) I believe it also say the D-520 would flame the 109 <maybe that was the german guy> :aok
"Un jeune officier pilote du GC III/6 raconte sa prise de contact avec le D.520
A la mi-juin le GC III/6 qui était au Luc depuis le début du mois échangea enfin ses Morane Saulnier MS 406 contre les Dewoitine D.520 tant attendus. Dès que le premier détachement, dont Jacobi, chef d’escadrille de la 5ème, et Le Gloan, fut rentré, nous partîmes à notre tour vers Toulouse. Nous nous posâmes le 15 juin à Francazal où nous abandonnâmes sans regret nos vieux Morane. On nous conduisit en car à Blagnac où nous prîmes contact avec le Dewoitine 520.
Celui qu'on me donna portait le N° 358. C'était un avion magnifique, entièrement métallique, équipé d'un moteur Hispano-Suiza de 12 cylindres en V d'une puissance supérieure à celle du Morane, de l'ordre de 920 CV. Pour compenser le couple de renversement (1) le moteur était décalé de 1°30' et la dérive avait un profil d'aile produisant une compensation en fonction de la vitesse.
Il était armé d'un canon Hispano de 20 mm tirant dans l'axe de l'hélice, comme le 406, mais avec un chargeur de 80 obus explosifs au lieu de 60, et de 4 mitrailleuses, à raison de 2 dans chaque aile, avec un chargeur à bande de 700 cartouches par arme au lieu de 350. Celles-ci étaient réchauffées. On avait donc 6 secondes de tir continu avec le canon (800 coups/min) et 35 secondes avec les mitrailleuses, ce qui était nettement mieux que le 406.
Le train d'atterrissage était verrouillé mécaniquement en position « rentré » donc sans problème en cas de balle venant de loger dans le circuit hydraulique. C'était un avion rapide, crédité d'une vitesse de 550 km/h à l'altitude de rétablissement (3), très fin à piloter, qui déclanchait (2) assez facilement, qui virait bien et qui avait des réactions très saines. Il pouvait faire quasiment jeu égal avec le Me 109. Si nous l'avions eu au début de la guerre, les choses se seraient certainement passées autrement.
Détail amusant. Le D.520 était équipé d'une valise qui prenait place dans le fuselage derrière le pilote. Elle avait un volume intéressant et elle se révéla bien pratique lors de nos déplacements en nous permettant d'emmener avec nous pas mal d’effets personnels.
Lors de la prise en main de mon nouvel appareil, je fus surpris par la sensibilité du gouvernail de direction et je serpentais un peu au décollage, mais je m'y fis très vite. Après quelques minutes de vol je revins me poser à Francazal que nous quittâmes en patrouille le lendemain pour rejoindre le Luc. Dès l'atterrissage, on nous raconta ce qui s'était passé la veille pendant notre absence et comment Le Gloan et Assollant avaient pu abattre 5 avions italiens en moins de 45 minutes...
Extraits des mémoires du colonel Jean Menneglier, lieutenant pilote à la 6ème escadrille du GC III/6 en 1940
Merci à son fils Philippe de nous avoir transmis ce récit"
:airplane:
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(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/Depart_Levant_fichiers/image042.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520interior_zps9964dce6.jpg)
GC II/1 D520 #523
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions4/D520-14f.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/Avions4/D520-15f.jpg)
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(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/6413/d520wip17.jpg)
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HTC ADD IT!! and the boomerang!!
Give us the things that make the fan boys ask "what is THIS!?" :rock
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520V_zpsb929dfa3.jpg)
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Bustr?
OPL RX 31
OPL RX 39, 391 or 393? reflector Gun sight ..Nicknamed "The Lantern"?
(http://d.lancien.free.fr/75.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520sight_zpsdea3f4df.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d520sight2_zps93a81987.jpg)
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d52017_zps6575bfe0.jpg)
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I've got the OPL if HTC has the ride............
France had two reticle. The one shown and then a later reticle set of 7 that were swapped out by hand to account for 7 set speeds of the con. Basically this reticle but with small circles at the end of the radial lines which for each speed a straight line radiated out to a small circle at the projected hold off. Very few pilots used that and preferred the one I've posted.
French OPL Gunsight
(http://imageshack.us/a/img19/261/frnopl.gif)
The "Optique de précision de Levallois modèle 1939" called "OPL "RX 39", "RX.391" or "RX.393". It was mostly used in the Dewoitine D 520 and the Arsenal VG33 but was also seen on the Hawk H-75 and the MB 152.
OPL RX 39 in D.520
(http://imageshack.us/a/img15/6061/oplrx39.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img689/4958/opl.gif)
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Thanx Bustr! <S>
What did the OPL RX 31 look like?
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You want snails with your OPL??
OPL RX 31
(http://imageshack.us/a/img90/2749/opl1931.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img853/2310/skan005.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img521/1082/ms1.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img594/1206/opl3100.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/9907/opl3103.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img89/9554/opl3101.gif)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/7395/gh38dushaa.gif)
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May we have our Dewotine Please!
(http://www.simulation-france-magazine.com/fichiers/Photos%20Perruquet/Perruquet5.jpg)
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The French had planes in WWII?
jk yes +1
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(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3596/vweq.jpg)
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The French had planes in WWII?
jk yes +1
:rofl
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(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3596/vweq.jpg)
sweet paintjob
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sweet paintjob
The French have always been a fashion conscious lot. :D
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Shouldn't the French have their own plane now since the yak-3 is using the normandie-niemen skin?
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I figured every French plane would have a tail gun so it could at least fire while retreating. ;)
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Shouldn't the French have their own plane now since the yak-3 is using the normandie-niemen skin?
