Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slade on January 07, 2013, 02:32:34 PM
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Guys,
This deserves a new thread. Hopefully we can clarify a P-51 perception thing.
Good Pony Pilot: One who slows down enough to get out-turned/accelerated/gunned by almost every other plane in the set
Is there any P-51 pilot that consistently DOMINATES turn fight planes (Spits, Zeros etc.) not using B n Z?
I have had some good moments in a P-51 fighting Spits on their own turf (dumping the flaps, yanking the rudder over, ACM vertical stall and shoots etc. etc.) but cannot consistently compete with a Spit pilot of equal skill as me, in a turn fight, from a P-51. Can you? Did anyone in WWII?
Everyone has good moments, and there are some amazing P-51 sticks out there, but I dont see P-51s beat Spits\LA7s at their own game consistently other than Bruv.
Thanks,
Slade :salute
[Sillness SIdebar]
Bruv can see the code in the Matrix and thus does not qualify. Bruv knows what every pilot is going to do before they do it and has bullets waiting. Greebo is VERY close to this. Others make mistakes once in a while.
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God, next midway here? :rofl
BigR is probably the best pony stick I've run across so far.
but cannot compete with a Spit pilot of equal skill as me, in a turn fight, from a P-51. Can you? Did anyone in WWII?
Judging by the fact they were both Allied aircraft --- No.
Everyone has good moments, and there are some amazing P-51 sticks out there, but I dont see P-51s beat Spits\LA7s at their own game consistently other than Bruv.
I've never seen bruv in a pony, and if I did see him in a pony, although he is good, he is also smart. He wouldn't try to turn with a spit or zeke in a pony.
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stokes (or strokes) is very good in them, as is batfinkV. There was someone else too recently, but I can't recall the name. Fought his PonyD vs my Spifire with awesome skill. :aok
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I have got surprised a few times by a few pony pilots in my Spit 8. Most pony pilots will not stop to play with a Spit 8 at altitude. When one does it is so surprising you are actually behind the ball a bit trying to catch up to them. Most ponies you figure they will never slow down, and others you have to work you butt off to close distance and get them locked into your fight.
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Don't forget Rocky! He is really good too in a P-51.
The context gentlemen. The context is this: can a P-51 consistently beat a turn-fighter if the pilots are of the same skill - is it realistic to expect this?
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Don't forget Rocky! He is really good too in a P-51.
The context gentlemen. The context is this: can a P-51 consistently beat a turn-fighter if the pilots are of the same skill - is it realistic to expect this?
Simple answer to that question: No.
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Simple answer to that question: No.
Agreed.
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The quoted bit in the OP was posted by a butt hurt Pony driver being passive-aggressive in Ink's thread. The comment has nothing to do with anything other than said Pony driver's misconceptions of what others think good P-51 flying looks like.
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Don't forget Rocky! He is really good too in a P-51.
He is a good shot and good at attacking from a perch. As soon as advantage is lost for one second, he is extending out. :bolt:
OlDemon was by far the best (IMO) at slow fighting in the 51D. Rogent could mix it up pretty good too.
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Simple answer to that question: No.
Ditto.
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I used to fly the PonyD exclusively and wracked up many a kill in it. The PonyD is actually great at stall fighting and can make many mediocre and noobish pilots scream. For a good opponent it would be a matter of turn into them, attempt a few turns, if they make a mistake press and kill them. And if they don't (the good ones don't) disengage, track out a few Ks, reset and re-engage.
I've killed several spits on the deck going verticle, flaps, rudder, chop throttle, etc but there weren't that good. A good Spit driver will kill a good PonyD for the sake that it out turns, out excellerates, etc, etc. Has the advantage in all areas minus top end spend, endurance and length of fire. I've killed many La7s this way as well, and F4Us, though it is a pilot skill level being measured, not the bird.
My two cents.
Boo
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Don't forget Rocky! He is really good too in a P-51.
He gets a lot of kills in a P51
Is he actually good at dogfighting in it though?
Has anyone actually been able to fight him to confirm? :lol
ALFAMEGA was good in a 51 before he turning into a Lightning lover. BigR is great as already mentioned. TomFool and RaveN can dogfight well in it too, SirNuke is just a noob picker :D
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^ Righto, forgot about ole' TomFool he's very good in a pony, ALFAMEGA is a Bomber noob now, and I've never-ever seen rocky do anything but pick,run,and stir (No offense, just the only things I've ever seen him do)
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Don't forget Rocky! He is really good too in a P-51.
The context gentlemen. The context is this: can a P-51 consistently beat a turn-fighter if the pilots are of the same skill - is it realistic to expect this?
Sure it can.......as long as it doesn't turnfight with it.... :D
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The quoted bit in the OP was posted by a butt hurt Pony driver being passive-aggressive in Ink's thread. The comment has nothing to do with anything other than said Pony driver's misconceptions of what others think good P-51 flying looks like.
The underlining point is true. To some (I'd even go as far as saying most), if you're not in a sustained turn fight, you're not fighting. As much as "fighting to your a/c's strengths" is a virtue, many people just want you to succumb to their will and let you kill them.
Consistent domination in turn fights by a Pony pilot? I don't think you'll find one. It's not as bad of a turner as some think, but if you're constantly getting into turn fights in a Pony, the only people you'll beat are other Pony's or below average pilots.
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First of all, who made the rule that in order to be a good 51 jockey you have to fight a certain way? Saying, "oh the 51 guy is good until he loses the advantage, then extends", is like saying the Brewster or Sptfire pilot is good until he loses the advantage, then he turns! :bhead I just don't get that argument.
I think the problem with the 51s is everyone is a damned expert on them, everyone flies them and most run like hell at the first sign of trouble. Well listen up folks.....SO DOES 262S, F4U-4, AND TEMPEST GUYS!. If there were as many jets in the air as there are 51s in this game, the 51s wouldn't have the rep they do.
Personally I hate the bad rep the P51 has around here. But I understand why. So I try to fight whatever and whenever I can even when knowing I'm going to the tower shortly. I fought SFoxs' F4U-A one time in the knife fight. Not a good idea, but hey...better then running right? So after I lose he proceeds to tell me I don't fly the 51 correctly :bhead If I had fought him "correctly" he would have been in the tower instead of me, and I would be called a running picker more then likely. :rolleyes:
With all that being said, I've seen some outstanding 51 guys in the past. SkatSr and Steve come to mind as well as 0leDemon. And what set them apart was not so much their flying skills but their gunnery was 2nd to none. Alot of guys can get in there and mix it up with spits, hurris' and the such, but you better not miss your shot or you're toast. Because one you're out of E in a 51 it takes forever to get it back when you have no room to dive.
I can't speak to how good Rocky is...never fought him and BigR is on my side,...never fought him either. But right now B2B and RedTop are my favorite to fight. I'd like to get my hands on SirNuke but I can't ever catch him. :lol
I'd say there are bunches of good 51 sticks out there.... all with different styles and skill levels :joystick:
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the la7 matchup in a P51 is actually not impossible, the spits are another story :rolleyes:
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The quoted bit in the OP was posted by a butt hurt Pony driver being passive-aggressive in Ink's thread. The comment has nothing to do with anything other than said Pony driver's misconceptions of what others think good P-51 flying looks like.
Karnak, from a butt-hurt pony driver, to a sweetheartbag who can't take a joke, touche.
I fly half a dozen planes in the set, regularly, sir.
My "misconception" was a joke aimed at those who decry pony pilots for flying too fast for them to use their advantages on.
You would think that since you literally live here on the forum you'd have picked up enough just by proxy to get that.
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the la7 matchup in a P51 is actually not impossible, the spits are another story :rolleyes:
Yeah I would of had me a LaLa the other day until you dropped in and kilt me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious :lol
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And who says I'm a runner? I currently kill 13 people per hour :D :bolt:
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And who says I'm a runner? I currently kill 13 people per hour :D :bolt:
Man that's insane! :O I only have about 3.75 or so an hour. I don't know how you guys do it :lol :huh
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Man that's insane! :O I only have about 3.75 or so an hour. I don't know how you guys do it :lol :huh
Squad fighting alone its a different story :devil
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Squad fighting alone its a different story :devil
if you're flying with bruv your kills/hours actually decrease from enemies deprivation :uhoh...now if you give me some quality bait.... :t
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The underlining point is true. To some (I'd even go as far as saying most), if you're not in a sustained turn fight, you're not fighting. As much as "fighting to your a/c's strengths" is a virtue, many people just want you to succumb to their will and let you kill them.
Consistent domination in turn fights by a Pony pilot? I don't think you'll find one. It's not as bad of a turner as some think, but if you're constantly getting into turn fights in a Pony, the only people you'll beat are other Pony's or below average pilots.
My primary ride is the Mosquito Mk VI, which has similar performance to the P-51D, turning slightly better and rolling worse, about the same climb and only 10mph slower on the deck.
Trust me when I say they can both be used aggressively without TnBing.
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SkatSr and Tango were two of the most aggressive. Haven't seen anyone like them lately. Only had BigR be that aggressive (and kill me) alone in an LA7.
I've literally run my fuel tank to empty chasing Rocky after he missed a pass. Rapier too.
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I know to other players,
Lag and ping who make miracles ... :airplane:
:salute
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Olddemon was by far the best TnB 51 I personally have ever seen.....Steve was a phenomenal shot....but stayed fast.
even after all the time I have ingame...I still don't blame the plane for how the pilot flies them....P51 is a great bird.... :aok
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if you're flying with bruv your kills/hours actually decrease from enemies deprivation :uhoh...now if you give me some quality bait.... :t
Meet the bait ........ :cry
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First of all, who made the rule that in order to be a good 51 jockey you have to fight a certain way? Saying, "oh the 51 guy is good until he loses the advantage, then extends", is like saying the Brewster or Sptfire pilot is good until he loses the advantage, then he turns! :bhead I just don't get that argument.
I think the problem with the 51s is everyone is a damned expert on them, everyone flies them and most run like hell at the first sign of trouble. Well listen up folks.....SO DOES 262S, F4U-4, AND TEMPEST GUYS!. If there were as many jets in the air as there are 51s in this game, the 51s wouldn't have the rep they do.
