Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kcfarris on March 31, 2010, 06:38:15 PM
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Is it cheating if a squad divides itself between more than one country in the MA? Ive noticed some squads do it all the time. Does it violate the rules, or is it just cheesy?
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What is the problem with it?
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It's not against any rules, and it's only cheesy if you do cheesy things. ;)
In lesser populated MA's (EW, MW, WWI) it's sometimes even necessary to split up for balancing reasons.
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I see no problem.
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Depends on WHY they are doing it.
It could either be quite cheesey or commendable depending on the reason.
There is no "rule" against it.
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often they are following the fight.
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often they are following the fight.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l55/jr32560/wtd.jpg)
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Agreed, spies should be hung. Anyone found changing sides will immediately be detained and executed.
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Is it cheating if a squad divides itself between more than one country in the MA? Ive noticed some squads do it all the time. Does it violate the rules, or is it just cheesy?
It's neither cheating or cheesy.
ack-ack
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Some people like fighting their sqauddies too :aok
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Its pretty fun when you split your squad up and go to a few deserted bases. You can have some pretty fun fights, even if they do suck. :) :lol
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SPIZ!!!!!!!!!!! :noid
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SPIZ!!!!!!!!!!! :noid
thats about the only problem I could see with it, reporting missions or cv locations etc. etc.
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Is he one of the claim jumpers, by any chance?
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Is he one of the claim jumpers, by any chance?
oh gosh.... not agaIN!
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I predict a multiple page "novel" with the end authored by Skuzzy.
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I predict a multiple page "novel" with the end authored by Skuzzy.
Yup. My advice, just skip to the ending.
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thats about the only problem I could see with it, reporting missions or cv locations etc. etc.
If it helps the timid crap in the Arenas right now, I'm all for it. If it takes a squad to START a good fight, DO IT!
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One day when we all finally see the light and become CJ's we will all be one country and pwn bases w/o opposition, never switch sides and fly off into a rainbow draped sunset.
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Jump sides and report everything on 200, CV locs, Mission locs. Hell, i would. Why? cause i dont care and its fun to feed off the whines.
Same reason i ghost people out on Americas Army :). Just to see the tears of butt hurtness. Yes hurtness is a word now.
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Heh.... somebody should switch sides and keep reporting everything. I mean EVERYTHING.
"There's a P-51. Now there's a Spit. He's got a brown skin. The pony is flying higher. The spit is moving away. One of my guys on range said he needs help. I'm moving in to help him. He's dead. I'm not with them, I'm helping you. Don't shoot at me, please! Crap, I said don't shoot me! Hold on I'll be back there in a minute to help you out some more...."
[etc...]
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Jump sides and report everything on 200, CV locs, Mission locs. Hell, i would. Why? cause i dont care and its fun to feed off the whines.
Same reason i ghost people out on Americas Army :). Just to see the tears of butt hurtness. Yes hurtness is a word now.
Forget that just use squad vox ....it has no barriers and doesnt know sides ...or just tune your squadie and boom connection to your pals. I mean... HT allows for spying/cross country comms.... or we wouldnt have these avenues of communacation ... right?
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crap.... its time to start cheating :angel:
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The obvious and best solution is to simply run missions that have a fart's chance in the wind of winning a fight.
You want that field over there? Bring some escorts. Dedicate folks to attack, other folks to supress, other folks to escort, etc.
THESE missions, properly designed and fun to play, are one of the many joys of Aces High.
The "misshuns" that sneak around behind enemy lines 500mi from the nearest fight just to sneak a field, and they fall to pieces and auger/die/runaway at the first sight of a defender?
They don't deserve to get away with it IMO.
You see, the one you normally encounter in the MA can only avoid a fight. The one I suggested actually WINS the fight, and accomplishes its goal.
It's millions of times more gratifying.
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Heh.... somebody should switch sides and keep reporting everything. I mean EVERYTHING.
"There's a P-51. Now there's a Spit. He's got a brown skin. The pony is flying higher. The spit is moving away. One of my guys on range said he needs help. I'm moving in to help him. He's dead. I'm not with them, I'm helping you. Don't shoot at me, please! Crap, I said don't shoot me! Hold on I'll be back there in a minute to help you out some more...."
[etc...]
Isn't that what the squeekers already do?
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Well, the humor would be a non-squeaker would do it, in an ironic way.
But, you're right... it'd drown in a sea of SSDD :D
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And once again, we find that some people just can't grasp the difference between "socially acceptable behavior" and "what I can get away with." :huh
Do you guys also stiff waiters for no good reason other than being cheap, deliberately give bad directions to strangers requesting your help, or refuse to give up your seat on the subway to a 90-year-old grandma with a walker? There are no rules against those things either. Obviously it's okay to do them because if it weren't, they'd be illegal. And since your like-minded friends do the same things, they can't be socially unacceptable!
"Oh, but it's just a game." Sure... and it's still possible to be rude, obnoxious, and a bad sport in a game. Just because it's a game doesn't mean there aren't real people playing it.
As to the original question: I don't see any reason why anyone would object to squads splitting up between countries. But there are cheesy things you can do that way that you can't do, or can't do as easily, without squadmates on another side - like playing "I'll let you shoot down my buffs now let me shoot down yours so we both pad our fighter scores". Don't know of any rule against that, but it's cheesy and extremely unsportsmanlike. As is trying to sabotage other players on the team you're currently playing for because they don't choose to play like you think everyone ought to play. But I think we've been there already (about 600 times). :rolleyes:
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The obvious and best solution is to simply run missions that have a fart's chance in the wind of winning a fight.
You want that field over there? Bring some escorts. Dedicate folks to attack, other folks to supress, other folks to escort, etc.
THESE missions, properly designed and fun to play, are one of the many joys of Aces High.
The "misshuns" that sneak around behind enemy lines 500mi from the nearest fight just to sneak a field, and they fall to pieces and auger/die/runaway at the first sight of a defender?
They don't deserve to get away with it IMO.
You see, the one you normally encounter in the MA can only avoid a fight. The one I suggested actually WINS the fight, and accomplishes its goal.
It's millions of times more gratifying.
+1 :aok . been sayin this for years but they dont listen :cry
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(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l55/jr32560/wtd.jpg)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,281551.195.html starting at page 15 :aok
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:aok
+1 :aok . been sayin this for years but they dont listen :cry
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Regarding the OP, splitting a squad is not cheating.
Spying is going to happen. Even if there were some in-game limits, griefers would work around them with Ventrillo, or whatever. The current brief (one hour?) delay to repeated switching is just fine.
Plus it is fun to fly against squad mates once in a while. AvA, the DA and WWI are fun places for this.
Is he one of the claim jumpers, by any chance?
Trollin, trollin, trollin...
One day when we all finally see the light and become CJ's we will all be one country and pwn bases w/o opposition, never switch sides and fly off into a rainbow draped sunset.
Keep them doggies trollin …
Jump sides and report everything on 200, CV locs, Mission locs. Hell, i would. Why? cause i dont care and its fun to feed off the whines.
Same reason i ghost people out on Americas Army :). Just to see the tears of butt hurtness. Yes hurtness is a word now.
Look up “sociopath,” aka griefer.
While I am no Freud, I am picking up an alternate lifestyle vibe. Like the time someone wanted to get their hands on me…
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thats about the only problem I could see with it, reporting missions or cv locations etc. etc.
I'm kinda disappointed if someone my mishun ISN"T reported :(
If there is no resistance, then it's only toolshedding.
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like playing "I'll let you shoot down my buffs now let me shoot down yours so we both pad our fighter scores". Don't know of any rule against that, but it's cheesy and extremely unsportsmanlike.
There is no "written" rule about this particular scenario, but let HTC get wind of that situation and it's obvious that they are padding ... bad things will happen ... they most definitely frown upon this.
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It is against the rules, we caught Bushlt flying nit one night and immediately sent HTC an email requesting that his account be closed, our requst was granted forth wit.
shamus
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Nothing cheesy or wrong with it. :aok
Of course, I am here because of my squaddies. If they are in a specific place, why the heck would I want to be anywhere else? :headscratch:
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Is it cheating if a squad divides itself between more than one country in the MA? Ive noticed some squads do it all the time. Does it violate the rules, or is it just cheesy?
We do it occasionally to keep a good fight relatively even.
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And once again, we find that some people just can't grasp the difference between "socially acceptable behavior" and "what I can get away with." :huh
Do you guys also stiff waiters for no good reason other than being cheap, deliberately give bad directions to strangers requesting your help
Yeah, there are times when someone asks me for directions and I'll purposely give them wrong ones. Just yesterday, some guy asked me how to get to Venice and I gave him directions to the Watt's Towers, giving him the route that takes him through Watt's finest neighborhoods.
or refuse to give up your seat on the subway to a 90-year-old grandma with a walker?