Think of it as a French plane. It has a French pilot. Vive le Ru .... er France.
(It stays under the Russian plane list, though. Just like Russian P-39s, P-40s, Hurricanes etc. stay under their respective country lists.) :D
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May we have our Dewotine Please!
(http://www.simulation-france-magazine.com/fichiers/Photos%20Perruquet/Perruquet5.jpg)
Is that a marching band in front of that plane? :D
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I figured every French plane would have a tail gun so it could at least fire while retreating. ;)
You might care to investigate the reasons for this modern conception. You might be surprised BluBerry!
I feel now that the Yak-3 has been added, you guys might even be getting closer to having your bird added. Hope you get it! :rock
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Think of it as a French plane. It has a French pilot. Vive le Ru .... er France.
(It stays under the Russian plane list, though. Just like Russian P-39s, P-40s, Hurricanes etc. stay under their respective country lists.) :D
Like the Brewster? :lol
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Is that a marching band in front of that plane? :D
No silly that's the Symphony see the conductors Baton.
This is the Band
"We would like our D.520"
(http://www.simulation-france-magazine.com/fichiers/Photos%20Perruquet/Perruquet6.jpg)
The Band,
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You might care to investigate the reasons for this modern conception. You might be surprised BluBerry!
I feel now that the Yak-3 has been added, you guys might even be getting closer to having your bird added. Hope you get it! :rock
Thank you Nrshida, I hope so...
:cheers:
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Like the Brewster? :lol
There you go, exactly.
(Arlo points out the 'Made in America' stamp.) :D
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There is only one unit in AH that seems to violate that in HTC's lists. Even the Sherman VC is listed as an American tank, but for some reason the Boston Mk III is listed as British.
The list I maintain for myself lists the Brewster as Finnish and the Sherman VC and Boston Mk III as British.
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Well, the perspective of the list belongs to the creator of the list, I reckon. I suppose HT's trumps ours, though. He could change it, if he wanted. My chips are on the not part but then this isn't a random roulette wheel.
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(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7790/wcto.jpg)
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d-520Recaptured_zps027183cc.jpg)
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i can has please
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that spotty camo looks nice
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still wishing
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8109/dstb.jpg)
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still wishing
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8109/dstb.jpg)
:aok
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/D-520_zpsfe962327.png)
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/marceD520-1_zps02f1d1dc.jpg)
"A young Marcel with a D.520 top French Ace of World War II"
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+1 :aok
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I've always thought the cockpit behind the wing position gave them a cool look.
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I've always thought the cockpit behind the wing position gave them a cool look.
Yes. But looks like it also gave them wretched visibility to the front and below.
- oldman
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:salute im still wondering when we can get French planes in the game. d520 would be a good start. :cheers:
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what in-game plane is the 520 comparable to in performance and handling?
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Bf 109E-4 looks to have a similar top speed, and based on a quick trip to wiki, the D.520 would be a tad more maneuverable but with a nasty stall.
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As French resistance to the German advance began to collapse, between the 18th and 20th of June, GC I/3, II/3, III/3, III/6, and II/7 flew their aircraft to North Africa. 153 machines remained behind in unoccupied France. Three D.520s of GC III/7 escaped to Britain and were incorporated into the Free French 1st Fighter Group formed at RAF Odiham.
After the Armistice, the German victors allowed the Vichy government to maintain a reduced air force. Under the terms of the agreement, no D.520 unit was to remain in service on the French mainland, and all surviving D.520 aircraft in France were dispersed and stored. In North Africa, GC I/3, II/3, III/6, and III/7 as well as Aeronavale Escadrille 1AC and 2AC(the former AC1 and 2) were allowed to remain in service with their D.520s.
In April 1941, the German authorities agreed to allow the resumption of aircraft manufacture in unoccupied France. When SNCAM was dissolved, its plants were absorbed by S.N.C.A. du Sud-Est (SNCASE). The Vichy Air Force adopted the D.520 as its standard fighter, and the German Armistice Commission permitted production of the D.520 to resume at Toulouse-Blagnac. 550 D.520s were ordered on June 23rd. They were to replace all other single-seat fighters in service in Vichy, and in a second stage of the program, the D.520 was to equip newly-formed units. By the middle of 1943, it was anticipated that the Vichy government would be able to field an Armistice Air Force equipped with 17 D.520-equipped Groupes with 442 front-line aircraft, three Aeronavale Escadrilles with 37 aircraft, plus 3 training units with 13 aircraft.
The first batch of 22 aircraft was delivered in August of 1941. In 1942, the D.520 number 465 was flown with an improved Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine, a modified radiator, and inboard hinged wheel doors. By December 31, 1942, 349 aircraft had been delivered, 197 of which were powered by the 12Y-49 engine. This brought total production of the D.520 to 775 aircraft.
By October of 1942, nine Vichy Groupes de Chasse had been equipped with the D.520. In addition, the 1o Flotille de Chasse had been equipped with the D.520. Vichy D.520s saw some action against British forces in the Levant and had escorted Vichy bombers in an attack on Gibraltar.
GC III/6 and II/3 took part in operations in Syria in June-July 1941. They were later joined by Escadrille 1AC. During that operation, they saw combat against RAF aircraft. GC III/6 was credited with 19 confirmed kills and four probables. GC II/2 was credited with three confirmed kills and two probables. Esc. IAC was credited with eight kills. Vichy D.520 losses totaled 32, with 11 being shot down, 12 lost in accidents, 7 being destroyed in the ground, and two being abandoned in Syria when the fighter units flew back to French North Africa.
