Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nimble on September 26, 2008, 08:53:20 PM
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Hate to say it, but it Obama is owning McCain, wow. Can McCain look any more uncomfortable with that fake smile? Jesus why did we have to run him this year, even though I am well aware it was his last chance, but this was too important. Very disappointed.
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I think that they are both doing a good job; they both look and sound strong. They obviously disagree; but I haven't seen a real blunder from either.
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McCain's being schooled by someone who was educated in Columbia-Harvard???
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That's the old buzzards 'I'm gonna have yer dog whupped' smile. Don't underestimate him.
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McCain looked like he was ready to explode.
I liked his talk about a spending freeze. I could vote for a someone who promises that.
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Obama on meeting without pre conditions... 'that's a mis-characterization'...
LOL the old buzzard just ate him. LOL~!
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They're talking about Iran right now...
Note that president Ahmadinejad is not the real leader of Iran. It's just a useless title.
Supreme Leader and Guardian Councils are the ones that run the country.
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I see a stuttering Obama, and McCain owning Obama. (Shrugs) Obama is using alot of "ahh"'s. Just one example of trying to think quick, but unable to.
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The old buzzard just ate him on eastern europe, georgia and the russians... the messia just capitulated the point.
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The Pinko was definitely more comfortable talking about the economy, then talking about foreign affairs. Likewise, the Vetran was more comfortable talking about foreign affairs than the economy.
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"We can't drill our way out of energy problems..."
Whoop, der it is! Liberal that wants to tax! :angel:
McInsane: "Temporarily relieve our immediate energy demands." Shack. Game. Set. Match.
Everyone knows....long term is solar, wind, alternate energy...short term is getting off middle east oil.
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They're talking about Iran right now...
Note that president Ahmadinejad is not the real leader of Iran. It's just a useless title.
Supreme Leader and Guardian Councils are the ones that run the country.
And McCain pointed out that sitting down with aqua-sneakers-bad would be legitimizing his rhetoric when he's likely not the guy calling the shots. A point the messiah was left sputtering over.
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He would sputter and call John, Tom.
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Obamabinladen: "Iraq, that's where all of our resources have gone".
OMFG...thing guy is on the hill?!?! He's not paying attention!
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"We can't drill our way out of energy problems..."
Whoop, der it is! Liberal that wants to tax! :angel:
McInsane: "Temporarily relieve our immediate energy demands." Shack. Game. Set. Match.
Everyone knows....long term is solar, wind, alternate energy...short term is getting off middle east oil.
He did get McCain with that little bit about McC voting AGAINST alternative energy proposals 23 times.
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so who won???
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Obamabinladen
there is no need to say that :mad:
just say obama
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Well, from someone who doesn't like either of them... Osamabama was allowed to interject many times during McCains time. McCain did start returning the favor but seeing them on the news, in press conferences, obama lied and omitted many facts about his own statements during the debates tonight.
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so who won???
Obama, he was tough and expressed his thoughts clearly :aok
McCain picked up speed during Foreign Policy though, he was crushed during the Economy segment
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Ok as I'm sure some will point out I'm biased to Obama, but I do think Obama clearly controlled this debate. If you notice Obama always said what "he" would do on just about every question and then might have referred to something McCain had done. On the other hand McCain also mostly talked about what "Obama" would do rather than telling us what "he" would do.
McCain clearly did not take the ball into his side of the court and tell us what "he" is going to do if he become president. McCain just kept going back to the tired oh I've been here 100 years and I know better. Well maybe so, but he sure as hell didn't tell us what he would "do" better other than talk about spending. Even there he has never told us how he will cut all the spending.
McCain had some good points here and there and I think Obama fumbled once or twice, but over all I'd have to give this one to Obama.
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Obama may have won in style and delivery, but McCain won in substance. IMO.
But.... I don't see how a principled person can be undecided, or swayed at this point.
The people that are undecided at this point must be motivated emotionally.
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I would say minor victory McCain, obamabinbiden got owned on the last half.
His ending statement was weak.
By taking it back to Iraq, he kept letting McCain beat him over the head with the surge.
Plus "His I agree with McCain on Russia" was pretty weak, he should have at least stole it and spun it his way.
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Looks like Obama was right about the Kissinger comment, Katie Curric said after her interview with Palin she called Kissinger and ask him what his stand was, he said that he does support meetings with unsavory leaders without pre-conditions.
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Sounded to me like Obama want to increase the money the gov receives, while Macain wants to reduce it.
I like less money going to the gov-If they have it, they will spend it.
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I think Obama started pretty good.. he was better at explaining his economy proposals than the old Buzzard. When the debate moved forward a bit, teetering between economy and world affairs and foreign policy... McCain did much better. I liked the confidence, I liked his views, I liked his support of the military and his positions on our policy initiatives. As I thought, they guy knows how to win a war without being a freakin 'dead or alive' cowboy. He finished strong..
I rate it as McCain Wins, 7 to 3.
The next debate here on Long Island on the Economy will be just as interesting... and if the old buzzard doesn't get himself together on that, Obama may take that one.
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Looks like Obama was right about the Kissinger comment, Katie Curric said after her interview with Palin she called Kissinger and ask him what his stand was, he said that he does support meetings with unsavory leaders without pre-conditions.
I watched that, and disagree. Kissinger was talking about low level meetings, the discussion in the debate was about heads of state.
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I would say minor victory McCain, obamabinbiden got owned on the last half.
His ending statement was weak.
By taking it back to Iraq, he kept letting McCain beat him over the head with the surge.
Plus "His I agree with McCain on Russia" was pretty weak, he should have at least stole it and spun it his way.
i dint think Obama did bad during the Foreign Policy segment. I felt he showed he was well informed and was not naive, no matter how much McCain tried to emphasize that
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Sounded to me like Obama want to increase the money the gov receives, while Macain wants to reduce it.
I like less money going to the gov-If they have it, they will spend it.
Not really.. it's just a difference of who pays it. McCain is for cutting taxes to big oil by crazy amounts.. (you know those guys that are currently raking in record profits) Obama on the other hand is for cutting taxes for the average person.
