Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: EskimoJoe on March 11, 2011, 01:32:15 AM
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From my local news station
http://www.ktuu.com/news/sns-rt-news-us-japan-quaketre72a0ss-20110311,0,6781242.story
Scary footage. Scroll down for more info.
"TOKYO (Reuters) - A massive 8.9 magnitude quake hit northeast Japan Friday, causing many injuries, fires and a 13-ft tsunami along parts of the country's coastline, NHK television and witnesses reported.
There were several strong aftershocks and a warning of a 32-foot tsunami following the quake, which also caused buildings to shake violently in the capital Tokyo..."
"The U.S. Geological Survey earlier verified a magnitude of 7.9 at a depth of 15.1 miles and located the quake 81 miles east of Sendai, on the main island of Honshu. It later upgraded it to 8.8."
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Coastal regions of Alaska (particularly SE AK) are now under Tsunami Warning.
Hawaii is under Tsunami warning, as well as others in the area (Guam,
Indonesia, the Philippines, etc.)
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I'm sure if you've been watching the news, you know that
most of USA's West Coast is under Tsunami Warning.
If you live under a rock playing Aces High all day, now you know.
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I hope Rolex is OK. The news footage from Japan looks like some CGI disaster movie. 30ft high tsunami just mowing over everything in it's path.
Tsunami Warnings for Hawaii, Alaska and the entire US west coast.
:pray
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I don't recall if Rolex is in that area of Japan.
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The quake was felt pretty hard in Tokyo, but most of the damage is
further (aprox. 300miles) north. I believe there is ~4million homes
without power in Japan as of an hour and a half ago.
The situation is developing on CNN, FOX, more than likely MSNBC
and BBC as well by now.
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Rolex is somewhere in Japan i thought...
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CNN just said it's gonna hit Hawaii in about an hour, then it's gonna hit the U.S West coast at 7:20-30 am PST, and it looks like it's gonna hit Hawaii hard.
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A fire broke out in the turbine building of Onagawa nuclear plant in Miyagi Prefecture on Friday, Kyodo News reported
This does not look good, hope they get that under control, I also read that they started an emergency core cooling system.
Best wishes to all those involved...
Strip
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This does not look good, hope they get that under control, I also read that they started an emergency core cooling system.
Best wishes to all those involved...
Strip
Yeah I caught that part of the story too, hopefully they can get it under control.
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I'm unsure if it's the same fire that you mentioned, but CNN mentioned
that there was a large fire that was put under control near Tokyo.
There was a similar report that declared a state of emergency around
one nuclear reactor somewhere in Japan, unsure of it's location now,
however they said that there weren't any known radiation leaks.
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:pray
I know most tsunamis from earthquakes dont hit Hawaii, but this earthquake is huge...I'd be running for high grounds right about now....I hope everyone will be okay.
Do we have any Jap players on the game?
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The reactor mentioned in my quote is the one that has declared a state of emergency, the first nuclear plant to do so in Japan.
(http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2011-03/photo_verybig_126112.jpg)
Wow....
Strip
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The reactor mentioned in my quote is the one that has declared a state of emergency, the first nuclear plant to do so in Japan.
(http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2011-03/photo_verybig_126112.jpg)
Wow....
Strip
I saw that on CNN, I believe that was an oil refinery that was on fire, not the nuclear plant.
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On a positive note, Japan and Hawaii have excellent tsunami protection plans. The
wave headed for Hawaii is 6 feet tall and traveling 500 mph according the news.
It will make landfall in less than an hour apparently....
:pray
trax1, according to the live news and the article that was pulled from it is indeed the nuclear plant.
Strip
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trax1, according to the live news and the article that was pulled from it is indeed the nuclear plant.
Strip
Not sure about that, like I said they were showing that footage on CNN saying it was an oil refinery, and then I just saw it on my local Fox news again showing that footage saying it was an oil refinery that was on fire. As for the nuclear plant all they've said was that a cooling system failed, but there was no leak of radiation.
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Strip, that Tsunami will hit Hawaii in about twenty minutes. ~4AM AKST, ~3AM local time.
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I hope so, lot easier to let a refinery burn than a nuke plant.....might be a bit harder to put out though.
Wonder if there are live feeds from Hawaii.....
Strip
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Yeah here I found the video of it, go to 1:15 in the clip and it shows the refinery and talks about it on fire, and they talk about the nuclear plants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYT6BjfBro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYT6BjfBro)
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I don't recall ever seeing structures like those in a nuke facility.
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Wonder if there are live feeds from Hawaii.....
Strip
Heres a live feed looking at the shore line, kinda dark out still though.
http://www.ustream.tv/cbsnews#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://mashable.com/2010/02/27/hawaii-tsunami-warning/&medium=522594 (http://www.ustream.tv/cbsnews#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://mashable.com/2010/02/27/hawaii-tsunami-warning/&medium=522594)
Edit: well they were just showing a feed of the shore line, but now it's news, maybe they'll go back.
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Thanks Trax. Any idea if that's the shore facing tsunami direction?
.. That's a news channel stream, not a pure webcam.
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I don't recall ever seeing structures like those in a nuke facility.
Just a quote from the youtube link posted above :
"... Right now you're looking at live pictures of an oil refinery in xxx prefecture in Japan,
but according to the Prime Minister there have been no damage to nuclear powerplants
in the quake-hit area..."
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There's a couple of people sat on Waikiki beach. Guess they want a front row seat.
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Ok found a link to a live feed, you need Microsoft Silverlight.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=176904&nav=menu55_1_1 (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/category.asp?C=176904&nav=menu55_1_1)
There's a couple of people sat on Waikiki beach. Guess they want a front row seat.
Yeah I see them, the news people were even saying if you know them tell them to leave, thats it's not very smart to be sitting there.
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8 foot waves have been reported hitting Midway, 3-8foot waves expected
to hit Honolulu within 10-20 minutes now.
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:pray
Do we have any Jap players on the game?
Yes, I believe we have a handful.
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8 foot waves have been reported hitting Midway, 3-8foot waves expected
to hit Honolulu within 10-20 minutes now.
Yeah CBS is talking to a guy there and he said the last buoy reading has it to hit at 8ft at 7:20 CST, so about 10 more mins.
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well lets hope everyone gets thru this tsunami alive. dont need more casualaties as it is. :pray
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CNN is reporting that they are evacuating an area 3K's around a nuclear power plant in Japan because of the cooling system failure, they said it's just precautionary because of the lack of being able to keep things cool.
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CNN is reporting that they are evacuating an area 3K around a nuclear power plant in Japan because of the cooling system failure, they said it's just precautionary because of the lack of being able to keep things cool.
I heard ~30kilometers from CNN, and that there was a possible
radiation leak however nothing confirmed. They said that the
plant wasn't producing optimum power output.
Again, just precautions for the worst.
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You can start to see it on the live stream now.
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5098/5517456632_df67ae4664_o.jpg)
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You can start to see it on the live stream now.
It's been confirmed on the news that the first waves have started hitting,
with reminders that the first waves are not always the worst.
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im watching the live hawaii cam.
We got a call (I've been up for 2 days) from our Squad leaders to stay up and alert in case they call us over there.
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Good luck to the people in the Pacific. :pray
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WOW! Here it comes.
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200-300 bodies found on the coastline near Sendai according to the live feed.
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200-300 bodies found on the coastline near Sendai according to the live feed.
Yea, just heard that.
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The big waves coming, look at the water pulling away from the shore, they said it's pulled back 300ft already.
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it's about to get VERY ugly.
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it's about to get VERY ugly.
Not according to this math major here :P
Still though, hoping for the best.
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Kauai just got a 8 foot wave!
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:pray
for low loss in human life
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Anyone else seen that video of that huge whirlpool that formed off the coast of Japan? That thing was crazy looking, I mean it was massive, and you could see a boat that was caught in it.
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2-300 bodies so far.
Travel train is missing.
At least the fire at the nuclear power plant went out.
The water keeps receding.
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At least the fire at the nuclear power plant went out.
Yeah the fire went out, but now they're having trouble keeping the nuclear material cool because of power outages so they can't circulating the water in the tanks that cools it.
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:(
Yeh, that mass of water and debris that was just plowing everything from its path sure looked something that truly makes one loss with words.
In addition to that train I read at least one ship with about 100 people in it is gone aswell.
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:(
Yeh, that mass of water and debris that was just plowing everything from its path sure looked something that truly makes one loss with words.
In addition to that train I read at least one ship with about 100 people in it is gone aswell.
It was a ferry, they have tried to reach it via radio but haven't gotten anything back
last I heard. They fear it may have gone under or have been swept out to sea.
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Is this it Trax? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iulpCM9DlTA
Tuned into the first Hawaii news feed just now and a caltech rep described a full size container cargo ship being pulled out of harbor and spun around like a toy. Not sure if that was today or a previous occurrence.
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Anyone else seen that video of that huge whirlpool that formed off the coast of Japan? That thing was crazy looking, I mean it was massive, and you could see a boat that was caught in it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709856
there you can watch the whirlpool
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This reminds me of what happened after the big tsunami. It's just as sickening.
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Is this it Trax? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iulpCM9DlTA
Tuned into the first Hawaii news feed just now and a caltech rep described a full size container cargo ship being pulled out of harbor and spun around like a toy. Not sure if that was today or a previous occurrence.
Yeah thats it, I wonder what exactly caused it to happen, and be that big.
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Yeah thats it, I wonder what exactly caused it to happen, and be that big.
They said it was some distance offshore, so I'd guess it was directly over
the epicenter of the quake.
Absolutely crazy. Looks like my toy battleship spinning in the whirlpool after
draining the bathtub when I was little.
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Howdy...
My power just came back on a few minutes ago and it's 11:15 pm Friday. Unbelievable is all I can say. There were 4 different quakes within 30 minutes that spread across the entire Pacific tectonic plate just offshore. I live close to the second one - a 7.4 quake.
The first (8.8 magnitude) massive one was 300 km north of me. It was so strong that I was thrown around like a rag doll inside a stopped car and could not get out. The car (Mercedes station wagon)was bouncing like a toy. My wife was outdoors in a clear area and could barely keep standing. And that was 300km from the quake. The news is reporting that it was the largest quake ever recorded in Japanese history. The aftershocks have been continuous and very strong.
1. The photo above is a gas facility near Tokyo, not a nuclear power plant.
2. There is no emergency at the nuclear plant in Fukushima. People within 3 km are being evacuated because there is still a possibility of more tsunamis in the area. It is precautionary.
3. If this had been closer to Tokyo, I couldn't even imagine the casualties.
4. It has been reported that this such a rare tectonic event that it's possible there could be another within the next week.
There have been three aftershocks as I wrote this, that's how frequently they are happening, even after 8 hours after the first quake. We are very lucky and have no damage at all to our place. A lot of people are not as lucky.
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Glad to hear you're okay Rolex :salute
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Howdy...
My power just came back on a few minutes ago and it's 11:15 pm Friday. Unbelievable is all I can say. There were 4 different quakes within 30 minutes that spread across the entire Pacific tectonic plate just offshore. I live close to the second one - a 7.4 quake.
The first (8.8 magnitude) massive one was 300 km north of me. It was so strong that I was thrown around like a rag doll inside a stopped car and could not get out. The car (Mercedes station wagon)was bouncing like a toy. My wife was outdoors in a clear area and could barely keep standing. And that was 300km from the quake. The news is reporting that it was the largest quake ever recorded in Japanese history. The aftershocks have been continuous and very strong.
1. The photo above is a gas facility near Tokyo, not a nuclear power plant.
2. There is no emergency at the nuclear plant in Fukushima. People within 3 km are being evacuated because there is still a possibility of more tsunamis in the area. It is precautionary.
3. If this had been closer to Tokyo, I couldn't even imagine the casualties.
4. It has been reported that this such a rare tectonic event that it's possible there could be another within the next week.
There have been three aftershocks as I wrote this, that's how frequently they are happening, even after 8 hours after the first quake. We are very lucky and have no damage at all to our place. A lot of people are not as lucky.
Glad that you are ok. Keep safe
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Let me just say again that there has been no report of any fire or cooling problem at the power plant. My keyboard is bouncing from another aftershock.
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Let me just say again that there has been no report of any fire or cooling problem at the power plant.
Well it's all over the news here Rolex, CNN has even shown video of the people at the nuclear facility talking about the cooling problems because of the lack of power to circulate the water in the cooling tanks, maybe there just not wanting to report it in Japan for some reason, and they did report a fire there.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2 (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2)
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I wish your family and friends the safest wishes Rolex. :airplane:
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Well it's all over the news here Rolex, CNN has even shown video of the people at the nuclear facility talking about the cooling problems because of the lack of power to circulate the water in the cooling tanks, maybe there just not wanting to report it in Japan for some reason, and they did report a fire there.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2 (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2)
Perhaps CNN is getting their information jumbled up.
Either way, Rolex, be sure to let us know if/how us commoners can help. Good to hear you're safe for now :salute
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Well it's all over the news here Rolex, CNN has even shown video of the people at the nuclear facility talking about the cooling problems because of the lack of power to circulate the water in the cooling tanks, maybe there just not wanting to report it in Japan for some reason, and they did report a fire there.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2 (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2)
I watched him on TV and that is not what he said in the news conference. So, I don't know what to say?
I'm in the middle of another big quake this minute. This is astounding.
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Perhaps CNN is getting their information jumbled up.
Either way, Rolex, be sure to let us know if/how us commoners can help. Good to hear you're safe for now :salute
I don't think so, like I said they had video of someone from the plant talking to people about the problems that they're having, and that things aren't going as planned.
Just saw what Rolex posted, you would know what he was saying better then me as you actually speak the language.
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(http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20110311&t=2&i=359172893&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-11T144354Z_01_BTRE72A13S300_RTROPTP_0_TSUNAMI)
Projected timeline of tsunami wave.
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Either way whatever is happening at the plant I'm sure it doesn't pose a threat and they'll have it under control.
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(http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20110311&t=2&i=359172893&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-11T144354Z_01_BTRE72A13S300_RTROPTP_0_TSUNAMI)
Projected timeline of tsunami wave.
Wow, look at that, it takes almost a full day to reach South America.
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Wow, look at that, it takes almost a full day to reach South America.
How fast dose a tsunami movies?
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How fast dose a tsunami movies?
I think on the news they said about 500mph.
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I think on the news they said about 500mph.
WOW! :bolt:
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I hope the plant is OK, too!
Japanese, as a rule, stay pretty calm in situations like these.
Thanks for your concern, guys Appreciate it. :salute
(I just watched a replay of the news conference and he simply said that people within 3 km were being evacuated in case there were any unexpected problems from future quakes or tsunamis, but there were no problems now.)
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How fast dose a tsunami movies?
i heard estimated 300mph from that earlier video feed in hawaii...but the wave action in the camera didn't look any more than 30-40mph...dunno, could be talking about initial speed from the epicenter... :headscratch:
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i heard estimated 300mph from that earlier video feed in hawaii...but the wave action in the camera didn't look any more than 30-40mph...dunno, could be talking about initial speed from the epicenter... :headscratch:
Until it gets into shallow water it's roughly 500 mph. Once it gets to the shallows, gravity and friction work against it and slows it dramatically.
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Until it gets into shallow water it's roughly 500 mph. Once it gets to the shallows, gravity and friction work against it and slows it dramatically.
Which then, as I understand it, cause the tsunami type waves.
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Its sapposed to hit Crescent City pretty soon here, CNN had people still running across its beach. Hope they get off soon :pray
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Here are some photos: Link>> (http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/03/earthquake-in-japan/100022/)
One news agency is saying that about 90,000 people are reported as missing.
The large quake was 160 times stronger than the one that hit New Zealand last month. Maybe that puts it in perspective...
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Glad you are ok, Rolex. Aren't Hayabusa and Busa in Japan as well?
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I think we also had a couple new members from the FA community from Japan.
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I had a squaddie from Japan named hirohara a couple years ago, I hope he's alright.
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That giant fireball is something else...
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90,000??? What news agency is saying that?
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90,000??? What news agency is saying that?
looking at those photos rolex linked to...that migh be an under estimate by the time things settle down enough for a real damage assessment... :O
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looking at those photos rolex linked to...that migh be an under estimate by the time things settle down enough for a real damage assessment... :O
Yeah, I can believe it. I just wanted to know which agency was saying that already.
I hope we can get them help ASAP. Does anyone have friends in the USAF based in Japan?
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Al Jazeera just reported that the pressure inside one of the nuclear reactors is working...I'd heard that this reactor was safe a few hours ago, but this doesn't sound good at all...
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American nuclear power plants are more than capable of surviving earthquakes. I would imagine Japanese nukes have even more safety features built in.
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The only place that will most likely will get damage from the tsunami in the U.S. is Crescent City, Cail. Anybody near or in the city?
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The reactors are not damaged by the quake. The three affected plants automatically shut down with an earthquake. It is not like throwing a light switch. They are hot and have to cool.
The one plant in question is having trouble generating enough electricity to run pumps for the coolant.
It's a terrible mess over there. I was watching it on tv this morn. Saw cars driving down the road and the surge overtaking them. I believe the death toll will be high. Of course one is too many. Men, women, and children........ just terrible.
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The reactors are not damaged by the quake. The three affected plants automatically shut down with an earthquake. It is not like throwing a light switch. They are hot and have to cool.
The one plant in question is having trouble generating enough electricity to run pumps for the coolant.
It's a terrible mess over there. I was watching it on tv this morn. Saw cars driving down the road and the surge overtaking them. I believe the death toll will be high. Of course one is too many. Men, women, and children........ just terrible.
There are multiple redundant systems for keeping reactors cool. There is no single point of failure.
Everything I have heard shows the plant following standard emergency procedures, including evacuation of those within emergency event perimeters.
While no doubt things are very stressful at the plant right now, this is the sort of thing we in the nuclear industry train for extensively.
Of course listening to the media would lead one to believe a reactor is about to explode.
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This one 6.6
Jeeeez Louise!!
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aftershock
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Reports say the plant is over temp but still considered safe.
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This one 6.6
Jeeeez Louise!!
Japan getting a lot of them.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php)
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aftershock
new location 105 miles north of tokyo.
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Japan getting a lot of them.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php)
Damn !
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Good news you and your family are ok Rolex :salute
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Do you think the death toll will be close to the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004?
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Do you think the death toll will be close to the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004?
Nope.
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Do you think the death toll will be close to the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004?
I sure as hell hope not
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More news now that the suns coming up. I'm sure it won't be pretty. Keep safe Rolex.
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I can't seem to find a source, but I am hearing 80,000 feared missing.
And a Bullet Train appears to be swept away.
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I don't recall ever seeing structures like those in a nuke facility.
That's because nuclear plants don't usually have oil refining equipment and seperators.
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Of course listening to the media would lead one to believe a reactor is about to explode.
Yup, and people's general lack of knowledge on nuclear power reactors, while aparently showing so much concern about any threat to safety they may pose, are extremely uneducated in their operations and procedures. $50 says even though all will end well for the reactors, the media making up bull about pressures rising and "she's gonna blow!" in the aftermath of this disaster will probabley do more harm to the industry than the obvious good job they've been doing so far.
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The Tsunami height map measured.
(http://images.tbd.com/weather/energy-map_606.jpg)
Japan getting a lot of them.
(http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php]http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php)
Yup, here is another map from that website showing 152 earthquakes so far...
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_40.php (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_40.php)
:pray to Japan and other countries and its victims.
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:(
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Glad your ok Rolex . All I can do is :pray for you all .
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Glad your ok Rolex. Can you find any info about Yokohama? I have inlaws there and we have not heard anything.
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It's 8 am, Saturday in Japan. The weather is beautiful, but Japan is a mess.
- Kyodo news ( a print news agency) reported last night on their English website that 88,000 people were missing. I don't know the veracity of that. I've not seen anything similar reported on TV today.
- TV news is reporting only that "over 1,000" are confirmed dead. I don't think anyone can estimate the total casualties yet.
- I've spoken to a friend in Yokohama and all the power was restored last night. There was little damage (it's further south), so I wouldn't worry about relatives there, since no casualties reported. The phone system is jammed, so don't expect calls.
- I just watched a report on the Fukushima plant. They are going to vent (it's filtered) to relieve some pressure, and there will be a small amount to radiation released in the process, but it's an insignificant amount. The evacuation is a precaution, not a necessity. There are more important problems and it's not being reported as something people need to panic about.
- The quakes have been relentless. We didn't get any sleep, as we were awakened throughout the night with quakes, and there have been three so far as I write this.
I hate earthquakes. Every quake/aftershock we've had since the big ones yesterday are as big as anything I've felt before in Japan. Every time another quake starts, and the house and furniture begin to rattle and shake, you don't know if this is going to be another big one, or a lesser one than yesterday.
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stay safe rolex...
:(
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Holy crap Rolex. Are you to the point yet where you just leave all the pictures, lamps and CD cases on the floor because you are tired of picking them up? Thank you for giving us a direct report, and I wish you and everyone in Japan a speedy recovery and the best possible luck in finding the hurt and injured.
Gombatte ne?
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razy to think that Japan will never look the same as in the shore line moved inland and that it will be that way forever....Crazy stuff. I witnessed the natural terraform of Japan live (on the webcams put up on buildings).....cool. (kinda lol)
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm)
Cross your fingers folks.
Warhead - what say ya'll?
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm)
Cross your fingers folks.
Warhead - what say ya'll?
MY GOD! Pray that nothing happens. :pray
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oh man, i hope not. alot of my girlfriends family is over there, they know where her mums mum is, but not her mums aunt, and her family is worried sick. please please PLEEASE let this all pass :pray:
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I wouldn't worry too much - from my moderately limited knowledge of nuclear power, the worst you'd get is a steam explosion (like Chernobyl, but with plenty of warning this time - and I *think* the winds are heading out to sea), or some sort of radioactive sludgepile inside your reactor. So nothing good, but nothing apocalyptic either. But still, :pray
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Nuclear reactor?
Steam explosion?
Winds heading out to sea?
Godzilla!?
Joking aside, we're all praying for the best :pray
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I just heard that there was 1 fatality here in the U.S as a result of the tsunami, he was trying to take pictures of it in Crescent City CA when he was washed out to sea. There were 4 others that were washed out, but they were later rescued.
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CNN just said it's gonna hit Hawaii in about an hour, then it's gonna hit the U.S West coast at 7:20-30 am PST, and it looks like it's gonna hit Hawaii hard.
already has. wave hit maui at 4ish central time. 6 ft wave, right into the harbour. i think san francisco got hit too?
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already has. wave hit maui at 4ish central time. 6 ft wave, right into the harbour. i think san francisco got hit too?
Yeah that post was from 6 am this morning, and yeah the entire West coast was hit, but it wasn't anything to bad, except in Crescent City CA were the waves were around 8ft, and as I posted just a few min ago 1 person was killed.
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I hate earthquakes. Every quake/aftershock we've had since the big ones yesterday are as big as anything I've felt before in Japan. Every time another quake starts, and the house and furniture begin to rattle and shake, you don't know if this is going to be another big one, or a lesser one than yesterday.
Stay safe rolex, remember the christchurch hit last month was an "aftershock" from the 7.1 from last year. They reckon anything over 7 and you're guaranteed within an order of magnitude afterhock within 6 months. And the christchurch "aftershock" exerted more than twice the force on christchurch that you got in sendai - even though it was only a 6.3 (I suggest your read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration ). Get yourself organized and prepared for a nasty aftershock, people here got caught with their pants down because they didn't.
Been doing a lot of reading up on quakes lately :(
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Stay safe rolex, remember the christchurch hit last month was an "aftershock" from the 7.1 from last year. They reckon anything over 7 and you're guaranteed within an order of magnitude afterhock within 6 months. And the christchurch "aftershock" exerted more than twice the force on christchurch that you got in sendai - even though it was only a 6.3 (I suggest your read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration ). Get yourself organized and prepared for a nasty aftershock, people here got caught with their pants down because they didn't.
Been doing a lot of reading up on quakes lately :(
Look at that "Significant earthquakes" chart on that Wikipedia page, 6 of the 9 earthquakes have happen from 2005 to now, seems like a lot of powerful seismic activity lately.
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Thanks for the update Rolex. Stay safe brother.
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The news here is that they released some pressure about 5 hours ago. I just finished watching a report that the temperature has stabilized in both.
Chernobyl had no containment building, so there's no similarity between these facilities.
The facilities are intake after one of the largest earthquakes in history and three successive large ones within 30 minutes. I'm impressed by that.
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Rolex stay safe and we are :pray fro you and your family.
LawnDart
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nevertheless, fear of nuclear reactors will rise, the supporters will drop like flies.
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I bet that engineers all around the world are looking at this and research on find a better nuclear reactors that will with-stand a 8,9 or +10 earthquake and tsunami.
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I bet that engineers all around the world are looking at this and research on find a better nuclear reactors that will with-stand a 8,9 or +10 earthquake and tsunami.
It's all about the cooling. I was surprised that the diesel generators failed. Those things are freakishly reliable.
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I bet that engineers all around the world are looking at this and research on find a better nuclear reactors that will with-stand a 8,9 or +10 earthquake and tsunami.
are you talking about a 100% safety? .......
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It's all about the cooling. I was surprised that the diesel generators failed. Those things are freakishly reliable.
What caused them to fail was the tsunami's, the generators were knocked out by the flood waters & not the quake itself, and with all the damage in Japan right now getting replacement generators will be difficult & take time, time they might not have. A report I was reading said that venting the pressure into the atmosphere would only buy them 12-24 hours, it also said that right now radiation levels outside the plant isn't bad, they said you could stand at the gates and it would take 70 days for you to get a years limit on radiation exposure, but they said inside is a different story, they said in the plant it's 1000 times above normal levels & the people inside are in danger of health risks from exposure.
