Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: StokesAk on January 29, 2009, 07:29:52 PM
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I think we should have an option where a squad can add wings to it but still be able to use the red squad channel and red vox, (.sr command). This would be easy to do in my opinion and it would stop the inconvenience of knowing who's on.
Any suggestions?
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HTC limits the number in a single squad for a reason. So i say NO!!!! These mega squads ruin game play enough.
Have a nice day
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I think that if he only were to request to be able to locate members of squad wings and not asking for vox or other squad privileges that would be reasonable. Setting a squad channel does allow for communication much in the way it was proposed, so no need to attach squads in that way.
If we want to start a discussion on what has damaged gameplay, there is much to discuss outside the realm of squad activity.
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Good idea Stokes.
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HTC limits the number in a single squad for a reason.
Yea, because there's a unit structure
A Flight is 4-6 aircraft
A Squadron is 3-4 Flights
A Group is 2-10 Squadrons
A Wing is 2+ Groups
An Air Force (eg. 8th Air Force) is 2+ wings
HTC says a squadron is 32 players (as opposed to USAAF 12-24 planes). More that is a higher unit than "a squadron", period.
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yeah we have 3 wings but I can only locate the ones in my wing with the sr command-would like to be able to see all wings located with that command
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I think what the OP means is to enable Squad channel to all wings. Lets face it, people side track Hitechs carefully laid plans all the time. You can have various wings of it. Going by my squad, 71 has three wings, so im assuming that counts as three differant squads but with the same name? 71 Eagle Squadron A wing. 71 Squadron B wing etc.
What the op is asking is to enable squad chat to all wings. I think its a decent post, and im for it
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Hello....o.. ooo? Use a set squad channel and u have vox chat and text chat. What Stokes is asking for that is not presently available is to locate members that are not in his squadron. What might work is a new command such as to search for squad members by squad name.
.sqdsr squadname (enable * wildcard in case of long or multiple squad names)
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Hello....o.. ooo? Use a set squad channel and u have vox chat and text chat. What Stokes is asking for that is not presently available is to locate members that are not in his squadron. What might work is a new command such as to search for squad members by squad name.
.sqdsr squadname (enable * wildcard in case of long or multiple squad names)
We both ment the same thing, I just never phrased it well. But it would also be handy if your in other arena's and wish to contact your squad. Currently you can only contact your wing. What the OP proposes is to be able to contact your whole squad, to which I wholeheartendly agree
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No
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Oh come on Bronk...you know squad like RT and JJs need to know where ALL their squaddies are
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2nd if anyone else tells me they have a 70 member squad, I think I will just eject them. There is no such thing as a 70 person squad in AH.
Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.
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16 sounds good. :aok
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No thank you.
And the more posts I see of Hitech's the more respect I gain for him. He knows whats up.
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HiTech better get busy. Just a quick look at the squads page:
Claim Jumpers: 8 wings and 107 members
Bops: 6 wings and 72 members
LCA: 5 wings and 69 members
POTW: 3 wings and 67 members
Rolling Thunder 3 wings and 62 members
71st 3 wings and 60 members
The Unforgiven 3 wings and 55 members
I know not all meet the 70 member squads HiTech is threating but anything above 32 should be considered gaming the game.
Quick question to the members of these mega squads: Why oh why do you need that many people? Is it your lack of skill? Did other kids pick on you in school and you didn't have many friends? Is anyone taking thier time to teach you while in said mega squad?
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Are all the members active or do many get recruited and no longer fly?
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I don't think all those wings are fully manned and online at the same time stroker. The most i've seen was claim jumpers filling over a page on the roster. To get that many guys you would have to spam recruit and take anybody regardless of skill.
The Few will only ever have 32 players because i'm a lazy C.O and we wouldn't be the few anymore ;).
The most we have ever had online together has been about 12, still when we do go after a base it will get done in a fair, well executed, skillful manner. It's hard when you recruit a very niche type of player on an invite only basis. Reputation alone has caused people to come to me.
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I have to agree with Bruv. I never see 12 members of the same squad on at anytime together. Limit all you like. The communication option is already there to join as many wings, countrymen, vulchers, pickers, toolshedders, or :D skilled pilots as you want. Now, for a squad like mine that never has more than 3 or 4 on at the same time, a new squad search command would assist in finding other similar small squadrons that we find in our respective time zones that are willing to help out (period) :salute
I find the paranoia in the forums a bit much. :noid
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Christ are you blind the CLAIM JUMPERS do recruit anyone who steps foot on Aces High and the horde bases. 1 CLAIM JUMPER Finds an enmy CV= 50 more come and auger into it trying to take it down.
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I have to agree with Bruv. I never see 12 members of the same squad on at anytime together. Limit all you like. The communication option is already there to join as many wings, countrymen, vulchers, pickers, toolshedders, or :D skilled pilots as you want. Now, for a squad like mine that never has more than 3 or 4 on at the same time, a new squad search command would assist in finding other similar small squadrons that we find in our respective time zones that are willing to help out (period) :salute
I find the paranoia in the forums a bit much. :noid
I've seen nearly 30 Bop's on at once, you aren't looking very hard
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Hey BJ where in Va. do you live?
Birds of Prey and Claim Jumpers, yup I have seen them around and never anywhere close even to 20. So, let's be real. You just named 2 squadrons, and without search options so that kind of proves my point. It is the folks that don't fly prime time and the small squads that need it. Evidently BOP and CJ's don't. :lol
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I don't agree.. If you know who you're looking for, you can ".f" them..
Write up a list and put a little star next to the names you frequently hang out with while logged on..
Or you can enter any arena and find out who's on by looking at the roster...
If you want to have several wings in your squad, this is what you'll have to deal with as a consequence...
What you guys want is like extra hot fudge on a hot fudge sundae that already has extra hot fudge, extra whipped cream and extra nutts...
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Hey BJ where in Va. do you live?
Birds of Prey and Claim Jumpers, yup I have seen them around and never anywhere close even to 20. So, let's be real. You just named 2 squadrons, and without search options so that kind of proves my point. It is the folks that don't fly prime time and the small squads that need it. Evidently BOP and CJ's don't. :lol
Used to see 25+ Bops every mon or tues night, (whichever their squad(s) night is)---mind you, that's prime time est (I live near Roanoke). Before HT lowered boom on squad size/put in arena caps you could see 50 plane Bop missions (right up until they swarmed you;) Ya gotta catch such squads on squad night--Claim Jumpers are a squad(s) I've never noticed before, as they weren't rook until now. But the bigger thing is massive squads (be they 'wings', or one huge borg cube)---are an absolute buzz-kill for game play, and the biggest reason a lot of folks leave this game. The slight changes HT has made in this area would lead one to conclude he doesn't like it either....it becomes more like Quake High...then you choices become..FLY with a horde and be safe, or die futilely in a massive wail of ho's trying to fight one
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See Rule #4
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Well said (minus the name calling) :uhoh I wouldn't take offense either for mentioning your squad for membership numbers. :salute Having said that, whenever flying for Rooks, I would be honored to help out in any operation that doesn't involve me spending 2+ hours to capture a single base.
The "slight" changes that I have noticed, have promoted teamwork. No more furball maps, so what's left to do but take bases? How do you take bases? ...... Horde?
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Mega squads vvvvv
(http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://mr11.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/zerg_rush.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFbeDNRkvVg4jJ_-cijRgRMpLnCzg)
:lol
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.
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A lot of reading, so little info.
It seems a lot of people worry about large Squads, saying the "quality" of pilots is in some way harmed by the idea of mass recruiting? If the large squads don't have quality, why complain? It would seem to me that this situation would make life simpler for those that fly carefully and consider RTB to be a good term, rather than a weakness or "cowardice".
As far as communications, we have a lot of options. I would like to see a Squad name search to locate by squadron name, and other options. I know that in the Claim Jumpers we have a standard text and vox channel, but would like to see the "squad" channel allow all in squadron, not just the wing. But, you must also remember that having more than about a dozen squad members on a channel causes a number of difficulties, mostly many different Ops going on at the same time, social chat by some while others are in a tight situation requiring coordination, and such.
Putting limits on Squad size can be circumvented, in any case. People would simply build closed missions between "different" squadrons, or devise other systems. As far as hoards, at least in the Claims Jumpers, even on squad nights we tend to have some on a main mission, some in small ops, and a number of roamers. Although I don't fly a lot of primetime, when I do I am usually either roaming or working with other squad members on wingman tactics, communications systems, or general social runs that hit and run so as to allow watermelon chat more than fighting.
One of the reasons that I joined the Claim Jumpers is that Racdogg understood that I do roam, even to other countries when the numbers are too unbalanced, and I am here partially for the "skilled game", but also for fun. I can't believe the whining that I hear about "unrealistic" play by people that die a dozen time a day, HO knowing they are simply rolling the dice, ram because "I'm low on fuel anyway", bomb and bail, etc.
This is a game, with all sorts, all skills, all reasons. When we complain about how others view or play the game, it seems we lose track of a basic fact: It is the number of people that fly here that allows for the game to exist, as it takes money to keep improving and just running this SIM. IMNSVHO, this is the best simulation online, and may be for the foreseeable future.
Fly your way, do your thing, enjoy your time, and allow others the same. I complain and squeak about things sometimes, but I always try to remember this is a game, and want all to be here next month.
Have fun all
Dashe
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all we are asking for is when going to lobby and doing an .sr search we would like to see ALL of our squadies. .I dont understand all the whining about the large squads.At most when I am on there arent alot on.When we do reach critical pig mass it is a just over slider size.I joined the pigs right after my 2 weeks were up and have stayed because of the friendship.I dont care about score or rank or OWNING someone.I am here for the fun and hanging around with my friends and having some fun.Like it was said before -mad skills an a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
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This is an age-old argument....we'd sooner reach agreement on abortion, or artificial turf :rolleyes:
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I believe the OP is asking for a "buddy list"
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I believe the OP is asking for a "buddy list"
That crossed my mind a bit ago....mebbe a list with 50 or 60 (or 107 :rofl) of your closest buddies....prolly wouldn't be too hard to implement, but if a lot of folks used that search feature at once, have a to think a hard drive would be churning heap much somewhere in Grapevine
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I am all for it HTC. A good idea. :aok
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What a bunch of crybabies....yeesh....
First of all compose a full list ...there are at least ten other active squads with 2+ "squads" AK's, WoT, Unforgiven, 173rd etc etc
Second of all dont be such idiots...in "real life" if you have 32 pilots you have 32 pilots...they dont disappear or take breaks or get deployed..or go to college...or play every other month etc. So the "having more then 32 guys on roster is gaming the game crapola" is idiocy. If hitech doesnt want the social and functional aspect of the game to be there he could limit vox to range and squad channel only...a very easy fix. The whole purpose of a squadron for me is the social context of the game and the teamwork. If a guy likes flying with you and wants to hang out why deny them a spot??? Bops have 6 wings mainly because some guys wanted to do specialized things...gv...buff etc...many of our wings have under 10 members and if you want to take the time im gonna guess 20+ dont play any given camp (feel free to do the research) We could easily shrink down to two wings...but some of the guys take pride in their wings so i dont push it. The majority of BoPs are AW vets who have known me through the years and looked us up...we are a veteran squad and function as one...but i would say we are mainly a social group that likes to hang out....thats my main attraction to this game....
If after 1-2 years you haven't mastered anything you wanted to master in this game you are pathetic or can't afford proper equipment (computer, video card, J/S, pedals)....seriously....no i mean it seriously....If you take this game as a game of skill the you are horribly confused as to what skill is...this is a decent cartoon plane game...if you think you can take your skillz and go fly a real plane or go help the president in "Independence Day" you are nuts.
So grow up and whine about something useful....why not have a "friends" list that you can look folks up when you get online to choose an arena??? Why make guys .f individual names over and over again if you are going to have multiple arenas? The guys who choose to fly solo and whine are the ones imho who are making this game like "quake". They want to put in no time or build relationships but want instant fun their way...Maybe Quake or Doom is a better game for you...
ZZZZZZZ...
There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing... Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"...
You guys horde because individually, you stink up the arena.
Tell ya what, I'll gather 32 members of the DFC, you gather 32 BOPs. We meet in the SEA arena. Care to guess how long it is before 32 BOPs are in the tower?
Bring an egg timer.
My regards,
Widewing
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HiTech better get busy. Just a quick look at the squads page:
Claim Jumpers: 8 wings and 107 members
Bops: 6 wings and 72 members
LCA: 5 wings and 69 members
POTW: 3 wings and 67 members
Rolling Thunder 3 wings and 62 members
71st 3 wings and 60 members
The Unforgiven 3 wings and 55 members
I know not all meet the 70 member squads HiTech is threating but anything above 32 should be considered gaming the game.
Quick question to the members of these mega squads: Why oh why do you need that many people? Is it your lack of skill? Did other kids pick on you in school and you didn't have many friends? Is anyone taking thier time to teach you while in said mega squad?
Frankly, I'd be willing to take 7 hand picked CJs and fight them 7v1.
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ZZZZZZZ...
There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing... Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"...
You guys horde because individually, you stink up the arena.
Tell ya what, I'll gather 32 members of the DFC, you gather 32 BOPs. We meet in the SEA arena. Care to guess how long it is before 32 BOPs are in the tower?
Bring an egg timer.
My regards,
Widewing
Typical "Quake" player mentality....lets line up 32 and shoot at each other til one is left..moronic. Hey goober...guess what...been there..done that...doesn't really work....noone ever fields even 10 guys and the arguments afterwards are nuts...
Also who are you???? If youare some sort of skill dude i have never run into you online unless you have some shade you fly under. There is no squad called DFC (sweetheart Flaming Club maybe???) :devil
So try this...form a squad and THEN enter into a discussion involving guys who actually play the game as it is designed and not 1/16th of it and claim that makes them uber. Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
Good grief at least be in a squad before you decide to issue a squad challenge...what a tool...
It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them.
Now one....more...time...really.. .slowly...for the training impaired...this discussion was about why not have the equivalent of a "friends" list to help folks find people they want to fly with.....
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Typical "Quake" player mentality....lets line up 32 and shoot at each other til one is left..moronic. Hey goober...guess what...been there..done that...doesn't really work....noone ever fields even 10 guys and the arguments afterwards are nuts...
Also who are you???? If youare some sort of skill dude i have never run into you online unless you have some shade you fly under. There is no squad called DFC (sweetheart Flaming Club maybe???) :devil
So try this...form a squad and THEN enter into a discussion involving guys who actually play the game as it is designed and not 1/16th of it and claim that makes them uber. Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
Good grief at least be in a squad before you decide to issue a squad challenge...what a tool...
It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them.
Now one....more...time...really.. .slowly...for the training impaired...this discussion was about why not have the equivalent of a "friends" list to help folks find people they want to fly with.....
Dog Fighters Club.
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Dog Fighters Club.
Again...no such thing...at least in the AH squad list....widewing is not a member of any active squad by search results....
So I guess DFC is another SAPP sort of thing which has more then 32 members but I guess they don't believe they are gaming the game because they dont register as a squad...