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Well McCain should have won this debate, I'm a Obama supporter and I'll admit McCain is more experienced when it comes to foreign affairs, I would have been surprised if he didn't look stronger in that department.
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I watched that, and disagree. Kissinger was talking about low level meetings, the discussion in the debate was about heads of state.
You obviously don't get to high level meetings with out having low level meetings first. Obama isn't saying he's gonna run right over to Iran and start blabbing away to the Supreme Leader. He said he would support talks with out pre conditions. I'll admit that Obama could have been more clear on that subject. That's one of the places I thought he fluttered and should have stuck it right back to McCain.
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McCain did well, but this debate was in his wheelhouse. I think Obama was edged overall on the substance, but looked much more relaxed and "presidential" than McCain. That difference might actually draw more voters than the substantive issues McCain was well versed on..
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You obviously don't get to high level meetings with out having low level meetings first. Obama isn't saying he's gonna run right over to Iran and start blabbing away to the Supreme Leader. He said he would support talks with out pre conditions. I'll admit that Obama could have been more clear on that subject. That's one of the places I thought he fluttered and should have stuck it right back to McCain.
Exactly, it was kinda making me mad that McCain keep saying Obama wants to meet with them, when Obama himself right there keep saying it would start with low level meetings.
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McCain did well, but this debate was in his wheelhouse. I think Obama was edged overall on the substance, but looked much more relaxed and "presidential" than McCain. That difference might actually draw more voters than the substantive issues McCain was well versed on..
Pretty much in the way the 1960 JFK/Nixon debate went. Those who saw it said JFK won, those who listened to it on radio said Nixon won.
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Not really.. it's just a difference of who pays it. McCain is for cutting taxes to big oil by crazy amounts.. (you know those guys that are currently raking in record profits) Obama on the other hand is for cutting taxes for the average person.
Disagree.. when pressed on what pet programs he'd give up in light of the crisis costs Obama waffled badly. McCain grabbed the initiative by going after the malfunctioning diseased alphabet soup agencies and getting rid of the ones that don't work and trimming the size and cost of government... bonus points for McCain.. Obama never even touched on the corrupt mess that government agencies have become. McCain came out of that exchange with the initiative.. and then the subject changed to foreign policy
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Exactly, it was kinda making me mad that McCain keep saying Obama wants to meet with them, when Obama himself right there keep saying it would start with low level meetings.
Yea IMO that was a mistake on Obama's part, he should have taken that point and shoved it right back over to Mccain's side of the court. He did do a good job by showing even Bush & Co had moved away from the "no talks" idealism. That's when he should have spiked the ball right back at McCain.
As far as McCain he totally fluttered on the whole spending issue, he sounded far too scripted by repeating the same thing, rather than give us "real" world examples of how he was going to cut all this spending. I'm sorry but claiming he's gonna veto everything is total BS.
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Exactly, it was kinda making me mad that McCain keep saying Obama wants to meet with them, when Obama himself right there keep saying it would start with low level meetings.
Fact is, Osamabama said that if he were president he would sit down with Castro, Amadinejad, Chavez, etc. He blamed Bush not doing so for all of the worlds problems.
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He would sputter and call John, Tom.
If he had given him the respect he deserves and called him Senator McCain instead of John all night that would not have happened.
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Exactly, it was kinda making me mad that McCain keep saying Obama wants to meet with them, when Obama himself right there keep saying it would start with low level meetings.
The question that sparked the controversy at Monday's debate seemed simple enough: Would the candidates for president be willing to meet, within their first year in office, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea?
Obama said yes, while Clinton said no, arguing that the president should only meet with world leaders who are hostile to the United States after lower-level diplomatic contacts are conducted.
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Fact is, Osamabama said that if he were president he would sit down with Castro, Amadinejad, Chavez, etc. He blamed Bush not doing so for all of the worlds problems.
Yup.. saw that exchange during the primary debates.. Obama was pinned down, asked if he would meet with ahmedstinkyshoes, Kim Jong Dong, Castro and Chavez without pre conditions face to face. He said YES. THATS what McCain was hammering him for.
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The difference between the two candidates is the difference between Saving and spending, experience preferred versus on the job training offered
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Disagree.. when pressed on what pet programs he'd give up in light of the crisis costs Obama waffled badly. McCain grabbed the initiative by going after the malfunctioning diseased alphabet soup agencies and getting rid of the ones that don't work and trimming the size and cost of government... bonus points for McCain.. Obama never even touched on the corrupt mess that government agencies have become. McCain came out of that exchange with the initiative.. and then the subject changed to foreign policy
Yea but McCain couldn't name anything either other than earmarks & that's only 18billion yet he claims he will cut 100's of billions. As I posted before the only way he can cut hundreds of billions is to cut defense spending and money going to Israel. Also McCain always talks about him wanting to stop sending money to people who don't like us. Yet then he turned around and said he wouldn't cut the money we are sending to Pakistan.
umm hell Pakistan is practically at war with us, they have shot at our helicopters twice now. If they like us, I'd hate to see who hates us. Not to mention McCain plans all these big cuts then plans 100's of millions of tax breaks for oil companies. Umm hello the oil companies have had record profits the last two years. How about giving people who actually need a tax break a cut.
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Obama slightly over McCain on economics...McCain wins on Military and foreign affairs by a landslid
Good debate!!
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Yea but McCain couldn't name anything either other than earmarks & that's only 18billion yet he claims he will cut 100's of billions. As I posted before the only way he can cut hundreds of billions is to cut defense spending and money going to Israel.
For the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion:
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I did'nt like that McCain repeated some statements two or three times.
Ithought that Obama was wrong for saying wht he did about Pakastan and McCain let him have it.
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Yea but McCain couldn't name anything either other than earmarks & that's only 18billion yet he claims he will cut 100's of billions. As I posted before the only way he can cut hundreds of billions is to cut defense spending and money going to Israel. Also McCain always talks about him wanting to stop sending money to people who don't like us. Yet then he turned around and said he wouldn't cut the money we are sending to Pakistan.
umm hell Pakistan is practically at war with us, they have shot at our helicopters twice now. If they like us, I'd hate to see who hates us. Not to mention McCain plans all these big cuts then plans 100's of millions of tax breaks for oil companies. Umm hello the oil companies have had record profits the last two years. How about giving people who actually need a tax break a cut.
