Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: A8TOOL on December 29, 2008, 09:51:20 PM

Title: Who should die in a collision
Post by: A8TOOL on December 29, 2008, 09:51:20 PM


Who should die in a collision and how is it determined?


The reason I ask is, most of my collisions say the other guy hit me. How do they know that and why does the guy who did the colliding always end up still being able to fly.

I try to get away, i really do but 9 times outta ten I'm the guy left floating.

Seems to me to be if they can determine who collided into who they can determine who should take the most damage to be fair about it. If the guy who intentionally rams knows he won't lose a wing but might smoke his eng, he will exploit that fact. Almost never do I fall to the ground if it was me who gets the  YOU COLLIDED WITH mesg.

 
:)   :furious   :)
   
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: NoBaddy on December 29, 2008, 09:53:38 PM
...not tryin' to be a too (pun intended :)), but, a simple search will show you what you are asking. Generally, folks don't seem to realize that the other guy is probably shooting as well. If you don't get a message saying you collided and you take damage...he shot you.

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 29, 2008, 09:58:38 PM


Seems to me to be if they can determine who collided into who

No they can't determine who collided into who.

It's simple:
Collision detected on your screen: You take damage, actual amount can vary
Collision detected on your enemy's screen: He takes damage, actual amount can vary.



For the rest of the story and why it has to be the way it is, please see the plethora of collision threads on this BBS, also "How lag affects Aces Hight" on the Trainer's webpage.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Treize69 on December 29, 2008, 09:59:53 PM
No they can't determine who collided into who.

It's simple:
Collision detected on your screen: You take damage, actual amount can vary
Collision detected on your enemy's screen: He takes damage, actual amount can vary.



For the rest of the story, please see the plethora of collision threads on this BBS.

"Plethora". Fanciest word I've seen so far today on the BBS.  :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: A8TOOL on December 29, 2008, 10:00:57 PM
When I said i really do try to get out of the way, i was referring mostly to guys who pull up and stir their sticks up right in front of you thinking somehow that will save them.... and it seems to work.

As you know, most of these types of threads spawn here during one school break or another.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 29, 2008, 10:04:25 PM
Tools from my experience...if it says:

You have collided, usually you take 100% damage, opponent takes none or minimal.
<> has collided with you, usually you take no damage, but sometimes will take minimal damage.
Or if both messages come up, both players are going to receive significant damage.

As for how the system decides who crashed into who, well, that's already been explained and is variable at times.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: NoBaddy on December 29, 2008, 10:04:41 PM
When I said i really do try to get out of the way, i was referring mostly to guys who pull up and stir their sticks up right in front of you thinking somehow that will save them.... and it seems to work.

As you know, most of these types of threads spawn here during one school break or another.

Yep, you run into the back of someone...YOU get a collision message and take damage. They can fly away and never even know you were there. Think of it as rear-ending another driver on the city streets...who is gonna get the ticket?

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 29, 2008, 10:05:22 PM
When I said i really do try to get out of the way, i was referring mostly to guys who pull up and stir their sticks up right in front of you thinking somehow that will save them.... and it seems to work.


In that case, it's your own responsibility not to run into him. If you still do, you were too close/fast in the first place. You messed it up. Get new plane ;)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: LYNX on December 29, 2008, 10:08:54 PM

Who should die in a collision and how is it determined?
:)   :furious   :)
   

Easy... the sad avacado that tried to fly into me for the ho.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: A8TOOL on December 29, 2008, 10:11:06 PM
Yep, Plethora is a good word but multitudinous I think is bigger.  :lol

If one guy gets a collided with mesg. the other gets a you collided mesg.  Just seems the guy with the you have collided with mesg should lose in the collision or as in real life both should take heavy damage. That way collisions would be something to try and avoid instead of the take a gamble type mentality I've seen lately.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Masherbrum on December 29, 2008, 10:11:26 PM
No one "dies".   
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 29, 2008, 10:14:35 PM
If one guy gets a collided with mesg. the other gets a you collided mesg.  Just seems the guy with the you have collided with mesg should lose in the collision or as in real life both should take heavy damage. That way collisions would be something to try and avoid instead of the take a gamble type mentality I've seen lately.

Pleaaaasse read about the subject first... It has been explained in lenght why "both should get damage" will result in exact the opposite what you are looking for.

If both get damage, ramming would suddenly really work, and would be almost impossible to dodge for the one being rammed.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Treize69 on December 29, 2008, 10:17:09 PM
Yeah, I've seen vids from both sides of a collision where theres at least a 100' difference between the two- like a solid nose-to-nose hit on one end and an easy miss on the other. net lag and comp speed has a lot to do with who sees what- one guy can think he got deliberately rammed while the other can think he missed by a mile.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 29, 2008, 10:17:45 PM
That is it, I give up.. If multiple pictures/diagrams and films don't help....

Ghhaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 29, 2008, 10:20:13 PM
Yeah, I've seen vids from both sides of a collision where theres at least a 100' difference between the two- like a solid nose-to-nose hit on one end and an easy miss on the other. net lag and comp speed has a lot to do with who sees what- one guy can think he got deliberately rammed while the other can think he missed by a mile.

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1364/rammyfegg1.jpg)

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8728/ramotherfexg7.jpg)

Exact the same moment on both pics. First pic is from Pony's film, second pic is from P-47's film. Only Pony took damage. A8tool wants the P-47 to take damage too.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: A8TOOL on December 29, 2008, 10:33:41 PM
Not all collisions happen with that extreme amount of lag but I (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:wRGw_JZuO8_dTM:http://www.adda-sr.org/giffile/surrender.gif) under the multitudinous amount of posts on the subject.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: ODBAL on December 29, 2008, 10:39:09 PM
I vote for my first wife.  Can I get a hallelujah!
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: lyric1 on December 29, 2008, 10:49:06 PM
If they change the collision model to both go down that would be totally unrealistic for example I offer this guy the last ace from his squadron. http://forum.armyairforces.com/photo.aspx?photoid=1617&asorttype=6&apage=1
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 30, 2008, 01:40:57 AM
Who should die in a collision?  The person who posted the question for the twenty-trillionth time without doing a search first.