So when he issues a squad challenge from the "DFC" of which there is no squad i guess that means he wants to hand pick 32 furballers and go against 32 BoPs...again I'm sure relieved that this guy is an AH trainer...unless that training corp tag is like the DFC tag which is like the SAPP tag which is like "oh my gosh I wanna have a tag club" :rock :cry :t
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Again...no such thing...at least in the AH squad list....widewing is not a member of any active squad by search results....
So I guess DFC is another SAPP sort of thing which has more then 32 members but I guess they don't believe they are gaming the game because they dont register as a squad...
So when he issues a squad challenge from the "DFC" of which there is no squad i guess that means he wants to hand pick 32 furballers and go against 32 BoPs...again I'm sure relieved that this guy is an AH trainer...unless that training corp tag is like the DFC tag which is like the SAPP tag which is like "oh my gosh I wanna have a tag club" :rock :cry :t
Hence "Club". It's a group, not a squad.
He means take 32 members from their club. Thats basically like taking 32 SAPP members vs 32 BoP members, yes.
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So again it makes no sense...unless he wanted me to hand pick 32 fiters from CJs, JJs, BoPs, and all other multiwing squads to oppose him.....he is suggesting a scenario in which he can field a superior team by selecting from essentially a no boundary pool to illogically prove that that means BoPs skill level is somehow lower then another similar squad.
Thanks for helping me confirm my suspicions :noid :aok
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Falcon sounds less and less competent each time I read a post of his.
Widewing has an understanding of this game leaps and bounds beyond mine and many others I'd say.
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Falcon sounds less and less competent each time I read a post of his.
Widewing has an understanding of this game leaps and bounds beyond mine and many others I'd say.
Once again I am being anklehumped by a proud pothead....roll another doob and hope the law doesn't get ya this time....no AH in jail.... :rofl :t
And to have a grasp of the game that is ;eaps above yours is not necessarily a compliment to widewing.... :D
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Once again I am being anklehumped by a proud pothead....roll another doob and hope the law doesn't get ya this time....no AH in jail.... :rofl :t
And to have a grasp of the game that is ;eaps above yours is not necessarily a compliment to widewing.... :D
Oh no! Your making me so very paranoid! I better fall in line and jump in a horde of conformity quick!
I doubt you'll accept but perhaps you'd like to meet in the DA to see my grasp of the game. Win or lose it would be worth the time. Ask J0ker.
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Typical "Quake" player mentality....lets line up 32 and shoot at each other til one is left..moronic. Hey goober...guess what...been there..done that...doesn't really work....noone ever fields even 10 guys and the arguments afterwards are nuts...
Also who are you???? If youare some sort of skill dude i have never run into you online unless you have some shade you fly under. There is no squad called DFC (sweetheart Flaming Club maybe???) :devil
So try this...form a squad and THEN enter into a discussion involving guys who actually play the game as it is designed and not 1/16th of it and claim that makes them uber. Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
Good grief at least be in a squad before you decide to issue a squad challenge...what a tool...
It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them.
Now one....more...time...really.. .slowly...for the training impaired...this discussion was about why not have the equivalent of a "friends" list to help folks find people they want to fly with.....
Come on Falconbluster, Take the challenge!
I promise you, there won't be just one left... The 32 thoroughly bored DFC members will start tearing each other up after the 3 minute gun-warming exercise called the BOPS.
Brother, are you full of baloney. We have lots of pilots, veterans and new players who come to the TA and discover that hiding in a crowd is okay for a wildebeest, but not for them.
The Trainers Corp and our friends in the DFC are dedicated to producing top tier pilots, consisting of anyone who desires to be a solid pilot and improve game play. We improve game play by teaching players that you don't have to hide in the mob. You can meet an enemy head to head and win. Even if you don't, you at least fought the good fight. All the while being a gentleman and someone who values sportsmanship and camaraderie among players above the silliness of the mob mentality; pushed by those prefer to win at any cost. At any cost to the community and game play in general.
If the truth causes you pain, just say ouch. You won't die.
Ragging on the Training Corps only reinforces the argument that your style of play is counter-productive to the community as a whole.
Shame on you. How much time have you dedicated to new player or vets looking to improve? You give nothing and expect people to embrace your nonsense... Volunteer for something. Be useful. You're a vet. You can be a positive influence. I'm sure there are players in the BOPs who look to you for leadership. Try offering something positive, rather than negative.
My regards,
Widewing
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Come on Falconbluster, Take the challenge!
I promise you, there won't be just one left... The 32 thoroughly bored DFC members will start tearing each other up after the 3 minute gun-warming exercise called the BOPS.
Brother, are you full of baloney. We have lots of pilots, veterans and new players who come to the TA and discover that hiding in a crowd is okay for a wildebeest, but not for them.
The Trainers Corp and our friends in the DFC are dedicated to producing top tier pilots, consisting of anyone who desires to be a solid pilot and improve game play. We improve game play by teaching players that you don't have to hide in the mob. You can meet an enemy head to head and win. Even if you don't, you at least fought the good fight. All the while being a gentleman and someone who values sportsmanship and camaraderie among players above the silliness of the mob mentality; pushed by those prefer to win at any cost. At any cost to the community and game play in general.
If the truth causes you pain, just say ouch. You won't die.
Ragging on the Training Corps only reinforces the argument that your style of play is counter-productive to the community as a whole.
Shame on you. How much time have you dedicated to new player or vets looking to improve? You give nothing and expect people to embrace your nonsense... Volunteer for something. Be useful. You're a vet. You can be a positive influence. I'm sure there are players in the BOPs who look to you for leadership. Try offering something positive, rather than negative.
My regards,
Widewing
You are again spewing nonsense...I have never heard of the DFC...I have honestly never heard of you....
I have kept more guys active in this game then you have ever done and to boot my guys have fun. BoPs grew to 6 wings during the time that bish were getting ganged nightly for almost a year. I posted on the bbs during that period of time and was basically called a whiner and that bish were getting their due because they used to dominate etc. I was essentially told by the "vets" to figure it out so we did. Guys who joined our missions would often request to join our squad. MAW was active then and BoPs were in many ways an anti-maw squad to combat their numbers.
Many of my guys have left BoPs over time and started their own squads or joined established "furball" squads and they do it with my blessing. Dustoffs, Fly Circus and Jokers have many ex-bops on their rosters. Our squad ch is open to any who want to tune and we host many smaller squads who like the chatter. We conduct weekly training and I would be happy to have most active BoPs as wingmen. We don't roll bases like we used to because thanks to hitech and his GOOD changes (40% both country win, larger maps) there isn't the need to because persistent ganging is not as much an issue as it once was. We dont post missions much anymore so we havent recruited much...
I HAVE dueled plenty in the DA in the past and if you wish to go there shoot me a PM next time you are on...I'll pick the plane since you are superior skills by your assessment. You assume alot about our skill level and gameplay and yet you seem to play very little in the MA according to your last few tours..though you seem to kill mainly gvs for a "furballer".
If you dont think the "furballers" and their "pick" squads dont do as much or more to discourage folks then you need to take off your blinders. All that said they pay the same amount i do and i dont want to do anything to discourage their idea of fun. I just haven't encountered many who can take me 1 v 1 in the MA. In fact the reason i flew the la7 so much for a while was because i got tired of being picked by 190-d9s and f4u-1cs and ponies who would run when you finally got co-alt. The MA is a much different beast then the DA or TA. It is much more a chess game then the Quake-like DA.
Maybe you could name some members of this DFC...my guys are out in the open for anyone to see. Then i might be able to see who the "competition" really is.
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Skills :rofl
You guys take this stuff WAY too serious.
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Quick question to the members of these mega squads: Why oh why do you need that many people? Is it your lack of skill? Did other kids pick on you in school and you didn't have many friends? Is anyone taking thier time to teach you while in said mega squad?
Ooh, this is where I jump in.
Why do we have that many people? Perhaps unlike you, we actually develop friendships. 71 RAF is one of those units mentioned, but I don't think we've ever fielded more than 10 people at any given time. I came to 71 RAF because Overlag, a guy I've been flying with for at least a year, was recruited by them, and when my squad was disbanded, I figured flying is more fun with friends. So before you go making blanket statements, please, think. You will NEVER see 71 RAF hording. You will NEVER see 71 RAF gangbanging the crap out of a base. And there are times when you WILL see different elements of 71 RAF flying against each other, for FUN. Because THAT is why we have such a large unit. We're here to have fun, and we have fun flying together.
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The Trainers Corp and our friends in the DFC are dedicated to producing top tier pilots, consisting of anyone who desires to be a solid pilot and improve game play.
Serious question: As a member of the training corps, how much time do you spend training on:
Improving bombing accuracy
Defensive gunnery from bombers
How the Strat system works
How to pork an airfield
Object identification
Deacking
Relative strengths/weaknesses of ground vehicles
Ground vehicle combat tactics
Gunning from an Ostwind/Wirbelwind/M-16/field guns vs. aircraft
Ranging from ships guns / shore batteries
Proper divebombing technique
Proper escort technique
Breaking a cap
How to capture a base
If I were a new guy who went to the TA to learn how to do these things better, would I be taught, or kicked to the curb? Because it sure sounds like all you are willing to do is teach people to DA in a 1 v 1 situation, which seems rather limited and limiting given the scope of gameplay available. A little clarification, if you would be so kind.
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Falcnwng....i like ya...but Widewing's got ya there. He's a trainer and a great stick...he's helped a many of players out
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Serious question: As a member of the training corps, how much time do you spend training on:
Improving bombing accuracy
Defensive gunnery from bombers
How the Strat system works
How to pork an airfield
Object identification
Deacking
Relative strengths/weaknesses of ground vehicles
Ground vehicle combat tactics
Gunning from an Ostwind/Wirbelwind/M-16/field guns vs. aircraft
Ranging from ships guns / shore batteries
Proper divebombing technique
Proper escort technique
Breaking a cap
How to capture a base
If I were a new guy who went to the TA to learn how to do these things better, would I be taught, or kicked to the curb? Because it sure sounds like all you are willing to do is teach people to DA in a 1 v 1 situation, which seems rather limited and limiting given the scope of gameplay available. A little clarification, if you would be so kind.
Every item and more is covered if individually asked for. Most of those items can be fully covered in a short amount of time. BFM or general flight help is what is actually requested more the 95% of the time. It takes more than a 1/2 hour lesson to teach air combat competence. Actually more often than not, the person that asked for help is the one who cuts the session short when they reach the point of information overload. And that is just trying to cover merging and a few basic maneuvers along with the charateristics and uses.
And when we are not doing that, we are gathering all sorts of information on game mechanics and data, so that we are working with and deseminating current information. And also touch base with HTC on occation when we find something that might be in error. And when we're not doing that, we're answering questions and giving information out on the bbs, or ahwiki, or netaces. And after that, we may have time to log a few hours in an MA during a tour so some jerk-off who thinks they're cod's gift to AH, can claim they've help more people than one of us ever will.
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You are again spewing nonsense...I have never heard of the DFC...I have honestly never heard of you....
I have kept more guys active in this game then you have ever done and to boot my guys have fun.
That just goes to show how myopic and foolish your view on the scope of AH really is (reasoning in prior post). The only nonsense I see being spewed is coming from you.
The guys who choose to fly solo and whine are the ones imho who are making this game like "quake". They want to put in no time or build relationships but want instant fun their way...Maybe Quake or Doom is a better game for you...
So I guess DFC is another SAPP sort of thing which has more then 32 members but I guess they don't believe they are gaming the game because they dont register as a squad...
Well, which way is it? You can't have it both ways. You can't stereotype that lone wolfs are a bunch of anti-social pukes, and then scoff when you are yet again shown to be completely clueless when the fact is brought up that your alledged "quake" players actually are social enough to have a club. But I'll answer your question anyways. We are friends with common interests, who are just as likely to be mixing it up against each other as anyone else in the MA. Grouping up en-mass in the MA would be the antithesis of the clubs ideals.
Not to mention you are the only person to talk about "gaming the game" in this thread, and the only person jumping the thread calling other posters "idiots". Quite frankly I am regretting sending a PM quite awhile back urging you to edit your personal attacks out of a post before you would get banned. Because quite frankly from the crap I see coming out of your keyboard, that result doesn't sound like too bad of an idea to me at this point.
I don't know what is so difficult to understand about this thread topic in general.
"Dear HiTech,
My quart has 128 ounces in it. Your game mechanics is inconvencing my quart because it only allows for 32 ounces in a quart. So what I'd really like you to do is change the game to fit my definition of a quart, and just ignore that my definition of a quart is no where near the standard accepted definition."
This is just as ridiculous. A squadron is 12-24 planes. HiTech allows for 32. I think that addresses the fact that AH is a hobby and not a military organization, therefore having a cap higher than 24 should allow for mustering a squad level force once in awhile.
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Serious question: As a member of the training corps, how much time do you spend training on:
Improving bombing accuracy
Defensive gunnery from bombers
How the Strat system works
How to pork an airfield
Object identification
Deacking
Relative strengths/weaknesses of ground vehicles
Ground vehicle combat tactics
Gunning from an Ostwind/Wirbelwind/M-16/field guns vs. aircraft
Ranging from ships guns / shore batteries
Proper divebombing technique
Proper escort technique
Breaking a cap
How to capture a base
If I were a new guy who went to the TA to learn how to do these things better, would I be taught, or kicked to the curb? Because it sure sounds like all you are willing to do is teach people to DA in a 1 v 1 situation, which seems rather limited and limiting given the scope of gameplay available. A little clarification, if you would be so kind.
First, Aces High is first and foremost, a flying game. The Trainer Corps places its emphasis on that.
Nonetheless, trainers have on many occasions been asked to demonstrate basic vehicle operation and gunnery. They do so.
We hold wingman clinics, 3v1 clinics, divebombing clinics, and the like. Rolex holds clinics for those interested in flying bombers as well as his Basic ACM course. We hold CV ops clinics, we teach formation structure and integrity. Fuzeman has written the definitive piece on using 8" guns against ship and shore targets. Check out our website from the link on the Aces High home page. We teach Situational Awareness. We stress individual skills. Individual skills are what makes up the sum of unit of people. As I write this, there is a structured Training Academy under development.
I prefer to teach the Boyd OODA Loop. Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. This simple principle is applicable to anything you may do in AH2, fighters, bombers or vehicles.
Observation: Collection of data by means of the senses.
Orientation: Analysis and synthesis of data to form one's current mental perspective.
Decision: Determination of a course of action based on one's current mental perspective.
Action: Actual playing-out of decisions.
Everyone has an OODA Loop whether or not they realize it. The one who complete his Loop first, usually wins, as the other guy is still reacting to the changing circumstances The goal is to get "inside" the other guy's Loop. This forces them to react rather than to act. This applies not only to fighters (for whom Boyd developed the methodology), but to tanks and bombers as well. Do a Google search on Col. John Boyd.
If asked, we will answer questions about the items you mention that I have not addressed in this post. However, GVs are something we do not stress, nor will they be part of the Training Academy. Again, this is primarily a flying game. GVs are ancillary to that.
