Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DrJackyI on November 16, 2011, 09:25:00 AM
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This is my first post and I hate to do it because since FA I have tried to stay away from these things.
Unfortunately though i must speak !!!!
Joach1m says that he is leaving the game because of gameplay. well after this morning when vDallas intentionally discoes himself for the second time that I encounter him in bombers, I totally understand where Joach1m is comming from.
Its ppl like Dallas and others that bomb then bail from flyable aircraft just so they can get back to base and roll instead of taking the time and risk to rtb normally, or get upset because a certain player is shooting them down and they dont want that player to record kills on them that HAVE and ARE ruining game play!!!!
Its just a game ppl, Play it the way that the designers intend, and stop the childish nonsense of trying to manipulate things to suit ur ego's.
~DS~ all
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.s vdallas
once again shot down in the main arena.
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This is my first post and I hate to do it because since FA I have tried to stay away from these things.
Unfortunately though i must speak !!!!
Joach1m says that he is leaving the game because of gameplay. well after this morning when vDallas intentionally discoes himself for the second time that I encounter him in bombers, I totally understand where Joach1m is comming from.
Its ppl like Dallas and others that bomb then bail from flyable aircraft just so they can get back to base and roll instead of taking the time and risk to rtb normally, or get upset because a certain player is shooting them down and they dont want that player to record kills on them that HAVE and ARE ruining game play!!!!
Its just a game ppl, Play it the way that the designers intend, and stop the childish nonsense of trying to manipulate things to suit ur ego's.
~DS~ all
What I never understood was why not stay in the fight? Even worse is when someone gives a fight and as soon as they think they loose the advantage they take off running for a buddy
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How you know it was dallas? You got the kill? Then? one less "real intelligent guy and a great sportsman" in the air.
Giant ack-hugg fest anyone? From 14K straight to your flaker if you cant ho me down?
jump into my 1v1, come straight for the pick from 6k+, even tho i asked 2 times "DO NOT PICK HIM PLZZZ", anyone?
3 spixes vs deck 109 ho-ackrun fest anyone? so much fun isnt it...
chicken watermelon fest ( ho run ho run ) anyone? then brag about how skill-less i am? seriuosly gtfo
the über-timid ones use to piss me off too. Yea im burning out.
Another weird thing: a couple days ago the knits got 187, what was the end of the spawn fight at 135. The Jokers were braggin about it, and hell, they were right. Whas nonsense, they did exactly the same thing on the next day...
I guess this thread or my post will be deleted. But its the truth.
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I agree there is a lot of weak game play out there, and I sometimes get frustrated with it as well. The oldest story is still the most annoying for me, the P51s who won't fight :)
But I recognise that it's never going to change so I just try to get used to it and deal with it.
Someone bailing from bombers is lame, and you can laugh at them for caring about their score so much. But they're not hurting you. Just let them play their boring way and try and find some real action somewhere else.
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How you know it was dallas? You got the kill? Then? one less "real intelligent guy and a great sportsman" in the air.
Giant ack-hugg fest anyone? From 14K straight to your flaker if you cant ho me down?
jump into my 1v1, come straight for the pick from 6k+, even tho i asked 2 times "DO NOT PICK HIM PLZZZ", anyone?
3 spixes vs deck 109 ho-ackrun fest anyone? so much fun isnt it...
the über-timid ones use to piss me off too. Yea im burning out.
Another weird thing: a couple days ago the knits got 187, what was the end of the spawn fight at 135. The Jokers were braggin about it, and hell, they were right. Whas nonsense, they did exactly the same thing on the next day...
I guess this thread or my post will be deleted. But its the truth.
What he said.
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Anyone wonder what HTC would be like if there were no score or ranking involved, and we didnt know who we just shot down or got shot down by?
Aces High would be a whole different game, and one for the better, imo.
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Bailing from bombers is weak...
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Someone bailing from bombers is lame, and you can laugh at them for caring about their score so much.
This sentence makes no sense to me... :headscratch:
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Anyone wonder what HTC would be like if there were no score or ranking involved, and we didnt know who we just shot down or got shot down by?
Aces High would be a whole different game, and one for the better, imo.
I don't think it would matter. For example, doesn't Bomb and Bail still count as a death? All he's doing is denying the guy the opportunity to get the kill. The truly sad thing is the "thought" process probably goes something along the lines of, 'My bomber is dead since I have been seen by an enemy aircraft. I may as well bail to get back to tower quicker so I can up again faster.'
Most dweebery rolls off my back, but bomb and bail, or jabocide for some reason is a real pet peeve and makes me so mad I could spit nails.
It is the way of online gaming. Until they perfect the 'reach through the monitor and smack him' technology, this is what we're stuck with.
Wiley.
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Is this a lame idea or what?
Boelke had his famous dictum. What if we create a code of ethics to fly Aces High? What we need to create is a more professional, mature culture and environment. The noobs learn from the community and the community seems run by 2-weekers on steroids. If we fly by a known set of ethics, in time that will rub off to others. A rough draft would include such items as:
1. Vulching is only acceptable when there is an effort to take a base. Vulch for the sake of kills is weak.
2. Avoid ho'ing, honor in demonstrating the skills necessary to make a kill, not blind-Vegas-pull-the-trigger-luck.
3. Allowing a damaged plane to ditch is very honorable. How many stories do we read of WW2 pilots flying next to damaged enemy planes, saluting them and turning for home. Think of the challenge of landing on half a wing.