(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/Pix999/SMILEYS/BeatingaDeadHorseSmiley.gif)



wrongway
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Zazen13 on December 30, 2008, 01:47:24 AM
The solution is really simple. I have suggested it before. HiTech has shot it down before.

If BOTH FE's agree it's a collision BOTH take damage.

If BOTH FE's DON'T agree it was a collision NEITHER take damage...

Under no circumstances...ever...should just one person take damage from a collision


Do that and suddenly one person's chitty connection isn't ruining another person's time and flight...The reason that would be great is because the crap happens where some warpy bastard playing on a satelite connection from BFE Antarctica warps, you're FE at 30 ms ping sees him warp into you, his 3 second delay PoS connection sees him half a mile away, you go down and he keeps on trucking.

Either do what I wrote above or aggressively boot people from the server if they fail minimally acceptable connection fidelity checks performed regularly by the server....



Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2008, 02:04:47 AM
The solution is really simple. I have suggested it before. HiTech has shot it down before.

If BOTH FE's agree it's a collision BOTH take damage.

If BOTH FE's DON'T agree it was a collision NEITHER take damage...

Under no circumstances...ever...should just one person take damage from a collision



Most of my collisions are "one-sided".. so with your solution I will be able to fly guns blazing through every enemy buff, never having to worry about a collision and getting guaranteed kills on each attack :)

Being an european player with a comparatively high ping, I suddenly have a genuine advantage - I know I have high latency, I know then I will survive most "collisions" because of that high total lag, it's very improbable a collision egisters on both FE's. An American player with a low ping would be at a disadvantage, cause if his enemy is another low-ping user too, the danger of registering a collision on both FE's is much higher. Result: Not only connection stability plays a role - suddenly ping time does matter tremendously. Players with high ping times (yet stable conections) will have a notably higher chance of getting away with suicidal attack tactics.

You are "solving" a occasional warper problem (which does indeed suck) by introducing a massive gameplay problem on several levels.

The current collision model is a very clever and elegant compromise for the internet related lag problem. Every other proposed "solution" is actually much worse for gameplay.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Zazen13 on December 30, 2008, 02:18:09 AM

Most of my collisions are "one-sided".. so with your solution I will be able to fly guns blazing through every enemy buff, never having to worry about a collision and getting guaranteed kills on each attack :)

 


That is precisely why Kesmai gave collisions a good, long, hard look and decided the variablity of global internet connection fidelity made them impractical for implimentation in such a fast paced real-time environment. Far better for you to warp thru someone, both unscathed, than for you to warp through someone, they take damage and you fly on unscathed.

No one gets pissed if they think it was a collision and don't take damage themselves. People get pissed when it was a collision and the other dumb bastard who warped giggles and flies off unscathed while your useless husk that was once the proud receptacle of your pelt pouch full of scalps floats lazily to the ground, broken and fluttering like a fall leaf.

We're talking the lesser of evils here. If we must have collissions make them by consensus and unilateral.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2008, 02:19:25 AM
That is precisely why Kesmai gave collisions a good, long, hard look and decided the variablity of global internet connection fidelity made them impractical for implimentation in such a fast paced real-time environment. Far better for you to warp thru someone, both unscathed, than for you to warp through someone, they take damage and you fly on unscathed.

No one gets pissed if they think it was a collision and don't take damage themselves. People get pissed when it was a collision and the other dumb bastard who warped giggles and flies off unscathed while your useless husk that was once the proud receptacle of your pelt pouch full of scalps floats lazily to the ground, broken and fluttering like a fall leaf.

We're talking the lesser of evils here. If we must have collissions make them by consensus and unilateral.

Your way is by far the bigger evil. See my edit above ;)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Zazen13 on December 30, 2008, 02:21:49 AM
Your way is by far the bigger evil. See my edit above ;)

I do that w/o benefit of collisions. There's two types of planes...Fighters and targets...I am sure if HiTech put his able mind to it he could tweak the detection system to throw out rounds striking from INSIDE the airframe. Something similiar was needed for GVs when jeeps would drive into tigers and shoot them up from the inside. In general the whole collision detection system of AH from the ground up has some issues that need to be resolved. The first and last tank I drove got flipped upside down by a bush that was up to my shin and leafy. That was *cough* NOT an immersive experience...:)

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Ghosth on December 30, 2008, 06:52:21 AM
No actually that is a very good example of not very much lag.

Tool your smart enough to have known better. I am starting to think your turning into a pot stirrer.
You don't care if you win the fight, as long as there is a big messy one going on.

Shame on you sir.


Not all collisions happen with that extreme amount of lag but I (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:wRGw_JZuO8_dTM:http://www.adda-sr.org/giffile/surrender.gif) under the multitudinous amount of posts on the subject.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Max on December 30, 2008, 08:11:42 AM
<----- calls dibs on the 1st Collision gripe thread of 2009. The rest of ya, get in line  :lol
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Fugita on December 30, 2008, 08:27:38 AM
Here's a question for anyone in the know. In a collision between American or European Steel vs. Japanese Rice paper, How in the world does a Japanese plane survive?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: 1pLUs44 on December 30, 2008, 08:32:01 AM
Quote
Who should die in a collision?

Not me, that's who!  :)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: smokey23 on December 30, 2008, 09:02:18 AM
Quote
Here's a question for anyone in the know. In a collision between American or European Steel vs. Japanese Rice paper, How in the world does a Japanese plane survive?

Beware of the always painfull paper cut :cry
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: E25280 on December 30, 2008, 09:13:31 AM
That is precisely why Kesmai gave collisions a good, long, hard look and decided the variablity of global internet connection fidelity made them impractical for implimentation in such a fast paced real-time environment. Far better for you to warp thru someone, both unscathed, than for you to warp through someone, they take damage and you fly on unscathed.
You keep griping about warping, when 95%+ of the collisions that occur in this game have absolutely nothing to do with warping.

The system as it stands is the best solution.  If you don't want to suffer collision damage, then maintain a safe distance from the other aircraft.  It could not be simpler.

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: BaldEagl on December 30, 2008, 09:17:58 AM
Evidently me.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: hammer on December 30, 2008, 09:53:25 AM
...<> has collided with you, usually you take no damage, but sometimes will take minimal damage.