If someone contacts the Trainer Corps, or asks a trainer for help with any aspect of the game, they will get help. No one is turned away because of topic.
Does that cover everything?
My regards,
Widewing
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I HAVE dueled plenty in the DA in the past and if you wish to go there shoot me a PM next time you are on...I'll pick the plane since you are superior skills by your assessment. You assume alot about our skill level and gameplay and yet you seem to play very little in the MA according to your last few tours..though you seem to kill mainly gvs for a "furballer".
I've been playing for about 9 years...DFC by-laws don't allow us to discuss the Roster or club business. But, if I could post it, you'd soil your Levis. Just check out the avatars and sigfiles... Most members make mention in that manner.
As to dueling... Stop by the TA some evening. We can go to a remote field and you can give it your best shot. I prefer the TA as damage is turned off and I hate waiting for the other guy to re-plane and fly back. You get whacked, we separate 4k to 6k and remerge. Big time saver and it allows for chatting. It's more personal, you get to know each other. I'll be leading a 3v1 clinic later in February. I'll post the date and time on the training forum. Stop by for that one and bring squadies. It's an eye-opener and a great SA exercise. As to my skill level, I'll leave that to those who have dueled with me to define.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing? Widewing who?
Trainer Corps? Whats that?
Aces High? NEVER heard of it.
Pfft! Stupid Quakers with your oatmeal! ACM is STOOOOPID.
Falcon, ignoring the fact that WW contributes more to this community than you take from it (which is saying a lot), I'll pay for a month of your sub if you can best him in the DA.
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You are again spewing nonsense...I have never heard of the DFC...I have honestly never heard of you....
(self aggrandizing filler removed due to time constraints)
Maybe you could name some members of this DFC...my guys are out in the open for anyone to see. Then i might be able to see who the "competition" really is.
Why don't you just man up and drop the act already?
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What's really great about this game is that so many different people can do so many different things.
Check it out, if you want a big "mega squad" you can form one. If you like Solo, you can do that as well. How about 9 person squads, great, have at it.
What many of you fail to grasp is you are arguing over opinions. There is not one fact to substantiate Mega Squads cause quake style play, or the reverse. There are instances where you might see it, not like it, but that does not make it a fact, it makes it your opinion, and that is worth exactly nothing to anyone but yourself. Thanks for sharing, move on.
Get over yourselves and quit playing nanny and demanding others play the way you want them too. Wish list, you made a wish, what are you all arguing over?
I cannot believe this world as devolved into a population that insists it is someone elses job to create artificial limits so their definition of fair is met.
Many times people confuse "I can't do it" with "it can't be done". Same goes for not knowing about something. Doesn't make it less real, or might explain alot if you don't know about something. Heck, even I know about the DFC and I don't even have a worthwhile Rank!
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I happen to be a member of a "Megasquad", SAPP and DFC, I'm also a former trainer here so I think I can comment on all aspects of this "argument".
1) speaking for 71 Squadron, while we have numbers we aren't a "horde". We rarely fly in large groups but even then we act with a measure of respect and consideration for good game play. While we have a high % of members who would be considered excellent sticks we value integrity and "good citizenship" above all else. More then one "good stick" has been shown the door for failing to measure up...as a result 71 squadron is one of the more universally respected squads in the game.
2) I'm relatively new to SAPP (and the twin eggbeater) but it is a "club" clearly anchored by both a love of the 38 and a standard of conduct. Like 71 Squadron you don't have to be "good" but you do have to be quality citizen of the game.
3) I've been a member of DFC for awhile now. It's not my place to be a spokesperson for the group but I'll make the following comments. By and large most of the members are accomplished "dogfighters", however not all are. What "we" have is a sense of the history of the game and a strong value for fair play. A DFC member is someone who values the fight more then the result, while we're all very competitive none of us will put winning above all else. By taking the measure of another we take measure of our selfs as well, DFC members realize that and act accordingly.
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Typical "Quake" player mentality....lets line up 32 and shoot at each other til one is left..moronic. Hey goober...guess what...been there..done that...doesn't really work....noone ever fields even 10 guys and the arguments afterwards are nuts...
Also who are you???? If youare some sort of skill dude i have never run into you online unless you have some shade you fly under. There is no squad called DFC (sweetheart Flaming Club maybe???) :devil
So try this...form a squad and THEN enter into a discussion involving guys who actually play the game as it is designed and not 1/16th of it and claim that makes them uber. Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
Good grief at least be in a squad before you decide to issue a squad challenge...what a tool...
It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them.
Now one....more...time...really.. .slowly...for the training impaired...this discussion was about why not have the equivalent of a "friends" list to help folks find people they want to fly with.....
LOL,
I always get a kick out of noodles like you calling guys like WW a tool.
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Typical "Quake" player mentality....lets line up 32 and shoot at each other til one is left..moronic. Hey goober...guess what...been there..done that...doesn't really work....noone ever fields even 10 guys and the arguments afterwards are nuts...
Also who are you???? If youare some sort of skill dude i have never run into you online unless you have some shade you fly under. There is no squad called DFC (sweetheart Flaming Club maybe???) :devil
So try this...form a squad and THEN enter into a discussion involving guys who actually play the game as it is designed and not 1/16th of it and claim that makes them uber. Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
Good grief at least be in a squad before you decide to issue a squad challenge...what a tool...
It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them.
Now one....more...time...really.. .slowly...for the training impaired...this discussion was about why not have the equivalent of a "friends" list to help folks find people they want to fly with.....
You realize you look like (and most likely are) a complete fool..
Don't know who widewing is...Have no clue what DFC is(obviously too inept to think about looking at your avatar, WideWing).
You should do your homework before tearing into people like this.... Only makes you look like a fool...
I think everyone has pretty much come to that conclusion anyhow.. :rofl
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Skills :rofl
So everyone should just suck, we should be happy to wallow in mediocrity?
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Maybe you could name some members of this DFC...my guys are out in the open for anyone to see. Then i might be able to see who the "competition" really is.
I would If I could ... but since Falconwing says we don't exist ... I can't :huh
(I would never Hijack the SEA arena and hold a Furball fest ) ...
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So everyone should just suck, we should be happy to wallow in mediocrity?
No, not at all, but if someone chooses to treat this game as a "game" and not take it as seriously as some others might, they shouldn't be chastised and/or called derogatory names.(skilless etc.)
And if someone is not happy wallowing in mediocrity, then there are avenues to take(if you choose) to improve your game and your self worth in the game.
Ones level of immersion in this game should not be looked down upon by those who choose to perfect the finer points of their game.
I think that people who are constantly cutting down and name calling other players (both in game and on BBs) are FAR more detrimental to this game than a 500 person squad would ever be.
I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played.
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You're downplaying it. 500 player "squads" would be beyond problematic. For one thing, there would be nowhere near as much competition. AH thrives on this. It would be just one big slum, one big uncorelated soup of blandness.
"I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played."
False dichotomy. A red herring for this debate. There's nothing condescending in pointing out that someone is not being a good chess mate when he shakes the table with the chessboard on it or keeps asking for rewinds on the moves anytime the game doesn't play out his way. Which is what avoiding air combat is. Aces High DEPENDS on air combat. Otherwise it's "Air Tourism" or just "Bomb droppers High". You can't call a vacuum "dense" anymore than you can pretend someone who avoids the whole point of a game is providing quality gameplay.
Whether (by your account anyway) furballers are potty mouths or not has nothing to do with quality of air combat, the pillar of gameplay in AH. You're trying to pass two separate things as the same. You're fudging for an excuse to put "social" pleasures over what the game's about. The game is about air combat with friends. Those two things together, not just either one on its own. You might not have the passion for history and the planes themselves, or warfare, or anything other than just having a pass-time, any pass-time, to share with friends, but that doesn't mean the pass-time should be diluted for everyone else.
If "social" means more to you than air combat and blowing poop up with a couple of close friends competing with you for who has the most fun, go play second life or something. Or go out. Aces High is about air combat. Of course, you knew that, but you're not above spinning arguments for your agenda, as petty as it might be. Whether air combat is diluted to ppm's or 100-proof makes no difference to you. So why ruin it for everyone else who does have a stake with it?
No, not at all, but if someone chooses to treat this game as a "game" and not take it as seriously as some others might, they shouldn't be chastised and/or called derogatory names.(skilless etc.)
And you don't need to take this game seriously to prefer quality gameplay or get a kick out of the discipline in playing for score (without even "gaming" the game/score system). I certainly don't. But I am a sucker for quality over mere quantity. In fact I usualy refuse either when I can have both.. Which is what having 15 32-player squads rather than 1 500 player squad would be.
If we're taking mere opinion for standard (e.g. that 500 player squads are no problem), then I have to say that your 100 man squads are not the type of friendship AH squads are meant to be, and bogus at worst. There's no way you're really true friends with every single one of those other 99 players. There's no way having 100 player limits on squads, instead of 32 or 16, is better for the game.
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I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played.
EW awaits your arrival. :aok
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16 sounds good. :aok
What the hell am I going to do with all this beer, then?
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Beer/100_0877.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Beer/MORE%20BEER/100_1317.jpg)
Oh wait, I think I've figured it out.............
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What the hell am I going to do with all this beer, then?
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Beer/100_0877.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Beer/MORE%20BEER/100_1317.jpg)
Oh wait, I think I've figured it out.............
Would you like my address..I'll pay shipping. :D
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Just come pick it up.
Philly is not that far. :D
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You're downplaying it. 500 player "squads" would be beyond problematic. For one thing, there would be nowhere near as much competition. AH thrives on this. It would be just one big slum, one big uncorelated soup of blandness.False dichotomy. A red herring for this debate. There's nothing condescending in pointing out that someone is not being a good chess mate when he shakes the table with the chessboard on it or keeps asking for rewinds on the moves anytime the game doesn't play out his way. Which is what avoiding air combat is. Aces High DEPENDS on air combat. Otherwise it's "Air Tourism" or just "Bomb droppers High". You can't call a vacuum "dense" anymore than you can pretend someone who avoids the whole point of a game is providing quality gameplay.
Whether (by your account anyway) furballers are potty mouths or not has nothing to do with quality of air combat, the pillar of gameplay in AH. You're trying to pass two separate things as the same. You're fudging for an excuse to put "social" pleasures over what the game's about. The game is about air combat with friends. Those two things together, not just either one on its own. You might not have the passion for history and the planes themselves, or warfare, or anything other than just having a pass-time, any pass-time, to share with friends, but that doesn't mean the pass-time should be diluted for everyone else.
If "social" means more to you than air combat and blowing poop up with a couple of close friends competing with you for who has the most fun, go play second life or something. Or go out. Aces High is about air combat. Of course, you knew that, but you're not above spinning arguments for your agenda, as petty as it might be. Whether air combat is diluted to ppm's or 100-proof makes no difference to you. So why ruin it for everyone else who does have a stake with it?
And you don't need to take this game seriously to prefer quality gameplay or get a kick out of the discipline in playing for score (without even "gaming" the game/score system). I certainly don't. But I am a sucker for quality over mere quantity. In fact I usualy refuse either when I can have both.. Which is what having 15 32-player squads rather than 1 500 player squad would be.
If we're taking mere opinion for standard (e.g. that 500 player squads are no problem), then I have to say that your 100 man squads are not the type of friendship AH squads are meant to be, and bogus at worst. There's no way you're really true friends with every single one of those other 99 players. There's no way having 100 player limits on squads, instead of 32 or 16, is better for the game.
1st off, you have to know I was exagerating the 500 member squad thing. Right?
Secondly, if I was playing chess in a room filled with 3 or 4 hundered other chess players and my opponent was not being a "good chess mate", I would look elsewhere in the room for another player.
Its a big room , find a spot to have fun and leave the "bad players" to have fun with like minded players.
With the size of most of the maps in here, I find it hard to believe that guys can't find a fight.
And squad size? My squad night is on Mondays, try counting the amount of players we field.
I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.
If you don't like large groups of people flying around together, take 2 or 3 of your "skilled" buddies and shoot the 32+ "skilless tards" down.
Theres your fight, whats the problem? I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.
I got into this game because I really love WW2 warbirds. But this game is more than that, there are GVs, PT boats, bombers, troops to capture bases etc. Even though I play this game for the planes, I realize that other people have a different "take" on the game than I do.
So be it.
Its a big room.
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EW awaits your arrival. :aok
Lmao!
It doesn't have to "await" me.
I have arrived!
I spent alot of time there last tour, and actually had alot of fun busting up "missions" and surprizing milkers.
And despite the amount of that type of play in there, I found most of the guys were pretty nice guys and we all had alot of fun.
The same can be said for the Mw arena. Only slightly less of the "dreaded" milkers etc.
Its all fun. If you let it be fun.
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I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.
That's exactly what we/they don't want.
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Yes, Boner, you were exagerating. Part of the point is that there's a sweet spot to squad sizes. 1 isn't it, 500 isn't it either, and IMO 16 is a little short, and more than 32 is probably too much.
Going to look for another player hints at not everyone being a good match. Of course, a better match is better than a mere good match, so it's no wonder that you'd go for the best few matches instead of picking randomly out of a pool of 100 merely good matches. "100" is just a number for the sake of the argument, in this previous sentence.
Finding a fight isn't hard? Sorry, but you already argued that the quality of the fight didn't matter to you. You said that skills mean nothing. So any fight is good for you, and so who are you to say which fights are good and which are bad? Seriously - Yes, it's more hard than easy to find a good fight nowadays. Random reason out of the many reasons for this? Ok: ganging. It doesn't take much for a good fight to be spoiled... 2:1 is fine.. Most players can manage to have fun (regardless of who kills who) in those, but 3:1 already cuts out the vast majority of players, as far as having fun is concerned. And if you hadn't noticed.. that's what the game is more than half the time. Why? Because of the perpetuated rumor that "skills" and "gameplay quality" don't matter. This mindset makes this the norm:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3454/3248097535_c4e5869790.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/3248924140_1b97e1d346.jpg?v=0)
There was nothing else on the map that time and for a couple of hours on, and at least half the other times I and others log on.
And the DA? Even worse:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3420/3248097673_4c4ef5c8a8.jpg?v=0)
It's not just that this is happening at least half the time I or others like me (we're at least as many as the average "megasquad") that some of us are losing interest despite as much friendship as you justify your own squads with, and despite a passion and/or addiction to the whole WWII/pilot/warbird/dogfighting thing, even after (often enough) about a decade of this.. It's also that there's no good excuse for this. There's no excuse for letting gameplay suck so bad merely because it's just a game. There's no excuse for botching a game of chess by screwing with the rules till the game takes zero reflection or effort, or doing this with anything.
I don't care about your squad. Not a rat's arse.. I care about the game in general. I see it going downhill. Shows up this thread and the argument that oversized squads are no biggie, which is wrong and which I point out as such. I'm not stopping you (nor even am interested in meddling in your business) from having 5 wing squads where you don't even know the other players by merely pointing it out. I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.
.. Or pointing out there's no sense in calling yourself a squad or asking for larger squad limits if you don't even use them!
I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.
If you don't like large groups of people flying around together, take 2 or 3 of your "skilled" buddies and shoot the 32+ "skilless tards" down.