If she really wanted the seat, she would have moved faster. The way I see it, she didn't want the seat bad enough to get it. Her loss, my comfort.
ack-ack
[/quote]
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It is against the rules, we caught Bushlt flying nit one night and immediately sent HTC an email requesting that his account be closed, our requst was granted forth wit.
shamus
Baah we all know Bushlt can't even spell Nit.
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If she really wanted the seat, she would have moved faster. The way I see it, she didn't want the seat bad enough to get it. Her loss, my comfort.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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We've done it in the name of evening out the fight many times. Always kind of funny to start out fighting a crowd, shoot down and be shot down by the same guys, then when the balance changes go over and fly with the guys you were fighting, just to keep the good fight going.
As a number of folks have mentioned already. sometimes it's best to bounce to another country just to find a fight.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with squads spreading out over multiple countries. Anyone giving them any problems with doing so are the griefers.
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i openly give out mishuns that openly say they are for the purpose of shutting down a base inorder to get more people to help them with the "cause". At the same time this is not the reason i'd be on a different country than some squad members. If i am its most likely because we disagree on where the "fight" is or simply because we are waiting on timer to expire. we do not stick with any chest piece. Some of us may like 1 more than the other. For instance wax and i were bish for 1st 4 or so years we played so we may prefer them over the other 2 while the rest may like rook since initially aom was a rook squad. and some may prefer nits. But generally we'll be on the lower country or the one with the most action. as for banter across countries its generally less than someone maybe asking what a dar bar is to see potential of a fight. Other than that we dont actively seek mishuns or cv's or whatever as a squad. whatever i myself give out for reasons stated initially would be said on ch200. Call it cheesy if u want to but so is killing a fight for the pure purpose of forcing people to join your "war".
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So because someone's idea of having fun in the game conflicts with yours so you are going to do what you can to ruin thier fun. And that makes you different from them how?
If you cannot learn to coexist with players who like to play the "war" game, then maybe you need to move to an arena that caters to your style of play, rather than trying to force others to play like you do.
Basically, that is the problem. Some players think thier way is the only way to play the game, and because there are high numbers in one arena, they are going to do whatever they can to insure everyone in that arena plays the way they think the game should be played.
Now, take the above sentence and read it hard. Did I mention furballers or "war' players? Nope, because it applies to every player who has thier own idea of how this game shoulf be played.
The correct answer is for the player to go to the arena which caters to his/her stype of play and stop trying to force others to play his/her way.
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So because someone's idea of having fun in the game conflicts with yours so you are going to do what you can to ruin thier fun. And that makes you different from them how?
i dont think u read me right skuzzy :aok. The the reason they're shutting down our "fun" is because it "conflicts" with theirs. It happens a lot. People will start complaining that too many are furballing and not helping with the "war". Eventually a mission will be posted to shut down that base with no purpose of actually capturing it. Just come in fluff the hangers auger and leave or die in ack. Do not touch the town or deack base. Happened just the other day. big dar vs big dar. which is hard to find especially on these big maps. They came in shut the base down. Didnt touch anything else. Eventually the fight sputtered and everyone spread out to any of the other 150 bases.
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My answer is, if you want to furball, there are better arenas for that. Do not expect the war gamers to play around your game. If you only want to furball, and you only want to play in the Main Arenas, then you should be willing to accept, there is a point in time your type of game is going to be interrupted.
You, nor anyone else, has an exclusive to any arena.
Your answer is to disrupt thier game play, because they disrupted yours. Yeah, that is going to make everyone happy.
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i dont only want to furball. i want opposition,. theres a difference.
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Replace it with any term you want. Your solution to "rat" out missions is not conducive to keeping the community healthy. No matter how you rationalize it, you are just as wrong as the griefers, and in fact you become a griefer.
You want opposition on your terms. A mission coming to your field is opposition. It's just not opposition you want.
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if you want to furball, there are better arenas for that
actually u dont have any arena's for that. the bowl is just a mini-ma with xtra temps. with big maps nobody should be forced to do anything. if people want to fight it out over a base they can if people want to take bases they can. theres really no reason for any of it to clash considering no base really is more strategically placed than the other. to me shutting down a base just to stop 30-40 people from doing something they're obviously enjoying is griefing. if they came in deacked the base and beat us to a pulp and took it i wouldnt care and would probably <S> them for it. What i am doin is just fire with fire sorta thing. not saying its right or wrong.
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I am saying you are no better than the griefers you think so badly of. You are doing the same thing they are no matter how you rationalize it.
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I am saying you are no better than the griefers you think so badly of. You are doing the same thing they are no matter how you rationalize it.
not rationalizing anything. in fact. am admitting it. grief me get griefed back. It's as much my 15bucks as is it yours. figured someone from tehas would understand.
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I am more about solving problems than creating them. You have no solution. You are just creating problems I have to solve.
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WWII dogfight arena like the WWI arena.
Perks implemented. (Can you guess why some grow weary of the DA?)
No ords.
no troops.
I'd be there.
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or maps that promote better game play. usually the base we're at is all we have. pork hangers and theres nothing left. only defense is over a sector away. by the time u fly to the base under attack they have already rolled an m3 in from the spawn point that seems to almost always be next to the town.
what i would do for a week or so worth of old maps so people could see how fun actually fighting for and earning a base can be.
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I am more about solving problems than creating them. You have no solution. You are just creating problems I have to solve.
So what is the solution?
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Look up “sociopath,” aka griefer.
While I am no Freud, I am picking up an alternate lifestyle vibe. Like the time someone wanted to get their hands on me…
Look up Owns you :aok
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So what is the solution?
He Said...........
My answer is, if you want to furball, there are better arenas for that.
Cavalry
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He Said...........
Cavalry
Yesh but. you can switch, go to a furball, fight for 10 mins then the horde comes in to kill hangers and vulch. Or take the base with 30 + n00bs
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So what is the solution?
The solution comes from within the space between your ears.
Think about it...
No more "you ruined my fun, so I'm gonna ruin your fun". Time to change mindset and move on. This is not gradeschool - we shouldn't act like children.
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The best way to deal with people who pork a base with a hoard is simply accept you've lost the base and not up any planes for them to vulch, they want easy kill vulches more than they want the base. Granted they do want the base but it comes a distant distant second to a good old score vulch.
I don't accept the forcing them to play your way because you want it your way statement from skuzzy. The people doing this sort of thing are eliminating almost any danger to themselves. If the people 'defending' the base think the same way and say the only way to have no danger to ourselves 'manned ack aside' is to not defend the base, what do you then have? a combat simulator with zero combat.
What I do agree with is that theres an arena for nearly everyone, mid war can be very good at times and frequently has a wide spread of good quality sticks and fights if you can catch the right people on at the right time. WW1 is excellent fun and as close to 'pure furballing' as your ever likely to get in terms of gameplay, theres nowhere you can run, I find it funny that quite a few of the people who bleat on about 'I'm for the fight' never visit this arena beyond the first few days.
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WWII dogfight arena like the WWI arena.
Perks implemented. (Can you guess why some grow weary of the DA?)
No ords.
no troops.
I'd be there.
You shut it with the crazy talk!! Now lets go drop some FH's :aok
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The people doing this sort of thing are eliminating almost any danger to themselves. If the people 'defending' the base think the same way and say the only way to have no danger to ourselves 'manned ack aside' is to not defend the base, what do you then have? a combat simulator with zero combat.
Agreed, so now I try to play the game later at night which has resulted in equally dweeby behavior. Almost no one is willing to fight unless they have 3v1 or greater advantage. Last night in TT, it was 3 hordes hanging near their bases', timidly waiting for 1 person from another horde to get tired of flying in circles and attack them, where then they would all gang the 1 poor plane and go back to hiding in their horde.
There are behaviors that promote combat and there are behaviors that don't, ganging an undefended base with 30+ people or hiding in a horde and only fighting when you have a huge numbers adv, are both of the latter. The lack of a clear objective & unlimited lives, leads to almost a trench warfare style of aerial combat.
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Shamus don't cover your tracks. I switched sides so you vutch me and get your RANK up. Of course us being clowns I went rook and you flew to a knight base . Besides that I love to spi :noid
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The solution comes from within the space between your ears.
Think about it...
No, you should think about it. What's next? Complaining to be shot at?
No more "you ruined my fun, so I'm gonna ruin your fun". Time to change mindset and move on. This is not gradeschool - we shouldn't act like children.
Says the guy playing computer game.
You've really outdone yourself this time...
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He Said...........
Cav, meanings of an answer and solution are not interchangeable.