4. Check 6 is a rule of thumb, not an accident.
5. Before one jumps into a 1 v 1, or 2 v 2 ask your buddies if they need help. No need ruining a fight without asking if they need help.
6. Running from a horde is acceptable. Running to drag out a bird or two for a 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 is great. Running away from a fight??? On the flip side, if you are in a horde how many should chase and jump one plane? What is appropriate when the horde is attempting to take a base?
7. Ack hugging happens, when is it appropriate, when is it cowardice?
8. What is missed?
Boo
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Anyone wonder what HTC would be like if there were no score or ranking involved, and we didnt know who we just shot down or got shot down by?
Aces High would be a whole different game, and one for the better, imo.
Not sure how much difference it would be if rank would be removed, some care about score so much the only they they do is bomb from 35k and vulch airfields.
Some pay $15 just for padding their rank (i.e vulching a field and fly home in the only fighter run they made that day)
I honestly would like to believe some people will learn to "ignore" the rank after they realize it can be easily manipulated in a sense some people actually
spend hours manipulating their score so its better (shade accounts anyone?).
Rank absolutely needs to be ignored, yes I'm preaching to the choir because I still read every day "what can I do to lower my rank", when it means absolutely nothing, it does not even define kill.
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This sentence makes no sense to me... :headscratch:
:headscratch: The OP posited that Dallas bailed from his bombers to protect his score or something. Isn't that right? I don't understand (or care about) the ins and outs of how score is calculated, but I imagine that is the rationale behind bailing from bombers...
So my point was...so they bail to protect their score...it doesn't hurt you...laugh at them for being lame and move on.
:salute
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:headscratch: The OP posited that Dallas bailed from his bombers to protect his score or something.
And this is the point that doesn't make sense. Bailing doesn't protect the score. In fact, Bomb'n'Bailers are probably the players least interested in score at all.
A bomber pilot who cares about his score will try to get home alive no matter what.
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Ah my lack of knowledge of the score system is letting me down :)
I guess my point still stands though...
Bomb and bailing doesn't hurt you....pity them for their sad behaviour and move on :aok
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That's a very limited scope of gameplay if you follow those "rules" -- and not as historically accurate as you'd think.
To the OP:
Frankly, I think if you have a little self respect that's going to influence how you fly more than the other guy's actions.
Sure, bomb n bail is idiotic and needs some sort of fix by HTC, but it's not such an easy thing to fix/control.
Don't cite Joachim leaving the game as a sign of bad gameplay. He's throwing a tantrum and going home (proverbially speaking) and he's not the first and won't be the last. It's a running joke on these forums to post a quit thread citing gameplay going down the toilet. Most times the person that did it doesn't really quit, and just looks bad when he sneaks back in (sometimes under a different name to save face).
That's why folks say "See you soon!" to threads like his. The very astute analysis in his quit thread suggests it's his own fault and he admits he's just frustrated he's flying into bad situations. As soon as he calms down he'll see it in a better light.
That doesn't indicate AH gameplay is going down the tubes, in any way.
So to the OP, yes there is some lameness. No, it is not epidemic. No it is not ruining the gameplay. There is far more fun to be had than the few rotten apple examples. Those examples are the exception to the rule. Try to think of all the FUN times you had vs all the times somebody bombs and bails. Consider vdallas is one guy. Consider the hundreds or thousands of guys you've had fun shooting down or flying with.
It puts things in a bit more tempered perspective, no?
The good play outweighs the bad, it's just that the bad examples get more press, so they seem more imposing than they really are.
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Bombing and bailing is lame. I agree why not at least try to fight.
However, if it is a game and no big deal then you should not get spitting mad because someone wont at least try either.
There will always be kids doing what you described. No reason to let it bother you.
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another thread about how lame vDALLAS is :aok :rolleyes:
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Is this a lame idea or what?
Boelke had his famous dictum. What if we create a code of ethics to fly Aces High? What we need to create is a more professional, mature culture and environment. The noobs learn from the community and the community seems run by 2-weekers on steroids. If we fly by a known set of ethics, in time that will rub off to others. A rough draft would include such items as:
1. Vulching is only acceptable when there is an effort to take a base. Vulch for the sake of kills is weak.
2. Avoid ho'ing, honor in demonstrating the skills necessary to make a kill, not blind-Vegas-pull-the-trigger-luck.
3. Allowing a damaged plane to ditch is very honorable. How many stories do we read of WW2 pilots flying next to damaged enemy planes, saluting them and turning for home. Think of the challenge of landing on half a wing.
4. Check 6 is a rule of thumb, not an accident.
5. Before one jumps into a 1 v 1, or 2 v 2 ask your buddies if they need help. No need ruining a fight without asking if they need help.
6. Running from a horde is acceptable. Running to drag out a bird or two for a 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 is great. Running away from a fight??? On the flip side, if you are in a horde how many should chase and jump one plane? What is appropriate when the horde is attempting to take a base?
7. Ack hugging happens, when is it appropriate, when is it cowardice?
8. What is missed?
Boo
Wouldn't stick. People are going to fly how they're going to fly regardless of what a (small) group of players decide to adhere to.
Unless the list is preceded by, 'Don't expect this of anybody, but this is generally what a 'cool' player will do.'
1) Being vulched is your own fault for upping under a crowd.