Personally I hate the bad rep the P51 has around here. But I understand why. So I try to fight whatever and whenever I can even when knowing I'm going to the tower shortly. I fought SFoxs' F4U-A one time in the knife fight. Not a good idea, but hey...better then running right? So after I lose he proceeds to tell me I don't fly the 51 correctly :bhead If I had fought him "correctly" he would have been in the tower instead of me, and I would be called a running picker more then likely. :rolleyes:
With all that being said, I've seen some outstanding 51 guys in the past. SkatSr and Steve come to mind as well as 0leDemon. And what set them apart was not so much their flying skills but their gunnery was 2nd to none. Alot of guys can get in there and mix it up with spits, hurris' and the such, but you better not miss your shot or you're toast. Because one you're out of E in a 51 it takes forever to get it back when you have no room to dive.
I can't speak to how good Rocky is...never fought him and BigR is on my side,...never fought him either. But right now B2B and RedTop are my favorite to fight. I'd like to get my hands on SirNuke but I can't ever catch him. :lol
I'd say there are bunches of good 51 sticks out there.... all with different styles and skill levels :joystick:
^ What he said...
And for the record...Thanks Uptown...B2B and I really enjoy the fights we have and have had with you as well...Always fun no matter how bad you whip me :lol :salute !!!
SkatSr...Steve....Stang....Ta ngo...Bigr....and more than I can think of right now just whipped me into flying it at some point and time. I've ran a few times...to many films out there to deny that. :lol And for the most part I use the speed of the pony to my advantage...but I have fought it in the weeds quite a few times...dumping flaps and chopping the throttle like a ton of onions....In general I'm not very good in ANY plane....and don't care either....I used to...but now...I just want to have fun...score some kills...laugh with my squaddies..listen to a couple on vox cut jokes...
I fly it because I enjoy it....its fun...It does things well that suit my style of fighting right now....I've fought in teh weeds 1000's of times....in spits and stuff...now I fly different than I used to and the pony is what I choose to do it in.
The Pony Rep isn't deserved as bad as it is....do folks run? Yep...but as was said...so do MOST perk rides and others who just dont want to fight as bad...Its ok...its thier money. I pick a few...MISSS A TON!!!!...auger and hit trees often....run into guys cause I cant judge things...break crap all the time....
The pony is just another plane in the bunch...I'm not gonna turn fight a zeke...or spits very often....Prolly not a G6 or F3 or F6 either....no way I'll yank and bank my pony with an I16 or FM2...
Run90's get thier rep for a reason...Brewsters (I hate em... :lol) for a reason...Spits for a reason....Ponies just fall into the rep game cause people who ont fly em , or cant beat em at the ponies game dont like em.
Just my humble opinion!!!!
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Run90's get thier rep for a reason...Brewsters (I hate em... :lol) for a reason...Spits for a reason....Ponies just fall into the rep game cause people who ont fly em , or cant beat em at the ponies game dont like em.
Just my humble opinion!!!!
Uh huh. You keep on believing your self validating stuff. Ponies are disliked for reasons that are just as valid.
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Uh huh. You keep on believing your self validating stuff. Ponies are disliked for reasons that are just as valid.
Ponies are disliked...Tempest are disliked..190D9's are disliked...list goes on and on....
Didn't realise I was self validating.... :eek: Think I'll just step over here---> and keep quiet :bolt:
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I'd say that I'm a pretty good pony pilot. I would and have taken on many other planes in a turning fight. I would say I win 90% of the time. The only reason I don't engage into a turning fight often is that a second fighter (with E) is almost always nearby. Since the 51 is the plane to beat, it is very desirable. When the 51 is low and slow a second fighter will cut power and stay on the 51's six. The second fighter will then brag how good he/she is after killing the 51.
Driving a pony kind of reminds me of a friend who owned a Corvette. Every kid driving their mom's hand-me-down car wants to race a vet. I remember one time a 15-yearold beater Deville pulled next to him and gunned his engine signaling his desire to race when the streetlight turns green. What was really funny was the Deville had a freaken spare tire on the front axle. However, my friend didn’t bother racing the guy. :rofl
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I'd say that I'm a pretty good pony pilot. I would and have taken on many other planes in a turning fight. I would say I win 90% of the time. The only reason I don't engage into a turning fight often is that a second fighter (with E) is almost always nearby. Since the 51 is the plane to beat, it is very desirable. When the 51 is low and slow a second fighters will cut power and stay on the the 51's six. The second fighter will then brag how good he/she is after killing the 51.
:huh You're not saying you can beat the mighty Spitfire 90% of the time are you?
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:huh You're not saying you can beat the mighty Spitfire 90% of the time are you?
No, I'd say I kill Spit's about 95% or better. However, a spit did get me the other night. I was on the deck going 300 mph. A Spit dived on my six and I did a barrel roll. After missing me I followed the guy in a vertical and took off a wing. A second later the CV ack towered my butt.
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No, I'd say I kill Spit's about 95% or better. However, a spit did get me the other night. I was on the deck going 300 mph. A Spit dived on my six and I did a barrel roll. After missing me I followed the guy in a vertical and took off a wing. A second later the CV ack towered my butt.
:huh
This mighty Spitfire will pwn you with ease and substantial frequency. :old:
I will look for smoe in the MA. :old:
Let it be known. :old:
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:huh
This mighty Spitfire will pwn you with ease and substantial frequency. :old:
I will look for smoe in the MA. :old:
Let it be known. :old:
Sweet, you got some free kills coming your way smoe!
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Oldemon, BigR
The Spit Vs 51 talk is silly. As the comment was made often back when it was real. The 51 was doing over Berlin what the Spit drivers could only imagine doing. Spits were short range interceptors. Mustangs were long range escorts.
Why would a 51 driver play to a Spitfire's strengths?
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Oldemon, BigR
The Spit Vs 51 talk is silly. As the comment was made often back when it was real. The 51 was doing over Berlin what the Spit drivers could only imagine doing. Spits were short range interceptors. Mustangs were long range escorts.
Why would a 51 driver play to a Spitfire's strengths?
Because, as he says, 95% of the time he succeeds? :headscratch:
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Oldemon, BigR
The Spit Vs 51 talk is silly. As the comment was made often back when it was real. The 51 was doing over Berlin what the Spit drivers could only imagine doing. Spits were short range interceptors. Mustangs were long range escorts.
Why would a 51 driver play to a Spitfire's strengths?
The quote I recall from an American Spit VIII pilot who converted to P-51s was something like "The P-51 won't do what the Spitfire will do, but it will do it over Berlin."
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Sweet, you got some free kills coming your way smoe!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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To some (I'd even go as far as saying most), if you're not in a sustained turn fight, you're not fighting.
This might be the biggest misconception in the game.
There is a good deal more to air combat than turning your airplane.
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Hey Karnak....lets have lunch sometime....Your in Austin...
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Hey Karnak....lets have lunch sometime....Your in Austin...
That would be great. What part of Austin are you in?
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That would be great. What part of Austin are you in?
I live in Round Rock...work 3-11 at night right down town by the capital...sometime next week would be cool..depending on where your at...we could meet bout anywhere for some lunch!!
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I work in Manor and am moving to Hutto next month. I work 08:00 to 19:00 Friday through Monday. Generally available outside of those hours.
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I work in Manor and am moving to Hutto next month. I work 08:00 to 19:00 Friday through Monday. Generally available outside of those hours.
Hutto? Sweet..I live near the Dell Diamond...How about next Wednesday...In Hutto....at Rio Grand? Mexican Food place near Home Depot. Say...noonish? Or in Austin...maybe north Austin at FreeBirds near parmer Lane? It's in taht shopping area on te N. bound side of 35 by that Super Target?
Or you call the place...man food is my game!!!! lol I can eat about anything....except sushi or to many veggies. :lol
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I know that Freebirds well. Noon next Wednesday ought to be fine. Wednesday the 9th or Wednesday the 16th?
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I know that Freebirds well. Noon next Wednesday ought to be fine. Wednesday the 9th or Wednesday the 16th?
16th...I'll be there...freebirds...noon....G ray Bearded guy...Brown Ford F250 Superduty 4X4 diesel....see ya then!!!
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Chuck Yaeger said something like, "A Spit can do for 45 minutes what a Mustang can do all day." Somethinng like this.
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Freebirds??? Lame.
Go to some hole-in-the-wall mexican joint where you have to order in Spanish and your whole meal including the tip is like $8.
That's just cuz I'm in Lubbock and the Mexican food here sucks.
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Freebirds??? Lame.
Go to some hole-in-the-wall mexican joint where you have to order in Spanish and your whole meal including the tip is like $8.
That's just cuz I'm in Lubbock and the Mexican food here sucks.
LOLOL everything in Lubbock suks!!!
We have all the tex mex we can handle here...The burritos at freebirds are pretty damn good!!!
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I still haven't found a good Mexican place since moving to Texas from California. I've found some ok places, but not a good one yet.
I did find a very nice Indian restaurant in San Antonio though.
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:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh I am that special Pony pilot ! :neener: :neener: :neener: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rofl :rofl :rofl :neener: :neener: :neener:
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I still haven't found a good Mexican place since moving to Texas from California. I've found some ok places, but not a good one yet.
I did find a very nice Indian restaurant in San Antonio though.
You have to eat at Mi Tierra at least once if you ever spend some time in San Antonio. Famous people eat there. It could be that your expecting real Mexican food. It's all Tex-mex in these parts.
Uh... relevent non-thread hijacking post...
I can only see three reasons you would try to out turn a spit in a pony.
1. You're a masochist? Like the abuse? And this abuse will be comming from more than just the spit.
2. You got slow and stupid, or stupid and slow, and now the spit gots ya dead to rights.
3. The spit HOd, you knew he would, and so you executed your lead turn like an effin pro. Meanwhile, the spit made a flat turn and your about to blast that spit with a rage that only Palestinians can understand.