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Can't think of anything to say that'd really help, Rolex.. Hang in there..
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I see the foreign press is reporting that part of the containment building blew up. That is not what is being reported here.
It was an explosion in the turbine area, not in the nuclear pressure vessel or containment building. Water used in the heat exchange to run the turbine may have blown out of piping from the heat in the reactor or/and damage in the pipe, but that water is isolated and not radioactive.
(BTW, things are a confusing and news is hard to verify since there is so much going on. I can understand that...)
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Stay safe rolex, remember the christchurch hit last month was an "aftershock" from the 7.1 from last year. They reckon anything over 7 and you're guaranteed within an order of magnitude afterhock within 6 months. And the christchurch "aftershock" exerted more than twice the force on christchurch that you got in sendai - even though it was only a 6.3 (I suggest your read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration ). Get yourself organized and prepared for a nasty aftershock, people here got caught with their pants down because they didn't.
Been doing a lot of reading up on quakes lately :(
South Eastern most corner of California continues to receive +5.0 aftershocks, 11 months after the 7.2 hit on Easter 2010. Those aftershocks will probably occur every few minutes for a few days, then hourly for a few weeks, then daily, then weekly up to a year later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeB-e3yBIho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeB-e3yBIho)
Check for new cracks, gas leaks and anything else out of the ordinary around your house and neighborhood. Prayers are being made for all those in Japan, who will be affected by this natural disaster, in one way or another. :pray
Stock up on water and dry foods, in case power goes out again, you'll still be able to brush your teeth, shower and drink when the water pumps no longer work.
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Video of it
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-38075108:eksplosion-p%C3%A5-atomkraftv%C3%A6rk.html?forside
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There have been rather bad estimates of the Fukushima nuclear plant status in Finnish press...
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i dont know what part blew up there, from the video it was a HUGHE Explosion :/ ...i hope its not the Reactor
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Video of it
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-38075108:eksplosion-p%C3%A5-atomkraftv%C3%A6rk.html?forside
Wow, that didn't look good.
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It looks like the reactor building blew. The wind was to the north. People were told to stay indoors, don't drink the water, etc. Radiation is 1,045 μSv - equal to about 1 year of radiation in a single dose.
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It looks like the reactor building blew. The wind was to the north. People were told to stay indoors, don't drink the water, etc. Radiation is 1,045 μSv - equal to about 1 year of radiation in a single dose.
And the amount of radiation released has always been reliably reported .. LOL
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And the amount of radiation released has always been reliably reported .. LOL
hiding information will nobody help, i'm sure the government will adress the nation if it gets realy dangerous...
but i doubt they have all the needed information right now...
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And the amount of radiation released has always been reliably reported .. LOL
Well this isn't Soviet union doing the 'reliable' reporting this time. But this has also implications. While soviets threw countless human lives in the grinder rescuing the plant through suicide this most likely won't be an option for Japan. Containment may be impossible.
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hiding information will nobody help, i'm sure the government will adress the nation if it gets realy dangerous...
but i doubt they have all the needed information right now...
Correct it will help no one. But many many times governments and or corps have lied about the dangers to the public. I never take their word for it.
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Edit - oops, this might be outdated by 24h. Forgot about Japanese time zone.
TEPCO press release page - http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031209-e.html
"four Fukushima Daini reactors shutdown" - Tokyo Electric Power Company
quoting the whole thing here as the JP website seems hard to reach:
Plant Status of Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 5AM March 12th )
Unit 1 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 3:48AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- At 6:08PM, we announced the increase in reactor containment vessel pressure,
assumed to be due to leakage of reactor coolant. However, we do not believe
there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel at this moment.
Unit 2 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 4:50AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
Unit 3 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently, injection
of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
Unit 4 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently, injection
of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
Indication from monitoring posts installed at the site boundary did not show
any difference from ordinary level.
No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We will
continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material being
discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal.
There is no missing person within the power station.
We are presently checking on the site situation of each plant while keeping
the situation of aftershock and Tsunami in mind.
A seriously injured worker is still trapped in the crane operating console
of the exhaust stack and his breathing and pulse cannot be confirmed.
A worker was lightly injured spraining his left ankle and cutting both knees
when he fell while walking at the site. The worker is conscious.
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-11-japan-quake-reactors_N.htm)
Cross your fingers folks.
Warhead - what say ya'll?
And the amount of radiation released has always been reliably reported .. LOL
Actually it is. And it constantly hovers around zero.
Little clearing up here is needed. All I have heard is a possible hydrogen explosion, have no real details on the events leading up to it.
There can be no "nuclear explosion," the fuel is not even close to that level of refinement.
The fuel, rests inside of a vessel, that vessel rests in a building called the containment building.
I haven't heard definitive news if the containment building failed or not.
Even if it does, a radiation release is not going to be the end of the world.
It seems every possible thing that could of went wrong, went wrong. The levels of redundancy built into plants is ridiculous. The plant's components sit on huge snubbers to dampen the effects of earthquakes, this goes for all American and Japanese plants. We're designed to handle these disasters as safely as possible.
Hopefully for us this was a problem that could not be prevented, and we can learn from it.
Not a lot of information in my channels yet however.
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Local news report that the reactor has blown and the accident is second to Chernobyl only. Only positive thing is that the reactor was much cooler and smaller this time which won't carry the radioactive cloud up to the jetstreams - and wind atm is blowing towards the sea. I guess we can expect new fish species. Japanese officials confirm a large radiation leak.
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Local news report that the reactor has blown and the accident is second to Chernobyl only. Only positive thing is that the reactor was much cooler and smaller this time which won't carry the radioactive cloud up to the jetstreams - and wind atm is blowing towards the sea. I guess we can expect new fish species.
Second to Chernobyl because that is the only other explosion (non nuclear) at a nuclear power plant.
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Second to Chernobyl because that is the only other explosion (non nuclear) at a nuclear power plant.
Sorry but the report was talking about contamination levels, not the type of incident.
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Sorry but the report was talking about contamination levels, not the type of incident.
Second only because this is only the 2nd time anything like this has happened, still holds true
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Second only because this is only the 2nd time anything like this has happened, still holds true
LOL so whats your angle now, this is no big deal? Officials are collecting iodine and 20km evacuation zone was decided saturday morning.
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You cannot try and compare Chernobyl to the event in Japan. They are two completely different types of reactors, two completely different types of plants, two completely different types of events.
Chernobyl was 100% caused by human error. Chernobyl's reactors also lack containment domes.
The explosion is Chernobyl however, like the one in Japan, was a non-nuclear explosion. These two plants and events have nothing in common.
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but the S*it went out, regardless how or what kind?
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LOL so whats your angle now, this is no big deal? Officials are collecting iodine and 20km evacuation zone was decided saturday morning.
Iodine will do nothing, your entire body will receive a dose of radiation with or without iodine. The only thing it accomplishes is making people feel a little safer.
People are being evacuated because that is proper procedure in the event of a radiation release, which was feared to happen, and it did.
I have no angle, just trying to clear up what is actually going on.
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but the S*it went out, regardless how or what kind?
Well, that makes a huge difference. It could be just a radiation release, which the winds will drag out to sea with no harm involved.
If contamination is released, it means there will be a very costly cleanup.
The explosion itself is the most dangerous part of what happened, has anyone seen confirmation yet if the containment building dome has failed?
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Its important to note that Fukushima Daini power station is nearly 40 years old, in the
United States the design lifespan is 50 years. I do not know what Japan has designed
theirs to but none the less they are rather old designs.
Although the reactor building blew there is not cause to panic quite yet, the building
itself is rather weakly constructed. Housed within the building is the reactor containment
structure, turbine housing and thousands of feet of piping. A large steam pipe explosion
could very easily cause what was in that video. It very likely the reactor core is still intact
although perhaps still damaged from overheating.
Strip
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I've not seen or heard anything saying the containment dome was breached, only the outer building was damaged.
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at least the wind helps, ...but warhead, if i would be there, close the the reactor living, on tv they just told, the radiation dose
you get is that from 1 year, how dangerous is this if the people stay at home?
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Iodine will do nothing, your entire body will receive a dose of radiation with or without iodine. The only thing it accomplishes is making people feel a little safer.
People are being evacuated because that is proper procedure in the event of a radiation release, which was feared to happen, and it did.
I have no angle, just trying to clear up what is actually going on.
LOL! Volatile compounds of radioactive iodine, including methyl iodide, are released into the environment in the cases of serious accidents at nuclear power plants. The thyroid gland soaks up iodine to perform its functions and if clean iodine is not supplied in large doses people risk collecting a radioactive bomb on their throat area.
That is why iodine is collected and administered.
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Iodine will do nothing, your entire body will receive a dose of radiation with or without iodine. The only thing it accomplishes is making people feel a little safer.
People are being evacuated because that is proper procedure in the event of a radiation release, which was feared to happen, and it did.
I have no angle, just trying to clear up what is actually going on.
Not true, iodine tablets prevent iodine-131 from building up in the thyroid gland. The gland
has a propensity to concentrate iodine from the bloodstream. When you ingest the tablets
you overload it with a non-radioactive isotope. This limits the concentration of the more
dangerous Iodine-131, Rip was quicker on the trigger.
Strip
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I've not seen or heard anything saying the containment dome was breached, only the outer building was damaged.
Latest reports are that the US is sending generators as the battery backup was only for 8 hours for the cooling system.Pretty big design flaw if correct. And in the latest reports the Japanese gov is saying that rods were exposed and radiation released. I stand by my opinion that none of the current reactors are safe yet.
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Latest reports are that the US is sending generators as the battery backup was only for 8 hours for the cooling system.Pretty big design flaw if correct. And in the latest reports the Japanese gov is saying that rods were exposed and radiation released. I stand by my opinion that none of the current reactors are safe yet.
One of the problems in this case was that the reactor was of older design and it was not designed to prevent meltout passively in case of an accident. It needs external power constantly to regulate temperatures within the core. Post Chernobyl all new designs were designed to have passive safety and many reactors were post fitted with safeguards aiming to achieve the same result.
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Not true, iodine tablets prevent iodine-131 from building up in the thyroid gland. The gland
has a propensity to concentrate iodine from the bloodstream. When you ingest the tablets
you overload it with a non-radioactive isotope. This limits the concentration of the more
dangerous Iodine-131, Rip was quicker on the trigger.
Strip
So yes, you may protect your thyroid, but it does absolutely nothing for the rest of your body. Iodine does practically nothing to prevent radiation damage.
at least the wind helps, ...but warhead, if i would be there, close the the reactor living, on tv they just told, the radiation dose
you get is that from 1 year, how dangerous is this if the people stay at home?
If you were to receive one year's dose acutely, there would be no harm to you.
The amount of radiation I receive in one refueling outage (the maximum you will get working at a plant), is about the same I would get from an X-Ray at the dentist's office.
The major concern in an incident like this, would be contamination over a large area.
As long as procedure is followed in a timely matter and any contaminated individuals are cleaned, there would be little harm, and no long term effects.
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Latest reports are that the US is sending generators as the battery backup was only for 8 hours for the cooling system.Pretty big design flaw if correct. And in the latest reports the Japanese gov is saying that rods were exposed and radiation released. I stand by my opinion that none of the current reactors are safe yet.
Not one single person on Earth has died of radiation exposure from a Nuclear Power Plant, outside of Chernobyl.
Also, it was not a design flaw. The battery backups are a backup to the Diesel Generators. Which are a backup to the power from the grid. You have 4 levels of power there. This happened to be the worst case scenario that just cannot be prevented.
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Not one single person on Earth has died of radiation exposure from a Nuclear Power Plant, outside of Chernobyl.
You must be one of the most ignorant persons I have faced lol. Long time build up of radioactive iodine, cesium etc. have caused thousands of radiation induced cancers around europe and yes, people are STILL dying to effects of Chernobyl. Or being born horribly malformed. The berries still have severely elevated radiation levels in our forrests. Wild game meat is not fit for human consumption on regular basis because of radiation build-up. Problem is especially bad on reindeers which eat moss - and moss soaks up cesium.
Fatty fishes in lakes have radiation levels so high that they still carry a health warning.
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You must be one of the most ignorant persons I have faced lol. Long time build up of radioactive iodine, cesium etc. have caused thousands of radiation induced cancers around europe and yes, people are STILL dying to effects of Chernobyl. Or being born horribly malformed.
No need for an argument here.
I would say the fact I've worked in nuclear plants since 2003, and have known hundreds if not thousands of people who have worked in nukes for 50+ years, and not one single death from radiation, would give me enough proof to back up my statement.
That and the thousands of studies that confirm it.
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K stick to topic. My airforce buddy is in Misawa next to this thing. Phones are down
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I also personally know a few workers who have been to Chernobyl to help with the containment of the failed reactor. I also know a few who have worked at the still running Chernobyl power plant. What is your connection to that facility?
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This is real life. I'm not interested in speculation by talking heads, sensational reporting to create drama or opinions from people who have no idea how efficiently the Japanese government and people have reacted to this. I saw military trucks filled with supplies (they are loaded with food water and medical supplies - ready to go to disaster areas) headed to the area on the highway in less than 30 minutes after the first earthquake.
The prime minister just had a news conference and it is being said this very minute that only the outer building was damaged and the containment pressure vessel and reactor vessel are intact.
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No need for an argument here.
I would say the fact I've worked in nuclear plants since 2003, and have known hundreds if not thousands of people who have worked in nukes for 50+ years, and not one single death from radiation, would give me enough proof to back up my statement.
That and the thousands of studies that confirm it.
Ok, you are a certified case :D So you say that having working proof that nobody died in conditions where there were no accidents means everything is ok? LOL!
Japan has had several nuclear plant accidents causing deaths prior to this:
January 1981: Four radioactive leaks in Tsuruga palnt. 278 exposed to harmful levels of radiation.
March 1997: Tokaimura uranium treatment plant has a fire that leads to an explosion. 37 exposed to harmful levels of radiation.
November 1999: Tokaimura has an incident through gross negligence killing two workers. Over 600 people are exposed and 320 000 people from the surrounding area are commanded to stay indoors for the next day.
August 2004: Non-radioactive leak kills four and injures seven at Mihama plant.
July 2007: Worlds largest nuclear plant, Kashiwazaki-Kariwa, suffers damage at 6,8 richter quake. Radioactive leak to the sea. Repairs last untill 2010.
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Phones are down because underwater telephone cables were severed in the quake. Misawa is fine.
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actual pic of the area around Fukushima:
(http://i.imgur.com/yQGkS.jpg)
edit: changed topic name.
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I also personally know a few workers who have been to Chernobyl to help with the containment of the failed reactor. I also know a few who have worked at the still running Chernobyl power plant. What is your connection to that facility?
Are you Boroda? He was spewing crap like that too.
I hear there are extremely cheap vacancies in Pripyat at the moment. I suggest investing there, great place for holidays.
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actual pic of the reactor:
(http://i.imgur.com/yQGkS.jpg)
The reactor is not visible in that photograph, nor is there any visual of the containment building and if it has failed.
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Seawater is now being pumped in to cool the reactor. They are not trying to save the reactor so they are not worried about corrosion. There will be plenty of time to clean up, but the safety of people in the area, and bringing the temperature down and stable is the priority.
This was a once in a millennium event. I am quite satisfied that the containment and reactor are intact after one of the strongest swarms of quakes in recorded history.
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The reactor is not visible in that photograph, nor is there any visual of the containment building and if it has failed.
If Japanese officials admit radiation has leaked and warhed is adament that it hasn't which should we believe? Hmm..
According to associated press the core is melting and radiation is leaking. The roof of the reactor building was collapsed in the explosion.
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Ok, you are a certified case :D So you say that having working proof that nobody died in conditions where there were no accidents means everything is ok? LOL!
Japan has had several nuclear plant accidents causing deaths prior to this:
January 1981: Four radioactive leaks in Tsuruga palnt. 278 exposed to harmful levels of radiation.
March 1997: Tokaimura uranium treatment plant has a fire that leads to an explosion. 37 exposed to harmful levels of radiation.
November 1999: Tokaimura has an incident through gross negligence killing two workers. Over 600 people are exposed and 320 000 people from the surrounding area are commanded to stay indoors for the next day.
August 2004: Non-radioactive leak kills four and injures seven at Mihama plant.
July 2007: Worlds largest nuclear plant, Kashiwazaki-Kariwa, suffers damage at 6,8 richter quake. Radioactive leak to the sea. Repairs last untill 2010.
Not one single fatal dose in your examples. Here's one for ya, 28 people died of acute radiation poisoning at Chernonbyl. And around 4,000 may be at risk for fatal cancers. My source? A forum made up of the UN, IAEA, World Bank, WHO, and various governments.
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Trying to stay on topic, Chernobyl was a non nuclear explosion, much like the explosion in Japan. However, lacking a containment building, the explosion caused nuclear material to be spread over a large distance. The plant in Japan is a GE design, most likely very similar to many of the plants in the U.S. They have containment domes that serve the purpose of containing any sort of problem with the reactor. Even in the event of a meltdown, the reactor can be destroyed, and the containment building will prevent a large release of radiation.
If a meltdown does, or has occurred, the fuel will melt, burning through the reactor vessel. It will burn itself down through the building, and possibly into the ground. There will be no nuclear explosion in a meltdown.
At Three Mile Island, the fuel acted much like lava, it cooled at the outer edges of the flow, and sealed itself off.
As long as a secondary explosion does not occur, and the containment building does not fail, there will not be a release of contamination from the reactor.
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warhead there are talks going on about if it burns into the ground, this could lead to contaminated ground-water?? that doesent sound good...
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warhead there are talks going on about if it burns into the ground, this could lead to contaminated ground-water?? that doesent sound good...
The contaminated ground water is the least of the problems if that happens. If the melted core gets contact with cold water there will be a massive explosion which was prevented in Chernobyl.
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warhead there are talks going on about if it burns into the ground, this could lead to contaminated ground-water?? that doesent sound good...
That was also a fear at Three Mile Island, however, the fuel basically sealed itself off before that happened.
I'm not familiar with the design at the Japanese plant, so I'm not sure what their situation would be.
If the fuel managed to burn through the reactor, and then through the containment building, and the foundation underneath it, ground water contamination would be a possibility however remote.
Because these things never happen, it is practically impossible to predict what will occur after a meltdown.
There will not be an explosion in the case of a meltdown however.
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The contaminated ground water is the least of the problems if that happens. If the melted core gets contact with cold water there will be a massive explosion which was prevented in Chernobyl.
Wrong.
The explosion at Chernobyl was caused when graphite components were exposed to air. That caused an explosion, which carried contamination along with it.
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Not one single fatal dose in your examples. Here's one for ya, 28 people died of acute radiation poisoning at Chernonbyl. And around 4,000 may be at risk for fatal cancers. My source? A forum made up of the UN, IAEA, World Bank, WHO, and various governments.
Those 28 were indeed acute which means they were literally radiated to death on site. The true danger comes from radioactive particles that end up in the food chain. The funny thing with those is that they slowly kill you through cancers but cannot be proved to be caused directly by the accident.
The Russians doctored the health statistics in a true Russian coverup (tm) fashion to hide the real consequences. That and a multi-billion dollar business keeps things understated.
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Wrong.
The explosion at Chernobyl was caused when graphite components were exposed to air. That caused an explosion, which carried contamination along with it.
Are you retarded? I said the thermal explosion was prevented in Chernobyl through the sacrifice of the lives of the cleanup team. Graphite did explode yes but if the melted core would have reached ground water the resulting thermal explosion was estimated to increase the immediate blast effect by 100 times.
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Those 28 were indeed acute which means they were literally radiated to death on site. The true danger comes from radioactive particles that end up in the food chain. The funny thing with those is that they slowly kill you through cancers but cannot be proved to be caused directly by the accident.
The Russians doctored the health statistics in a true Russian coverup (tm) fashion to hide the real consequences. That and a multi-billion dollar business keeps things understated.
Russia was only one of the very few involved in the forum in the investigation.
The cancers thought to be attributed to the accident, show no higher rates of nearby populations not exposed to the radiation.
Nuclear power plants in normal operation do not expose anyone living nearby to increased radiation doses. Even the workers are only slightly above background radiation levels.
The last independent study I read showed evidence that workers at nuclear power plants actually had lower cases of cancer, one study linked that chronic doses of radiation actually preventing cancers.
I understand that you hate nuclear power, I have been in many of situations in my life with people who think the way you do. Japan receives 1\3 of their energy from nuclear power. Other than coal, there is just no feasible replacement for that. Unlike coal power, nuclear power releases no greenhouse gases, releases no harmful substances into the environment. The mining of nuclear fuel is also a much smaller impact to the environment. A typical fuel rod in a reactor lasts for 6 years. Compare the deaths and injuries and accidents that have happened due to nuclear power, to Coal or Natural Gas power, and you will understand why nuclear power is the safest form of energy that can provide the supply for modern civilization's demand.
Unfortunately, this accident has proven that sometimes, Mother Nature just cannot be prevented from destruction.
If an asteroid struck a nuclear power plant, would you still blame the plant for causing damage?
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If an asteroid struck a nuclear power plant, would you still blame the plant for causing damage?
at least If an asteroid hits a gas or coal power, there would be no danger of radiation, so
the real question is, is this all worth the risk?
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Are you retarded? I said the thermal explosion was prevented in Chernobyl through the sacrifice of the lives of the cleanup team. Graphite did explode yes but if the melted core would have reached ground water the resulting thermal explosion was estimated to increase the immediate blast effect by 100 times.
There was no nuclear blast, at all. A non nuclear blast spread contamination. The reactor melted down and the "lava flow" is still within the reactor building to this day. I actually worked for a man who got to peek through a hole and view it himself.
The responders had no control over the fuel, they were simply doing their best to contain the contamination. Often times by pouring liquid lead directly onto piles of strewn about fuel. The majority of the dead were those first responders, who through their sacrifice allowed others to come in behind to help the cleanup efforts.
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Russia was only one of the very few involved in the forum in the investigation.
The cancers thought to be attributed to the accident, show no higher rates of nearby populations not exposed to the radiation.
Nuclear power plants in normal operation do not expose anyone living nearby to increased radiation doses. Even the workers are only slightly above background radiation levels.
The last independent study I read showed evidence that workers at nuclear power plants actually had lower cases of cancer, one study linked that chronic doses of radiation actually preventing cancers.
I understand that you hate nuclear power, I have been in many of situations in my life with people who think the way you do. Japan receives 1\3 of their energy from nuclear power. Other than coal, there is just no feasible replacement for that. Unlike coal power, nuclear power releases no greenhouse gases, releases no harmful substances into the environment. The mining of nuclear fuel is also a much smaller impact to the environment. A typical fuel rod in a reactor lasts for 6 years. Compare the deaths and injuries and accidents that have happened due to nuclear power, to Coal or Natural Gas power, and you will understand why nuclear power is the safest form of energy that can provide the supply for modern civilization's demand.
Unfortunately, this accident has proven that sometimes, Mother Nature just cannot be prevented from destruction.
If an asteroid struck a nuclear power plant, would you still blame the plant for causing damage?
I don't hate nuclear power I'm an advocate of it. But I do hate having f***ng fallout on me after some half monkeys f-up in an another country. I personally stood in the radioactive rain the next night when the Chernobyl was blown and the russkies lied about the accident despite international agreements.
I personally still have to live in an environment that is riddled with soviet cesium. And my kids. I personally lost a family member to cancer just recently - did the accident have anything to do with that I don't know - but I don't like the idea that my kids will have to get exposed for years to come.
I'm 100% sure that the effects of the Chernobyl accident have been effectively covered up on political reasons.
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at least If an asteroid hits a gas or coal power, there would be no danger of radiation, so
the real question is, is this all worth the risk?
Actually, the asteroid impact itself would be quite a large source of radiation, but that's missing my point.
Is it worth the risk? Yes, no civilians have ever been killed or injured from nuclear power. Workers don't die or get cancer from radiation.
The only viable alternative to nuclear power is Coal and Natural Gas. I cannot imagine how many people die a year in Coal Mines alone, let alone the effects of the harmful material Coal plants put into the air.
Wind and water and solar power are great, but they just cannot match the demand the grid needs.
Nuclear power is a safe and clean power. However, a 8.9 earthquake, asteroids, terrorists, and any other sort of natural or unnatural disaster cannot always be prevented. When a nuclear power plant happens to be in their path, bad things happen. But even then, it is still the safest most viable source of energy we have.
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You guys should start a new thread. Then someone can argue the risks of classic sources of power. EG compare deaths from coal to deaths from nuclear.
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There was no nuclear blast, at all. A non nuclear blast spread contamination. The reactor melted down and the "lava flow" is still within the reactor building to this day. I actually worked for a man who got to peek through a hole and view it himself.
The responders had no control over the fuel, they were simply doing their best to contain the contamination. Often times by pouring liquid lead directly onto piles of strewn about fuel. The majority of the dead were those first responders, who through their sacrifice allowed others to come in behind to help the cleanup efforts.
Again your reading comprehension seems to be very poor. At which point did I claim there was a nuclear blast?
IIRC the workers dug a tunnel under the core which was then filled with fast curing cement to prevent the danger of the core reaching ground waters. This operation along with the build up of the makeshift containment building exposed some 600 000 workers to varying levels of immediately non-fatal radiation.
Oh, and I wouldn't be bragging with 'getting to' have a peak on a melted core. It's like bragging your oppressive government forced you to play russian roulette with 5 slots filled and live to tell about it lol!
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I don't hate nuclear power I'm an advocate of it. But I do hate having f***ng fallout on me after some half monkeys f-up in an another country. I personally stood in the radioactive rain the next night when the Chernobyl was blown and the russkies lied about the accident despite international agreements.