Theres your fight, whats the problem? I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.
Ha! You don't know how accurate that is! Grats on getting this right by merely guessing thru the mud in your eyes that is the smug attitude... "me and my ilk" .. LOL
Skilless targets are no fun. This game is less well because of the path of least resistance being "skillless".. Are you really pretending that there's something wrong with trying to make others better players? Or that "skill" isn't some buzz word to make a strawman out of the simple fact that playing better makes games more enjoyable? There's nothing elitist about playing well or tardly about not being very good at a game. There is something wrong with opposing improvements in players' ability or encouraging players to stay crappy when they could be good.
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Wow!
Is that really All you have to say on the subject?
You either don't read very well , or just like twisting things in your favor.
More likely, we are both guilty in that respect.
So, I will leave you with this thought. What if the multi-wing squads were forced to disband?
What is to stop this now nameless group of skilless vagabonds from flying together anyway?
And while I have seen obscenely large missions like the ones you have pictured above, I think they are the exception, not the norm.
And BTW, which multi-wing squad was that in those screenies?
And if squads were limited to say 16 people, whos to say that mega hordes won't occasionally form as they do now?
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Ok my turn. I, Like Serenity, am a member of 71 squadron, named on this Thread as a massive squad full of 'Non skilled' people. I would like to issue the same challange as Widewing did. We've done it before, 10v10. I remember I was picked as part of a squad fight against Precission. It was, with no offence ment here, a turkey shoot. 3 times in a row we went 7-0.
If we have a big squad night, yes, we will 'Gang', but you'd better eb prepared to be ganged by a load of SBD's or Hurri 1's or something stupid. 71 is all about having fun, no set rules, but if your not a nice guy, your out. Simple as. Being in a squad like that will naturally increase your skill. If you dont like what 71 stands for and how we go about doing it, theres the door.
To those people who say we have no skill as well. 'If you had any, why need such a large squad', As Serenity said, we are that size for friendship, and also as a more practical reason, half our members are from US, a quarter for UK, and the rest from mad places like Germany, finland, Croatia, etc. Its Impossible to get everyone on at one time. As for skill. Im sure Humble's skill is legendary. He lands 10 kills in a SBD for goodness sake! Then we have our CO, Redtop. Again, an amazing fighter, I would hate to get in his sights. BatfinkV in a mossie is lethal. Countless others have more skill than the majority of people I have met in the MA. I have known 5 members of 71 to attack a heavily defended air base, supress it and capture it. Anyone want to say that that doesn't take skill? And it WASN'T a vultch fest before thats thrown in, we let people up, its more fun if they can fight back.
Anymore questions about 71's reputation?
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Wow!
Is that really All you have to say on the subject?
You either don't read very well , or just like twisting things in your favor.
More likely, we are both guilty in that respect.
So, I will leave you with this thought. What if the multi-wing squads were forced to disband?
What is to stop this now nameless group of skilless vagabonds from flying together anyway?
And while I have seen obscenely large missions like the ones you have pictured above, I think they are the exception, not the norm.
And BTW, which multi-wing squad was that in those screenies?
And if squads were limited to say 16 people, whos to say that mega hordes won't occasionally form as they do now?
Those weren't missions. Not a multi-wing squad either. That's not the point.
Nothing stops skilless vagabons (what this is supposed to imply is not clear at all) from flying together anyway, and that's not the point.
Merely saying that I don't have a point or am twisting the facts is a cop out. Argue it specificaly. Show inconsistencies. Give examples or supporting evidence for your refutal.
Mega hordes and squad sizes aren't directly linked but they aren't independent of each other either. You're amalgamating two different things again.
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Those weren't missions. Not a multi-wing squad either. That's not the point. Then what IS the point of the screenies?
Nothing stops skilless vagabons (what this is supposed to imply is not clear at all) from flying together anyway, and that's not the point. Then what is the point? 2 many people flying together?, or 2 many people flying together and having a name for that group of people?
Merely saying that I don't have a point or am twisting the facts is a cop out. Argue it specificaly. Show inconsistencies. Give examples or supporting evidence for your refutal. I have already tried to do that, and taking my limited intellect into account, I'm afraid thats the best you're gonna get outta me.
Mega hordes and squad sizes aren't directly linked but they aren't independent of each other either.Well then please enlighten me on the correlation between the 2. You're amalgamating two different things again. Look, I only amalgamated ONE thing, and that was a long time ago! I got hairy palms and almost went blind.
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You basicaly want me to repeat what I wrote in the previous post? Are you really not going to reply to this future post with one more request for me to repeat it?
I'll do it later.
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Sooooo...there is a secret club with secret charter and secret numbers that secret people belong too....but they are waaaay better then anyone else...got it :devil
And yes widewing seems foolish imho....he started with a post that insulted BoPs and he is welcome to apologize and start again...I have played many years longer then him...i just choose to enjoy the whole game as a game and not as a life decision. I'm sure if I was motivated i could memorize optimal turn speeds and radiuses for all the planes and be uber too. The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey. If people who read ww2 aviation history really thinks we come even close to what actually occurred by DA standards then I can't help you. The MA for me is the closest to the unpredictable environment of air combat and that is why i love it. Maybe you guys should spend more time in there. The number of geniuses who have decided to prioritize ACM over everything else is ridiculous but hey you are not alone.....
Try playing Tribes, Quake, World of Warcraft, Everquest.....there are the over serious noobs who emphasize one aspect of the game over everything else and insult folks who just have fun....I'm sorry when I hold a mirror up you are more fascinated by the reflection then understanding what is truly being shown...
If widewing is an amazing guy then my first encounter with him is very negative and he can reflect on that as well...perhaps he should reread his first post and decide if that is the post that would make me think well of trainers or be convinced that the true dweebs have infiltrated the training ranks. I would hope someone who has dedicated himself to only training would be amazing....but who really cares...resume material for you?? Murder is of the same ilk...though it is only lately that I find him annoying. :salute
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You basicaly want me to repeat what I wrote in the previous post? Are you really not going to reply to this future post with one more request for me to repeat it?
I'll do it later.
Looking forward to it.
This is actually kinda fun, however pointless.
I eagerly await your response.
I think I'm off to "amalgamate" again.
But this time I'm gonna wear a glove! :aok
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First, Aces High is first and foremost, a flying game. The Trainer Corps places its emphasis on that.
<snip>
If someone contacts the Trainer Corps, or asks a trainer for help with any aspect of the game, they will get help. No one is turned away because of topic.
Does that cover everything?
My regards,
Widewing
That covers everything rather well, thanks.
I do think it is a bit disappointing I had to ask. Seems more and more lately things are getting back to the old "furballer vs. toolshedder" arguments, and the trainers by and large seem to advocate a strong "furballer" stance when there are other aspects of the game that are just as entertaining for some.
Key word there: Entertaining. You say it is first and foremost a flying game, but I would say on a more fundamental level it is entertainment. How someone acheives that entertainment is up to them, and IMO, no one should be belittled for what moves them to subscribe to the game.
My unsolicited $0.02 directed toward no one in particular. I now return you to your regularly scheduled flame-fest.
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Sooooo...there is a secret club with secret charter and secret numbers that secret people belong too....but they are waaaay better then anyone else...got it :devil
A proper ridicule points out something ridiculous.. Other than that secret club (as far as you say anyway) being secret, is there something ridiculous here? You mean that they couldn't beat up your squad? Not saying that myself, that's just how your post comes off as. Do you not get that this isn't about your squad in particular or how good or bad it is at this game compared to any other? Just the fact that squads beyond a certain size don't fit the game's criteria? Quality over quantity?
And yes widewing is a tool imho....he started with a post that insulted BoPs and he is welcome to apologize and start again...I have played many years longer then him...i just choose to enjoy the whole game as a game and not as a life decision. I'm sure if I was motivated i oculd memorize optimal turn speeds and radiuses for all the planes and be uber too. The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey. If people who read ww2 aviation history really thinks we come even close to what actually occurred by DA standards then I can't help you. The MA for me is the closest to the unpredictable environment of air combat and that is why i love it. Maybe you guys should spend more time in there. The number of geniuses who have decided to prioritize ACM over everything else is ridiculous but hey you are not alone.....
Mischaracterization.
You don't need to memorize speeds or put pure ACM above everything else. I'm a crappy teacher because I do everything instinctively. I do all sorts of gameplay types.. Plenty of times the other muppets logged while I was dweebing around in missions or GVs or strat playing. Badboy (in shades) trolled around in the DA and the only decisive kills he could manage was flying in a single flat circle at precisely the optimal corner speed. It's boring, the opposite of what I consider a good fight. - Again... The point isn't that being a relatively crappy player is bad.. It's anytime you (general you) argue that the game and player are better off avoiding improving their skill (yes, I said skill, the word existed before games, look up what it really means in a dictionary). You can't enjoy a game if you can't play it. You can't have as much fun (all other things being equal) as someone who's more skilled than you. He may not have more fun than you at any particular thing, but he can do more particular things in this hypothetical game. There's nothing condescending in saying this, so yours and Boner's whole pretention that "me and my ilk" are elitist blowhards is bogus.
Bogus also because you're the leader of such a big "squad" but don't even have the sense (correct me if I'm wrong) to influence all the crappier players (yes that's what a lot of em are, we've all been there) into getting better. Also bogus because you guys are the ones that brought the whole enoodle wagging into this. Yeah, the "dfc" would mop the floor with you guys, at pure dogfighting or base taking, but that's not the point!
Try playing Tribes, Quake, World of Warcraft, Everquest.....there are the over serious noobs who emphasize one aspect of the game over everything else and insult folks who just have fun....I'm sorry when I hold a mirror up you are more fascinated by the reflection then understanding what is truly being shown...
If widewing is an amazing guy then my first encounter with him is very negative and he can reflect on that as well...perhaps he should reread his first post and decide if that is the post that would make me think well of trainers or be convinced that the true dweebs have infiltrated the training ranks. Murder is of the same ilk...though it is only lately that I find him annoying. :salute
You don't know what you're talking about, period. You're starting to sound as full of yourself and not worth arguing with as Rox. Something tells me this fits with your intentions too.. Who cares who's right so long as you get to have the last word and save face for your oh so precious proof fun and credibility - your squad size. And again I personaly don't give a rat's about your specific squad size. It's your 15$. The point remains that the game is better off with squads limits no larger than what guarantees close knit squads. Whether Widewing is a tool like you say is totaly beside the point. You fell back on that because you have no argument otherwise. Nevermind the fact that he isn't, that ACM is the building block of this game's value, that there's nothing elitist about wanting to improve players' abilities by learning said ACM (which you don't care for as far as I've seen), etc.
Looking forward to it.
This is actually kinda fun, however pointless.
I eagerly await your response.
I think I'm off to "amalgamate" again.
But this time I'm gonna wear a glove! :aok
Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language? Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here?
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Just come pick it up.
Philly is not that far. :D
Philly? :D Ill bring a van over tomorrow.Im on the other side of the river outside of Camden.Thanks in advance :aok
Pipz
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A proper ridicule points out something ridiculous.. Other than that secret club (as far as you say anyway) being secret, is there something ridiculous here? yes its ridiculous...but thats my opinion...but issuing a challenge from said secret club makes it more ridiculous...see how does anyone know who is in a secret squad if it is secret??? Its like saying my soccer team can beat your high schools soccer team...but my soccer team is a secret team of handpicked players....kind of ridiculousYou mean that they couldn't beat up your squad? Not saying that myself, that's just how your post comes off as. Do you not get that this isn't about your squad in particular or how good or bad it is at this game compared to any other? Just the fact that squads beyond a certain size don't fit the game's criteria? Quality over quantity? Take off your blinders and read widewings first post. It was ALL about my squad and very little about anything else
Mischaracterization.
You don't need to memorize speeds or put pure ACM above everything else. I'm a crappy teacher because I do everything instinctively. I do all sorts of gameplay types.. Plenty of times the other muppets logged while I was dweebing around in missions or GVs or strat playing. Badboy (in shades) trolled around in the DA and the only decisive kills he could manage was flying in a single flat circle at precisely the optimal corner speed. It's boring, the opposite of what I consider a good fight. - Again... The point isn't that being a relatively crappy player is bad.. It's anytime you (general you) argue that the game and player are better off avoiding improving their skill (yes, I said skill, the word existed before games, look up what it really means in a dictionary). You can't enjoy a game if you can't play it. You can't have as much fun (all other things being equal) as someone who's more skilled than you. He may not have more fun than you at any particular thing, but he can do more particular things in this hypothetical game. There's nothing condescending in saying this, so yours and Boner's whole pretention that "me and my ilk" are elitist blowhards is bogus. No... its true...i can beat 95% of the pilots i run into...what percent makes it okay in your "ilks" opinion to say "hey im pretty good i think ill just have fun?"
Bogus also because you're the leader of such a big "squad" but don't even have the sense (correct me if I'm wrong) to influence all the crappier players (yes that's what a lot of em are, we've all been there) into getting better. Also bogus because you guys are the ones that brought the whole enoodle wagging into this. huh? we issued a challenge? I did not even know and still dont really... what a dfc is? Yeah, the "dfc" would mop the floor with you guys, at pure dogfighting or base taking, but that's not the point! again syaing invisible guys who wont form a squad are better then set guys is an easy way out
You don't know what you're talking about, period. You're starting to sound as full of yourself and not worth arguing with as Rox. Something tells me this fits with your intentions too.. Who cares who's right so long as you get to have the last word and save face for your oh so precious proof fun and credibility - your squad size. honestly it sounds more like you...every thread about squad size you, bronk, murdr, pothead420 have to jump in...try staying out and UNDERSTAND that the real people are having fun despite what you try and tell them. I get that that is very frustrating to the over serious folksAnd again I personaly don't give a rat's about your specific squad size. It's your 15$. The point remains that the game is better off with squads limits no larger than what guarantees close knit squads. Whether Widewing is a tool like you say is totaly beside the point. You fell back on that because you have no argument otherwise.No...i gleaned this from his approach to conversation Nevermind the fact that he isn't, that ACM is the building block of this game's valueBS..you just dont get it....its a game...FUN is the building block....there are a million ways to virtual "kill" on the web...we choose cartoon airplanes....but its a game first or people wouldn't play long enough for the business to work, that there's nothing elitist about wanting to improve players' abilities by learning said ACM (which you don't care for as far as I've seen), etc. I'm always available to DA
Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language? Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here? there is no need for any disagreement....read this carefully...it is a big game...fun can be had many ways....the whole point of this WISHLIST thread was to see how folks can find guys easily who they would like to have FUN with IF they are not enrolled in their squad....everything else was multi-wing squad bashing drivel sponsered by the trainers and furballers and honestly ...you
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Ya just can't go wrong bashing 107 member multi-wing squads. (thankfully most of them don't look at the bbs) FWIW, I REALLY don't think it was specifically a Bop-bashing-thread...(although we COULD have a forum for that)....but more specifically a thread to stop THIS
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3454/3248097535_c4e5869790.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/3248924140_1b97e1d346.jpg?v=0)
One arena 75 over...the other has above. I usually log and read a book
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Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language? Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here?