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These 51 threads are getting funny....No a 51 isnt going to compete in a stall fight with turny birds, all other things being equal. Thats assuming the turny bird pilot isnt taken by huge surprise when the 51 merges with him and doesnt run away. I get many kills that way. People always underestimate the mustang, and thats its biggest strength. Somehow the legend of the Cadillac of the skies has been diminished in some way in this game...My job is to remind everyone. I love flying "dweeb" planes. It riles up the old folks. Been flying the LA7 a lot lately..such a dream. I have caused many rage quits with it. I think thats an achievement HT should add. "RageAce: Cause 5 players to Rage Quit"
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These 51 threads are getting funny....No a 51 isnt going to compete in a stall fight with turny birds, all other things being equal. Thats assuming the turny bird pilot isnt taken by huge surprise when the 51 merges with him and doesnt run away. I get many kills that way. People always underestimate the mustang, and thats its biggest strength. Somehow the legend of the Cadillac of the skies has been diminished in some way in this game...My job is to remind everyone. I love flying "dweeb" planes. It riles up the old folks. Been flying the LA7 a lot lately..such a dream. I have caused many rage quits with it. I think thats an achievement HT should add. "RageAce: Cause 5 players to Rage Quit"
You like to get a rise out of people on occasion too, huh? :D
One of the nice side benefits flying and pwning in a Spitfire, especially when pwning ponies.. :banana:
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These 51 threads are getting funny....No a 51 isnt going to compete in a stall fight with turny birds, all other things being equal. Thats assuming the turny bird pilot isnt taken by huge surprise when the 51 merges with him and doesnt run away. I get many kills that way. People always underestimate the mustang, and thats its biggest strength. Somehow the legend of the Cadillac of the skies has been diminished in some way in this game...My job is to remind everyone. I love flying "dweeb" planes. It riles up the old folks. Been flying the LA7 a lot lately..such a dream. I have caused many rage quits with it. I think thats an achievement HT should add. "RageAce: Cause 5 players to Rage Quit"
Never get me to rage quit but, I must admit, I'm usually am suprised when a pony actually wants to fight and is able to latch on to me like you do. If anything, it makes me want to up again and find you. You're the exception to the pony pilot rule BigR. Most of the pony stuff that shows up on these boards doesn't apply to you. Unlike other "respected" 51 drivers (Rocky and Pand come to mind), you know how to fight with it and don't need 2 friends and a bag of E get the job done.
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Karnak, redtop I'm up in Georgetown! Nice to see players in the local area! :salute
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I still haven't found a good Mexican place since moving to Texas from California. I've found some ok places, but not a good one yet.
Weird - I moved from Texas to California and I've experienced the opposite - I won't go as far as to say that Mexican food in California is bad...it's just different compared to what I was used to in Texas.
Tons of good places in Houston and Austin.
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Unlike other "respected" 51 drivers (Rocky and Pand come to mind), you know how to fight with it and don't need 2 friends and a bag of E get the job done.
Ah, finally got a mention. Thanks LilMak!
This was a sortie from not too long ago that I enjoyed! I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how this style of flying matches up with the general expectations of a pony pilot furballing in the MA.
Disclaimers:
- I had a blast.
- I claim to be better than no one.
- 1v1 most would probably kill me every time.
- Listen for the easter egg quote :P
Film: http://www.filedropper.com/pandp51b6killslowaltfun
Make sure to click the "Download this File" button halfway down the page (not the decoy one up top), and enter the captcha code.
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Never get me to rage quit but, I must admit, I'm usually am suprised when a pony actually wants to fight and is able to latch on to me like you do. If anything, it makes me want to up again and find you. You're the exception to the pony pilot rule BigR. Most of the pony stuff that shows up on these boards doesn't apply to you. Unlike other "respected" 51 drivers (Rocky and Pand come to mind), you know how to fight with it and don't need 2 friends and a bag of E get the job done.
Always good times fighting your Jug sir! :salute
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These 51 threads are getting funny....No a 51 isnt going to compete in a stall fight with turny birds, all other things being equal. Thats assuming the turny bird pilot isnt taken by huge surprise when the 51 merges with him and doesnt run away. I get many kills that way. People always underestimate the mustang, and thats its biggest strength. Somehow the legend of the Cadillac of the skies has been diminished in some way in this game...My job is to remind everyone. I love flying "dweeb" planes. It riles up the old folks. Been flying the LA7 a lot lately..such a dream. I have caused many rage quits with it. I think thats an achievement HT should add. "RageAce: Cause 5 players to Rage Quit"
I can think of at least two times you've caught me out like that :aok. Talk about a classic Oh S*** moment!
:salute
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I always considered the Yak U a fantastic Pony hunter. Problem is, often next to impossible to ever find a Pony on his own and one that would be willing to stay and fight it out vs the Yak.
But the odd great fights made up for all the many times I'd get picked off by Ponies when in Yak T
Please HT update the Yak.. :cry
<S>...-Gixer
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Use every plane with it's strengths. Can't expect to win most turn fights against a plane better designed for it.
Pony has no problem with killing others in it's own way. Assuming many noobs fly the La7 or 16 and most other models probally flown by the more experienced.
Late War Tour 155
Kills by the P-51D
Killed Model Type Killed Percent
Kills K/D
La-5FN 81 0.339
La-7 947 3.965
Spitfire Mk I 63 0.24
Spitfire Mk IX 3565 0.96
Spitfire Mk V 611 0.58
Spitfire Mk VIII 5381 1.01
Spitfire Mk XIV 698 1.26
Spitfire Mk XVI 13287 1.13
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I'll turn with anything in a 51, and I especially like stallfighting La7's, Spit 16's, all 109's, and 38's.
Zeros are a nightmare to stallfight against, and I end up having to climb out of the fight, and Spit 8's are extremely difficult as well if it starts going into a looping fight. A few people who fly Ki84's are the same.
If you see me running away, it's usually from multiple cons where I know I have no chance of winning. I don't mind losing, but I'm not about handing out free kills. :)
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Ah, finally got a mention. Thanks LilMak!
The non-stop HOing LilMak that lost a HO in a N1K2 to a Bravo? Man that was one tearful night on 200.
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190D9 against P51s are always nice fites for me, no matter the final result :aok
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Steve. Period.
This thread can end now. Perfect use of one notch of flaps gets you rolling with him and the second and third notches were timed so that you couldn't slow down with him. Aerial gunnery was snapshot/perfect. If he didn't have the right entry into the fight to get slow with you, he'd extend and start over. No waiting in line for his return...Zeke, Spit or brew, he came back
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Steve. Period.
This thread can end now. Perfect use of one notch of flaps gets you rolling with him and the second and third notches were timed so that you couldn't slow down with him. Aerial gunnery was snapshot/perfect. If he didn't have the right entry into the fight to get slow with you, he'd extend and start over. No waiting in line for his return...Zeke, Spit or brew, he came back
He flew it 'right', but I think there are several better at turning it, at least from my experiences. But it's relative to what I consider better.
I've found there are 3 general types of fighting:
1. Those who fly timidly, extending at the slightest loss of an E advantage, usually reversing when they have friends.
2. Those who fly somewhat aggressively, utilizing their planes strengths without playing into the hands of their enemy's strengths, extending when they lose offensive options.
3. Those who fly aggressively, fighting the other plane's fight, trying to win in ways the plane shouldn't.
Which makes the 'best' cartoon pilot? Is it the guy that flies like #2, which is the probably the smartest way to fly? Or is it the guy that flies like #3, which takes fancy ACMs, good coordination, and some luck?
Personally, I've found #3 to be more fun. It was that way for me back in AW too. I also really enjoy fighting the guys that fight the #3 method as well.
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Use every plane with it's strengths. Can't expect to win most turn fights against a plane better designed for it.
Pony has no problem with killing others in it's own way. Assuming many noobs fly the La7 or 16 and most other models probally flown by the more experienced.
Late War Tour 155
Kills by the P-51D
Killed Model Type Killed Percent
Kills K/D
La-5FN 81 0.339
La-7 947 3.965
I have to wonder if the La5's K/D is so much better based on pilot or just the fact that acceleration isn't as difficult to manage since it's so much less than the La7...
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steve? did he even log a sortie in the last 5 years?
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I have to wonder if the La5's K/D is so much better based on pilot or just the fact that acceleration isn't as difficult to manage since it's so much less than the La7...
Where do you see a "so much better" K/D for the La-5?
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Always good times fighting your Jug sir! :salute
And great fighting you in the mustang. :salute
Not so much the LA though. It's usually over for me too quick.
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Where do you see a "so much better" K/D for the La-5?
It says Kills by the P51, then shows a terrible K/D near the La5... even so far this tour it's still a bit more favorable 51D vs La7 than La5...
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It says Kills by the P51, then shows a terrible K/D near the La5
The is no K/D mentioned on that table at all. It's labeled "percent" - It's the share of kills the P-51 has on this plane. the LA-5 made up 0.339 % of all kills by the P-51
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He flew it 'right', but I think there are several better at turning it, at least from my experiences. But it's relative to what I consider better.
I've found there are 3 general types of fighting:
1. Those who fly timidly, extending at the slightest loss of an E advantage, usually reversing when they have friends.
2. Those who fly somewhat aggressively, utilizing their planes strengths without playing into the hands of their enemy's strengths, extending when they lose offensive options.
3. Those who fly aggressively, fighting the other plane's fight, trying to win in ways the plane shouldn't.
Which makes the 'best' cartoon pilot? Is it the guy that flies like #2, which is the probably the smartest way to fly? Or is it the guy that flies like #3, which takes fancy ACMs, good coordination, and some luck?
Personally, I've found #3 to be more fun. It was that way for me back in AW too. I also really enjoy fighting the guys that fight the #3 method as well.
Well put. Cant really classify them any better than that. I would have to say that you cant really knock anyone for using any of these styles.
Number one is the only one you can really fault someone for, but can you really fault them? It's almost guaranteed they fly that way because they do not have the skill level to fly any more aggressively and survive. Then you have to ask how long have they played? If they are brand new, then they are flying wisely at their level but their fear of dying is going to hinder their rapid skill improvement.