2) HOing is wrong, it's tactically weak 90% of the time. If the odds against someone are 2:1 or greater, it becomes more tactically viable as if you present the outnumbered guy any kind of shot, he's smart to take it for a chance at reducing the odds quickly.
3) A damaged plane can still fight. If the enemy is still capable of controlled flight, they are still a threat and need to be treated as such. Shoot them til they are falling or exploded.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed. If he waves you off and a high plane comes in to bounce him, check six him, but it is not your problem. He waved you off.
6) Combat in the main arena is side based. If you find yourself in the middle of a group of enemy planes, it is your fault. If you are in the horde, a couple of you should go after the lone con ideally. If he's giving the couple trouble, someone with position should put the bandit down if more bandits are inbound.
7) Who cares? If someone has an advantage it's reasonable to take it.
8) The main arena is side vs side combat. You should expect all enemy vehicles to attack you if they are able. You should not expect to be able to dive under a crowd of enemy planes and have them ignore you because you are headed for a specific bandit and want to 1v1 him.
9) You should not ever expect to be able to cross an enemy's firing path without him firing. Stay out of his guns, he won't be able to shoot you.
10) No whining.
Wiley.
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I do love hunting buffs. I do have a few bail from time to time and my response, outloud, but just to myself is always, "oh geez". Well maybe my squaddies here it on vox, but gettin mad about it does not help.
I wish 999000 would bail when he sees me.
But wait, he didn't get that good by not trying.
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If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.
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If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.
Trees upset me, they come out of no where when your on the deck having a fight. :ahand
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And this is the point that doesn't make sense. Bailing doesn't protect the score. In fact, Bomb'n'Bailers are probably the players least interested in score at all.
A bomber pilot who cares about his score will try to get home alive no matter what.
On the contrary, some of the abusers are so set on minimizing or maximizing their own or opposing players scores that they will do anything to effect it, and certain guys who do in fact care about their score think bailing/disco'ing from an aircraft is better for them and worse for the opposing player.
They are the same guys who park on pavement while in a gv and tower out at the first sound of a bomb falling and let the base be captured, etc because they dont want to get a notch against them or give a mark to an opposing player.
They are the same bananas that shoot all their 30 cals, rear guns on 110, A20's, etc to give them "the edge".
It is *that* crowd that irks and annoys a lot of people.
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Just to clarify:
For someone flying a bomber, bailing is never helping the score at all. It's three guaranteed ""deaths" for score purposes, and thus hits your damage/sortie rating. If you fly for score in a buff, you will try to do everything not to get caught in the first place. If this is not possible (or simply didn't work as expected) and you are about to get attacked, it's always better to fight. You can't make it worse, but you may actually survive the attack and get home. Fighting us a chance. Bailing is not.
Everyone flying for score (less people than commonly assumed) or flying with an eye towards score (more common) does figure that out quickly.
Bomb'n'Bail happens mainly for three reasons:
- Real life interference. "Honey, dinner is ready!"
- Miserliness. "I don't care about anything, but NO way anybody gets a kill on me." or "Ha, now he will be upset about having spend 20 minutes climbing up to me, lolz!"
- "War efficiency". Bailing saves you the time of getting home. More bombs on target in shorter time. The staple of landgrab squads, and the most common reason.
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- "War efficiency". Bailing saves you the time of getting home. More bombs on target in shorter time. The staple of landgrab squads, and the most common reason.
this is true and needs to be addressed, DALLAS probably rolled an M3 the second after he bailed
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This just shows that the game strategy needs to change with the times. A high percentage of players are more interested in games with goals and strategy. Flying around in a WW2 plane and shooting at other people isn't enough anymore to keep most people interested. Maybe it was enough for a higher percentage of players 10 years ago. If the only transparent strategic goal in aces high is to capture bases and win the war, then there is absolutely no incentive to ever return to base. This is why you see guys bomb and bail, suicide strafe acks and towers, ignore fighters, avoid combat, etc. Path to least resistance is not a bad thing, it's just human nature and you will never be able to change that. You have to mold the game to work around it, which imo, is where Aces High falls flat.
What's that saying go? "Don't hate the player, hate the game".
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this is true and needs to be addressed
Well, I don't know if it needs to... but nobody has yet come up with a working solution that's not been more "gamey" than the perceived problem.
A few years ago we even had a thread by HT on this topic. I'll see if I can dig it up later.
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Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...
Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.
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Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...
Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.
I) That doesn't hurt too many of "them", cause you don't need perks for that style of game play anyway. All the common and useful buffs are perk free.
II) Instead of bailing from a perfectly fine bomber, a bomb'n'bailer will just point nose down. The effect is just the same, takes just a few seconds more.
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Possible solution to "bomb & bail" players...don't know how easy it would be to code...
Any buff, intentionally bailed from (after bomb drop) = minus 25 bomb perks per plane.
Ok. What if they auger? What if they fly intentionally through ack until they're killed? How will it be able to tell that from a legitimate ack kill?
Bomb and bailers that do it for efficiency are impossible to stop, IMO. Not being able to up with ords for say, 5 or 10 minutes after being shot down/dying/discoing if heavy would slow it down, but be wildly unpopular and unfairly penalize people who were legitimately shot down/crashed/discoed.
Wiley.
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If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.
[/thread]
I had an individual in mw last night who got really peeved and called me everything he could almost spell.