At the time of the Operation Torch Anglo-American landings in North Africa in November of 1942, 234 D.520s were in unoccupied France (of which 93 were in service), 173 were in North Africa, and 30 were in Senegal. French-based D.520 units comprised GCs I/1, II/1, and III/9 (which had recently received the D.520 in place of its Bloch 152s), and I/2. GC I/2 escaped with 24 aircraft to Meknes on November 9 to avoid capture by German forces. In North Africa, D.520s equipped GCs II/3, III/3 (formerly I/3, its designation being changed at German request since three of its pilots had fled to Gibraltar on October 14, 1941), III/6, II/7, and II/5 Aeronavale IF Flotille (comprising Escadrilles 1AC and 2AC) was also based in Africa.
The Allied landings gave rise to fratricidal air battles in which the D.520s of GC III/3 and II/5 were involved, as well as those of 1F Flotille and the Hawk 75s of GC I/5 and II/5. Losses were heavy on both sides. The Aeronavale lost 19 Dewoitines and seven Martin bombers, and the Armistice Air Force lost 16 D.520s and Hawks. Allied air forces lost 44 aircraft during these clashes.
In response to the Allied landings in North Africa, German forces invaded Unoccupied France in November of 1942. On November 27th, all French armed forces were disbanded and all existing D.520s were seized. This included 246 D.520s serving with Vichy units, plus 169 D.520s in various stages of completion at SNCASE.
Some of these seized D.520s were transferred to two Luftwaffe fighter training units (JG-103 and JG-105). They were highly praised by Luftwaffe crews for their exceptional maneuverability. However, the accident rate was fairly high owing to the great differences between it and the German aircraft to which the pilots were accustomed.
Sixty D.520s were transferred to the Regia Aeronautica, and were operated primarily as fighter trainers by Gruppi 13, 22, 24, and 167. About a hundred D.520s were issued to the Bulgarian Air Force, which used them operationally against the US 9th Air Force. Most of these were lost in combat. The Rumanian Air Force operated a small batch of D.520s in combat on the Eastern Front, flying them alongside that air force's Bf 109s.
Upon the liberation of Southwestern France, a French FFI (Forces Francaises de l'Interieur) fighter Groupe was formed with D.520s that had been captured from the retreating enemy. This unit took part in attacks on retreating German units and provided escort for Allied bombers and strafed artillery positions. In March of 1945, this unit reequipped with the Spitfire Vb, and its D.520s were transferred to GC B I/18 and to a training unit. About 55 D.520s were recovered from the Luftwaffe as the Allied forces advanced eastward, which were later reinforced by another 20 which were brought back from North Africa.
In postwar years, the D.520 continued to serve with training units in the revived Armee de l'Air. Several were converted to two-seat configuration under the designation D.520 DC (for "double commande"). The last unit to fly the D.520 was the Escadrille de Presentation de l'Armee de l'Air (EPAA), which had previously flown Yak 3s brought back to France from the Soviet Union by the Normandie-Niemen regiment. The last D.520 was finally withdrawn from service in September of 1953.
Four D.520s are known to exist ca 1966. No. 408 belongs to the Musee de l'Air, No. 603 is on display at the Ecole de l'Air, No. 650 (a DC) is on display at Etampes-Mondesir, and No. 862 is on display at the Luxeuil-Saint Sauveur Air Base.
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I'm on your bandwagon as soon as the Italian plane set gets a couple more fighters, an attack plane and a bomber. :aok
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I'm on your bandwagon as soon as the Italian plane set gets a couple more fighters, an attack plane and a bomber. :aok
I'm with you but ....the I-talians have 2 planes all ready and the French, who entered the war 1st, have none :headscratch: :D
Fill the French plane set and then add more Italian stuff like the SM.81.
:cheers:
BTW....765 Dewoitine D-520 built
265 Macchi C.205 built
Italy got 60 of these :D
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8784/d52097f.jpg)
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I'm with you but ....the I-talians have 2 planes all ready and the French, who entered the war 1st, have none :headscratch: :D
Fill the French plane set and then add more Italian stuff like the SM.81.
:cheers:
BTW....765 Dewoitine D-520 built
265 Macchi C.205 built
+1
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I'm with you but ....the I-talians have 2 planes all ready and the French, who entered the war 1st, have none :headscratch: :D
Fill the French plane set and then add more Italian stuff like the SM.81.
:cheers:
BTW....765 Dewoitine D-520 built
265 Macchi C.205 built
Italy got 60 of these :D
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8784/d52097f.jpg)
Guess your not looking for more on your bandwagon. ;)
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Guess your not looking for more on your bandwagon. ;)
What? I said I'm with you!!
Common be nice,
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What? I said I'm with you!!
Common be nice,
I thought I offered reasonable terms to support your cause. Your response was basically 'Sure except no, I want mine first."
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I thought I offered reasonable terms to support your cause. Your response was basically 'Sure except no, I want mine first."
Well you have 2 planes... who's being stingy here? 1 that's 1/3 the production of the D-520
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/start-finish-builds/254469d1389480494t-dewoitine-d-520-under-italian-flag-azur-kit-1-32-6-rosso-dett-res.jpg)
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Well you have 2 planes... who's being stingy here? 1 that's 1/3 the production of the D-520
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. :D
I'm on your bandwagon as soon as the Italian plane set gets a couple more fighters, an attack plane and a bomber. :aok
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I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. :D
:lol and I said stuff your 4 or 5 more new I-talian planes and give us a D-520 1st :)
Obviously a language barrier,
:cheers:
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc20/AJeffreyAZ/D520Italian.jpg)
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Obviously a language barrier,
:cheers:
Obviously .... but not mine. When you want me on team Dewoitine you know what to do and how to reach me. :D
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Obviously .... but not mine. When you want me on team Dewoitine you know what to do and how to reach me. :D
Hey you felt the need to post in the thread the need to be on my bandwagon?