So yeah, in this case I have to fully agree with TW9.
not rationalizing anything. in fact. am admitting it. grief me get griefed back. It's as much my 15bucks as is it yours.
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...Your answer is to disrupt thier game play, because they disrupted yours. Yeah, that is going to make everyone happy.
Roy, You know and have met me, we've had our disagreements, but generally thy are semantic. <S> sir, and I fully respect you, and I know you respect anyone who is cordial, un-combatant, and generally peaceful / logical.
I think what my cohort is trying to bring up is exactly what I have quoted from you.
Look at from the view point of TW9 if you may (player Z). Player X found a way to disrupt player Z's preference in game play. Player X called out of course, and did get accomplices, but the end result is the disruption of player Z's ideal.
Now in the past the great post by Dale about the "war" being there to promote dogfights, and game play is legend. We veterans especially know the meaning and desire of HTC as a company that provides us hours, no days of fun. What complicates this is the direction some players have taken.
There is no doubt that over the years the player base has changed a bit. Many older aged veterans have left, though like myself still post (I WISH I could play but can’t afford at this time in my life). Even though, the game play is what it is. Some players want to achieve goal X, others goal Z. Going back a long, long way I remember those goals being mutually productive.
I’ll go a ways back here, I apologize for the length. Back with a map like Mindanao, yes it was a bit lopsided in country neutrality, but anyone who played can remember the complexity near the middle of the map. The “furballers” had to be there to distract the fight, the base takers had to be there to capture the city… but I am reminiscing.
I almost suggest since the AKDESERT map the “mass mission” started to take place. Not a tool of attrition, but a tool of necessity due to the large difference in base altitudes. Now back then the map was great for providing mutual attack zones, and areas for “pure” dogfighting, but I still feel it was a transition to something “different”.
Over the years the conflict between “furballers” and “mission” players has evolved into a virtual war, each thinking the other is less important to the game. Game is actually a strong word. I know some players go WAY beyond what constitutes playing a PC “game”. There are others (mainly veterans… who call it a “game” [lower case]). This dichotomy of player base has to be not only confusing, but unintelligible. The desire to encourage new players, yet retain veterans to help said new players is a dilemma that honestly is infuriating.
That all said I don’t see you proposing a realistic solution in any of your posts. One thing said, rand repeated is “go to the arena which caters to his/her stype of play”. Yet you are deflecting the question and not offering a real solution. Which arena are you suggesting? If you truly are saying “go to the DA” then why not come out and say that? I am guessing here, but you can’t formally suggest the DA because you know it doesn’t offer the solution said player is asking for. You seem to be suggestion a course of action that is invisible to many of us. If you have a concrete suggestion I know many here would appreciate it, beyond that I can say I think your words quoted are falling on deaf ears.
The catch 22 of your post I originally quoted is that there is currently no game mechanic available for TW9 to disrupt the game play of those who intentionally disrupt his. Let’s pose a hypothetical there are 4 of each on each side. 4 “TW9’s”; and 4 “others”. Caught in the middle unspoken are the players who make enough to show a full bar of radar in the sector on the map in question. That sounds like 20+ players minimum; if I understand the map correctly. Now the “others” think that group of possibly 20 players could be better used attacking / defending a base somewhere else on the map. Those “others” have it in their ability to disrupt the conflict in question with or without help. Possibly they ask for help, possibly they don’t. Either way those 4 (on the same country, acting of their own accord regardless to objection) effected the game play of 4 (minimum) of their country-mates.
Remember now that was a minority (based on the amount of players AH requires to show a “full” bar radar in a sector for 2 sides) effecting the game play of many (upwards of 20 counting both sides on estimate). You mention “disrupt thier game play, because they disrupted yours” I am sorry Roy but I have to ask you the pivotal question (And with due all respect you are being facetious):
How can “player TW9” honestly disrupt the game play of player “other”? As I mentioned I a posing a hypothetical situation, but the basis is the same. There almost seems to be no true answer. I guess what I am bringing up here is a fundamental flaw, or caveat that says “HTC wants players, proceed at your own risk”.
I don’t imagine Dale, you, Doug, or anyone is of that mindset; though you are in the business of making money and I don’t fault you for that. I have a plethora of ideas on matters like this, and I will be sending you an email in a day or so; but until then please read what I said, and take it to heart. I know there are many players you want, and many you’d like to keep. Please think about that and all of this when you make decisions.
<S>
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"spies should be hung"
Pheasants are hung, Stodd; men are hanged.
:cool:
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IMO, this is the answer to so many problems:
WWII dogfight arena like the WWI arena.
Perks implemented. (Can you guess why some grow weary of the DA?)
No ords.
no troops.
I'd be there.
With all due respect Skuzzy, you know where I'm coming from...
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I'll admit it, I want everyone to play my way.
I want everyone to play with a little class,
I want everyone to actually fight for the kill, not vulch, pick, ho, or any other thing to AVOID a fight
I want buffs to drop there bombs and fight there way back to LAND
I want people to fight for bases in stead of sneaking them or coming in with such a big horde that there is no fight.
I really don't think its much to ask in a "combat" game really :(
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WWII dogfight arena like the WWI arena.
Perks implemented. (Can you guess why some grow weary of the DA?)
No ords.
no troops.
I'd be there.
Throw in no score whatsoever, disable the "Joe has landed x kills" message, and we'll be on the road to nirvana.
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I want everyone to actually fight for the kill, not vulch, pick, ho, or any other thing to AVOID a fight
I want people to fight for bases in stead of sneaking them or coming in with such a big horde that there is no fight.
I really don't think its much to ask in a "combat" game really :(
Didnt pilots vulch and ho and avoid fights in WWII. Didnt they sneak bases and come in with huge missions?
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Didnt pilots vulch and ho and avoid fights in WWII. Didnt they sneak bases and come in with huge missions?
this isnt wwII its a game. in ww2 u didnt care what the enemy thinks. wwII wasnt about fun. in game we all suppose to be in it for the same thing. having fun.
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Didnt pilots vulch and ho and avoid fights in WWII. Didnt they sneak bases and come in with huge missions?
No, pilots did not avoid fights in WW2. The whole doctrine of the USAAF strategy in the SWPA was to destroy the Japanese air forces in the that theater by forcing the them to fight. The 8th AF employed the same strategy in the ETO, the main object was to destroy the Luftwaffe by making them come up and fight.
ack-ack
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...nvm, wrong thread
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No, pilots did not avoid fights in WW2. The whole doctrine of the USAAF strategy in the SWPA was to destroy the Japanese air forces in the that theater by forcing the them to fight. The 8th AF employed the same strategy in the ETO, the main object was to destroy the Luftwaffe by making them come up and fight.
ack-ack
Exactly, they forced them to fight. which means those that were being attack were once trying to get away, which they couldnt so they had to fight.
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I thought the 8th would just bailout after they dropped their bombs?
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Exactly, they forced them to fight. which means those that were being attack were once trying to get away, which they couldnt so they had to fight.
They forced the Luftwaffe to fight by making them take off and intercept the bombers so the Allied fighters can then engage. It was basically an air war of attrition, by destroying the Luftwaffe, the bombers had an easier time. The same strategy was employed in the Pacific but it was more for keeping the logistical sea supply lanes open.
ack-ack
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It's really very simple and completely understandable; the war winners kill a furball by taking down a base because they think there's a conflict for that base so they fly in and destroy it to help their country advance. They aren't trying to be griefers, just good countrymen because that's their mentality.
Furthermore, this is so understandable that nearly every furball is going to be disrupted in this way. If I want to go buff hunting I just look for the biggest furball on the map and I'll always find buffs. Always. So, if you want "competition" it's already there. Grab a little alt and go meet them.
I'm in a one man "squad" so I'm rarely the beneficiary of someone to clear my six or even odds in my favor. If I were in an actual squad with more people than just me I can assure you we'd be flying into the hoards to bust them up. But the established squads? No... we'll just come to the BBs and whine because the "war winners" ruined our fun or attacked a base no one was defending and complain that there's no competition. Man up and go defend then. I don't know how often I'm a lone or one of only a few defenders. In fact, I spend much more time in-game in a defensive rather than an offensive position. Again, if you really wanted competition it's there.
Everyone can coexist and everyone can have fun at the same time. I know I do all by myself and I play the same game each of you do and I don't have to resort to ratting out missions to do it. Oh, and by and large I s*ck.
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Furballers vs. Basetakers..whichever game you play, there are very different dynamics that play into each.
When you play to furball, you play to kill. You look for the biggest darbar out there and you plan what your attack is going to be. The furball game is mostly dominated by guys that have playing this game for years on end and have become very good at it. Of course in the furball game, you get ganged, HOd, rammed or picked, but the guy that knows this and avoids those situations in a fight and comes out victorious tends to gain some form of respect from his adversaries.