Seems I upped at a blinking base to find what it was and he was way up overhead in lancs. I proceeded to climb up to him... intercepting at about 27k. I was almost out of fuel by that time and way off from home. I ended up just killing 2. One thing I was called was a XXX XXX Dweeb for climbing that high to kill buffs. :rofl
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I realized this a long time ago, I try to lead by example; sometimes ill end up on the other side of the equation and that is my fault. We must understand that if you keep doing something gamey or wrong, it eventually be accepted as the norm. :joystick:
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simple... you bail from any plane you stay in your Chute till #1 you float down to the ground or #2 you get killed in your Chute as your floating down from 20k plus, why get a reward for bailing by going right to the tower and out of harms way. its lame, just like a whole mission 25+ planes bailing because their goons got killed ( not going to mention that squad but most know who did that lol )
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its not about bomb n bailing
its about st00pid lamers ruining everyone elses fun.
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simple... you bail from any plane you stay in your Chute till #1 you float down to the ground or #2 you get killed in your Chute as your floating down from 20k plus, why get a reward for bailing by going right to the tower and out of harms way. its lame, just like a whole mission 25+ planes bailing because their goons got killed ( not going to mention that squad but most know who did that lol )
...again, don't bail, auger. Problem solved.
There is no effective solution that doesn't unfairly punish people who are trying to play 'right'.
its not about bomb n bailing
its about st00pid lamers ruining everyone elses fun.
Yup. You can't code out human nature.
Wiley.
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The fundamental problem is that the game fails to associate risk with reward.
When people achieve the 'reward' without taking the risk is when most of us call their behavior 'lame'. In the past (~2ish years ago, and this maybe with rose colored glasses), the community attempted to keep itself inline by bashing them on 200 for their behavior as others would chime in. Those days are gone for the most part as people now people tend to support poor sportsmanship. This has caused the precipitous departure of long time players as well, just read 'Jo1chims' post as his post/feelings are not unique.
Some simple changes could reduce the incentive to engage in 'lame' behavior...
1) eliminate the "name in lights" message
2) eliminate individual score.
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Some simple changes could reduce the incentive to engage in 'lame' behavior...
1) eliminate the "name in lights" message
2) eliminate individual score.
Wouldn't this exacerbate the bomb and bail/suicide attack problem? There would be even less incentive to return to base.
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I don't think the scoring system is the problem ardy.
People just want the easiest/quickest path to self gratification. Getting your kills in any which way you can. These people don't care about HO, ramming you, they just want to get a kill. Rather than take the time to put together some sort of arsenal of ACM skill sets, it is much easier to just up the Spit 16 and crutch your way through.
Nothing can be done about this unless they seek a path of enlightenment and try to improve through strength of character.
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Wouldn't this exacerbate the bomb and bail/suicide attack problem? There would be even less incentive to return to base.
I don't think it would have an effect on the bomb/bail strategy, as the incentive structure we have today doesn't stop them either.
EDIT: realize spell checker misshap
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"Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense"
I prefer to fight it out if attacked. I prefer to land what I took into the air because I kinda RP the whole thing a bit.
Who cares if I am in a G4M1 and under attack by a P-47? I might be able to do it! (I didn't, but he got to go home with oil all over his airplane.)
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Nothing can be done about this unless they seek a path of enlightenment and try to improve through strength of character.
You sound like Midway.... Wait What!? :O
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
the ressource would reload for each player over time, and low eny equipment would hurt your ressource bar way more. With some tuning it could prevent a player to up 3 heacy lancasters and have troops in the same 30mins, allowing all kinds of strategies.
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
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You sound like Midway.... Wait What!? :O
bruv didn't say play 300 hours in a tour....
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
the ressource would reload for each player over time, and low eny equipment would hurt your ressource bar way more. With some tuning it could prevent a player to up 3 heacy lancasters and have troops in the same 30mins, allowing all kinds of strategies.
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
It's certainly a start in the right direction.
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
the ressource would reload for each player over time, and low eny equipment would hurt your ressource bar way more. With some tuning it could prevent a player to up 3 heacy lancasters and have troops in the same 30mins, allowing all kinds of strategies.
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
this could also result in people taking less risk in their behavior, encouraging the 'hide in a larger horde' mentality.
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bruv didn't say play 300 hours in a tour....
10 hours a day is a bit much. There'd be no time for afternoon Tea and Cake...
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I don't think it would have an effect on the bomb/bail strategy, as the intensive structure we have today doesn't stop them either.
Maybe they don't stop them entirely (no "solution" will ever do that), but to a large degree? ;)
You can't have the prefect setup of game mechanisms in the MA, because no "perfect" or "right" way of playing the game exists. Changing key settings to improve a single aspect, no matter how valid in itself, could wreak havoc on the general balance between many different styles, reasons for playing, player types. Many proposals for improving the game (not limited to this topic, but it's a good example) end up with a "aim for one, but hurt 'em all" situation.
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
the ressource would reload for each player over time, and low eny equipment would hurt your ressource bar way more. With some tuning it could prevent a player to up 3 heacy lancasters and have troops in the same 30mins, allowing all kinds of strategies.
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
Works fine for a clearly defined and structured scenario.. for the MA, this is horrible.
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For someone flying a bomber, bailing is never helping the score at all. It's three guaranteed ""deaths" for score purposes, and thus hits your damage/sortie rating. If you fly for score in a buff, you will try to do everything not to get caught in the first place. If this is not possible (or simply didn't work as expected) and you are about to get attacked, it's always better to fight. You can't make it worse, but you may actually survive the attack and get home. Fighting us a chance. Bailing is not.