I personally still have to live in an environment that is riddled with soviet cesium. And my kids. I personally lost a family member to cancer just recently - did the accident have anything to do with that I don't know - but I don't like the idea that my kids will have to get exposed for years to come.
I'm 100% sure that the effects of the Chernobyl accident have been effectively covered up on political reasons.
The Chernobyl accident was 100% human error. It was a dangerous design, operated by individuals who should not of been operating the reactor. Three Mile Island was a good plant operated by under qualified people.
After these accidents, at least in every country but Russia, nuclear power has been revolutionized from the ground up. Between government and industry regulation, every effort for safe operation is taken. Things have changed, you would not believe the amount of government and industry regulation nuke workers have to deal with. I could not only lose my job, I could spend time in Prison in if I break procedures at a plant.
This was a huge devastating earthquake. Thousands of people have died, there will be billions if not trillions of dollars of damage. The effect of this will last for years, probably a hundred of years on a personal level.
I just do not understand how nuclear power should be demonized because of it.
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warhed you sound to have a good knowledge about nuclear power (i like to read it btw.)
but in all respect for me the risk is not worth, thats why i dont support nuclear power.
A demonstartion startet earlier at a german nuclear power plant, maybe this event will
show the danger, because there is no 100% guarantee. Me & my family dont need that.
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You guys should start a new thread. Then someone can argue the risks of classic sources of power. EG compare deaths from coal to deaths from nuclear.
I'll take your advice and stop posting off topic. My apologies, I get a little passionate about this stuff
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I just do not understand how nuclear power should be demonized because of it.
Nuclear power should not be demonized because of it but it's downright criminal to try to downplay the danger of the leak when one happens. So far the wind is taking the fallout to the sea - imagine the disaster if some larger city nearby will get pasted if the core blows up completely.
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I'd rather hear about updates on topic than have this debate keep people like Rolex out of the thread. Can you guys start a separate thread?
I'll take your advice and stop posting off topic. My apologies, I get a little passionate about this stuff
No apologies needed, I'd like to add my piece but not if e.g. Rolex stops giving news because of it.
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warhed you sound to have a good knowledge about nuclear power (i like to read it btw.)
but in all respect for me the risk is not worth, thats why i dont support nuclear power.
A demonstartion startet earlier at a german nuclear power plant, maybe this event will
show the danger, because there is no 100% guarantee. Me & my family dont need that.
Nuclear power correctly done is not a bad thing. Did you know that the plants that burn coal every day to produce the electricity we use to type this, spread several tons of radioactive material to the atmosphere as we speak?
If coal burning stops and gets replaced with nuclear power, overall contamination (not only nuclear, mind you) will reduce even with this incident in Japan.
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Latest news says the containment building did not fail.
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MrRipley i will buy you a ticket to Fukushima.
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Latest news says the containment building did not fail.
Yep I read that just now also. The reactor building collapsed but the containment didn't get breached luckily.
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Well, at this point, until we get images of the damages to the plant(s), there is no way to tell whether we are hearing the truth or if the Gov. lies as much as the Russians did at Chernobyl and others victim of more accidents in the world that no one's never heard about. Nuclear fission plants will gradually be on the verge of extinction as soon as the nuclear fusion plants become online in the next 50 years. So be happy that in 100years, everyone(or every towns) will not have his own personal nuclear fission reactor at home...
But like Wareh said, the regulations are so strict that they are more strict than those from space programs. That comes at a very high price, education requirements and technology.
Talking about nuclear power nowadays is like trying to disprove that the Earth is flat to everyone 2000years ago(heck, even to some people today :rolleyes:). No one knows a thing about it and that's why people are so divided on the subject.
Its either speculations and rumors or true facts rights now in Japan.
EDIT: I don't know cr*p either about this subject so you can disregard my post if you would like.
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new thread for nuclear dangers debate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,308636.0.html)
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MrRipley i will buy you a ticket to Fukushima.
As I said I had my radioactive shower already, thanks. People die daily in car crashes too, are you against cars too now?
I have nothing against nuclear power but when someone says radiation is not dangerous I treat them the same way as a person who witnesses two cars crash 60mph and drive by saying 'naah probably nothing happened'.
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MrRipley why comapring car crashes? does they have ANYTHING to do with the event today?
*sigh*
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MrRipley why comapring car crashes? does they have ANYTHING to do with the event today?
*sigh*
Its not a comparison, its an analogy.
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Its not a comparison, its an analogy.
apple vs. oranges?
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apple vs. oranges?
Not at all. Nuclear plants AND cars both have benefits and dangers. Think about this:
According to WHO 1 200 000 people die every year to car accidents. Less than 100 die per year average to any accident related to nuclear power plants (including death from falling etc.)
Those 1.2 million had two things in common: They all drove cars and they all used electricity generated by nuclear power. Does that mean that cars are such a risk to environment that they should immediately be banned?
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MrRipley we should stay on topic here, but to answere your last question,
i buy a car and drive it, its me who take the risk or not, i'm free to choose.
But a nuclear power, the risk is there, if i like it or not, i'm not free here.
apple vs. orange.
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MrRipley we should stay on topic here, but to answere your last question,
i buy a car and drive it, its me who take the risk or not, i'm free to choose.
But a nuclear power, the risk is there, if i like it or not, i'm not free here.
apple vs. orange.
You're free to move away from it. And you're free to vote for or against politicians that brought it to your backyard.
Quit acting like such a victim.
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what are you talking about? what victim?
you just woke up, eh?
i exsactly do that, i choose politicians wo preffer different energy power plants,
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Kaboom!... One reactor just aspolded...
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113124353222667.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113124353222667.html)
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MrRipley we should stay on topic here, but to answere your last question,
i buy a car and drive it, its me who take the risk or not, i'm free to choose.
Oh really? Are the kids playing on the kindergarten free to choose if they want to breathe your exhaust or not? Are the pedestrians that are in risk of getting hit by you free to choose if they want you driving on the road or not? Are the animals and the plants free to choose if they want the ecological footprint of mining and producing materials to create the cars you drive? What about the fuel you burn, oil you use to lubricate? Is the nature free to choose if they are affected on those?
It's far from that simple my friend.
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Kaboom!... One reactor just aspolded...
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113124353222667.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113124353222667.html)
LOL did you read any post in this thread? Did you even read the ARTICLE you posted?
"We've confirmed that the reactor container was not damaged. The explosion didn't occur inside the reactor container. As such there was no large amount of radiation leakage outside, so we'd like everyone to respond calmly."
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It's all about the cooling. I was surprised that the diesel generators failed. Those things are freakishly reliable.
The on going problem with diesel generators is fuel storage. Diesel doesn't like sitting in a tank and not being used. :)
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LOL did you read any post in this thread? Did you even read the ARTICLE you posted?
Do you really believe nothing from the reactor was damaged in such an explosion? It looked like a 1000lb bomb exploded in that thing. It would be blind faith to believe what the officials say in the ONLY goal of appeasing the population in that regard. When someone has made a big mistake, its better to hide it or conceal parts of the truth. I'm might sound like a conspiracy theorist but there is no way to tell from us, press releases or prime minister speech that everything is under control. They told us that no explosion whatsoever was possible before this happened... "huh what explosion are we talking about?!" :huh
Remember that A LOT LOT LOT of money is in play (and not just for Japan) whether or not the reactor is damaged and what the public knows.
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Now there pumping sea water in to cool the reactor, this means its garbage and there not worried about saving it. Also in no sitiuation, is pouring sea water to cool in the plans period, at any nuke plant and its a last ditch effort to keep it from poping.
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Now there pumping sea water in to cool the reactor, this means its garbage and there not worried about saving it. Also in no sitiuation, is pouring sea water to cool in the plans period, at any nuke plant and its a last ditch effort to keep it from poping.
They are trying to do anything they can before a bigger problem occurs.
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CNN iReporter Brent Kooi catches the earth moving and cracking beneath his feet as the quake strikes Japan.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/ireport.kooi.cracked.japan.quake.cnn?hpt=C2
:eek:
Stay safe, Rolex-san.
Thank you for the updates. :salute
Regards,
Sun
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CNN iReporter Brent Kooi catches the earth moving and cracking beneath his feet as the quake strikes Japan.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/ireport.kooi.cracked.japan.quake.cnn?hpt=C2
:eek:
Stay safe, Rolex-san.
Thank you for the updates. :salute
Regards,
Sun
That is some absolutely incredible video right there. Anyone able to explain what is happening?
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plates are moving. more specifically, the pacific plate is slowly being pushed under the other one that japan is on top of. so, when enough tension builds up from them pressing together, it shifts very suddenly, releases the tension and theres the earthquake.
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plates are moving. more specifically, the pacific plate is slowly being pushed under the other one that japan is on top of. so, when enough tension builds up from them pressing together, it shifts very suddenly, releases the tension and theres the earthquake.
I know how earthquakes happen, I was referring to what was happening in the video linked above my post
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the water is an effect called liquefaction. Look it up in wiki. Either that or a water pipe under there popped open.
ground cracks.. well its the ground being shifted vertically that causes it.
I find it amazing this guy just stands there narrating while the crack makes a sawline around the concrete block he's in. Didn't he ever watch Wiley Coyote go through this very same thing? :D
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The guy did say he was standing on reclaimed ground.
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Look at that "Significant earthquakes" chart on that Wikipedia page, 6 of the 9 earthquakes have happen from 2005 to now, seems like a lot of powerful seismic activity lately.
PGA is a localized effect measurement. So there have been more powerful quakes just not so significant in PGA localized to large populations. The Feb quake was <1mile deep and virtually right under the city.
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Not at all. Nuclear plants AND cars both have benefits and dangers. Think about this:
According to WHO 1 200 000 people die every year to car accidents. Less than 100 die per year average to any accident related to nuclear power plants (including death from falling etc.)
Those 1.2 million had two things in common: They all drove cars and they all used electricity generated by nuclear power. Does that mean that cars are such a risk to environment that they should immediately be banned?
Ahh hyperbole at it's finest. You know there are other methods to generate electricity ;)
Just to fill in the gaps in case you're not following. Not all 1.2 million people killed in car accidents used nuclear generated electricity. In fact quote a significant proportion didn't.
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Yes, the geometry of quakes are different and magnitude isn't the sole indicator of damage. One mile is deep is very shallow. Over 6,000 people died in the Kobe earthquake in Kobe in 1995 and there was no tsunami because it's more inland. Vertical motion is the most dangerous, not horizontal swaying.
It was the tsunamis that caused the deaths and destruction of all of northeast Japan shoreline, not the earthquake. But, the quake packed enough power to move Japan. The entire country moved 8 feet. Think about picking up a country and moving it 8 feet.
I'm about 100 miles south of the most southern area where the tsunami damage starts, but 50 million people in east Japan will be affected for the rest of our lives. Here's how: Those nuclear power plants up north will be offline and there is not enough generation capacity. Most of the trains are not running yet, factories and offices are closed this weekend and so are many businesses throughout eastern Japan.
And yet, there is not enough generating capacity now to provide power to everyone now, when everything is closed. What happens on Monday? Businesses and factories will want to open, people will want to run heaters and have lights (it was snowing in many of the places where the tsunamis hit - it's cold), people living in high rises and working in high rise offices will want to have elevators to take them up 30 floors, instead of climbing stairs.
Starting Monday, we are going to have rolling blackouts. They could last for the rest of my life. Building new generating capacity takes a long time. Our already high energy costs are going to skyrocket, but still not have enough power.
I like electricity.
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Na Rolex don't think so negative
its Time for the Parlament to think about native energy resources like windpower,Solar etc.
This things happen here in germany so fast ,they made alot of fail but I think that the Nippon's will make a better Gemba and will be the Number 1 in Solar and wind energy
2005 9% from Solar and Windpower
2010 44% of my Energy comes from Solar and Windpower ,prizes where going up but I learned to save Energy in the beginn its was not easy but now
when we go sleep only the DSL -Telephone modem 5 watt and the Fridge A++ 78 watt use power Nothing is in Standby
My PC 550 watts is retired I use Note book needs 80 watts
If you don't have a sense for Black Humor don't read the text Below
What Nuclear Catastrophic in Japan?....this is old people know what that is they had 2 of them many yeahrs before without Tsunami but made in USA
I Zoomed the Exploiding of the Nuclear Plant and found this
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FhYeCXGhJfI/0.jpg)
Gozzila!
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Na Rolex don't think so negative
its Time for the Parlament to think about native energy resources like windpower,Solar etc.
This things happen here in germany so fast ,they made alot of fail but I think that the Nippon's will make a better Gemba and will be the Number 1 in Solar and wind energy
2005 9% from Solar and Windpower
2010 44% of my Energy comes from Solar and Windpower ,prizes where going up but I learned to save Energy in the beginn its was not easy but now
when we go sleep only the DSL -Telephone modem 5 watt and the Fridge A++ 78 watt use power Nothing is in Standby
My PC 550 watts is retired I use Note book needs 80 watts
If you don't have a sense for Black Humor don't read the text Below
What Nuclear Catastrophic in Japan?....this is old people know what that is they had 2 of them many yeahrs before without Tsunami but made in USA
I Zoomed the Exploiding of the Nuclear Plant and found this
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FhYeCXGhJfI/0.jpg)
Gozzila!
Wind and Solar will not be able to replace the production lost from the nuclear reactors. If the grid cannot match demand with supply, you get blackouts. Building a wind far or two will not remedy that at all. Not until you build enough wind and solar to replace the lost production from the nukes. That's just not feasible to do to prevent any energy crisis that is going to arise in Japan.
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Wind and solar ..that's moronic
nuke power is the only non terrestrial power source on earth - can't be beat by anything in production now. Wind and solar don't compare by even a small percentage of power output
You might as well capture the methane from Godzilla s poo
Good luck over there Rolex..it looks like a disaster big time
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Not at all. Nuclear plants AND cars both have benefits and dangers. Think about this:
According to WHO 1 200 000 people die every year to car accidents. Less than 100 die per year average to any accident related to nuclear power plants (including death from falling etc.)
Those 1.2 million had two things in common: They all drove cars and they all used electricity generated by nuclear power. Does that mean that cars are such a risk to environment that they should immediately be banned?
You die in a car crash. The other people around the crash do not get cancer 40 yrs later from the crash.
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The Chernobyl accident was 100% human error. It was a dangerous design, operated by individuals who should not of been operating the reactor. Three Mile Island was a good plant operated by under qualified people.
After these accidents, at least in every country but Russia, nuclear power has been revolutionized from the ground up. Between government and industry regulation, every effort for safe operation is taken. Things have changed, you would not believe the amount of government and industry regulation nuke workers have to deal with. I could not only lose my job, I could spend time in Prison in if I break procedures at a plant.
This was a huge devastating earthquake. Thousands of people have died, there will be billions if not trillions of dollars of damage. The effect of this will last for years, probably a hundred of years on a personal level.
I just do not understand how nuclear power should be demonized because of it.
First off you know you are to young for me:)
NO NUKES... :)
It is being demonized because we cant deal with the waste safely and we cant deal with catastrophic events like this one. When the day comes that engineers and those that support nuclear plants are willing to live next to them and their waste, when that day arrives I might support nuclear energy.. NOT!! I dont want them harmed either....
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Ahh hyperbole at it's finest. You know there are other methods to generate electricity ;)
Just to fill in the gaps in case you're not following. Not all 1.2 million people killed in car accidents used nuclear generated electricity. In fact quote a significant proportion didn't.
Nearly every country either has nuclear reactors OR buys electricity from an another country that produces it cheaply with nuclear reactors and sells it to countries that are too candy-assed to build their own.
If a reactor is connected to your power grid at any point, you're using a fraction of nuclear power from that moment on.
The cold hard fact remains that car travel kills nearly 1.2 million people more every year than nuclear energy related accidents has ever killed combined.
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You die in a car crash. The other people around the crash do not get cancer 40 yrs later from the crash.
No? Harmful particles get released from the crash that spread to environment. If the car burns, paint etc. chemical compounds in the car produce a large amount of dioxine and other superpoisons which are both toxic and cause cancer. All the hundreds of thousands of kilometers driven prior to the crash have caused MASSIVE amounts of dust deposits in the air containing heavy metals, tar, fine rock mist and other environmental pollutants which end up in the lungs of people - causing cancer or asthma. All the kilometers produce also exhausts which all contain cancer inducing agents. Several tons per year per car.
Car travel is causing statistically speaking 99.99% more cancers annually compared to nuclear power.
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You die in a car crash. The other people around the crash do not get cancer 40 yrs later from the crash.
A modern nuclear power plant is unlikely to cause cancer to anyone outside the perimeter. Fukushima was not a modern plant and was in fact at the end of it's life, one reactor scheduled to be shut down this month. Which is also the reason the power plant wasn't further modernized with technology that could have averted the current leaks.
It would be most beneficial to lobby the shutdown of the old plants and replace with modern plants.
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Isn't failing to have foresight that a tsunami may come ashore and knock out your ground level backup generators 100% human error?
I mean c'mon, the plants are built near the sea smack dab in a high earthquake zone.
Why didn't the engineers elevate/isolate those generators to avoid being overcome by seawater coming ashore?? :headscratch:
Anyway, reports are now saying there may be another hydrogen explosion at reactor 3 like what occurred at reactor 1 yesterday.
"......Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said an explosion could take place in the building housing the No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant in northeastern Japan.
"There is a possibility that the third reactor may have hydrogen gas that is accumulating in the reactor (that) may potentially cause an explosion," he said.
An explosion caused by hydrogen buildup Saturday blew the roof off a concrete building housing the plant's No. 1 reactor, but the reactor and its containment system were not damaged in the explosion.
Edano said the No. 3 reactor would also likely withstand a similar blast, noting that workers had already released gas from the building to try to prevent an explosion......"
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Here is a sobering interview with physicist Dr. Michio Kaku on the BBC yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfJQzxK4nU
Let's all pray they can get this situation under control. :pray
Regards,
Sun
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I've got an idea. Why don't we reduce our power consumption?
The kids bedroom lightbulbs burned out a couple weeks ago, I'm not replacing them. Summer is coming and they have plenty of windows to let that glorious light in.
I'm hoping to see a dramatic reduction in the power bill due to the fact that they no longer hide in their rooms with lights, t.v., radio, dvd, dish, playstation, etc. turned on.
They've learned to come out of the caves and enjoy some good book reading or t.v. watching with old mom and dad.
It's a win-win. I recommend pulling the lights from your kids rooms.
GO NUKES!! or NUKE THE WHALES!!
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Although the thought of it blowing up and the possibility of it, I am not fully concerned about it and feel they will get it under control. I just hope they can find survivors from all the devastion. And more grimly, body recovery.
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Im more worried about how Rolex is doing instead of the pissing contest this thread has turned into
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Im more worried about how Rolex is doing instead of the pissing contest this thread has turned into
Absolutely the truth.
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Here is a sobering interview with physicist Dr. Michio Kaku on the BBC yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfJQzxK4nU
Let's all pray they can get this situation under control. :pray
Regards,
Sun
Too bad that doctor is known for sensationalizing and over stating the facts, he is employed by the Discovery and History channel for Christ sake.
Strip
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Too bad that doctor is known for sensationalizing and over stating the facts, he is employed by the Discovery and History channel for Christ sake.
Back to Topic Strip, so "Nuclear emergency declared at Japanese reactor " is nonsense and just sensationalizing
and the pictures on TV is just what?
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Back to Topic Strip, so "Nuclear emergency declared at Japanese reactor " is nonsense and just sensationalizing
and the pictures on TV is just what?
Sensationalizing at the worst. Do you see huge headlines on the bus accident in US that happened at the same time? Why not? It had 13 times the casualties compared to the reactor fault so far. Do you see huge headlines on the several environmental disasters that happen as we speak all around the world? Whole rivers poisoned to toxic waste in China? The nuclear hazard cannot even hold a candle to those events. But theyre caused by 'regular' poisons, you see.
Fear of unknown makes good media headlines and sells news.
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They are talking about 8 reactors now, two 75mi from Tokyo.
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Rolex can we get another update... ?
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Rolex is there anything we can do to help you?
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Rolex is there anything we can do to help you?
Agreed, What do you need sir...glad to send it your way, whatever it may be
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How on earth are they going to recover all the bodies? Burial for these guys is going to be one tough *****.
-Penguin
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It's Monday morning here.
Just had another big quake about 10 minutes ago very near my place. Sigh
Cell phone service is returning... slowly.
Undersea telephone cables were cut during quake, so many international telephone providers may have no service.
Central Tokyo will keep power all the time. The rest of us in the suburban areas are going to have blackouts starting today. I will lose power 6-10 am and 5 to 8:30 pm every day. Those blackouts will affect everything, including traffic signals, water service, everything. Imagine the impact on businesses... 45 million people are affected by this rationing.
All the gas stations have run out of gasoline here.
Everyone has followed the traditional custom of hoarding 1 year worth of toilet paper and tissue. Supermarkets as running out of food.
No trains or highway traffic beyond 30 minutes north of me. The train and highway bridges were damaged.
Very few trains are running this morning in Tokyo. The new schedules will only have some morning and afternoon trains - stopping mid-day.
They say the electricity rationing is only through April, but I'm not sure that will be true. Could be a stopgap until they work out some other rationing system since those nuclear plants are not coming back on line and I don't know where they will get the generating capacity so quickly. I feel it's like the hostess telling you the wait for a table is only 15 minutes, but the truth is that it will be an hour.
Things are confusing this morning as people try to go to work. The transportation and blackout timing will take some time to iron out. People are very patient and there is no panic. Japanese are quite calm and don't overreact in situations like this.
On the other hand, the foreign reporting I've read of the nuclear plant situation is overboard and sensationalism. It's a disservice to society to have so much fear mongering for the sake of ratings. There is no possibility of a "Chernobyl" incident - zero chance. Also, no "China Syndrome" as long as the containment vessels are undamaged, which is the case so far. Melting fuel can reach temperatures high enough to melt itself, but it cannot get high enough to penetrate the steel used in containment vessel construction.
If the containment vessels hold through a 9.0 quake, all of the aftershocks and tsunamis, I am impressed. The people exposed to radiation is the same amount as a chest X-ray.
I feel so sorry for the people up north. It's going to be cold with rain and snow tomorrow. It's truly hell for them. There is still a possibility of another large quake. Apparently it's normal to have a second quake after about a week that is 1 magnitude less, which would be an 8.0. That would trigger another tsunami. Let's hope that we defy the odds on that scenario.
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:pray
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How on earth are they going to recover all the bodies? Burial for these guys is going to be one tough *****.
-Penguin
Japan doesn't have burials, they have cremations.
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Oh man, so they either have to
A.) Dry out wet cadavears
B.) Deal with the smell of burning, rotting, salty human flesh
Let's not talk about this anymore, I don't feel well.
-Penguin
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The other reactor building just blew this minute. There waws another tsunami from the quake I reported a few minutes ago. More later
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Another tsunami? :(
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another 15 foot tsunami is headed inland this minute, will hit land momentarily
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:( prayers being sent
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another 15 foot tsunami is headed inland this minute, will hit land momentarily
Stay safe buddy :pray
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Trying to keep track, did you say there was another quake?
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Trying to keep track, did you say there was another quake?
It was a strong aftershock, but still big enough to send a 15 foot tsunami
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It was a strong aftershock, but still big enough to send a 15 foot tsunami
This is getting really bad, Do you think there will be another quake? and whats going on with the nuclear reactors?
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More realistic question, Do you think a majority of Japan will be washed away?
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More realistic question, Do you think a majority of Japan will be washed away?
No.
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Thats good, I heard that maps are having to be redrawn cause parts of Japan are now underwater and its going to stay that way :cry
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The water at the shore dropped 15' immediately after the quake, a precursor to another tsunami.
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The water at the shore dropped 15' immediately after the quake, a precursor to another tsunami.
My heart aches with worry, Rolex. Prayin' for ya'. :(
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Hydrogen explosion at Fukishima...
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the pictures on TV is just what?
A reactor that blew the outside IE the least substantial containment layer. Fukushima reactors aren't going to breach. Comparisons to Chernobyl where you basically had a nuclear furnace in open air along with actual core debris blown out from ground zero and radiation diffused into the air as eg dust, are in fact sensationalism. A particularly bad kind of sensationalism: grossly inaccurate sensationalism. In fact Chernobyl was the other way round from Fukushima: Fukushima blew the outside layer, whereas at Chernobyl it's the inner layer that immediately went. Where Chernobyl had a substantial cloud that IIRC swept Europe, in Fukushima some tiny fraction of a tenth of a percent is what escaped from core containment.
An attempt at layman explanation of BWR nukes like Fukushima's.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
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There saying that the reactor itself is still intact, so that's good news, and there saying the radiation levels are still only at a level that you'd receive getting a CT scan, and that's right outside the plant.
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Did the tsunami actually hit?
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No, the warning has been cancelled. The concern at the moment is the #3 reactor that just had an Hydrogen explosion at the Fukushima nuclear power plant complex.
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Looks like no tsunami now from latest quake. Whew.
Watching news conference on Fukushima explosions... two explosions
3 people hurt, 7 others status unknown
radiation from venting and explosion is tiny: 20μSv
Reactor pressure relieved and containment vessel undamaged.
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Dang Rolex, where do you get your information from? I'm listening live to my local TV news, Al Jazzera, CNN and BBC live at the same time and they are so clueless about what is happening lol.
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The reactor is 1.5 hour drive north of me...
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I was just looking through Google's people finder for the missing in Japan & it's ridiculous the number of people posting jokes and falsely reporting that they found so & so dead, some people have no soul.
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A reactor that blew the outside IE the least substantial containment layer. Fukushima reactors aren't going to breach. Comparisons to Chernobyl where you basically had a nuclear furnace in open air along with actual core debris blown out from ground zero and radiation diffused into the air as eg dust, are in fact sensationalism. A particularly bad kind of sensationalism: grossly inaccurate sensationalism. In fact Chernobyl was the other way round from Fukushima: Fukushima blew the outside layer, whereas at Chernobyl it's the inner layer that immediately went. Where Chernobyl had a substantial cloud that IIRC swept Europe, in Fukushima some tiny fraction of a tenth of a percent is what escaped from core containment.