Hey Moot!
Please believe me when I tell you that I was not trying to ridicule you or your choice of words.
I just found a little humor in the word "amalgamate" and decided to have a little fun with it.
So consequently yes, you are getting the wrong impression.
As far as the disagreeements go?
I don't think we will see eye to eye on this subject no matter how much we try to persuade each other.
Different strokes (pun intended) for different folks.
Lets leave it at that.
Hope to cya soon, up in the friendly skies of AH!
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I have not bashed so called "megasquads" in this thread. I have, in vain I might add, tried to point out what a "squadron" is defined as in AH, and how it was historically defined. But the current trend seems to be "eff everyone else, I make my own definitions".
The OP asked for channel 4, map highlighting, and .sr privileges for something other than what a "squad" is defined as by the developer in AH. Effectively that is the same as redefining the definition of a squadron. Obvously I disagree with that request.
That was up until the point that a poster decided to start bashing the AHTC without provocation. Carrying on an argument with a single trainer or even a couple is not justification for dragging the entire trainer corps into it. I can see the response to that statement would be "but he dragged my squad into it". If you think there is some kind of equivlence between "a squad" and any one of the many volunteer teams that put so much time in to enhance AH for everyone, not only do I think you're mistaken, but I also think that if I direct HTC's attention to this thread, that mistake will be proven.
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The CH are not a "mega-squad" but we can mass together some pretty large #'s on squad nights.
A lot of the reason these squads are so big is that we are all friends and we all enjoy playing and talking with each other. Its how we enjoy the game, and flying and dying is apart of that.
My 2 cents.
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Quite frankly, I for one desire to do nothing other than shoot down a few "enemy" planes. And the more skill my opponents possess, the more fun and interesting I find the fight.
I'm also basically a "lone wolf". I fight alone, as does my (only) squadie. We may be flying near each other, but we don't jump into each others fight unless multiples are on one of us. Even then, generally one of us needs to have 3 on him before we consider it troubling. My squad consists of two members. We could see letting it grow to 4 members, maybe. Personally, after that I'd tune off the channel. Too much chatter. I have loads of friends. I'm not anti-social. I just don't like a bunch of chatter. I turned down many invites, and left my old squad (327th Steel Talons, another large multi-wing squad) because I didn't like the chatter.
I don't care what size squad you belong to. Not a bit. I don't even know which squad you belong to. I kind of figured Falconwing was a fitting name for a BoP member (but I honestly didn't know for sure until a few posts ago. A top dog in that squad? I wasn't even aware he was still around...), and I knew previously that humble and a few others belonged to the 71st, and a few that belonged to the muppets. Who really cares? And believe it on not I'll forget what squad you guys belong to within a week, unless you remind me. Not because I have a bad memory, but because your squad affiliation means no more to me than what the temperature was 3 Tuesdays ago at 3:17am in the shed behind some broken down car.
An individual will be much more memorable to me. Not just from a skill standpoint, but from a "value to the community/game" standpoint. Is that person contributing to the overall fun of the game for the majority of the participants? Or being a detriment?
Someone mentioned earlier that this game takes no skill. That's a true statement for many people. All you need to do is surround yourself with enough others and it makes it true. Can't shoot anyone down? Gang 'em with 11 other planes, and you'll get lucky eventually (I was actually in a 12v1 the other day). You might even live through the "fight". Can't drop a bomb on a target? That's ok, someone in the horde will hit it. As a matter of fact, lack of skill in a situation like that may be a benefit, since it may keep you from getting discouraged with your mob. You'll look at the occasional kill as a bonus, rather than be upset when 9 of your friends swarm the one enemy plane in the sector. Does that mean that all in a mob are skill-less? No. But what's the point in possessing any skill in that situation? Slamming into the ground accidentally might even help your swarm; you can bring another C47.
I don't even care if you're in a horde. I just can't see the point in swarming over an area without an opposing horde. Horde vs horde can be fun. How is it fun to be in a 3v1, if you possess even basic skill and mental accuity? More than a 3v1 is cause for flat-out embarassment, at least in my eyes. Especially since I can't remember a single time a fight like that consisted of anything other than 3 individuals racing each other for the kill. Teamwork?? LMAO!
And I say that from a game/entertainment standpoint. What fun is a game without equal opposition? Last night was a great football game, and I don't even like football. Had it been 20 players vs 3 it would have sucked. What's the point? Could we have seen the "winners" as anything but "losers"? How ridiculous would it be had they cheered themselves on and proclaimed it an outstanding victory? How could they expect their peers to view them with respect? This is a game, not a war. As such, it relies on equal opposition.
It's not that the horde-mongers are necessarily skill-less knobs, it's that they come across as such.
I'm a furballer I guess, since I don't give a hoot who owns which field. But if this was purely a furball game I'd get bored and leave. To me it's the wide variety and the resulting unpredictabilty that makes the game fun. I like the fact that some want to play the capture game. Or the GV game. Whatever! Do it with a squad, big or small, I don't care. But at least make it interesting...
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I am a member of the DFC ( Dog Fighters Club ), we do not PROMOTE furballing, we promote fair game play, proper BFM & ACM Mechanics, and many of us are long time AH vets that have been here from day1 of open beta and even hold the same positions on volunteer staff as we held for many years in prior / earlier only flight sims.....
Falconwing, you are 100% wrong in bashing the Aces High Training Corps..... and I guarantee you that you could fly another 10 years and not even approach the number of amount of players I have helped in flight sims.
The reason the DFC is not a squad and is a club, because it is a club for like minded individuals who want the best for Aces High, nothing more / nothing less........ the DFC is really your pillars of the community that give their time to make this game better for everyone, from Trainers, to Terrain Designers, to CM's, to individual volunteers to skinners ad infinium.......
We promote FSO / Scenarios / Squad vs Squad dueling Ladder / KOTH / we promote fair game play......... the fair game play is your issue none the less, because your what is it 6 wing squad is the exact opposite of fair game play..........I'll say it agian, we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas
just like private vox channel 169 in KOTH and you and the others that were tuned to it, so a rule was imposed to prevent chatting in VOX on anything except channel 101 for everyone....we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas.... You never flew another KOTH after that day if I recall when the KOTH CM's witnessed who all was tuned to the channel.....I will bury that ancient history now, for it was a while ago......
as far as jumping on a Trainer because he wearing the Trainer Tag, that is not our option to turn it off and on at our demand, so take timeout and realize All Volunteer Staff are allowed to post their person thoughts/comment s/opnions and take them as such, before bashing a whole volunteered group of people.
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Yea, because there's a unit structure
A Flight is 4-6 aircraft
A Squadron is 3-4 Flights
A Group is 2-10 Squadrons
A Wing is 2+ Groups
An Air Force (eg. 8th Air Force) is 2+ wings
HTC says a squadron is 32 players (as opposed to USAAF 12-24 planes). More that is a higher unit than "a squadron", period.
you for got one...and element it is just before a flight made up of half the flight and for man flight would have 2 elements and a 6 man 3 idk how 5 would work but yea....
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ZZZZZZZ...
There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing... Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"...
You guys horde because individually, you stink up the arena.
Tell ya what, I'll gather 32 members of the DFC, you gather 32 BOPs. We meet in the SEA arena. Care to guess how long it is before 32 BOPs are in the tower?
Bring an egg timer.
My regards,
Widewing
Obviously murder and gang like pretending this wasn't the post that made me question who exactly populated the AH training Corp....
Once again I am happy to accept an apology anytime on behalf of the training corp for this unsolicited comment...this thread was about the possibility of a search option for finidng folks to fly with....this is what was presented.
Murdr, another member has been following me in several threads and also has dimmed my view of the training corp....
I'm sure there are decent guys who contribute to this game without feeling the need to insult/harrass/try to embarrass others but this has not been my experience....guys like this and posts like this are insulting even if they avoid violating a set rule... ;)
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Some people are just ignorant
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I am a member of the DFC ( Dog Fighters Club ), we do not PROMOTE furballing, we promote fair game play, proper BFM & ACM Mechanics, and many of us are long time AH vets that have been here from day1 of open beta and even hold the same positions on volunteer staff as we held for many years in prior / earlier only flight sims.....
Falconwing, you are 100% wrong in bashing the Aces High Training Corps..... and I guarantee you that you could fly another 10 years and not even approach the number of amount of players I have helped in flight sims.
The reason the DFC is not a squad and is a club, because it is a club for like minded individuals who want the best for Aces High, nothing more / nothing less........ the DFC is really your pillars of the community that give their time to make this game better for everyone, from Trainers, to Terrain Designers, to CM's, to individual volunteers to skinners ad infinium.......
We promote FSO / Scenarios / Squad vs Squad dueling Ladder / KOTH / we promote fair game play......... the fair game play is your issue none the less, because your what is it 6 wing squad is the exact opposite of fair game play..........I'll say it agian, we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas
just like private vox channel 169 in KOTH and you and the others that were tuned to it, so a rule was imposed to prevent chatting in VOX on anything except channel 101 for everyone....we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas.... You never flew another KOTH after that day if I recall when the KOTH CM's witnessed who all was tuned to the channel.....I will bury that ancient history now, for it was a while ago......Huh??? I don't even know what you are talking about here???? Our squad ch is 182 and BoPs hardly ever flew KOTH. Wow....you guys are really reaching here....what advantage could you seriously think i ever had when i never even won a round of KOTH??? Pull out some facts here because this is going a bit far....I quit flying KOTH after Lute quit running it...you guys are really pushing it with these personal insinuations and attacks....NOW IM A CHEATER because i have abeef with some of the trainers behaviors?????
as far as jumping on a Trainer because he wearing the Trainer Tag, that is not our option to turn it off and on at our demand, so take timeout and realize All Volunteer Staff are allowed to post their person thoughts/comment s/opnions and take them as such, before bashing a whole volunteered group of people.
TC this was my comment:
"It seems like the training corp should be called the whining corp lately...no wonder noone wants any part of the TA if tools like this are what are awaiting them."
Please feel free to read Widewing's initial post that made me type this in response....
This is also because Murdr seems to have made it his goal to follow me on threads and repost 3 year old comments out of context of current discussions and now Widewing has decided to get personal with me and my squad....they wear the Training tags...but instead of remaining above the fray they dive in and then try to hide behind a larger shield when they bring questions upon exactly what qualities they are espousing.
Try this a different way...if my sons teacher was promoting a politically correct agenda and my daughter's teacher began doing the same...and I made the comment..."jeez seems like teachers should be called the PC police lately"...a reasonable person would interpret that as an attack on all teachers??? Please...the few represent the whole...and the whole should be willing to police personal attacks if it is something they don't want back. "FalconBluster" I believe was how widewing referred to me.
If you took this as a personal attack on ALL trainers then i apologize to them...but not to you....How dare you suggest I cheated in KOTH????? (read my comments above)...I hope skuzzy addresses this...this is ridiculous....
BoPs have fielded many folks who contribute....Waffle (Dan) was a BoP for about 2 years prior to going to work with HTC...MachNix skins many of the planes you fly....USRanger does soundpacks....Thndregg/Flaydone have developed buff gun sites...etc etc. I have contributed because I gave these guys a situation (squad) that enhances their enjoyment of the game. Maybe you feel comfortable saying their contributions are not the equivalent of yours but I would disagree...I think it is all part and parcel of the same....can many other squads name as many contributors??? You ARE like the other trainers in that you seem comfortable putting down others contributions as not being as large as yours...I personally dont have that confidence to know how to judge who has "done more."
I will tell you one thing...no BOP has ever posted trying to prevent "furballers" from getting something they want...DA...Fitertown....AvA. ..new planes...etc.
But "furballers" seem comfortable "rejecting" wishlist wishes that would make guys who look to fly with more then a handful of peoples fun enhanced...and not by just saying "no thanks" but by insulting their squads along the way :huh
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That covers everything rather well, thanks.
I do think it is a bit disappointing I had to ask. Seems more and more lately things are getting back to the old "furballer vs. toolshedder" arguments, and the trainers by and large seem to advocate a strong "furballer" stance when there are other aspects of the game that are just as entertaining for some.
Key word there: Entertaining. You say it is first and foremost a flying game, but I would say on a more fundamental level it is entertainment. How someone acheives that entertainment is up to them, and IMO, no one should be belittled for what moves them to subscribe to the game.
My unsolicited $0.02 directed toward no one in particular. I now return you to your regularly scheduled flame-fest.
Its not about furballers vs landgrabbers, its about honorable play, fair play.
Plan A...
Launch 3 formations of buffs, 5 AC as fighter cover for them, 6 hvy fighters as clean up/gv killers, one goon. Arrive at target at 10-15k, hopefully your cover fights have SKILLFULLY defended your buffs to get them there. Bomb runs are made SKILLFULLY hitting 90 % of the town from 15k. HVY fighters drop in, two are assign to finish off the town, the other 4 hunt gvs trying to get to town for defense. Goon dive in, and loops at 50 feet off the ground dropping troops in an arc over the town. All fighter now are low trying to keep a cap long enough for the troops to make it in.
Plan B ( the one we have these days)...
Launch 7 110's, 7 Nik's and one goon. Everyone takes a direct line to the target staying under 500 feet. Everyone makes one pass on the town with cannons taking out 50% of the town. 110's stay at town shooting buildings while the NIKs vulch base. Goon mozzies in, lands outside of town and troops run in.
Which plan is more fun? Which plan could possibly be defended against thus creating more fun? Which one takes more skill in pulling off? Which would you be more proud winning with?
Niether plan by the way has anything remotely looking like a furball, but I bet most of the guys YOU label furballers would love to be part of either side of "Plan A" just for the fun it would be, just for the fun fights it would create. The old days were about skills, today its more about numbers. The old days people wanted to learn to get better, now a days people throw body after body at a target until it crumbles.
You want to take base, you want to win the war, by all means go for it, but make a game of it, fight for it. Say you have 10 guys in your squad, 5 are average players, 5 are newbies and have trouble hitting the ground with a bomb. What do you do? Do you take the time to train, or encourage those 5 newbies to learn more and get better, or do you get your self another 5-10 newbies to throw at the target? To day it seems the answer is to just get a bunch more newbies, start another wing.
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And yes widewing seems foolish imho....he started with a post that insulted BoPs and he is welcome to apologize and start again...I have played many years longer then him...i just choose to enjoy the whole game as a game and not as a life decision. I'm sure if I was motivated i could memorize optimal turn speeds and radiuses for all the planes and be uber too. The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey. If people who read ww2 aviation history really thinks we come even close to what actually occurred by DA standards then I can't help you. The MA for me is the closest to the unpredictable environment of air combat and that is why i love it. Maybe you guys should spend more time in there. The number of geniuses who have decided to prioritize ACM over everything else is ridiculous but hey you are not alone.....
<snip rambling>
If widewing is an amazing guy then my first encounter with him is very negative and he can reflect on that as well...perhaps he should reread his first post and decide if that is the post that would make me think well of trainers or be convinced that the true dweebs have infiltrated the training ranks. I would hope someone who has dedicated himself to only training would be amazing....but who really cares...resume material for you?? Murder is of the same ilk...though it is only lately that I find him annoying. :salute
I stated: "There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing... Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"..."