If you took damage but did not receive a "you collided with" message, the damage was not the result of the collision.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2008, 09:55:26 AM
That is precisely why Kesmai gave collisions a good, long, hard look and decided the variablity of global internet connection fidelity made them impractical for implimentation in such a fast paced real-time environment. Far better for you to warp thru someone, both unscathed, than for you to warp through someone, they take damage and you fly on unscathed.

No one gets pissed if they think it was a collision and don't take damage themselves. People get pissed when it was a collision and the other dumb bastard who warped giggles and flies off unscathed while your useless husk that was once the proud receptacle of your pelt pouch full of scalps floats lazily to the ground, broken and fluttering like a fall leaf.

We're talking the lesser of evils here. If we must have collissions make them by consensus and unilateral.

And how well did that decision work out for Kesmai?
.
.
.
.
Seems to me they no longer exist.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 09:58:43 AM


The system as it stands is the best solution.  If you don't want to suffer collision damage, then maintain a safe distance from the other aircraft.  It could not be simpler.


Give that man a cigar. :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Shane on December 30, 2008, 10:02:29 AM

Being an european player with a comparatively high ping, I suddenly have a genuine advantage - I know I have high latency, I know then I will survive most "collisions" because of that high total lag, it's very improbable a collision egisters on both FE's. An American player with a low ping would be at a disadvantage, cause if his enemy is another low-ping user too, the danger of registering a collision on both FE's is much higher. Result: Not only connection stability plays a role - suddenly ping time does matter tremendously. Players with high ping times (yet stable conections) will have a notably higher chance of getting away with suicidal attack tactics.


The current collision model is a very clever and elegant compromise for the internet related lag problem. Every other proposed "solution" is actually much worse for gameplay.


This sums it up quite nicely.

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Shane on December 30, 2008, 10:05:36 AM
And how well did that decision work out for Kesmai?
.
.
.
.
Seems to me they no longer exist.

Well at least kesmai, or rather AW(?) was good for *something.*  They produced/refined/motivated you, in a sense, no?   :aok

You've done well. Very well.  :rock
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: FireDrgn on December 30, 2008, 10:14:55 AM
Pleaaaasse read about the subject first... It has been explained in lenght why "both should get damage" will result in exact the opposite what you are looking for.

If both get damage, ramming would suddenly really work, and would be almost impossible to dodge for the one being rammed.




How would that be any differant than them getting guns on and shooting someone  down.....   If they are that bloody good to get that close to ram there going to shoot the other guy down  anyways. If they want to take their plane down let them.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 10:27:53 AM


How would that be any differant than them getting guns on and shooting someone  down.....   If they are that bloody good to get that close to ram there going to shoot the other guy down  anyways. If they want to take their plane down let them.
Because on your front end you are in a different point in space. You would die to a collision with an ac 100' away.  Do you want that?

See Lusche's pics.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Dawger on December 30, 2008, 11:03:30 AM
Back in Warbirds I wrote a script that randomly turned collisions on and off (its an arena setting) with collisions being off 90% of the time. This ran in the Main Arena over there for over a year and no one ever noticed and complaints about collision code reduced dramatically.

Personally, I think collisions in online games are impossible to implement with any sort of fairness or realism and should be off completely. Random collisions on or off is a good compromise between managing the behavior induced by no collisions and the vagaries of collision coding.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 11:07:13 AM
Back in Warbirds I wrote a script that randomly turned collisions on and off (its an arena setting) with collisions being off 90% of the time. This ran in the Main Arena over there for over a year and no one ever noticed and complaints about collision code reduced dramatically.

Personally, I think collisions in online games are impossible to implement with any sort of fairness or realism and should be off completely. Random collisions on or off is a good compromise between managing the behavior induced by no collisions and the vagaries of collision coding.
Sure turn it off.. Now I'll be able to drive through buffs guns ablaze. Taking no damage from running into em. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: BaldEagl on December 30, 2008, 11:11:43 AM
And how well did that decision work out for Kesmai?
.
.
.
.
Seems to me they no longer exist.

I find it hard to fathom that that single decision was responsible for the demise of Kesmai as you seem to imply.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 11:17:44 AM
Tools from my experience...if it says:

You have collided, usually you take 100% damage, opponent takes none or minimal.
<> has collided with you, usually you take no damage, but sometimes will take minimal damage.
Or if both messages come up, both players are going to receive significant damage.

As for how the system decides who crashed into who, well, that's already been explained and is variable at times.


i think the shortcomming can be in each persons machine too.

in a collision i had with a zeek, i got the white ""XXX has collided with you" i look back, see him going down trailing smoke...as i almost enter a spin. i get control, and get shot down attempting to rtb.
 watched the film....although i never got the orange""you have collided"" message, my film clearly showed the collision. so, although i only got the white message, both of our machines saw it, thus we both suffered. he wasn't shooting either, nor was i.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 11:19:47 AM
i think the shortcomming can be in each persons machine too.

in a collision i had with a zeek, i got the white ""XXX has collided with you" i look back, see him going down trailing smoke...as i almost enter a spin. i get control, and get shot down attempting to rtb.
 watched the film....although i never got the orange""you have collided"" message, my film clearly showed the collision. so, although i only got the white message, both of our machines saw it, thus we both suffered. he wasn't shooting either, nor was i.
You missed the message and the "You have collided." doesn't show in film.

Lusche's pic do not show this so i'll post mine.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 11:21:36 AM
Yep, you run into the back of someone...YOU get a collision message and take damage. They can fly away and never even know you were there. Think of it as rear-ending another driver on the city streets...who is gonna get the ticket?



back when i still flew EW with the HG, i was in ju88;s. had a 109(i think) dive on me....and collided with me. 0 damage for me, he went boom. he re-ups, comes back for me......same thing. 3rd time 'round, he comes in on me with much more control.......flys right up my tailpipes.....and hits my right wing....again, 0 damage for me, and this time he only lost a couple parts...and spun into the cartoon ground.  was friggin  :rofl :rofl :rofl

he apologized too...he said he was learning the plane. i said no problem, and thanks for the free kills.  :D
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 11:26:21 AM
You missed the message and the "You have collided." doesn't show in film.

i saw the white one....wouldn't the orange one have been right with it?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 11:28:00 AM
i saw the white one....wouldn't the orange one have been right with it?
You still missed it.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 30, 2008, 12:23:46 PM
   I know AH tries to simulate realistic combat but in real life collisions don't both aircraft usually go down? Maybe a rare occurrence with a fighter and Bomber like the ramming campaign of the Luftwaffe.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 12:34:13 PM
   I know AH tries to simulate realistic combat but in real life collisions don't both aircraft usually go down? Maybe a rare occurrence with a fighter and Bomber like the ramming campaign of the Luftwaffe.