An attempt at layman explanation of BWR nukes like Fukushima's.
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
I have a lot of time in BWRs, here's a real simple summary: We use nuclear fuel to boil water, that steam turns a turbine to generate electricity. All the other components are for efficiency and safety.
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Well, the last explosion at number 3 reactor damaged the cooling system at the adjoining number 2 reactor, so we're into the 3rd emergency at the Fukushima plant.
I'm about to lose my electric power, so I'll see you later.
Here's a map of recent quakes: http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html (http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html)
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Well, the last explosion at number 3 reactor damaged the cooling system at the adjoining number 2 reactor, so we're into the 3rd emergency at the Fukushima plant.
I'm about to lose my electric power, so I'll see you later.
Here's a map of recent quakes: http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html (http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html)
Stay safe Rolex :salute
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Well, the last explosion at number 3 reactor damaged the cooling system at the adjoining number 2 reactor, so we're into the 3rd emergency at the Fukushima plant.
I'm about to lose my electric power, so I'll see you later.
Here's a map of recent quakes: http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html (http://www.oe-files.de/gmaps/eqmashup.html)
Man thats a lot of after shocks, you can see quite a few in the 6 & 7 range, and unfortunately I'm sure there will still be more to come.
As for your power I'm sure you guys will be experiencing rolling blackouts for some time to come as Japan depended for a lot of it's power from nuclear reactors & who knows how long it will be before they are able to get those back online, if ever.
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Also here's a little fact about the quake I saw on TV, it moved the island of Japan 8ft & the quake slightly sped up the rotation of the Earth causing the day to be shortened by 1.8 microseconds.
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Also here's a little fact about the quake I saw on TV, it moved the island of Japan 8ft & the quake slightly sped up the rotation of the Earth causing the day to be shortened by 1.8 microseconds.
Holy hell.
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My power is on now, obviously...
The 3rd reactor building (Reactor #2) that was stabilized a few days ago is likely to explode as they have to release pressure. The explosion of the adjoining building damaged the pumps on the fire trucks being used to pump sea water into the reactor. They're trying to get other firetrucks but they may not get there in time.
What an astounding cascade of bad luck. It's like a movie. If they get through this last episode, the reactor emergencies will be contained.
Let it be.
(update) The entire core is exposed. It is now in meltdown.
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My power is on now, obviously...
The 3rd reactor building (Reactor #2) that was stabilized a few days ago is likely to explode as they have to release pressure. The explosion of the adjoining building damaged the pumps on the fire trucks being used to pump sea water into the reactor. They're trying to get other firetrucks but they may not get there in time.
What an astounding cascade of bad luck. It's like a movie. If they get through this last episode, the reactor emergencies will be contained.
Let it be.
(update) The entire core is exposed. It is now in meltdown.
Oh my :O
Good luck and stay safe.
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Rolex I hope you can keep us in touch every now and then. It is just unreal.
Best of luck..
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Holy hell.
well, according to a couple of different sources, japan has actually moved over 5. something meters-->scientists are going :banana which is completely paradoxical--> people dying/freezing/_____!! hello?!
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They've been able to get the water level back up. Not all the way, but it helps.
The containment vessel is not damaged. Remember that there is not enough heat generated to penetrate the containment walls. They'll vent some more to relieve pressure, and they're going to open more holes in building to try to reduce the inevitable blast as the hydrogen meet the outside air.
I'm not worried. The tsunami was a catastrophe, this is a serious problem, but it'll be handled. There's not a serious radiological problem from all of this so far. It's minute. I'm still amazed at how well the physical structures have held up after all that has been thrown at them.
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im amazed as well. i mean, sure, the japanese designed their buildings intelligently and able to withtstand a serious earthquake, but now they've undergone a massive earthquake, and 50+ aftershocks--> with a tsunami to boot. its one thing to survive, its a completely differet thing to endure. and yeah, im not too worried--> we humans always find a way eventually. not always a good way, but we solve the problem.
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Here is a photo of the (toll) highway a little north of where I live. The 9.0 quake about 180 miles away did this.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/rolex/joban.jpg)
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They've been able to get the water level back up. Not all the way, but it helps.
The containment vessel is not damaged. Remember that there is not enough heat generated to penetrate the containment walls. They'll vent some more to relieve pressure, and they're going to open more holes in building to try to reduce the inevitable blast as the hydrogen meet the outside air.
I'm not worried. The tsunami was a catastrophe, this is a serious problem, but it'll be handled. There's not a serious radiological problem from all of this so far. It's minute. I'm still amazed at how well the physical structures have held up after all that has been thrown at them.
The reports in The Washington Post are saying that the secondary containment wall was breached during the hydrogen explosion. The integrity of the primary containment vessel is still good, though
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/japan-nuclear-reactors-and-seismic-activity/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/japan-nuclear-reactors-and-seismic-activity/)
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Yeah it's unbelievable all the things that have been thrown at the Japanese people in the last few days, if it's not one disaster it another.
They built those nuclear reactors over 40 years ago and look how well they've held up under the circumstance, they built the reactor itself extremely well, I mean the containment buildings around the reactors have exploded & the reactor itself has still held up, I think it goes to show just how safe nuclear power actually is when the thing is built right, even with all that's happen at the reactors the radiation release has been minimal, you'd get no more exposure standing at the gates of the nuclear plant then you'd get from a CT scan, the Japanese knew what they were doing when they built these reactors, it's only when countries cut corners building them that things go wrong like Chernobyl.
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That's a poorly-worded article and could easily be misunderstood.
The building surrounding the reactor and its containment vessel should not be called a "secondary containment building." It's just a simple structure covering everything.
The containment vessel that the reactor is enclosed within is undamaged.
The containment vessels has far exceeded their design limits by a factor of 100 and withstood every possible worse-case scenario intact. It's ridiculous to say that it's not as robust as TMI.
The radiation chart doesn't show how little the workers have been exposed to, only the amount they could have been exposed to if they were unprotected. They have been protected since day one. The comparisons aren't valid.
The most glaring error is the units of radiation. The units shown are milli sievert (Sv) = mSv
The units released in Fukushima are μSv which is 10^-3 smaller (1,000 times) less than they are showing!
Astounding mistake. If they say that is equal to a CT scan, it would be 1/1000th of a CT scan.
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I was wondering on both points.
I figured that it was just the actual building that it was in.
I also wondered about the accuracy of the "readings". Indeed there is a distinct difference between milli and micro :noid
Media hype or honest mistake?
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VonMessa, I'd suggest that it a few numbers and facts were mixed up in the process
of the media getting all this jumble of news from overseas. Honest mistake? Possibly.
Media hype? Possibly as well.
Things are a mess right now, from the media to ground zero. I would take the news
with an extra grain of salt at this point.
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I prefer to think of it, or hope for it, to be a mistake. It's easier for me to digest that with less heartburn...
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VonMessa, I'd suggest that it a few numbers and facts were mixed up in the process
of the media getting all this jumble of news from overseas. Honest mistake? Possibly.
Media hype? Possibly as well.
Things are a mess right now, from the media to ground zero. I would take the news
with an extra grain of salt at this point.
I prefer to think of it, or hope for it, to be a mistake. It's easier for me to digest that with less heartburn...
As a rule, I don't ever take any media source as completely accurate.
Statistics can be manipulated to show anything.
60% of people know this to be true :D
Keep us updated, Rolex. We're all hoping this works out for the best. :aok
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As a rule, I don't ever take any media source as completely accurate.
Statistics can be manipulated to show anything.
60% of people know this to be true :D
Keep us updated, Rolex. We're all hoping this works out for the best. :aok
:aok
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Any news on the new explosion at #2?
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Any news on the new explosion at #2?
Just basic info so far.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20110313/AS.Japan.Earthquake.Nuclear.Crisis/ (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20110313/AS.Japan.Earthquake.Nuclear.Crisis/)
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Any news on the new explosion at #2?
not good news :(
on CNN a few minutes ago, i dont know what to say... and the wind is moving Tokyo :(
i really hope for an happy end.
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Very serious now.
The containment vessel may have been breached.
The workers have evacuated the plant.
Things are happening very fast - this is serious
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Just saw an interview where the guy was saying the containment vessel may have failed. Can anyone verify?
EDIT: Rolex posted while I was typing.
Good luck dude, we're all pulling for ya.
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No one can verify as of this minute, but appears that way. Real time instantaneous information is difficult.
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:pray :salute
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I'm so sorry to hear about this, I hope it doesn't reach you and your family Rolex, it looks like everyone's worst fears about this situation are starting to happen.
I'll be praying for your family & everyone else over there. :pray
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CNN is reporting right now that the company that controls the reactors have lied in the past about dangers from the reactor.
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The area has been evacuated for days.
Things are still not 100% clear and everything now is just speculation.
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Seems those poor people just can't get a break from all these disasters. Hopefully things will be better for not only their sake, but people in other countries as well.
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The earthquake was reclassed as a 9.0 today.
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Japan is now 13 feet closer to the U.S., and we lost 1.3 microseconds because the axis of the Earth shifted.
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Japan is now 13 feet closer to the U.S., and we lost 1.3 microseconds because the axis of the Earth shifted.
Where did you hear 13ft, I've heard it was 8ft?
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Where did you hear 13ft, I've heard it was 8ft?
Right here probably http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110314/ts_yblog_thelookout/japans-earthquake-shifted-balance-of-the-planet (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110314/ts_yblog_thelookout/japans-earthquake-shifted-balance-of-the-planet)
From the article:
The quake caused a rift 15 miles below the sea floor that stretched 186 miles long and 93 miles wide, according to the AP. The areas closest to the epicenter of the quake jumped a full 13 feet closer to the United States, geophysicist Ross Stein at the United States Geological Survey told The New York Times.
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Here is a news conference I ran across in the nether web...Japanese/English translation follows after first long statement...be patient ..there is an English translator.
Archived from earlier today:
Speaker: Former Group Leader, Toshiba, In charge of design and testing of the containment vessel at the Fukushima site.
FCC: LIVE CONFERENCE STREAM Japanese/English on current state of reactors: Fukushima #2 fuel rods are exposed - Emergency declared by TEPCO
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13320454
Regards,
Sun
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Right here probably http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110314/ts_yblog_thelookout/japans-earthquake-shifted-balance-of-the-planet (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110314/ts_yblog_thelookout/japans-earthquake-shifted-balance-of-the-planet)
Thanks.
CNN just said that they are getting word that there may be a fire now in the reactor #4 containment building.
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Watching NHK presser it's not clear from voice-over translation that the fire is or isn't radioactive.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
http://www.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/r0/low.asx - lowest quality / least choppy stream
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I can receive NHK World english television broadcast here on the big dish but the dedicated dish for that satellite is not ready for installation until this weekend :(
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Fire is not radioactive.
(added)They just corrected to say it is radioactive.
Damn.
up to 400 mSv levels in the facility.
(Added again)
This not clear. It seems the smoke may just be carrying some of the radiation from the vicinity of the reactors and not radioactive in origin.
My translation of what they said is that. But, one of the Tokyo Power guys said that the fire may have been in the stored fuel area. The stored rods may be the source of the radiation.
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Sad this happened, so devastating, praying dearly for a quick recovery. Just think how much we take for granted.
just wondering If i shud be worried about radiaton since Alaska aint too far across the ocean.
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i'm listening to the live broadcast, ill put off gaming at this moment just not in the mood, Rolex you and your family stay safe :pray i can only imagine how your feeling and puts alot of what-if's into a persons head
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Well now there's enough radiation leaking that they've asked anyone within 30k to stay indoors. This just keeps getting worse.
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Just read this off the NHK site ..
The government has newly ordered residents living within a 20 to 30 kilometer radius of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant to stay indoors.
The previously-issued evacuation order for an area within 20 kilometers of the plant remains unchanged.
People within a 20k radius have been already evacuated, The people 20k to 30k are asked to stay inside, hopefully none of this changes these people have been through enough
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/ (http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/) for those who wish to keep updated its a live feed
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The fire is out. Spent fuel rods in a storage pool were exposed, forming hydrogen gas and an explosion. That explosion caused the fire. The storage pool water temperature is now reduced, but still double what is normal. There are reports that the fire added to the radiation spike discussed below.
The radiation level near reactor 2 was 400 mSv/hr during the spike with the fire. That's high and serious for anyone in the area unprotected. It is reported to have dropped back down to 1.2 mSv within minutes. The suppression pool (a toroid with a large volume of water under the reactor) may have been damaged when a hydrogen explosion occurred near the bottom of the reactor, instead of higher in the building seen in previous explosions. The amount and nature of damage isn't clear yet.
Everyone has been evacuated from within 20 km - the evacuation started days ago. People 20 -30 km away are staying inside and taking other precautions. The radiation measurements outside the area are very low and of no consequence. I'm downwind about 100km away and not concerned or affected by the minuscule increase in radiation.
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If I may..
For anyone still wondering, the way radiation units works is: you've got three kinds of units. One for the amount of atomic activity (ie atoms going pop per second - "curies" or "becquerels"), another for the amount of energy transfered to a set amount of mass (eg joules per kilogram - "rads" or "grays"), and a third one measuring the effects for irradiation of your whole body (rads or grays multiplied by a "Q" number = "rems" or "sieverts"; "Q" depends on the type of radiation e.g. gamma, alpha, or neutron radiation).
Radiation is like heat (UV rays and visible light are radiation), it's everywhere and only trouble (cell damage stronger/faster than body can replace them) once you're exposed to more than a certain amount... like sunburn. EG bananas often set off radiation detectors e.g. at customs checks. One banana's worth of radiation is more than the amount of radiation detected in a glass of local milk after Three Mile Island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose
1 Sievert = 100 rems.
1 "micro sievert" uSv = 1 millionth of a Sievert.
1 "milli rem" mrem= 1 thousandth of a rem.
1 Sv = 1,000 mSv = 1,000,000 uSv etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Exposure_levels
Living near a nuclear power station = less than 0.01 mSv/year
Eating 3 bananas/day = 0.1 mSv/year
Cosmic radiation (from sky) at sea level = 0.24 mSv/year
Terrestrial radiation (from ground) = 0.28 mSv/year
Natural radiation in the human body = 0.40 mSv/year
Average American's natural radiation exposure: 3.1 mSv/year
Radon in the average US home = 2 mSv/year
Average American's total radiation exposure: 6.2 mSv/year
Smoking 1.5 packs/day = 13 mSv/year
Note these are in Sieverts per year - the difference from plain Sieverts is as between power and energy . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour#Confusion_of_kilowatt_hours_and_kilowatts_per_hour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour#Confusion_of_kilowatt_hours_and_kilowatts_per_hour)
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You realize I will not eat a banana the same way ever again... do YOU? :uhoh :bhead
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You saying per year ..rolex,s postbsays per hour. So does that make 400 uSv. An hr 8760 uSv a year ?
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"French nuclear agency now rates Japan accident at 6"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/japan-quake-nuclear-france-idUSLDE72E2M920110315 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/japan-quake-nuclear-france-idUSLDE72E2M920110315)
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You saying per year ..rolex,s postbsays per hour. So does that make 400 uSv. An hr 8760 uSv a year ?
looks like your right, i used smoot's list and it shows 400 uSv/per hour would be similar
as smoking 1.8 packs/day for a whole year (365days). Dont know how much Bananas tho.
am i wrong?
i was wrong, looks like it would be closer to 1000 packs/day
not a good comparison.
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I'll leave the conversions to someone else but, for sake of comparison, the average person receives about 350 millirem a year. During a refueling outage (highest doses happen during these) at a BWR (higher doses received than PWRs), I received around 1500 millirem total body dose. That included performing extended work underneath the reactor vessel, and assisting in a rescue of a fallen, injured contractor who was unconcious and in a very hard to reach area near the reactor, that took a long time to get him out. Depending on the work, an average worker could expect to see 100 to 1000 millirem yearly at a plant.
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You realize I will not eat a banana the same way ever again... do YOU? :uhoh :bhead
Pretty sure there's worse foods than bananas.. I won't spoil which ones they are :lol
FireDrgn if for some reason you stood there for a year then yeah. Except Rolex said mSv, not uSv. That's 1000x times more. A year's 8760 hours so that's about 3 and a half thousand Sv IOW you'd be long dead before that much exposure.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5530672906_3258971c61_o.jpg)
Cancer risk is wrong on this chart (it doesnt start that early) but it should be good enough for ballpark reference. I'm not sure myself how all the factors involved work.. ie how this chart varies depending on how quickly (or slowly) you're irradiated to those amounts.
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Now another fire at reactor 4.
:bhead
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That would be acute doses/exposures in that chart, moot
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I mean how quick the symptoms drop off as you lengthen the exposure time for those cumulative doses. And/or which symptoms would diminish more or less quickly with increasing slowness of exposure.
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The problems at the plant are:
1. There is no electric power to do anything.
2. The stored fuel rod pools are the main problem. They are located above the reactors in the same buildings and they cannot keep the spent fuel rods covered. They appear to be the radioactive source, not the reactors. They have no way to pump water (seawater - the only source now) up to them without power. They were using firetrucks, but they have been damaged in the hydrogen explosions.
3. There are 6 reactors, all with the same pools and problems. Every time one gets under control, another loses water and it's like juggling 6 hot potatoes.
The radiation from the rods doesn't contain I-131 (Iodine-131), so I-127 (Iodine-127) has no effect. It's meaningless.
The radiation levels outside the immediate area of the plant is in the scale of 0.8 µSv. That is 8/10,000,000th of a Sv. It has no effect on anything.
Japan has bigger problems than that. The trucks aren't running, the grocery stores throughout the entire Tokyo (200 miles and 40 million people south) are running out of food, there is no gasoline (we don't know why) and stores are only open for a few hours because of rolling blackouts from power shortages. Some areas only have 3-4 hours of power per day. Factories and other businesses are all closed.
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Rolex isn't there some equipment that other countries could provide by now (days into this) that would make a useful difference in dealing with the Fukushima reactors?
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That's a question on the minds of many. Generators and diesel airlifted by helicopter to, then off the USS Ronald Reagan to an area near the plant might help. But, they ran away.
There are roughly half a million people in tents and makeshift places that need generators and fuel, food and water. It's cold, raining and snowing in many of the areas. Only a guess, but that might be the priority of the Japanese military and disaster teams. No one off the plant site is in any danger from the minute amount of radioactivity.
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That's a question on the minds of many. Generators and diesel airlifted by helicopter to, then off the USS Ronald Reagan to an area near the plant might help. But, they ran away.
There are roughly half a million people in tents and makeshift places that need generators and fuel, food and water. It's cold, raining and snowing in many of the areas. Only a guess, but that might be the priority of the Japanese military and disaster teams. No one off the plant site is in any danger from the minute amount of radioactivity.
Isn't the US retreating cause the radiation cloud reached the Reagan and 2 crew members tested postie for radiation?
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How many times do I have to say this? There amount of radioactivity was so small, it was insignificant.
I hope they build a monument to the guys at the plant who have worked tirelessly throughout this.
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The people Tepco are liars and those 50 people just bit the bullet. I wouldn't believe a word you hear Rolex when it comes to amounts. I would watch the wind and go get a suit.
When the water fails, cause they cant keep the pressure, they will pack the core with sand and concrete well after it melts.
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It's the spent fuel, not the reactors.
Water failed 5 days ago.
You think there is a conspiracy to coordinate and manipulate the real-time radiation readings from multiple universities and a variety of sources throughout eastern Japan? How do they do that on TV live? :D
Get a suit? I'm lucky to have water, some food and electricity more that others.
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It's the spent fuel, not the reactors.
Water failed 5 days ago.
You think there is a conspiracy to coordinate and manipulate the real-time radiation readings from multiple universities and a variety of sources throughout eastern Japan? How do they do that on TV live? :D
Get a suit? I'm lucky to have water, some food and electricity more that others.
I just want ya to stay safe man .... take a vacation :) ....common here to Cali we'll go party :x...er maby not Cali :headscratch:... tell ya what buy us tickets to Austrailia :) I'll whoop us up the broads :neener:
Ya and another fire in plant 4 From my understanding 1,2,3 store there leftovers inside the containment 4 dont. Oh ya and 2 has russia's left over plutonium in it.
EDIT: those 50 got smart so now thats 6 reactors. what if fires start in 5 & 6?
I'll sweeten the deal and get us killer Digs for a month and Tax us sum scooters. We'll lay low and take em slow... see how its pans out.
Seriously take a vacation... now. You can come back... later.
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I'd leave Rolex. Seriously.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake
Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw.
The level of radiation at the plant surged to 1,000 millisieverts early Wednesday before coming down to 800-600 millisieverts. Still, that was far more than the average
"So the workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk, we are on standby."
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Hiya Tac,
My place is still shaking from another big quake just minutes ago.
The spike was micro (µSv), not milli (mSv). That is 1,000 times less.
Sending the wife to Okinawa in a few days. Already have reservation and planes are flying in and out of Tokyo. I'm collecting blankets from all the neighbors and some of us will fill our cars and head north to help.
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Well good on ya Rolex :salute :pray :angel:
Edit: a 6.0 at just off Choshi
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Hiya Tac,
My place is still shaking from another big quake just minutes ago.
The spike was micro (µSv), not milli (mSv). That is 1,000 times less.
Sending the wife to Okinawa in a few days. Already have reservation and planes are flying in and out of Tokyo. I'm collecting blankets from all the neighbors and some of us will fill our cars and head north to help.
Wish the US Army would give me some gear and stick me on a plane over there.
Unfortunately, I'm far too young and they more than likely wouldn't let me.
Watch your head Rolex :salute
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I think things are going to get whole lot worse out there before better. Earthquake, Tsunami, aftershocks, volcano, food and water shortage, now threat of nuclear meltdown and death by radiation. I seriously can't think of anything worse than that :eek:
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Yeah it is very bad, but the same could happen on the west coast as well, we too are tapped into the ring of fire, and they are starting to pay more attention to deep fault lines, ain't nothin' saying we cant get hit tomorrow. And if yellow stone blows off, the states are done for.
Still, i pray for the dead the cold and hungry, and that things start getting better for japan sooner then later. :pray :pray
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See Rules #4, #14
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Frank Sinatra... "I feel bad for people who don't drink because when they wake up in the morning and get out of bed...Thats the best they are gonna feel."
I think this quote fits
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See Rules #4, #14
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true. :pray
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Yeah it is very bad, but the same could happen on the west coast as well, we too are tapped into the ring of fire, and they are starting to pay more attention to deep fault lines, ain't nothin' saying we cant get hit tomorrow. And if yellow stone blows off, the states are done for.
Still, i pray for the dead the cold and hungry, and that things start getting better for japan sooner then later. :pray :pray
:rofl If yellow stone blows the whole world would be plunged into another ice age! :cry
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I'm wondering if the higher incidence of earthquakes is the result of the core shrinking.
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I'm wondering if the higher incidence of earthquakes is the result of the core shrinking.
Would someone please post one of those nifty "facepalm" pics?
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I'm wondering if the higher incidence of earthquakes is the result of the core shrinking.
I was watching this yesterday in news;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ULvx-KGOHQ
This guy believes a combination of spring equinox and the moon reaching the closest point to Earth in 19 years by Saturday march 19th could cause more seismic activity in next days.
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Seismic activity does have a rythm with sun-spots as well. The rythm of earth activity and solar activity are similar as a graph, - only with a delay.
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Would someone please post one of those nifty "facepalm" pics?
(http://axisvsallies.com/albums/userpics/10001/SiskoAnimated.gif)
at your service
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(http://axisvsallies.com/albums/userpics/10001/SiskoAnimated.gif)
at your service
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Good luck to you Rolex.
This is just unbelivable.
This is a good article of the plant structure. I also found out that these plants even though holding together the storage of the spent rods where not placed in any containment like the core. Im just curious how much was ejected from the explosions. Not to mention the fact reactor 3 uses weapon grade plutonium also as a mox fuel. So the spent rods are really deadly. And these reactors have been operational for 40 years. Thats a lot of waste.
http://www.infowars.com/alert-fukushima-coverup-40-years-of-spent-nuclear-rods-blown-sky-high/
Anyway good luck Rolex, and stay safe.
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Good luck to you Rolex.
This is just unbelivable.
This is a good article of the plant structure. I also found out that these plants even though holding together the storage of the spent rods where not placed in any containment like the core. Im just curious how much was ejected from the explosions. Not to mention the fact reactor 3 uses weapon grade plutonium also as a mox fuel. So the spent rods are really deadly. And these reactors have been operational for 40 years. Thats a lot of waste.
http://www.infowars.com/alert-fukushima-coverup-40-years-of-spent-nuclear-rods-blown-sky-high/
Anyway good luck Rolex, and stay safe.
Their design is similar to the plant I work at. The spent fuel pool is also in a containment structure, it's just not called the containment building because that is a specific term for the building housing the reactor. Most American plants are burning old Soviet weapons as well. We don't just dump them in there however, it is processed into fuel pellets. It is not explosive.
There is suprisingly little waste even after 40 years of operation. One pool holds all of our spent fuel, and we still have plenty of room for more. Fuel lasts for around 6 years in our supersized reactor.
The spent fuel is no more deadly than spent fuel that did not come from nuclear weapons.
The pool, looks a lot like a normal swimming pool, save for all the equipment used to contain the fuel and keep it cooled.
However, with enough damage, the cooling systems can fail and the fuel can heat up.
The anti-nuclear groups have for 40 years prevented the nuclear industries from safely disposing of our spent fuel, and now, in cases like Japan, the potential safety of humans can be blamed on those who thought they were doing good.