I'm perpelexed (I know, I know, what else is new?). I find this in the AH Help section:
Death Multipliers
Landed 1.0
Discoed .25
Bailed .5
Ditched .75
Captured .4
Killed .25
Crashed .25
http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Aces-High-Features/aces-high-help-scoring.html
So I glean from this that you get one point if you return to base, one-half a point if you bail, and one-quarter of a point if you die. If you're piloting a bomber and assess your chances of returning to base are poor, would you not maximize your score by bailing rather than getting shot down?
- oldman (this has been why I always shoot parachutes, I hate score-mongers)
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So I glean from this that you get one point if you return to base, one-half a point if you bail, and one-quarter of a point if you die. If you're piloting a bomber and assess your chances of returning to base are poor, would you not maximize your score by bailing rather than getting shot down?
But a bail is still a death for damage/death purposes, a very important stat for bombers. And each death (including bails) thus has an impact on all damage points accumulated so far. For example, if you have no deaths so far, just a single one will halve your D/S.
So the potential gain in damage score for this single sortie for a triple bail is usually more than offset by the reduction in this player's global D/S
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But a bail is still a death for damage/death purposes, a very important stat for bombers.
Humor me, I'm not good at score things, but it appears that damage/death is just one of five base categories which together make up bomber score...yes?
- oldman
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
I waste dozens upon dozens of 51s every time I play. To limit the use of them is unacceptable for me. :mad: I for one will not rtb until bingo ammo, out of gas or dead. If I were limited to ...lets say four 51s a day, this would only make me run like all the others.
I personally like to try things in that plane that folks tell me it's not meant to do. Call me stupid and lame but ya won't call me scared. :D
Oh and vDallas? well he's the king of Lame and always will be. I just consider the source and move on.
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I waste dozens upon dozens of 51s every time I play. To limit the use of them is unacceptable for me. :mad: I for one will not rtb until bingo ammo, out of gas or dead. If I were limited to ...lets say four 51s a day, this would only make me run like all the others.
I personally like to try things in that plane that folks tell me it's not meant to do. Call me stupid and lame but ya won't call me scared. :D
LOL I understand the problem. My profits from Cyber Lockheed P38G production would drop tremendously if I was limited to a certain amount a day :)
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Humor me, I'm not good at score things, but it appears that damage/death is just one of five base categories which together make up bomber score...yes?
- oldman
Yes, but...
1) As I pointed out, the advantageous point bonus of a bail benefits only this single sortie, whereas the associated death (a bail is a death) hurts ALL sorties. That's why fighting it out and possibly survivng is much better than bailing.
and
2) some categories can have a bigger impact, often due to the difficulty associated with them.
One example would be K/D and K/H in fighter mode. Often players try very hard for a high K/D, which isn't that hard to achieve and (more importantly) to maintain over many sorties by flying very "timid". But ignored by many (as you can see in the frequent arguments on the BBS, to an extent that K/D is generally equated with score itself) is K/H
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1) As I pointed out, the advantageous point bonus of a bail benefits only this single sortie, whereas the associated death (a bail is a death) hurts ALL sorties. That's why fighting it out and possibly survivng is much better than bailing.
Thanks. I suspect, though, that many people have not thought this out well enough, so that they believe they are maximizing their points by bailing instead of dying.
I'm still going to shoot bailers for that reason.
- oldman
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guess what?
when i dont get anything else. anything!! but ho, run, gang, ack hugg, stik stir, then big mouths, any friggen thing else... not even once!! an infamous La vulcher calling someone a spitdweeb... or the original ho calling someone a hoer... all chicken crap, worthless scum... if amazingly shukks. i gave up any hope now
its worthless to play this damned game. nuf said once the glass is getting full, and its that time.
all hail the lamers
btw Wiley, they wont ho, wont run, stick stir, ack hugg then? Will i get any good fight then?? : (
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guess what?
when i dont get anything else. anything!! but ho, run, gang, ack hugg, stik stir, then big mouths, any friggen thing else... not even once!! an infamous La vulcher calling someone a spitdweeb... or the original ho calling someone a hoer... all chicken crap, worthless scum... if amazingly shukks. i gave up any hope now
its worthless to play this damned game. nuf said once the glass is getting full, and its that time.
all hail the lamers
I can't help but notice a good chunk of your comments above refer to people beating their gums about stuff. Suggestion? Detune 200. Gaming experience will improve significantly.
Wiley.
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Thanks. I suspect, though, that many people have not thought this out well enough, so that they believe they are maximizing their points by bailing instead of dying.
I can speak only from my own experience, but the majority of BnBs I encountered were what one would call "landgrabbers" - drop town, bail, get m3... or "miss CV, bail, bring another set of Lancs" - The kind of guys doing it for war efficiency.
You can also track arena scores and stats...
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maybe some kind of limiter that prevent people from wasting the country ressources?
the ressource would reload for each player over time, and low eny equipment would hurt your ressource bar way more. With some tuning it could prevent a player to up 3 heacy lancasters and have troops in the same 30mins, allowing all kinds of strategies.
high eny rides would be free. Noobs wouls get a larger bar for a couple months so they can waste a few P51's a day....I like my idea :aok
I think some kind of reward/penalty system should be used.