3 is definitely more fun.
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The is no K/D mentioned on that table at all. It's labeled "percent" - It's the share of kills the P-51 has on this plane. the LA-5 made up 0.339 % of all kills by the P-51
I quoted the table I was referring to:
Kills K/D
La-5FN 81 0.339
La-7 947 3.965
I don't see how I can be reading it incorrectly, but if so, do enlighten!
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Late War Tour 155
Kills by the P-51D
Killed Model Type Killed Percent
Kills K/D
La-5FN 81 0.339
La-7 947 3.965
This is the table you are referring to. the "K/D has been wrongly inserted by Slate. If you look at it, you still can see the original, correct colummn headers "Killed Model Type - Killed - Percent"
Here is the web address for this table he was trying to quote: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/pkd.php?type=1&selectTour=LWTour155&pindex=0
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Thank you for the correction, sirah!
I guess the P-51D vs La-7 "K/D" should have clued me right off...
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steve? did he even log a sortie in the last 5 years?
So what....neither has Levi but there's no doubt he was the best Spit driver around.
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So what....neither has Levi but there's no doubt he was the best Spit driver around.
Absolutely correct....none better!!!
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So what....neither has Levi but there's no doubt he was the best Spit driver around.
:rolleyes: legends grow stronger with time. Bet Bruv could take him now, and possibly me as well. Never fought Steve, but suspect I could take him too... since BigR's pony is... well... beatable. :D
Legends take on larger than life capabilities with the assistance of time. :old:
I'm sure they were both good though in their time. :)
Nuff said. :bolt:
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Levi would smear you, Midway.
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Levi would smear you, Midway.
The proof would be in the pudding. :aok
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The proof would be in the pudding. :aok
And Pudding is exactly what you would be...after he completely wiped the floor with you....he was and I would even say if he cam back within a week would smack you around like a rag doll when you were at the absolute top of your game.
No one since I have been here has ever matched him in a SpitV...ever.
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And Pudding is exactly what you would be...after he completely wiped the floor with you....he was and I would even say if he cam back within a week would smack you around like a rag doll when you were at the absolute top of your game.
No one since I have been here has ever matched him in a SpitV...ever.
Would pay $15 extra to watch Levy vs Bruv fights to see proof of said pudding... and to have a go at him myself.
:)
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Would pay $15 extra to watch Levy vs Bruv fights to see proof of said pudding... and to have a go at him myself.
:)
Yeah...I would...Ive seen Bruv in the V...he's good...damn good as a matter of fact...there are ALOT of good V flyers...but I'm telling you that in the old days when Levi was in the V that he could...and did on more than one occasion wax 4 , 5 , 6 cons at a time. 4 on 1's were not a problem...did he die? sure...was he the best in the V yes....
Look...I'm not gonna get in some pissin match with you...I've seen him beat up on guys that are still around and beating your donut on the reg.. so when I tell you that there was non better...don't believe me...ask....You may get a few that say different...but I think most if honest and remember him will tell you that he was the best. Given a lil time back in the saddle...he'd beat most if not all comers. He may have a bit with the better guys...but 3 out 5 I feel he'd win.
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Midtwit couldn't hang with most of the folks I trained with.... some names that would own Whotwit easily-
Bovidae
Sniper
Levi
Fester
Stang
dedalos
creton
maneTMP/blukitty
yucca
barfinkV
Kappa
widewing
Murdr
wildthing
wetrat
KillinU
I'm sure I'm forgetting many, but these fellas weren't/aren't one trick ponies, they were ACM studs! The likes of which Midtwit wouldn't be able to lift their jockstraps.... cept for ManeTMP since she doesn't wear a jockstrap! :devil
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I flew and trained with most of them too and you :)
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Midtwit couldn't...
If you call me Midtwit one more time I may have to start substituting Cry for Sky. :old:
But I'm above such silly juvenile dark sided name calling. :old:
Please carry on with the intent of the OP. :old:
I thank you. :old:
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I'm sure I'm forgetting many, but these fellas weren't/aren't one trick ponies, they were ACM studs! The likes of which Midtwit wouldn't be able to lift their jockstraps.... cept for ManeTMP since she doesn't wear a jockstrap! :devil
yeah, you did tool... :neener: who spent a lot of time getting you up to par racking the pony around before passing you off to the spit and hog weenies in the BKs and 109 weenies in the Muppets? :noid
I'd say you and wldthing were the two I've spent the most time with... a lot of others, sure. It was nice to see and assist in the progression and bump up to the higher levels of fighting.
I don't know how a levi/bruv matchup would end, but I'd be putting my money on levi without hesitation.
For Midway:
And just to put an end to this... no one can claim any sort of pwnage unless it's in the DA, same plane(s) - that's when you remove the variable of the machine and environment and it comes down to the person behind the stick (well, discounting technical factors like pc, connex, etc, lol, I'm kidding, somewhat.) There are other levels of pwnage, mixed planes, strength vs strength, etc, but again it's has to be 1 v 1 in the DA, even if no alt cap agreed on etc.. the MA is just too random to proclaim any sort of pwnage that has any relevant meaning.
If you take a look at the perceived top dogfighters, you'll find that many of them have experience in a variety of rides - look at the Dueling Ladder for example.
You also have the perceived top "killers" who if they aren't considered a dogfighter, generally specialize in one or two planes. Ack-Ack for example... he's a killer and tough and knows what he's doing, but he's not really considered a dogfighter per se... follow?
You refuse to be a dogfighter. And you fail at being a killer. You're stuck Midway.
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Yup, I forgot one...
...and Shane, who I am still a big fan of... when I started, the call would go out on country that Shane was in the area in his la7 and many of us would go out to find him... upon arriving, it was not uncommon to find him stall fighting some of what was left of the first 6 or so fellas that went after him before we showed up... then, when he finally went down, the much anticipated comment on ch200.... you slobberdonkeys arent bad 8 vs 1! It wasn't slobberdonkeys though, what the hell was it you used to say?
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Funny how the thread has gone from a discussion about a plane to one of ego vs ego. Anyone who actually cares about that kind of thing should really step away form keyboard and get some sun.
Score,stats,reputation,persona,ego etc only person who cares about any of it is you.
<S>...-Gixer
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My my my...and youre all forgetting one old timer that still rears his head from time to time....that with a week or so of up-time (cuz I've fought him and most of you) could handle anyone in the game....
Bighorn. Absolutely amazing. Able to play with his food before he filets it, prepares it, decides on the table presentation, sets out the dinnerware and then kills it.
My understanding from speaking to these guys directly is that the older gents were all about killing quickly, efficiently and smartly so that the next con was actually in a position to die before they were even on the menu. Part of this process, I've discovered, is a certain patience with the a/c while managing their aggression...and a philosophy that forces them to kill very, very quickly. I don't see that in anyone flying right now except one:
Quendi. Haven't seen him in while but I can say this...no one has ever killed me that quick in Spits. I wonder who that really was...lol
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Bighorn is bovidae on Marks list
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yeah, you did tool... :neener: who spent a lot of time getting you up to par racking the pony around before passing you off to the spit and hog weenies in the BKs and 109 weenies in the Muppets? :noid
I'd say you and wldthing were the two I've spent the most time with... a lot of others, sure. It was nice to see and assist in the progression and bump up to the higher levels of fighting.
I don't know how a levi/bruv matchup would end, but I'd be putting my money on levi without hesitation.
For Midway:
And just to put an end to this... no one can claim any sort of pwnage unless it's in the DA, same plane(s) - that's when you remove the variable of the machine and environment and it comes down to the person behind the stick (well, discounting technical factors like pc, connex, etc, lol, I'm kidding, somewhat.) There are other levels of pwnage, mixed planes, strength vs strength, etc, but again it's has to be 1 v 1 in the DA, even if no alt cap agreed on etc.. the MA is just too random to proclaim any sort of pwnage that has any relevant meaning.
If you take a look at the perceived top dogfighters, you'll find that many of them have experience in a variety of rides - look at the Dueling Ladder for example.
You also have the perceived top "killers" who if they aren't considered a dogfighter, generally specialize in one or two planes. Ack-Ack for example... he's a killer and tough and knows what he's doing, but he's not really considered a dogfighter per se... follow?
You refuse to be a dogfighter. And you fail at being a killer. You're stuck Midway.
Bruv pwns in the MA often and with a degree of severity and awesomeness few can match. :rock
Shane, you Sir, are wrong when you say pwnage can only be claimed in the DA. In the MA, I have pwned you and Bruv has pwned me, both with substantial frequency and certainty. Bruv having pwned me 100% of the time in 1v1s. You, however, not as much, as you well know. :)
Most pilots know when they are being pwned or laying said pwnage upon an enemy in the MA. I certainly do, but you have difficulty accepting it and want to deny/smoke screen it with definitions. :ahand
Apparently we must also agree to disagree on the ability to claim pwnage in the MA. :old:
But I know I'm right, as do others, with respect to the above. :old:
One day, you'll agree when you open your mind. :old:
:salute :rock
:D
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Bighorn is bovidae on Marks list
Ahhh....then I stand corrected.
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My my my...and youre all forgetting one old timer that still rears his head from time to time....that with a week or so of up-time (cuz I've fought him and most of you) could handle anyone in the game....
Bighorn. Absolutely amazing. Able to play with his food before he filets it, prepares it, decides on the table presentation, sets out the dinnerware and then kills it.
My understanding from speaking to these guys directly is that the older gents were all about killing quickly, efficiently and smartly so that the next con was actually in a position to die before they were even on the menu. Part of this process, I've discovered, is a certain patience with the a/c while managing their aggression...and a philosophy that forces them to kill very, very quickly. I don't see that in anyone flying right now except one:
Quendi. Haven't seen him in while but I can say this...no one has ever killed me that quick in Spits. I wonder who that really was...lol
I believe Quendi was SunsFan.
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I believe Quendi was SunsFan.
Uh, no. I fought Suns in the dueling bracket and chose Spit IX's. He lost.
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Yup, I forgot one...