Try looking at the pics I posted. Tell me why the lead spit in the top pic should take damage hmmmm?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: NoBaddy on December 30, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
   I know AH tries to simulate realistic combat but in real life collisions don't both aircraft usually go down? Maybe a rare occurrence with a fighter and Bomber like the ramming campaign of the Luftwaffe.

The collision model is not there to simulate real life. It is there to prevent opponents from flying through each others planes with guns blazing.

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Shuffler on December 30, 2008, 12:40:35 PM
I can answer this once you grab this pebble from my hand grasshopper.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 12:41:47 PM
   I know AH tries to simulate realistic combat but in real life collisions don't both aircraft usually go down? Maybe a rare occurrence with a fighter and Bomber like the ramming campaign of the Luftwaffe.

check this link. simulated combat mission.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Zazen13 on December 30, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
And how well did that decision work out for Kesmai?
.
.
.
.
Seems to me they no longer exist.

Hitech,

I'm fairly certain Kesmai's victimization by corporate skullduggery had absolutely nothing to do with their philosophical posture on the technological limitations of modelling air to air collisions over the internet... ;)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Dawger on December 30, 2008, 01:50:12 PM
Sure turn it off.. Now I'll be able to drive through buffs guns ablaze. Taking no damage from running into em. :rolleyes:

I don't think you read my post. Not off. Randomly off and on. A reduction in the dissatisfaction inherent to collision modeling but enough collisions to keep people honest.

I could be that way right now and you wouldn't even know it. I suspect it may be. If it is that way I'd like the percentage off to be higher:)

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 01:51:39 PM


I could be that way right now and you wouldn't even know it. I suspect it may be. If it is that way I'd like the percentage off to be higher:)



I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Karnak on December 30, 2008, 01:52:56 PM
Not all collisions happen with that extreme amount of lag but I (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:wRGw_JZuO8_dTM:http://www.adda-sr.org/giffile/surrender.gif) under the multitudinous amount of posts on the subject.
That lag was not extreme.  In fact it was quite moderate.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: E25280 on December 30, 2008, 02:58:29 PM
   I know AH tries to simulate realistic combat but in real life collisions don't both aircraft usually go down?
Check out at about 5:40 . . .

Long Odds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1NTUzj7cGw&feature=related)

Clearly, in real life, the collision model is porked.   :noid
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 30, 2008, 03:07:22 PM
The collision model is not there to simulate real life. It is there to prevent opponents from flying through each others planes with guns blazing.


   Most of the time collisions are head on. Also I've had the message X has collided with you and I'm toast and his (Usually a Spit) plane flies off into the sunset. A solution to stop collisions would be for both aircraft to be disabled thus causing pilots to avoid headon attacks. I can understand glancing hits but some use the head on tactic too much. :mad:
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Enker on December 30, 2008, 04:00:30 PM
Not me, that's who!  :)
Thats the problem, you are "Not me" to everybody but you.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: sntslilhlpr6601 on December 30, 2008, 04:11:16 PM

The system as it stands is the best solution.  If you don't want to suffer collision damage, then maintain a safe distance from the other aircraft.  It could not be simpler.


[/thread]

It's really not that hard to understand once you get a grasp of latency. Light travels extremely fast but it's not instantaneous, therefore what you see and what the opponent sees is slightly different. "Both go down" is simply not feasible on the internet.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: smokey23 on December 30, 2008, 04:11:44 PM
I got it I SHOULD DIE in every collision seems i do anyway wether its my fault or not. however from what i understand from all the guru's that spend their time playing this game its because, I have a latency in my protracted floppy whitch intern pulls GB from my twisted parodoqical ram and therefore creates a laguistic compromise in my bytes and cause me to lose a tail and DIE :rofl :rofl and i thought it was because someone ran into my cartoon plane...imagine that :salute
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2008, 04:11:56 PM
   Most of the time collisions are head on. Also I've had the message X has collided with you and I'm toast and his (Usually a Spit) plane flies off into the sunset. A solution to stop collisions would be for both aircraft to be disabled thus causing pilots to avoid headon attacks. I can understand glancing hits but some use the head on tactic too much. :mad:

I have a much much better way for stop collisions.

DO NOT FLY INTO THE OTHER PLANE.

HiTech
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:13:15 PM
   Most of the time collisions are head on. Also I've had the message X has collided with you and I'm toast and his (Usually a Spit) plane flies off into the sunset. A solution to stop collisions would be for both aircraft to be disabled thus causing pilots to avoid headon attacks. I can understand glancing hits but some use the head on tactic too much. :mad:

well.....you found em out. hitech delibretley modeled this so that spits could survive anything. wait'll he installs the "warp drive bug" in the game.....just for the spit 16.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:14:06 PM
I have a much much better way for stop collisions.

DO NOT FLY INTO THE OTHER PLANE.

HiTech

What about if a collision message appears, no matter who is at fault, both planes die. That is simple and easy, and should reduce Hoing too.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2008, 04:22:26 PM
What about if a collision message appears, no matter who is at fault, both planes die. That is simple and easy, and should reduce Hoing too.

The system never tulips FAULT in a collision. And once again, see the pictures because I am sure you will love taking damage when that plane 100 yards behind you collides with you.

Now think about the result of a head on, the person who avoids the collision is now at the disadvantage,so of course he will now try to do the collision, so the end result is a lot MORE collisions and whining.

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 04:24:11 PM
I have a much much better way for stop collisions.

DO NOT FLY INTO THE OTHER PLANE.