If you RTB your equipment, no penalty, if you get shot down, no penalty, but if you bail undamaged, you wait 15 minutes before you can up that type of vehicle again. You let a plane ditch, you still get the kill and points, he gets no penalty.
The game is turning into a watered down version of "Risk". Creating structure and forcing players to fight may piss off some of the players, but all your not stopping them from doing the things they want to do, they just have to go about it a different way.
Games need structure, games need rules. Once that structure is put in place, and everyone knows the rules, THEN people can decide if they want to continue to play the game, what ever the game is then.
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I miss the vDALLAS PMs
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btw Wiley, they wont ho, wont run, stick stir, ack hugg then? Will i get any good fight then?? : (
They still will, but at least you don't have to listen to them bleat it.
Wiley.
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Lets just put it this way. To change Aces High to match what you deem as fair play would require everyone to be mature and think the same as you do. Forget it. It is a pipe dream. Human nature and individuals will never allow it to happen. It is like trying for world peace. Idealistic but unrealistic. Everyone is different and has their own ideas. Youthful exuberance and rebellion. Take a close look at the world before you write about life being fair and everyone working for world peace or fair game play. Kind of like waiting for the Return of Christ. When it happens it will be to late.
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2) some categories can have a bigger impact, often due to the difficulty associated with them.
I don't think it's the difficulty per se (although that does factor in), it's that some categories and scores tend to have most players bunched more tightly into a group than others. It depends partly on where you are in the category. Going from 0 gooney base captures to 1 will have a much more dramatic effect on your score than going from 9 to 10. Same with going from a vehicle bombing % (rockets) of 0 to .1.
But you're right, bomb-and-bail has nothing to do with score or name-in-lights.
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to the question of a kill
yes I dove killed one of his drones then as I was looping over for second pass pooooooooooooof
he does a David Copperfield
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This problem has been in the game for a really long time. I never did understand why people would run from a fight. What is the purpose of flying if you aren't going to fight? :frown:
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I would l;ike to clarify that I am not just complaining about bomb and bailers,
basically, my beef is with players who intentionally TRY to manipulate things to suit THEIR needs instead of playing the game the way the DESIGNERS intented it to be played.
bomb and bail
intentional plug pullin
5 on 1 and the 5 HO
etc
etc
etc
we could all make a list of things that for all intents and purposes ruin the game play.
but certain pilots who continuously and repeatedly do "shady" things, those are the ones that EVERYONE should gang up on.
Back when i first started playing the game Dallas and I had a run in and I killed him in his own HO game. then low and behold I hear him in my comms telling me that he is (how u say) sicking his whole squad after me. lol wow im skeeeeeeerd.....lol
The point is is that what if I was a 12 year old kid and my mother or father overheard him say that.
ppl talk about this being a "family" game but yet low self esteemed ppl like Dallas do things like that.
GUESS WHAT AH
u will be out of business in 5 years or less as long as u let idiots do things like that
lol hell I predicted the time frame that FA (Fighter Ace) would go under becuase of similar things and damn near hit the date on the bullseye.
Lets see if the powers that be learn from others mistakes!
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.s vdallas
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Mine would have to be Lt/Hoss and his squad names :lol
I believe his current squad name is "Neener...Neener...Neener"
Before that it was "Iraqvet is my Depends"
Before that it was "Makes Butchergirl tower out a lot"
Seeing him type in all caps on 200 after I kill him
His rants on the local channel when he gets killed....and can't understand why nobody will give him a check6 when he switches sides
He is the perfect example of why "score" should go out the window....Score means so much to him he goes Nuclear when somebody gets a kill on him, and his rants on 200 after you kill him make you think he is the second comming of VDallas.
Last encounter with him I dropped an egg on his Tiger at 135...You would have thought I stole his life savings on 200. If you dont have the perks to burn then dont up it.....if you do up a perked ride at least entertain the idea that you might not make it home :cry
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What is play to the cat,,,,,is death to the mouse! :cheers:
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OK so lets see, bailing from bombers might hurt Ur score, BUT, if u bail from bombers and a con is currently attacking u then the con gets 1 2 or 3 kills, BUT............
If u pull the ethernet cable from Ur comp and/or modem then u get only 1 disco and the con gets NO kills, so basically,
the con just wasted his time flying over getting set up and making the attempt to kill, and also RISK getting killed by the target.
Like i have said before this is the second time vDallas has did crap like that while I was attacking him. My squaddie SDFlak has
also experienced vDallas chickening out of a fight the same way......... now............
If Dallas would NOT have pulled ethernet cord, then he MOST ASSURADLY would have had 3 deaths, and I would have been able
to score the perks for killing him, which would have made it worth my time to track him down and make the attempt and take
the risk of dying to get the perks.
But as it worked out he won because he only got 1 death and 1 disco and i only got 1 kill (and associated perks) for my time and effort.
some may think it "crying or whining" , but I see it as flying a 15 OBJ plane to earn perks so I can fly a perked 5 OBJ plane for the fun of it!
Hey if u up a set of bombers "AT" a base that has a CV attacking it, then be prepared to lose those planes quickly and efficiently.
If u don't want to lose the planes then dint roll in them , said and done.
Bruv said
"Nothing can be done about this unless they seek a path of enlightenment and try to improve through strength of character."
in a sense he is right, especially about the character part
but yet for 2 days straight i saw ppl spamming the text box with "<salute> vDallas". Sry guys but I will never salute a person who's character
is worth less than minimum wage at McDonald's.