...and Shane, who I am still a big fan of... when I started, the call would go out on country that Shane was in the area in his la7 and many of us would go out to find him... upon arriving, it was not uncommon to find him stall fighting some of what was left of the first 6 or so fellas that went after him before we showed up... then, when he finally went down, the much anticipated comment on ch200.... you slobberdonkeys arent bad 8 vs 1! It wasn't slobberdonkeys though, what the hell was it you used to say?
I'll have to take your word for it since I wasn't there and what I did see of him for many tours recently... well... 35%+ in simple 1v1s.... nuff said. :)
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Uh, no. I fought Suns in the dueling bracket and chose Spit IX's. He lost.
Quendian. I called him Sunsfan to piss him off since he's just another muppet hating shade. I love that it stuck. :lol
He was decent but no where near Bighorn.
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Quendian. I called him Sunsfan to piss him off since he's just another muppet hating shade. I love that it stuck. :lol
He was decent but no where near Bighorn.
Two different names Scotch...one was Quendi and the other was Quendian. There was much speculation that it was Levi given his avatar (if you look up Quendi) and the tempo of the fights he and I had were twice the speed at which I'd ever fought and was unbelievably aggressive in the a/c. Haven't fought someone like him before and not one close since. I bugged Grizz for a month to find out who the guy was, lmao!
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:headscratch:Its my understanding that Quendi was an old BK that hasn't flown in years. Quendian is the one in KOTH etc. Until October I had only been home for about 5 weeks this year, so chances are good that I missed it and am wrong.
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:headscratch: Its my understanding that Quendi was an old BK that hasn't flown in years. Quendian is the one in KOTH etc. Until October I had only been home for about 5 weeks this year, so chances are good that I missed it and am wrong.
Would the real Quendi please stand up. :rock
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Funny how the thread has gone from a discussion about a plane to one of ego vs ego. Anyone who actually cares about that kind of thing should really step away form keyboard and get some sun.
Score,stats,reputation,persona,ego etc only person who cares about any of it is you.
<S>...-Gixer
:aok
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Would pay $15 extra to watch Levy vs Bruv fights to see proof of said pudding... and to have a go at him myself.
:)
I don't know you, but you have no chance. None. Sorry.
Levi has codes!!!!
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:rolleyes: codes
Levi was awesome, I have films of him and he is a fighter pilot hero of mine based on those films. An awesome shot. I would just like to experience his skills first hand. :frown:
:salute FPH Leviathn :rock
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Bruv pwns in the MA often and with a degree of severity and awesomeness few can match. :rock
Shane, you Sir, are wrong when you say pwnage can only be claimed in the DA. In the MA, I have pwned you and Bruv has pwned me, both with substantial frequency and certainty. Bruv having pwned me 100% of the time in 1v1s. You, however, not as much, as you well know. :)
Most pilots know when they are being pwned or laying said pwnage upon an enemy in the MA. I certainly do, but you have difficulty accepting it and want to deny/smoke screen it with definitions. :ahand
Apparently we must also agree to disagree on the ability to claim pwnage in the MA. :old:
But I know I'm right, as do others, with respect to the above. :old:
One day, you'll agree when you open your mind. :old:
:salute :rock
:D
I've encountered Bruv *twice* in the MA. Both times I shot him down. I guess I pwnd him. He has no MA kills on me. This is more than "significant" - it's totality. According to your logic, anyway.
Bow Down! :joystick:
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I've encountered Bruv *twice* in the MA. Both times I shot him down. I guess I pwnd him. He has no MA kills on me. This is more than "significant" - it's totality. According to your logic, anyway.
Bow Down! :joystick:
What, two picks? :rolleyes:
Let's drop him in this as I know how good he is... and I know how good you are. :)
Now, way more than nuffs been said on this and back to the original topic at hand. :bhead
Ponies are easy kills for Spitfires in 1v1s... ergo they tend to run or BnZ with buds only. A lone BnZ'ing pony also being an easy kill. :joystick:
I've said my piece on the topic. :salute :bolt:
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You can go through the stats like I did, yeah, I did, just to be sure. I actually only thought it was once. The one I recall was me being above in a bounce situation on his solo 109. He knew I was there and tried an evasive that I generally expect. It was over quick and my first thought was, "oh, that's bruv?" :headscratch: I may even have film.
The second one I don't remember, probably because the first was so unremarkable. :neener:
The environment cannot be removed, right? It's a conflict of your own logic when you try to discount them as being "likely picks." At least was 1 v 1. 1 - 0.
Simple numbers. 2 - 0, 1 - 0, take your pick. Totality of pwnage, Midway style, well except I didn't HO him. :noid
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You can go through the stats like I did, yeah, I did, just to be sure. I actually only thought it was once. The one I recall was me being above in a bounce situation on his solo 109. He knew I was there and tried an evasive that I generally expect. It was over quick and my first thought was, "oh, that's bruv?" :headscratch: I may even have film.
The second one I don't remember, probably because the first was so unremarkable. :neener:
The environment cannot be removed, right? It's a conflict of your own logic when you try to discount them as being "likely picks." At least was 1 v 1. 1 - 0.
Simple numbers. 2 - 0, 1 - 0, take your pick. Totality of pwnage, Midway style, well except I didn't HO him. :noid
You know better than that and you're smarter than this shows, I think.. :rolleyes:
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You know better than that and you're smarter than this shows, I think.. :rolleyes:
Of course I do and I am! But then I'm also just mirroring your logic...
See where this is going? :noid
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Of course I do and I am! But then I'm also just mirroring your logic...
See where this is going? :noid
:rolleyes:
Your mirror is cracked then and distorting my logic... which you should know after all the MA 1v1s we've had.
Back to the topic at hand. :old:
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deleted as it didn't add anything of value to the various topics in the thread
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Uh, no. I fought Suns in the dueling bracket and chose Spit IX's. He lost.
:headscratch: I thought you were no longer speaking to me, funnyman? Moment(s) of weakness? :huh
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343627.msg4537629.html#msg4537629 :rolleyes:
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Midwho you're an annoying twit. Why must you be an annoying twit? We get tired of your annoying twitery. Do us all a favor and stop being an annoying twit. You annoying twit.
:rolleyes: The pain of my having just pwned you in the MA is affecting you, huh?
This is not the topic of this thread. Please start a new one, out of respect to the OP's intent, if you feel the need to disparage me incorrectly. :bhead
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:rolleyes: The pain of my having just pwned you in the MA is affecting you, huh?
This is not the topic of this thread. Please start a new one, out of respect to the OP's intent, if you feel the need to disparage me incorrectly. :bhead
:lol you or anybody else for that matter, shooting me down in a video game is the very last of my worries pal. I'm not he one that makes an arse out of myself day in and day out trying to gain some kind of acceptance, greatness or an awesome reputation in an online video game, such as you do. You have issues little man.
Do you see me gloat and brag about me kicking your arse 3 or 4 times last night? (In a 51 too I might add.) NO! You know why son? Because I unlike you realize that this is just a game and I don't seek acceptance, fame, pats on the back and uberness. I do that offline at home with my friends and family.
I also will say that when you did shot me down tonight, I saluted you like a man...and when asked by fellow countrymen if you HOed me, told the truth and said no. You actually tried to avoid it. But last night when I killed you on several occasions you didn't have the manners to salute in kind. That in itself speaks volumes on how we differ when this game is concerned. You strike me as a childish kid who's whole life revolves around a video game.
I guess you're just a product of your generation though and can't help it. You want so desperately to be somebody on the internet, pwning bad guys, kicking butt and being the hero. But let me clue you in tiger. You better straighten up and get a life outside of this fantasy world you live in or you'll be eating a steady diet of government cheese and "living in a van down by the river"!
Peace out pimple face.
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:lol you or anybody else for that matter, shooting me down in a video game is the very last of my worries pal. I'm not he one that makes an arse out of myself day in and day out trying to gain some kind of acceptance, greatness or an awesome reputation in an online video game, such as you do. You have issues little man.
Do you see me gloat and brag about me kicking your arse 3 or 4 times last night? (In a 51 too I might add.) NO! You know why son? Because I unlike you realize that this is just a game and I don't seek acceptance, fame, pats on the back and uberness. I do that offline at home with my friends and family.
I also will say that when you did shot me down tonight, I saluted you like a man...and when asked by fellow countrymen if you HOed me, told the truth and said no. You actually tried to avoid it. But last night when I killed you on several occasions you didn't have the manners to salute in kind. That in itself speaks volumes on how we differ when this game is concerned. You strike me as a childish kid who's whole life revolves around a video game.
I guess you're just a product of your generation though and can't help it. You want so desperately to be somebody on the internet, pwning bad guys, kicking butt and being the hero. But let me clue you in tiger. You better straighten up and get a life outside of this fantasy world you live in or you'll be eating a steady diet of government cheese and "living in a van down by the river"!
Peace out pimple face.
:rolleyes:
Impossible to salute back if I'm muted for eight days including yesterday, but I'll offer you the return salutes I couldn't give you yesterday here now: :salute :salute :salute
Today being my first day unmuted. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,342264.msg4535973.html#msg4535973
Although, must names be called? :headscratch:
:)
PS: I checked the mirror. No pimples here, at least none that I noticed. :cheers:
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No Midway names don't have to be called but I'm about sick of your talk about pwning me, him, them, they.......WHO GIVES A RATS ARSE! Do you know how many times those guys like skyrock, Shane, your beloved Bruv ..so on and so forth have been pwned over the years?! 100s at least. It's just silly how you make a big deal out of shooting some pixels on a screen as if it really makes you somehow important. Grow up for Gods sake and quit acting and talking like a stupid child.
I've said all along I hate kids in this game. Although, I must admit most I've met in this community have been damn good people. But you....you are the exact example of why I dislike todays internet youth. You're rude, a troll, talk to much, and you think you're gods gift to internet entertainment. You're the bestest that ever logged in and everyone needs to know about it. What you've yet to figure out is 90% of us could care less about your skillz you have or don't have. We're here to enjoy the company of our squaddies and friends we've acquired over the years and dream of flying WW2 birds without the mouths of children telling us how bad arse they are. Especially when the only damned plane they have the balls to fly is a Spitfire.
