Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MachFly on April 14, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
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You know when a newbie logs onto aces high for the first time and asks, "what is the best airplane?", and we list a hole bunch of stuff spit 16, 262, p-40, jeep, ect...
Now my question to you is what do you consider the best fighter?
For thous of you who are going to ask me a "fighter for what?", a fighter for aces high in general (which would probably be the most common thing you fly).
As for me....well...I don't really know, as you may have already noticed in this 7 page thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,259564.0.html) I am stuck beet 2 fighters, the spit 14 and F4U-4.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,259562.0.html
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,259562.0.html
no, no, that's dogfight. I'm talking about a fighter. For example you might want something that carries a large amount of ord. and still be able to fight after it drops them.
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"Best" is always tough to define.
No doubt that the -4 is the "best" prop plane in the game given its performance and ability to fill multiple rolls (ATA, ATG).
The Spitfire Mk16 is clearly the "best" ATA fighter from an ease-of-use standpoint.
For me? I find that the "best" fighter is the 109K4. It suits my gameplay style just about perfectly and has enough quirks (read: "personality") to keep me interested. The 190A5 is a very close second but, alas, is woefully outclassed in the LWMA. If I could condition myself to stop relying on power-to-weight ratios when fighting in the vert, I'd love to give the Jug's a fair shot.
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Any cartoon plane I fly in.
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Me-163, followed by the Me-262.
If we restrict it to prop fighters, then it's the Tempest.
If we restrict it to unperked aircraft, then it's the Spitfire XVI.
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-4 hog
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If forced to give an answer, I'd say: (163) - Tempest - 109K-4
But in the end, there is no best.
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F4
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Arguably the F4U4.
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P-47N.
Of course, it is far from the best in typical low altitude MA furballs. But it absolutely rules the thin air and thus can always hold the high ground and attack from advantage. It can range with anything. It is reliable, was relatively easy to fly, has good visibility, is armed to a fare-thee-well, and so rugged that it was difficult to shoot down even if you managed to get an even break with one. Thus, under actual "war" conditions, faced with level bombers escorted by P-47Ns at 30K+, a belligerent nation could choose between attempting interception and fighting the Jugs in their playground, or simply allowing their infrastructure to be reduced to rubble.
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Depends on the circumstance. If it's about what I like to fly, the P-38. If there's a furball at the front steps of the base, then the Spit VIII (the Spixteen is dead to me).
If it's about what I fear encountering the most, probably the La7. I hate those things on every level with every fiber of my being. Heaven help the pilot if he bails and I see his chute. :t
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If we're talking unperked multi role aircraft I'm going to go with the Ki84.
Good performance
Good ord load out
Great views
Decent guns
Give it a try. Just don't expect it to be a good cherry picker, it doesn't like going 460+ mph
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Give it a try. Just don't expect it to be a good cherry picker, it doesn't like going 460+ mph
lol
Ki-84 does not compress..................... ...........it just falls apart
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Air-to-air...Spit XVI
Multi-role, F4U...
Not including perk planes BTW....
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spit16? i think p38 better than spit16 at this part
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P-39Q but i would prefer a P-39D-2 unfortunitly they stuck me with a mutt p-400's version of the p-39D-1.
Why do i like the 39?
It gives me wood every time i fire that cannon,is it the best cannon? no... but its MY cannon none the less.
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F4U-4
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Just goota love f4u4 lovers in DA, and in MA they fly any other variant except the 4.
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Anyone thats made out of wood!
:noid
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F-15
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Now my question to you is what do you consider the best fighter? . . .
a fighter for aces high in general
N1K-2 for most versatility.
There are plenty of fighters that are faster, but those are generally less maneuverable.
There are plently of fighters that bring more ords to the table, but the N1K makes up in cannon for only carrying 2 bombs.
It has better range (especially with drop tank) than some of the 'point defense" type fighters (spits and LAs).
It basically gives you a chance to do whatever needs to be done in the "broader game". A well balanced "jack of all trades" in my opinion.
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"In the weeds" I love a Seafire or Spit 8.
My "standard" ride of late is the P-51D
If I'm cranky and wanna cheese people off it's a Tempest FTW
:furious
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Best overall is probably the F4U-4. Other planes may climb better, or turn better, or accelerate better, have better weapons, etc.... but the -4 really doesn't have any weaknesses. It's great at pretty much everything.
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Just goota love f4u4 lovers in DA, and in MA they fly any other variant except the 4.
That's 'cause you just can't go wrong with a Hog. :D
However while I think the -4 is the best, I actually prefer the 1A. She feels more stable when you burn the left wing down and leave the right, (IMO, burn left down to half of what you have in the right. I like 25% and 50% in FSO or when I have a long flight ahead, or 1/8 and 1/4 in the Mains/for short-range flight, respectively. Once I have my wings burned I switch to main tank until I need the wings) and I like having the extra gas in case my main tank gets holed. If I can break away and drop to cruise the wing tanks can almost always get me to the nearest friendly base.
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The best fighter is the Spitfire Mk XIV. Yeah, there are some planes that turn tighter, fly faster, fly further, climb faster, roll better, carry more ord, or have more gun firepower... but nothing can compare when the total packaged ability is taken into account for air to air battles. The F4U-4 is not an easy plane to fly and it takes far more experience and knowledge to fly as well it the aircraft is able.
The Spit16 can all things very well. The worst thing about the Spit16 is its range... and even then it can fly fo 30 min or so.
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I personally think the -4 is the best fighter, well I think the whole series of hogs are the best fighters. :D
Once you gain the experience to fly them, then they are the best.
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As far as my own personal preference, I am stuck in a 3 way tie, between the P-38J, the P-47D-11(D-40 maybe if we need ords) and the Bf-109G6/G14. If you look at my scores, I alternate between these three every few months, and which I pick rides only on my mood that month.
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I think that in a 1vs1 fight, and with equal pilots, the F4U-4 is superior to the Tempest. But at main arena altitudes, going fast, picking, extending, just generally killing as much and as quickly as possible, I go with the Tempest. ;)
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id have to say my fav to fly is Spit IX. For a big furball/horde def Spit V or VIII. and just for kicks cause no ones mentioned it and i like spits (hard to notice isnt it) best top fighter in game is...... XIV* :P im far to timid in it and shes not the most stable of gun platforms.
*let the nay-sayers rightfuly nay-say
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In Aces High the only thing that matters is how the plane suits the pilot.
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only thing that matters is how the plane suits the pilot.
True
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viz. the long list of virtuosos with huge kill streaks in C202s, Stukas, A6M2s, 190F8s, etc.
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spit16? i think p38 better than spit16 at this part
Given 2 inexperienced pilots, the Spixteen wins every time. Between 2 experienced pilots, it's a lot closer.
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Spit16 has a better roll rate, a higher speed with wep (without wep it is very close), a better climb rate, better acceleration, and can reverse a heck of a lot faster than a 38J/L can (and much better than the G can).
Hammer's charts state the Spit16 has more damage output until's cannons are gone, while I agree on paper, I disagree in practice.
That said, I wouldn't want to see the Spit16 perked. Fighting them with a good pilot at the controls is like swinging two bats on the way to the plate.
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
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for me personaly
Air to Air - F4U-1A
Dump Truck - F6F
Best of Both Worlds - F4U-4
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Best for what?
Planes are like tools, each has something that it is good at. Some are more specialized (A6m = turn)
Some are faster (la7) others have more armament (N1k2).
However if you want a decent plane, that is fair at most things, easy to fly, and easy to learn basic ACM in, its hard to beat the Spitfire 8. Its not uber in any way compared to its other spit brethren. It can't outturn a spit 5, nor outrun or outclimb a spit 16. But it does all things fairly well. In capable hands it is truly a jack of all trades.
Now if you truly want the "best of the best" your talking perk planes for the most part. Good luck accumulating the points to fly those late war monsters.
Exceptions would be the spit 16, la7, 109k4, p51.
All fast, all very capable killers if flown well.
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"Given 2 inexperienced pilots, the Spixteen wins every time. Between 2 experienced pilots, it's a lot closer." - noob in spit16 and noob in p38, spit wins (p38 noob will try and turn with the spit16), both pilots are exp. p38 wins..as i see it, nothing close. p38 will get alt advantage and keep it that way, will bnz spit16 pilot, and will not fall into getting gready and follow him down in a turn fight.
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"Given 2 inexperienced pilots, the Spixteen wins every time. Between 2 experienced pilots, it's a lot closer." - noob in spit16 and noob in p38, spit wins (p38 noob will try and turn with the spit16), both pilots are exp. p38 wins..as i see it, nothing close. p38 will get alt advantage and keep it that way, will bnz spit16 pilot, and will not fall into getting gready and follow him down in a turn fight.