When you play for the real estate game, your goal is make those fields shine in green as soon as possible with whatever it takes to do so. Here also, your plans are very easily thwarted if you get any sort of opposition from the red guys. To play the basetake game, you will loose most of the time if you go in playing fair, so you take down hangers, you HO that guy going after your goon, you de-ack the base so you can vulch. All of which is really frowned upon by EVERYONE. The real estate game is usually dominated by the new subscribers, because lets face it..they wouldn't really stand much of any chance of any sort of victory or sense of accomplishment in this game.
I think what really gets me is the guys that have been playing for years and years here that stay in the phase of "winning the war" mode. You would think the concept of a never ending war with the only perk of having 25 points in each category would bore them to death by now..but obviously it hasn't but hey...its their money.
Bottom line..furballers need base takers. Base takers need furballers. Having both play in the same area provides a healthy competitiveness that we need to keep our interests up and keep us logging in.
My only hopes is that when people play this game, that they should sometimes think if what they are doing would upset them if they were in the same situation. If so..then why are YOU doing it?
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with squads spreading out over multiple countries. Anyone giving them any problems with doing so are the griefers.
Okie dokie :uhoh :bolt:
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Bottom line..furballers need base takers.
They do not.
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Furballers vs. Basetakers..whichever game you play, there are very different dynamics that play into each.
youre forgetting the Historics also
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youre forgetting the Historics also
Exactly.
-Spektor
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It's really very simple and completely understandable; the war winners kill a furball by taking down a base because they think there's a conflict for that base so they fly in and destroy it to help their country advance. They aren't trying to be griefers, just good countrymen because that's their mentality.
Furthermore, this is so understandable that nearly every furball is going to be disrupted in this way. If I want to go buff hunting I just look for the biggest furball on the map and I'll always find buffs. Always. So, if you want "competition" it's already there. Grab a little alt and go meet them.
I'm in a one man "squad" so I'm rarely the beneficiary of someone to clear my six or even odds in my favor. If I were in an actual squad with more people than just me I can assure you we'd be flying into the hoards to bust them up. But the established squads? No... we'll just come to the BBs and whine because the "war winners" ruined our fun or attacked a base no one was defending and complain that there's no competition. Man up and go defend then. I don't know how often I'm a lone or one of only a few defenders. In fact, I spend much more time in-game in a defensive rather than an offensive position. Again, if you really wanted competition it's there.
Everyone can coexist and everyone can have fun at the same time. I know I do all by myself and I play the same game each of you do and I don't have to resort to ratting out missions to do it. Oh, and by and large I s*ck.
Very well said! :salute
There is absolutely nothing wrong with squads spreading out over multiple countries. Anyone giving them any problems with doing so are the griefers.
Seems this was the simple answer that kcfarris was looking for!?!? :aok
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Look at from the view point of TW9 if you may (player Z). Player X found a way to disrupt player Z's preference in game play. Player X called out of course, and did get accomplices, but the end result is the disruption of player Z's ideal.
The catch 22 of your post I originally quoted is that there is currently no game mechanic available for TW9 to disrupt the game play of those who intentionally disrupt his. Let’s pose a hypothetical there are 4 of each on each side. 4 “TW9’s”; and 4 “others”. Caught in the middle unspoken are the players who make enough to show a full bar of radar in the sector on the map in question. That sounds like 20+ players minimum; if I understand the map correctly. Now the “others” think that group of possibly 20 players could be better used attacking / defending a base somewhere else on the map. Those “others” have it in their ability to disrupt the conflict in question with or without help. Possibly they ask for help, possibly they don’t. Either way those 4 (on the same country, acting of their own accord regardless to objection) effected the game play of 4 (minimum) of their country-mates.
What a bunch of nonsense. I can't say it NEVER happens, but cases where people level fields in order to make the furballers go away are maybe one in a hundred, if that. Maybe more like one in a thousand. The other 999 times they're not out to do anything but take the base - even if they don't try to take the base the way you think bases ought to be taken.
I can say that I've never, and I mean never, joined a posted mission and had the person leading it say "Okay, let's go ruin that furball so those guys will have to help take bases." Never. Not rarely, never. It's always a plan to take a base. Maybe some individuals say that, but not guys running missions.
On the other hand, 100% of people ratting out missions are doing it just to sabotage other players on the same side.
I have many, many times either said or heard someone in the squad say "Let's just leave that alone and attack somewhere else, it's nothing but an endless furball that's been going on there for 2 days."
I have some great 1-1 or 2-2 fights that I stumble into randomly, but much bigger than that the furballs tend to become exactly like what ardy describes. Usually they're not dominated by veteran players, they're dominated by the people who fight in packs of ten or more, never get more than 5k from the rest of their huge horde, and heroically jump, ten at a time, on any lone pilot on the other side who dares to come out of his side's horde. Maybe that's not a problem for the 1% of veterans with the skill to beat those odds, but it is for average players. Not clueless idiots, average players, the ones who've been playing more than six months and less than five years, the ones who make up the majority of the player base.
It forces average players into timid play, not because they have no chance of getting kills against other average players, but because they have no chance of getting kills or even learning anything if they take one step out of the cover of their own horde and get devoured by the piranhas. If they want to do anything but get massacred, they have to either (a) fly timidly like everyone else and compete with 10 other guys for each kill, (b) leave the "furball" and hope to find a 1-1 somewhere else on the map, or (c) have something happen that motivates all the players in both hordes to quit flying like milksops and actually get in there and fight.
That's why without exception, and by a long shot, the best large fights I've had have been base take attempts, either defending or attacking.
So yes, the furballers do need the base takers, because when a base is threatened it forces both the attackers and the defenders to roll up their sleeves and actually get in close with the enemy and fight if they want to keep the base, as opposed to dawdling around in your horde waiting for some poor schmuck on the other side to leave his horde. Sure, the veteran players don't need that motivation, but they're as small a portion of furballers as they are of war winners, and the other 49 people in the "furball" do need something to motivate them to actually fight. It's not making anyone help take bases, it's improving the intensity of the fight.
I suspect that's why the numbers in the WW1 arenas dropped to almost nothing once the novelty wore off. It's why I never go in there. I like the planes, but with no larger goal to focus on the action is mind-numbingly boring.
And on the other hand, if someone gets a horde mission up to go level and capture a base with no opposition, what do you furballers care? It's not affecting you at all, because if it's without opposition, it can't be anywhere near your big furball. Aren't they doing exactly what you want them to do, leaving your precious furball alone? So why is it necessary to blow their mission, unless you just want to be obnoxious? You've just gotten to the point where you can rationalize any degree of rude and obnoxious behavior by telling yourself that those guys don't deserve any consideration because they aren't playing the game right like you are.
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I've always found it interesting how the definition of fur-balling is considered.
If you are circling a field waiting for suckers to up and get to a couple thousand feet below you...that is not fur-balling..
If you are encroaching on the base that the enemies are upping from and killing the ack so you can vulch... not fur-balling
If you are meeting halfway at similar altitudes and joining in the fight...not picking off the ones going into a fight...that is fur-balling
Not many in this game understand that...
If you are vulching... I'm helping take down your base..cuz all you are - are dweebs..not furballers...
NwBie
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youre forgetting the Historics also
"Historics" of what? Were all playing on a miniature continents with an equally available plane set, and no nationalistic limitations resources or manpower. And your talking about keeping things historic?
If this game were as historic as some claim it should be there would be such an unprofitably small audience this game probably wouldn't even exist. :rolleyes:
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I've always found it interesting how the definition of fur-balling is considered.
If you are circling a field waiting for suckers to up and get to a couple thousand feet below you...that is not fur-balling..
If you are encroaching on the base that the enemies are upping from and killing the ack so you can vulch... not fur-balling
If you are meeting halfway at similar altitudes and joining in the fight...not picking off the ones going into a fight...that is fur-balling
Not many in this game understand that...
If you are vulching... I'm helping take down your base..cuz all you are - are dweebs..not furballers...
NwBie
when i speak of furballing its in reference to any fight between bases. doesnt have to be co-alt or anything. can be picks or straight up fights. its all furballing.. i dont go into a furball expecting to be co-alt with everybody. especially if i just got done getting down on the deck with someone. someone is eventually going to come in higher than i am and probably pick me. its just how it is in the furball. doesnt make it not one.
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Furballers vs. Basetakers..whichever game you play, there are very different dynamics that play into each.
When you play to furball, you play to kill. You look for the biggest darbar out there and you plan what your attack is going to be. The furball game is mostly dominated by guys that have playing this game for years on end and have become very good at it. Of course in the furball game, you get ganged, HOd, rammed or picked, but the guy that knows this and avoids those situations in a fight and comes out victorious tends to gain some form of respect from his adversaries.