:cheers: Arlo,
Have a nice day
(http://stormomagazine.com/Forum/D520.jpg)
Red Nose D-520
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Hey you felt the need to post in the thread the need to be on my bandwagon?
Not a need, friend. An offer. It's also a way you can build a support base. I reckon the pain you would endure seeing 4 or 5 (or even 3) new Italian planes built at the Dewoitine's expense would diminish if you finally had enough support from the Italian plane set crowd to help your wish become more than just an ongoing thread. ;)
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Not a need, friend. An offer. It's also a way you can build a support base. I reckon the pain you would endure seeing 4 or 5 (or even 3) new Italian planes built at the Dewoitine's expense would diminish if you finally had enough support from the Italian plane set crowd to help your wish become more than just an ongoing thread. ;)
lol yeah there are so many of you.........like I said who's being stingy Arlo?
:cheers:
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lol yeah there are so many of you.........like I said who's being stingy Arlo?
:cheers:
Good luck with that model. :aok
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Good luck with that model. :aok
Let me go count the +1's in this thread......
Those damn Italians... Pilot turns back ....mechanic takes a swig
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/trotta/D520-20.jpg)
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I would be giddy with delight if I saw this plane and mig3 in game.
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:aok
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The Italian plane set has been ignored for far too many years.
+1 :aok
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The Italian plane set has been ignored for far too many years.
+1 :aok
S'what I simply said. Just get it to a decent level then wth, throw a French plane in (which is the most serious consideration I've given that, to date). I figured it would be considered a welcome compromise. :aok
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The Italian plane set has been ignored for far too many years.......
+1 :aok
.........while the French plane set has just been ignored completely!
:cheers:
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S'what I simply said. Just get it to a decent level then wth, throw a French plane in (which is the most serious consideration I've given that, to date). I figured it would be considered a welcome compromise. :aok
And I simply said You already have a couple Italian planes Lets have a French plane or 2 and then you can go get your hanger queen sm79 :aok
Sounds Fair,
:cheers:
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And I simply said You already have a couple Italian planes Lets have a French plane or 2 and then you can go get your hanger queen sm79 :aok
Sounds Fair,
:cheers:
You're not very good at this. Face it. A French plane set isn't really all that important. Yes, less important than an Italian one. I offered a concession that was more important to your interest than to mine. :D
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You're not very good at this. Face it. A French plane set isn't really all that important. Yes, less important than an Italian one. I offered a concession that was more important to your interest than to mine. :D
This thread isn't for more I-talian planes make your own thread
Move Along,
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This thread isn't for more I-talian planes make your own thread
Move Along,
I'd support ya, if. :D
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Sure, why not?
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We do need diversity on AH. More countries beside a U.S, Brit and Germany dominant equipment.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BkfNIQ0EaiE/THd7sOD2icI/AAAAAAAAAH0/t68Idvc_QwE/s1600/11+Bf+109F-4+R6.jpg)
Hard to fight against superior equipment. :neener:
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BkfNIQ0EaiE/THd7sOD2icI/AAAAAAAAAH0/t68Idvc_QwE/s1600/11+Bf+109F-4+R6.jpg)
Hard to fight against superior equipment. :neener:
The Russians (La-7, Il-2, T-34/85, Tu-2S, Yak-3 and Yak-9U) and Japanese (Ki-84-Ia and N1K2-J) also have some competitive units in the game.
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And These!
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The Russians (La-7, Il-2, T-34/85, Tu-2S, Yak-3 and Yak-9U) and Japanese (Ki-84-Ia and N1K2-J) also have some competitive units in the game.
The LA7 needs to be perked and the Yak-3 needs an ENY of 5 and to be perked, but again, this is for another thread...
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So this where arlo went to boost his post count. :uhoh
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-1. This AC had an insignificant impact in WW2. There are many other AC produced in large numbers that would better serve the game on the whole.
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-1. This AC had an insignificant impact in WW2. There are many other AC produced in large numbers that would better serve the game on the whole.
Like your D23 :rolleyes:?
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I don't think this AC should even be considered for inclusion until other higher priority AC are added.
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I don't think this AC should even be considered for inclusion until other higher priority AC are added.
Just posting this in every thread makes you look like a petulant child who isn't getting his way.
Try actual arguments in support of your position. Suggest things that you think should be higher priority and why.
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Like your D23 :rolleyes:?
D-23 hell ........P-47m in the game 1 month at war 150 built? :rofl
Talk about insignificant .......D520 has more kills in just the battle of france than the 47m total? :rofl
Hey Ammo,
Fin
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-1
Fixed
It and a couple of others you probable don't think should be included would expand the country plane set and prospective players
Just say you don't like the French and move on!
:cheers:
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D.520 and IAR.80 should be the next two planes added to the game :banana:!
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D.520 and IAR.80 should be the next two planes added to the game :banana:!
Hungary built there own version of the Re:2000 Mávag Héja II ...completely made in Hungary and in different proportions they produced 200 <50 more than the insignificant P-47M> and fought and died in the same manner as every1 else did in WWII insignificantly.
(http://jozsefvarosanno.ucoz.com/ganzmavag/mavag_heja_ii.jpg)
And as we Know the Aussie's had there insignificant Boomerang that they used for 3 years and made 250 of <100 more than the insignificant P-47M> that they are very proud of and would probable like to fly.
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You're hurting your argument with constant whining about the P-47M. HTC explained that it was added only due to the lack of need for 3D model work when it was added. You are comparing completely new 3D models with a reused P-47D-40 3D model.