The P-38's top speed is *1mph* faster than the SpitXVI right on the deck. The P-38 is slower than the SpitXVI's from 1-10K. The P-38 has basically the same speed or a little slower up until 20K. The P-38 is decidedly inferior in climb from the deck to 30K.
So the P-38 cannot expect to build an E advantage over a co-E or superior-E SpitfireXVI, cannot turn with the SpitXVI, and cannot have any expectation of being able to disengage reliably below 20K. IOW, the P-38, like numerous planes in the set, is indisputably double-inferior to the SpitXVI and at a decided disadvantage when engaging them below 20K.
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Yeah I'd put my money on the 16 without much hesitation.
The A/C has no significant weakness while the 38 has plenty.
But... we've already had that thread, have we not?
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Yeah I'd put my money on the 16 without much hesitation.
The A/C has no significant weakness while the 38 has plenty.
But... we've already had that thread, have we not?
Many people apparently think of the SpitXVI as another slow plane that turns well, that will easily be avoided by most any lesser turner who b'n'z's and keeps their speed up. I until I actually checked the stats. Just educating the public my friend. :)
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"The P-38's top speed is *1mph* faster than the SpitXVI right on the deck. The P-38 is slower than the SpitXVI's from 1-10K" - P51 has better top speed than the p38 at all altitudes. P51 can't catch the P38 in a pure climbing fight, simple as that. Same for the spit16, it can't catch the p38 in a vertical fight. IN equal conditions , p38 can built alt advantage over the spit16.
"annot turn with the SpitXVI" - who said about turning anything? Why would you want to turn with the p38 when the spit16 is the opponent, i just go up, turn only to adjust shooting position, nothing more.
I pray for a good p38 driver to see this topic.
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"The P-38's top speed is *1mph* faster than the SpitXVI right on the deck. The P-38 is slower than the SpitXVI's from 1-10K" - P51 has better top speed than the p38 at all altitudes. P51 can't catch the P38 in a pure climbing fight, simple as that. Same for the spit16, it can't catch the p38 in a vertical fight. IN equal conditions , p38 can built alt advantage over the spit16.
"annot turn with the SpitXVI" - who said about turning anything? Why would you want to turn with the p38 when the spit16 is the opponent, i just go up, turn only to adjust shooting position, nothing more.
I pray for a good p38 driver to see this topic.
Klauss:
The SpitXVI enjoys a ROC climb advantage of 1000fpm or so up to 20K. This is huge. The SpitXVI also retains E better under Gs. From memory, when I last tested zoom climbs, starting at the deck and 400mph, a P-38 zoomed to 7000feet, compared to the SpitXVI's 6000 feet and some change. Less than 1000 feet difference=less than 333.33 yards=within guns range. Below 10K, the P-38 cannot expect to out-run the SpitXVI in level flight, much less build an alt advantage in any sort of climb. Thus from a Co-E start, there really is no conceivable way for a P-38 to build an E advantage over the SpitXVI below 20K. Granted, the P-38 has the singular advantage of torque-less operation, this will be a help if the P-38 is lucky enough to engage a SpitXVI from a position of initial advantage, however, it makes much less difference Co-E than many assume, perhaps because torque effect in AHII seems rather mild to begin with.
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the problem is that i don't start zooming with you at 0 feet from me...or 100 feet..understand? that will never happen. Let's go to DA now, recort the fight, post it here. I may be so wrong.
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What is your call-sign?
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I like the f4u set myself!
F4U-1= higher eny plane that has uber flappen
F4U-1A= good all around speed, turning ability, and just plain sexy
F4u-1D= pretty much same as 1A but has more ords
F4U-1C= cannons...need I say more?
F4U-4= monster of the skys
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Klauss, in 10 minutes in DA? is that ok?
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I'm there
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If we're talking unperked multi role aircraft I'm going to go with the Ki84.
Good performance
Good ord load out
Great views
Decent guns
Give it a try. Just don't expect it to be a good cherry picker, it doesn't like going 460+ mph
Ki84 is my favourite plane but I definitely don't consider it the best fighter. It's up there in my top 3 though.
As someone mentioned, it's because this plane suits me. I like being attacked by other planes while im at an e-disadvantage. Ki can take a pounding with its armour and it's a great ride for 1 turn reversals and the quick firing cannons.
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P-39Q
:aok
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I'm there
So, what were the results?
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So, what were the results?
From a co-e merge at 15K, Klauss did a very credible job of flying the P-38 and had me a bit worried there for a minute. However, the torqueless stability of the P-38 at very low airspeeds was just barely *not* enough to allow it to leave the SpitXVI from co-e. After the P-38 had to go nose down the first time, the main problem in flying the SpitXVI was not over-running the P-38 in the vertical, due to the Spit's very high acceleration, climb, and E retention while pulling Gs.
The P-38's torquelessness does indeed put it above single-engine planes with similar weight/thrust ratios in the vertical, and well-flown, it would be formidable opponent for *any* plane it caught at an E disadvantage. However, so would the SpitXVI, I daresay. I will also point out that the combat initiated at 15K and was climbing after the initial merge, where the performance difference between the Spit and 38 is not quite so severe as it is at more typical MA alts of 10K and below. The Spit was also somewhat handicapped by a loose nut on the control stick... ;) Will post the film at my convenience if anyone is interested.
I <S> Klauss and wish him all best. In a less lop-sided match-up he surely would have won.
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So the P-38 cannot expect to build an E advantage over a co-E or superior-E SpitfireXVI, cannot turn with the SpitXVI, and cannot have any expectation of being able to disengage reliably below 20K. IOW, the P-38, like numerous planes in the set, is indisputably double-inferior to the SpitXVI and at a decided disadvantage when engaging them below 20K.
I'm glad there is an ace like you to tell me this. Just to think that I've been flying the P-38 incorrect all this time against Spitfires, like turn fighting against them and winning.
Here is a tip for those P-38 drivers flying against Spitfires. The Spitfire only has one speed range where it will out maneuver a P-38 and that's at medium speeds. P-38 has an advantage at higher speeds and a slight advantage at low/stall speeds due to the no torque of the twin engines and the most gentle stall characteristic of any fighter in the game.
But then I really don't expect those with very little or no flying time in the Lightning to know such things such as how to fly and fight in one.
ack-ack
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I'm glad there is an ace like you to tell me this. Just to think that I've been flying the P-38 incorrect all this time against Spitfires, like turn fighting against them and winning.
Pilot and not plane Sir. There is a difference between turn performance and picking a better angle than the other pilot. You know this, do not be coy about it.
Here is a tip for those P-38 drivers flying against Spitfires. The Spitfire only has one speed range where it will out maneuver a P-38 and that's at medium speeds. P-38 has an advantage at higher speeds and a slight advantage at low/stall speeds due to the no torque of the twin engines and the most gentle stall characteristic of any fighter in the game.
The Spit can clearly *sustain* a better rate and radius of turn. It is a mystery to me what you mean by saying the Lightning turns better at "high speed", since the limit on high speed turning is the blackout anyway, unless an airplane has high speed elevator/aileron woes, which the SpitXVI does not. Perhaps you mean the Lighting dumps excess speed more easily and can get down to corner velocity more quickly if both airplanes are very fast, however, this can be compensated for by piloting, as can the P-38's stability advantage at very low speeds.
But then I really don't expect those with very little or no flying time in the Lightning to know such things such as how to fly and fight in one.
ack-ack
Your tendency to argue through invective rather than logic is both unattractive and unconvincing.
You are correct I don't have much time in the Lightning. OTOH, I flew the 109K4 for the first time in many months a few tours ago, met Helbent at 15K in a 1v1 that was not interrupted for once. We fought all the way to the deck, and finally won. Now, Helbent is *clearly* the more experienced and skilled pilot, so the difference must have been the plane, the 109 K-4, which is double-superior to the P-38, although not to the extent of the SpitXVI. This inclines me to believe that a SpitXVI winning a co-E fight with a P-38 is not a fluke. However, I would agree that of the 3 Late-War "Pursuits", the Lightning is the best dogfighter by a wide margin. A single-engine ride this inferior in thrust/weight and wing loading to a SpitXVI would stand virtually no chance Co-E 1v1 between equal pilots, whereas the P-38 has a trick or two up its sleeve.
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Klauss... that spixteen will beat you in the vertical, no question.
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I`m new to this but I tend to flip between the Ki-84, 109K4 and the 190D9.
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Here is a tip for those P-38 drivers flying against Spitfires. The Spitfire only has one speed range where it will out maneuver a P-38 and that's at medium speeds. P-38 has an advantage at higher speeds and a slight advantage at low/stall speeds due to the no torque of the twin engines and the most gentle stall characteristic of any fighter in the game.
surely the XVI has a big advantage in acceleration in a low speed fight? meaning that you can transition back from a turn fight to an E-fight using the acceleration and climbrate. plus at slower speeds the rollrate of the spits improves immensely. not sure if the 38 bleeds E badly during roll, but it seems to be fairly easy to get a pursuing 38 out of phase using roll. ymmv :)
edit: as a pure fighter XIV gets my vote. anything that gets me a K/D over 10 must have some magic going on :D
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not sure if the 38 bleeds E badly during roll, but it seems to be fairly easy to get a pursuing 38 out of phase using roll.