Essentially, AH can only do so much, but its up to the ppl that play to do the rest.
ME PERSONALLY, If I see ppl do things like what I've seen Dallas and a few others do, then I will never help that person under any circumstances,
and I will ask my squaddies to do the same.
tuning Ur vox to a particular person to insult him for anything should be an immediate ban from chat and vox for 30 days or more the first time and indefinitely the second time.
As it stands, his insistence of being immature seems to be welcomed from AH and its players. So therefor others see him do it and think that it is OK
for them to do it...........LEAD BY EXAMPLE as someone has said.
Soon AH will not have 4000 pilots on registry, they MIGHT have 400 then 300 then 200 if they can afford to operate at 200 subs a month.
All because of AH condoning gameplay such as Ive and others have seen.
AND YES CONDONING, if u do nothing to correct an issue that many have seemed to bring to light, then u must not believe there is an issue, but when u go out of business u will wonder " WHY OR HOW DID THAT HAPPEN "
and rewarding lamers like vDallas with pages and pages of salutes is the same as giving CEO's millions of dollars in bonuses for running their company into bankruptcy, then giving them money to keep it going and letting the idiot keep his job just to do it all over again
THATS MY DEFINITION OF INSANTY
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OK so lets see, bailing from bombers might hurt Ur score, BUT, if u bail from bombers and a con is currently attacking u then the con gets 1 2 or 3 kills, BUT............
If u pull the ethernet cable from Ur comp and/or modem then u get only 1 disco
This is incorrect. You will get 3.
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This is incorrect. You will get 3.
I stand corrected ~DS~
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some may think it "crying or whining" , but I see it as flying a 15 OBJ plane to earn perks so I can fly a perked 5 OBJ plane for the fun of it!
Ah. I'll shoot this one if he bails.
- oldman
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OK so lets see, bailing from bombers might hurt Ur score, BUT, if u bail from bombers and a con is currently attacking u then the con gets 1 2 or 3 kills, BUT............
If u pull the ethernet cable from Ur comp and/or modem then u get only 1 disco and the con gets NO kills, so basically,
the con just wasted his time flying over getting set up and making the attempt to kill, and also RISK getting killed by the target.
Like i have said before this is the second time vDallas has did crap like that while I was attacking him. My squaddie SDFlak has
also experienced vDallas chickening out of a fight the same way......... now............
If Dallas would NOT have pulled ethernet cord, then he MOST ASSURADLY would have had 3 deaths, and I would have been able
to score the perks for killing him, which would have made it worth my time to track him down and make the attempt and take
the risk of dying to get the perks.
But as it worked out he won because he only got 1 death and 1 disco and i only got 1 kill (and associated perks) for my time and effort.
some may think it "crying or whining" , but I see it as flying a 15 OBJ plane to earn perks so I can fly a perked 5 OBJ plane for the fun of it!
Hey if u up a set of bombers "AT" a base that has a CV attacking it, then be prepared to lose those planes quickly and efficiently.
If u don't want to lose the planes then dint roll in them , said and done.
Bruv said
"Nothing can be done about this unless they seek a path of enlightenment and try to improve through strength of character."
in a sense he is right, especially about the character part
but yet for 2 days straight i saw ppl spamming the text box with "<salute> vDallas". Sry guys but I will never salute a person who's character
is worth less than minimum wage at McDonald's.
Essentially, AH can only do so much, but its up to the ppl that play to do the rest.
ME PERSONALLY, If I see ppl do things like what I've seen Dallas and a few others do, then I will never help that person under any circumstances,
and I will ask my squaddies to do the same.
tuning Ur vox to a particular person to insult him for anything should be an immediate ban from chat and vox for 30 days or more the first time and indefinitely the second time.
As it stands, his insistence of being immature seems to be welcomed from AH and its players. So therefor others see him do it and think that it is OK
for them to do it...........LEAD BY EXAMPLE as someone has said.
Soon AH will not have 4000 pilots on registry, they MIGHT have 400 then 300 then 200 if they can afford to operate at 200 subs a month.
All because of AH condoning gameplay such as Ive and others have seen.
AND YES CONDONING, if u do nothing to correct an issue that many have seemed to bring to light, then u must not believe there is an issue, but when u go out of business u will wonder " WHY OR HOW DID THAT HAPPEN "
and rewarding lamers like vDallas with pages and pages of salutes is the same as giving CEO's millions of dollars in bonuses for running their company into bankruptcy, then giving them money to keep it going and letting the idiot keep his job just to do it all over again
THATS MY DEFINITION OF INSANTY
:salute Jackyl
I have to say I think that this stuff only bothers you so much because you are taking the game a little too seriously :/
I'm not dismissing your concerns, we all experience the same lame stuff from time to time...but just reading your post makes me think "wow, this guy needs to take a step back".
At the end of the day it's just a game that we play to have fun...sounds like you are losing your grip on the fun because you're getting mad about how other people play.
We'd all like it if HT would make some changes to the game to promote exciting gameplay rather than the current crapfest :pray but I think we just have to wait and be patient and try not to get burned out in the mean time
Also, if it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure the mass saluting of vDallas was sarcastic and actually intended as an insult :aok
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In case you missed it...
If anything in this game upsets you, you need to take a break.
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but yet for 2 days straight i saw ppl spamming the text box with "<salute> vDallas". Sry guys but I will never salute a person who's character
is worth less than minimum wage at McDonald's.