Like who, the people who ain't paying any taxes ?
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Senator McCain (John) should have started calling Obama Osama toward the end.
I wonder how that would have played out???
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Yes exactly so 18 + 6 = 24 Where will the other 75 billion come from? Oh yea he's not cutting spending to Israel. So where will the other 82 billion come from? That's only 100 billion, but McCain has claimed "100's of billions" on a few occasions.
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Like who, the people who ain't paying any taxes ?
I damn sure pay my taxes and I'm quite sure I could use a tax break much more than a oil company who just raked in the biggest profits of all time for any industry in the last year. As well as the year before this one.
Do you honestly think the oil industry deserves a tax break more than the average American?
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Yes exactly so 18 + 6 = 24 Where will the other 75 billion come from? Oh yea he's not cutting spending to Israel. So where will the other 82 billion come from? That's only 100 billion, but McCain has claimed "100's of billions" on a few occasions.
You said the only way to cut 100's of billions was to cut funding from defense and Israel.
I showed that your comment about Israel funding was insignificant.
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BTW Crockett as you could see McCain was'nt a coward or trying to dodge the debate
like your earlier post...please keep you bull crap post on that issue to yourself Thank you
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I have a serious question.
How much bullsiht has seeped into the Russian-Georgian conflict?
Am I wrong in thinking that the US government has totally managed/twisted an argument that really few americans ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT?
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Obamessiah voters think Obamessiah won.
McC voters think McC won.
Libertarians think they're both more of the same crap we've had since Reagan...20 years of lying bass turds. Nothing I saw would move me from Bob Barr to either one of these business-as-usual-retreads.
Undecided people probably saw nothing that would make them decide. They'll be waiting for Round 2 and probably Round 3, praying that they will see something that will give them enough faith to make a decision.
I don't like either one of them. I'd call it a draw. McC wins on foreign policy, Obamessiah wins on economy. Obamessiah stutters a lot but looks into the camera more, better connection with the audience. McC more forceful and direct but looks down at Lehrer too much, need to connect with the audience.
I think either one of them could have won the election tonight on the economy. All that was necessary was for a clear statement in support of the TAXPAYERS instead of Ritchie Rich on the Wall Street Bailout. There have been several plans put forward that solve this crisis from the bottom up instead of the top down. If either one had proposed a bottom up plan, it would have been game/set/match. But both are too chickenshirt to be that bold.
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You said the only way to cut 100's of billions was to cut funding from defense and Israel.
I showed that your comment about Israel funding was insignificant.
It's not showing it's insignificant.. I covered that point in the other topic about this issue. The fact that it's around 6 billion a year that gets sent to Israel is very significant. Israel is the largest recipient of foreign aid money. The fact that it's just over 6 billion and that is a very large number shows that McCain cutting 100's of billions is a pipe dream.
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Damn near a draw....IMO "vote the issues" opinion.
I'm still voting for Walter.
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Damn near a draw....IMO "vote the issues" opinion.
I'm still voting for Walter.
I'd agree, I think they both had their strong points in the expected areas for each.
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AH AH AH AH Obama AH AH AH can't talk without a prompter!
Wholly!
McCain came off the experienced gentleman, Obama, stuttering aside, looked like he was irked with McCain.
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It's not showing it's insignificant.. I covered that point in the other topic about this issue. The fact that it's around 6 billion a year that gets sent to Israel is very significant. Israel is the largest recipient of foreign aid money. The fact that it's just over 6 billion and that is a very large number shows that McCain cutting 100's of billions is a pipe dream.
Your post seems oxymoronic:
It's not insignificant, but it is insignificant.
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BTW Crockett as you could see McCain was'nt a coward or trying to dodge the debate
like your earlier post...please keep you bull crap post on that issue to yourself Thank you
McCain was the one who said he wasn't going to go, then waited to the last min to agree to show up. I also don't think I ever said he was a coward, I said it looked like he was trying to "dodge" the debates. Also don't tell me how to talk about someone, when practically any post you have addressed to me has been some lame attempt at a personal bash.
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"neener neener neener". ?? you got anything better than that?
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Your post seems oxymoronic:
It's not insignificant, but it is insignificant.
The fact that 6 billion out of 100's of billions makes it seem insignificant to the whole point. The fact that 6 billion is actually a very large number makes the point that it's very significant to what McCain claims he can cut. There is no way McCain can actually cut 100's of billions. I would be amazed if McCain could actually cut 20 billion with out causing the loss of jobs in this country.
McCain claims he will cut all earmarks..Well guess what that means cutting a hell of a lot of jobs. Earmarks are not all wasteful spending. Many of them go for needed things around the country. Many of them help supplement defense contracts and other govt contracts. Claiming he will cut all of them is total BS and if he does he will undoubtedly cut jobs.
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I thoroughly enjoyed the debate. I was impressed with McCain, and I enjoyed Obamas performance as well. This debate actually provided some much needed clarity on my part as to why I prefer McCain. But Obama staked out his position well. All in all I see a success for both men in the sense they expressed themselves well.......However, Im not sure that alot of "swing" voters actually swung on this debate but I think everyone probably came away feeling a bit stronger about the process.
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You know what I find funny, some of you republicans on here always resort to the name calling, it's Osama Obama, or other things like that, yet I really haven't seen any democrats resort to the same level of name calling.
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You know what I find funny, some of you republicans on here always resort to the name calling, it's Osama Obama, or other things like that, yet I really haven't seen any democrats resort to the same level of name calling.
Oh so you missed his campaign mocking that McCain cant use a computer? (Due to the severe torture and breaking of his arms to the North Vietnamesse in prison)
I think you see what you want to see. Most liberals are all for negative ads...til they get them back.
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One other thing, looks like most of the polls coming out have Obama winning the debate, and by quite a bit too.
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One other thing, looks like most of the polls coming out have Obama winning the debate, and by quite a bit too.
Most likely because liberals are up late tonight smoking weed and drinking, while conservatives have tucked this nations future generation into bed and retired to sleep themselves.