When you play for the real estate game, your goal is make those fields shine in green as soon as possible with whatever it takes to do so. Here also, your plans are very easily thwarted if you get any sort of opposition from the red guys. To play the basetake game, you will loose most of the time if you go in playing fair, so you take down hangers, you HO that guy going after your goon, you de-ack the base so you can vulch. All of which is really frowned upon by EVERYONE. The real estate game is usually dominated by the new subscribers, because lets face it..they wouldn't really stand much of any chance of any sort of victory or sense of accomplishment in this game.
I think what really gets me is the guys that have been playing for years and years here that stay in the phase of "winning the war" mode. You would think the concept of a never ending war with the only perk of having 25 points in each category would bore them to death by now..but obviously it hasn't but hey...its their money.
Bottom line..furballers need base takers. Base takers need furballers. Having both play in the same area provides a healthy competitiveness that we need to keep our interests up and keep us logging in.
My only hopes is that when people play this game, that they should sometimes think if what they are doing would upset them if they were in the same situation. If so..then why are YOU doing it?
I agree completely with your assessment. +2
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The furball game is mostly dominated by guys that have playing this game for years on end and have become very good at it.
Nonsense. There aren't enough of those players to dominate, not the way you, grizz, et al define veterans. They can beat the other furballers, but 95% of the furballers aren't top sticks, so usually the people you're fighting are either newbies or players with some experience, not 5+ year vets. The hordes of newbies and mid-vets (for lack of a better term) are what dominate the furball. Non-elite players get killed a lot more by players of moderate skills than by elite players, just because there are so many more of the former.
If you're an old-timer with uber skills you probably don't see that because they don't dominate you. But your perspective is very different from the vast majority of players.
When you play for the real estate game, your goal is make those fields shine in green as soon as possible with whatever it takes to do so. Here also, your plans are very easily thwarted if you get any sort of opposition from the red guys.
Nonsense. It's about dictating the terms of the fight and getting an early advantage. The truth is they are easily thwarted if there are twice as many defenders who've had 10 minutes to prepare knowing exactly where you're coming from and what planes you're in.
To play the basetake game, you will loose most of the time if you go in playing fair, so you take down hangers, you HO that guy going after your goon, you de-ack the base so you can vulch. All of which is really frowned upon by EVERYONE.
Nonsense. There are thousands of players who don't frown on taking down hangers, and plenty of "furballers" who are only too happy to vulch when they get the chance.
The real estate game is usually dominated by the new subscribers, because lets face it..they wouldn't really stand much of any chance of any sort of victory or sense of accomplishment in this game.
Biggest nonsense of all.
One, new subscribers don't know how to capture bases any more than they know how to dogfight, and it may even be harder for them to take bases, not beause taking bases is harder to do but because the goals and methods are unique to this game whereas ACM and other fighter skills are more apt to transfer from other, similar games.
Two, most of the people doing the things you denigrate are demonstrably not new players. Just look at the roster. I guarantee if you see one guy in Lancs knocking down all the plane hangers at a medium field in two passes, you are NOT looking at a new and inexperienced player.
Three, the fact that a player of moderate skills can't compete at all with grizz or Steve does not mean they can't get kills. Most of the players they meet will not be grizz and Steve, and they stand a good chance of beating them. They are probably less skilled than they would be if they devoted all their time to fighters, but less skilled is a LONG way from no chance. Of course an uber vet can't see that difference, because moderately skilled and unskilled players are equally easy prey for them. Again, look at the roster sometime before talking smack with no basis whatsoever in fact. Most of the guys you see taking down hangers reliably have average fighter scores or better, and some a LOT better.
(Yes, I know score is a bad way to judge skill. But a guy who gets a fair amount of kills is by definition not a guy who only takes bases because he has no prayer of getting fighter kills.)
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Someone's wound a little too tight.
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Nonsense. There aren't enough of those players to dominate, not the way you, grizz, et al define veterans. They can beat the other furballers, but 95% of the furballers aren't top sticks, so usually the people you're fighting are either newbies or players with some experience, not 5+ year vets. The hordes of newbies and mid-vets (for lack of a better term) are what dominate the furball. Non-elite players get killed a lot more by players of moderate skills than by elite players, just because there are so many more of the former.There are so many other players besides grizz in this game that have been playing for years that love the fight and could care less about the "war". They have seen enough to know that although winning the map is something that is implemented in the game to bring on some sort of competetiveness, it most certainly does not replace what this game is about.
If you're an old-timer with uber skills you probably don't see that because they don't dominate you. But your perspective is very different from the vast majority of players. Think again, I would say a good percentage would support me on my oppinion
Nonsense. It's about dictating the terms of the fight and getting an early advantage. The truth is they are easily thwarted if there are twice as many defenders who've had 10 minutes to prepare knowing exactly where you're coming from and what planes you're in. oh gee, where your coming from and what planes your in..lemme guess 20 110s 4 nikis and 9 typhoons and throw in 2 goons, maybe three... base is flashing with no dar..THATS A REAL BRAINER!! what exactly are you dictating? a monkey turning a music box can plan a better strategy
Nonsense. There are thousands of players who don't frown on taking down hangers, and plenty of "furballers" who are only too happy to vulch when they get the chance. they arent furballers, they are called dweebs and greifers
Biggest nonsense of all.
One, new subscribers don't know how to capture bases any more than they know how to dogfight, and it may even be harder for them to take bases, not beause taking bases is harder to do but because the goals and methods are unique to this game whereas ACM and other fighter skills are more apt to transfer from other, similar games.put up a mission..whos gonna join? chances are 139576760 is gonna be your goon guy, so tell me whos really playing the base take game? I have to give out about 10 text squelches a night for some nub wanting people to JOIN MISSION
Two, most of the people doing the things you denigrate are demonstrably not new players. Just look at the roster. I guarantee if you see one guy in Lancs knocking down all the plane hangers at a medium field in two passes, you are NOT looking at a new and inexperienced player.
Three, the fact that a player of moderate skills can't compete at all with grizz or Steve does not mean they can't get kills. Most of the players they meet will not be grizz and Steve, and they stand a good chance of beating them. They are probably less skilled than they would be if they devoted all their time to fighters, but less skilled is a LONG way from no chance. Of course an uber vet can't see that difference, because moderately skilled and unskilled players are equally easy prey for them. Again, look at the roster sometime before talking smack with no basis whatsoever in fact. Most of the guys you see taking down hangers reliably have average fighter scores or better, and some a LOT better.Just putting someone in the tower doesnt mean your a good stick, and your a fool to think that score has anything to do with skill period. Ive seen greats here that could singlehandely thwart off a bunch of red guys and not need any help that to me is skill.
(Yes, I know score is a bad way to judge skill. But a guy who gets a fair amount of kills is by definition not a guy who only takes bases because he has no prayer of getting fighter kills.)
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Someone's wound a little too tight.
If you tell me this watermelon isn't real, one more time! :furious
Hello therapy group, did you miss me? :neener:
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What a bunch of nonsense. I can't say it NEVER happens, but cases where people level fields in order to make the furballers go away are maybe one in a hundred, if that. Maybe more like one in a thousand. The other 999 times they're not out to do anything but take the base - even if they don't try to take the base the way you think bases ought to be taken.
I can say that I've never, and I mean never, joined a posted mission and had the person leading it say "Okay, let's go ruin that furball so those guys will have to help take bases." Never. Not rarely, never. It's always a plan to take a base. Maybe some individuals say that, but not guys running missions.
On the other hand, 100% of people ratting out missions are doing it just to sabotage other players on the same side.
I have many, many times either said or heard someone in the squad say "Let's just leave that alone and attack somewhere else, it's nothing but an endless furball that's been going on there for 2 days."
I have some great 1-1 or 2-2 fights that I stumble into randomly, but much bigger than that the furballs tend to become exactly like what ardy describes. Usually they're not dominated by veteran players, they're dominated by the people who fight in packs of ten or more, never get more than 5k from the rest of their huge horde, and heroically jump, ten at a time, on any lone pilot on the other side who dares to come out of his side's horde. Maybe that's not a problem for the 1% of veterans with the skill to beat those odds, but it is for average players. Not clueless idiots, average players, the ones who've been playing more than six months and less than five years, the ones who make up the majority of the player base.
It forces average players into timid play, not because they have no chance of getting kills against other average players, but because they have no chance of getting kills or even learning anything if they take one step out of the cover of their own horde and get devoured by the piranhas. If they want to do anything but get massacred, they have to either (a) fly timidly like everyone else and compete with 10 other guys for each kill, (b) leave the "furball" and hope to find a 1-1 somewhere else on the map, or (c) have something happen that motivates all the players in both hordes to quit flying like milksops and actually get in there and fight.