Most of the 38 jocks fly the J, which rolls rather poorly. The L, on the other hand, has one of the best high speed roll rates in the game.
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Most of the 38 jocks fly the J, which rolls rather poorly. The L, on the other hand, has one of the best high speed roll rates in the game.
He was specifically refering to low speeds, where the P-38L rolls just as badly as the P-38J.
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Oh, understood. But the L still rolls a little better at 200mph. ;)
When I think about it, it's very significant that the 38J is the most popular P-38, while the XVI is the most popular Spit. One faction chooses its favorite variant for its skins and history, the other for its dominating performance.
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Fw190A5. Enuf said. :aok
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AKAK just needs to come out of retirement and show you all how it is done. :noid
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AKAK just needs to come out of retirement and show you all how it is done. :noid
I've posted many a write up and films over the years showing how to fight Spitfires of all types and scenarios in a P-38. One just has to look for them. Murdr also has posted many write ups and films showing the same thing.
It's not worth my time to come out of 'retirement' for one day.
ack-ack
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It's not worth my time to come out of 'retirement' for one day.
My goading skills require upgrading . . .
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The best fighter for nubes it clearly the P51D, it has the best KTD ratio for nubes as it allows them to escape when their skills won't kill them through safely and it packs a reasonable punch; it is my favorite non perk interceptor as it can fly faster than any other non perk plane in the game at most altitudes (bomber altitudes). My favorit dogfighter is either the spit mk16 or the Fw.190D. The best attack fighter is the P47 as they can carry a respectable bomb load, and once light on bombs and fule it makes a decent dogfighter and with those 8 .50 caliber brownings ONE mistake and my opponet is a flaming wreck!!! :salute
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The best fighter for nubes it clearly the P51D, it has the best KTD ratio for nubes as it allows them to escape when their skills won't kill them through safely and it packs a reasonable punch; it is my favorite non perk interceptor as it can fly faster than any other non perk plane in the game at most altitudes (bomber altitudes). My favorit dogfighter is either the spit mk16 or the Fw.190D. The best attack fighter is the P47 as they can carry a respectable bomb load, and once light on bombs and fule it makes a decent dogfighter and with those 8 .50 caliber brownings ONE mistake and my opponet is a flaming wreck!!! :salute
Several unperked planes have a better k/d ratio than the P-51D, including the P-38J and Ta-152H. The D9 consistently has a higher k/d than the P-51D, and is for the most part better at the P-51D's usual b'n'z game.
What the P-51D has is the "name".
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Several unperked planes have a better k/d ratio than the P-51D, including the P-38J and Ta-152H. The D9 consistently has a higher k/d than the P-51D, and is for the most part better at the P-51D's usual b'n'z game.
What the P-51D has is the "name".
Using those numbers isn't very accurate and really doesn't say anything. It has already been proven that the K/D of planes like the P-38J are skewed by a small number of experienced P-38 drivers. The P-51Ds numbers are skewed due to the large amounts of new and timid players that fly it.
ack-ack
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Using those numbers isn't very accurate and really doesn't say anything. It has already been proven that the K/D of planes like the P-38J are skewed by a small number of experienced P-38 drivers. The P-51Ds numbers are skewed due to the large amounts of new and timid players that fly it.
ack-ack
And here comes the look at me and my plane stats in the Midwar rant. We get it akak, you pwn in midwar. We got tired of hearing about it a long time ago.
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If all the new players jumped in a D9 or PJ, they would have terrible k/d ratios.
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And here comes the look at me and my plane stats in the Midwar rant. We get it akak, you pwn in midwar. We got tired of hearing about it a long time ago.
Hey --- your ignorance is showing . . . might want to zip.
Late war tour 110 3-01-09 to 3-31-09
Model Kills Deaths K/D Ratio
P-38J 5372 3723 1.4425
(unless you are also attempting to goad -- in which case, yes AKAK, take that!)
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Assuming the pilots are equal, the Mk XVI will win.
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If all the new players jumped in a D9 or PJ, they would have terrible k/d ratios.
For the P-38 this is no doubt true. For the D9, this is false, because the D9 does 90% of what a P-51 does but does it better. Better top speed at typical MA alts, much better climb and accel, better roll rate. What the P-51 does better than the D9 basically comes down to turning, but as this is not a great strength of the P-51 vs. anything *except* a Fw, this is not such a great matter. If the P-51 did not have the "name" the Dora's usage in the same role would be greater.
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Ta152 hands down. Just can't get into very long flat turning gambits.
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For the P-38 this is no doubt true. For the D9, this is false, because the D9 does 90% of what a P-51 does but does it better. Better top speed at typical MA alts, much better climb and accel, better roll rate. What the P-51 does better than the D9 basically comes down to turning, but as this is not a great strength of the P-51 vs. anything *except* a Fw, this is not such a great matter. If the P-51 did not have the "name" the Dora's usage in the same role would be greater.
To a new player, the FW has some odd high g stall characteristics, which usually means him auguring in. If you stick with the fw a few time you'll figure out what you did wrong. 51 flys well fast all the time.
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And here comes the look at me and my plane stats in the Midwar rant. We get it akak, you pwn in midwar. We got tired of hearing about it a long time ago.
Oh please sweet cheeks, I know you're still upset at the arse kicking I gave you when i still flew but it's time you let it go. All that anger is going to upset your little stomach.
My example was just to show that K/D can't be used to determine how effective a plane is because the stats can be easily skewed. I know that you don't have the skill to skew the stats like some others can but maybe in time you'll be able to my little sweet cheeks.
ack-ack
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I like the La-7.
It can hold its own against pretty much anything in the game.
It may not be "statisically" the best fighter in the game, but it still ain't no slouch.
Its biggest drawback is its guns.
Like on some other planes, their biggest asset IS their guns.
Lovin the Lala!! :rock
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F6F, it may be less agile, slower, and ugly, but if it gets on your 6 you better pray he misses for your life. Not to mention you better aim correctly or you're going to regret it when it turns around after you've finished your ammo and it clocks your tail.
Its taken more than just 20mm and 30mm to knock it down, I got shot twice with 30mm in the back and once on the wing and it may have left a huge hole, but i flew back as if it was brand new. Its a flying Abrams Tank.
-FYB
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F6F, it may be less agile, slower, and ugly, but if it gets on your 6 you better pray he misses for your life. Not to mention you better aim correctly or you're going to regret it when it turns around after you've finished your ammo and it clocks your tail.
Its taken more than just 20mm and 30mm to knock it down, I got shot twice with 30mm in the back and once on the wing and it may have left a huge hole, but i flew back as if it was brand new. Its a flying Abrams Tank.
-FYB
Single burst of 4x .50 cals is enough to remove the wing or tail of a Hellcat. Aim for the weak points, like the wing root area or tail section and they go down pretty easily.
ack-ack
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Best fighter depends on many factors, like altitude for example. Best overall fighter is the F4U-4. It can stall fight with an FM-2 in the weeds, E-fight with a Spit16 or La-7 and out-performs the Spit14 at the Spit's best altitude. There are fighters, that under very specific circumstances are as good or even better. However, none can match the F4U-4's performance from sea level to 30k.
376 mph at sea level, 453 mph at 26k. Smaller turning circle than the Spit16.
It can carry 2k in bombs, plus rockets. With two drop tanks, it has excellent endurance. Finally, it also operates from carriers. The only limiting factor for the F4U-4 is its pilot.
My regards,
Widewing
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Single burst of 4x .50 cals is enough to remove the wing or tail of a Hellcat. Aim for the weak points, like the wing root area or tail section and they go down pretty easily.
ack-ack
Yeah but most who don't know that :noid , well, they... shoot at the wing tips... and the center... Means one swift turn after they run out and BANG, 1 kill for me. :D
-FYB
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F6F, it may be less agile, slower, and ugly,
F6F less agile? Never used flaps in life?
Slower, at level speed, but in a dive?
Ugly? I have a feeling you think the 410 is ugly as well
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F6F less agile? Never used flaps in life?
Slower, at level speed, but in a dive?
Ugly? I have a feeling you think the 410 is ugly as well
I never said it didn't have many advantages; and, well, maybe its kind of pretty...? :D
-FYB
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Best fighter to get kills in? Or to learn in?
To get kills in/achieve #1 Rank: P-51D, easily.
To Train in? P-39Q Why? Because you have to know ACM, have good SA, and be a good shot, all at the same time, to fully succeed in the P-39Q.