There are 104 reactors in the United States, every single one of them contains all the nuclear fuel they have spent, on premises. That's 104 reactor's worth of spent fuel just lying in a swimming pool inside ~100 locations, rather than one single highly secured safe site.
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For those unsure of what the problem at the plant is as far as the reactor goes...here's a dumb downed summary as far as I can tell.
When a reactor shuts down, there is a lot of residual heat, even after the control rods have been inserted. With the lost of coolant, this residual heat has stayed high and is taking longer to die off than normal. The heat is splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen gas buildup in the reactor can lead to an explosion.
In the event of a meltdown, or partial meltdown (neither is a technical term in the industry), the fuel has become so hot it begins to melt. Three Mile Island's reactor suffered this fate. However, before the fuel was able to melt it's way out of the Containment structure, it cooled itself around the edges of the flow, sealing itself from any further contamination outside the reactor.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uJN3Z1ryck&feature=aso
not new - but pretty cool footage
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<snip>The heat is splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen gas buildup in the reactor can lead to an explosion.<snip>
I can see some people freaking out about this one. When water reaches just above 800F @ sea level, the molecular bonds holding the hydrogen and oxygen molecules start breaking. This is not like splitting an atom.
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I can see some people freaking out about this one. When water reaches just above 800F @ sea level, the molecular bonds holding the hydrogen and oxygen molecules start breaking. This is not like splitting an atom.
Thank you for the correction, little too laid back in my explanation.
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@ warhead, yeah I didn't mean that the plutonium was capable of a nuclear explosion, I was just stating that the plutonium is more dangerous to people. The fuel comes from the salt I and II, and whatever the new reg's are for disposal. I mean it makes sense to utilize the stuff, just a shame though that we can;t figure out how to store the waste. Ofcourse with stuff that has a half life of what 24000 years, I mean jeesh.
Anyway I found this news article intresting.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/16/no_happy_ending_nuclear_experts_say
I try to get my news from other news sources, and compare them before I make a decision. So even though these may be conspiracy sites, don;t judge please, just take all the information you can, and disect it for yourself. Right now, from what I understand that company has had a history of lying to the Japanese Gov't since the 70's, so just remember that our CV battlegroup removed itself from the downwind location because of radiation detection. From what I understand they were 100 miles off the coast. Something doesnt sound right about the minimal risk of leaking.
Anyway again, wish everyone the best through this.
Cheers
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"The nuclear emergency in Japan will be a disaster for global warming activists. For a start, Japan’s own emissions will most likely rise in the medium term, now that so many nuclear plants – one of the most greenhouse-friendly power sources – have been knocked out" Quote WUWT
My home country is just about to shut down 7 nuclear plants. The rest of Europe? Nada.
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Would someone please post one of those nifty "facepalm" pics?
(http://files.sharenator.com/triple_facepalm_Kid_Reads_Book_And-s475x380-89743-580.jpg)
That should cover that
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This is some raw footage of the actual tsunami coming in. Different perspective from the interior of a town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpuLlIrUYsI&NR=1
That footage was very brave of the camara person.
My gawd its hard to comprihend.
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damn that driver got out of there pretty quick!
This is some raw footage of the actual tsunami coming in. Different perspective from the interior of a town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpuLlIrUYsI&NR=1
That footage was very brave of the camara person.
My gawd its hard to comprihend.
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My home country is just about to shut down 7 nuclear plants. The rest of Europe? Nada.
Let us be the first and show the world it can be done without this poisoning stuff
and they will follow for sure! Nuclear Plants are safe until the unthinkable happen,
and what then????
Just in "The American Embassy in Japan has told Americans to evacuate a radius of 50 miles from the Fukushima nuclear plant."
i still hope for an happy end :pray
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I forgot to add in the factor of snow out there too as another factor to their already misery..
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Let us be the first and show the world it can be done without this poisoning stuff
and they will follow for sure! Nuclear Plants are safe until the unthinkable happen,
and what then????
What is the use of injecting nuclear politics back into this thread...
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This is some raw footage of the actual tsunami coming in. Different perspective from the interior of a town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpuLlIrUYsI&NR=1
That footage was very brave of the camara person.
My gawd its hard to comprihend.
look a few posts above.
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This is some raw footage of the actual tsunami coming in. Different perspective from the interior of a town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpuLlIrUYsI&NR=1
That footage was very brave of the camara person.
My gawd its hard to comprihend.
Wow :confused: i know that feeling, i sat here watching it happen live on TV and just didnt know what to think, watching everything just vanish left me speechless, I lived in Vader, Washington when Mt Saint Helens blew, we was far enough north to miss any damage but we had lots of ash to clean up, but that compares to what has happened and is happening in Japan, its heart wrenching for those people
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@ warhead, yeah I didn't mean that the plutonium was capable of a nuclear explosion, I was just stating that the plutonium is more dangerous to people. The fuel comes from the salt I and II, and whatever the new reg's are for disposal. I mean it makes sense to utilize the stuff, just a shame though that we can;t figure out how to store the waste. Ofcourse with stuff that has a half life of what 24000 years, I mean jeesh.
Anyway I found this news article intresting.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/16/no_happy_ending_nuclear_experts_say
I try to get my news from other news sources, and compare them before I make a decision. So even though these may be conspiracy sites, don;t judge please, just take all the information you can, and disect it for yourself. Right now, from what I understand that company has had a history of lying to the Japanese Gov't since the 70's, so just remember that our CV battlegroup removed itself from the downwind location because of radiation detection. From what I understand they were 100 miles off the coast. Something doesnt sound right about the minimal risk of leaking.
Anyway again, wish everyone the best through this.
Cheers
That is 24,000 years till it is no longer radioactive. It will only take a few hundred years to be as radioactive as the mountain it should be stored in, or the soil around the mountain.
While nuclear waste is certainly a problem that doesn't go away in a short time, it has far less an impact than the waste and byproducts from coal plants. Having a safe secure centralized location (Yucca Mountain), will negate the risk we pass down to our later generations.
As far as it being more dangerous to use old weapons for fuel, would you rather a bunch of warheads be floating around the Soviet countryside winding up in God know's who's hands, or be burnt up in nuclear power plants?
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Japan Cites Radiation in Tap Water, Milk, Spinach Near Nuclear Plant
FUKUSHIMA, Japan -- Japan has reported trace amounts of radiation in tap water, spinach and milk in several areas amid concerns about leaks from a damaged nuclear power plant.
A government ministry reported Saturday that small amounts of the iodine was found in tap water in Tokyo and five other prefectures. The ministry says the amounts did not exceed government safety limits but usual tests show no iodine.
Earlier Saturday, Japan reported elevated radiation levels in spinach and milk from farms near its tsunami-crippled nuclear complex, as emergency teams scrambled Saturday to restore power to the plant so it could cool dangerously overheated fuel.......
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/japan-cites-radiation-milk-spinach-near-nuclear-plant/
:(
Sun
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"Edano said the amount of radiation detected in the milk would as much as one CT scan if consumed continually for a year while for spinatch it would be a fifth of one CT scan. "
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There are still very serious challenges and problems at the plant.
Large crane pumps, used to pour concrete in high-rise construction are on the way to the site, but they are days away. They can extend directly over the #3 building to keep a flow of water over the SFR pool. The fire trucks will have to keep flooding as best they can until the other trucks get there.
Things are never as simple or easy as the media understands or reports. You don't want too little water, and you don' t want too much, either. As long as they're spraying water, the electrical guys can't hook up the new external power source to the cooling systems.
The pumps stop, then the power guys rush in wearing radioactive suits to work on the power, but they can't linger very long because of the radiation levels.
They couldn't run the external power line (6,900 volts) directly to the area because of debris from the explosions. They had to run it around the side, taking more time. Also, you don't just plug it in like your toaster. The switchgear and motor starters were damaged by the tsunami, so they need to evaluated and test or bypassed with new temporary ones.
Everyone has to rehearse their motions in this dance between teams. They are under a stopwatch, so a mistake can mean overexposure. It may have taken six months to do this during the original construction, and they're trying to do it in days.
Number 5 and #6 are using external power now for cooling and their SFR pool temperatures are going down. They are out of the picture. They hope to have #1 and #2 using external power for cooling today (it's 7am Sunday As I type this), if the systems are not damaged. Numbers 3 and 4 will be last.
Testing has shown some contamination (iodine and cesium - from the fuel rods) of local spinach and milk. The amounts are small, but that's why they test. Now the distribution will be controlled. You would have to eat a large amount of unwashed spinach every day for a year to receive the same dosage as a CT scan. Yes, you can wash it off, so please keep that in mind if the media forget to mention it.
Some trace amounts of iodine and cesium also found in water testing in several areas. Those are expected in this situation. If the safe limit is defined as under 100 goobers, the amount found was 0.8 of a goober. That's a scale I just made up (The Rolex scale). Remember that also in case the reporting doesn't describe it.
All four SFR pool temperatures are under 100C, so there is no boiling. There will still be rapid evaporation, but let's hope they can keep it controlled. There are still extraordinary mountains to climb at the plant.
One of the chiefs of the Tokyo firemen who at the site was holding back tears as he apologized on TV to the families of the men he has had to keep on site. His actions made me think they may be over their exposure limits, but they won't leave.
Lastly, for today, there is a squabble with the French government. They have ordered the members of their small search and rescue team up north to evacuate to an area far away from the plant. Farther than the evacuation area everyone is using. The Japanese said to either go back or get out of Japan, since there are hundreds of thousands of people in the area they left and there is no radiation danger in that area.
That brings me to my last point. It is not political, it is simply my opinion about policy, so I hope Skuzzy will understand that.
I, and many others here, are disappointed in foreign governments telling their citizens that they should ignore what the Japanese government is saying and leave Japan. I consider it to be a disservice to people here who are trying to act with common sense and calm in this situation. Japanese see all these people rush in a panic and it stokes fear and confusion. Where are they going to evacuate to? Imagine if the tables were turned. I wish the British, French, German, Swiss and US governments (the major culprits) would shut. the. hell. up.
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I'm Ashamed for my Generation and my Generation before
No one Learned after Tschernobil,They west Blamed the Communists that they send Soldiers so called Hero's to shut down Tschernobil thousands died.
After Tschernobil they Promised to explore Maschines who go to A nuclear plant and fix it.NO they do they same like the Communist all was lie
they Created Hero's.
I'm a Technical engineer I worked for many Big Companies even US too
I didn't know about Nuclear Plant but now the show in TV how it works,with 2 cooling water systems that need electric pumps? OMG this is suicide and expensive
I use to cool down Big Heat Laminators heat exchanger without electric pumps cools Heater from 800°C down to 55°C to protect the Airpresure Cylinder's.
2 systems = 2 risks
Rolex every one that I knew in Germany and Greece are worry about the People in Japan all our Thor's are with the People in Japan
I hope and I knew it will be happen that everything will go well again cause Japan's are Perfectionist.
God will help a little bit too
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Rolex, thanks again for your updates.
Although the situation in North Africa dominates the news here, Japan is still very much in our hearts and prayers.
Regards,
Sun
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Would someone please post one of those nifty "facepalm" pics?
Core gets smaller, plates crowd together.
Basic physics.
Can pumping out millions of gallons of oil that is sometimes at 50,000 pounds of pressure have an effect?
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You bump this thread, with that crap?
How dare you. Start your own thread.
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Bump.
Contaminated drinking water?
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What did you expect?
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What did you expect?
You guys really do think water just magicly comes out the faucet when you turn the nob or that all water in Japan comes from within a couple miles of the most troubled nuclear plant over there? :rolleyes: :uhoh :bolt: :devil
I mean, I could go off on another thousand-umpty word rant about the miracles and marvels of modern plumbing and infrastructure and impacts a 9.0 earthquake has to those systems, their capabilities and previously isolated, secured and uncontaminated water sources. Incase you need a hint, think of all the pipes and utilities that run or might run under your street or any street, now think of what might happen to all those utilities and the potable water services when all, most or some of those pipes break within the same general area - then multiply that by every single subteranian utility within an impactable distance to a 9.0 earthquake.
:banana:
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I bumped it with the contaminated drinking water header in hopes that someone could update us on the situation.
But nevermind all that, you brainiacs are too busy trying to impress us with your rapier wit and un-disputed knowledge of plumbing.
If you have no current information to add, please stfu.
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Okay then, Here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fukushima+radiation+contaminated+water)
and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_nuclear_accidents)
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Okay then, Here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fukushima+radiation+contaminated+water)
and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_nuclear_accidents)
:lol Yeah, you got me good.
Sorry I came off a little harsh there.
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Now now Melvin, just because I grew up in a region that educated itself and respected earthquakes while the rest of the country was cracking jokes and calling us stupid for choosing to live with them doesn't mean I can't have a little fun when the tides are turned. Besides your question is quite broad while also a no-brainer. If the shaking was strong enough to break some pipes in the ground, then pipes have been broken and depending on severity lots of them and in lots of different places. Contaminated with radiation?... how much water in japan gets piped within a criticaly short distance to the nuclear plant?... heck if the plumbing was knocked out that kept the reactors cool and if a 50' pipeline carrying the entire country's drinkable water supply ran within many miles of that (nevermind close enough to possibley be contaminated with radiation)...
You want some facts, here ya go: Those who were stocked up and prepared with water in their emergency kits are now starting to run out. Those who weren't prepared have already bought up all the stock that the stores had. Other imediate regions not as severly effected (still have safe and running water) will likely be diverting all their stocks to where it is needed by those who don't have any safe or running water. By now the government and disaster organizations should have supply routes in place to distribute fresh stocks as well as locations where clean and safe water is being distributed to those who can bring a jug and fill it. If these are lacking in Japan, taughted as the most prepared and organized to handle these tpye of disasters, then something terrible has gone wrong somewhere and likely you're gonna see some heads roll.
If you can look past the media sensationalism and discover that aid is being distributed, supplies are getting in and being distributed, and the military has every available trained personel and available piece of water purification equipment in place throughout the worst impacted regions, then things are going according to plan.
Lesson of today - splooge $5 and make sure you got some fresh jugs stocked up somewhere in your place. Every few years splooge another $5 and rotate out the old stock with the new. Even if you have a home filtering device, these can be a problem and most will not work for many reasons after an emergency, even the ones with their own resevoir as it's hit-or-miss if it's installed with a backflow preventor for in the event water pressure is lost (unless you use a gravity-powered style pitcher filters - those are great to have in a home emergency kit).
Edit - And I'm not saying stupid people don't live here in California anyways. As long as they're not ripping up the undamaged street pipes in Japan to get at the sitting water in them, like some did in LA during northridge, I'm not too worried and confident they'll come through.
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Possible containment breach in unit #3. I hope this is not the case but fear it is.
Regards,
Sun
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/24/death-toll-japan-quake-tsunami-tops-10000/
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/25/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1
Dangerous breach suspected at Japanese nuke plant
Published March 24, 2011
TOKYO – A suspected breach in the reactor core at one unit of a stricken Fukushima nuclear plant could mean more serious radioactive contamination, Japanese officials said Friday, revealing what may prove a major setback in the mission to bring the leaking plant under control.
The uncertain situation halted work Friday at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex, where dozens had been working feverishly to stop the overheated plant from leaking dangerous radiation, officials said.
Suspicions of a possible breach were raised when two workers waded into water 10,000 more radiactive than normal and suffered skin burns, the Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency said.
However, though damage cannot be ruled out, the cause remained unclear, spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama told reporters.
"It is possible there may be damage somewhere in the reactor," he said, adding later that there was no data suggesting there were any cracks and that a leak in the plumbing or the vents could be to blame....."
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"Extreme radiation detected at Fukushima plant no. 2"
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/27_12.html
This is not good..
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TEPCO is now backpeddling on the figures....I dont believe them.
When it gets so hot that life cannot be sustained near one of units then that reactor will be in "freefall" with no one to tend it.
Left alone, it will follow the laws of physics to a predictable outcome.
This could leave the ENTIRE Fukushima site w/5 more reactors (each of them with spent rod holding pools) unattended and inaccessible.
Plan C is now in order....concrete, cement and boric acid.
Regards,
Sun
Emergency Workers Flee Nuclear Plant After Report of Radioactivity Spike
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/27/workers-grapple-radioactive-water-troubled-japan-nuclear-plant/
TOKYO -- Emergency workers struggling to pump contaminated water from Japan's stricken nuclear complex fled from one of the troubled reactors Sunday after reporting a huge increase in radioactivity -- a spike that officials later apologetically said was inaccurate.
The apology came after employees fled the complex's Unit 2 reactor when a reading showed radiation levels had reached 10 million times higher than normal in the reactor's cooling system. Officials said they were so high that the worker taking the measurements had withdrawn before taking a second reading.
On Sunday night, though, plant operators said that while the water was contaminated with radiation, the extremely high reading was a mistake.
"The number is not credible," said Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorry."
He said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.
The situation came as officials acknowledged there was radioactive water in all four of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex's most troubled reactors, and as airborne radiation in Unit 2 measured 1,000 millisieverts per hour -- four times the limit deemed safe by the government, Kurita said.
Officials say they still don't know where the radioactive water is coming from, though government spokesman Yukio Edano has said some is "almost certainly" seeping from a cracked reactor core in one of the units.
While the discovery of the high radiation levels -- and the evacuation of workers from one reactor unit -- again delayed efforts to bring the deeply troubled complex under control, Edano insisted the situation had partially stabilized.....
Edited for incorrect link--Sun
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Regarding the water pollution, most fresh water usually comes from open fresh water pools. Lakes, rivers etc. which are mechanically filtered and chemically sanitized. In some cases ground water is used but it can't serve any larger communities normally. In some cases the water is filtered using 'artificial ground water' where lake water is pumped on sand soil and then the filtered water pumped for processing. In even rarer cases reverse osmosis is used in which case even sea water is suitable.
Since the water originates from open pools, radiation can very easily get into them just through regular rain. The filtering doesn't have the ability to remove radiactivity, it was never even designed for that. It requires no broken pipes whatsoever.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfy1CoxrMo&feature=aso
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1rDrOc/www.tampabay.com/blogs/alleyes/content/earthquake-tsunami-japan - pictures
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Regarding the water pollution, most fresh water usually comes from open fresh water pools. Lakes, rivers etc. which are mechanically filtered and chemically sanitized. In some cases ground water is used but it can't serve any larger communities normally. In some cases the water is filtered using 'artificial ground water' where lake water is pumped on sand soil and then the filtered water pumped for processing. In even rarer cases reverse osmosis is used in which case even sea water is suitable.
Since the water originates from open pools, radiation can very easily get into them just through regular rain. The filtering doesn't have the ability to remove radiactivity, it was never even designed for that. It requires no broken pipes whatsoever.
At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated. I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system. We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.
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At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated. I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system. We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.
War,
Whats the next plan of attack for these guys?
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At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated. I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system. We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.
The only way I could think of a closed system getting contaminated would be a coil getting cracked or corroded to the point of failing. Even then, the system pressure would keep most of the contaminants out. A more likely possibility would be a failed chiller tube, but that's extremely rare.
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War,
Whats the next plan of attack for these guys?
In simple terms, they need to regain integrity of containment systems, get the cooling systems back in full operation, and I imagine, start removing fuel, unburned and spent fuel, and probably seal these reactors up for good.
A modern nuclear power plant is completely at the mercy of procedure, there is literally a written procedure for plugging a refridgerator into an outlet in a breakroom.
The events here have thrown everything off as far as procedure. At our plant, the public's safety would be the first responsibility, and that is acheived through integrity of safety systems, even at the cost of continued operation.
But in this worse case scenario, there is no proper procedure. Until they can lower radiation and contamination levels near the reactor, the cleanup will be delayed.
I've been on the refueling floor (top floor around the reactor and spent fuel pool) when large amounts of airborn contamination has been released, that was as chaotic and high tensed as I've seen in a plant. I can't imagine how stressful the situation would be to the operations teams in the Japanese plants. We are very anal about conamination, it slows and inhibits work. They have to get a control on that situation before major cleanup and repair can continue.
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Magnitude-6.5 quake off Japan; small tsunami alert
4 hours ago
NEW YORK — A magnitude-6.5 earthquake shook eastern Japan off the quake-ravaged coast on Monday morning, the U.S. Geological Survey reported, prompting Japan to issue a tsunami alert.
There were no immediate reports of damage or injuries, but the Japan Meteorological Agency announced that a tsunami of up to 1.6 feet (a half meter) may wash into Miyagi Prefecture.
The tsunami alert was localized to Japan. The U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said no wave was expected in Hawaii or on the U.S. west coast.
The alert was prompted by a quake that the U.S. Geological Survey measured at 7:23 a.m. Monday Japan time (2223 GMT Sunday) near the east coast of Honshu.
The USGS said the quake was 3.7 miles (5.9 kilometers) deep.
A magnitude-9 quake off Japan's northeast coast on March 11 triggered a tsunami that barreled onshore, triggering a humanitarian disaster that is thought to have killed about 18,000 people.
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At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated. I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system. We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.
Sorry but I was talking about fresh water reservoirs which are used to supply drinking water. In Japan radiation got vented to air -> moves to any open source of water via air.
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Sorry but I was talking about fresh water reservoirs which are used to supply drinking water. In Japan radiation got vented to air -> moves to any open source of water via air.
Let's clear up the terminology here. Radiation and Contamination are two separate animals. Radiation is emitted, in the same manner as light, it doesn't fly up and come down, it doesn't turn corners, it doesn't seep into the ground. Contamination however, are radioactive particles that can do all of that.
If a plant is leaking radiation, it's not going to contaminate the ground water. If a plant is leaking contamination, it can do that.
The separation of these terms is very very important when dealing with any sort of nuclear release.
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Let's clear up the terminology here. Radiation and Contamination are two separate animals. Radiation is emitted, in the same manner as light, it doesn't fly up and come down, it doesn't turn corners, it doesn't seep into the ground. Contamination however, are radioactive particles that can do all of that.
If a plant is leaking radiation, it's not going to contaminate the ground water. If a plant is leaking contamination, it can do that.
The separation of these terms is very very important when dealing with any sort of nuclear release.
Ok lets speak about contamination then. The delivery method remains the same. Contamination is vented -> ends up to open water reservoirs.
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How long does the pluotonium in the dirt last that they just found, 6500 years or so?
How was the blanket trip Rolex?
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How long does the pluotonium in the dirt last that they just found, 6500 years or so?
How was the blanket trip Rolex?
Well, it takes a long time for plutonium to be completely non-radioactive, the half-life of plutonium-238 is 88 years, 239 is around 24,000. But don't forget, it also takes regular soil a long time to become non-radioactive as well.
If not cleaned up, probably a few hundred years or less before it would be below background levels (it will be cleaned up far before that).
Plutonium really isn't that nasty as far as negative effects on humans goes. A distance with nothing but air in between you, or paper, or clothing is enough to stop the Alpha particles from reaching your body. The threat really comes when it is ingested or inhaled. However, with a proper cleanup, that hopefully will not be happening.
Compared to pollution from a properly running coal plant, this is nothing.
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The tough part of the current situation is not being able to stop contamination from leaving the plant. The best way to do that would be to stop emergency cooling efforts and repair the systems and infrastructure damage, obviously that is not an option. So until they are able to lower the radiation levels near the reactor to a point where work can begin on repairing vital systems, there is going to be a leaking of radioactive contamination. It should remain in a relatively small radius around the plant however.
I've pretty much given up hope of calming those who have fallen victim to fear mongering. Either people who claim to be scared can do a little research and understand what is happening, or they can continue waiting for a nuclear holocaust while accusing authorities of lying to them (for what reason they would lie I have no explanation).
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This guy definitely needs some calming:
Head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/29/workers-japan-nuke-plant-lost-race-save-reactor-expert-says/
Workers at the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant appeared to have "lost the race" to save one of the reactors, a U.S. expert told the Guardian.
Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor.
"The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey told the paper.
Lahey did add there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe.
Japan was hit by another earthquake Wednesday after a magnitude-5.5 earthquake struck off the east coast of Honshu, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
Japan's government vowed Tuesday to overhaul nuclear safety standards once its radiation-leaking reactor complex is under control, admitting that its safeguards were insufficient to protect the plant against the March 11 tsunami.
The struggle to contain radiation at the complex has unfolded with near-constant missteps — including two workers drenched Tuesday with radioactive water despite wearing supposedly waterproof suits. The unfolding drama has drawn increasing criticism of the utility that owns the plant as well as scrutiny of Japan's preparedness for nuclear crises.
"Our preparedness was not sufficient," Edano told reporters. "When the current crisis is over, we must examine the accident closely and thoroughly review" safety standards........
Cover the plant most threatening now that would deprive access to tend the other plants.
http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/quote_3_Raging_Nuclear_Meltdowns_In_Progress_--_Dr_Michio_Kaku?id=c2bc6fe136b85fd7ed6
Regards,
Sun
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What I read was that the workers who got wet did so because they neglected rad readings or protocols.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear-reactor
"At least part of the molten core, which includes melted fuel rods and zirconium alloy cladding, seemed to have sunk through the steel "lower head" of the pressure vessel around reactor two, Lahey said"
"The indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is down on the floor of the drywell," Lahey said. "I hope I am wrong, but that is certainly what the evidence is pointing towards."
"The drywell is surrounded by a secondary steel-and-concrete structure designed to keep radioactive material from escaping into the environment. But an earlier hydrogen explosion at the reactor may have damaged this."
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/BWR_Mark_I_Containment,_diagram.png/581px-BWR_Mark_I_Containment,_diagram.png)
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I've pretty much given up hope of calming those who have fallen victim to fear mongering. Either people who claim to be scared can do a little research and understand what is happening, or they can continue waiting for a nuclear holocaust while accusing authorities of lying to them (for what reason they would lie I have no explanation).
Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) admitted to the possibility in its early March 28 press conference that the steel Reactor Pressure Vessels that hold nuclear fuel rods in the Reactors 1, 2, 3 at Fukushima I Nuclear Plant may have broken. TEPCO explained the situation "Imagine there's a hole." Because of this "hole", contaminated water that's been poured into the Pressure Vessels to cool the fuel rods continues to leak, it is assumed.
In the Reactors 1, 2, and 3, the water level within the Pressure Vessels are not rising as much as desired. TEPCO admitted in the March 28 press conference that the reason why the Pressure Vessels haven't been filled with water was "probably a hole near the bottom, that's the image we have". Asked why there was a hole, TEPCO answered they did not know.
The Reactor Pressure Vessels (RPVs) are the most important of the 5-layer protection against radiation leak (other 4 are the fuel pellets, cladding of fuel rods, Container Vessels, and the Reactor buildings). The RPVs at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant is made of 16-centimeter thick steel, and it has an outlet at the bottom to insert measuring instruments. It is possible that the leak is from that area.
TEPCO also admitted to the possibility of the exposed nuclear fuel rods overheating and damaging the RPVs. According to the nuclear experts, if the fuel rods get damaged and start to melt, it will fall to the bottom of the RPVs and settle. It then becomes harder to cool with water effectively, because the surface area is smaller. It is possible that the melted fuel rods melted the wall of the RPVs with high temperature and created a hole.
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Radioactive water obstructing Fukushima cooling operation.
is this radiation or contaminated water?
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290170.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290170.html)
"The water has filled trenches extending from the turbine buildings at the No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 reactors and is also lying in pools in the basements of the three reactors' turbine buildings. It is thought that the water in the trenches flowed from the basements
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the plant's operator, said it was planning to pump the contaminated water into storage tanks on the grounds of the plant. That will involve shifting thousands of tons of radioactive water. Workers have been piling up dirt around the trenches to prevent them from spilling over. TEPCO workers began piling more dirt around the entrance to the shaft at the No. 1 reactor from Monday.
Stricken nuclear plant faces staffing difficulties ...These guys are getting $133 a day?
""We cannot force them to go. It's been such a headache."
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290168.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290168.html)
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Water is not radioactive, therefore something radioactive must be in the water, so it would be contaminated water, if you were asking the question for real.
My comment of calming fears is about the hype surrounding the events. People are still waiting for a nuclear explosion and large death toll, which is not going to happen.
As I said before, even with all the damage to the reactor vessel and external contamination around the plant, the risks and contamination isn't even close to what a properly running coal plant produces.
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Nuclear contamination from this disaster is less likely to kill you on the other side of the world than over exposure to sunlight.
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Nuclear contamination from this disaster is less likely to kill you on the other side of the world than over exposure to sunlight.
Bat,
How bout there in Japan?
I'm not worried about it... I live within the 50 <20km ring actually> mile ring here in the US.
Really not the point.
Here in Cali we have the Bakesfield natural gas deposit, one of the largest in the world to date. It was discovered back in the 50's by Hess Oil, some loley geoligist and his crew, named Edward McCollough. We could split gas that and make Hydogen and Co2 , send the C02 back into the well to push out the Gas and burn the Hydrogen for power, which is what 20x the power of the gas?. The exhaust is water.
Why do we need this here?
Why would we make some so damaging if pretel something went wrong? Why put it on a fualt line?
What are the alternatives?
How many of these mothers do they have in UK? 19
How many are going off line? Why?
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Nuclear contamination from this disaster is less likely to kill you on the other side of the world than over exposure to sunlight.
All the comments here about the radiation reaching Alaska
and all the doubt when the news reports the levels are far,
far below what is considered unsafe are absolutely
ridiculous.
It appalls me once again that people would rather
panic and feel unsafe, paranoid, as opposed to following the
example of the Japanese people who have stayed for the
most part calm throughout this ordeal.
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I don't know the answers to those questions. I was not directing my comment at anyone personaly. Just throwing it out there!
I could even be wrong. I just pulled the comment out of my backside as usual :)
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Bat,
How bout there in Japan?
I'm not worried about it... I live within the 50 <20km ring actually> mile ring here in the US.
Really not the point.
Here in Cali we have the Bakesfield natural gas deposit, one of the largest in the world to date. It was discovered back in the 50's by Hess Oil, some loley geoligist and his crew, named Edward McCollough. We could split gas that and make Hydogen and Co2 , send the C02 back into the well to push out the Gas and burn the Hydrogen for power, which is what 20x the power of the gas?. The exhaust is water.
Why do we need this here?
Why would we make some so damaging if pretel something went wrong? Why put it on a fualt line?
What are the alternatives?
How many of these mothers do they have in UK? 19
How many are going off line? Why?
We need nuclear because nothing else matches it as far as power output, and safety. It is also an extremely clean fuel source. Right now, and for a very long time to come, the only viable alternative to nuclear is coal and natural gas. Guess which one is less harmful to the environment and humans....nuclear.
In the U.S. and now Japan, we face a dire problem of demand being greater than supply of energy. There is no other fuel source other than coal and gas and nuclear capable of keeping supply above demand.
It truly is as simple as that.
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They're going to start dispersing a resin on the ground at the facility to limit the spread of wind-blown particles.
An enclosure using special fabric is going to be erected over the #4 building soon as a test for the same reason.
The contaminated water in the turbine buildings and trenches outside the turbine buildings may be transferred to a field-modified tanker brought in just off shore of the plant. There is nowhere else near to store that much water.
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We need nuclear because nothing else matches it as far as power output, and safety. It is also an extremely clean fuel source. Right now, and for a very long time to come, the only viable alternative to nuclear is coal and natural gas. Guess which one is less harmful to the environment and humans....nuclear.
In the U.S. and now Japan, we face a dire problem of demand being greater than supply of energy. There is no other fuel source other than coal and gas and nuclear capable of keeping supply above demand.
It truly is as simple as that.
Because it needed repeating.
So, since you are in the field, talk to me about Thorium.
Is it really a viable alternative?
Has there been enough research?
Is it really safer?
Is it just a pipe dream?
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Because it needed repeating.
So, since you are in the field, talk to me about Thorium.
Is it really a viable alternative?
Has there been enough research?
Is it really safer?
Is it just a pipe dream?
An old student of mine wrote a term paper on the thorium fuel cycle and viability. I'll see if I can dig it up
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We need nuclear because nothing else matches it as far as power output, and safety. It is also an extremely clean fuel source. Right now, and for a very long time to come, the only viable alternative to nuclear is coal and natural gas. Guess which one is less harmful to the environment and humans....nuclear.
In the U.S. and now Japan, we face a dire problem of demand being greater than supply of energy. There is no other fuel source other than coal and gas and nuclear capable of keeping supply above demand.
It truly is as simple as that.
Hydrogen would be alot better
First Hydrogen Power Plant in Italy
"This power plant has a capacity of 12 megawatt and burns hydrogen gas in a turbine developed in partnership with General Electric."
http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/first-hydrogen-power-plant-in-italy/ (http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/first-hydrogen-power-plant-in-italy/)
New Mexico Hydrogen Plant
"The 10-megawatt New Mexico plant would be designed to smooth the natural variability of the energy created by wind and solar generators, creating enough electricity to power about 6,000 homes and business"
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/07/16/firm-to-build-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/# (http://cleantechnica.com/2009/07/16/firm-to-build-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#)
Australia Hydrogen Power Plant
"Mr Lasich's technique heats the water to 1000 degrees Celsius, a temperature at which the process delivers 140 watts worth of hydrogen for every 100 watts of electricity.
The hydrogen would be stored and used to produce power after dark, by converting it directly to electricity through a fuel cell or reverse electrolysis, or using it to power a generator."
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.22c.html (http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.22c.html)
Abu Dhabi Hydrogen Power Plant
"The hydrogen power plant will generate approximately 400 MW of low-carbon electricity"
http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9031897&contentId=7058364 (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9031897&contentId=7058364)
Molokia Hydrogen Power Plant
http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/521136.html (http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/521136.html)
Hydrogen Energy California power plant
http://hydrogenenergycalifornia.com/ (http://hydrogenenergycalifornia.com/)
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IAEA calls nuclear safety summit amid Japan crisis
"The disaster has prompted a rethink of nuclear power around the world, just as the technology was starting to regain momentum"
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290166.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290166.html)
ANALYSIS: How long will radioactive water leak from crippled reactors?
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290167.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103290167.html)
What tempature does plutonium burn at?
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How long before we can build a power station in space?
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How long before we can build a power station in space?
Soon as they find an extension cord long enough that Skuzzy won't trip over
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Soon as they find an extension cord long enough that Skuzzy won't trip over
:furious beat me to it
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How long before we can build a power station in space?
It will make one hell of a re-entry :lol
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Last I heard thorium reactors are around 50 years off. Considering if we started building a traditional PWR right now, it would be be 2-4 years before even that would be online (in the U.S.). So 50 years is probably the minimum.
Wind and Solar don't have the output to replace nuclear or coal, and probably never will, they will most likely only be supplemental.
We are closely approaching an energy crisis in this country, where supply won't match demand. While alternative energy source R&D needs to continue, we also need to act now, not later.
A 10 megawatt hydrogen plan just isn't going to cut it. My single reactor plant puts out over 1600, that's for 2 years straight 24\7 before needing a refuel. Coal can match nuclear output, but it is literally continually refueled. Once a nuclear plant starts burning it's fuel, it practically runs itself. They are incredibly reliable and safe, barring a natural disaster of epic proportions. If countries prefer polluting themselves with the byproducts of coal, then I guess we can live in a nuclear free world, that's an awfully big step backwards in my opinion. You're talking at the very least 50 years before a power source comes along able to replace coal.
I just don't understand the outrage and fear when it comes to the Japan nuclear situation. Where is the international outrage when a coal mine explodes, when a fly ash pond decimates miles and miles of land, when mountain tops are literally torn apart to get at coal, when mercury from coal plants is linked to human disease, etc. Yet even after Three Mile Island and Japan, when nuclear power shows how safe it can be even when the worst possible scenario happens, it's still treated as a nuclear bomb about to go off at anytime.
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Soon as they find an extension cord long enough that Skuzzy won't trip over
:rofl
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Yes, sadly the crisis in the Japanese reactor is like the Hindenburg disaster when it comes to ending popular support for a technology.
I read an article a while back about putting solar panel farms in orbit..thousands of them.. that could provide power to the entire planet. We can do this with today's technology. Problem is getting the power down to earth. Cant use a power cord and beaming the power down with some sort of laser is rather difficult to do :P
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Warhead nailed it again. Hydrogen is incredibly clean and is produced from water, but that's about it for pros. It creates very small amounts of electricity (due to limitations in teh technology these days) and requires over a 50% investment of power before you see any returns. These plants are not self-sustaining, so if we have a natural disaster and the plant isn't able to get the 6 megawatts it needs to produce 10 megawatts, it is creating 0 megawatts. Hydrogen is finding its most support at the moment from coal and oil companies because they know it's something with the word "green" on it they can invest in while still ensuring their own industries dependence on their existing coal and oil burning power facilities. The same reason is why these companies heavily invest against nuclear, because nuclear can be self-sufficient and has the potential to put them all out of buisness (nuclear doesn't need 6 megawatts of "dirty" power to creat 10 megawatts of clean power, it jsut hums out 10 megawatts).
Look into it, you'll find lots of petrolium money backing the hydrogen or other alternative fuel researches that will have a dependence on oil while moving forward with almost nothing being given to the others.
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.....I just don't understand the outrage and fear when it comes to the Japan nuclear situation. Where is the international outrage when a coal mine explodes, when a fly ash pond decimates miles and miles of land, when mountain tops are literally torn apart to get at coal, when mercury from coal plants is linked to human disease, etc. Yet even after Three Mile Island and Japan, when nuclear power shows how safe it can be even when the worst possible scenario happens, it's still treated as a nuclear bomb about to go off at anytime......
I think it's because uranium and plutonium are F-O-R-E-V-E-R and fly-ash, coal mine explosions, mountain tops torn apart and mercury poisoning isn't.
Regards
Sun
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I think it's because uranium and plutonium are F-O-R-E-V-E-R and fly-ash, coal mine explosions, mountain tops torn apart and mercury poisoning isn't.
Regards
Sun
Well that would be true if it wasn't 100% false. Spent fuel only needs a new hundred years or less before it is as radioactive as topsoil. A few decades (most spent fuel is already over 10 years old) at the most would make it much safer for storage.
The pollution from coal, and physical effect on coal however, is pretty permanent.
Proof? Search for the word "half-life" in a dictionary. And then learn the various values of half-lives of your waste. Then do the math to find out long it would take to be at or below background (natural) radiation levels.
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Well that would be true if it wasn't 100% false. Spent fuel only needs a new hundred years or less before it is as radioactive as topsoil. A few decades (most spent fuel is already over 10 years old) at the most would make it much safer for storage.
The pollution from coal, and physical effect on coal however, is pretty permanent.
Proof? Search for the word "half-life" in a dictionary. And then learn the various values of half-lives of your waste. Then do the math to find out long it would take to be at or below background (natural) radiation levels.
dont they use that half-life crap in carbon-14 dating? also if you did the math it would be some insane number too big to fit on a calculator.
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dont they use that half-life crap in carbon-14 dating? also if you did the math it would be some insane number too big to fit on a calculator.
Some radioactive waste has a half life of minutes, some hours, some days, some years, some more.
Some plutonium has a half-life of 80 years, some 20,000. Not one single radioactive element stays radioactive forever.
Top soil has a half-life, so does the potassium in bananas.
Spent fuel only need a few decades to a few hundred years until the soil around it, is more radioactive (not because of the fuel, because of the naturally occuring radioactive elements in the soil).
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Well that would be true if it wasn't 100% false. Spent fuel only needs a new hundred years or less before it is as radioactive as topsoil. A few decades (most spent fuel is already over 10 years old) at the most would make it much safer for storage.
The pollution from coal, and physical effect on coal however, is pretty permanent.
Proof? Search for the word "half-life" in a dictionary. And then learn the various values of half-lives of your waste. Then do the math to find out long it would take to be at or below background (natural) radiation levels.
That would be almost reasonable if the spent fuel rods in the holding pools were the only concern...at least one containment breach is now admitted by TEPCO.
The radiologicals flowing from that breached core makes the threat from the spent fuel rod pools almost laughably insignificant..wouldn't you agree?
How about THOSE half-lifes?
Regards,
Sun
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Some radioactive waste has a half life of minutes, some hours, some days, some years, some more.
Some plutonium has a half-life of 80 years, some 20,000. Not one single radioactive element stays radioactive forever.
Just so you know, IMHO a 20,000 years half life is close enough to forever for me and coincidentally my children...my grand children,my great, great grand children, my...well,I think you see my point.
Regards,
Sun
Edited to make sence with the grand children prop. :D
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Just so you know, IMHO a 20,000 years half life is close enough to forever for me and coincidentally my children...great grand children..my great,my great grandchildren..my great, great great...well,I think you see my point.
Regards,
Sun
Do you know bananas, potassium, cigarettes, human bodies, to name a few, are all radioactive?
It would not take 20,000 before the substance was as radioactive as normal topsoil. Throw the tens of thousand year figures out the window, unless you want to live in an absolute zero radiation world. Which would be impossible seeing as how you get a dose from your own body.
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Do you know bananas, potassium, cigarettes, human bodies, to name a few, are all radioactive?
It would not take 20,000 before the substance was as radioactive as normal topsoil. Throw the tens of thousand year figures out the window, unless you want to live in an absolute zero radiation world. Which would be impossible seeing as how you get a dose from your own body.
"A banana equivalent dose (BED) is a defined to be the absorbed dose of radiation due to eating one banana. It is a concept that was intended to explain the relative danger of radiation by comparison with natural doses. BED is a radiation dose equivalent unit; the corresponding SI unit is the sievert (and rem is also commonly used). The concept has been used in political argument and drawn heavy criticism.[citation needed]
The BED calculation probably originated on a nuclear safety mailing list in 1995.[1] However, the calculation was incorrectly[2] based on the dose for ingestion of pure radioactive potassium-40 (40K) , not the natural ratio found in food....."
"The oft-quoted value of the BED is unjustifiably high and was based on incorrectly applying data for the effective dose due to ingestion of radioactive 40K alone. [14]This is scientifically invalid and effectively ignores the metabolism of 40K in the context of 8,500 times as much stable 39K as found in foodstuff.
Geoff Meggitt (former UK Atomic Energy Authority) said, [15]
Bananas are radioactive—But they aren't a good way to explain radiation exposure. When you eat a banana, your body's level of Potassium-40 doesn't increase. You just get rid of some excess Potassium-40. The net dose of a banana is zero.
The effects of radiation are not linear with dose. This means that a large acute dose is more dangerous (overwhelming the body's repair mechanisms), while the same dose spread over a period of years may not be harmful at all.[citation needed] Consequently it is less meaningful to make comparisons between long-term diet and acute radiation doses.
Many common artificial radioisotopes are categorically more dangerous than the type of radioisotope naturally in bananas, even if the equivalent dose (Sv) is reported as the same. Nuclear power accidents tend to release radioiodine, which is known to be especially dangerous to children because it concentrates in the thyroid gland. Other radioisotopes may accumulate in the lung. The dose from potassium in bananas is less harmful because it is distributed more evenly throughout the body, and does not accumulate."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose
Which of the food groups and/or common substances contain the categorically more dangerous artificial radioisotopes released in nuclear accidents instead of the harmless doses of say.. Potassium-40 contained in a banana?
Regards,
Sun
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Plutonium is not harmful until injested either, how does spent fuel buried in a mountain hurt you?
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Last I heard thorium reactors are around 50 years off. Considering if we started building a traditional PWR right now, it would be be 2-4 years before even that would be online (in the U.S.). So 50 years is probably the minimum.
Kind of incredible but true apparently.
http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2011/01/china-starts-lftr-development-project.html
If you guys are going to argue like this..
for me and coincidentally my children...my grand children,my great, great grand children
can you move it to another thread?
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Kind of incredible but true apparently.
http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2011/01/china-starts-lftr-development-project.html
If you guys are going to argue like this.. can you move it to another thread?
Roger that...Sorry, moot. :salute
Regards,
Sun
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Hehe Don't be sorry... :) Just too many times these discussions go out of control and then Rolex and anyone else from Japan is less likely to keep us updated on how they're doing.
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Hehe Don't be sorry... :) Just too many times these discussions go out of control and then Rolex and anyone else from Japan is less likely to keep us updated on how they're doing.
I don't mind hearing some information from a hands-on powerplant employee about what this all means, either.
I prefer that to regurgitated slopipedia cut/pasting.
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I don't mind hearing some information from a hands-on powerplant employee about what this all means, either.
I prefer that to regurgitated slopipedia cut/pasting.
Indeed, but would be nice if this were to remain a thread about news,
as opposed to nuclear physics.
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Last I heard thorium reactors are around 50 years off. Considering if we started building a traditional PWR right now, it would be be 2-4 years before even that would be online (in the U.S.). So 50 years is probably the minimum.
Wind and Solar don't have the output to replace nuclear or coal, and probably never will, they will most likely only be supplemental.
We are closely approaching an energy crisis in this country, where supply won't match demand. While alternative energy source R&D needs to continue, we also need to act now, not later.
A 10 megawatt hydrogen plan just isn't going to cut it. My single reactor plant puts out over 1600, that's for 2 years straight 24\7 before needing a refuel. Coal can match nuclear output, but it is literally continually refueled. Once a nuclear plant starts burning it's fuel, it practically runs itself. They are incredibly reliable and safe, barring a natural disaster of epic proportions. If countries prefer polluting themselves with the byproducts of coal, then I guess we can live in a nuclear free world, that's an awfully big step backwards in my opinion. You're talking at the very least 50 years before a power source comes along able to replace coal.
I just don't understand the outrage and fear when it comes to the Japan nuclear situation. Where is the international outrage when a coal mine explodes, when a fly ash pond decimates miles and miles of land, when mountain tops are literally torn apart to get at coal, when mercury from coal plants is linked to human disease, etc. Yet even after Three Mile Island and Japan, when nuclear power shows how safe it can be even when the worst possible scenario happens, it's still treated as a nuclear bomb about to go off at anytime.
The reason is ignorance. I would love to see everything go nuke. Less pollution and destruction to the environment.
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Indeed, but would be nice if this were to remain a thread about news,
as opposed to nuclear physics.
News without any explanation of what it means is utterly useless.
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dont they use that half-life crap in carbon-14 dating? also if you did the math it would be some insane number too big to fit on a calculator.
That's why carbon-14 dating is a realtively newer technology, mankind hasn't had instrumentation sophicicated and advanced enough until lately to acuratley get precise enough readings that can then be converted into the age of an object. You are litteraly detecting such small amounts of radiation and then taking those faint emisions and focusing and ampliphying them enough to tell if something is 2500 years old or 2550 years old.
That is something that should be taken into account with the recent Japan nuclear crisis, is that our means and ability (technology) to simply measure and analize radiation and contamination is 100-fold what it was during the Chernoble or 3-Mile disasters.
That would be almost reasonable if the spent fuel rods in the holding pools were the only concern...at least one containment breach is now admitted by TEPCO.
The radiologicals flowing from that breached core makes the threat from the spent fuel rod pools almost laughably insignificant..wouldn't you agree?
How about THOSE half-lifes?
Regards,
Sun
So you then agree with those of us who earlier in this situation, before a vessel was compromised, that this disaster was being hilariously overblown and hyped. I think you'll then also find that while the situation is agreeabley much more dangerous and hazardous now at the plant, it is still contained within a few auxiliary levels of containment (because Chernoble taught the world, better safe with a few feet of solid concrete than sorry).
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Also, Im also surprised the media hasn't mentioned, or offered for comparison, geiger readings from most of the old granite buildings in Manhatten. :devil :rofl :ahand There's a reason buildings built with granite from one of the more infamous quarries that supplied the region are naturaly warmer than the rest in New York.
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That's why carbon-14 dating is a realtively newer technology, mankind hasn't had instrumentation sophicicated and advanced enough until lately to acuratley get precise enough readings that can then be converted into the age of an object. You are litteraly detecting such small amounts of radiation and then taking those faint emisions and focusing and ampliphying them enough to tell if something is 2500 years old or 2550 years old.
That is something that should be taken into account with the recent Japan nuclear crisis, is that our means and ability (technology) to simply measure and analize radiation and contamination is 100-fold what it was during the Chernoble or 3-Mile disasters.
So you then agree with those of us who earlier in this situation, before a vessel was compromised, that this disaster was being hilariously overblown and hyped. I think you'll then also find that while the situation is agreeabley much more dangerous and hazardous now at the plant, it is still contained within a few auxiliary levels of containment (because Chernoble taught the world, better safe with a few feet of solid concrete than sorry).
I'd just like to post this latest act of heroics from these noble workers.
Sun
Japan's Nuclear Rescuers: 'Inevitable Some of Them May Die Within Weeks'
Workers at the disaster-stricken Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan say they expect to die from radiation sickness as a result of their efforts to bring the reactors under control, the mother of one of the men tells Fox News.
The so-called Fukushima 50, the team of brave plant workers struggling to prevent a meltdown to four reactors critically damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, are being repeatedly exposed to dangerously high radioactive levels as they attempt to bring vital cooling systems back online.
Speaking tearfully through an interpreter by phone, the mother of a 32-year-old worker said: “My son and his colleagues have discussed it at length and they have committed themselves to die if necessary to save the nation.
“He told me they have accepted they will all probably die from radiation sickness in the short term or cancer in the long-term.”
The woman spoke to Fox News on the condition of anonymity because, she said, plant workers had been asked by management not to communicate with the media or share details with family members in order to minimize public panic.
She could not confirm if her son or other workers were already suffering from radiation sickness. But she added: “They have concluded between themselves that it is inevitable some of them may die within weeks or months. They know it is impossible for them not to have been exposed to lethal doses of radiation.”...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/31/japans-nuclear-rescuers-inevitable-die-weeks/?test=latestnews
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That's why carbon-14 dating is a realtively newer technology, mankind hasn't had instrumentation sophicicated and advanced enough until lately to acuratley get precise enough readings that can then be converted into the age of an object. You are litteraly detecting such small amounts of radiation and then taking those faint emisions and focusing and ampliphying them enough to tell if something is 2500 years old or 2550 years old.
That is something that should be taken into account with the recent Japan nuclear crisis, is that our means and ability (technology) to simply measure and analize radiation and contamination is 100-fold what it was during the Chernoble or 3-Mile disasters.
So you then agree with those of us who earlier in this situation, before a vessel was compromised, that this disaster was being hilariously overblown and hyped. I think you'll then also find that while the situation is agreeabley much more dangerous and hazardous now at the plant, it is still contained within a few auxiliary levels of containment (because Chernoble taught the world, better safe with a few feet of solid concrete than sorry).
Well, that depends upon the age of the object. Are we talking about 3 years or 3.1 billion years? I remember learning about potassium dating, and that it can reach out further than Carbon-14. Isn't potassium dating what allowed us to determine the age of the earth?
The level of precision is also important, when it comes to dinosaurs, having a give or take of 1,000 years is a pretty decent level of accuracy. However, when viewing something like ancient hominids, 1,000 years is 1/40th of our time on the planet.
-Penguin
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Until one of the fukushima reactors ejects burning fuel and graphite moderator into the parking lots and spews a blue light of ionizing radiation skyward like the RBMK reactor did at chernobyl, I'll have to say it's nowhere near the devastation of chernobyl.
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Do you know of any pics of that - the Chernobyl reactor shining blue?