HiTech

From my experience this comment is...dead on.  I've never had a problem with the collision model.  Whenever there is a collision, I always felt that even if it was his fault, it was still mine too for not anticipating it.  Playing from the midwest though, I have a very good connection so it functions correctly for me.  Europe might be a whole other story.  Lusche, I hope you don't get rammed consistently like your screen cap shows, that would be very frustrating and I could definitely see why some would question the model even if it's entirely a latency issue.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2008, 04:28:24 PM
From my experience this comment is...dead on.  I've never had a problem with the collision model.  Whenever there is a collision, I always felt that even if it was his fault, it was still mine too for not anticipating it.  Playing from the midwest though, I have a very good connection so it functions correctly for me.  Europe might be a whole other story.  Lusche, I hope you don't get rammed consistently like your screen cap shows, that would be very frustrating and I could definitely see why some would question the model even if it's entirely a latency issue.

The good thing in current collision modeling, my ping doesn't matter at all. What I see is what I get, just like any other player.
BTW, the one doing the ram (and getting all the damage) was me ;)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 04:30:44 PM
What about if a collision message appears, no matter who is at fault, both planes die. That is simple and easy, and should reduce Hoing too.


Yeah, I am sure everybody would be thrilled to die in a collision with a plane 100-300' away.

That sure does makes a whole lot more sense than only taking damage if you actually hit them like we have now.


Do you even think before you post?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:33:16 PM
What about if a collision message appears, no matter who is at fault, both planes die. That is simple and easy, and should reduce Hoing too.

DUDE....

didn't you get it et?

your "reality" and mine, are different at any given time ingame.

look at lusches, or bronks pictures. they explain it all.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:35:12 PM

Yeah, I am sure everybody would be thrilled to die in a collision with a plane 100-300' away.

That sure does makes a whole lot more sense than only taking damage if you actually hit them like we have now.


Do you even think before you post?

If 2 planes collide, then they both should die. Why should one plane get the benefit over another because of connection issues (which no one has control over). I've never collided with someone 100'-300' away. Both planes die is simple and straight forward.

Do you ever think before you post?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:36:06 PM

Yeah, I am sure everybody would be thrilled to die in a collision with a plane 100-300' away.

That sure does makes a whole lot more sense than only taking damage if you actually hit them like we have now.


Do you even think before you post?

ya know what dude....i didn't think before i responded to the same post of his that you did.

he does think before he types.

he was/is fishing again. and he got at least two of us.  :rofl
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:37:20 PM
If 2 planes collide, then they both should die. Why should one plane get the benefit over another because of connection issues (which no one has control over). I've never collided with someone 100'-300' away. Both planes die is simple and straight forward.

Do you ever think before you post?


lets try it this way.


BECAUSE IT'S WHAT YOUR COMPUTER SEES!!!! NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!


 :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 04:38:32 PM
The good thing in current collision modeling, my ping doesn't matter at all. What I see is what I get, just like any other player.
BTW, the one doing the ram (and getting all the damage) was me ;)

Well, for the most part.  I'm fairly certain I have only received the White collision message before and incurred some damage, such as an oil leak or a broken aileron.  Phantom collisions should be more frequent for European players than U.S. players I'd imagine.  Of course, as long as you keep the collision off your screen, you shouldn't incur any fatal damage.  It really is a genius model.  Can't please everyone.  :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2008, 04:39:25 PM
I've never collided with someone 100'-300' away.

Of course not. Because that would only happen if we implement the "BOTH GO DOWN" :)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: dunnrite on December 30, 2008, 04:42:11 PM
Of course not. Because that would only happen if we implement the "BOTH GO DOWN" :)
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:42:37 PM
Of course not. Because that would only happen if we implement the "BOTH GO DOWN" :)

Why is it that whenever it is the other person's fault for the collision, I die? I hardly ever win collisions. What do I need to do to win?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
Why is it that whenever it is the other person's fault for the collision, I die? I hardly ever win collisions. What do I need to do to win?

Don't collide? Move your plane? Have somewhat of a grasp of how the model works.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:44:14 PM
Don't collide?

True....However, I found through a little research that if you strike the other plane with your tail first, then you usually win. Does that ring true for anyone else?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:45:35 PM
Why is it that whenever it is the other person's fault for the collision, I die? I hardly ever win collisions. What do I need to do to win?
YOU NEED TO NOT HIT THE OTHER AIRCRAFT ON YOUR COMPUTER. THEN YOU CAN'T/WON'T DIE FROM A COLLISION THAT HAPPENED ON YOUR COMPUTER. WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET SEE AND AVOID. NO CONTACT ON YOUR MACHINE, NO COLLISION FOR YOU.



 :rolleyes: :D :aok

AM I yelling loud enough yet?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 04:47:36 PM
If 2 planes collide, then they both should die. Why should one plane get the benefit over another because of connection issues (which no one has control over). I've never collided with someone 100'-300' away. Both planes die is simple and straight forward.

Do you ever think before you post?

4 planes in a 1 on 1.

Look at the pics provided.  2 planes in one picture colliding (that players FE) and 2 planes in the other 100' apart (that players FE).  (in other words 4 planes in a 1 on 1)

Just because 2 of 'em collided doesn't mean the other 2 did as well.



(and i'm not the one failing to "get it" so I get to play the high and mighty "Think before you post" card kiddo)


(edit: and I know he's just trolling Cap1.  nobody can be that dumb)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 04:48:21 PM
When numties collide see 24's posts. :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 04:49:30 PM
True....However, I found through a little research that if you strike the other plane with your tail first, then you usually win. Does that ring true for anyone else?

Yes.  If I'm scissoring or braking or whatever....I'm slowing down.  The guy behind me crashes into my tail.  Odds are, he's going to incur more damage than me.  He will hit me on his screen BEFORE it registers collision on my screen due to latency.  If he flies completely through me, we will probably both die since my computer will probably register this action as well.

How is this a good example of being a collision martyr? Come up with a better example where it isn't 100% your fault like you say happens to you all the time.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:49:59 PM
4 planes in a 1 on 1.

Look at the pics provided.  2 planes in one picture colliding (that players FE) and 2 planes in the other 100' apart (that players FE).

Just because 2 of 'em collided doesn't mean the other 2 did as well.



(and i'm not the one failing to "get it" so I get to play the high and mighty "Think before you post" card kiddo)

Sorry I didnt understand.

I'm sick of the veteran players treating the new players (like myself) like trash. Your elitist attitude and your ego should go elsewhere. No wonder new subscriptions are suffering.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2008, 04:50:46 PM
Why is it that whenever it is the other person's fault for the collision, I die? I hardly ever win collisions. What do I need to do to win?