You tried a 38 but that lasted about as long as a turd in the punch bowl because that plane would take some effort to learn. Like most of your kind, you want to be a legend right out of the box with no seat time what so ever. THIS IS WHY YOU ONLY FLY A SPITFIRE. If HTC took Spitfires out of the game your arse would be quitting by sundown, because you'd be getting towered before you ever got out of the radar ring. You know I know it we all know it. :mad:
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No Midway names don't have to be called but I'm about sick of your talk about pwning me, him, them, they.......WHO GIVES A RATS ARSE! Do you know how many times those guys like skyrock, Shane, your beloved Bruv ..so on and so forth have been pwned over the years?! 100s at least. It's just silly how you make a big deal out of shooting some pixels on a screen as if it really makes you somehow important. Grow up for Gods sake and quit acting and talking like a stupid child.
I've said all along I hate kids in this game. Although, I must admit most I've met in this community have been damn good people. But you....you are the exact example of why I dislike todays internet youth. You're rude, a troll, talk to much, and you think you're gods gift to internet entertainment. You're the bestest that ever logged in and everyone needs to know about it. What you've yet to figure out is 90% of us could care less about your skillz you have or don't have. We're here to enjoy the company of our squaddies and friends we've acquired over the years and dream of flying WW2 birds without the mouths of children telling us how bad arse they are.
Considering that if you had not started calling me names (twit) out of the blue a few posts ago and completely unrelated to the OP, we would not be having this conversation... whom is being the less mature one at the moment? :headscratch:
I don't believe I said anything to you necessitating your name calling post, and thought it may have been the result of the MA fight we just had... a common occurrence with many other pilots when I pwn them and they be hating it. :furious
I'm glad you're not like that. Good to know. Let's have some more good fights then and leave the name calling to others, huh? :aok
:salute :rock
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What, two picks? :rolleyes:
Let's drop him in this as I know how good he is... and I know how good you are. :)
Shane was owning good sticks when Bruv was still and ack hugger... yes, I know it hurts, but when I first met bruv, he was an ack weenie, would not fight at all... so step down midtwit, nobody who has seen shane fight and seen you fight believes you "pwned" him in any sense of the word... we've seen your definition of "pwn" and you're clueless! :aok
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You can go through the stats like I did, yeah, I did, just to be sure. I actually only thought it was once. The one I recall was me being above in a bounce situation on his solo 109. He knew I was there and tried an evasive that I generally expect. It was over quick and my first thought was, "oh, that's bruv?" :headscratch: I may even have film.
The second one I don't remember, probably because the first was so unremarkable. :neener:
The environment cannot be removed, right? It's a conflict of your own logic when you try to discount them as being "likely picks." At least was 1 v 1. 1 - 0.
Simple numbers. 2 - 0, 1 - 0, take your pick. Totality of pwnage, Midway style, well except I didn't HO him. :noid
Actually this post is a form of ownage! :rofl
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You're annoying Midway. plain and simple. The chest thumping don't cut it with me. You don't see the majority of this community doing that do you? I'm always willing for a good dogfight, just check the ego at the door. A little friendly razzing is one thing, but your constant pwn this and pwd that gets old quick and no one likes a bragger. You change your attitude towards your approach to this game and the folks in it, and you'll be Aokay in my book. Until that times comes you'll just be a plain annoying kid with visions of grandeur to me.
Yes SkyRock is a chest thumping bragger but I overlook him as he is clinically insane.
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p-51 is a great airplane. It takes some time to master and one can be very successful dog fighting with it. Yes, I mean turn and burn with it. There have been some great sticks through the annals of AH history who have flown it with great success. While I am not one of them nor do I know how, it has been done. The notion that it is good for pick-and-run tactics is BS and exemplifies the laziness/ignorance of the pilot.
THAT BEING SAID, the way it is flown gives it a bad name, and that is a shame.
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heh he said 'annals'...
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heh he said 'annals'...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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heh he said 'annals'...
:rofl :rofl :lol
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What, two picks? :rolleyes:
Let's drop him in this as I know how good he is... and I know how good you are. :)
Now, way more than nuffs been said on this and back to the original topic at hand. :bhead
Staying on part of the erroneous perception portion of this thread...
I was looking for some p-51 films from when I played last. Guess what? I stumbled upon some films of myself and Bruv in the DA - which I recall now. He was in MA, asked if anyone wanted to DA, I said sure. There was no ego involved, no grudge, just two guys wanting to spend some time in the DA. Probably some curiousity on my part to see what he "had" and some on his part when he saw it was me who took up his offer.
We flew 10 fights: 109g14, spit9x3, ki-61, yak9u, f6fx2 and p47mx2
They were fun fights.
What do you think the results were? Was pwnage involved?
I'll post the zip file with all the films after you answer. :aok There are a few things to learn from the films. Perhaps someone like batfink will step up and break 'em down - I'm too lazy. :old:
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Rogent was the hardest P51 Driver I ever came across, with Alfamega 2nd.
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Now which one is Midway as he pwns,pawnage,ownz all of us. :lol
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Parties_zpsc498d6f2.jpg)
<S>...-Gixer
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Staying on part of the erroneous perception portion of this thread...
I was looking for some p-51 films from when I played last. Guess what? I stumbled upon some films of myself and Bruv in the DA - which I recall now. He was in MA, asked if anyone wanted to DA, I said sure. There was no ego involved, no grudge, just two guys wanting to spend some time in the DA. Probably some curiousity on my part to see what he "had" and some on his part when he saw it was me who took up his offer.
We flew 10 fights: 109g14, spit9x3, ki-61, yak9u, f6fx2 and p47mx2
They were fun fights.
What do you think the results were? Was pwnage involved?
I'll post the zip file with all the films after you answer. :aok There are a few things to learn from the films. Perhaps someone like batfink will step up and break 'em down - I'm too lazy. :old:
Your old films can not change the fact that I can tell how good someone is by fighting them dozens of, and in the case of the two of you well over a hundred, times each. There is zero doubt in my mind based on first hand experience as to your fighting prowess inferiority to the double TOC champion. :rock
No doubt, zero, none, nada, nil. :aok
After all, I downed you, by your own admission, over a third of the time myself. :ahand
I have no such chance with Bruv... yet. I am but a toy to the likes of Bruv, Grizz, and pervert. :cry :confused:
Now just accept facts and truth and that I'm right... as usual... m'kay? You may :cry with me if that helps you accept said truth. :)
And quit making me re-splain facts over and over to you... this thread's topic is ponies. :bhead
...
Spit9 v Spit9: 13 - 11
...
Heck, you and I being nearly equal in Spitfire MK IXs ought to tell you that I have the skills to know what I'm talking about. :)
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You're annoying Midway. plain and simple. The chest thumping don't cut it with me. You don't see the majority of this community doing that do you? I'm always willing for a good dogfight, just check the ego at the door. A little friendly razzing is one thing, but your constant pwn this and pwd that gets old quick and no one likes a bragger. You change your attitude towards your approach to this game and the folks in it, and you'll be Aokay in my book. Until that times comes you'll just be a plain annoying kid with visions of grandeur to me.
Yes SkyRock is a chest thumping bragger but I overlook him as he is clinically insane.
I agree, that is why he is "ignored" here (he never says anything worth wile ) and "squelched" as soon as I see he's on in the game. As a cartoon pilot he's fun to fly against as long as he refrains from HOin, but it is the non-stop belittlement of everyone that I won't tolerate.
I don't know if he is a "pimply faced kid" or not, but I do know that if he acted like he does on the internet around here he would be a "bruised faced kid". Real people just don't put up with that kind of dis-respect and stupidity.
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First of all, who made the rule that in order to be a good 51 jockey you have to fight a certain way? Saying, "oh the 51 guy is good until he loses the advantage, then extends", is like saying the Brewster or Sptfire pilot is good until he loses the advantage, then he turns! :bhead I just don't get that argument.
This
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Your old films can not change the fact that I can tell how good someone is by fighting them dozens of, and in the case of the two of you well over a hundred, times each. There is zero doubt in my mind based on first hand experience as to your fighting prowess inferiority to the double TOC champion. :rock
No doubt, zero, none, nada, nil. :aok
After all, I downed you, by your own admission, over a third of the time myself. :ahand
I have no such chance with Bruv... yet. I am but a toy to the likes of Bruv, Grizz, and pervert. :cry :confused:
Now just accept facts and truth and that I'm right... as usual... m'kay? You may :cry with me if that helps you accept said truth. :)
And quit making me re-splain facts over and over to you... this thread's topic is ponies. :bhead
These aren't "old" films by any means... they happened in dec/jan 2011/12 right near the end of my latest in-game time.
In the MA bruv has had no chance with me. You have - you got your licks (but you still primarily suck.) The fact you have no success vs some players indicates that a) it's all in your head in conjunction with b) you don't currently possess the skills/talent.
This is where you make me :rolleyes: :bhead People keep offering you the opportunity and suggestions on how to acquire said skills (you'tre still lacking on the talent part) that will allow you to get your licks in on them with less sucking involved.
Fine, do it the hard way, your way, but by the time you acquire those mad skillz, Bruv will most likely have long moved on to another game and will just be lurking on the BBS watching in amusement the latest crop of players who allowed you in their heads.
You really should ask me to post the films for you. You might miss this part, tho' - when I won, I won quick. A substantial number of my deaths only occurred after an extended scissors, teh outcome of which might have been different if I had rudder pedals. Youll see me ask, "you using stall limiter?" in one of the early films because I wasn't seeing the usual slow speed wobbles that I deal with and often see others as well. He said no, of course. Then I figured out and asked, pedals? Yep.
Those pedals are what is getting you killed so quickly when you face Bruv and possibly Debrody if he has pedals, if not, then whatever he uses he has good rudder conrol.
Huh? :headscratch:
That mystery move? It's nothing more that a finely honed and timed rudder kick at the top of a yo-yo, scissors or overshoot sometimes accompanied by a tail-slide. A very common move you see with 109's in particular and with certain pilots in certain planes - lepape is a good example of the extreme, and grizz does it very well without the blantant tailslide.