:salute
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Hi BnZs :)
Would like for u to post the film of ur fight with Klauss' (P38) vs ur Spit. Thx.
My choice of planes:(1) F4U-4 (2)P38L
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I never said it didn't have many advantages; and, well, maybe its kind of pretty...? :D
-FYB
Its a beaut.
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http://www.mediafire.com/?wyzdossggbm (http://www.mediafire.com/?wyzdossggbm)
I will say something though...it is a crying shame more fighters with twin counter-rotating props were not built. The torquelessness *greatly* increase vertical possibilities for a given weight/thrust ratio.
Hi BnZs :)
Would like for u to post the film of ur fight with Klauss' (P38) vs ur Spit. Thx.
My choice of planes:(1) F4U-4 (2)P38L
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I've just watched the movie, saw my mistake, and i knew it was that, when u chased me up, when i had about 200mph left, u had 100mph left, i waited for 1 sec or so, and i thougt to myself "I'll just roll over, he's probably on his belly rolling over or stalling hits nuts off", damn i was wrong :lol, when i rolled started rolling over i had about 170mph and you hat 50-60mph, you were going to stall/drop in the next 2 seconds, i got overconfindent in my plane, or underestimated your plane for it's climbing ability. As far as i see it, the movie showes nothing, i'm still a noob in the P38 as far as that plane goes, some better sticks in that plane would have done better i'm sure. Why did u flew off imediatly after you got your victory? Do you think that 1 round is enough to establish a mini-rule in your head? that spit16 can beat the p38? I'm still for the P38.
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P-38Q!!!
Dang it. :furious
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I think you tested the proposition, whether or not a P-38 can leave a SpitXVI in the vertical from a co-e state, about as well as anyone could.
At the time you let go of the climb, the P-38 57mph, the Spit still had 127mph. It can be held nose-up until at least 80mph, without loosing it. This is what a large thrust/weight advantage will do for you, an advantage that only grows for the SpitXVI at low MA altitudes, rather than the 15-20K we were engaging at.
What you underestimated was not so much the SpitXVI's climbing ability but it's remarkable ability to hold E through maneuvers, which is the difference between how a P-38 and a SpitXVI stack up in a zoom climb test vs. an actual fight. Against a D9, a plane with an excellent climb rate and zoom but awful E-retention under Gs, the P-38 would have easily won I think.
I've actually done this particular experiment quite a few times, albeit mostly from the other side, no need for multiple re-iterations (especially when its about time for my afternoon snooze. :) ). We can debate whether this advantage to the climber vs. the zoomer is correct,(as opposed, for example, to Bob Johnson's account of his mock fight with a SpitIX) but it seems to be a fact of life in AHII.
I've just watched the movie, saw my mistake, and i knew it was that, when u chased me up, when i had about 200mph left, u had 100mph left, i waited for 1 sec or so, and i thougt to myself "I'll just roll over, he's probably on his belly rolling over or stalling hits nuts off", damn i was wrong :lol, when i rolled started rolling over i had about 170mph and you hat 50-60mph, you were going to stall/drop in the next 2 seconds, i got overconfindent in my plane, or underestimated your plane for it's climbing ability. As far as i see it, the movie showes nothing, i'm still a noob in the P38 as far as that plane goes, some better sticks in that plane would have done better i'm sure. Why did u flew off imediatly after you got your victory? Do you think that 1 round is enough to establish a mini-rule in your head? that spit16 can beat the p38? I'm still for the P38.
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.....achieve #1 Rank: P-51D, easily.
Really? How many times have you achieved #1 rank in a p51D? For that matter, how many times has anyone achieved #1 rank with the 51D as their primary ride?
To get kills in
How many kill do you have in a 51D? What's your life time K/D in a 51D?
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This thread needs a Brewster.
It's not here yet but when it comes, it will rule the skies... at least for my two weeks trial period :)
The Brewster will be the Susan Boyle of the AH :rock
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BnZs, i've documented myself about the spit16 a bit, i always thought it's TnB plane and that's about it, i mean, it has just good turning radius, i was so wrong :lol, That plane is a beast. Maybe as i said, some better P38 pilot to motivate why is the P38 better, i just know that me, being a noob pilot in that plane, could not do the best of what that plane could. Anyway, good fight, i always need to remind myself how other planes are better in some situatuions :aok
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Really? How many times have you achieved #1 rank in a p51D? For that matter, how many times has anyone achieved #1 rank with the 51D as their primary ride?
The P-51D seems to be neither more nor less capable of achieving #1 fighter rank in it than many other LW Planes...
Good weapons, enough ammo for a lot of kills, decent views and enough speed to get you safely home most of the time, if you avoid gettign low & slow in a enemy rich situation ;)
But now I got curious and looked up the #1 fighters from the last two years:
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9295/clipboard01l.jpg)
(First plane mentioned has more kills)
A very few times, there was some doubt about the true main ride for fighter mode when the culprit got actually most of his kill in attack mode. I such cases I selected the most typical "scoremonger" ride from the list. For example Temp & La for Pacerr... ,)
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It has been my experience that the P47 is the best all-around fighter in game.
It has the performance to handle the perk rides (Tempest, F4U4) and has
the added bonus the ability to carry a sizeable amount of ord in the fighter bomber role.
Nothing better then watching a dot in the distance dive down to pick seeing it is a Tempest
and diving onto it's 6 whilst theTempest Pilot thinks he has impunity :O
Also a side note: I've taken the BPony up a few times and I'm wondering
how one could get shot down in it if flown smartly? (not timid,smart)
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looked up the #1 fighters from the last two years
"#1 pilots" has nothing to do with pilot rank\score. These are not real pilots. These guys operate in the dream world of the toolshedder. This is a fantasy land right next to the Twilight Zone. :lol
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Oh please sweet cheeks, I know you're still upset at the arse kicking I gave you when i still flew but it's time you let it go. All that anger is going to upset your little stomach.
My example was just to show that K/D can't be used to determine how effective a plane is because the stats can be easily skewed. I know that you don't have the skill to skew the stats like some others can but maybe in time you'll be able to my little sweet cheeks.
ack-ack
Nice baiting with the sweet talk but I don't swing that way. Maybe try down in San Fran, I'm sure you'll find the company your after. :P
And I appologize that I've grown tired of you always trumpeting your "but what about me skewing a planes K/D?" garbage. :rolleyes:
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"#1 pilots" has nothing to do with pilot rank\score. These are not real pilots. These guys operate in the dream world of the toolshedder. This is a fantasy land right next to the Twilight Zone. :lol
Maybe... but my posting was a comment on a discussion about #1 rank and the planes used for it, not about "skillz" ;)
Also a side note: I've taken the BPony up a few times and I'm wondering
how one could get shot down in it if flown smartly? (not timid,smart)
I'm afraid I will never get good enough to ask myself that kind of questions :lol
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Because you have to know ACM, have good SA, and be a good shot, all at the same time, to fully succeed in the P-39Q.
:salute
That axiom is true for all planes.
ack-ack
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A very few times, there was some doubt about the true main ride for fighter mode when the culprit got actually most of his kill in attack mode. I such cases I selected the most typical "scoremonger" ride from the list. For example Temp & La for Pacerr... ,)
Exactly, Vanscrew's tour 90 he has about 600 kills in fighter mode, about 300 in a 51D. Even if he had all his 51D kills in fighter mode, this makes up just 50% of the tally. To boost his fighter stats, he had significant time in the Tempest, 262, -4 Hog, and C-Hog.
I'm not saying garnering the #1 rank in a D stang cannot be done, but it's not "easy" like 1plus44 claims. I guess it would be less difficult in Shawk mode: Go to base in attack mode, kill acks, die, return in fighter mode for the vulch.
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I'm not saying garnering the #1 rank in a D stang cannot be done, but it's not "easy" like 1plus44 claims. I guess it would be less difficult in Shawk mode: Go to base in attack mode, kill acks, die, return in fighter mode for the vulch.
Whenever I try such a thing, the base is already taken when I return in fighter mode :(
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Whenever I try such a thing, the base is already taken when I return in fighter mode :(
Shawk and his gang go to a base that is not currently under attack and "start a fight". So, at least initially, there is no intention of taking the base. Pacerr relies on the tempest when in fighter mode and frankly, he sucks. Shawk is a good stick though. :aok
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Nice baiting with the sweet talk but I don't swing that way. Maybe try down in San Fran, I'm sure you'll find the company your after. :P
And I appologize that I've grown tired of you always trumpeting your "but what about me skewing a planes K/D?" garbage. :rolleyes:
Oh please, you're just looking for a fight where none exists because you're just a little poser looking for attention. Re-read my original post again, better yet, have someone with some intelligence read it to you. They will clearly see and hopefully be able to explain it in simple words to you so you can understand that I wasn't 'bragging' about skewing the stats.