Let's wait until early morning when the real working class awaken at 5am and the "Peace, Love and Dope" generation (and their nurtured childen/grandchildren) get up at Noon.
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McCain was the one who said he wasn't going to go, then waited to the last min to agree to show up. I also don't think I ever said he was a coward, I said it looked like he was trying to "dodge" the debates. Also don't tell me how to talk about someone, when practically any post you have addressed to me has been some lame attempt at a personal bash.
I want to apologise for that statement..you did not post that and I retract my statement.
It was you your Democratic friend Dos Equis that said it.
I am not personally attacking you...just you liberal views. Thank you
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I want to apologise for that statement..you did not post that and I retract my statement.
It was you your Democratic friend Dos Equis that said it.
I am not personally attacking you...just you liberal views. Thank you
NP, and thanks for the apology.
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You know what I find funny, some of you republicans on here always resort to the name calling, it's Osama Obama, or other things like that, yet I really haven't seen any democrats resort to the same level of name calling.
I call him The Obamessiah in honor of our Mainstream Media annointing him as the chosen savior of our nation long before the end of the Democratic primaries. They have prostrated themselves before him, covering their eyes so they might not be blinded by his celestial brilliance. They worship at his feet, they are his slavish minions.
He is............ The Messiah.
So what else can I call him but Obamessiah? Can't dispute the wisdom of the media elite, now can I?
McC? I don't want him for Prez either but I do respect the suffering he underwent in the Hilton. I served with two POW's and have heard the tales and seen the scars firsthand. So, no, I won't belittle him. Just don't want him in office either.
(Check the sig block)
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You know what I find funny, some of you republicans on here always resort to the name calling, it's Osama Obama, or other things like that, yet I really haven't seen any democrats resort to the same level of name calling.
here ya go...one of the most under handed ads I have ever seen...brought to you by supporters of Obama
Sic just sic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHvJPGnkQxE
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here ya go...one of the most under handed ads I have ever seen...brought to you by supporters of Obama
Sic just sic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHvJPGnkQxE
I was talking about on here, you guys, not the campaigns. Thats why I said republicans on here.
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I was talking about on here, you guys, not the campaigns. Thats why I said republicans on here.
Yup. Us guys. Is there any doubt who we're referring to when we type 'messiah' in an obama thread? is there any doubt who we're talking about when we refer to the other guy as the old buzzard or McGoo or McCracker?
Yah gotta look past the disdain rhetoric and find the substance. The rest is just color.
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Yah gotta look past the disdain rhetoric and find the substance. The rest is just color.
Color? Is that a racist comment?!!
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shaddap, cracker.
;)
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I think the talking heads on CNN just called the Nov. Election and declared Osamabama the winner... I suppose my ballot wont be necessary now LOL
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Disagree.. when pressed on what pet programs he'd give up in light of the crisis costs Obama waffled badly. McCain grabbed the initiative by going after the malfunctioning diseased alphabet soup agencies and getting rid of the ones that don't work and trimming the size and cost of government... bonus points for McCain.. Obama never even touched on the corrupt mess that government agencies have become. McCain came out of that exchange with the initiative.. and then the subject changed to foreign policy
Sure, the agencies HAVE become a mess. But which ones and to what degree, are either going to cut spending on something that won't sit well with their party?
Plus earmarks, I bet there are A TON of wasteful ear marks but are ALL of them? I wonder~
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You obviously don't get to high level meetings with out having low level meetings first. Obama isn't saying he's gonna run right over to Iran and start blabbing away to the Supreme Leader.
Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"
The debate as a whole I agree with the CNN commentators. pretty much a tie
I completely dissagree with Crockett that Obama controlled the debate. He did however hold his own very well.
In fact both did.
And remember I predicted that Obama would pretty much own McCain in the debate. so thats a shift on my part
I thought they both for the most part,bumbled their way through the bailout
Both were very obviously trying to avoid talk about the current economic events going on in Washington.
But Obama did seem much more prepared to put forth his economic agenda (weather we agree with it or not)
McCain was too vague on the issue. He could have done better if he expanded on his own policies and pointed out in greater detail the flaws in Obamas.
Moreso then just "Obamas idea of wealthy"
McCain also didnt do well in defending Obamas attacks on his policies.
On Iraq. It would depend on who's view you support as to who won this.
But IMO McCain did better and has the better strategy. Honestly I dont see Obama doing anything different should he win as it really is the only responsible option
One point McCain made to very good effect in both Iraq and other areas was the continual "I was there" and "I went there"
As Patton used to say "One personal observation is worth 1,000 reports"
Forgeign affairs I agree with what ian5440 posted when he said "i dint think Obama did bad during the Foreign Policy segment. I felt he showed he was well informed and was not naive, no matter how much McCain tried to emphasize that"
But McCains experience shined through. It was clear that McCain as poorly prepared for the economic portion.
Was better prepared in foreign policy.
I score it a technical draw with the edge on economic presentation going to Obama and the edge on foreign affairs going to McCain.
they both received poor grades from me in the opening segment about the bailout, each saying alot of nothing. but saying it very well.
In conclusion
McCain fared far better then I thought he would.
And he must have been reading my posts here(yea right) because he did start to do the one thing I said he needed to do. Distance himself from Bush.
"hard headed" Poorly managed and a couple of other swipes I think even if they meant little in the debate itself. Could go a LONG way in helping him overall outside the debates. He needs to keep that up and emphasize it. That in effect will neuter the "more of the same" chants from the Obama camp.
IMO he needs to figuratively speaking outright biotch slap Bush on some of his policies.
Basically he needs to run an "I am NOT George Bush" campaign
Unfortunately he didnt do as well in the one area that's most important to the people right now. The economy.
Not that he sucked at it. He just didn't expand on his positions, nor did he point out the flaws in Obamas enough.
It was about as organised as my desk. (which isnt) He knows what he means. He just didnt convey it well enough
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
McCains chances ride on the economy
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I thoroughly enjoyed the debate. I was impressed with McCain, and I enjoyed Obamas performance as well. This debate actually provided some much needed clarity on my part as to why I prefer McCain. But Obama staked out his position well. All in all I see a success for both men in the sense they expressed themselves well.......However, Im not sure that alot of "swing" voters actually swung on this debate but I think everyone probably came away feeling a bit stronger about the process.