First, you need to throw away the concept of "winning" or "losing" a collision. There is no such thing. There is no way to win a collision - if it happens on your screen, you take damage. If he didn't take any, there was no collision on his screen.

Again, if "both go down" you would start to die from "collisions" that never happened on your screen at all. See the pocs again. Enemy pony flies by at 100' or more distance and *poof* - You have collided! - That would happen when "both go down". Ramming would really work, as it would never fail to hurt you opponent. And the rammed one could hardly dodge what we can't even see.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Yes.  If I'm scissoring or braking or whatever....I'm slowing down.  The guy behind me crashes into my tail.  Odds are, he's going to incur more damage than me.  He will hit me on his screen BEFORE it registers collision on my screen due to latency.  If he flies completely through me, we will probably both die since my computer will probably register this action as well.

How is this a good example of being a collision martyr? Come up with a better example where it isn't 100% your fault like you say happens to you all the time.

What about stray bombers in a formation magically warping into my airplane? Ever had that happen?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 04:53:07 PM
Sorry I didnt understand.

I'm sick of the veteran players treating the new players (like myself) like trash. Your elitist attitude and your ego should go elsewhere. No wonder new subscriptions are suffering.

Uhh... that's a pretty weak troll there 24 (even for you).

And you are hardly a "new" player.

How about your petty trolling, constant trouble making and 6 year old thread bumps go elsewhere instead?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 04:53:45 PM
What about stray bombers in a formation magically warping into my airplane? Ever had that happen?

That's an entirely different issue.  And a rare one at that.  Drones do warp sometimes when the main bomber is making a turn.  Although I would have to say a drone warping directly into me for a collision has probably happened once or twice in thousands of hours of flight time.  Not really an issue, try again.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 30, 2008, 04:56:31 PM
Sorry I didnt understand.

I'm sick of the veteran players treating the new players (like myself) like trash. Your elitist attitude and your ego should go elsewhere. No wonder new subscriptions are suffering.

no one's treating you like trash. this subject has come up many many times. it does take a bit to understand it. bronk ans lusche have explained it with pictures and everything.....in at least 3 threads that i remember.

untill a couple weeks ago, i "kinda" got it.

then i had a collision with a zeek, in which the lightbulb lit up, and i got it.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 04:59:43 PM
Uhh... that's a pretty weak troll there 24 (even for you).

And you are hardly a "new" player.

How about your petty trolling, constant trouble making and 6 year old thread bumps go elsewhere instead?

Trouble making? I'm all about improving our community. I think a close community is a strong community. This has been my mission all along. I love to have productive debates that end in a real resolution. The Rolling Thunder vs. Joker's thread got out of hand. I had no part in any bashing or anything like that. I just merely wanted a constructive debate about who was the better overall squad.

As far as the P51H thread, I was looking at footage of it on Youtube and wikipedia. I searched for it on the forums and found a thread about it. I didn't look at the date, I just posted out of excitement. Sorry, that I'm so passionate about this game and community. Sorry that I try to make this game competitve again. You have really managed to tear down my ILAC sign and I'm going to have a hard time building it back up.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 05:16:12 PM
ILAC?

International Laboratory Accreditation Cooperation?
Institute for Latin American Concern?
International Lhasa Apso Congress?
Institutional Learning and Change?
Instructional Leadership and Academic Curriculum?
In-Line Amplifier Card?
International Association of Lactation Consultants?

or do you mean 'I am Loveable and Capable.'?

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: TwentyFo on December 30, 2008, 05:17:22 PM

or do you mean 'I am Loveable and Capable.'?


Yes exactly. I'm Loving And Caring

Everyone wears an invisible ILAC sign that can be torn down by insults and put downs from others. It can be rebuilt by compliments and good deeds.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 05:18:34 PM
Yes exactly. I'm Loving And Caring

Do you perchance do macrame?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: BaldEagl on December 30, 2008, 05:23:33 PM
I want to know why this is (posts from another thread on this topic).  It seems those with fast computers/connections are penalized:

That may explain why every single time I end up in a co-collision I die, the other guy gets the kill and I get nothing.  It works that way EVERY single time.

I do now have a high end computer and a good, fast internet connection

I could accept that in a one-way collision but I'm talking about us both hitting each other.  The collision messages are there for both of us.  I would think once in a while I would be the one to get the kill but that's not the case.  My opponent gets it EVERY time.

But just to be clear.  We both get collision messages.  I die.  My opponent gets credited with a kill.  I never get credited with a kill... EVER.

Why am I the only one ever to die during these co-collisions?  I would think that over time they'd balance at 50/50 but they don't.  It's been like this since i built my new computer.  Prior to that it was about 50/50.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 05:26:33 PM
I want to know why this is (posts from another thread on this topic).  It seems those with fast computers/connections are penalized:

And you've been told NO. What you see is what you get. Stop flying into other AC. :aok

Pictures and film not enough.

 :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: BaldEagl on December 30, 2008, 05:29:25 PM
And you've been told NO. What you see is what you get. Stop flying into other AC. :aok

Pictures and film not enough.

 :rofl :rofl

I'm talking about mutual collisons.  I'm totally fine with the way one sided collisions work.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Motherland on December 30, 2008, 05:30:04 PM
I want to know why this is (posts from another thread on this topic).  It seems those with fast computers/connections are penalized:

It seems you're just bailing out before your enemy is. Or maybe he fired or you didn't?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 05:32:23 PM
I'm talking about mutual collisons.  I'm totally fine with the way one sided collisions work.
It depends on what part of his ac hit your ac.

If your cockpit goes through his wing on your front end....you die.
On his, he could do as little as clipped an elevator.

You have no way of knowing without your opponents film.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: grizz441 on December 30, 2008, 05:32:39 PM
I want to know why this is (posts from another thread on this topic).  It seems those with fast computers/connections are penalized:


BaldEagl I think the misconception is that you think your opponent is flying through you like you are flying through him hehe.  He might be grazing you as you go guns a blazin through him and while you both see the collision message, you wonder why you are never "winning" the collisions.  Like Lusche said you can't win or lose a collision, just avoid them. 