I am amazed that someone as stupid as you has managed to live this long.
ack-ack
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I don't like you calling me out about tooting my own horn for the 12th time so I'm going to call you names to try and hurt your feelings
ack-ack
I can't help but see this:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/speedy420/1237436885305.jpg)
Sorry if the truth hurts so much.
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I can't help but see this:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/speedy420/1237436885305.jpg)
Sorry if the truth hurts so much.
Never expected you to look like a chick with a mustache. Explains why you have such a woody for me.
ack-ack
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Good one! Your such an internet badass! :rolleyes:
(that was sarcasm if you are too dense to notice)
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Hello BnZs :)
Thx much for ur quick response to my film request (BnZs vs Klauss), enjoyed ur film greatly especially how nimble the spit is. Ur staying above the 38 was/is the smart thing to do. TY :aok
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I can't be the only one who thinks the F6F is a good all around fighter.
I'm not saying its the best but even after trying the F4Us and spits its still what I've made most of my kills in and I don't know, I guess it just gives me that warm fuzzy feeling deep inside.
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F6F is a very good all round fighter, just not as good as the F4U.
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In my opinion, the F6’s greatest advantage is its lack of a real disadvantage. The F6 can easily out-turn any plane slower than it, and is faster than any plane that can turn better. It has a great gun setup, it holds energy, stability, and not only does it absorb damage, it easily shakes it off. I know of many times fighting spitfires when I lost ½ a wing or two halves and I was still able to out turn and fight the other plane. It also has a great time adjusting to almost any fight. Against something like a Spitfire, it can easily hold its energy and BnZ. If you want to dogfight you can easily put down flaps, hit WEP and just mix it up. I really have no fear stall fighting a Zero on the deck if I need to, or entering a 3-4 v 1. Against an F4U, the F6 has a large advantage in the vertical. Against a great F4U pilot, the F6 will lose in a luffbery, but as soon as you put the nose above the horizon the F4 will just struggle for air.
When I fly the F6 I know that I always have some sort of advantage over the other plane.
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The F6 can easily out-turn any plane slower than it, and is faster than any plane that can turn better.
I've heard this said for several planes in the game. Is there a fighter this isn't true for?
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I've heard this said for several planes in the game. Is there a fighter this isn't true for?
Sure, the F6F among them.
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I've heard this said for several planes in the game. Is there a fighter this isn't true for?
yup P51
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I've heard this said for several planes in the game. Is there a fighter this isn't true for?
Its not even true for the F6F.
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I just realized that I read that sentence incorrectly. The F6F out turns planes slower than it? I'm assuming F6Fraven meant to say faster planes.
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I just realized that I read that sentence incorrectly. The F6F out turns planes slower than it? I'm assuming F6Fraven meant to say faster planes.
He did, but he is wrong. There are several planes that are both faster than the F6F and turn better than the F6F.
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I think its absolutly hilarious when I'm flying the F6F and I run into one of the older spits or hurricanes with the 8 .303 machine guns. Even after getting a perfect shot on me and opening up on me it just sounds like I'm flyng through rain or something and I come out unscratched. Must really piss those guys off.
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109-K4 gets my vote, but this is from a fair-to-middling pilot. My ACM needs a lot more work, so I opt for a plane that has one superior advantage (rate of climb in the K4) over others. The K4's speed on the deck (I am an unabashed run-K :)) allows me to egress if needed. There are only a few dogged individuals that can make the extended chase.
Since practicing some rudder work, I've become a lot more aggressive in this ride at slow speeds. I've outturned spits on the deck and popped up for a good tater-whacking when they try to pull the fight into the vertical. Agent360's films are gold <S>, and I've found myself intentionally giving an opponent my 6 just to lure them into a fight (something I would've never done 2 months ago). The massive engine also gives the K very high marks for building E when needed.
The obvious limitation is the tater-cannon itself. It requires a good deal of patience to get the right shot. But this has an advantage as well: If you can accurately lob shots with this thing, using a bank of .50s becomes like using a laser sight.
Personally, I think putting the largest possible engine in the smallest possible plane was a darn good idea :)
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LA7-F4U-4-Spit9
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Personally, I think putting the largest possible engine in the smallest possible plane was a darn good idea :)
Vought had that same idea in 1938. :D
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Still... in AH2, no other fighter is as capable as the Spit 16. It does everything very well. The one thing it is often over-looked as is a superb ground attack aircraft. It can carry 1k or ord in 2/250lb bombs and a single 500lb bomb. Not bad at all. It accelerates like a banshee, turns with the best of them, it can go verticle with the best of them, it can dive quite well, it can roll with any 190, and it has ample firepower,... what cant it do as a fighter or fighter-attack aircraft? Some with say the S[it15 is superior "up high" (and it is at 25k alt) and the Spit14 is faster (and it marginally is), but all the Spit16 has to do is treat the Spit14 like it is a P51D and the fight is over especially if the alt is less than 18k.
No, it isnt a 350mph aircaft on the deck, but it hold E well enough to run with most aircraft for quite awhile.
Obviously, no one playing AH2 has ever flown one, but I have a gut feeling (as well as many other players) that the Spit16 is far more capable in AH2 that it ever was in the real deal. I cant imagine taking off the wing tips are going to make THAT huge of a different in roll rate to the point of only being seceond in roll to the Fw190x, and a very close second at that. But... HTC seems to be able to shrug off anyone challenging them on specifics.
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Oh I got a good one:
The one that just killed you.
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I cant imagine taking off the wing tips are going to make THAT huge of a different in roll rate to the point of only being seceond in roll to the Fw190x, and a very close second at that. But... HTC seems to be able to shrug off anyone challenging them on specifics.
Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that it wasn't like that in real life, which by the way was how it really was with the Mk XVI's roll rate. Of course, if you can find any information to the contrary, you are more than welcome to post the information to support your claim.
ack-ack
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I know I said P47 a while a go, but now, for me , it is a tie between the La7, and the P47. The P47 is a good solid bird when I fly it, it can take a hit and still dish it out. While the La7 is fast and those cannons are actually quite good despite low ammo capacity, but can't take as much damage and still fly. But still I think you guys are going in the wrong direction, if you get someone on your six for the first 5 secs of a fight but can out turn them, then it dosen't matter if they can kill you in 3 secs. I think both planes offer a good combination of all the required aspects.
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As far as stats go, the F4 Corsair series has teh most potential in terms of guns, power/weight, durability, flaps and jsut about everything. . .but in the end, its really the pilot that makes a plane good or bad.
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F4U-4 hands down
Very high speed, great maneuverability if flown right, 6x .50cals, reasonably durable, nice ord carrying capability, and its carrier capable.
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I can't remember, but I'm sure i chose the Spitfire. Its not the plane, its the guy who flies it. I was in MA and decided that i had gone on bomb runs to much and needed some reminding of how to fly a fighter.
I don't know what happened that day, but i was dogfighting at 13k in my Spit16 against an F4F, and you'd imagine this would be easy sense the plane wasn't exactly a high speed machine. Yeah, no. We kept fighting until for some reason, we both ran out of ammo, fuel and were both missing a bunch of parts, in the end, we decided it be best to go and crash land at our bases. We were dogfighting for 28 straight minutes going up, left, down, right, center, back, shoot, hit, and miss.
That guy was one hell of a dogfighter, or i just suck nuts at flying fighters, not doubting that.
-FYB
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I can't remember, but I'm sure i chose the Spitfire. Its not the plane, its the guy who flies it. I was in MA and decided that i had gone on bomb runs to much and needed some reminding of how to fly a fighter.
I don't know what happened that day, but i was dogfighting at 13k in my Spit16 against an F4F, and you'd imagine this would be easy sense the plane wasn't exactly a high speed machine. Yeah, no. We kept fighting until for some reason, we both ran out of ammo, fuel and were both missing a bunch of parts, in the end, we decided it be best to go and crash land at our bases. We were dogfighting for 28 straight minutes going up, left, down, right, center, back, shoot, hit, and miss.
That guy was one hell of a dogfighter, or i just suck nuts at flying fighters, not doubting that.
-FYB
Never underestimate the F4F. She's a much better ship than a lot of people give her credit for.
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Never underestimate the F4F. She's a much better ship than a lot of people give her credit for.
Now i try to keep as far as possible from that thing, it almost ripped me into Swiss cheese.
-FYB
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Now i try to keep as far as possible from that thing, it almost ripped me into Swiss cheese.
-FYB
They are almost helpless if you don't play to their strengths.
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Easily the F4U-4 by a good margin. Plane that has everything plus like all F4s more gamey tricks then any other ride with it's uber flaps. Plus carrier ops to boot, doesn't get any better/easier.
<S>...-Gixer
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They are almost helpless if you don't play to their strengths.