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Moot I've got a ---possible----photo of "Ethereal blue flash" from the fukushima site...can't vouch for any authenticity...but still, interesting.
http://enenews.com/ethereal-blue-flash-may-occur-during-localized-criticality-bloomberg
Here are some videos of controlled reactor blue flash "pulses".
All the Control Rods are removed simultaneously allowing the nuclear reaction to proceed un-dampened, bringing the energy output of the reactor to 680 Megawatts in 50 milliseconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTzjIEIVG4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgNwtepP-6M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3JKYdGWTE&feature=related
Here is the first report of the neutron beams detected from the Japan site....March 23.
Neutron beam observed 13 times at crippled Fukushima nuke plant
TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.
TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.
The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam, as well.
In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.
In the latest case at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, such a criticality accident has yet to happen.
But the measured neutron beam may be evidence that uranium and plutonium leaked from the plant's nuclear reactors and spent nuclear fuels have discharged a small amount of neutron beams through nuclear fission.
==Kyodo
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80539.html
Regards,
Sun
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Until one of the fukushima reactors ejects burning fuel and graphite moderator into the parking lots and spews a blue light of ionizing radiation skyward like the RBMK reactor did at chernobyl, I'll have to say it's nowhere near the devastation of chernobyl.
See the links above...
Regards,
Sun
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That 1999 criticality accident was because they poured super concentrated uranyl nitrate into high enough amounts to cause criticality.
At chernobyl, some guys were on an apartment roof drinking when it exploded and saw the blue ionization from the exposed core.
It was later obscured by smoke and then the crap they dropped on it hours later.
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Very cool, thank you.
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Another mention of "ethereal blue light" in western media as well as "local criticality" at the Fukushima site. (I guess the public at large is getting a primer in the outward manifestations of a meltdown in progress.)
Regards,
Sun
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4621086/officials-question-radiation-data-at-japanese-nuke-plant
Something else occurred to me: doesn't Japan pass through an acute annual monsoon/Hurricane season?
If they leave these radioactive blowtorches open to the atmosphere and storms come ashore pushing westward....?
Great Scott. :pray
--SD
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Another mention of "ethereal blue light" in western media as well as "local criticality" at the Fukushima site. (I guess the public at large is getting a primer in the outward manifestations of a meltdown in progress.)
Regards,
Sun
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4621086/officials-question-radiation-data-at-japanese-nuke-plant
Something else occurred to me: doesn't Japan pass through an acute annual monsoon/Hurricane season?
If they leave these radioactive blowtorches open to the atmosphere and storms come ashore pushing westward....?
Great Scott. :pray
--SD
well there somewhat in a monsoon area...they are just barely in it because the monsoons passes right on the western edge of japan and the rest is all the way over to the west side of china and down to mongolia or some place like that, either way they could let it open up and cool it down that way.
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A 10 megawatt hydrogen plan just isn't going to cut it. My single reactor plant puts out over 1600, that's for 2 years straight 24\7 before needing a refuel. Coal can match nuclear output, but it is literally continually refueled. Once a nuclear plant starts burning it's fuel, it practically runs itself. They are incredibly reliable and safe, barring a natural disaster of epic proportions. If countries prefer polluting themselves with the byproducts of coal, then I guess we can live in a nuclear free world, that's an awfully big step backwards in my opinion. You're talking at the very least 50 years before a power source comes along able to replace coal.
I just don't understand the outrage and fear when it comes to the Japan nuclear situation. Where is the international outrage when a coal mine explodes, when a fly ash pond decimates miles and miles of land, when mountain tops are literally torn apart to get at coal, when mercury from coal plants is linked to human disease, etc. Yet even after Three Mile Island and Japan, when nuclear power shows how safe it can be even when the worst possible scenario happens, it's still treated as a nuclear bomb about to go off at anytime.
Well, picking the smallest of the 6 hydrogen plants I posted to make your statement :rolleyes:
Two of the plants, Abu Dhabi and California, are 400 and 500 MW, respectivly. Abu Dhabi plant gets its hydrogen from natural gas and the California plant will run on the oil company's bottom end byproduct, Raw Petroleum Coke. Neither derive their hydrogen from water allthough new types of water extraction are coming available. I would rather have 500 of these, than 1 more nuke plant. As the technology gets better prices will come down and hydrogen can easily compete with nuclear. I cant make you push the button, but I posted 2 films of the way the technology works maybe... take a min and look it over :aok It will help the oil company recover more oil and sequester the C02 insted of spewing into the environment.
We need nuclear like a hole in the head... it's safe .. it's safe... till there is an accident. It's safe to ride your bike... till ya get hit by a car!
I doubt we'll see another nuclear plant here in the US in our lifetimes. I know there are about 10, most are AP1000's, waiting for approval and the Tennessee Valley project is on hold. It's byproduct is one of the most toxic things on earth. I would much rather have water/steam as exhaust than toxic fuel rods.
What I really don't care for are the Breeders, just making more and more spent fuel that we have no place for. Its the filthest, the worst of all types of Electric Generation. http://www.3rd1000.com/nuclear/nuke101g.htm (http://www.3rd1000.com/nuclear/nuke101g.htm)
/end Hijack
In the News,
Incredible large cement pumps from Russia are moving in to Fukishima, should they remove the rods or just encapsulate them as well.
Also the delay of restarting many reactors by another electric company in japan for safety reason.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82803.html (http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82803.html)
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If the fuel has melted into a pool, then I doubt they will try to encapsulate it but rather dilute it which will spread the fissile product far enough apart that the reaction stops and the corium created will solidify and slowly cool.
I would guess the "mix" of the concrete would be tailored for this purpose.
At that point, they can encapsulate as they deem necessary.
All of this is just assuming that the fuel has indeed pooled into an uncontrollable mass which would make water cooling only effective for the time that the water is being circulated to slough off the heat.
I would use thier actions and process to glean what is really going on more than the statements.
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If the fuel has melted into a pool, then I doubt they will try to encapsulate it but rather dilute it which will spread the fissile product far enough apart that the reaction stops and the corium created will solidify and slowly cool.
I would guess the "mix" of the concrete would be tailored for this purpose.
At that point, they can encapsulate as they deem necessary.
All of this is just assuming that the fuel has indeed pooled into an uncontrollable mass which would make water cooling only effective for the time that the water is being circulated to slough off the heat.
I would use thier actions and process to glean what is really going on more than the statements.
When the water fails, cause they cant keep the pressure, they will pack the core with sand and concrete well after it melts.
Well 1st, there will have to be another 500 brave soles to remake the containment for 3 reactor buildings to poor cement into as those buildings, the normal cement containment, have been blown to pieces.
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So you've seen pictures of "blown to pieces" containment vessels at fukushima?
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So you've seen pictures of "blown to pieces" containment vessels at fukushima?
No, Have you?
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You made the claim.....figured you would attempt to back it up.
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You made the claim.....figured you would attempt to back it up.
I didnt make any claim read it again.
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Well 1st, there will have to be another 500 brave soles to remake the containment for 3 reactor buildings to poor cement into as those buildings, the normal cement containment, have been blown to pieces.
Having a hard time reading this but....
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Having a hard time reading this but....
Seems perfectly fine to me... go slowly :aok
You have to have something to poor cement into right? to contain the cement right?.... any bells going off yet?
The buildings are the FORMS for the cement. 3 of 4 buildings are gone...those buildings/forms will have to be replaced to poor cement into.
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Seems perfectly fine to me... go slowly :aok
You have to have something to poor cement into right? to contain the cement right?.... any bells going off yet?
The buildings are the FORMS for the cement. 3 of 4 buildings are gone...those buildings/forms will have to be replaced to poor cement into.
Reactors are a big can, which sit in a concrete can called the Containment Building, containment does not refer to concrete forms.
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Gotta get rid of "less-radioactive" water to make room for the "highly-radioactive" water.
I bet that water is tons more radioactive than a banana.
Regards,
Sun
Japanese Nuclear Plant Starts Pumping Millions of Gallons of Radioactive Water Into Pacific
TOKYO -- Workers began pumping more than 3 million gallons of contaminated water from Japan's tsunami-ravaged nuclear plant into the Pacific Ocean on Monday, freeing storage space for even more highly radioactive water that has hampered efforts to stabilize the reactors.
It will take about two days to pump most of the less-radioactive water out of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex, whose cooling systems were knocked out by the magnitude-9.0 earthquake and tsunami on March 11.
Radioactivity is quickly diluted in the ocean, and government officials said the dump should not affect the safety of seafood in the area.
Since the disaster, water with different levels of radioactivity has been pooling throughout the plant. People who live within 12 miles have been evacuated and have not been allowed to return.
The pooling water has damaged systems and the radiation hazard has prevented workers from getting close enough to power up cooling systems needed to stabilize dangerously vulnerable fuel rods.
On Saturday, they discovered that some radioactive water was pouring into the ocean.
The less-radioactive water that officials are purposely dumping into the sea is up to 500 times the legal limit for radiation.
"We think releasing water with low levels of radiation is preferable to allowing water with high levels of radiation to be released into the environment," said Junichi Matsumoto, an official with plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co.
Workers need to get rid of the highly radioactive water, but first they need somewhere safe to put it. Much of the less-radioactive water being dumped into the sea is from the tsunami and had accumulated in a nuclear waste storage building.
The building is not meant to hold water, but it's also not leaking, so engineers decided to empty it so they can pump in the more-radioactive water. The rest of the water going into the sea is coming from a trench beneath two of the plant's six reactors......
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/04/japan-nuke-plant-operator-dump-radioactive-water-ocean/
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Well 1st, there will have to be another 500 brave soles to remake the containment for 3 reactor buildings to poor cement into as those buildings, the normal cement containment, have been blown to pieces.
Go slower?
Ok, I'll bite.
Let's start with the sentence above that makes no sense.
Then we go on to the fact that the containment vessels are not the blown out buildings but rather some extremely strong (many feet thick) "containers" in which just the cap on top by itself is nearly 1,000,000 pounds in weight.
The thin outer buildings are not the containment for the reactors.
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Fukushima Daiichi Reactors 5-6 Stability Under Threat 04.04.11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W7uGvW8xvY&feature=player_embedded
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:(
7.5 mil. times legal limit of iodine in sea
The operator of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says 7.5 million times the legal limit of radioactive iodine 131 has been detected from samples of seawater near the plant.
Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, found on Saturday that contaminated water was leaking from a cracked concrete pit near the No. 2 reactor.
Experts say this makes it clear that highly radioactive substances from the reactor are flowing into the sea, and that the leak must be stopped as soon as possible.
The utility firm said samples of water taken near the water intake of the No. 2 reactor at 11:50 AM Saturday contained 300,000 becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter, or 7.5 million times the legal limit.
TEPCO said the figure had dropped to 200,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, or 5 million times the legal limit, in samples taken at 9:00 AM Monday.
Monday's sample also contained 1.1 million times the legal limit of cesium 137, which has a half life of 30 years.
On March 27th, 13-million becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter of water were detected in the turbine building of the No. 2 reactor. On Wednesday, water was found accumulated in a tunnel near the turbine building and the radiation level on the surface was measured at more than 1,000 millisieverts per hour.
The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says it believes the radioactive substances are from nuclear fuel which leaked from the reactor into the water and flowed out.
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 15:10 +0900 (JST)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/05_27.html
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I doubt TEPCO will have the needed $ for restoration, i mean in combination with the Earthquake disaster combined with the Nuclear Plants Problems
now, even today Ukraine and Belarus spend some 5 percent of their national budgets on Chernobyl every year. I dont know where this will lead Japan :(
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Go slower?
The thin outer buildings are not the containment for the reactors
I never said they were, you have a reading comprehension problem. :lol
Yes those "containers"/ reactors/containment buildings are going to be buried like a sarcophagus in 50' of cement. What will hold the new cement they will poor?
:bhead :
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Some good news to post :
Regards,
Sun
Radioactive Water in Japan No Longer Leaking into Pacific Ocean
TEPCO announced Tuesday it has stopped leaks of high radiation water from the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant into the Pacific Ocean.
The operator of the plant injected a hardening agent beneath a leaking concrete pit in hopes to stem the flow of radioactive water, according to Japan news agency NHK.
The announcement comes after reports that samples taken seawater near one of the plant's reactors contained contained 7.5 million times the legal limit for radioactive iodine on April 2. Two days later, that figure dropped to 5 million...........
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/05/radiation-level-japan-seawater-millions-times-legal-limit/
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I never said they were, you have a reading comprehension problem. :lol
Yes those "containers"/ reactors/containment buildings are going to be buried like a sarcophagus in 50' of cement. What will hold the new cement they will poor?
:bhead :
It's right here below.
Well 1st, there will have to be another 500 brave soles to remake the containment for 3 reactor buildings to poor cement into as those buildings, the normal cement containment, have been blown to pieces.
Even if undamaged, those buildings not be able to contain pouring them full of concrete......because the buildings themselves are only there to keep cover what is inside.
At this point, I feel you are just trolling and will stop responding to you because it counterproductive to this topic.
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They will not make forms to hold the concrete. They will just keep pumping boron laced concrete on top of boron laced concrete in progressively thicker slurry and make a giant mound over the reactors. It will not resemble a building. It will look like a giant blob of concrete. After that is completed and the area decontaminated they may go back and cover that with something that resembles a building.
The squadron of giant concrete pumps being sent to Fukushima will be able to reach all the way down to the bottom of the reactors and pinpoint where the concrete goes.
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Wow...I don't think this has ever been attempted on a melting BWR.(Let alone 2 or three)
The book just keeps getting written as we go along.
Force out the hydrogen buildups with inert gas.
Perhaps some added boron would be helpful to reduce free neutron propagation. :headscratch:
Hope it helps...another hydrogen explosion especially from any already breached primary containment vessel(s) would be devastating...
From other news reports, I gather this procedure will be attempted at the other two(2) crippled units.
Regards,
Sun
Nitrogen Injected at Crippled Japan Nuke Plant to Prevent Explosion
The Tokyo Electric Power Co. injected nitrogen into a reactor Thursday at the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant to prevent an explosion, Kyodo News reports.
Nitrogen was injected into the Unit 1 reactor, a process that could take several days, the Japanese news agency reports.
The inert gas can prevent highly combustible hydrogen from exploding. There have already been three explosions at the compound in the early days of the crisis that was set in motion March 11 when the reactors' cooling systems were crippled by Japan's 9.0-magnitude earthquake and tsunami.
Nitrogen normally is present inside the containment that surrounds the reactor core. Technicians will start pumping more in as early as Wednesday evening, said Junichi Matsumoto, a spokesman for the plant operator. They will start with Unit 1, where pressure and temperatures are highest.
"The nitrogen injection is being considered a precaution," said spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. Nishiyama also denied reports that there was "immediate danger" of an explosion.
This comes as workers stopped a highly radioactive leak into the Pacific off Japan's flooded nuclear complex Wednesday......
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/06/radiation-level-japan-seawater-millions-times-legal-limit/?test=latestnews
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These plants are now completely unapproachable by humans.
Only non-biologicals can approach.
Not good.
Regards,
Sun
Unmanned plane to be used to check radiation levels
TOKYO, April 7, Kyodo
The government intends to use a small U.S. unmanned plane to check radiation levels around spent nuclear fuel pools at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, government sources said Wednesday.
The adoption of the remote-controlled T-Hawk aircraft, which is capable of hovering and moving vertically, was proposed by the U.S. government which has been using it for reconnaissance purposes in military operations in Iraq and other countries, the sources said.
Pools housing spent nuclear fuel rods are open and Tokyo Electric Power Co., the operator of the Fukushima plant, has been pouring massive amounts of water into them to cool them down.
As water contaminated with radioactive materials could flow out of the pools, machines to cool them with recycled water need to be reactivated as soon as possible. But workers are unable to approach them as surrounding radiation levels are believed to be extremely high.
In addition, radioactive substances could fly apart if the rods are exposed as water levels drop in the pools.
With the U.S. side especially concerned about such a risk at the No. 4 reactor, the aircraft is expected to be first used to examine radiation levels around it, the sources said.
Goshi Hosono, a special adviser on the Fukushima crisis to Prime Minister Naoto Kan, said that as there are more than 10,000 spent nuclear fuel rods, it will take ''considerable time'' to process them....
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/83630.html
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/asia/06nuclear.html?_r=4&hp=&pagewanted=all
U.S. Sees Array of New Threats at Japan’s Nuclear Plant
By JAMES GLANZ and WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: April 5, 2011
United States government engineers sent to help with the crisis in Japan are warning that the troubled nuclear plant there is facing a wide array of fresh threats that could persist indefinitely, and that in some cases are expected to increase as a result of the very measures being taken to keep the plant stable, according to a confidential assessment prepared by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Among the new threats that were cited in the assessment, dated March 26, are the mounting stresses placed on the containment structures as they fill with radioactive cooling water, making them more vulnerable to rupture in one of the aftershocks rattling the site after the earthquake and tsunami of March 11. The document also cites the possibility of explosions inside the containment structures due to the release of hydrogen and oxygen from seawater pumped into the reactors, and offers new details on how semimolten fuel rods and salt buildup are impeding the flow of fresh water meant to cool the nuclear cores.
In recent days, workers have grappled with several side effects of the emergency measures taken to keep nuclear fuel at the plant from overheating, including leaks of radioactive water at the site and radiation burns to workers who step into the water. The assessment, as well as interviews with officials familiar with it, points to a new panoply of complex challenges that water creates for the safety of workers and the recovery and long-term stability of the reactors.
While the assessment does not speculate on the likelihood of new explosions or damage from an aftershock, either could lead to a breach of the containment structures in one or more of the crippled reactors, the last barriers that prevent a much more serious release of radiation from the nuclear core. If the fuel continues to heat and melt because of ineffective cooling, some nuclear experts say, that could also leave a radioactive mass that could stay molten for an extended period.
The document, which was obtained by The New York Times, provides a more detailed technical assessment than Japanese officials have provided of the conundrum facing the Japanese as they struggle to prevent more fuel from melting at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. But it appears to rely largely on data shared with American experts by the Japanese.
Among other problems, the document raises new questions about whether pouring water on nuclear fuel in the absence of functioning cooling systems can be sustained indefinitely. Experts have said the Japanese need to continue to keep the fuel cool for many months until the plant can be stabilized, but there is growing awareness that the risks of pumping water on the fuel present a whole new category of challenges that the nuclear industry is only beginning to comprehend.
The document also suggests that fragments or particles of nuclear fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown “up to one mile from the units,” and that pieces of highly radioactive material fell between two units and had to be “bulldozed over,” presumably to protect workers at the site. The ejection of nuclear material, which may have occurred during one of the earlier hydrogen explosions, may indicate more extensive damage to the extremely radioactive pools than previously disclosed........
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It is still all speculation. No one except those who are there and intimately involved are going to be in the know.
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The agencies reporing need to make the distinction between "pressure vessel", "containment vessel", and reactor building when using the word "breach".
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well a 7.4 hit them again and they now have ANOTHER tsunami warning..... jeeeeez
http://www.break.com/index/strange-object-washed-up-on-japans-shore-2039431 - wth is that? O_o
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Just announced: To date, 10,000 + Boeing employees have donated $1,000,000 to the Japan relief fund through payroll deduction.
We rock! :banana: :airplane:
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Just announced: To date, 10,000 + Boeing employees have donated $1,000,000 to the Japan relief fund through payroll deduction.
We rock! :banana: :airplane:
Voluntary I hope?
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Voluntary I hope?
Lots of Corporations will send out some type of notification asking if you want a portion of your paycheck to go to something like this. My company does it all the time. Its all on a voluntary basis.
Wtg Boeing workers :aok
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Lots of Corporations will send out some type of notification asking if you want a portion of your paycheck to go to something like this. My company does it all the time. Its all on a voluntary basis.
Wtg Boeing workers :aok
That makes everything all the sweeter, wtfg Boeing!
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well a 7.4 hit them again and they now have ANOTHER tsunami warning..... jeeeeez
http://www.break.com/index/strange-object-washed-up-on-japans-shore-2039431 - wth is that? O_o
Godzilla Egg
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State of stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear reactors as of today per Tepco so about 3 x worse.
Reactor No. 1
Overheating has caused a partial meltdown of the reactor core. TEPCO believes some 70 percent of the reactor’s 400 fuel rods have been damaged.
Workers have injected pure water, switching from sea water used last month, into the pressure vessel via a pump, but the cooling system has not been restored yet.
With hydrogen and oxygen likely to have accumulated inside the reactor vessel, workers began pumping inert nitrogen gas early Thursday to prevent a possible hydrogen blast.
Workers had begun pumping out radioactive water from the basement of the adjacent turbine building, but they found more in a trench outside the turbine building, about 56 meters from the ocean.
Reactor No. 2
The reactor is also believed to have suffered a partial meltdown, with about 30 percent of 548 fuel rods likely damaged.
The torus—the reactor’s suppression pool which controls the pressure inside the reactor container—has likely been damaged.
Spent fuel rods in the pool were fully exposed at one stage, but TEPCO has said the rods are now submerged in water and in a stable condition.
A puddle of highly contaminated water was found in the basement of the turbine building and outside in a trench, where a radiation reading of over 1,000 millisieverts per hour was measured.
Workers have injected pure water containing boric acid into the pressure vessel, after dumping sea water as an emergency means.
They found a crack in a seaside concrete pit near this reactor, which was leaking highly radioactive water.
After several failed attempts to seal the crack, using cement, and even newspapers and sawdust, workers stopped the leak on Wednesday morning after injecting sodium silicate, a chemical agent known as “water glass,” to solidify soil near the pit.
Reactor No. 3
A hydrogen explosion badly damaged this reactor’s outer building, and a partial meltdown is also suspected. TEPCO said about 25 percent of the reactor’s 548 fuel rods may be damaged.
Three workers were exposed to high levels of radiation last month when they stepped in contaminated water at the basement of the turbine building. They were found to have suffered no major injury.
Workers had used sea water to cool both the reactor and spent fuel pool, but they have now changed to fresh water.
Reactor No. 4
This reactor was undergoing maintenance when the quake struck. There were no rods in the reactor core.
Fires broke out in the building several days after the quake. The fires were put out with water, which made its way into the spent fuel pool.
Firefighters doused the spent fuel pool using a concrete pumping vehicle, usually used in the construction industry. TEPCO has said the reactor’s spent fuel pool is now submerged in water.
Contaminated water was found in the basement of the turbine building, but workers have yet to remove it.
Reactor Nos. 5 and 6
The two reactors were undergoing maintenance when the quake hit, but their fuel rods were already placed in the cores as they were prepared for operation.
Workers have created three holes in each of the two reactor buildings, aiming to vent hydrogen out and prevent an explosion.
They have restarted the cooling systems of the two reactors and the spent fuel pools, which have remained stable.
Reactor Nos. 5 and 6
The two reactors were undergoing maintenance when the quake hit, but their fuel rods were already placed in the cores as they were prepared for operation.
Workers have created three holes in each of the two reactor buildings, aiming to vent hydrogen out and prevent an explosion.
They have restarted the cooling systems of the two reactors and the spent fuel pools, which have remained stable.
Months or possible years to bury it all.
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Here's a snip from Thursday's quake report....
Sun
SENDAI, Japan – SENDAI, Japan -- A strong aftershock ripped through northeastern Japan, killing two people, knocking out power to vast areas Friday and piling misery on a region still buried under the rubble of last month's devastating tsunami.
The 7.1-magnitude tremor late Thursday was the strongest since northeastern Japan's jumbo 9.0-magnitude quake March 11. The latest shattered windows, kicked items from shelves and collapsed some roofs that weren't already demolished, but generated no tsunami and largely spared the region's nuclear plants. Some slightly radioactive water spilled at one plant, but the tsunami-crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi complex reported no new problems.
Matsuko Ito, who has been living in a shelter in the small northeastern city of Natori since the tsunami, said there's no getting used to the terror of being awoken by shaking. She said she started screaming when the quake struck around 11:30 p.m.
"It's enough," the 64-year-old while smoking a cigarette outside. "Something has changed. The world feels strange now. Even the way the clouds move isn't right."
Many people have lived without water and electricity for nearly a month, and the latest tremor sunk more homes into blackness: About 2.6 million households -- about 40 percent of those supplied in the area -- were dark Friday, said Souta Nozu, a spokesman for Tohoku Electric Power Co., which serves northern Japan.
Six conventional plants in the area were knocked out, though three have since come back online and the others should be up again within hours, Nozu said. But with power lines throughout the area damaged, it was not clear whether normal operations would be restored, he said.
Several nuclear power plants briefly switched to diesel generators but were reconnected to the grid by Friday afternoon. One plant north of Sendai -- which has been closed since the tsunami -- briefly lost the ability to cool its spent fuel pools, but quickly got it back.
At a plant in Onagawa, some radioactive water splashed out of the pools but did not leave a containment building, Tohoku Electric said. Such splash-out is "not unusual, although it is preferable that it doesn't happen," according to Japanese nuclear safety agency official Tomoho Yamada.
"Closer inspection could find more problems," said agency spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama, but no radiation was released into the environment at Onagawa.
The plant began leaking oil into the ocean in the first earthquake, and the flow escaped a containment boom in Thursday's tremor, according to coast guard spokesman Hideaki Takase. By Friday, the leak had been contained again, he said.............
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/07/tsunami-alert-issued-large-quake-strikes-northeastern-japans-coast/?test=latestnews
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They will not make forms to hold the concrete. They will just keep pumping boron laced concrete on top of boron laced concrete in progressively thicker slurry and make a giant mound over the reactors. It will not resemble a building. It will look like a giant blob of concrete. After that is completed and the area decontaminated they may go back and cover that with something that resembles a building.
I don't think they will able to do that as the reactor buildings are so close to the water. In #2 they will use the building as the form and poor 6" to 1' increments. They will have to make some kind of containment for the cement around the others.