That's why without exception, and by a long shot, the best large fights I've had have been base take attempts, either defending or attacking.
So yes, the furballers do need the base takers, because when a base is threatened it forces both the attackers and the defenders to roll up their sleeves and actually get in close with the enemy and fight if they want to keep the base, as opposed to dawdling around in your horde waiting for some poor schmuck on the other side to leave his horde. Sure, the veteran players don't need that motivation, but they're as small a portion of furballers as they are of war winners, and the other 49 people in the "furball" do need something to motivate them to actually fight. It's not making anyone help take bases, it's improving the intensity of the fight.
I suspect that's why the numbers in the WW1 arenas dropped to almost nothing once the novelty wore off. It's why I never go in there. I like the planes, but with no larger goal to focus on the action is mind-numbingly boring.
And on the other hand, if someone gets a horde mission up to go level and capture a base with no opposition, what do you furballers care? It's not affecting you at all, because if it's without opposition, it can't be anywhere near your big furball. Aren't they doing exactly what you want them to do, leaving your precious furball alone? So why is it necessary to blow their mission, unless you just want to be obnoxious? You've just gotten to the point where you can rationalize any degree of rude and obnoxious behavior by telling yourself that those guys don't deserve any consideration because they aren't playing the game right like you are.
I agree with Tralfz, but I'd like to add a few things
The truth is they are easily thwarted if there are twice as many defenders who've had 10 minutes to prepare knowing exactly where you're coming from and what planes you're in.
Thats just down right funny right there. If I could have 30-40 guys standing by to just jump to were ever the next mission is coming in there would never be another base taken EVER! Not only is that not really possible to do... who wants to sit in the tower waiting to launch? it still isn't a fight. It would be a bigger horde crushing a little horde.
One, new subscribers don't know how to capture bases any more than they know how to dogfight,
Your right, but give me an hour and I'll have the freshest newbi bombing at over 200% and yelling for a goon. Bombing is easy to learn. There are not a lot of factors to take into account. Thats why MOST players start out in buffs and GV's. It's why most newbs jump into missions. They get to "help" even with their limited skillset, they get to feel a part of the group, and they get enough protection to last long enough to have a bit of fun.
Like I've said before, too many people put this label on the players....furballer.... landgrabber....win the war types. This is a game that is suppose to be about combat. The new guys are excited by all the things this game has to offer, tanks, fighters, buffs, co-ordinated missions, voice coms, comradary, squads, competition. The old timers have learned that while all that stuff is here most have played them all to death. The only thing that lasts is the fight, the combat, the competition. I think everyone could get along just fine as long as people don't look for the easy way out, the quickest way to avoid a fight.
If your here just to take territory until you own the whole board, go play Monopoly
If your here to only engage when you can't be hurt, go play Microsofts Flight Simulator
This game is all about the fight, thats all most of us "old timers" are looking for. Give us a fight !
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As an old timer, I don't care about base takers or hordes.. they just make for more action.
Where orange is wrong is about the guys killing FH's to end a fight being 1-1000. It's happened twice to a fight I was involved in the last week. On the night of the 31st we had a nice fight going and someone killed the FH's. There was no effort to take the base, no mention of it on country, no follow up with attacks on the town, no goon,... nothing. The guy killed the FH's and that was the extent of anyones', including his, action on the base.
It was grief for grief's sake; someone trying to dictate how others play.
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There are so many other players besides grizz in this game that have been playing for years that love the fight and could care less about the "war".
Never said there weren't.
I said there aren't many people of a comparable skill level who can dominate any fight they're in.
Think again, I would say a good percentage would support me on my oppinion
Never said they wouldn't. What I did say is that the average player's perspective - not opinion - is different from yours, most especially when judging other people's skill. The average player isn't in the top 5%.
they arent furballers, they are called dweebs and greifers
Let me get this straight... You're claiming that everybody agrees with you, because everyone who doesn't agree with you is a dweeb who doesn't count? :headscratch:
Are you truly unable to see the absurdity of that statement? :rolleyes:
Just putting someone in the tower doesnt mean your a good stick, and your a fool to think that score has anything to do with skill period.
Never said it did. What it does prove is that your claim that people only play to take bases because they have no chance of getting kills or having any success in fighters is nonsense.
You're plainly not even bothering to read or process anything I'm actually saying, you're just tossing out the same generic answers you'd have whenever this topic comes up.
Where orange is wrong is about the guys killing FH's to end a fight being 1-1000. It's happened twice to a fight I was involved in the last week. On the night of the 31st we had a nice fight going and someone killed the FH's. There was no effort to take the base, no mention of it on country, no follow up with attacks on the town, no goon,... nothing. The guy killed the FH's and that was the extent of anyones', including his, action on the base.
It was grief for grief's sake; someone trying to dictate how others play.
I don't think that's a safe assumption. But sure, I know it happens sometime, and you're probably right that 1 in 1000 is more than a bit exaggerated. But say it's one in ten, or even one in five. I still don't think it's right to blame that on all the other players who likes to capture bases, and then think that makes it okay to try to ruin anyone's attempts to take bases. I'm not saying you do that, I'm just talking about the people in this thread who said that's what they did.
I don't approve of taking down hangers just to shut down a furball or spoil the game of those fighting there, and if I hear it suggested, I will do my best to convince them it's lame and they shouldn't do it. I don't spend more pixels on that here because no one here has defended doing it.
Over and out. :salute
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I don't think that's a safe assumption. But sure, I know it happens sometime, and you're probably right that 1 in 1000 is more than a bit exaggerated. I still don't think it's right to blame that on all the other players who likes to capture bases,
Huh? all I said about base takers was
I don't care about base takers or hordes.. they just make for more action.
A person who kills FH's and then makes no effort to take the base is a griefer, not a base taker.
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A person who kills FH's and then makes no effort to take the base is a griefer, not a base taker.
Exactly ..... most do it for the attention . Some like the reaction they get by ruining the fun of others .
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Someone's wound a little too tight.
Nonsense!!!!! :furious
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Exactly ..... most do it for the attention . Some like the reaction they get by ruining the fun of others .
No. Absolutely not.
Most do that because they think it helps their team. The true griefers are a minority.
But so are the "true" furballers and the "true" armchair generals ("You are waisting our resources!")
The majority of players may be leaning more to one side or the other, but most aren't "pure" in the way they are playing. But naturally they are not the most vocal players, the extremists and zealots of both ends of the spectrum are.
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Exactly ..... most do it for the attention . Some like the reaction they get by ruining the fun of others .
attention? really? so your saying that some folks just log on and look for fights like this, go drop all the hangers just to get a rise out of the folks that don't care for it,
would it be possible that a fairly new guy or guys for that matter are running buffs cause thats all there good at, show up to the big fight and think there helping out, drop the hangers and no one else picks up the ball for the capture?
I think that there are a lot of possibility's that change the dynamics of the game on any given day so when i see a post like this it sounds like your trolling for attention.
Your fun... my fun...there fun.... whats the difference ? there fun doesn't match up to what you think is fun so you have to throw a few random rocks just to up your post stats? :headscratch:
I don't crap on buildings just to pad my score. i love the fur ball and i cant tell you how many times i show up to a field and the hoard kills everything and there is no more fight but what can you do? complain on the bbs like that's gonna change something, is not complaining griefing ?
that is all
frog
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Exactly ..... most do it for the attention
Now that might just be the biggest load of BS I've ever read here. As I and Lusche already pointed out, they do it because they think they're helping their team.
Of course, you fly fighters or whatever you do to get attention by getting your name in lights right?
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Most do that because they think it helps their team.
Perhaps, but their motvies are moot.
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Someone pass the Advil, please?
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I just log in and do wtf I want. :cool:
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Quote from: oTRALFZo on Yesterday at 05:57:20 PM
they arent furballers, they are called dweebs and greifers
Let me get this straight... You're claiming that everybody agrees with you, because everyone who doesn't agree with you is a dweeb who doesn't count? headscratch
Are you truly unable to see the absurdity of that statement? rolleyes
Talk about poor reading and comprehension skills.....
Orange, your stament was "Nonsense. There are thousands of players who don't frown on taking down hangers, and plenty of "furballers" who are only too happy to vulch when they get the chance. ". All Tralfz was saying is those that vulch, are NOT furballers. Vulchers are "dweebs and griefers".
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Never said it did. What it does prove is that your claim that people only play to take bases because they have no chance of getting kills or having any success in fighters is nonsense.
It is nonsense, but fact is you post on the mission board for a NOE attack, your chances of getting some reputable sticks are slim to none.