Basically, don't try to turn with it. Unfortunately, the F4F and FM-2 are also REALLY easy to get sucked in by: They're small, have a pretty quick (and very tight) initial turn, and are damn hard to hit (and even if you DO it takes some really concentrated firepower to put one down) so it's really easy to get frustrated and over-commit. The only REAL weaknesses are the low top speed so she can't catch or run on anything and only poor (F4F) to average (FM-2) sustained performance in the vertical.
That said, even pinned down the Wildcat can be tough to finish off. In the Tunisia FSO my squadron fought some very good 109G-2 sticks to a draw despite our F4Fs being at a starting disadvantage in altitude (~5000-6000ft altitude) and numbers (2-3 aircraft).
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Basically, don't try to turn with it. Unfortunately, the F4F and FM-2 are also REALLY easy to get sucked in by: They're small, have a pretty quick (and very tight) initial turn, and are damn hard to hit (and even if you DO it takes some really concentrated firepower to put one down) so it's really easy to get frustrated and over-commit. The only REAL weaknesses are the low top speed so she can't catch or run on anything and only poor (F4F) to average (FM-2) sustained performance in the vertical.
That said, even pinned down the Wildcat can be tough to finish off. In the Tunisia FSO my squadron fought some very good 109G-2 sticks to a draw despite our F4Fs being at a starting disadvantage in altitude (~5000-6000ft altitude) and numbers (2-3 aircraft).
You don't have to flying a fighter with a smaller turning circle to out-maneuver the F4F-4 and FM-2. You merely need to have a better turn rate and use the vertical. The F4F-4 is especially vulnerable as it lacks the power to sustain its turn rate once it runs out of altitude. At that point, it tends to wallow, with its turn rate being unimpressive.
Wildcats do best when they have enough altitude to be aggressive, and you must be aggressive.
My regards,
Widewing
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U4 hands down. Superior at every alt., and great guns.
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You don't have to flying a fighter with a smaller turning circle to out-maneuver the F4F-4 and FM-2. You merely need to have a better turn rate and use the vertical. The F4F-4 is especially vulnerable as it lacks the power to sustain its turn rate once it runs out of altitude. At that point, it tends to wallow, with its turn rate being unimpressive.
Wildcats do best when they have enough altitude to be aggressive, and you must be aggressive.
My regards,
Widewing
Pretty sure I mentioned the vertical performance... :P
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<S> Saxman, I agree with your last 3 posts, F4F's are very good birds when flowen properly and can absorb a good bit of damage. I was fighting one once in a P47 using slashig attacks and it seemed like I couldn't nock them down with my zone convergence, so I landed durring a lul and set my guns to point convergance and had much better luck, and when flying off a carrier the F4F if my best fighter.
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Like other slow fighters, the F4F and FM-2 face a serious problem, in that 90% of the fighters they encounter can disengage at will. A P-38, for example, can toy with a Wildcat, being able to get lateral and vertical separation with ease.
The only chance the Wildcat (F4F-4 or FM-2) has against the P-38 is to have a significant altitude advantage, which it can convert into speed to pin down a lower, slower fighter. However, it must get the kill before the P-38 gets the E states equalized.
My regards,
Widewing
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Obviously, no one playing AH2 has ever flown one, but I have a gut feeling (as well as many other players) that the Spit16 is far more capable in AH2 that it ever was in the real deal. I cant imagine taking off the wing tips are going to make THAT huge of a different in roll rate to the point of only being seceond in roll to the Fw190x, and a very close second at that. But... HTC seems to be able to shrug off anyone challenging them on specifics.
I play battle of Britain 2 - wings of victory and it says the spitfire can not do a -G dive as the engines fuel system is fed by a carburetor is gravity feed so when you do a -g dive the fuel goes back up the fuel system and the engine starts to cut out. so they done split S's etc to then dive down...not sure if it applies to the spit16? but if it is, and was implemented in the game it would give them a bit of trickier time??
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Spit I yes. This was fixed in later models.
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I don't really have a favorite. For a while I was a student of the 190 series, and then I stuck to the Ki's. I tried using Navy fighters for a while but abandoned all but the FM2 for everything except close range, down and dirty fighting in the weeds or on the waves. I have taken quite a few SpitXVI's with it, and I even recall nicking a 163 with it once.
But the planes I really found myself using ALOT before I kinda just egressed from flying for a while (account is deleted, haven"t payed in months) were the P47, the Ki's, SpitIX (only when I couldn't decide, I used to despise spitfires), the Ta152H, and when I'm feeling frisky, the P-39. I love the guns on the P-39, it just feels fun. Plus it sounds better than alot of planes, which I think seem to use the same engine sound. But that might be due to similar engines.
As long as I was in a good fighting position, the 152 was a very comfortable bird to fight in. I actually tended to prefer it for low level dogfights for a while, and truth be told some of my experience from practicing in 190's carried over well. It can roll like nobody's business, let me tell you. A story I often tell about this bird, and any other that has a hub mounted MK108, is when I landed a tater up the tailpipe of a Yak at D800 down on the deck. I was grinning so hard I had to adjust the headset.
On a side note, I don't really like the P-51. I tried flying it at high alt, but it just felt sluggish. The P-47 definitely responds better way up there.
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In terms of flying in AH, I'd say that the spit 9 has to be up there, Why it's not flown more often by the spit guys is beyond me, it's a great little plane that holds it's own. Has to be more fun flying it than the usual 16's and 8's
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Spit5 is also a blast. IMO it is the best Spitfire. It goes over 300mph, has very good cannons, turns on a dime, accelerates good, dives OK, climbs OK. Hell it rivals my 38 in my 2nd most favorite.
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I may have missed it, but i am surprised that no one has said the Tempest. If i remember rightly the Tempest usually holds a better k/d than even the 262. Granted i don't think i would hold up in many 1 vs 1 fights, but as a hit and extend fighter i don't think there are many equal. The guns, climb, speed and acceleration are awesome.
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for straight up fighting i'd take the Spit 9 or A6M5, not many planes can trouble them unless they runaway and bring back two friends.
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I may have missed it, but i am surprised that no one has said the Tempest. If i remember rightly the Tempest usually holds a better k/d than even the 262. Granted i don't think i would hold up in many 1 vs 1 fights, but as a hit and extend fighter i don't think there are many equal. The guns, climb, speed and acceleration are awesome.
Tempest's have high K/D because they are largely used for picking... Down low, speed is excellent, as is acceleration. However, up at 10k, the Tempest has many potential enemies that out-perform it. At 10k, it ranks 8th in speed (among prop fighters), with the La-7 and 109G-14 only about 1 or 2 mph slower. The 109K-4, F4U-4, Spit14, 190D-9, P-51B, P-51D and P-47N are all faster.
Some of us have flown comparison duels between the Tempest and the F4U-4, La-7 and Spit14. All of these defeat the Tempest with relative ease in a Co-E, Co-Alt duel, regardless of who was flying what.
Because the Tempest has such as high perk price, they are flown quite timidly, or certainly without much risk. That is a significant contributor to its K/D score. The Tempest is probably the best at what it does best, but it's not the best fighter in the game.
(Edit): Besides, I've already mentioned what the best fighter in the game is... F4U-4. At any altitude from sea level to 30k, it's equal to or superior to any prop fighter in the game. No other fighter can make that claim.
My regards,
Widewing
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Tempest's have high K/D because they are largely used for picking... Down low, speed is excellent, as is acceleration. However, up at 10k, the Tempest has many potential enemies that out-perform it. At 10k, it ranks 8th in speed (among prop fighters), with the La-7 and 109G-14 only about 1 or 2 mph slower. The 109K-4, F4U-4, Spit14, 190D-9, P-51B, P-51D and P-47N are all faster.
Some of us have flown comparison duels between the Tempest and the F4U-4, La-7 and Spit14. All of these defeat the Tempest with relative ease in a Co-E, Co-Alt duel, regardless of who was flying what.
Because the Tempest has such as high perk price, they are flown quite timidly, or certainly without much risk. That is a significant contributor to its K/D score. The Tempest is probably the best at what it does best, but it's not the best fighter in the game.
(Edit): Besides, I've already mentioned what the best fighter in the game is... F4U-4. At any altitude from sea level to 30k, it's equal to or superior to any prop fighter in the game. No other fighter can make that claim.
My regards,
Widewing
I am not arguing that it is the best in the game, just my surprise that it wasn't mentioned. As i said, i know that it is not a good 1 vs 1 fighter, but it is fantastically suited to the MA gameplay style. Being at 10k above a horde, i would rather be in the Tempest than the F4U-4.
Personally i am not a massive fan of the U-4 because it does not suit my playing style, i would much rather mix it up in the cannon armed C-hog than mince around in the U-4. Saying that, i am not denying that it is probably the best all round prop fighter in the game for the majority of people.