Good post
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if you tally the total earmarks it seems insignificant against the total budget... but when you factor in wasteful no bid contracts and waste via bureaucracy run wild it come up to about a third or more of the budget is just waste.
That's what McOld is talking about going after.... cleaning up waste, corruption, ineffective and inoperative agencies.
Creating more super-agencies ala obamasama's plans.. more pork, more waste.
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As far as McCain he totally fluttered on the whole spending issue, he sounded far too scripted by repeating the same thing, rather than give us "real" world examples of how he was going to cut all this spending. I'm sorry but claiming he's gonna veto everything is total BS.
Actually McCain did give us examples of how he would cut spending. He named these things at least: foreign aid to countries that don't like us anyway, eliminating earmarks, eliminating defense contracts that allow for huge cost overruns, examining each and every federal agency to determine which ones are working and which ones aren't then eliminating those that don't work and making the rest more efficient. That would likely eliminate hundreds of billions from the federal budget.
I think McCain was talking about vetoing crap that had earmarks on it, however he should have been more clear on that issue.
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Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"
The debate as a whole I agree with the CNN commentators. pretty much a tie
I completely dissagree with Crockett that Obama controlled the debate. He did however hold his own very well.
In fact both did.
And remember I predicted that Obama would pretty much own McCain in the debate. so thats a shift on my part
I thought they both for the most part,bumbled their way through the bailout
Both were very obviously trying to avoid talk about the current economic events going on in Washington.
But Obama did seem much more prepared to put forth his economic agenda (weather we agree with it or not)
McCain was too vague on the issue. He could have done better if he expanded on his own policies and pointed out in greater detail the flaws in Obamas.
Moreso then just "Obamas idea of wealthy"
McCain also didnt do well in defending Obamas attacks on his policies.
On Iraq. It would depend on who's view you support as to who won this.
But IMO McCain did better and has the better strategy. Honestly I dont see Obama doing anything different should he win as it really is the only responsible option
One point McCain made to very good effect in both Iraq and other areas was the continual "I was there" and "I went there"
As Patton used to say "One personal observation is worth 1,000 reports"
Forgeign affairs I agree with what ian5440 posted when he said "i dint think Obama did bad during the Foreign Policy segment. I felt he showed he was well informed and was not naive, no matter how much McCain tried to emphasize that"
But McCains experience shined through. It was clear that McCain as poorly prepared for the economic portion.
Was better prepared in foreign policy.
I score it a technical draw with the edge on economic presentation going to Obama and the edge on foreign affairs going to McCain.
they both received poor grades from me in the opening segment about the bailout, each saying alot of nothing. but saying it very well.
In conclusion
McCain fared far better then I thought he would.
And he must have been reading my posts here(yea right) because he did start to do the one thing I said he needed to do. Distance himself from Bush.
"hard headed" Poorly managed and a couple of other swipes I think even if they meant little in the debate itself. Could go a LONG way in helping him overall outside the debates. He needs to keep that up and emphasize it. That in effect will neuter the "more of the same" chants from the Obama camp.
IMO he needs to figuratively speaking outright biotch slap Bush on some of his policies.
Basically he needs to run an "I am NOT George Bush" campaign
Unfortunately he didnt do as well in the one area that's most important to the people right now. The economy.
Not that he sucked at it. He just didn't expand on his positions, nor did he point out the flaws in Obamas enough.
It was about as organised as my desk. (which isnt) He knows what he means. He just didnt convey it well enough
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
McCains chances ride on the economy
Excellent synopsis. :rock
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if you tally the total earmarks it seems insignificant against the total budget... but when you factor in wasteful no bid contracts and waste via bureaucracy run wild it come up to about a third or more of the budget is just waste.
That's what McOld is talking about going after.... cleaning up waste, corruption, ineffective and inoperative agencies.
Creating more super-agencies ala obamasama's plans.. more pork, more waste.
Sorry man, maybe you have some inside info but I haven't seen ANYWHERE obama's proposals to beef up agencies or create new ones.
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I think McCain was talking about vetoing crap that had earmarks on it, however he should have been more clear on that issue.
"I will use the power of the veto to end wasteful spending, I will make them famous, you will know their names."
that's pretty clear.. he says it every stump speech, too.
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Sorry man, maybe you have some inside info but I haven't seen ANYWHERE obama's proposals to beef up agencies or create new ones.
National Health Care out of thin air? The guy is a community organizer.. all he knows how to do is spend money.. he's never run a business, never been responsible for running a trim lean profitable organization. Everything about the guy is 'Big Government, Getting Bigger'.
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I'm a bit late jumping in here, but here is my assessment of the debate this evening.
I call the economy section a slight edge to McCain. Neither candidate wanted to commit to anything on the bailout issue. Both candidates tried to dodge the issue of how this current financial crisis would effect their spending bills, although to be fair, that is a very tough issue to address right now since no one knows how this issue is going to play out.
Obama wasn't clear enough on how he was going to cut spending and wants to increase taxes on the rich. Increasing taxes on the rich will only slow down our economy even more since it will remove more investment dollars from the rich and redistribute them to the government.
McCain gave multiple, clear examples of where he would cut spending. His proposed tax cuts for large corporations should help to stimulate the economy by increasing the amount of investment dollars available.
During the foreign policy segment I thought McCain's 20+ years as a US Senator clearly put him in the lead. Both men pretty much agreed on the issue of Russia yet Obama's initial reaction to the conflict speaks volumes imo. McCain gave examples of visiting Iraq and Afghanistan, negotiating for a bipartisan solution to the MIA's from the Vietnam war and led the way to normalizing relations between the US and Vietnam. Obama just hasn't been around long enough to have that kind of experience.
McCain hammered Obama for his stance on the surge in Iraq. Obama scored points for slamming McCain on the money for the troops issue by stating it wasn't an issue of funding for the troops but a fundamental difference of opinion on the time line for troop withdrawal.
Overall I think both men handled themselves well during the debate. I certainly enjoyed watching it and I'm looking forward to watching the next one as well.
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"I will use the power of the veto to end wasteful spending, I will make them famous, you will know their names."
that's pretty clear.. he says it every stump speech, too.