What you're seeing is their plane in your up (or up/back)-right/left view, nose away as you're closing, and as you lose e or position (from an overshoot), that rudder kick gets them right on you and dead. Hard to defend if you're not expecting it. Hard even if you are becuase it requires a gamble. I don't generally use that move much because no pedals and using a twisty for rudder requires a scaling/damping setting on my end that is detrimental to my overall flying. I don't want to be a "one-trick pony" <--- on topic!! At times I have called both Bruv (in those DA films) and Joach1m out for relying on that move too much.
I'll save you a bit of time it was 4-6 in Bruv's favor which makes us a confirmed 6-6 overall MA/DA - evened up. Now the question is, how do you think the wins were distributed across that planeset?
Does bruv have better aim than me? You bet! Does he fly well in crowds, especially with others? You bet! Can he handle himself 1 v 1? Sure. I'd put him up there in my personal ranking, but I have also experienced better pilots. Bear in mind, my passion in '08 and '11 was nowhere near the level when I was in my "prime." I also flew a lot more laidback in terms of k/h. I still flew aggressive, I just didn't hang around big furballs very much (gfx card struggles - I'm always behind the curve, lol, which is why I've been a lone-wolf on the edges.)
One can make the argument that Bruv is still in his "prime" and the fact that I did as well against him is saying something. My weight of experience vs "top sticks" far outweighs yours.
I'm not knocking bruv here - he's very good. Nor am I trying to knock him off the pedestal you've placed him - I am trying to show you that perceptions are nothing, and everything.
<edit to add link to compressed file with the 10 films.>
http://www.mediafire.com/?2uw8nuwp5umvj44
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First of all, who made the rule that in order to be a good 51 jockey you have to fight a certain way? Saying, "oh the 51 guy is good until he loses the advantage, then extends", is like saying the Brewster or Sptfire pilot is good until he loses the advantage, then he turns! :bhead I just don't get that argument.
This
This
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... cut for brevity...
This is where you make me :rolleyes: :bhead People keep offering you the opportunity and suggestions on how to acquire said skills (you'tre still lacking on the talent part) that will allow you to get your licks in on them with less sucking...
Ok, most of this seems well reasoned except your understatement of the double TOC winner's skills, but I understand you and I have different experiences and points of view on it. I accept that. :salute
Debrody flies with a mouse, so rudder pedal aren't why he too can do his "trick" on me 20 times in 2 days. With Bruv, it is in fact skill, whether he has pedals or not. I'm certain of that.
Shane, I have asked and been helped by many, but not you very much because you came across as too braggidy on ch200..."nice 8v1", "you castratti", "awesomesauce", etc when I know I have pwned you with substantial frequency as also evidenced with your frequent subsequent response of "meh". Just being honest here. :)
There are two main reason I don't want to spend time with Bruv in the DA/TA, first, the cost (no more ch200) is too high, as I often feel the need to respond to inaccuracies presented regarding me on ch200 (or else I'd let these disparagements/inaccuracies gain credibility with my silence). One must defend their honour, when required, or else appear dishonoured. I also don't want Bruv to feel like I extorted help from him by my over-communicating on ch200 requiring him to come to the aid of the community. Plus, on occasion, it's just fun to say a few words, you know. :devil
Second, and much more importantly, I am not worthy to have the current most awesome pilot in Aces High teach me anything since I seem to have plateaued and have been incapable of learning more after hundreds of TA/DA sessions with Grizz, Pervert, Fester, and batfinkV, among others. I don't want to waste their time or effort any more since I respect them way too much. It would, frankly, embarrass me to do that... kind of like a high school Algebra I student sitting in Stanford's Differential Equations class pretending to understand what's being drawn on the board. :confused: :headscratch: :confused: :headscratch: :confused: :confused:
I need to spend more time in purgatory attending the school of hard knocks :bhead and have some light bulbs turn on before I would request or enthusiastically accept a sit down with the best. :frown:
In the words of a wise and well known gun fighting hero "A man's got to know his limitations." :old:
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LOL at mentioning rocky and expert in the same sentence.
High perch, dive, miss, engage warp, run away all the way back to friendly ack, turn around, engage warp, make HO, land.
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Ok, most of this seems well reasoned except your understatement of the double TOC winner's skills, but I understand you and I have different experiences and points of view on it. I accept that. :salute
Shane, I have asked and been helped by many, but not you very much because you came across as too braggidy on ch200..."nice 8v1", "you castratti", "awesomesauce", etc when I know I have pwned you with substantial frequency as also evidenced with your frequent subsequent response of "meh". Just being honest here. :)
There are two main reason I don't want to spend time with Bruv in the DA/TA, first, the cost (no more ch200) is too high, as I often feel the need to respond to inaccuracies presented regarding me on ch200 (or else I'd let these disparagements/inaccuracies gain credibility with my silence). One must defend their honour, when required, or else appear dishonoured. Plus, on occasion, it's just fun to say a few words, you know. :devil
Second, and much more importantly, I am not worthy to have the current most awesome pilot in Aces High teach me anything since I seem to have plateaued and have been incapable of learning more after hundreds of TA/DA sessions with Grizz, Pervert, Fester, and batfinkV, among others. I don't want to waste their time or effort any more since I respect them way too much. It would, frankly, embarrass me to do that... kind of like a high school Algebra I student sitting in Stanford's differential equations class pretending to understand what's being drawn on the board. :confused: :headscratch: :confused: :headscratch: :confused: :confused:
I need to spend more time in purgatory attending the school of hard knocks :bhead and have some light bulbs turn on before I would request or enthusiastically accept a sit down with the best. :frown:
You underscore the point about my screening system very well. :aok
You're saying you've spent "hundreds of TA/DA sessions" with some very good sticks and yet came away with very little? That's honest.
Ok. Peter Principle. Stuck on suck. Or just maybe you didn't find the right teacher who could get thru to you?
<I never bothered with ToC or KoTH but beyond staying at a holiday inn express last night, I also particpated in one of the Duel Brackets and for a while the Duel Ladder in DFC. I think through my lenghthy experience with AH I have a good sense for where people fall on the bell curve.>
It's not the light bulb(s) you're needing. Your light is on, but the electrical impulses powering it are insufficient. You need to find someone who can install a dimmer switch and gradually bring you up to full wattage instead of hoping that you can turn a 25w into a 150w on your own. There are skillsets that are not directly related to 1 v 1 that do help in 1 v 1's, and vice-versa, and in teh absence of natural talent, skills are something you need to work on.
Or stay in your little box.
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You underscore the point about my screening system very well. :aok
You're saying you've spent "hundreds of TA/DA sessions" with some very good sticks and yet came away with very little? That's honest.
Ok. Peter Principle. Stuck on suck. Or just maybe you didn't find the right teacher who could get thru to you?
<I never bothered with ToC or KoTH but beyond staying at a holiday inn express last night, I also particpated in one of the Duel Brackets and for a while the Duel Ladder in DFC. I think through my lenghthy experience with AH I have a good sense for where people fall on the bell curve.>
It's not the light bulb(s) you're needing. Your light is on, but the electrical impulses powering it are insufficient. You need to find someone who can install a dimmer switch and gradually bring you up to full wattage instead of hoping that you can turn a 25w into a 150w on your own. There are skillsets that are not directly related to 1 v 1 that do help in 1 v 1's, and vice-versa, and in teh absence of natural talent, skills are something you need to work on.
Or stay in your little box.
Given that I can down you quite often (you've admitted to 35%+) and if I were not to make my silly mistakes, I could likely increase that to 90%, how much, with all due respect, can you really teach me? I know my mistakes with you because I know when I lose, why I lost. Again, just being direct and honest with you, no disrespect intended. :salute
With Bruv, Grizz, Pervert, Fester, Debrody, and, unfortunately, even Changeup, etc.. I don't know and can not comprehend, even when I'm told it's angles and E management, why I lose to them. I am simply just confused afterwards and awed. :confused: :O :confused: :confused:
That is not the case with you. I know why I lose. I just need to not make my silly mistakes with you and pwnage would be complete with far more than substantial frequency. :ahand
Remember, we are nearly equal in Spifire MK IXs per --> your <-- analysis. :aok
Again, just being open, honest, sincere, and direct. Hopefully you can take it that way. :) :salute
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Given that I can down you quite often (you've admitted to 35%+) and if I were not to make my silly mistakes, I could likely increase that to 90% of the time, how much, with all due respect, can you really teach me? I know my mistakes with you because I know when I lose, why I lost. Again, just being direct and honest with you, no disrespect intended. :salute
Then you cannot claim or aspire to be considered a student. You have no idea of the things I might be able to pass along to you because you have put me in a little box, right next to yours.
With Bruv, Grizz, Pervert, Debrody, and, unfortunately, even Changeup, etc.. I don't know why and can not comprehend, even when I'm told it's angles and E management, why I lose to them. I am simply just confused afterwards and awed. :confused: :O :confused: :confused:
I gave you clues in prior replies. Did you see them? The mere fact I can take Bruv, Grizz etc from an equal footing should imply something, shouldn't it? Perhaps no one has shown you why *you* lost as opposed to why they won?
That is not the case with you. I know why I lose. I just need to not make my silly mistakes with you and pwnage would be complete with far more than substantial frequency. :ahand
You haven't even experienced a fraction of what I am capable of. Ask any one of those who can beat me on a more or less regular basis if I'm ever an easy kill. Why would I want to beat you down when I see a glimmer of promise? Somewhat like batfink, I elevate my game as my opponent rises. You started looking forwards to our encounters because you felt you had a chance, and indeed you did earn some of your kills, a substantial portion, even, if you want to look at it that way.
Again, just being open, honest, sincere, and direct. Hopefully you can take it that way. :) :salute
Most repies in red/bold above.
I never take anything personally. :aok
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Most repies in red/bold above.
I never take anything personally. :aok
To your three red comments.