I made a statement of fact. It's a fact because you, their leader, discourage them from learning basic ACM. If you find that facts insult, change the facts. You can change the facts by getting your squadies some training. Not the type I suspect you emphasize, but training that teaches them some basics in air combat maneuvering, which you brand as "gamey". Rather than make such statements, encourage your guys to learn how to fight effectively, even if alone. Indeed, the only guy in your squad that I have seen flying alone is REVRAND in his Niki. I have found him at a few in-between field furballs... Having let that cat out of the bag, don't kick him out of the BOPs. ;)
Rather that spreading more manure than a Tennessee tobacco farmer, admit that your guys could benefit from ACM training. This would strengthen the BOPs, and it would allow for some diversity in game play. You won't have to avoid an even-up fight to have success. The problem isn't the rank and file of the BOPs, the problem is their leadership. That means you. I'd bet that there are several members of the various BOP squads that have the talent to be a top tier stick, if only they were directed that way and challenged. All of them can certainly improve substantially. So, why would you not encourage that?
I suggested you bring your guys to the TA for a 3v1 clinic, or a wingman clinic. If you think that they won't learn something of value, you would be completely incorrect. You would even get to fight a trainer, 3 on 1. In fact, everyone will get to defend 3v1. They'll learn how to judge the greatest threat, and the most simple yet most difficult factor to master: Winning a 3v1 requires you to kill one guy as fast as possible. Which one? How to decide? How to fight 3 as 1. Decision making. Judging E states. Recognizing the weakest of the 3, etc and so on.
Being uber is far more than just knowing and recognizing the absolute capabilities of each fighter. However, without that knowledge, you will never be able to jump into any fighter and immediately be good in it. I have found that guys who specialize in one type usually cannot compete nearly as well in another type. Therefore, I preach that learning every aircraft is a critical part of being well rounded. Those of you who compete in KOTH events understand exactly what I'm driving at. Sometimes, the specialist isn't really as good as was supposed. Single dimension pilots will eventually have to face their limitations and suck up the result. Here's an example. I flew a series of duels with a guy thought by many in the community to be the best in his particular fighter. His problem was that his style never prepared him for a close-in, low speed fight where knowledge of plane handling at the absolute limit was required. We flew his ride and it was a debacle for him. However, he now understands what I am trying to enlighten you with.
You would be surprised how more fun your guys could have if they were confident that they could fight with a reasonable expectation of winning as individuals and not just as a gang.
You made this statement that belies your ignorance of history: "The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey." Your reference was to ACM and detailed performance knowledge of the aircraft. That is completely wrong. Ever hear of "Clobber College"? This was a required course for all incoming P-51 pilots to the 8th Air Force. They were taught advanced air combat maneuvering. They were taught how to extract maximum performance from their Mustangs. They were indoctrinated in the relative performance, strengths and weaknesses of enemy aircraft. Why do you think they did this? Because, sooner or later, their survival would depend on their ACM training and their knowledge of aircraft performance, capability and their individual skill at utilizing all of it.
Listen, you've reached China, stop digging.
My regards,
Widewing
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I stated: "There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing... Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"..."
I made a statement of fact. It's a fact because you, their leader, discourage them from learning basic ACM. If you find that facts insult, change the facts. You can change the facts by getting your squadies some training. Not the type I suspect you emphasize, but training that teaches them some basics in air combat maneuvering, which you brand as "gamey". Rather than make such statements, encourage your guys to learn how to fight effectively, even if alone. Indeed, the only guy in your squad that I have seen flying alone is REVRAND in his Niki. I have found him at a few in-between field furballs... Having let that cat out of the bag, don't kick him out of the BOPs. ;)
Rather that spreading more manure than a Tennessee tobacco farmer, admit that your guys could benefit from ACM training. This would strengthen the BOPs, and it would allow for some diversity in game play. You won't have to avoid an even-up fight to have success. The problem isn't the rank and file of the BOPs, the problem is their leadership. That means you. I'd bet that there are several members of the various BOP squads that have the talent to be a top tier stick, if only they were directed that way and challenged. All of them can certainly improve substantially. So, why would you not encourage that?
I suggested you bring your guys to the TA for a 3v1 clinic, or a wingman clinic. If you think that they won't learn something of value, you would be completely incorrect. You would even get to fight a trainer, 3 on 1. In fact, everyone will get to defend 3v1. They'll learn how to judge the greatest threat, and the most simple yet most difficult factor to master: Winning a 3v1 requires you to kill one guy as fast as possible. Which one? How to decide? How to fight 3 as 1. Decision making. Judging E states. Recognizing the weakest of the 3, etc and so on.
Being uber is far more than just knowing and recognizing the absolute capabilities of each fighter. However, without that knowledge, you will never be able to jump into any fighter and immediately be good in it. I have found that guys who specialize in one type usually cannot compete nearly as well in another type. Therefore, I preach that learning every aircraft is a critical part of being well rounded. Those of you who compete in KOTH events understand exactly what I'm driving at. Sometimes, the specialist isn't really as good as was supposed. Single dimension pilots will eventually have to face their limitations and suck up the result. Here's an example. I flew a series of duels with a guy thought by many in the community to be the best in his particular fighter. His problem was that his style never prepared him for a close-in, low speed fight where knowledge of plane handling at the absolute limit was required. We flew his ride and it was a debacle for him. However, he now understands what I am trying to enlighten you with.
You would be surprised how more fun your guys could have if they were confident that they could fight with a reasonable expectation of winning as individuals and not just as a gang.
You made this statement that belies your ignorance of history: "The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey." Your reference was to ACM and detailed performance knowledge of the aircraft. That is completely wrong. Ever hear of "Clobber College"? This was a required course for all incoming P-51 pilots to the 8th Air Force. They were taught advanced air combat maneuvering. They were taught how to extract maximum performance from their Mustangs. They were indoctrinated in the relative performance, strengths and weaknesses of enemy aircraft. Why do you think they did this? Because, sooner or later, their survival would depend on their ACM training and their knowledge of aircraft performance, capability and their individual skill at utilizing all of it.
Listen, you've reached China, stop digging.
My regards,
Widewing
Once again you are stating facts that aren't true...I have had 1v1 2v2 and 5 v5 training sessions for bops...a few squad nights ago the eny was ridiculous and we all went to the DA and furballed all night long. We conduct fiter sweeps and are assigned wingmen for fights...you are flat out lying...
We have had many fiter clinics and discuss exactly such things as e-fighting, flap and throttle usage....I dont even know how to buff...
I realize this is now a he said/she said but I'm sorry you insist on pushing a lie...just like TC suggesting I used alternate vox to "cheat" at KOTH. I won't even let BoPs switch sides to "spy". When folks have tried to pm me cv locations etc i refuse to accept the information. How dare you suggest you know how i run my squad or what we do or don't do...
Being Uber in a vitual game is useless....having fun is useful....I choose to have fun and you have a problem with it. I'm satisfied with being uber in life and not overcommitting the time i already spend on a video game...
:rolleyes:
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Some people are just ignorant
aye
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Murdr, another member has been following me in several threads
Try again dillweed. Murdr: Replies #4 and #11. Falconwing: Reply #23 Who's following who? I hadn't said a word to you recently until you started sniping at "the trainers" in general.
and also has dimmed my view of the training corp....
No doubt you're making an impression in this thread yourself.
I hope skuzzy addresses this...this is ridiculous....
From the looks of page 1 where you are told to see rule #4, it seems to be a possibility.
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you are flat out lying...
Yep. You and ROX are cut from the same delusional cloth. First you've never even heard of the guy, and now you expect him to have first hand knowledge of your squads activities...There's no other way to read the above...not "you are mistaken" or "you assume incorrectly". It's "you are flat out lying". Can we expect a ROX type follow up where you habitually post you've proven so-n-so's a liar now?
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Yep. You and ROX are cut from the same delusional cloth. First you've never even heard of the guy, and now you expect him to have first hand knowledge of your squads activities...There's no other way to read the above...not "you are mistaken" or "you assume incorrectly". It's "you are flat out lying". Can we expect a ROX type follow up where you habitually post you've proven so-n-so's a liar now?
do you even read the quotes? Read what he typed THEN read what i posted. Use a dictionary and look up the word "lying". He says he knows what i do or dont do with my squad. Again...READ HIS POST...
Why would i have to know the guy to say he is lying??? If this continues to perplex you I'll ask my 8th grader to explain the use of the English language...
<shakes leg again>
Actually ROX is not a bad guy...his approach to the trying to organize the knights is not far off what we once did for the Bish....but I'M not the virtual character judger you are...don't fall off your pedestal.... :rofl :lol :rofl
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Try again dillweed. Murdr: Replies #4 and #11. Falconwing: Reply #23 Who's following who? I hadn't said a word to you recently until you started sniping at "the trainers" in general. Um reply #23 had nothing to do with you or trainers...nice try. You started in on me in the other thread under wishlist about squad vox...so please OFF MY ANKLE!!
No doubt you're making an impression in this thread yourself.
From the looks of page 1 where you are told to see rule #4, it seems to be a possibility.
I believe calling me a dillweed in this thread would violate rule #4 as well
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I have no problems reading. You said:
If you take this game as a game of skill the you are horribly confused as to what skill is...this is a decent cartoon plane game...if you think you can take your skillz and go fly a real plane or go help the president in "Independence Day" you are nuts.
and in general ridiculing ACM.
Based on the above attitude stated in you own words, Widewing said:
It's a fact because you, their leader, discourage them from learning basic ACM. If you find that facts insult, change the facts. You can change the facts by getting your squadies some training. Not the type I suspect you emphasize, but training that teaches them some basics in air combat maneuvering, which you brand as "gamey".
And you call him a liar.
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Once again you are stating facts that aren't true...I have had 1v1 2v2 and 5 v5 training sessions for bops...a few squad nights ago the eny was ridiculous and we all went to the DA and furballed all night long. We conduct fiter sweeps and are assigned wingmen for fights...you are flat out lying...
We have had many fiter clinics and discuss exactly such things as e-fighting, flap and throttle usage....I dont even know how to buff...
I realize this is now a he said/she said but I'm sorry you insist on pushing a lie...just like TC suggesting I used alternate vox to "cheat" at KOTH. I won't even let BoPs switch sides to "spy". When folks have tried to pm me cv locations etc i refuse to accept the information. How dare you suggest you know how i run my squad or what we do or don't do...
Being Uber in a vitual game is useless....having fun is useful....I choose to have fun and you have a problem with it. I'm satisfied with being uber in life and not overcommitting the time i already spend on a video game...
:rolleyes:
You realize that you contradict yourself repeatedly throughout this thread, right?
ACM is gamey, but you train your guys 1v1, 2v2 and 5v5... What are you training them to do? You see, this goes back to my point that you can't admit that ACM training is essential.
AH2 is an air combat game. Base captures are not the ultimate goal. The ability to capture exists as a means to facilitate air combat. You prefer to sneak in, avoiding air combat (or at least that where you cannot gang the few defenders). Let me know if I stray off the truth, okay? You discourage your squad members from getting training from anyone but you, correct? I mean, being good at something is useless, right? You don't want to spend additional time to train and build skills as you are too busy leading the "uber life", whatever the hell that means, correct?
Have you asked your guys if they might want some formal training (not your kind, our kind)? I've offered to gather trainers and DFC members to work with your people to build useful and essential skills. You refuse.... Why? We don't send a bill.
A leader looks out for the welfare of those under him. He strives to provide the best means for them to grow and excel. He places emphasis on continuous improvement. He leads by example. He doesn't draw attention to himself. <---- When you are doing this stuff, you're a leader.
My regards,
Widewing
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Murdr, another member has been following me in several threads
Now if we want to make a case for a liar. Several is what 2? 3? Threads. Already established that I was participating in this thread first. Go look up the thread from a few weeks ago. I was already participating in that discussion for quite awhile before you chimed in. So the truth is that you started baggin on the trainers, and I posted in the sister topic that Bronk started, in reply to this threads wish, which by the way I was already participating in.
mommy, the mean man called me a dillweed :cry
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I have no problems reading. You said: and in general ridiculing ACM.And from this he knows that i guide my wingmen/squaddies away from being good pilots or learning ACM??? You guys are psychic wonders!!! BTW you put the word "acm" in there...good grief
Based on the above attitude stated in you own words, Widewing said:
And you call him a liar.so now you know how widewing arrived at his conclusions??? He makes direct statements about my direct instructions to my squad. This would be contraindicated by anyone who visitedour website or even flew with us. seriously dude lighten up...you are trying so hard to push my buttons and with everything you do its obvious and spotted a mile away
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And from this he knows that i guide my wingmen/squaddies away from being good pilots or learning ACM??? You guys are psychic wonders!!! BTW you put the word "acm" in there...good grief
Your own words:
Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best and that what was best about this game was the comradery and fun to be had...
You're the "button pusher" here. This is how you entered this discussion:
What a bunch of crybabies....yeesh....
First of all compose a full list ...there are at least ten other active squads with 2+ "squads" AK's, WoT, Unforgiven, 173rd etc etc
Second of all dont be such idiots...
My advise is to stop digging.
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You realize that you contradict yourself repeatedly throughout this thread, right?
ACM is gamey, but you train your guys 1v1, 2v2 and 5v5... What are you training them to do? You see, this goes back to my point that you can't admit that ACM training is essential. I said taking ACM to the academic level and out of the fun level is gamey...correct...to me you are like the guy from the Leroy Jenkins u-tube who calculates their rate of success at x.x%... over the top for me...takes away from fun and makes it work
AH2 is an air combat game. Base captures are not the ultimate goal. The ability to capture exists as a means to facilitate air combat. You prefer to sneak in, avoiding air combat (or at least that where you cannot gang the few defenders). Let me know if I stray off the truth, okay?Depends on what we are up to...everynight is different...a beauty of this game You discourage your squad members from getting training from anyone but you, correct? where do you get this drivel from bud??? why would i "forbid" folks from getting trained? you are making stuff up againI mean, being good at something is useless, right?being the best virtual pilot wins you...um nothing..correct :aok You don't want to spend additional time to train and build skills as you are too busy leading the "uber life", whatever the hell that means, correct? I would say AH is a fun game that involves killing using ww2 vehicles and planes instead of using spaceships/goblins/etc....for some of us it is a means of relaxation (an alternative to going to a bar etc) there are many ways to have fun and for me and my guys goofing on vox while accomplishing something is fun. In AH you can either run up kills or take bases...we do a bit of both...there is no glory in being the top 5% of base capturers or acm kings...as with everything in life it is a balance between the amount of time invested and how much success you wish to have. I currently prefer to be in the MA over the TA or DA...other guys prefer the opposite...i could care less. 12 years ago when i began in AWC I preferred the ACM side but after a few years at some point it felt like work and the fun began to leave...so i chose to be good at most things...(except buffing...no offense ot buff drivers i just dont have the patience or time) and focus on the virtual "hanging out" that gives me a break and is fun
Have you asked your guys if they might want some formal training (not your kind, our kind)? I've offered to gather trainers and DFC members to work with your people to build useful and essential skills. You refuse.... Why?where did i refuse? I have never interacted with you except in this thread? granted i'm not a big fan of yours right now due to your conduct but if we had a chance to work things out I'm sure it would be fun if they WANTED to do it. Last time i checked anyone can go to the TA. You seem to think i control my guys??? Thats not the way our squad works... Maybe you should hang out with us some and understand how we function...that may open your eyes We don't send a bill. neither do we :D
A leader looks out for the welfare of those under him. He strives to provide the best means for them to grow and excel. He places emphasis on continuous improvement. He leads by example. He doesn't draw attention to himself. <---- When you are doing this stuff, you're a leader.if guys arent having fun they will leave...my guys are having fun...once again im confused as to how i have control over others...i am the C.O. of a squad who does certan things...guys who like it join...if they don't they leave...when i stop having fun ...i'll leave...fairly simple really.