You are correct, he said that. I am trying to recall as much of it as I can. :D
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I can't say that I agree that Obama controlled the debate about the economy. Many of his proposals should have been painfully transparent to any thinking voter, and McCain countered them fairly well.
However, Obama should thank his lucky stars that Newt Gingrich wasn't debating him about the economy. I have the feeling that Newt would have eaten him alive on the painful reality of actually having to fund his new programs. For instance, the proposed punitive tax on the evil oil industries would make it impossible for them to take any meaningful steps toward developing alternative fuel sources, and they are the very entities best suited to develop them. Newt made the statement during an interview last week that anyone who thinks taxing corporate profits will not have an effect on the average American isn't really in tune with reality, for millions of those same Americans are employed by those corporations, and could face all sorts of dire consequences as a result.
McCain started slower, but finished stronger. That's good enough to win most prize fights.
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The one point I think McCain might have put a point on the board regarding the economy was when he compared the business tax of other countries (low) with that of the US (2nd highest global business tax @ 35%) and how by lowering the business tax you allow for more money to be invested back into the business and by proxy the larger economy. The way Obama described it the problem of giving big tax breaks to businesses is that those monies not going to taxes then tend to wind up in the pockets of the business owners....which I guess is bad. You know to Obamas and the liberals credit, when you look at these failing investment firms and see those fat cats are walking away from shattered businesses holding severance packages worth millions of dollars, those same businesses that are now angling for 750 billion in tax payer benefits to prop up their ruptured business models, people cant help but feel they are being ripped off. And they are.
I guess what Im looking for is sensible economy enhancing regulations and sensible conservative economic models that reward honest business. I don't believe in government mandated confiscatory taxation to prop up and maintain what in essence is a socialist form of government. But thats just me.
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The very first thing in the debate was one thing that stuck with the most, when Yomama, talking about the economic bailout package said "and I put forth that the package" and he went on to give the impression that accountability, controls on CEO compensation, oversight etc were all HIS ideas. All the ideas he mentioned were already being put in place before he got to Washington and they weren't his ideas. What a lieing phony.
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Oh so you missed his campaign mocking that McCain cant use a computer? (Due to the severe torture and breaking of his arms to the North Vietnamesse in prison)
I think you see what you want to see. Most liberals are all for negative ads...til they get them back.
Actually, he broke his arms ejecting from his A4.... but swing it however you want.
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If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
From a guy on Buchanan's website. Would love Mcain to say things like this.
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If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
From a guy on Buchanan's website. Would love Mcain to say things like this.
LOL...The bank's of Jackson's time were just that. Banks.
Today, they are organization's that oversee the creation and downfall of governments, leaders, and political movements worldwide. I'd like to see Bush use those same words today on Wall Street.
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I can't say that I agree that Obama controlled the debate about the economy. Many of his proposals should have been painfully transparent to any thinking voter, and McCain countered them fairly well.
However, Obama should thank his lucky stars that Newt Gingrich wasn't debating him about the economy. I have the feeling that Newt would have eaten him alive on the painful reality of actually having to fund his new programs. For instance, the proposed punitive tax on the evil oil industries would make it impossible for them to take any meaningful steps toward developing alternative fuel sources, and they are the very entities best suited to develop them. Newt made the statement during an interview last week that anyone who thinks taxing corporate profits will not have an effect on the average American isn't really in tune with reality, for millions of those same Americans are employed by those corporations, and could face all sorts of dire consequences as a result.
McCain started slower, but finished stronger. That's good enough to win most prize fights.
Actually I question that the entrenched oil industries are the best entities to develop new technologies because they're going to roll things out in a manner that protects the existing revenue streams. New tech usually comes from start up companies. There's even a name for the phenom: disruptive technologies.
Electricity was a disruptive technology for the whale oil industry.
(bleep)
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If you guys elect ME in November I PROMISE to kick the seat of the pants of anyone who I think is being a tool personally and on live coast to coast television - doesn't matter if they are foreign or domestic!
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Tonight, for what it's worth.... McCain lost the election, but not on substance. I actually thought he was surprisingly decent. I'm one of those Independents everyone talks so much about. His arguments were sometimes good on substance, if not thick at times.
Where he lost is this.... Tonight I watched him and saw an angry, crotchety old man. He did not give his opponent any sort of credit, and seemed to hold open contempt for him. I saw an old man so set in his ways, so as not to listen to any opinion other than those who agree with him. He wouldn't look at Obama. Sneered at him.
Basically, acted like a 72 year old 5 year old.
Mark my words. He lost the election tonight. (when he was good on substance). Many, many people will be turned off by his attitude, and open disrespect toward his opponent.
Of course some of you, who didn't get any love from daddy, will love him for it. You will say he is "strong". I simply said, may people won't like this image of John McCain, hunched over like the Emperor in Star Wars, grumbling angry words about Obama. McCain's performance was not one of strength.... Ask Barack what happened when he lightly shunned Hillary. (dropped 9 points the next day)
IMO, even when the substantive argument went to McCain, Obama still acted more presidential. More grown up, and respectful. Obama narrowly wins this debate, based on this. McCain, loses the election if he continues to act like a geriatric old bastard.
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I thought McCain treated Obama decently. He did get a little condescending to him, but if you had that much life experience, wouldn't you? He repeatedly referred to his opponent as Sen. Obama who in turn was calling him John. I know these guys know each other, but I believed McCain showed a little more class.
That's not a fake smile on his face, it's his smile. The man has had multiple surgeries, so it's gotta be pretty tough to smile anyway. I think it showed Obama getting agitated toward then end when he couldn't get a word in, and I don't blame McCain. The more you get your word in and the less your opponent, the better chance it will stick in the minds of the people you're talking to.
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There was no lack of civility on either side, at least from what I observed. In a debate such as this, both speakers are obliged to go after each other on the issues, and that is what they did. One could say that they respected each other, if not each other's ideas.
My wife, on the other hand, offered an observation that was in direct contrast to Moray's: she thought that it was Obama who was sneering and condescending. I didn't see it that way, but she's a hard case....
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LOL...The bank's of Jackson's time were just that. Banks.