(http://media.voanews.com/images/480*300/japan_fukushima_480x300_afp.jpg)
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I don't think they will able to do that as the reactor buildings are so close to the water. In #2 they will use the building as the form and poor 6" to 1' increments. They will have to make some kind of containment for the cement around the others.
(http://media.voanews.com/images/480*300/japan_fukushima_480x300_afp.jpg)
You do not need a form to make a pile of concrete. You just mix it so the slump is minimal. Fairly simple procedure in the construction industry.
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Nuclear exclusion zone to be expanded.
Another aftershock... this one 100 miles N of Tokyo, buildings sway downtown, power briefly cut at Fukushima Dai-ichi complex.
Here is some NHK video from Fukushima.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DU1IrUv3eI&feature=player_embedded#at=27
Regards,
Sun
URGENT: Japan to expand evacuation areas near crippled nuclear plant
TOKYO, April 11, Kyodo
The government will expand evacuation districts near the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, its top spokesman said Monday.
With the crisis at the plant dragging out, some municipalities within a 20- to 30-kilometer radius of the power plant will now be designated as additional evacuation areas, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a news conference.
Residents in the radius are at the moment urged to stay indoors.
==Kyodo
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84586.html
Japan Rattled by Aftershock One Month After Massive Quake, Tsunami
Published April 11, 2011
A strong earthquake rattled Japan's northeast Monday and sparked a fresh tsunami alert one-month after a massive temblor and wave that devastated the northeastern coast and unleashed a still-unfolding nuclear crisis.
The 7.1-magnitude aftershock briefly forced Tokyo's main international airport to close both of its runways. The epicenter was just inland and about 100 miles north of Tokyo. The operator of the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex said the latest quake briefly cut off power to three of the plants reactors.
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that the power supply used to pump cooling water to the reactors has since been restored.
A warning was issued for a three-foot tsunami, the same as for after an aftershock that shook the northeast coast last week. That quake generated no tsunami. Japan's weather agency lifted the tsunami warning a little over an hour after the quake hit.
People at a large electronics store in the northeastern city of Sendai screamed and ran outside, though the shaking made it hard to move around. Mothers grabbed their children, and windows shook. After a minute or two, people returned to the store.
Kyodo News agency reported that buildings were swaying in Tokyo.
There were no new reports of damage. Aftershocks have repeatedly rattled the disaster-weary region, but there is little left in the northeast to ruin. Last Thursday's 7.1-magnitude aftershock, which had been the strongest tremor since the day the original quake hit, did sink hundreds of thousands more households into darkness, however. Most of that electricity has been restored....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/11/japan-rattled-aftershock-quake-anniversary/
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Nuclear exclusion zone to be expanded.
[URGENT: Japan to expand evacuation areas near crippled nuclear plant
TOKYO, April 11, Kyodo
The government will expand evacuation districts near the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, its top spokesman said Monday.
With the crisis at the plant dragging out, some municipalities within a 20- to 30-kilometer radius of the power plant will now be designated as additional evacuation areas, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a news conference.
Residents in the radius are at the moment urged to stay indoors.
==Kyodo
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84586.html
I was thinking about this. The U.S. would have put a 50 mile evac area around the plant in this situation maybe more. If this happened at our local toxic pit there are some very large cities that would have to evac. I can't even imagine the turmoil that would play out. Where would we go? No place fast thats for sure.
Some of large cities/county's include:
Riverside, Long, Newport and Huntington Beaches, Dana Point, San Clemente, Oceanside, Encinitas, LaJolla, Mission, Pacific, and Ocean Beach's, Point loma... the whole coastline from the Palisades to SanDiego. Inland as far as Banning, Pomona, Anza, Ramona the whole I-15 and I-5 southren corridors etc.... were talking millions of people. Most of San Diego county, Most of Riverside County, All of Orange county, and Lower part of LA county, 5-6 military bases.
That's 6-7 million folks maybe more :frown:
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The evacuation areas have changed throughout this episode, as circumstances have dictated it. A simple radius didn't take into account geography and winds of the area, so it's being modified based on monitoring data.
I don't know if it's been reported in the west, but Japan uses maximum thresholds of cumulative radiation exposure and concentrations that are less than half of the standards used in the rest of the world. So when you hear that levels are x times the Japanese standard, in many cases, it would have still not have reached the maximum amount used in the US or Europe.
There is no 50 mile evacuation scenario in US evacuation planning. The only place 50 miles is mentioned is in monitoring. The 50 mile evacuation advisory posted on the US embassy website based on the NRC chairman's comments has been criticized widely by the commission members and technical experts throughout the industry.
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After one month, I just want to say that I'm getting pretty weary of earthquakes. We've had 380 earthquakes of magnitude 5.0 or greater in the last month since the 9.0 quake. Every single day we have quakes. Most are centered less than 50 miles north of me, some less than 20 miles away. I've never experienced anything like this in 20 years here, and it looks like it might continue for another year.
Calling them "aftershocks" makes them seem like they are somehow weaker. They are not. They are real earthquakes, just like any other quake. Let me tell you, 7.0+ quakes centered so close will shake you pretty good. But, we have braces and straps for cabinets, bookcases and big TVs, etc, so things don't break, but it wears you down every day and night, because you never know how big one will be when it starts. You hear it rolling towards you, waking you up a second before the shaking begins.
The Fukushima situation continues to overshadow the real disaster and victims - the 27,000+ who lost their lives, the 100,000+ who lost everything, plus the million+ people who have lost their livelihoods. The hard work of cleaning up isn't The area was a rich agricultural region. Farmers and businesses completely unaffected by contamination are affected by the stigma of fear as some governments have gone so far as to ban all products from Japan.
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Right on, Rolex. These earthquakes are monsters in their own right. I hate "the new normal" being foisted onto us for years now.
We wish you and yours the best.
Regards,
Sun
URGENT: UPDATE1: Japan to raise nuke accident severity level to highest 7 from 5
TOKYO, April 12, Kyodo
Japan has decided to raise the severity level of the accident at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to 7, the highest on an international scale, from the current 5, government sources said Tuesday.
The sources close to the Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency under the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said the Japanese government decided to raise the level to the highest 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale, which has so far only been applied to the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe.
The current provisional evaluation of 5 is at the same level as the Three Mile Island accident in the United States in 1979.
==Kyodo
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84757.html
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Sundowner, as far as evac in the case of an American nuclear accident, each plant has emergency procedures and plans. They have employees who constantly monitor the weather situations, and direct lines to emergency agencies and the like, this is all highly regulated.
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Sundowner, as far as evac in the case of an American nuclear accident, each plant has emergency procedures and plans. They have employees who constantly monitor the weather situations, and direct lines to emergency agencies and the like, this is all highly regulated.
Unless the owners of the plant are similar <liars> and is one of the worst, of the 104 plants, as far as safety here in the US even the employee's are afraid to say when something is wrong. OH ....and there is a new fault they just found 5 miles out a submersion fault Guess the name...... Yes "The San Onofre Fault" :O They do have large sirens in the hillsides. :rolleyes:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/29/eveningnews/main20048512.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/29/eveningnews/main20048512.shtml)
(http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/files/2008/07/san-onofre-air.jpg)
Thats the I-5 in the background behind that is Camp Pendelton.
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You do not need a form to make a pile of concrete. You just mix it so the slump is minimal. Fairly simple procedure in the construction industry.
Well how many reactors have you seen decommissioned?
Basically the same process it takes 10 years or so per reactor. Look at the picture above. To the far left just out of view the remains of #1 at SanOnofre
50ft pile of crete its now a parking lot
All the Billions to make and clean up and a sarcophagus at the end for 25 measly years of cheap power.
One of the first walls
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/workers-build-wall-to-contain-japan-radiation/148762-2.html (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/workers-build-wall-to-contain-japan-radiation/148762-2.html)
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Well how many reactors have you seen decommissioned?
Basically the same process it takes 10 years or so per reactor. Look at the picture above. To the far left just out of view the remains of #1 at SanOnofre
50ft pile of crete its now a parking lot
All the Billions to make and clean up and a sarcophagus at the end for 25 measly years of cheap power.
One of the first walls
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/workers-build-wall-to-contain-japan-radiation/148762-2.html (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/workers-build-wall-to-contain-japan-radiation/148762-2.html)
Yep, we may as well start freaking out about all of our nuclear plants now... In the last 2 decades, technology hasn't changed, regulations haven't changed, and people just don't care because coal and natural gas are SO much safer and far easier to replenish than nuclear... (Sarcasm)
Try to tell the (former) residents of Centrailia, PA that coal is safer than nuclear.
Natrual gas you say? Enterprise Products Mont Belvieu (TX) facility may beg to differ on the safety of those plants.
Wind/solar power... Worthless unless used in a small scale application.
Nuclear is still the most efficient and safest form of power production we have.
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Fukushima plant rattled by another quake, water injection not disrupted
TOKYO, April 12, Kyodo
The crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was rattled by another strong aftershock of the massive March 11 earthquake on Tuesday afternoon, a day after a similar jolt led to the temporary suspension of coolant water injection into the plant's three troubled reactors.
While workers temporarily evacuated, no disruption to the pumps injecting water into the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors or the electrical power source of the six-reactor complex was detected following the 2:07 p.m. quake that had a preliminary magnitude of 6.3, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.....
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84908.html
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Russian "Landysh " vessel may be deployed to Fukushima.
Regards,
Sun
Russia floating nuclear waste plant ready to depart for Japan
08.04.2011, 14.25
VLADIVOSTOK, April 8 (Itar-Tass) - Russia’s floating plant for the processing of radioactive waste - the Landysh - is ready to depart for Japan to work at any moment, the vessel’s captain Vladimir Bobkov told Japanese and Russian journalists on Friday.
Reporters of the Japanese Kyodo and NHK companies on Friday got an opportunity to get familiarised with the work of the unique vessel that is part of the technological process of scrapping nuclear submarines decommissioned from the RF Pacific Fleet at the Bolshoi Kamen town in the Primorsky Territory. The Japanese journalists could see the vessel completely and get acquainted with the crew.
The excursion was organised because of the major interest evoked by the Landysh work after the Japanese government turned to Russia with a request to consider the use of the floating plant at the Fukushima-1 emergency nuclear power plant.
The Landysh floating plant for liquid radioactive waste treatment has for almost 10 years been working at the Zvezda shipyard in Primorsky Territory’s town of Bolshoi Kamen. Over this period it has processed over 5,000 tonnes of liquid radioactive waste (LRW). It was built under the Global Partnership Programme with Japanese budget money and used in the disposal of nuclear submarines decommissioned from the Pacific Fleet.
The floating factory is installed on a non-propelled barge with the displacement of 3,900 tonnes and it can be towed to any desired place. The vessel has a double hull, and its waste treatment unit is installed in a concrete cocoon with 400-mm thick walls, which totally rules out the possibility of hazardous substances’ getting into the water. The Landysh crew consists of 46 members.
The Zvezda shipyard directorate told Itar-Tass that the absence of the Landysh will not affect in any way the technological process of waste recycling. “There are alternatives to such operations,” a shipyard official said.
On Monday, public relations director of Russia’s State Nuclear Corporation (Rosatom) Sergei Novikov said that the Japanese side requested Russia to consider the use of this vessel for operations at Japan’s quake-stricken nuclear power plant. “If the Japanese side is satisfied with the unit’s technical characteristics, it can be moved to the area of the Fukushima-1 NPP in the shortest time possible,” he said......
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=16134586&PageNum=0
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No one expected a 47 foot wave to come ashore.
Regards,
Sun
More Than 100 'Safe' Evacuation Centers Destroyed by Japan Tsunami
TOKYO -- Japan's Nuclear Safety Agency was set Thursday to view safety measures at nuclear plants across the country, as a report revealed that more than 100 designated evacuation centers were destroyed by the March 11 tsunami triggered by a magnitude-9.0 earthquake.
Following the tremor, countless residents sought refuge in evacuation sites designated safe by local government authorities, but were swept to their deaths, Kyodo News reported.
To date, no figures on the number of people who perished at the sites have been tallied.
As the nation continued to deal with the aftermath of the disaster, hundreds of police in protective gear for the first time scoured rubble-strewn neighborhoods near the crippled Fukushima power plant for bodies, AFP reported.
A force of 300 officers was deployed into the no-man's land -- pushing closer towards the plant after they started a wider search on April 3 that covered the outer areas of the 12-mile (20km) exclusion zone.
Police said many bodies were likely still in the area immediately around the complex, and that any remains would have to be thoroughly washed down before they could be taken away for autopsy and then cremation or burial.
The search came as Emperor Akihito made his first trip to a disaster-hit area, visiting evacuees at a shelter in Chiba prefecture.
The emperor made a live television address five days after the twin disasters struck, saying he was praying for the country's safety. It was understood to have been the 77-year-old monarch's first live television address in his 22-year reign.
In Fukushima, the facility's operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) said Wednesday that some nuclear fuel rods in reactor No. 4 at the plant had been damaged, Kyodo reported.
A test on a water sample revealed evidence of radioactive iodine-131, cesium-134 and cesium-137 up to 100,000 times higher than normal. Work at the reactor, one of six, however was continuing.....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/14/100-safe-evacuation-center-destroyed-japan-tsunami/
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The presence of cesium-134 and cesium-137 indicates that fission took place in the fuel rod holding pools.
Sun
Fresh nuke plant woes, as police search for bodies
TOKYO – A new glitch in the cooling of used fuel at Japan's crippled nuclear plant prompted a surge in radiation, but an overall decline in leaks allowed police Thursday to search for missing tsunami victims closer to the complex than ever before.......
.....This week's glitch at the plant involved declining water levels at the pool for spent fuel rods in the Unit 4 reactor building. Water inadvertently sprayed into an overflow tank prompted a false reading that the main pool was full when it wasn't. That prompted workers to suspend the injection of water into the main pool for several days until Wednesday, when spraying resumed.
Strong aftershocks might also have affected the readings, officials said.
The suspension of spraying allowed temperatures and radiation levels to rise, though the rods were still believed to have been covered with water, said Hidehiko Nishiyama of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.
"I believe fuel rods in the pool are largely intact, or still keeping the normal shape of what they should look like," Nishiyama said. "If they were totally messed up, we would have been looking at different sets of numbers from the water sampling."
A new burst of radiation this week leaking in Unit 4's fuel pool suggests damage to the fuel rods and complicates efforts to stabilize them, officials said. TEPCO manager Junichi Matsumoto said analysis of the pool's water detected higher levels of radioactive iodine-131, cesium-134 and cesium-137. Normally, those elements would not be found in the pool.
Three of the plant's reactors also have about 20,000 metric tons of stagnant, radiation-contaminated water and it is proving difficult to reduce the amount spilling from the reactors, Nishiyama said.
Until cooling systems can be fully restored, flooding the reactors with water is the only way to help prevent them from overheating, but those many tons of water, tainted with radioactivity, pose a separate threat.
"It is the problem of being stuck with reactors that constantly need to be fed water," Nishiyama said. Setbacks in preparing tanks to store the contaminated water mean new options may need to be considered, he said. He did not elaborate.
The beleaguered plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., or TEPCO, is seeking ways to eventually remove spent fuel rods from reactor storage pools as the plant is closed down for good. The glitch at Unit 4 makes those plans more urgent.
Eventually the rods must be stored permanently in dry, radiation-proof casks, but that process is far off, he said.
TEPCO, meanwhile, is working to stabilize conditions at the plant's No. 1 reactor by pumping nitrogen into its containment vessel to reduce risks of a hydrogen explosion. It also is installing steel plates and silt screens along the coast to help reduce radiation leaks into the sea....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/13/spent-fuel-rods-add-trouble-japan-nuke-plant/
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Yep, we may as well start freaking out about all of our nuclear plants now... In the last 2 decades, technology hasn't changed, regulations haven't changed, and people just don't care because coal and natural gas are SO much safer and far easier to replenish than nuclear... (Sarcasm)
Try to tell the (former) residents of Centrailia, PA that coal is safer than nuclear.
Natrual gas you say? Enterprise Products Mont Belvieu (TX) facility may beg to differ on the safety of those plants.
Wind/solar power... Worthless unless used in a small scale application.
Nuclear is still the most efficient and safest form of power production we have.
Yeah, but Centrailia is a great place to go 4-wheeling, now :rock
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I'm guessing the future is reactors that have enough damping authority that they don't need cooling once shut down.
It would impact efficiency but it seems that safety is getting a lot more attention as of recent.
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I'm guessing the future is reactors that have enough damping authority that they don't need cooling once shut down.
It would impact efficiency but it seems that safety is getting a lot more attention as of recent.
Exactly.
Self quenching is the way to go..
Failure mode = default to safe mode = off mode.
It's insane to build a fire you cannot put out.
These boiling water reactors were a "rush job" in the 60s that sacrificed safety for cost savings.
Regards,
Sun
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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What the robots saw:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/86170.html
http://www.cio.com.au/article/383517/robots_enter_fukushima_reactor_building_first_time/
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See Rule #14
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Inside Japan's radiation zone
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/04/19/exp.ac.grant.radiation.zone.cnn?iref=allsearch
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See Rule #14
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:(
FUTABA, Japan -- Residents rushed back into the 12-mile (20-kilometer) evacuation zone around Japan's radiation-spewing nuclear power plant Thursday, grabbing whatever belongings they could before an order went into effect legally banning entry to the area.
A stream of evacuees ventured into deserted towns near the plant, some in white protective suits and others in face masks and rain gear they hoped would protect against radiation. Most raced through the zone with car windows closed, their vehicles crammed with clothing and valuables.
"This is our last chance, but we aren't going to stay long. We are just getting what we need and getting out," said Kiyoshi Kitajima, an X-ray technician, who dashed to his hospital in Futaba, a town next-door to the plant, to collect equipment before the order went into effect at midnight.
Officials said the order announced Thursday was meant to limit exposure to radiation leaking from the plant and to prevent thefts. Almost all the zone's nearly 80,000 residents left when the area was evacuated on March 12, but police had not been able to legally block them from going back.
Police had no estimate Thursday of the exact number of people who have returned to the zone or who still might be living there.
Under a special nuclear emergency law, people who enter the zone will now be subject to fines of up to 100,000 yen ($1,200) or possible detention of up to 30 days. Up to now, defiance of the evacuation order was not punishable by law.
The order angered some residents who fled their homes nearly empty-handed when they were told to evacuate after last month's tsunami and earthquake wrecked the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant's power and cooling systems....."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/20/japan-strictly-enforce-evacuation-zone-nuke-plant/
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In other news attached to this the company that I contract for sold 4 (2x 62 meter and 2 x 70 meter reach) concrete pumps to TEPCO and they are beginning to get ready to move these behemoth pumps up to the reactor areas so they can start pumping concrete into the reactor areas for the sarcophagus' like they did at Chernobyl. By the way the same pump company that did that in Soviet Russia is the one that sold the pumps to TEPCO. The trucks are undergoing refit to have lead sheets added to the cabs now so they can be driven and operated on site. 3 of my buddies are in Tokyo right now helping to train operators and helping to refit the trucks. The two 70 meter pumps were flown from the US to Tokyo and the 2nd 62 meter is being flown from Germany to Tokyo right now.
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In other news attached to this the company that I contract for sold 4 (2x 62 meter and 2 x 70 meter reach) concrete pumps to TEPCO and they are beginning to get ready to move these behemoth pumps up to the reactor areas so they can start pumping concrete into the reactor areas for the sarcophagus' like they did at Chernobyl. By the way the same pump company that did that in Soviet Russia is the one that sold the pumps to TEPCO. The trucks are undergoing refit to have lead sheets added to the cabs now so they can be driven and operated on site. 3 of my buddies are in Tokyo right now helping to train operators and helping to refit the trucks. The two 70 meter pumps were flown from the US to Tokyo and the 2nd 62 meter is being flown from Germany to Tokyo right now.
Keep us updated if you can.
And, Sundowner, if all you're going to do is copy and paste a Fox News Story attached with a short anti-nuclear jab, please refrain from posting in this thread, start an anti-nuclear thread if that's your agenda.
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Fukushima I Plant Retired, TEPCO Exec. to Step Down Due to Negligence
"TEPCO President vows to step down for endangering public by failing to waterproof plant's backup generators
Fukushima I's reactor 1 had been operation since 1970. Prior to the disaster it was scheduled to be decommissioned in April. Reactors 2-4, built in the 1970s were expected to soon follow."
#1 was supposed to be decommissioned in April? I'm sure they would gone for an extension just like all the plants here.
http://www.dailytech.com/Fukushima+I+Plant+Retired+TEPCO+Exec+to+Step+Down+Due+to+Negligence/article21449.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Fukushima+I+Plant+Retired+TEPCO+Exec+to+Step+Down+Due+to+Negligence/article21449.htm)
"Most plants have hardly any coverage. Nuke insurance said too costly."
"From the U.S. to Japan, it's illegal to drive a car without sufficient insurance, yet governments have chosen to run the world's 443 nuclear power plants with hardly any insurance coverage whatsoever. The Fukushima No. 1 nuclear disaster, which will leave taxpayers with a massive bill, highlights one of the industry's key weaknesses — that nuclear power is a viable source for cheap energy only if plants go uninsured. The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., had no disaster insurance"
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423a2.html (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423a2.html)
The US underwrites the insurance for its nuclear power plants as all other countries do. That insurance is paid by the taxpayer if theres an accident. The taxpayer also pays to build them.
So much for cheap energy
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Fukushima I Plant Retired, TEPCO Exec. to Step Down Due to Negligence
"TEPCO President vows to step down for endangering public by failing to waterproof plant's backup generators
Fukushima I's reactor 1 had been operation since 1970. Prior to the disaster it was scheduled to be decommissioned in April. Reactors 2-4, built in the 1970s were expected to soon follow."
#1 was supposed to be decommissioned in April? I'm sure they would gone for an extension just like all the plants here.
http://www.dailytech.com/Fukushima+I+Plant+Retired+TEPCO+Exec+to+Step+Down+Due+to+Negligence/article21449.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Fukushima+I+Plant+Retired+TEPCO+Exec+to+Step+Down+Due+to+Negligence/article21449.htm)
"Most plants have hardly any coverage. Nuke insurance said too costly."
"From the U.S. to Japan, it's illegal to drive a car without sufficient insurance, yet governments have chosen to run the world's 443 nuclear power plants with hardly any insurance coverage whatsoever. The Fukushima No. 1 nuclear disaster, which will leave taxpayers with a massive bill, highlights one of the industry's key weaknesses — that nuclear power is a viable source for cheap energy only if plants go uninsured. The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., had no disaster insurance"
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423a2.html (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110423a2.html)
The US underwrites the insurance for its nuclear power plants as all other countries do. That insurance is paid by the taxpayer if theres an accident. The taxpayer also pays to build them.
So much for cheap energy
Governments understand that insurances are just a big scam. They're built to make profit so the taxpayers would by default end up paying more in the end. For a private person insurance can be like a lottery - if you happen to need it you may even end up winning some. Most insurance customers just lose their money and each time the company has to actually pay out something, everyone gets to pay higher rates after it.
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Governments understand that insurances are just a big scam. They're built to make profit so the taxpayers would by default end up paying more in the end. For a private person insurance can be like a lottery - if you happen to need it you may even end up winning some. Most insurance customers just lose their money and each time the company has to actually pay out something, everyone gets to pay higher rates after it.
No .....there is no insurance company that will insure them.
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Cool if it works as advertised
"Chemist: I Can Clean Fukushima Water Faster"
A Japanese chemist claims he has developed a powder substance in less than a month that he says could decontaminate the toxic water 20 times faster than the French method, thereby significantly accelerating progress toward the ultimate goal of cold shutdown.
In Mr. Ohta’s version, once the radioactive material is captured it then precipitates, drawing the irradiated parts out from the water, which then fall into a murky pile at the bottom of a container leaving the rest of the liquid clear much like an undisturbed snow globe. In experiments, scientists added 15 milligrams of powder to 100 milliliters of water steeped in non-radioactive cesium that had been dissolved at a density of 1-10 parts per million. (The densities of radioactive substances at Fukushima Daiichi are estimated at about 10 ppm; Mr. Ohta said the powder can handle densities as high as 100 ppm.) The purification process was completed 10 minutes later, according to Mr. Ohta, adding that the process would not take much longer than 10 minutes even if treating thousands of tons of water at a time.
“Almost 100% of radioactivity will be removed (from the water),” said Mr. Ohta.
Mr. Ohta said the substance could be used to help cleanup efforts at Fukushima Daiichi immediately as soon as several water treatment facilities are built like the unit being erected by Areva. Researchers did not use radioactive substances in the experiment, but Mr. Ohta said he’s confident the powder would produce the same results regardless because the chemical properties are the same."
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/04/21/chemist-i-can-clean-fukushima-water-faster/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/04/21/chemist-i-can-clean-fukushima-water-faster/)
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In other news attached to this the company that I contract for sold 4 (2x 62 meter and 2 x 70 meter reach) concrete pumps to TEPCO and they are beginning to get ready to move these behemoth pumps up to the reactor areas so they can start pumping concrete into the reactor areas for the sarcophagus' like they did at Chernobyl. By the way the same pump company that did that in Soviet Russia is the one that sold the pumps to TEPCO. The trucks are undergoing refit to have lead sheets added to the cabs now so they can be driven and operated on site. 3 of my buddies are in Tokyo right now helping to train operators and helping to refit the trucks. The two 70 meter pumps were flown from the US to Tokyo and the 2nd 62 meter is being flown from Germany to Tokyo right now.
I remember that was in the news here in LA earlier this week or just the end of last week, when they had some highway closures/impacts due to transporting the huge things through town, but I thought they got shipped out of the port, not an aircraft (otherwise why would they of had to of driven them from their origin rather than start its airborne journey closer to it).