My regards,
Widewing
Look I guess you are trying to offer a peacepipe with the training thing and i'll pass it on to the guys...I'm sure we all can learn something new all the time. I don't buy into this game like you do...I grew up air force....My granddad was a major in the us 8th air force and flew b17s in ww2 (their is a tribute to him on the BoP website)....my dad flew phantoms in vietnam...My uncle flew air force 2 when reagan was president so he flew bush around. I flew in c130s and space A all over europe. Until I found out as a senior in high school that i had muscular dystrophy, I was slated for the Air Force Academy...already had the senators recommendation and just had to pass the physical...I couldn't.
This is not real flying. It is VIRTUAL flying. It is as close as I will get...granted. But you cant even judge and control speeds well enough to easily formation fly in here...what you are pushing on folks to learn is all about gaming the computer modeling (ie. you are teaching them to become great VIRTUAL pilots)...it doesnt truly mimic REAL air combat (no offense to HTC because it is as good as it gets and I love it) but TRY and understand why a rationale person may not want to commit alot of time to become great at what is still just a video game. Everyone wants to be good enough to have fun...try to accept that for most that is enough. As a parallel try to imagine something that you do for fun..golf, tennis etc. I guess you can get trainers and go to clinics and become uber at that but the majority like to smoke cigars and hang with their friends while doing something. The 900+ on each night who aren't going into the TA must feel competent enough to have fun for what spare time they can spare from their day.
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Your own words:
You're the "button pusher" here. This is how you entered this discussion:
My advise is to stop digging.
So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM??? Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would. If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all
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So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM??? Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would. If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all
Again, you said:
Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best
Now if you want to revise and extend your remarks, by all means.
I didn't say you "refuse" to let anybody learn anything. You're negative comments about ACM and skill in this thread are pretty clear. It's not much of a leap to assume that the apperent attitude would somehow come across in you leadership.
Here are some gems from you recent posts "crybabies and idiots"(first post in this thread)"tool and lying"(to widewing) "whining corp and true dweebs"(the trainers) "anklehumped by a proud pothead"(bongaroo) "anklehumper"(me)...and you want an apology?
hmmm...um NO. And I also believe I will decline your request to shut up.
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i like turtles!!!!!
and DFC members are secksay!!!!!!!!
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LAWLZ...
Freaking epic.
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I am pretty sure everybody knows which side of this argument I am on.
Everything that I would say about this subject has allready been said (many times) but there is one thing I would like to chime in on.
Please bear with me here...
There was a time in the past where I allowed a few players to get under my skin. It took years, but eventually my opinion of them was so tainted that I made it a point to try and ruin their fun. I went out of my way (at times) to make sure that if I could I would rain on their parade and spoil their enjoyment.
During a huge drama last year I ended up giving that, and my actions, a lot of thought. I pondered it for a few days and decided that I needed to walk away from the situation. When I realized what I was doing and what I had become I felt that separating myself from it all was the best choice. I was so torn from my walking out on something I cherished so much that I made a few more bad choices out of sideways anger/frustration. (As most of y'all know I am far from being a fully actualized human being, but I do try)
I have had some time to reflect on it all, and I can now say I was 100% wrong and out of line in my attitude and behaviour towards these select players, and my leaving was the best thing I could have done. I should never had allowed my own personal standards and ethics to be lowered no matter that I thought I was doing the "right thing" at the time. For a person that was in the position of responsibility that I was in, this never ever should have been allowed to occur.
I regret all that had happened and if those players read this post, please accept a heartfelt apology if you ever felt that I was "out to get you" or that I in some way impeded on your fun. It was not my place to do so, I was out of line, and I am very sorry.
I hope they continue to enjoy this game we all love so much, and I wish them the best.
That really is the bottom line isn't it? Enjoyment?
When all is said and done this game/hobby is about everybody having fun.
Be you a two weeker or a multi-decade flying pilot, we are all here to enjoy ourself and have a good time. We would not be here if we didn't enjoy this game, so right there we have something in common. We should focus on the similarities and not the differences.
Not everybody has fun in the same way. We will not all enjoy the same things. (I for one have never been that keen on flying a bomber, but many love doing just that) But we all agree that we enjoy "playing airplane" (as a lady I know calls my flying AH) and I think we should strive to strengthen the commonalities and not focus on the differences.
There is a middle ground to it all, and we but have to strive to find it.
I have a great amount of respect for many of the posters in this thread. It is my hope they decide to take the higher ground and they do not fall into the same pitfalls that I did.
(and might I add that believe it or not, the people that have been arguing in this thread are a lot more alike than they want to admit, and hold many of the same opinions)
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Murdr and Widewing, I may not be in the DFC anymore but I am more than willing to assist you if Falcn decides to put up a group to dogfight. Just one of you could take on Falcn's whole squad with 1 elevator, 1 stuck flap (halfway down), 1 aileron and no rudder and he'd still not be willing to see any point but his own.
Until HTC institutes zone ENY, the big squads are here to stay. I hope zone eny does come, it will make the whines from the gang banging map rollers rise to a crescendo that could drown out Times Square on New Years Eve.
As I've said in the past, whatever you want to do (Furball, take bases, GV, buff, or a mix of all the above) just be good at what you do. No one needs a squad that large...
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Murdr and Widewing, I may not be in the DFC anymore but I am more than willing to assist you if Falcn decides to put up a group to dogfight. Just one of you could take on Falcn's whole squad with 1 elevator, 1 stuck flap (halfway down), 1 aileron and no rudder and he'd still not be willing to see any point but his own.
Until HTC institutes zone ENY, the big squads are here to stay. I hope zone eny does come, it will make the whines from the gang banging map rollers rise to a crescendo that could drown out Times Square on New Years Eve.
As I've said in the past, whatever you want to do (Furball, take bases, GV, buff, or a mix of all the above) just be good at what you do. No one needs a squad that large...
Are you saying that size doesn't matter? :D
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Guess I'm just dense and confused.
Don't all of us, or at least the great majority, pay $20 a month to be here?
Don't we all agree to play by the rules as defined by HTC?
Don't we all accept that those rules, as loose as they may or may not be, constitute "fair"?
Now, my confusion: Who am I, or anyone else, to decide what is the "Right" interpretation of those rules? I find it difficult enough to define right from wrong for myself, let alone others. If someone says furballs are wrong, and there are enough people on that agree, he can find his type fight. If one wishes to only fight those of his own "quality", then he is stating the difference to be clear enough to be identifiable, and thus to find those of his own kind to play with.
Obviously I could go on for pages in this logical progression, but needn't. The bottom line is AH is here for all of us. The only thing I consider wrong (if within the rules of HTC), is the aggressive, personalized attacks on others by those most loudly asserting the requirements of honor and respect. The CH 200 snipping, whining, insults and all that are one thing, but for those of us, who consider ourselves to have thoughtful ideas that should be expressed here, to stoop to those levels is an insult to what we supposedly stand for.
Again, as in my first post, if it weren't for all the people and styles of play attracted to AH we wouldn't have a place to be so silly in. Differences of opinion are fine, even great, but personal attacks are not only useless, but damaging to the game so many enjoy.
I don't "own" it, you don't own it,
Wether truth, honor, integrity.
Dashe
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well said Dashe
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Dashe,
The underlying problem is in the evolution (or devolution as the case may be) of the game play. Underneath it all lies a very simple truth, the original "intent" was a recreation of WW2 era air combat. This predates AH and is constant during the development of the entire genre. This is not a value statement toward any particular style of combat...simply the recognition of combat as a primary goal. As skills evolved the entire focus was seeking challenging combat.
This has changed drastically over the last 2-3 years. Just a look at the LWA map at almost anytime will show unbalanced play on all 3 sides as the game focus has moved away from its historical roots. I'm not going to blame any one person or side but will use falconwing since he's "here" in this thread. 1st and foremost he was never really recognized as being a "good stick", either here or back in AW, all his posturing is just that. While its unfair to trash any group of 100+ its hard to find more then a few quality sticks in the BOP. Basically all three countries have similar cadre's and its unfair to label one side however collectively they have dropped the overall quality of game play IMO.
So the underlying truth is simple. Quantity over quality is becoming the winning equation in the LWA (and even in the MWA at times). As for the DFC vs BOP...wont ever happen. Falcon is bombastic not stupid...
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Is it not HTC that has shaped the AH world that exists today? They provided the means for all of the things that some folks constantly gripe about to exist. It appears that there is a small vocal group here on the boards with the assumption that if there are more than X amount of folks affiliated then they are unhealthy for the game. No one has yet to address the fact that even though there are affiliated groups of 32 man squads, not all members are on at the same time. I think the hordes that are being griped about are mostly the result of planned missions and not a single squad. There needs to be some documentation, not just hearsay. To blame your unhappiness with AH on anything other than yourself is silly.
Quality over quantity? I am not sure where this came from, but it's basic assumption is absolutely wrong. I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. It is possible to have both. I feel that I have both in my own squad. Who are some of you to decide how well I know or need to know my own squad mates? A weak argument at best gentleman.
I know the roots of this game were in WWII Aerial combat, and it will always be integral to the success of the game. If folks take a look at the front web page, they will see that HTC has moved this away from a strictly dogfighting game. It is now the Premier World War II Combat Experience (see graphic below). Well that encompasses a heck of a lot more than just good 1 v 1 aerial fights. Which by the way, I love just as much as the next pilot. Unfortunately a lot of folks are relating their inability to create or find a good fight is because of someone else's poor gameplay or lack of skills. The players are operating within the framework of what is provided by the game creator. I highly encourage you all to see what you can change in your approach to the game so it becomes enjoyable for you again. To expect others to do it your way, just is not going to happen. The only consistent thing in life is change. Well Aces High is changing on a daily basis. You can roll with it, or you can fight it. In the end, change will win.
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/welcome.gif)
<Salute>
Way
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So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM??? Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would. If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all
Well thats THREE major counterdictions so far in this thread .
I think Its time for Falconwing to go back to the minor's (or quake) . I find his posts detrimental ,and his leadership quality is very poorly based .
A person with Real leadership quality's would also promote wellness of the arena's (All of them) , sponser Training and advancement thru All aspects of the game (Dogfighting, Bombing,attack/jabo, ground vehicles, ship warfare ,ACM, Events and special types of the game ... and now last but not least the very reason most of us are here. "For Our Love and Respect of History surrounding World War 2
Do you have any one in that huge mega squad Teaches History ???
Widewing (whom you have singled out) Is a History major and has devoted many hours to training and teaching here (For Free) . I should get college credits for how much he taught me while we were in the =Ghosts= . <S>
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I am pretty sure everybody knows which side of this argument I am on.
Everything that I would say about this subject has allready been said (many times) but there is one thing I would like to chime in on.
Please bear with me here...
There was a time in the past where I allowed a few players to get under my skin. It took years, but eventually my opinion of them was so tainted that I made it a point to try and ruin their fun. I went out of my way (at times) to make sure that if I could I would rain on their parade and spoil their enjoyment.
During a huge drama last year I ended up giving that, and my actions, a lot of thought. I pondered it for a few days and decided that I needed to walk away from the situation. When I realized what I was doing and what I had become I felt that separating myself from it all was the best choice. I was so torn from my walking out on something I cherished so much that I made a few more bad choices out of sideways anger/frustration. (As most of y'all know I am far from being a fully actualized human being, but I do try)
I have had some time to reflect on it all, and I can now say I was 100% wrong and out of line in my attitude and behaviour towards these select players, and my leaving was the best thing I could have done. I should never had allowed my own personal standards and ethics to be lowered no matter that I thought I was doing the "right thing" at the time. For a person that was in the position of responsibility that I was in, this never ever should have been allowed to occur.
I regret all that had happened and if those players read this post, please accept a heartfelt apology if you ever felt that I was "out to get you" or that I in some way impeded on your fun. It was not my place to do so, I was out of line, and I am very sorry.
I hope they continue to enjoy this game we all love so much, and I wish them the best.
That really is the bottom line isn't it? Enjoyment?
When all is said and done this game/hobby is about everybody having fun.
Be you a two weeker or a multi-decade flying pilot, we are all here to enjoy ourself and have a good time. We would not be here if we didn't enjoy this game, so right there we have something in common. We should focus on the similarities and not the differences.
Not everybody has fun in the same way. We will not all enjoy the same things. (I for one have never been that keen on flying a bomber, but many love doing just that) But we all agree that we enjoy "playing airplane" (as a lady I know calls my flying AH) and I think we should strive to strengthen the commonalities and not focus on the differences.
There is a middle ground to it all, and we but have to strive to find it.
I have a great amount of respect for many of the posters in this thread. It is my hope they decide to take the higher ground and they do not fall into the same pitfalls that I did.
(and might I add that believe it or not, the people that have been arguing in this thread are a lot more alike than they want to admit, and hold many of the same opinions)
WmLute :salute I agree with you wholeheartedly even though we differ often on opinions...
My family became a Wii family this Christmas...it has been great fun playing Wii tennis etc. The Wii approximates tennis better then a joystick etc but the bottom line is it really doesn't come close to real tennis...now for someone with a handicap or an elderly perons it is probably a great way to compete and have fun. there are all sorts of little tricks you can do (wrist flicking, body position etc) to get better and better shots and serves. We have fun with it. Now could we read the tip pages and become uber Wii tennis players and host tournaments and invite friends over and etc but jeez we are having fun muddling through it...laughing alot along the way...
Now suppose some guy came over and he had "mastered" the Wii tennis and was destroying all of us because he had learned all the little tricks and techniques...cool i guess...but what if he then began belittling our "skill" because we didn't feel the need to do the same and get power serves every shot etc....well that would be the last time we would want to have him over. I would feel he missed the point of a game and had gone to a level we just didn't need to deal with...not for how much time we want to pu tinto Wii
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Is it not HTC that has shaped the AH world that exists today? They provided the means for all of the things that some folks constantly gripe about to exist. It appears that there is a small vocal group here on the boards with the assumption that if there are more than X amount of folks affiliated then they are unhealthy for the game. No one has yet to address the fact that even though there are affiliated groups of 32 man squads, not all members are on at the same time. I think the hordes that are being griped about are mostly the result of planned missions and not a single squad. There needs to be some documentation, not just hearsay. To blame your unhappiness with AH on anything other than yourself is silly.