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You're hurting your argument with constant whining about the P-47M. HTC explained that it was added only due to the lack of need for 3D model work when it was added. You are comparing completely new 3D models with a reused P-47D-40 3D model.
I'm hitting it for ammo sake and the 47m was insignifecent not as bad as the ta-152 ....go away!
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I'm hitting it for ammo sake and the 47m was insignifecent not as bad as the ta-152 ....go away!
Don't think that will help really. He is on the warpath about the P-47D-23. Not sure he cares about the M.
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Fixed
It and a couple of others you probable don't think should be included would expand the country plane set and prospective players
Just say you don't like the French and move on!
:cheers:
Got nothing against the French. Their automobiles are amazing! Take that Renaught Clio for example :D
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And Australia was still part of the British commonwealth ..... still even .... even still (RAAF/ANZACs are represented in AH just fine). :aok
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/aussie_planes_in_AH_zpsd7441cd7.png)
As you see.
Meg, you can surely make a better argument for the Dewoitine D.520 than attempting to tie it to Australia's coat tails (or project a need to include every nation that had an airplane in WWII). :D
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Got nothing against the French. Their automobiles are amazing! Take that Renaught Clio for example :D
I watched a guy fly a Citroën of a cliff above a horse boarding stable once as a youngster... they make awesome flying cars as well :D
We should get at least 3 French fighters in the plane set :)
D.520
MS-406
MB-152/155
:cheers:
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The D520 is often disregarded because it was an early war fighter, and it wasn't used/continually produced. Building it will not reach new subscribers from France :rofl
Yet, it is the best France at to offer early war and was far from ridiculous as far as performances/weapons go. 1 20mm Cannon and 4 Mgs. It did produce Aces, it did shot down more advance fighters when used by Vichy and Allies alike.
France did play a center role in WW2 and as such should have it's lead fighter represented in Aces High. And I honestly think it'll be a fun plane in Aces High from time to time like the C202, I16, Brew. I was bummed out when I learned that it was discarded by Hitech's.
Comes with a variety of colorfull camoed paintschemes, even shamefull ones :uhoh
(http://rsmodels.cz/galerie/produkty/92113/6cc5lk4hvw_large.jpg)
As far as the D23 ... hehehe ... I'm 56FG after all ... it's maybe like the 109F4, the most performant turnfighter of the line, the Paddle Prop, the benefits of the razorback aerodynamics and the hardpoints of the Bubbletops. If you call it insignificant, you should wonder why most of the skins of the D11 are D23s. :D
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I was bummed
Not to stir sensationalistic journalism but that's a page 3 story. :old:
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:D
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I was deployed to RAF Fairford for DESERT STORM. While there, the highlight of our day was when the Brit that hauled the trailer full of bombs down from Welford would give us a copy of that day's Sun. We turned directly to page 3. Teets are good.
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(http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/listinmae/images/stories/ListinMAE/appareils/dewoitine/d520n603/d520bordeauxvol001.jpg)
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Comes with a variety of colorfull camoed paintschemes, even shamefull ones :uhoh
(http://rsmodels.cz/galerie/produkty/92113/6cc5lk4hvw_large.jpg)
lol :D
Some are pretty and some as hideous as the P47-N/D40s colors.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1200x675q90/661/fTet68.jpg)
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Do the ailerons drop along with the flaps? Looks like it from that landing photo. Wonder what that will do in the MA in our style of aerobatic silliness to have your ailerons droop along with the flaps?
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But the boomerang is cooler. :devil
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1200x675q90/661/fTet68.jpg)
Wait are we getting the D.520???
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But the boomerang is cooler. :devil
The boomerang would be more effective, but does not look nearly as good, and doesn't have a soul whatsoever.
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Doestooooooooooo_zpsa8dd80cf.png)
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The boomerang would be more effective, but does not look nearly as good, and doesn't have a soul whatsoever.
The Boomerang may be short and stocky but it has nice lines over all.
The 520 is lean and more angular, but sort of clumsy looking with that long straight cowl and cockpit set so far back.
You're seeing things through French colored glasses. :neener:
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I'll bet when you pull the trigger, the Boomerang cockpit smells like an old bull crock snorting rancid cordite stuffed wallaby. But, the D.520 smells like front row to a Can Can at Madame GiGi's. The D.520 looks like something Toulouse-Lautrec would put on canvas.
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Guys please don't hijack this is a D.520 thread. There is a separate Boomerang thread
back on track
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h5EHUdoHkKU/TzXAChwt5YI/AAAAAAAADqA/pqjiypFkcyc/s1600/D.520C-1+073+1.jpg)
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Can we add this already?
(http://www.imagesup.net/?di=314194536783)
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I always vote for more early war planes.
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The D.520 would be an excellent addition to the early war plane set. Hopefully its' introduction would lead the way for others like the C200 and Ki-27.
+100
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+1
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For the love of fine French dining everywhere. We need this plane to balance our ball park franks, bratwurst, fish n chips, rice balls, pasta, borsht and reindeer oysters.
And while you are at it Waffle, I'd like a side of crock tail and wallaby stew...... :devil
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Agreed! :old:
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(http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/08/18/09/resize_550_550//D-520-Wesolowski-1.jpg)
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Cool pic!
The paint jobs have a German look to them.
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+1 I think this bird would be an excellent addition to the collection.
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That is a long way from spinner to seat. +1 I had no idea, and thanks for the history, seems like its usually so glossed over that you'd think all that happened is the Bish er British saved their planes for the BOB after losing a bunch over France and that French planes were the Le Cars of the skies.