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La-7, rofl.. well its deff a fun fighter imo :)
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(Edit): Besides, I've already mentioned what the best fighter in the game is... F4U-4. At any altitude from sea level to 30k, it's equal to or superior to any prop fighter in the game. No other fighter can make that claim.
My regards,
Widewing
Ignoring the game modeling! Do you believe in real dogfight this huge F4U-4 with double weight and only 5-7% more power would out perform the K-4 ?
F4u-4 Me109k-4
Length: 33' 29'
Wingspan: 41' 12.5 m 32'
Empty Weight: 9,205 lb 4,886 lb
Max Weight: 14,670 lb 7,900 lb
DB605ASCM: 2,000 HP
Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney R-2800-18W DB605DCM: 1,800 HP
Horsepower (each): 2100
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Pretty sure the 2800-18W generated in excess of 2500hp on Emergency Power (the 8W in our F4U-1A hits 2250 on WEP, IIRC).
The -4 also had that massive 13' diameter prop with four paddle blades, as opposed to the smaller three-bladed prop of the K-4.
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Ignoring the game modeling! Do you believe in real dogfight this huge F4U-4 with double weight and only 5-7% more power would out perform the K-4 ?
In most respects... Yes.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-4-detail-specification.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-4-detail-specification.pdf)
My regards,
Widewing[/url]
My regards,
Widewing
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Ummm...the F4U-4 does *not* out-perform the 109 K-4 in ROC or acceleration up to 250mph in AHII, and those are the performance measures most closely related to weight/horsepower. As you will know, thrust/drag defines top speed, and mass/drag plays heavily into zoom climb.
Second, the weight of a clean F4U-4 with 100% fuel is a little under 12,500 lbs. To get up to 14,000 lbs you have to take drops or ord.
Ignoring the game modeling! Do you believe in real dogfight this huge F4U-4 with double weight and only 5-7% more power would out perform the K-4 ?
F4u-4 Me109k-4
Length: 33' 29'
Wingspan: 41' 12.5 m 32'
Empty Weight: 9,205 lb 4,886 lb
Max Weight: 14,670 lb 7,900 lb
DB605ASCM: 2,000 HP
Powerplant: Pratt & Whitney R-2800-18W DB605DCM: 1,800 HP
Horsepower (each): 2100
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It all depends on the skill of the pilot and how well he can exploit the enemys weaknesses. The top 2 American aces in WW2 were P38 flyers. You can have all the speed,climb rate and turn ability in the world, but if you don't know what to do with it and when, a P40 will beat you. SA is the determining factor in most fights.....not the plane you're in. Just my .02 cents :salute
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It all depends on the skill of the pilot and how well he can exploit the enemys weaknesses. The top 2 American aces in WW2 were P38 flyers. You can have all the speed,climb rate and turn ability in the world, but if you don't know what to do with it and when, a P40 will beat you. SA is the determining factor in most fights.....not the plane you're in. Just my .02 cents :salute
That dodges the question, nobody is saying that pilot skill doesn't matter. The fact is that some fighters are better than others. There are reasons fighter development didn't stop at the Foker Eindecker.
Also, talking about top aces, that ignores a lot of other factors that go into that. F4U-4s and Tempest Mk Vs didn't exactly get to encounter a lot of enemy aicraft in the air.
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That dodges the question, nobody is saying that pilot skill doesn't matter. The fact is that some fighters are better than others. There are reasons fighter development didn't stop at the Foker Eindecker.
Also, talking about top aces, that ignores a lot of other factors that go into that. F4U-4s and Tempest Mk Vs didn't exactly get to encounter a lot of enemy aicraft in the air.
P-38s essentially had every advantage except turn performance over most of what they encountered in the PTO, too. So plane had abit to do with it there too.
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P-38s essentially had every advantage except turn performance over most of what they encountered in the PTO, too. So plane had abit to do with it there too.
the point is fair' the reason why the 38 had so many kills has to do with the nuber of enemy planes they encountered - by the time the Corsairs, Tempests and even the 51s were in the air, the Luft was all but dead already.
Pilot skill can make a decent plane good, but a great plane can become truly great. And the Corsair is really the best plane (starting to sound like a broken record here). . . and I think everyone agrees on that. Personally, I wished the Tempest is perked too highly, but I suppose its best this way since I think a lot of us would fly it if it were not so. anyway.
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Spit9/8/16 End of discussion. :aok
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Spit9/8/16 End of discussion. :aok
F4U-4 will eat any of those for lunch.
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Well if I had to pick just one plane I'd say the ME262.
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F4U-4 will eat any of those for lunch.
I guess it depends on who's in the Spit. But then again after 12 pages, you'd think people could have THEIR OWN choice of what THEY "think" is the best fighter.
In two months it'll be the same group of guys pissing and moaning, all the while stroking themselves to the same diatribe that is cookie cutter, from 7 years ago.
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F4U-4 will eat any of those for lunch.
That is a very tough lunch :t
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F4U-4 will eat any of those for lunch.
I think that the vast majority of the people in AH would lose a co E fight in a F4U4 against a 16. I personally would much prefer to be in the Spitfire in a 1 vs 1 situation.
As for the general arena style fight, i would prefer to be in the F4U-4 so that i can engage/disengage when i choose.
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It's sad that after 7 pages in this thread that people deny what is clear as day...the best fighter is without a doubt the P-38. To think otherwise is just self-denial.
ack-ack
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It's sad that after 7 pages in this thread that people deny what is clear as day...the best fighter is without a doubt the P-38. To think otherwise is just self-denial.
ack-ack
You know, I've always wondered why more twin-engine fighters along the lines of a P-38 weren't produced in WWII, the advantages of neutral-torque and nose-mounted fire power being what they are.
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It's sad that after 7 pages in this thread that people deny what is clear as day...the best fighter is without a doubt the P-38. To think otherwise is just self-denial.
ack-ack
Yes, yes, of course it is. Now back to your cell, i mean room, you go. Don't forget your meds this time ;) :D
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I think that the vast majority of the people in AH would lose a co E fight in a F4U4 against a 16. I personally would much prefer to be in the Spitfire in a 1 vs 1 situation.
As for the general arena style fight, i would prefer to be in the F4U-4 so that i can engage/disengage when i choose.
Very much agree. No lunch here :devil
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Spit 14 and the F4U-4 are tied in my opinion, followed by the P-51D and the Spit 16
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In my opinion, the Spitfire Mark IV and the F4U-4 Corsair are tied, followed by the Spitfire Mark VI and P-51D mustang.
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for ME F4U4. it fits my style of play. it does what I want when I want. F4U1A is next. does the same. just not quite as well or as fast. if I'm defending with little alt, Spit 9, its just fun.
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In my opinion, the Spitfire Mark XIV and F4U-4 Corsair are tied for best, followed by the P-51D Mustang and the Spitfire Mark XVI. They all rock! :rock
:salute
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In my opinion, the Spitfire Mark IV and the F4U-4 Corsair are tied, followed by the Spitfire Mark VI and P-51D mustang.
All these are great planes, especially for experienced fliers, no one has listed a bad plane. I think when we're talking about someone new, the best thing to do is tell them pick a fighter, any fighter, and learn that one. Tell them also to find someone to wing with who loves a particular AC and get assistance. I'd steer them away fom some ac rather than towards one in particular. For example, I'd keep them out of Bf110s and P-38s for awhile. I love the 110 when buff hunting and the 38 is a great ride but I am no master of it.
The P-51 and Spits are easy to fly, as is the hog and the La-7. The tendency with new guys is to be impatient though, and a burner like those can make that worse. Ki-84, is also not a bad choice for beginners and is competitive and maybe more forgiving in a turn.
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Well if I had to pick just one plane I'd say the ME262.
Now thats a controversial statement. I could agree with you, but me being me, I prefer the P47,P38, and P51. :D
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If I had to pick one and only one I would pick the P47N, no other aircraft has the ability to carry that much ord, and manuver like it can once it has dumped even half it's ord and has that great a boost is speed with WEP, that many guns, and the ability to carry enough fule in drop tanks to operate soley on so you can carry 25% in internal tanks so you can get home and dump the tanks to pick up more speed, reduce drag, increace manuverability, AND take as much damage as the P47N ALL in one package, not even close. But other than that it is P51, P39, F6F, and P38.
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I think a Hog or a 38 for a flier who wants a challenge. for a beginner I would say a zeke. dont take much damage, not many cannon rounds (not they're to good anyway). it would teach em to stay of enemy sights and line up their shots. just my 2 cents
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Tempest.
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Tempest.
Naw.... Both the F4U-4 and La-7 own the Tempest.
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my best fighter are as follows. and its because im the most successful in these.