Today, they are organization's that oversee the creation and downfall of governments, leaders, and political movements worldwide. I'd like to see Bush use those same words today on Wall Street.
Can you say "grassy knoll"
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If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
From a guy on Buchanan's website. Would love Mcain to say things like this.
Seems the old dead guy had some more choice words after he crushed the Central Bank.. framed as an interesting warning:
"The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."
Hmmmm... maybe it was the folks that own the banks...
"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes."
Well, it can't be any better if they feed at the government trough..
"I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country."
And, damn if it isn't such a hot idea to put the money press in the hands of a congressional oversight committee made up of wall street puppets.. let alone a former Goldman Sachs CEO treasury secretary.
"If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations."
It seems we've been here before... at least according to History. Wonder if a candidate will get the memo.
*sigh*
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That's not a fake smile on his face, it's his smile. The man has had multiple surgeries, so it's gotta be pretty tough to smile anyway.
If you see his teeth, then that's not a 'fond smile'. :devil
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Maybe with stem cell and genetics research we could create the son of Andrew Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt to be our next candidate for president. (lol I don't mean that in a gay way)
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You know what I find funny, some of you republicans on here always resort to the name calling, it's Osama Obama, or other things like that, yet I really haven't seen any democrats resort to the same level of name calling.
Heheh, I don't know why I said Osama..... I meant to say Senator McCain should have started calling him Barack instead of Senator Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama II is his full name
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Did anyone catch the first thing Barack said to Michelle after he left the podium at the end? As I recall another midwest senator was noted for saying the same thing.
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Don't feel out of place Tool, Obama called John, Tom several times.
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Oh so you missed his campaign mocking that McCain cant use a computer? (Due to the severe torture and breaking of his arms to the North Vietnamesse in prison)
So the reason he can't use a computer is his arm injuries?
Maybe Steven Hawking can email him some tips.
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Looks like Obama was right about the Kissinger comment, Katie Curric said after her interview with Palin she called Kissinger and ask him what his stand was, he said that he does support meetings with unsavory leaders without pre-conditions.
She's in counsel with Kissenger?...Must be some kind off coverup in the works.
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Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"
Well I have to give the benefit of doubt that there would most likely be low level talks before that would ever happen in the real world. I mean you can say that you will meet with anyone, but the reality is you know it likely will not happen that way, so I don't see what the issue is. IMO it's more of a non issue and I didn't think McCain helped himself by making a issue of it.
To me it stressed the fact that McCain wants to continue the hard nosed diplomacy of the past, where Obama says he is open to try other options. It's very clear that the hard nose line hasn't worked well for us in the past, so what is so wrong with actually talking? One thing is very certain, no disagreement has ever been settled by not talking to the other party.
It certainly won't give them legitimacy just because we talked to them, like McCain claims. It will show that we are willing to at least listen to what they have to say, which will give us more legitimacy. It doesn't mean anything will come of it, it shows that we are willing to "try" and work out our differences.
I've never really been a fan of the closed door policy that the US has. Especially when we start with the sanctions crap, that always leads to more problems down the line. The US needs to come to the realisation that we are now in a global economy. We no longer need to try to keep peace with gun boat diplomacy. We can better keep the peace by opening up and trading with these countries and using free market diplomacy.
Think about it, look at our relationship with China, while it is the extreme case we will likely never go to war with China, both countries have far too much to lose and it would cause the failure of each of our economies. While we may not agree with some of the things China does, we now have a bit of power to push them along in the right direction because of our trade with them.
Now look at Cuba. We have pretty much zero talks with them and no power over them other than typical old school gun boat diplomacy. If we opened up talks with Cuba and started trading with them again, we would then likely cause the communist govt to fail over time. I mean think about it, Americans would flock there is droves for vacations and the Cubans would buy American products like crazy. American corporations would be free to do business there which would join our two economies at the hip. That would give us control to nudge them along in the direction we want.
In this day and age the only true diplomacy revolves around open trade between each country. Once that happens those countries will change from the inside on their own. Just look at how far China has come in the last 10 years. Granted they have a long way to go, but they are progressing and have opened up to the West unlike any other Communist regime in the world has ever done.
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check your sources, Kissenger said the secretary of state can meet , but not the President.
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Agree with hang on how it went.. probly about 7-3 to Mccain..
I think the scariest part for any American especially one who believed in individual rights and the constitution was what osamabinbiden said on picking the supreme court judges.
Osambinbiden did nothing to persuade anyone that he was not a total liberal and Mccain did nothing to persuade anyone he was a conservative.
In the end.. those who watched will vote based not at all on the issues.. those undecided will see either that osamabinbiden is a clear winner as an "american idol" type or that he is simply.. a very negro looking guy.
They will vote based on how his voice sounds to them or the color of his skin.
McCain will just be a safe guy for most people. they see him as not going to nutzoid one way or the other.
lazs
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I don't like either one of them. I'd call it a draw. McC wins on foreign policy, Obamessiah wins on economy. Obamessiah stutters a lot but looks into the camera more, better connection with the audience. McC more forceful and direct but looks down at Lehrer too much, need to connect with the audience.
I think either one of them could have won the election tonight on the economy. All that was necessary was for a clear statement in support of the TAXPAYERS instead of Ritchie Rich on the Wall Street Bailout. There have been several plans put forward that solve this crisis from the bottom up instead of the top down. If either one had proposed a bottom up plan, it would have been game/set/match. But both are too chickenshirt to be that bold.
Agree with you Toad.
Lehrer tried to get them to answer clearly. Their perfect chance to show leadership in the midst of a crisis, and both blew it.
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"We can't drill our way out of energy problems..."
Yeah, the idiot and his henchmen think they can TAX their way out of energy demands. Obama and Biden, Dumb and Dumber. An idiot and his lickspittle lackey. What a joke! :lol
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Both showed a lack of leadership on the Economy.
Obama stonewalled on whether or not he was going to be able to bring that big old freight train of new spending into the station with the crisis. Finally admitted, well, maybe have to delay some of it... But, Pelosi and Kennedy et al will not likely allow him to be soft on "social progress" (or they would have promoted Hillery more.