Quality over quantity? I am not sure where this came from, but it's basic assumption is absolutely wrong. I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. It is possible to have both. I feel that I have both in my own squad. Who are some of you to decide how well I know or need to know my own squad mates? A weak argument at best gentleman.
I know the roots of this game were in WWII Aerial combat, and it will always be integral to the success of the game. If folks take a look at the front web page, they will see that HTC has moved this away from a strictly dogfighting game. It is now the Premier World War II Combat Experience (see graphic below). Well that encompasses a heck of a lot more than just good 1 v 1 aerial fights. Which by the way, I love just as much as the next pilot. Unfortunately a lot of folks are relating their inability to create or find a good fight is because of someone else's poor gameplay or lack of skills. The players are operating within the framework of what is provided by the game creator. I highly encourage you all to see what you can change in your approach to the game so it becomes enjoyable for you again. To expect others to do it your way, just is not going to happen. The only consistent thing in life is change. Well Aces High is changing on a daily basis. You can roll with it, or you can fight it. In the end, change will win.
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/welcome.gif)
<Salute>
Way
No question that HTC has abandoned its roots and lost a very high % of its initial core player base. A high % of vets are here simply because they have no other viable option. I agree completely that the framework of the game allows for all thats happening. The end result being an ever lowering level of both skill and game play.
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Now, my confusion: Who am I, or anyone else, to decide what is the "Right" interpretation of those rules?
dashed,
I read your first post as effectively "I don't care what HTC's rules are, I would like to see them changed since they can be circumvented anyways"...
As far as communications, we have a lot of options. I would like to see a Squad name search to locate by squadron name, and other options. I know that in the Claim Jumpers we have a standard text and vox channel, but would like to see the "squad" channel allow all in squadron, not just the wing. But, you must also remember that having more than about a dozen squad members on a channel causes a number of difficulties, mostly many different Ops going on at the same time, social chat by some while others are in a tight situation requiring coordination, and such.
Putting limits on Squad size can be circumvented, in any case. People would simply build closed missions between "different" squadrons, or devise other systems.
Especially since this comment by HT was already pointed out:
2nd if anyone else tells me they have a 70 member squad, I think I will just eject them. There is no such thing as a 70 person squad in AH.
Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.
Obviously I could go on for pages in this logical progression, but needn't.
How's this for a logical progression? A squdron, in the game, and in real life is a pre-defined unit. Obvously players are free to ignore the definition, and work around it to fit their own devices. But then to come back and ask HTC to grant game mechanics designed and reserved for a "squad" to something different than a squad? That is flawed in and of itself. There's no reason to go to a discussion of "quality of gameplay" topics, because the answer is right there in HiTech's quote.
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Quote from: hitech on March 18, 2008, 12:36:04 PM
2nd if anyone else tells me they have a 70 member squad, I think I will just eject them. There is no such thing as a 70 person squad in AH.
Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.
HERE HERE !!!!!
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The end result being an ever lowering level of both skill and game play.
Hello Humble,
This is perhaps the only thing that I disagree with you on. Maybe it is because I have always behaved respectfully and I am trying to improve my in game skills, I assume that most others are doing the same. I may be wrong on this assumption. I completely understand your viewpoint, please bear in mind that my AH history only goes back about a year and a half compared to your multiple years.
<Salute>
Way
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This is not real flying... It is VIRTUAL flying... But you cant even judge and control speeds well enough to easily formation fly in here... you are teaching them to become great VIRTUAL pilots... it doesnt truly mimic REAL air combat... just a video game.
...and?
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just like private vox channel 169 in KOTH and you and the others that were tuned to it, so a rule was imposed to prevent chatting in VOX on anything except channel 101 for everyone....we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas.... You never flew another KOTH after that day if I recall when the KOTH CM's witnessed who all was tuned to the channel.....I will bury that ancient history now, for it was a while ago......
Falconwing,
I am not going to name every individual who was on the film, I do remember and can easily name 3 to 4 individuals who were tuned to the channel,
I never claimed you cheated, I never imposed you cheated, and I never called you a cheater........ I simply was talking why rules are imposed and added, basic reasoning is for better and fair game play.....
If you grant me access to upload 30 gigs worth of AH films, I will gladly let you review them and witness/view the KOTH film in question, and when time permits, I will PM you the almost exact dated koth and the postings made in the KOTH BBS Forum regarding such incident....... there was no claims of cheating made, there were however an assumption of possible ability to present players still flying with valuable information.....and to add this was the START /Beginning to the reason for adding the VOX 101 rule.....
hope that calms you down a bit....
and yes, I have from the beginning on a consistent basis scanned all vox tunable channels and privately presented my finidings to the KOTH CM's, so they could deal with it..for almost 6+/7+ years now........
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...and?
And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya
So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....
Most would view folks with that sort of behavior to be...well.......?
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Falconwing,
I am not going to name every individual who was on the film, I do remember and can easily name 3 to 4 individuals who were tuned to the channel,
I never claimed you cheated, I never imposed you cheated, and I never called you a cheater........ I simply was talking why rules are imposed and added, basic reasoning is for better and fair game play.....
If you grant me access to upload 30 gigs worth of AH films, I will gladly let you review them and witness/view the KOTH film in question, and when time permits, I will PM you the almost exact dated koth and the postings made in the KOTH BBS Forum regarding such incident....... there was no claims of cheating made, there were however an assumption of possible ability to present players still flying with valuable information.....and to add this was the START /Beginning to the reason for adding the VOX 101 rule.....
hope that calms you down a bit....
and yes, I have from the beginning on a consistent basis scanned all vox tunable channels and privately presented my finidings to the KOTH CM's, so they could deal with it..for almost 6+/7+ years now........
If you are saying that I was NOT cheating then you don't need to waste your time...I appreciate your clarification...I have NEVER cheated at anything and I do take that personally....One of the few things BoPs as a squad have never been accused of is "spying" or "hacking" or "score padding".... :salute
I have never been addressed or spoken to about any issue of violating rules by the CM staff/KoTh staff so again i plead ignorance as to why I am brought up in such a discussion at all....if i ever violated a rule it was obviously something I was not aware of and was not brought to my attention...i would have corrected it immediately
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If you are saying that I was NOT cheating then you don't need to waste your time...I appreciate your clarification...I have NEVER cheated at anything and I do take that personally....One of the few things BoPs as a squad have never been accused of is "spying" or "hacking" or "score padding".... :salute
I have never been addressed or spoken to about any issue of violating rules by the CM staff/KoTh staff so again i plead ignorance as to why I am brought up in such a discussion at all....if i ever violated a rule it was obviously something I was not aware of and was not brought to my attention...i would have corrected it immediately
Falconwing,
I was wrong for posting your name, and only your name, inregards to a matter that has been long forgotten by most......
I am not trying or wanting to rehash any old news......I will stop right here with it, and offer you my apology,
I simply used a certian event that I could quickly recall, and out of ill thought named only you, when you was just one of many, and to where it was not a matter of being dressed down by a CM, or talked to.
I will drop it now, with the statement that I only used the incident as an example to why rules are imposed or put inplace.to help balance and keep fair gameplay....
:salute
edit: and the reference to channel 169 was one of the channels that others have been caught on, as well as 144, 182, 136, etc etc..... sorry but most people ever caught that I can quickly remember was 169
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Thank you for the apology and I apologize if my ill feeling towards Widewing and Murdr made you feel that I was attacking the entire Training Corp...I was not. Since lumping all BoPs together and attacking us upset me, i should have been aware that the same would be felt by the Training Corp :salute
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And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya
So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....
Most would view folks with that sort of behavior to be...well.......?
Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.
The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. So learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. Its just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? You didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?
That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squads are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?
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Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.
Exactly...they play well enough to have fun..if they didn't they would actively seek help or quit.
The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. Oh no you didn't..widewing and others suggest readin ww2 strategy books to improve gameplaySo learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. yup :aokIts just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? Actually no...I was a natural and started at about 1600. after a few years i realized the next step would be memorizing games and openings and I lost interest and moved on ( i also saw what the guys ranked above looked like/acted like and to me they didnt have a life outside of chess)...seemed gamey and not about natural ability....see my theme here??? Instead I played speed chess because it was harder to game against..hard core chess guys said we shouldn't..."ruined our game" You actually have picked a remarkably good parrallel to the debate here :cool:You didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?
That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squadsyou mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys? are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?
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my ill feeling towards Widewing and Murdr made you feel that I was attacking the entire Training Corp...I was not. Since lumping all BoPs together and attacking us upset me, i should have been aware that the same would be felt by the Training Corp :salute
I didn't "attack" you or your squad either. Did I switch to a much harsher tone when you threw the trainers into the discussion? Darn right I did. I repost HiTech quotes as they relate to current topic ALL THE TIME (just checked, 6 pages of search returns of keywords hitech and quote by me). Who was involved in the original discussion that I'm quoting from is incidental. If your perspective is so narrow that you assume me reposting a HT quote that you were somehow a part of is an attack on you or your squad, that is your problem, not mine. And if you want to be snippy based on that flawed assumption....I do bite back.
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Who cares if you can't really play tennis. What does that have to do with Wii tennis? People play Wii tennis because its fun, they learn and practice to be the best they can be so that they can beat Dad at it, or their big brother. I'm sure there are many tournaments available as well as clubs should you or your family like to.
Exactly...they play well enough to have fun..if they didn't they would actively seek help or quit.
The same with Aces High. Comparing the game to a real life pilot or war is about the stupidest thing you could do. Oh no you didn't..widewing and others suggest readin ww2 strategy books to improve gameplaySo learning to be a better cartoon pilot is the same as learning to play Wii tennis better. yup Thumbs UP!Its just satisfaction at playing a game well. You mentioned college chess matches. Your going to tell us you didn't practice? Actually no...I was a natural and started at about 1600. after a few years i realized the next step would be memorizing games and openings and I lost interest and moved on ( i also saw what the guys ranked above looked like/acted like and to me they didnt have a life outside of chess)...seemed gamey and not about natural ability....see my theme here??? Instead I played speed chess because it was harder to game against..hard core chess guys said we shouldn't..."ruined our game" You actually have picked a remarkably good parrallel to the debate here coolYou didn't try different moves for different situations? You didn't want to play the best you could each time you sat at a table? Even if you lost, as long as it was a good battle of wits it was still fun and challenging, right?
That's all people are looking for in this game as well. Mega squadsyou mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys? are like that guy you mentioned that knows all the tricks in Wii tennis, you said so yourself, would it really be fun playing against him all the time?
Well I guess we are all done discussing this. You now just want to twist my words in stead of taking them as I meant. You have to bring in the name calling problems you seem to have with some others into it as well.
All I got from your last post is you gave up on chess because you were happy to be mediocre, well good for you. I would be disappointed if I sat down across the table from you looking to enjoy a good match and instead only found a mediocre player they had no intentions of wanting to better himself.
I'm not a "furballer", I'm not a "landgrabber" in not a member of the DFC, I'm just a guy who looks forward to spending a little time fighting against others playing a game. Even tho I'm not very good at it it's still sad to see how the player base hasn't even been able to keep up with my meager skills. In the old days I sucked, now I'm average, in a few more years if the skill level continues to drop as it has of the last couple of years I'll be awesome.
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you mean hard core furballer/memorize plane speeds/insult folk on ch 200/practice virtual moves that wouldn't work in RL guys?
1) I don't have any plane speeds or turning radii memorized. I know a lot of great sticks don't. But they certainly have learned through trial and error or observation lots of important plane characteristics. Nothing wrong with studying up on the numbers, especially for scenarios or fso's when you know what will be opposing you and what ride you have been assigned.
2) Nothing wrong with hard core furballing. Players who excell in large furballs will generally best a player who avoids them handily. Why would you have a problem with those types? (oh, I know, you can't beat them so you avoid them :D )
3) What moves wouldn't work in RL that your complaining about now?
4) Sorry if 200 gets to you. You can always turn it off ya know? Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and all.
:rolleyes:
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And you can be the best Wii tennis player in the world and you can't really play tennis or even have true concept on how to serve, volley or topspin a real ball......it is what it is...sorry to be the one to break it to ya
...and?
So the majority of folks play Wii tennis for fun and don't form secret Wii tennis uber clubs and run around and challenge folks to tournaments and accuse them of being skilless....
The majority of folks play Wii Tennis for fun. What makes it fun is playing against someone else; the competition.
If Wii Tennis consisted of a brick wall, on a screen, and required that you hit the ball against the wall and back to yourself, how much fun would that be?
Just like in "real life," not much fun.
However, if you have an opponent of equal or greater ability, suddenly the *point* of the game, be it on a screen or behind the local high school, is suddenly realized. You employ your best tactics against your opponent with the aim of defeating him. Win or lose, that is the fun part. If you win, you feel satisfaction. If you lose, you take something away from the experience and become that much better as a player.
In this particular case, the "club" in question has a primary aim of encouraging new and veteran players, alike, to enhance their understanding of ACM. For those who choose to learn, the result is an increased ability level. From 30,000ft, this increases the overall skill level of the player base and, by default, creates an environment better suited to achieving that key ingredient of fun; competition.
And, as we learned with your Wii example, above, that competitive spirit is what makes games like this fun - be they real or virtual.
The unfortunate difficulty associated with maintaining that sort of balanced, fair and fun gameplay is that it can be shattered very quickly by, ironically enough, a small number of players.
Since tennis is such a great example (thanks), I'll simply suggest that you imagine yourself playing a great match against a friend behind your local high school.
Youre having fun - the skill level on both sides is near equal. For every mistake, you learn something and for every success, you gain satisfaction. Its a blast.
Then, out of nowhere, two dozen hackers show up, trample your friend, lock you in the court and see fit to restart the match, from scratch, with you on one side and all 24 of them on the other.
How much fun do you think that is for either side? Is it really competition? Is anything being learned? Frankly, I'd rather be the single than a faceless drone amongst 23 others, but even being the single... how much fun is that after awhile?
Not much. Pack your gear and go try to find another good match. The hackers have taken over this court - no top spin required.
With that, of course, we rotate full circle, once more...
"...and?"
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I'm a bit confused by all this "gamey ACM" stuff? I'm not in the top 10% of the dueling crowd and anyone who's ever flown on 171 or ride along gets an occasional dose of :furious :furious :furious because invariably the disconnect between my thoughts and the planes actions annoy the bejesus out of me. That being said I can fly anything with a spinning prop and a gun and give you some type of a fight. The vast majority of ACM occur well withing the confines of the "doghouse" and rarely on the bleeding edge. In fact the true secret to flying the SBD, A-20 etc is in keeping the fight away from the "edge of the envelope". Very little about ACM has to do with bleeding edge performance...
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Folks, this is the "Wishlist" forum. It is here for anyone to be able to ask for features they would like in the game. HiTech and/or Pyro will ask for any clarifications they need in understanding what the user has requested.
This thread has gone so far off course it is rather rediculous. In the future, please remember the purpose of this forum. If you cannot provide something constructive and positive to the content in the "Wishlist" forum, then please just move along.