The dynamics that go into playing the base taking game makes it so that you need to play that "gamey" sort of game or you chances are, your objective will be lost. This means, deacking, vulching, HOing that guy that is trying to shoot your troops, taking down hangers, camping hangars with GVs, trying hard to sneak bases as soon as possible as not to get any opposition..etc, etc etc. ALL of which I can just promise you would even PIZZ off even the most die hard base taking player in the game if the situation was turned around and done to them. So ask, when was the last time you seen the uberest mission planner become even remotley respected by anyone besides themselves or their herd of wildabeasts that follows them?
The dynamics that go into furballing or even playing this game b/c you like killing things are totally different. Most that play this style knows that putting yourself in bad situations and coming out victorious will earn you respect. Most that play in this category could care less if they had 50 bases or 2, so long as theres some targets somewhere. You play this game long enough and you will come to the realization that map winning is futile. Not everyone cares nor has the time to dedicate to WIN DA WER.
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I've always found it interesting how the definition of fur-balling is considered.
If you are circling a field waiting for suckers to up and get to a couple thousand feet below you...that is not fur-balling..
If you are encroaching on the base that the enemies are upping from and killing the ack so you can vulch... not fur-balling
If you are meeting halfway at similar altitudes and joining in the fight...not picking off the ones going into a fight...that is fur-balling
Not many in this game understand that...
If you are vulching... I'm helping take down your base..cuz all you are - are dweebs..not furballers...
NwBie
This is about as spot on as it gets. :aok
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Most that play in this category could care less if they had 50 bases or 2, so long as theres some targets somewhere.
:aok
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You play this game long enough and you will come to the realization that map winning is futile.
So is killing cartoon pilots in cartoon planes.
So is whinning about other peoples gameplay on th BBS.
And yet..............
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So is killing cartoon pilots in cartoon planes.
So is whinning about other peoples gameplay on th BBS.
And yet..............
Noone is whining here. Im simply stating facts. Noone is going to change the way they play simply b/c someone else says so. I thought forums were meant to have discussions on topics and state oppinions, no?
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id gladly help take a base but dont like the new methods that most do it so i chose to furball. when did this shut down everything and leave town and ack up til last start anyways? use to be pretty standard, vh, ack, town and cap the base. u'd have a whole mission landing kills at the end. anyways i started fighting more when i realised i could get more perks in an hour of flying 205s jug25s and 38js than i would get out of hours or days trying for a reset.
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Noone is whining here. Im simply stating facts. Noone is going to change the way they play simply b/c someone else says so. I thought forums were meant to have discussions on topics and state oppinions, no?
Not saying you specifically but I disagree, there is a lot of whining going on here. As with a a lot of threads here wether they start off as such or not they end up "base takers vs. "furballers". This is a horse that has been beat to a bloody pulp and yet will not die. But like so many mothes to a flame we just keep coming.
Here is one of the truest statements in this thread;
No. Absolutely not.
Most do that because they think it helps their team. The true griefers are a minority.
But so are the "true" furballers and the "true" armchair generals ("You are waisting our resources!")
The majority of players may be leaning more to one side or the other, but most aren't "pure" in the way they are playing. But naturally they are not the most vocal players, the extremists and zealots of both ends of the spectrum are.
I also completely agree with the statement that furballers and basetakers need each other. If not why do the furballers bother with the MA? Isn't that what the DA is for?
I guess I don't fit in either category......wait I fit in both....wait I'm going to make my own category,
I'm in this category; basetaker, furballer, vulcher, picker, GV'er, defender, NOE'er, spawn camper, bomb****, and part time Hoer :D but most of all I'm in the I LOVE THIS FREAKING GAME!!! and can't think of a better way to spend 15 bucks a month. And I think this is where the majority of the AH players fall...
:cheers: :salute
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Now that might just be the biggest load of BS I've ever read here. As I and Lusche already pointed out, they do it because they think they're helping their team.
Of course, you fly fighters or whatever you do to get attention by getting your name in lights right?
Biggest load of crap??? Ha ha ..... If you think some people don't drop fighter hangers at a field that has a good fight going.......just to effect gameplay of others .... then your sticking your head in the sand . I fly fighters because i enjoy it .... not for "my name in lights" If it were up to me I would do away with the kill messages.
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Most do drop them to help, either capture the base or help their countrymen out.
On the the other hand there are those that drop them just to pizz the furballers off. I've seen it, and know it because they brag about it after they have. Luckily it's not that often.
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Biggest load of crap??? Ha ha ..... If you think some people don't drop fighter hangers at a field that has a good fight going.......just to effect gameplay of others .... then your sticking your head in the sand . I fly fighters because i enjoy it .... not for "my name in lights" If it were up to me I would do away with the kill messages.
"just to affect gameplay of others" and "just to get attention" are quite different things. Which is it? I was reacting to your "attention" assertation.
Either way for the majority I don't believe it.
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I got scolded three times in as many weeks for not dropping the hangars. The Generals were quick to voice their displeasure that my single engine aircraft was opting to kill wirbles and disobey direct orders to kill those mean hangars.
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Furballers vs. Basetakers..whichever game you play, there are very different dynamics that play into each.
When you play to furball, you play to kill. You look for the biggest darbar out there and you plan what your attack is going to be.
When you play for the real estate game, your goal is make those fields shine in green as soon as possible with whatever it takes to do so. Here also, your plans are very easily thwarted if you get any sort of opposition from the red guys. To play the basetake game, you will loose most of the time if you go in playing fair, so you take down hangers, you HO that guy going after your goon, you de-ack the base so you can vulch. All of which is really frowned upon by EVERYONE. The real estate game is usually dominated by the new subscribers, because lets face it..they wouldn't really stand much of any chance of any sort of victory or sense of accomplishment in this game.
I think what really gets me is the guys that have been playing for years and years here that stay in the phase of "winning the war" mode. You would think the concept of a never ending war with the only perk of having 25 points in each category would bore them to death by now..but obviously it hasn't but hey...its their money.
Bottom line..furballers need base takers. Base takers need furballers. Having both play in the same area provides a healthy competitiveness that we need to keep our interests up and keep us logging in.
My only hopes is that when people play this game, that they should sometimes think if what they are doing would upset them if they were in the same situation. If so..then why are YOU doing it?
My God, you waffle more than John Kerry. You say that both styles of play are necessary to sustain healthy play, but then turn around and insult 'land grabbers' as Noobs because VETs should be bored of that style. By the way, I would like to see your data to support that the real estate game is dominated by new subscribers. Had you really wanted to prove your point, you certainly could have examined at least some percentage of 'top' players and checked to see how many bases they have or have not taken. At least then your statement could have merit. On the other hand, your unsupported statement (which is opinion) being represented as fact, has no more merit or basis than some idiot making a blanket statement that "all illegal immigrants are stupid, alcoholics, who drive dunk."
As to the point regarding the bombers shutting down the furball.... Again, one would have to know the 'bombers' motivation. If it is for the sole purpose of trying to ruin others fun, you are 100% correct - it should be frowned upon and stopped. However, as others have stated, they could see the furball, assume there is a contested battle and shut down the field to further 'their sides' cause. (Might have done the wrong thing, but for the right reason.) Or you might consider that the pickers in the furball were winning out and pushing the fight back to the 'bombers' bases. Once the furball has been pushed too close to one side, that side can no longer get the altitude to mount a proper defense; the result, they get shot down again and the fight gets pushed even further toward the base. Eventually, there exists a vulch opportunity. Therefore, an enterprising bomber ups from a rear base and takes down the hangers at opposing field. Thus, the fight is able to get pushed back toward the enemy field and the furball can continue back on more neutral ground.
Again, you can't make a blanket statement that all 'hanger bangers' are fun killers. If you want to sustain your furball, then have a few guys stay high and wait for the bombers -- when they come hanger banging who will be the more surprised now (assuming 999000 is not in the gun) :salute
Now, for the record, I am not supporting one style of play or the other. They are all a part of the game that HTC designed. Let people play, encourage good sportsmanship, and enjoy the game. What I am denouncing is people who assume that furballing is the elitist skill and anyone who disagrees must be a noob because "no self-respecting vet" should be interested in base captures. If that is your mentality, I would encourage your to bend over and kiss me right in the crack of my azz. :salute
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My God, you waffle more than John Kerry. You say that both styles of play are necessary to sustain healthy play, but then turn around and insult 'land grabbers' as Noobs because VETs should be bored of that style. By the way, I would like to see your data to support that the real estate game is dominated by new subscribers.
It's great fun busting up land grab missions, as it is the best seal clubbing the game has to offer. Hate to say it, but I think the AI drones in offline practice are more of a threat than some of the win the war players. At least the drones don't auger. Personally I need the WtW gameplay because some of the best killin/fun to be had is when you can get 10-15 seals in the same area all with one thing in mind, capture teh base!