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Id fly it +1
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+1
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Still Waitnig
(https://s24.postimg.org/uxy2qon1h/image.jpg)
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surprised this post is still getting votes and bumped. I think that means that the 520 is meant to be HT :cheers:
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Hey HTC WE ARE READY ANY NEWS?
(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/canso-forum/Diorama%20March%2030%201944/BulgarianD520nr12_zpse4534bc3.jpg~original)
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Who all's 'we?' ;)
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Who all's 'we?' ;)
Twin carries a mouse in his pocket. They say he looks just like twin does..... hence the name I guess :devil
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Lol. I love this community.
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PLEASE HTC!!!
32 PAGES AND 6 YEARS PLEASE, With sugar on top!!!
:bolt:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/67jvir.jpg)
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:rock
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+1
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+1
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PLEASE HTC!!!
32 PAGES AND 6 YEARS PLEASE, With sugar on top!!!
You are half way there to the Beaufighter page count. Keep at it.
... wait! we did not get a Beaufighter yet! :mad: :bhead
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I saw a scale model of this and took the fusalage out of the box to look at it. It looks small in photographs but it isn't. The cockpit is huge! Must be to make room for the berets and pipes of the pilots. :old:
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I saw a scale model of this and took the fusalage out of the box to look at it. It looks small in photographs but it isn't. The cockpit is huge! Must be to make room for the berets and pipes of the pilots. :old:
French flight suits were unusually bulky due to their padded, reversible design (outside 'temporarily Allied/inside temporarily Vichy').
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French flight suits were unusually bulky due to their padded, reversible design (outside 'temporarily Allied/inside temporarily Vichy').
Somewhat similar to Italian uniforms then?
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Somewhat similar to Italian uniforms then?
With the exception of the Italians not experiencing any sort of time out.
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With the exception...
Well of course there would be.
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Well of course there would be.
No ... of course there was. :)
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"Sophism-lite. The new multipurpose paint to cover all your unsightly biases".
I do hope this French plane gets added before any more poorly-designed Italian aircraft.
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"Sophism-lite. The new multipurpose paint to cover all your unsightly biases".
Sophism: a fallacious argument, especially one used deliberately to deceive.
Well that's rather ironic, in itself.
I do hope this French plane gets added before any more poorly-designed Italian aircraft.
Why (other than you apparently have unresolved issues with me)? :)
Poorly designed comparison:
Dewoitine D.520
Performance
Maximum speed: 560 km/h (302 kn, 347 mph)
Range: 1,250 km (675 nmi, 777 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (33,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 14.3 m/s (2,820 ft/min)
Wing loading: 167 kg/m2 (34.2 lb/ft2)
Power/mass: 257 W/kg (0.156 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
1 × 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 (60-round drum) cannon
4 × 7.5 mm (0.295 in) MAC 1934 (675 rpg) machine guns
Reggiane Re.2005
Performance
Never exceed speed: 980 km/h (609 mph)
Maximum speed:628 km/h (390 mph) at 6,950 m (22,800 ft)
Cruise speed: 515 km/h (320 mph)
Stall speed: 155 km/h (96 mph)
Range: 980 km (610 mi) on internal fuel (1,130 km (700 mi) w/ 300 L drop tank; 1,270 km (790 mi) w/ 300 L + 2 × 150 L drop tanks)
Service ceiling: 11,500 m (37,700 ft)
Rate of climb: 20 m/s (3,900 ft/min) (6,000 m in 6.5 min)
Wing loading: max. 177 kg/m2 (36.25 lb/sq ft)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns in upper cowling (350 rpg);
1 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon firing through propeller hub (150 rpg);
2 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon in wings (200 rpg)
Bombs:
Underfuselage (non standard) hardpoint 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bomb or 1 × 300 L (79.3 US gal) drop tank
Hardpoints on wings: 160 kilograms (350 lb) bombs or 2 × 150 litres (39.6 US gal) drop tanks
(I'm not much into 'emotional argument') ;)
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Poorly designed comparison:
So you're comparing a pre-war French design with a French engine to a late-war Italian one built around a German Daimley Benz engine with an inherent structural design flaw. Are you sure you're a PhD candidate? That argument tends to make you look like a bit of an analytical idiot.
(I'm not much into 'emotional argument') ;)
And I totally believe you. That's why when you disrespect an entire nation of people (the French) based on the actions of a minority and I point out the parallel between the entire Italian nation's actions in the same period, it's totally different. You are nothing more than rational, logical, objective powerhouse aren't you. Like Mr. Spock almost (only different).
Why (other than you apparently have unresolved issues with me)? :)
Evidently not unresolved. :)
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So you're comparing a pre-war French design with a French engine to a late-war Italian one built around a German Daimley Benz engine with an inherent structural design flaw. Are you sure you're a PhD candidate? That argument tends to make you look like a bit of an analytical idiot.
"I do hope this French plane gets added before any more poorly-designed Italian aircraft." (Your opinion of the Macchis noted.)
Again, ironic.
And I totally believe you. That's why when you disrespect an entire nation of people (the French) based on the actions of a minority and I point out the parallel between the entire Italian nation's actions in the same period, it's totally different. You are nothing more than rational, logical, objective powerhouse aren't you. Like Mr. Spock almost (only different).
Evidently not unresolved. :)
Evidently, Mr. Self-Proclaimed Champion of the French but with less humor. ;)
Relax, Francis.
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Again, ironic.
An obvious dose of your own medicine and a jab at your bias. Easy and on target, obviously.
Evidently, Mr. Self-Proclaimed Champion of the French but with less humor. ;)
Not especially, but respect where respect is due. A lot of brave French people and an outstanding historical military record. The most lightweight research would illuminate the validity of the insult you pressed and the reasons for the origins of that.