As complicated as it can be made it's pretty simple.  Don't crash into the AC!  You will never 'lose' a collision if you never collide.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Dadsguns on December 30, 2008, 07:12:40 PM
I'm talking about mutual collisions.  I'm totally fine with the way one sided collisions work.

Eagl,
Your correct in what your asking.  The computer that can decipher and send that signal faster than another will most certainly be penalized or awarded the collision.  Speed is of the essence.

 :lol
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: NoBaddy on December 30, 2008, 07:36:19 PM
A solution to stop collisions would be for both aircraft to be disabled thus causing pilots to avoid headon attacks. I can understand glancing hits but some use the head on tactic too much. :mad:

Your "solution" would make ramming a viable tactic to stop an enemy aircraft. HT has refused to do that. A better solution is to avoid situations that cause collisions...ie., fly better.  :aok

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 09:32:22 PM
Eagl,
Your correct in what your asking.  The computer that can decipher and send that signal faster than another will most certainly be penalized or awarded the collision.  Speed is of the essence.

 :lol
No it wont. Because the collision is determined on YOUR front end numty. You can't get much faster than that.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 30, 2008, 10:31:03 PM
No it wont. Because the collision is determined on YOUR front end numty. You can't get much faster than that.

Correct.

Connection has zero to do with it.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Shane on December 31, 2008, 12:38:25 AM
Correct.

Connection has zero to do with it.

bzzzt  connection has everything to do with it.  The closer the relative connections, the more likely both take damage proportionately.  Conversely, the greater the disparity, only one may see the message and take damage.  It's all about connections... the lesser variable is our human response time in trying to avoid a collision if possible/desired.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: WMLute on December 31, 2008, 01:13:13 AM
bzzzt  connection has everything to do with it.  The closer the relative connections, the more likely both take damage proportionately.  Conversely, the greater the disparity, only one may see the message and take damage.  It's all about connections... the lesser variable is our human response time in trying to avoid a collision if possible/desired.

bzzzzzt no not really.

Collisions are detected on your own FE.  Whether I hit the nme plane I am fighting or not has to do with what I am seeing on my Front End.  Not theirs, not both, mine.


I DO see what your are getting at.  The closer the connection the closer what both players are seeing will be.  Using the old analogy about the nme plane towing another plane behind it, and THAT is the one you are seeing on your Front End, the closer the connection, the shorter the tow "rope".

So if both players filmed the fight...

The closer the disparity of the connection the more similar the fight will look on both films.  (I fly right by you on my film missing by 20' whereas you see us collide or vs. versa) 

The larger the disparity of the connections the less similar the fight will look on both films.  (I fly right by you on my film missing by 200' whereas you see us collide or vs. versa)


But...

Whether or not we actually collide has nothing to do with connections.  It has EVERYTHING to do with what you see on your Front End.  If I collide with someone on my FE it doesn't matter that due to connection they REALLY are 100' away.  My FE sees the collision and then sends the report of that collisions to the server, which sends it to the other player with the message "WMLute has collided with you".

I collided and took damage because I saw it on my Front End.

The FE decides the collision, not the AH server.  The server is just acting as the middle man for both players Front Ends. 

Which is why I always say in a 1 on 1 fight there are really 4 planes. 
The two on your Front End (my towed plane and you) and the two on mine (your towed plane and me).

IF the Sever decided who collides your would be correct.

It doesn't, and you aren't.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Fugita on December 31, 2008, 07:09:37 AM
I got it I SHOULD DIE in every collision seems i do anyway wether its my fault or not. however from what i understand from all the guru's that spend their time playing this game its because, I have a latency in my protracted floppy whitch intern pulls GB from my twisted parodoqical ram and therefore creates a laguistic compromise in my bytes and cause me to lose a tail and DIE :rofl :rofl and i thought it was because someone ran into my cartoon plane...imagine that :salute


I think the fact that you have latency in your protracted floppy is bad enough :rofl
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: smokey23 on December 31, 2008, 08:46:20 AM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl I couldnt help  myself fugi everytime someone brings up a question like this out come all the computer geeks and their technical jibberish about somethin that most people dont understand in the first place. All most people know is that someone crashed into their cartoon plane, I'd be pissed to cause it has happened to me alot especially during squeeker season.The thing that makes me laugh is that when they hit you and it clearly says " pilot 1 has collided with you" and they PM you callin you a dweeb and other assorted generation whine insults. :rofl :rofl  :salute

OH and leave my protracted floppy alone :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
:rofl :rofl :rofl I couldnt help  myself fugi everytime someone brings up a question like this out come all the computer geeks and their technical jibberish about somethin that most people dont understand in the first place. All most people know is that someone crashed into their cartoon plane, I'd be pissed to cause it has happened to me alot especially during squeeker season.The thing that makes me laugh is that when they hit you and it clearly says " pilot 1 has collided with you" and they PM you callin you a dweeb and other assorted generation whine insults. :rofl :rofl  :salute

OH and leave my protracted floppy alone :rofl :rofl :rofl

Wow 2 pictures from 2 front ends of the same collision.  Major techno gibberish there.
So simple an noe horde monkey can understand.....well maybe not.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 31, 2008, 11:25:17 AM
Your "solution" would make ramming a viable tactic to stop an enemy aircraft. HT has refused to do that. A better solution is to avoid situations that cause collisions...ie., fly better.  :aok


        Ramming is a tactic now. I guess I must stop trying to avoid a collision for while I'm avoiding the dweeb spit is not and getting the reward.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 11:26:56 AM
        Ramming is a tactic now. I guess I must stop trying to avoid a collision for while I'm avoiding the dweeb spit is not and getting the reward.
LOL priceless.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 11:29:19 AM
        Ramming is a tactic now. I guess I must stop trying to avoid a collision for while I'm avoiding the dweeb spit is not and getting the reward.


DUDE.....

alll you have to do, is to avoide him on your computer. if your computer doesn't see any collision, there wasn't one in your "reality", only your opponents.  if you took damage, then he was firing.