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It's great fun busting up land grab missions, as it is the best seal clubbing the game has to offer. Hate to say it, but I think the AI drones in offline practice are more of a threat than some of the win the war players. At least the drones don't auger. Personally I need the WtW gameplay because some of the best killin/fun to be had is when you can get 10-15 seals in the same area all with one thing in mind, capture teh base!
I agree completely, it is GREAT fun busting a mission. And yes, they are often easy kills because they are focused on other things beside the bogey flying up their tail-pipe. :D But, the fact that they are heavy with bombs, or are focused on the town, does not mean they are a flying phone-number guy who is happy to be able to stay up past 8:00p.m. Each aspect of the game is interdependent. The fact is there are a lot of newer players who get drawn into missions (for obvious reasons previously stated). But that does not mean they are all noobs and it does not mean they are some lesser-class of player because they don't play one way or the other.
On the other hand, grizz, as one who is known for being a good stick and proclaimed - in it for the fight type - one could argue that there is no challenge in 'clubbing baby seals' and you doing something nefarious in playing that way. (I wouldn't make that argument, but based on the responses above, one COULD make it.) :D
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On the other hand, grizz, as one who is known for being a good stick and proclaimed - in it for the fight type - one could argue that there is no challenge in 'clubbing baby seals' and you doing something nefarious in playing that way. (I wouldn't make that argument, but based on the responses above, one COULD make it.) :D
Well you are right, there is no challenge in clubbing a seal on the individual scale, but it's damn fun. The challenge is clubbing as many as you can. I'm not a furballer, I'm a horde buster baby. :cool:
I get my 1v1z in the DA. Looking for good fights in the MA makes me lol.
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My God, you waffle more than John Kerry. You say that both styles of play are necessary to sustain healthy play, but then turn around and insult 'land grabbers' as Noobs because VETs should be bored of that style. By the way, I would like to see your data to support that the real estate game is dominated by new subscribers. Had you really wanted to prove your point, you certainly could have examined at least some percentage of 'top' players and checked to see how many bases they have or have not taken. At least then your statement could have merit. On the other hand, your unsupported statement (which is opinion) being represented as fact, has no more merit or basis than some idiot making a blanket statement that "all illegal immigrants are stupid, alcoholics, who drive dunk."
As to the point regarding the bombers shutting down the furball.... Again, one would have to know the 'bombers' motivation. If it is for the sole purpose of trying to ruin others fun, you are 100% correct - it should be frowned upon and stopped. However, as others have stated, they could see the furball, assume there is a contested battle and shut down the field to further 'their sides' cause. (Might have done the wrong thing, but for the right reason.) Or you might consider that the pickers in the furball were winning out and pushing the fight back to the 'bombers' bases. Once the furball has been pushed too close to one side, that side can no longer get the altitude to mount a proper defense; the result, they get shot down again and the fight gets pushed even further toward the base. Eventually, there exists a vulch opportunity. Therefore, an enterprising bomber ups from a rear base and takes down the hangers at opposing field. Thus, the fight is able to get pushed back toward the enemy field and the furball can continue back on more neutral ground.
Again, you can't make a blanket statement that all 'hanger bangers' are fun killers. If you want to sustain your furball, then have a few guys stay high and wait for the bombers -- when they come hanger banging who will be the more surprised now (assuming 999000 is not in the gun) :salute
Now, for the record, I am not supporting one style of play or the other. They are all a part of the game that HTC designed. Let people play, encourage good sportsmanship, and enjoy the game. What I am denouncing is people who assume that furballing is the elitist skill and anyone who disagrees must be a noob because "no self-respecting vet" should be interested in base captures. If that is your mentality, I would encourage your to bend over and kiss me right in the crack of my azz. :salute
Lawman, your only reading what you wanna hear. If you took as only noobs fly the base take game, then so be it. Im not an exact statistics guy (waiting for lusche to chime in), but from experience you are more likely to have guys that are relativly new fly those NOE missions and try to win maps than you are to have guys that have been playing this game who just like to kill things. They wanna be part of something big so even if they fly these missions, they manage to take down one ack gun, or accidently bomb the undestructable, when the base turns green, its a sense of accomplishment.
I remember you from way back, I know you like to join missions for the comradary. The joy of flying with a bunch of buddies all with the same goal. Also Ive never seen you as the type to complain, but ask yourself this: would what I was doing tick me off if it was done to me? I have seen plenty of times on 200 the whines of "HOARDES" coming from guys that are the first to join the same type missions when tables are turned and suddenly they are the ones having to fight them.
Again, if you play the base take game, you are required to play a "gamey" type game..admit it!! You need the #s to back you up, You need to remove the opposition thats fighting you back or your goal will not be reached.
Theres a reason why these Mega-squads are hated, and why is that? Im no member of any elitist club, nor am I sportin the cape and tights for justice and humanity, nor do I claim that my playing habbits fall in the codes of honor. Im stating how I feel on certain aspects of gameplay. If the above really upsets me, then I have the power to log off or join another arena if I want to.
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I agree completely, it is GREAT fun busting a mission. And yes, they are often easy kills because they are focused on other things beside the bogey flying up their tail-pipe. :D But, the fact that they are heavy with bombs, or are focused on the town, does not mean they are a flying phone-number guy who is happy to be able to stay up past 8:00p.m. Each aspect of the game is interdependent. The fact is there are a lot of newer players who get drawn into missions (for obvious reasons previously stated). But that does not mean they are all noobs and it does not mean they are some lesser-class of player because they don't play one way or the other.
On the other hand, grizz, as one who is known for being a good stick and proclaimed - in it for the fight type - one could argue that there is no challenge in 'clubbing baby seals' and you doing something nefarious in playing that way. (I wouldn't make that argument, but based on the responses above, one COULD make it.) :D
Do you have data to support these facts? :D
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This is about as spot on as it gets. :aok
If you are meeting halfway at similar altitudes and joining in the fight...not picking off the ones going into a fight...that is fur-balling
Not many in this game understand that..
so how many times do you turn into a fur ball and find a nice 1v1 only to get picked almost every time. it's like cryin bought the HO,
Evan when i duck to avoid the HO i still get hit sometimes. to assume that a good co alt fur ball will be the pinnacle of honor is absurd so as many others do, i Will turn to tactics that are dictated by the situation on a moment to moment basis.
Is this a bad thing, I don't really care. If clubbing baby seals be your thing, more power to ya.
If land grabbing be your thing or gettin furry or just the plain old pick n vultch. WHO CARES !!!! if you care that much then maybe it's time to turn the puter off for a while and go to rehab.
where is the fun in cryin bought other folks not following game play as you think it should be played...
froger <-----my 15 bucks payed for the month, I do wtf i wanna do.
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Biggest load of crap??? Ha ha ..... If you think some people don't drop fighter hangers at a field that has a good fight going.......just to effect gameplay of others .... then your sticking your head in the sand . I fly fighters because i enjoy it .... not for "my name in lights" If it were up to me I would do away with the kill messages.
PCP ain't good for ya, makes ya angry...kills brain cells :neener:
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It's great fun busting up land grab missions, as it is the best seal clubbing the game has to offer. Hate to say it, but I think the AI drones in offline practice are more of a threat than some of the win the war players. At least the drones don't auger. Personally I need the WtW gameplay because some of the best killin/fun to be had is when you can get 10-15 seals in the same area all with one thing in mind, capture teh base!
Nothing is more satisfying than stumbling over an NOE mission and then single-handedly destroying every last one of them.
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Last night the WM's decided to switch to Rook. Flying in the vicinity of ElGuapo, ELK, GhstDncr and others, was nothing short of hilarious. :joystick:
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Nothing is more satisfying than stumbling over an NOE mission and then single-handedly destroying every last one of them.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/operation_bozo.gif)
:devil
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"Historics" of what? Were all playing on a miniature continents with an equally available plane set, and no nationalistic limitations resources or manpower. And your talking about keeping things historic?
If this game were as historic as some claim it should be there would be such an unprofitably small audience this game probably wouldn't even exist. :rolleyes:
Oy. When people mean Historics they mean the people who want to try and either fly missions to a historic accuracy such as 5- 4 P51Ds formation covering 36 B24s to a target such as a base or 3 and then HQ or people who fly FSO or snapshots
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Last night the WM's decided to switch to Rook. Flying in the vicinity of ElGuapo, ELK, GhstDncr and others, was nothing short of hilarious. :joystick:
WM's are a fun bunch to fly around or with
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SQUAD, COUNTRY & SHEEP
Long live ROOKLAND! :rock
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I just log in and do wtf I want. :cool:
The nerve..............
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SHEEP GOOD :aok