Relax, Francis.
Don't flatter yourself that you can raise tempers, your school-yard trolling doesn't warrant that much attention.
Got anything else?
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I wasn't even trying to get this much attention from you. I'm still wondering how long the drama will last. I'd thought it would have died out long ago. Carry on and may you find peace and contentment.
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I wasn't even trying to get this much attention from you.
Oh it's a free service I provide under very specific circumstances.
Carry on and may you find peace and contentment.
Hmmmm hmm.
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Oh it's a free service I provide under very specific circumstances.
Don't overestimate, mate. :aok
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For XMAS?
(http://i67.tinypic.com/11slf9x.png)
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For XMAS?
(http://i67.tinypic.com/11slf9x.png)
2000 & ????
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For XMAS?
(http://i67.tinypic.com/11slf9x.png)
Be sure to fly Axis in January's FSO "Conquest at Casablanca" where you can experience the closest thing to the D.520 - a Yak7b in Vichy French colors.
(https://s6.postimg.org/5xvxu6a0h/Vichy_Yak.png) (https://postimg.org/image/5xvxu6a0d/)
Skin by Greebo and exclusive to the Morocco SEA terrain.
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Be sure to fly Axis in January's FSO "Conquest at Casablanca" where you can experience the closest thing to the D.520 - a Yak7b in Vichy French colors.
(https://s6.postimg.org/5xvxu6a0h/Vichy_Yak.png) (https://postimg.org/image/5xvxu6a0d/)
Skin by Greebo and exclusive to the Morocco SEA terrain.
:bhead For a moment, you fooled me into believing that they added a new plane. :noid
Very nice work Greebo. :aok
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2000 & ????
D.520's
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For XMAS?
(http://i67.tinypic.com/11slf9x.png)
2000 & ????
D.520's
There seems to be a bit of miscommunication here. :rofl
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+1
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First thing everyone is going to do when this is introduced, whine to Hitech that Waffle screwed up and placed a train conductor's lantern where the gunsight should be..... :O
Oh!! and the Reticle is 140Mil diameter and looks like the steering wheel for a boat.
(https://s20.postimg.org/tt1cgibn1/OPL_39_petit.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5cj6m1im5/OPL_RX_39.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5paksd62l/image.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/4zrsg0kyl/mb150s_Sight_zpsf7a7cb8d.png)
(https://s20.postimg.org/ex2t9bkx9/GH38_du_SHAA.jpg)
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+1.....This would be on my short list if we ever get a new aircraft in this game (I'm beginning to have my doubts).
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D.520's
The problem is the French named the plane wrong! If it was called the D.420 we'd have it by now,at least in Cali and Colorado! :devil
:salute
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If you are talking a Martin, I suspect the 20mm will be too heavy for a single person to lift let alone shoot.
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My wife told me if I have to explain the joke it really isnt funny! :mad: :o
You know what 420 stands for right? :bolt:
:salute
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My wife told me if I have to explain the joke it really isnt funny! :mad: :o
You know what 420 stands for right? :bolt:
:salute
1. Depends on the audience.
2. Yes.
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:aok
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:salute I'm still in agreement for the plane to be in lineup. :salute :cheers:
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Vichy 5ème escadrille, Eleusis airfield, Athènes May 1941.
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/dewoitine-d520_06-jpg.282095/)
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Wow early War color. Nice find!
These aircraft opposed Ranger's F4F's during the Operation: Torch landings in N Africa in November 1942, amiright?
I think that would be an excellent matchup. Would also love to see HTC graft a radial onto the P-40C to create the P-36.
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Your wish is my command..... LOL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQlgiqpDdJ8&feature=youtu.be
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Bump. Still need it.
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She's a deceit looking bird. Why not.
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She's a deceit looking bird. Why not.
(https://i.imgur.com/tkwHo1H.png)
Oh, I dunno.
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+1 for D.520
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My apologies, I meant decent not deceit. I'm an old man. :uhoh She is a good looking bird.
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+1
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(http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/listinmae/images/listinmae/appareils/dewoitine/d520_603/revedeD5201.jpg)
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Looking at the specs for this plane I think it could be a blast to fly.
:salute
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Hangar queen. :old:
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Hangar queen. :old:
It would be a perk farming machine.
Probably better for the MA than events since it would outclass its historical opponents by a huge margin.
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Hangar queen. :old:
Not in Special Events.
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Still hoping to see her before I die.....lol
(http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/D520_fichiers/image028.jpg)
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I just saw a picture of her. Just now. That count? :D
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+1
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:aok
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bump
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg92/hill9868/P1250494_zpsrfary7qp.jpg)
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(https://c.booko.info/covers/acabe4427363f9a/v/600.webp)
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From a discussion on this in the Axis History forums and this is an over view of the Bulgarian service from "Les Avions Dewoitine".
--------------------------------------
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=99013&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
#13
Post by David Lehmann » 06 Apr 2006, 23:30
Hello,
Thanks for your very kind "smileys" but according to the Docavia book about the Dewoitine D.520 by Raymond Danel and Jean Cuny the Dewoitine was indeed used by the Bulgarians.
In 1942, the Bulgarian government took contact with Vichy to buy Bloch MB.151 planes. The contract was signed but the Germans blocked the delivery of the planes.
The attack of the Ploesti oil facilities launched by US bombers which crossed Bulgaria to reach Rumania without concern leads them to change their mind.
In 1943 therefore, the few Bf.109E and Avia B.354 from 6th Bulgarian Regiment (Orliak) are at first reinforced by 29 Bf.109 G2 and 24 Czech Avia B.315. The delivery of the last ones had also been blocked by the Germans previously.