BRONK.....in the films, do BOTH collision messages not show up, or only the orange "you have collided" message?
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 11:31:13 AM



BRONK.....in the films, do BOTH collision messages not show up, or only the orange "you have collided" message?
You only see the white text informing you your opponent has collided.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 11:35:09 AM
You only see the white text informing you your opponent has collided.

ok...wasn't sure, as i was going through films late last night(read that early this morning) and found one with hitman consistantly trying to ho me..... got tired of it, and returned the favor, but broke off too late, and collided. i could have sworn i had both on that one, but in watching it, only the white message showed up.

ran me wing directly through his engine.  :D
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 31, 2008, 11:40:13 AM
  To avoid Collision: Spot AC heading towards you, turn away and allow DWEEB to get on your 6, then open a channel to him and ask if he will let you go unharmed, smile as your tail is shot off and bail while shooting him with your 45. Up another AC and Repeat.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 11:40:51 AM
  To avoid Collision: Spot AC heading towards you, turn away and allow DWEEB to get on your 6, then open a channel to him and ask if he will let you go unharmed, smile as your tail is shot off and bail while shooting him with your 45. Up another AC and Repeat.
lol lots to learn :aok
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 12:18:36 PM
  To avoid Collision: Spot AC heading towards you, turn away and allow DWEEB to get on your 6, then open a channel to him and ask if he will let you go unharmed, smile as your tail is shot off and bail while shooting him with your 45. Up another AC and Repeat.

ooorrrrr...

you could do something silly, like.....oooo...i dunno......fly under or around or over him. my preference is under slightly to the side, and come up over the top. it prolongs the agony of my eventual defeat, but at least at that point, i've managed to have a fight.  :aok :rofl
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 31, 2008, 01:43:10 PM
  It's known that certain planes are modeled to come out on top in a collision and some fly them knowing that. They will kamikaze you. It's hard to avoid those collisions in a furball. I only had one collision in four hours of fighting last night so I guess I'm learning to fly after all these years. I've learned so much from the wisdom on the forums :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: pluck on December 31, 2008, 01:46:19 PM
This is all very simple.  The person who should die is the one, or both, who collide.

If you hit him, you take damage.
If He hits you, they take damage.
If you both hit, you both take damage.

Just like in the real world, if you don't collide, you don't take damage.  The only difference is that this isn't the real world and for every player there is a different reality. Unlike the realworld, we are trying to shoot at people who's real location is hundreds or thousands of miles away, in which the internet tricks us into thinking they are yards away.  Because of this...you might very well collide with someone...however, the other person saw no collision in their reality...in fact they were 100 yards, 50 yards, 20 yards, away...you pick.

The only variable is what the other guys computer see's.  I don't see how making someone take damage, who didn't actually collide is fair.  Turning off collisions would be as bad as making someone take damage if they didn't collide at all...though it might be amusing watching a pony dive on me, fly through my tail, through my cockpit, and emerge on the other side....would set up easy overshoot, provided he doesn't tear my pilot/plane apart from the inside out.  I'm sure both would get old really quick.

I guess you have to try and figure out what is more realistic.

-A world where you can fly through solid objects without fear  (remove all responsibility from everyone in collisons, but severly effecting gameplay and immersion)
    -the winners of this reality...people who believe collisions don't happen and those who are able to believe solid objects can pass each other without incident.
-A world where you can take damage seemingly from nowhere and through no fault of your own. (taking away all your abilites to dodge a plane, and giving all trust to your enemy not to)
    -the winners of this reality... people who want to ram
-A world where you take damage if you see a collision...even if the other person does not. This gives responsibility to you, if you risk a collision, you might collide.  All the other scenario's remove your responsibility, and the second one actually makes it your enemy's responsibility (not yours) to not ram you.
    -the winners of this realilty....the people who don't see a collision.
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
  It's known that certain planes are modeled to come out on top in a collision and some fly them knowing that. They will kamikaze you. It's hard to avoid those collisions in a furball. I only had one collision in four hours of fighting last night so I guess I'm learning to fly after all these years. I've learned so much from the wisdom on the forums :rolleyes:

YA......

the spitfires are impervious to collisions, gunfire, and the laws of physics.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 02:06:53 PM
YA......

the spitfires are impervious to collisions, gunfire, and the laws of physics.  :rolleyes:
Shhhh it's a secret. :furious :furious
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 31, 2008, 02:08:36 PM
YA......

the spitfires are impervious to collisions, gunfire, and the laws of physics.  :rolleyes:
          I knew it! That explains everything. You have been so helpful with the issue of collisions. You have added so much. I appreciate those that wish to help explain the physics of the game and not to just dismiss those that think it could be a problem in the program. :aok  
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Bronk on December 31, 2008, 02:29:38 PM
Whew glad he didn't tell him about the FM2...... sonofa..... now I'm doing it. ;)
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Banshee7 on December 31, 2008, 02:35:06 PM
Whew glad he didn't tell him about the D3A1...... sonofa..... now I'm doing it. ;)

cleared....i dont see anything about an FM2...do you....oh wait...jeez
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: Slate on December 31, 2008, 02:36:25 PM
Whew glad he didn't tell him about the FM2...... sonofa..... now I'm doing it. ;)
          I promise to drink away all memory of what I have read today tonight. Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 02:38:38 PM
          I knew it! That explains everything. You have been so helpful with the issue of collisions. You have added so much. I appreciate those that wish to help explain the physics of the game and not to just dismiss those that think it could be a problem in the program. :aok  

actually, i did try to help. read back a few pages. then i started yelling a page or two after that. now i'm joking/being sarcastic.

 but i'll try the simple version again.

regardless of your connection, you will not collide if you follow thgis one simple rule. we use it in GA all the time.

see and avoid.

it's that simple.

if yoiu and i were in a dogfight, and i'm delebretly trying to ram you, i can't. when my machine sees that, it'll assign damage to me. as long as you're avoiding me, and your machine never sees the collision, you'll get off unscathed.

 i also mentioned a few pages ago, about the 109 that rammed me in my ju88's. he did this 3 times. he re-upped eachj time. i never took any damage from his hits. in my view, though, he never hit me.]]

Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 02:39:14 PM
Whew glad he didn't tell him about the FM2...... sonofa..... now I'm doing it. ;)

so THAT'S how lazy gets soo many kills in that plane!!!!!! :noid
Title: Re: Who should die in a collision
Post by: CAP1 on December 31, 2008, 02:40:13 PM
cleared....i dont see anything about an FM2...do you....oh wait...jeez


these are not the droids you're looking for.