Everytime he does something stupid we salute him. Call it pity :banana:
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I couldn't resist falling back into the schoolmaster mode, so here we go: :old:
Bailing vs fighting in bombers - An example from a score point of view
I randomly grabbed the actual bomber score of a top 50 ranked player:
14 sorties; 3 deaths total (including bail & captured); 690,448 damage points
Let's assume he makes another bombing run in a formation and gets the same average damage points for it as in his previous missions.
I calculated the impact on his score ratings for three different outcomes:
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5886/clipboard01el.jpg)
As you can see, the difference between bailing and getting shot down are minimal, but both have a huge impact on score in comparison to getting home. That's why it's always better to try to fight your way home, no matter how slim your chance is.
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And this is the point that doesn't make sense. Bailing doesn't protect the score. In fact, Bomb'n'Bailers are probably the players least interested in score at all.
A bomber pilot who cares about his score will try to get home alive no matter what.
I do believe there is an increase in 'perks' received for a successful bail as opposed to a flaming death. He could just really really need bomber perkz. Also by not allowing someone to record hits on him, he's denying them the ability to increase their perk stores. I guess you could say it's a form of attrition warfare... in some weird convoluted sense of the word.
BTW... there's a certain Bomber Command Noobtastic squad out there that bailed repeatedly on me one day rather than give up kills on their way out to carpet bomb GV's. It's a fairly common thing.
I still think that if you're shot down or bail, there should be a 5 minute 'cool down' while your pilot is transported back to base. Maybe there would be more incentive to live, and not just HO, Bomb & Bail, or use other ACM(lol) to avoid a fight...
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BTW... there's a certain Bomber Command Noobtastic squad out there that bailed repeatedly on me one day rather than give up kills on their way out to carpet bomb GV's. It's a fairly common thing.
random piece of statistics:
In tour 141, 33% of all bomber sorties ended with a landing, 45% ended by "death" and 17% ended with a bailed/captured, with many if not most of those being "legit"
I do believe there is an increase in 'perks' received for a successful bail as opposed to a flaming death.
But as like with score, the reward for getting home alive (and possibly getting perks for killing your attacker) outweighs the small benefit of the bail by far.
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and rewarding lamers like vDallas with pages and pages of salutes is the same as giving CEO's millions of dollars in bonuses for running their company into bankruptcy, then giving them money to keep it going and letting the idiot keep his job just to do it all over again
Normally the 4 pages of <Salutes> are not a good thing... that's not a reward, and it's the only way some people will ever get Saluted, unless it's with one finger.
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But as like with score, the reward for getting home alive (and possibly getting perks for killing your attacker) outweighs the small benefit of the bail by far.
Maybe they have an underlying confidence issue, and feel so meek and helpless that they assume the outcome will automatically be death, so they may as well bail and get their extra 2% multiplier on their perkz. Kind of like an abused spouse assumes they'll get beat, so consigns themself to their fate.
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If you play this game for points and perks, you miss the point anyway :)
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Normally the 4 pages of <Salutes> are not a good thing... that's not a reward, and it's the only way some people will ever get Saluted, unless it's with one finger.
wil3ur has the right idea. we need a second type of salute in game. Maybe not the "one fingered salute" but some kind of way to acknowledge a players epicly lame in game actions. :noid :lol
I know it would get undeservedly spammed a lot, but so does the current salute.
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Simple: <F> <name> :D
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Simple: <F> <name> :D
That actually comes up with a sensor warning now, lol.
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Those are some pretty advanced sensors.... :noid
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I was cartoon killed several times last night. I want them all banned. :D
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Bailing from a plane vs towering from a GV
.
I have been roundly cussed out for being in a GV that had was tracked and turreted, no sups and an A20
3k out lining up for a bomb run. So, when I am in that situation I do what any rational person would do
in an actual combat situation. I tower and take the ditch. Yep it's running like a mad dog from a 500lb
death cookie.
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First you guys are speaking of different topics.
Most are speaking of bailing. The OP is saying he discoed.
Sounds to me it may be something like this.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,323620.0.html
HiTech
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That actually comes up with a sensor warning now, lol.
:rofl that's too funny
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First you guys are speaking of different topics.
Most are speaking of bailing. The OP is saying he discoed.
Sounds to me it may be something like this.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,323620.0.html
HiTech
Again!!! HT is clouding the issue with facts!!
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A perfectly fun discussion ruined by HT again. :neener:
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That may be the case HT, although from previuos encounters that I and a friend, have had with Dallas since we started playing this game...................I dont think so
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I think everyone is missing the point. It isn't that Dallas or whomever bailed, it's the fact that as gameplay deteriorates due to people "gaming" (by bailing, hording, or whatever), many old heads are leaving the game. As the old heads leave, the game deteriorates further until one day we all wake up to find there is no more AH.
Trash talking has gotten to a point where it isn't about being clever, it's about being as rude as you can without being muted.
What many of us who have been on here for a few years like about the game is the camaraderie, and friends we have made here. As those friends leave, for whatever reason, it opens the door wider for others of us to leave as well.
It really IS about how you play the game, not how you game the play.
TeeArr
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Very well put. :salute
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His bailing has nothing to do with his score.
His bailing has everything to do with denying a kill to the enemy.
These same guys will do everything they can to make sure nobody enjoys encountering them in the air.
I would rather they deny kills by not playing at all.