In March 1943, the Germans promised to deliver 150 D.520s to Bulgaria - a first batch of 96 is planned for May 1943.
During Summer 1943, 100 D.520s are starting to be received in Nancy-Tromblaine (France) by Bulgarian pilots who had previously been trained on D.520 aircraft.
In August 1943, 166 B-24s from 9th US Air Force attacked Ploesti for the 2nd time. This time 3 of them had been down by the Bf.109 of 6th Orliak.
The first D.520s arrived in Karlovo in September 1943.
In November, B-25s from 12th US Air Force and B-24s from 15th US Air Force, escorted by P-38 fighters, attacked the Bulgarian air bases and air facilities.
In December, 31 B-24s escorted by P-38s attacked communication lines near Sofia. They were intercepted by 30 Bulgarian fighters, mostly D.520s. 11 Bulgarian fighters were lost against apparently only 2 P-38s.
On January 10, 1944, the crews of the B-17s and their P-38 escort claim 28 victories against the 40 Bulgarian fighters which were engaged against them. The authors indicate that they are doubtful about these information but I don't know if it is about the claim or about the number of Bulgarian fighter that could have been engaged.
Between January and April 1944, the D.520s were replaced as frontline fighters by Me.109 G6s (80 given by the Luftwaffe).
Several D.520s fighters remained nonetheless in service until the arrival of the Soviet Army. The Bulgarian Air Force was reorganized and equipped with Yak fighters. The few D.520s still operational were then used for training until the beginning of the 1950's.
That is what is in the book, I cannot be more precise ... despite the fact that the Bulgarian D.520s fought perhaps an other unit that the 9th Air Force (what I said when writing this simple line in my previous mail) I see at the moment no reason to doubt from this source unlike you give us more elements. It's not like websites talking mistakenly about D.520s in Rumania; it seems to be documented.
Regards,
David
Top
-
From a discussion on this in the Axis History forums and this is an over view of the Bulgarian service from "Les Avions Dewoitine".
--------------------------------------
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=99013&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
#13
Post by David Lehmann » 06 Apr 2006, 23:30
Hello,
Thanks for your very kind "smileys" but according to the Docavia book about the Dewoitine D.520 by Raymond Danel and Jean Cuny the Dewoitine was indeed used by the Bulgarians.
In 1942, the Bulgarian government took contact with Vichy to buy Bloch MB.151 planes. The contract was signed but the Germans blocked the delivery of the planes.
The attack of the Ploesti oil facilities launched by US bombers which crossed Bulgaria to reach Rumania without concern leads them to change their mind.
In 1943 therefore, the few Bf.109E and Avia B.354 from 6th Bulgarian Regiment (Orliak) are at first reinforced by 29 Bf.109 G2 and 24 Czech Avia B.315. The delivery of the last ones had also been blocked by the Germans previously.
In March 1943, the Germans promised to deliver 150 D.520s to Bulgaria - a first batch of 96 is planned for May 1943.
During Summer 1943, 100 D.520s are starting to be received in Nancy-Tromblaine (France) by Bulgarian pilots who had previously been trained on D.520 aircraft.
In August 1943, 166 B-24s from 9th US Air Force attacked Ploesti for the 2nd time. This time 3 of them had been down by the Bf.109 of 6th Orliak.
The first D.520s arrived in Karlovo in September 1943.
In November, B-25s from 12th US Air Force and B-24s from 15th US Air Force, escorted by P-38 fighters, attacked the Bulgarian air bases and air facilities.
In December, 31 B-24s escorted by P-38s attacked communication lines near Sofia. They were intercepted by 30 Bulgarian fighters, mostly D.520s. 11 Bulgarian fighters were lost against apparently only 2 P-38s.
On January 10, 1944, the crews of the B-17s and their P-38 escort claim 28 victories against the 40 Bulgarian fighters which were engaged against them. The authors indicate that they are doubtful about these information but I don't know if it is about the claim or about the number of Bulgarian fighter that could have been engaged.
Between January and April 1944, the D.520s were replaced as frontline fighters by Me.109 G6s (80 given by the Luftwaffe).
Several D.520s fighters remained nonetheless in service until the arrival of the Soviet Army. The Bulgarian Air Force was reorganized and equipped with Yak fighters. The few D.520s still operational were then used for training until the beginning of the 1950's.
That is what is in the book, I cannot be more precise ... despite the fact that the Bulgarian D.520s fought perhaps an other unit that the 9th Air Force (what I said when writing this simple line in my previous mail) I see at the moment no reason to doubt from this source unlike you give us more elements. It's not like websites talking mistakenly about D.520s in Rumania; it seems to be documented.
Regards,
David
Top
Fuel to the fire, cheers.
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Bibitty Bibitty Bump.
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/dw1-jpg.505363/)
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bmpLSJwqSdw/TjKfuL--x_I/AAAAAAAADIY/4IGNS7jpB9U/s1600/d520.jpg)
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(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/captured-wings/images/0/0b/Yellow_94_-_D520_NE_HZ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180120210944)
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I believe this was my first time requesting the D.520
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,164407.msg1862267.html#msg1862267
Man that was along time ago.....might have even an earlier request for it...
TC
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(https://i.postimg.cc/7YXWnvVb/520.jpg)
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/7118/7663471930_44febbbc03_b.jpg)
If you love the D.520, come fly one this FSO! We have Yak-7's standing in for them with Vichy French colors.
Sure would be nice to not have to fly a Yak-7, though.
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Desperately needed for FSO and events.
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Not as desperately as some others. Just sayin'.
The D.520 is pretty. It's not the top of the 'need' list (to me).