McCain stonewalled on his tax cuts. No one like tax cuts. And you can argue how tax cuts improve the economy. But, Congress both Republican and Democratic will resist deep spending cuts even if McCain says he will push for them. So, what do you do? Just grow the deficit more?
Neither offered substance on the specifics of the bail out, alternatives, etc. Really disappointing.
Otherwise, an edge to McCain and an obvious indication of how marginal our presidential choices are, once again.
Charon
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Both showed a lack of leadership on the Economy.
Obama stonewalled on whether or not he was going to be able to bring that big old freight train of new spending into the station with the crisis. Finally admitted, well, maybe have to delay some of it... But, Pelosi and Kennedy et al will not likely allow him to be soft on "social progress" (or they would have promoted Hillery more.
McCain stonewalled on his tax cuts. No one like tax cuts. And you can argue how tax cuts improve the economy. But, Congress both Republican and Democratic will resist deep spending cuts even if McCain says he will push for them. So, what do you do? Just grow the deficit more?
Neither offered substance on the specifics of the bail out, alternatives, etc. Really disappointing.
Otherwise, an edge to McCain and an obvious indication of how marginal our presidential choices are, once again.
Charon
Yup.
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Hate to say it, but it Obama is owning McCain, wow. Can McCain look any more uncomfortable with that fake smile? Jesus why did we have to run him this year, even though I am well aware it was his last chance, but this was too important. Very disappointed.
Are you serious, you must not have waited for the entire show to end.
Score talley,,,
McCain 1 Obama 0
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check your sources, Kissenger said the secretary of state can meet , but not the President.
And if you watched the debate Obama was saying that Kissinger said he agree to lower level meetings without pre-conditions, he made that clear several times, but McCain for some reason wasn't hearing him.
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Did anyone catch the first thing Barack said to Michelle after he left the podium at the end? As I recall another midwest senator was noted for saying the same thing.
What did he say?
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I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.
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I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.
I'm a Obama supporter and I think McCain won the debate, but this debate was on his strongest subject which is foreign policy, although I think Obama did better on the economy subject, and Obama looked better, not losing his cool like McCain.
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I think the people who back McCain are convinced he did better than Obama, and the people who back Obama think he did better than McCain. I'd be intrested to see what the undecided voters thought.
{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...
MCCAIN
68% 236,251
OBAMA
30% 103,745
NEITHER
2% 8,543
Total Votes: 348,539
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New Debate Rules Allow For One 15-Second Strangulation
September 25, 2008 | Issue 44•39
OXFORD, MS—Amid discussions of possibly postponing the debate altogether, Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) were able to agree Thursday on a new guideline that would allow each candidate one 15-second strangulation during Friday night's presidential debate. "Both candidates will receive two minutes to answer each question, five minutes for discussion, and a one-time-only option to walk over to their opponent's podium and cut off his oxygen supply for up to 15 seconds," a statement from the Commission on Presidential Debates read in part, also specifying that debate moderator Jim Lehrer can exercise his own discretion in determining whether or not the strangulations go over time. "After being choked, the candidate, if still standing, may counter with one of his two allotted empty beer bottles to the head." Because many have agreed the new rule will benefit McCain, the commission has also allotted Obama an optional double-thumbed eye gouge. -onion
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^^^
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Funny funny stuff Holden! :rock
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too many martinis.....
What did who say?
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Bob Barr should have been in the debates, he had 4 terms in Congress... He would have remained in office but the civil rights act gerrymanders our districts every few years...
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Yep, the whole thing was a farce to begin with since they didn't allow Bob Barr there. The mainstream media will do everything in their power to prevent a true Conservative from speaking. McCain is far from being Conservative, he's more like an Old School Democrat.
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I think he attended the new school too...
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"Did anyone catch the first thing Barack said to Michelle after he left the podium at the end? As I recall another midwest senator was noted for saying the same thing.
What did he say?
He asked the question "how're we doing?' which as I recall was phrase often used by Joe McCarthy. Of course it's by no means a unique combination of words, fairly mundane actually. But I guess it became sort of a greeting for him.
Considering the similarities between the two, I just thought it a bit ominous.
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Osambinbiden did nothing to persuade anyone that he was not a total liberal and Mccain did nothing to persuade anyone he was a conservative.
In the end.. those who watched will vote based not at all on the issues.. those undecided will see either that osamabinbiden is a clear winner as an "american idol" type or that he is simply.. a very negro looking guy.
They will vote based on how his voice sounds to them or the color of his skin
He probably will pick up a few votes on dramatics also. Such as the frothing spittle on the bottom lip.
Very dramatic. A little reminiscent of Charlie Manson.....................bu t very dramatic.
Then there is those interested in the communist party. He will pick up a few there also.
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If Obama is going to counter McCain's dead soldier bracelet he oughta at least learn the guy's name of the bracelet he's wearing. His face woulda been beet red if it coulda.
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I damn sure pay my taxes and I'm quite sure I could use a tax break much more than a oil company who just raked in the biggest profits of all time for any industry in the last year. As well as the year before this one.
Do you honestly think the oil industry deserves a tax break more than the average American?
for every dollar the oil company just made off of me and you the gov. got 18 dollars! now tell me who robbed who? sounds like the gov. needs a tax raise, paid back too the people!
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If Obama is going to counter McCain's dead soldier bracelet he oughta at least learn the guy's name of the bracelet he's wearing. His face woulda been beet red if it coulda.
If you watched closely, he actually had to look down and read the name, :rolleyes:
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If you watched closely, he actually had to look down and read the name, :rolleyes:
Thankfully he didn't need help reading the name. What a phony.
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I'm wondering if he even got the name right after stammering and looking down or just made one up on the spot. Anyone know if he ever mentioned the name of the soldier on the bracelet before?
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I'm wondering if he even got the name right after stammering and looking down or just made one up on the spot. Anyone know if he ever mentioned the name of the soldier on the bracelet before?
I wondered that very same thing. I sincerely hope no one gave him a bracelet and he forgot the name, as it would be heart breaking if he were to forget.
I have LTCD William D. Frawley's. Lost over NVN 3-1-66
<S>
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Mine is:
CPT James M. Johnstone
USA 19 NOV 66 Laos
<S>