1. hurricane 2c
2. a6m5 zero
3. spitfire V
4. seafire
5. f4f-5
6. p-51b
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P51D,and typhoon are my favs for now
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for my flying style, 109K4 or 109G14. The 30mm only allows the enemy one mistake (in most cases).
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For me, the average flyer...the best all around plane is the P51D. I get in trouble it gets me out. Decent guns nothing to brag about can get kills and lot of assists. Maneuverability at speed is good. Great plane if flown within its limits. Boom n zoom or one on one a good med..high alt turn fight. Turn fighting on the ground in a P51D is suicide. Overall the P51D is probably one of the easiest planes for a noob.
LA7 great short range fighter. Maneuverable, fast, great guns. Keep the speed up, work the vertical. Another excellent noob plane. Yak not necessarily a noob plane..but its fast good zoom decent gun package.
Tiffys, Hurrys, C-Hogs, are for cherry pickers and Ho's. I don't fly any of them very often. Corsairs can be killers with a good pilot. Manueverable..fast..decent guns. Fun plane. Spits..put out the flaps your in real trouble..160 mph. Good all around turn plane above 200mph. Good gun package on all but Spit 1.
109s were outdated by 1941 but they are still good planes when flown by a good pilot. '09s and 38s compress big time. Japanese planes..burn baby burn. Don't dive too hard. Excellent otherwise. Ki 84 fast good guns. Decent maneuverability. Zero's great turn planes. Niki..nearly as maneuverable as a Spit with a 4 big cannons. Lot of players like to use the Niki for the HO or cherry picking but it can turn with most planes. Just not as durable. Not as fast as the Corsairs, P51s, Tiffys.. but you have to respect those damn cannons.
As someone said the best fighter is the one you spend time in and learn. Noob advice..pick a plane fly it every day for a year. Do a little research on the website learn about all the planes and you'll get good.
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38s compress big time.
Only if you don't know what you're doing.
ack-ack
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Only if you don't know what you're doing.
ack-ack
well if your trying to catch a diving 190D, your not going to have much luck :devil
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best fighter thats easy the Hellcat! (http://www.derstuhl.net/vf31/Smileys/vf31_set/12145.gif)
others I like:
109-f4 and k4 (http://www.derstuhl.net/vf31/Smileys/vf31_set/15511.gif)
seafire
N1k
p-47
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well if your trying to catch a diving 190D, your not going to have much luck :devil
Again, only if you don't know what you're doing. I, and the other dedicated P-38 drivers, don't have any issues getting our Lightnings up to 500mph in dives without entering into compressability.
ack-ack
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yeah I know, but admit it, it is much easier not to compress on most other planes such as 190, F4U, spitfire, P-51, ect...
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yeah I know, but admit it, it is much easier not to compress on most other planes such as 190, F4U, spitfire, P-51, ect...
Again, only if you screw up. It's like getting into a spin in the P-38, if you spin the Lightning it's because you screwed up. Same with compressability, if you enter into compressability it's because you screwed up and no other reason. So whether or not it's easier or harder to enter into compressability than a Mustang or Spitfire really depends on who's flying the P-38.
ack-ack
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Again, only if you screw up. It's like getting into a spin in the P-38, if you spin the Lightning it's because you screwed up. Same with compressability, if you enter into compressability it's because you screwed up and no other reason. So whether or not it's easier or harder to enter into compressability than a Mustang or Spitfire really depends on who's flying the P-38.
ack-ack
true
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Only if you don't know what you're doing.
ack-ack
And I don't LOL. Still try it every now and a again.
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I think the 38 is AMONG the best fighters, and by best I mean most versatile.
Good range
good firepower
can haul 2000 pounds of bombs and 10 rockets to 10K faster than any other plane in the game.
in the right hands and flown correctly it can be an absolute nightmare to fight against.. it can BNZ and then in a haertbeat switch to low speed stall fighting, coupled with guns in the nose (the death ray) 1 crossing shot even out to D600 often results in insta-tower.
Im trying to learn it myself now, its taking time, but I consider it an investment, im pretty solid in the Jug, and flying the 38 sometimes i forget what Im in and try some rather juggish tactics.. like an 8K power dive on bombers that sees me ending up somewhere near the earth's core.
Im getting better though, I can usually get 2 or 3 solid minutes of flight now before getting a PW. :x
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262
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The P-47N. It can out fly anything at high alt except those damn jet powered flying cannons. It can dish it out AND take it unlike some other planes we have but I won't mention. It is really manuverable for a plane of it's size and has enough firepower to level a hanger. It is manuverable period. Maby not as much as some others but it is still plenty good.
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The P-51 even being some what under modeled in here is the best for me. It has speed and a good bomb load. The range and view is excellent plus you can fly it like you stole it and it stays together.
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The P-51 even being some what under modeled in here is the best for me. It has speed and a good bomb load. The range and view is excellent plus you can fly it like you stole it and it stays together.
you keep saying this in your posts, how is it under modeled?
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you keep saying this in your posts, how is it under modeled?
It doesn't out turn A6Ms, out climb Me163s and outrun Me262s.
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P-47N.
Of course, it is far from the best in typical low altitude MA furballs. But it absolutely rules the thin air and thus can always hold the high ground and attack from advantage. It can range with anything. It is reliable, was relatively easy to fly, has good visibility, is armed to a fare-thee-well, and so rugged that it was difficult to shoot down even if you managed to get an even break with one. Thus, under actual "war" conditions, faced with level bombers escorted by P-47Ns at 30K+, a belligerent nation could choose between attempting interception and fighting the Jugs in their playground, or simply allowing their infrastructure to be reduced to rubble.
+1
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I can say as of today I currently have 9 kills of the spit 16 and 0 deaths to it in a p38J. I Never run from a 16 when I'm in a J. I have 4 kills of the spit 9 to 0 deaths. 99% of my fighting is on the deck turn fighting.
Skyhawk
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Thus, under actual "war" conditions, faced with level bombers escorted by P-47Ns at 30K+, a belligerent nation could choose between attempting interception and fighting the Jugs in their playground, or simply allowing their infrastructure to be reduced to rubble.
Just one bit of context for the 47N, when arguing the above: $$$
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you keep saying this in your posts, how is it under modeled?
My guess is that there aren't enough moddles, ie P-51D, P-51B, P-51E...maby E, not sure.
I still support the P-47N though.
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This F4U-4 you speak of wouldnt be a code name for a Colby rednose would it? If thats the case then I may well be the best fighter,on the other hand if a Bully Kutta shows up you now have the best hi alt /hi tempurature fighter found on the planet! Fights lasting over an hour at temps exceeding 40C.
Ooops wrong forum I thought this was about dogfighting.... :o
:salute
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I love air to air rockets and have had lots of kills. Surprises heck outa somebody who's never had them fire at. For me it's the 110 and spit for differing ftr roles. :rock
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W7, I hate it when someone shoots a spread of rockets out of his P-51B; those clusters make a nice shot gun like effect if you can set it up right.
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hurri 2c for ATA and f4u4 for ATG
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Not sure, but maybe I consider it a tie between the P-47N and the C. 205.
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I have been persuaded by an anonymous group to correct my vote. Its the P38. As it should have been from the start.
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I have been persuaded by an anonymous group to correct my vote. Its the P38. As it should have been from the start.
Since you followed through your part of our 'agreement', the Consortium of 12 has ordered the release of your ewe unharmed. We will contact you later with the details on where you can pick up your ewe. If your ewe walks funny, that's probably because we didn't realize JOC wasn't a member of SAPP at the time we let him watch her.
ack-ack
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:salute
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My guess is that there aren't enough moddles, ie P-51D, P-51B, P-51E...maby E, not sure.
I still support the P-47N though.
P51E? Never heard of it
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Thats "E" for everyone...guppy... :devil
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Duh guppy, like morphine addict over there said "E" stands for everyone. But seriously, I just said E for lack of a better letter. If I knew some better variants then I would have listed them.
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no, no, that's dogfight. I'm talking about a fighter. For example you might want something that carries a large amount of ord. and still be able to fight after it drops them.
That would more properly be referred to as being a Jabo Fighter, an Attack Fighter, or a Fighter-Bomber. Just saying "best fighter" is meaningless on your part.
Typhoon, Tempest, P-51D Mustang, and P-38L Lightning would all be good choices.
---
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no, no, that's dogfight. I'm talking about a fighter. For example you might want something that carries a large amount of ord. and still be able to fight after it drops them.
You are talking about the P-47N.
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That would more properly be referred to as being a Jabo Fighter, an Attack Fighter, or a Fighter-Bomber. Just saying "best fighter" is meaningless on your part.
well if you almost never carry bombs you dont need a fighter that can carry them or all you might want is one 500lb or something like that. Say you like spit8, well it's definitely not a jabo fighter but it can carry a bomb.
Also that response was to moot giving a link to a BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII thread, what if you just like to BnZ?