(1) Your current skills causing you to lose to me often and consecutively have you in the box next to me. Beat me 9 out of ten and I'll let you out. :)
(2) It should and does, that is true. Problem is I can't comprehend it ... yet. :bhead :confused:
(3) Agreed... I was not here when you were at your best. I only saw you when you returned from, I suspect, the first to nearly the last day. All very memorable indeed. :salute :rock
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LOL at mentioning rocky and expert in the same sentence.
High perch, dive, miss, engage warp, run away all the way back to friendly ack, turn around, engage warp, make HO, land.
:rofl :aok
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Wow. This thread was hijacked sooo long ago.
Any P51 pilots that consistently dominate turny birds? No, likely not. The 51 just doesnt have the roll rate/turn radius to compete with an evenly matched pilot in a turny bird consistently, unless the 51 plays the E game and keeps the turny bird defensive by BNZing him, but that doesn't really constitute fighting a turny bird 'on their level' so I wouldn't count it.
People get lucky though, and some of those pilots are likely to be scrubs and not able to compete with a good 51 pilot who knows the ins and outs of ACM, so it happens. Good pilots will make mistakes too and it can happen then, but no I wouldn't say consistently.
I've had some great fights with spits and f4u's in my Pony. The best fight I have ever had in aces high was my Delta against an F4u-D just last month. The f4u caught me at a speed and alt disadvantage. It started with a bnz style of fighting and digressed into a fully flaps stall fight. Logic says at that point a pony will no doubt succumb to the f4u in a fully flapped stall fight, but in the end I managed to kill the F4u, that is after being pilot wounded and losing my rudder. BUT this pilot (afaik) wasn't a highly skilled F4u pilot. He knew his plane but I wouldnt call him an expert. Had it been I wouldn't have survived the encounter. no way.
And this month has just been utter crap for me. I feel like im dying every sortie to stupid things I could normally avoid. Too long of a holiday break I guess :rolleyes: I swear they changed something with the pony in the last update :noid
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Wow. This thread was hijacked sooo long ago.
lol, no doubt.
I actually fought you shortly after another we communicated in another thread regarding 51's and turning, the one where I posted a film of a 51D vs a c202.
Anyways, in our fight, I was in a 38, and you in a 51, and you handled the 51 well. :)
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lol, no doubt.
I actually fought you shortly after another we communicated in another thread regarding 51's and turning, the one where I posted a film of a 51D vs a c202.
Anyways, in our fight, I was in a 38, and you in a 51, and you handled the 51 well. :)
Ah I didn't even realize it! You got the kill on me I see, I hope it was a good fight at least, I don't remember what happened. :salute
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I hope Shane goes to the next canyon furball. I want to shoot him in the arse. :joystick:
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Ah I didn't even realize it! You got the kill on me I see, I hope it was a good fight at least, I don't remember what happened. :salute
Yep, it was a nice fight. I had to work for the kill. It was over a high alt base. I remembered the fight because it was you, and it was literally within days after conversing in the other thread. :salute
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This might be the biggest misconception in the game.
There is a good deal more to air combat than turning your airplane.
Eric Hartmann, of WWII Germany with the largest amount of kills, ever, said most of the guys he shot down didn't even know he was there. He fired so close that often his own plane was damaged from exploding debris. ACM - B n Z - Turn and Burn its matters not... its matters when you are still up and he is in the tower. My dad once told me, when you get in a fight, you have a choice... do you want to win or lose. After you make the choice to win, you use every tool in your toolbox to ensure that, never fight the other guys fight... make it yours and keep every advantage you can. The only kind of "ACM" that I feel are not valid are the "score hound", "pick" and "run" types. IMHO
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Well, I'm just getting back into the game, so I'm really rusty (Gyrthe). But using the handle "Shuckins" I fought Shane and Levi in the MA and the DA, and watched them against multiple cons and they are no joke. I fought Levi for the better part of an hour one night in the DA with the following results: co-alt or e....he had me in two moves; with alt advantage and superior e, he had me in three...or four if I was really on my toes. It didn't matter what I flew.....I was owned quickly and surely. There was never any doubt as to the outcome.
<S> to the both of them.
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Enough sidebar jibber-jabba! :lol I'd like a BBS option to have an ACL (Access Control List) to inhibit those folk that take threads into personal ego-ville. Not every thread is about you dude. Please respect that (you know who I mean).
I am hijacking this email BACK to its orginal intent and purpose.
Summary
Wading through the emails on point, P-51s cannot and should not fight turny and short range fighters at their-own-game. This is generally unwise for the P-51 even if the opponent dislikes your choice in tactics. However, It is possible to take on those sort of fighters without BnZ tactics but must be done using the 51s unique strengths and a large dose of real ACM.
Thanks all for the very potent input to put this perception error to rest. :salute
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Eric Hartmann, of WWII Germany with the largest amount of kills, ever, said most of the guys he shot down didn't even know he was there. He fired so close that often his own plane was damaged from exploding debris. ACM - B n Z - Turn and Burn its matters not... its matters when you are still up and he is in the tower. My dad once told me, when you get in a fight, you have a choice... do you want to win or lose. After you make the choice to win, you use every tool in your toolbox to ensure that, never fight the other guys fight... make it yours and keep every advantage you can. The only kind of "ACM" that I feel are not valid are the "score hound", "pick" and "run" types. IMHO
Unfortunately, the smarter of the "anti-pony" movement don't dispute the facts concerning how things really were. They believe that this is a game. Can you believe it? A game and we don't really live here.
You'll hear things like "if your countryman asks for you to jump in and help with a 1v1 fight in the MA, he should be left to die because this might be the other guys rare serendipitous fight." "It was a once in a lifetime and you ruined it for everyone, even the guy losing it."
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I hope Shane goes to the next canyon furball. I want to shoot him in the arse. :joystick:
Shane has schooled me more times than I can count over the years. Be careful what you wish for. ;)
As for P-51 pilots.. They're like everyone else, just trying to get the most out of their airplane's strong points.
Some are just better at it than others.
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Shane has schooled me more times than I can count over the years. Be careful what you wish for. ;)
shhhhhh :uhoh That's my tactic to get some training in without having to actually ask for it. :D
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:lol
Actually he's always been willing to share what he knows.
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BigR is probably the best pony stick I've run across so far.
Nights ingame are limited but this ^^^ IMHO, he is one of the few I see down and dirty in the grass.
HL
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LOL at mentioning rocky and expert in the same sentence.
High perch, dive, miss, engage warp, run away all the way back to friendly ack, turn around, engage warp, make HO, land.
Its funny seeing someone who will only duel at 30,000ft make fun of how others fly.
ack-ack
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BigR is probably the best pony stick I've run across so far.
QFT.
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I'd like to chime in here if I may, although I haven't flown here for almost 2 years.
Re Shane: I echo what others have said here. One of the best sticks I have come across and one of the most willing to take you aside, if you ask him, and give you some schooling. He doesn't have superhuman flying abilities...he has remarkable SA and the ability to read Energy and predict where you will be. Most times he forces you to be where he needs you to be. He is very much a high speed chess player, and very good at it. If you get an opportunity to visit the DA with him...take it. I did and it was one of my fondest memories here...I learned a ton and found that his patience in that environment was boundless.
Enough said about Shane...other than if I find time to come back....I'm hunting. LOL.
Re Best pony Driver: I gotta say it was ASW. That guy was just dialed in with it. He would knife fight with it and most times come out on top. Sadly ASW moved on and doesn't fly here anymore either.
Re the erroneus perception of the P51: Even ASW knew its limits and flew it to its strengths. It's not normally a knife fight in a phone booth type aircraft (although sometimes you would think it was when you flew against him), but in the hands of someone who has some time behind them against someone who is not as experienced it can be deadly. This is why you see a Pony for instance seem to out turn a Spit. he (or she) isn't really out turning them, he (or she) is really just out thinking them and using the strengths of their aircraft.
There seems to be some lost knowledge in the last few years here about the different types of air to air fights. I'm not sure why.
There is a difference between a CO-E, similar aircraft, low altitude knife fight and an E- Fight.
For example....2 SpitV's...or a SpitV and a Zeke...or a SpitV and an Emil or Franz equals a knife fight in a phone booth.
Conversely, a P51, or FW190, or P38, or F6F, or F4U (although the F4U can, in the right hands turn you inside out...see TC or BigRat...two exceptional hawg drivers) will engage with the idea that it is a fight of Energy. In Energy fighting you use your A/C's power to convert your energy to either speed or altitude. Most times this means that you will enter the fight carrying a fair amount of speed or you enter it with a fair amount of altitude, and you will manage your speed and altitude to try to keep an advantage over your opponent.
So..Knife fighting is...you are both at the same altitude, you both have close to the same E and it really is a knife fight in a phone booth. Pick your ride carefully here.
So..E fighting is ... you may or may not be at the same altitude, you are both flying to use your E to get an advantage and hoping the other makes a mistake. Again, pick your AéC carefully here.
Or...You have an A/C more suited to a knife fight and your opponent has an A/C better suited to E fighting. Or Vice Versa
There are ways to deal with that...see your Trainers in the TA. They can help you...trust me, I used them alot.
Just a humble opinion.
Cheers,
RTR
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Enough sidebar jibber-jabba! :lol I'd like a BBS option to have an ACL (Access Control List) to inhibit those folk that take threads into personal ego-ville. Not every thread is about you dude. Please respect that (you know who I mean).
I am hijacking this email BACK to its orginal intent and purpose.
Summary
Wading through the emails on point, P-51s cannot and should not fight turny and short range fighters at their-own-game. This is generally unwise for the P-51 even if the opponent dislikes your choice in tactics. However, It is possible to take on those sort of fighters without BnZ tactics but must be done using the 51s unique strengths and a large dose of real ACM.
Thanks all for the very potent input to put this perception error to rest. :salute
bah! :old: Get off my lawn! I paid my dues in the pony. I was actually one of the relative few (same story today apparently) who would rack that pony around with anything from bnz, e-fighthing to tnb. But I got tired of chasing other ponies and faster planes and went to the lala. I was only in the pony because I got tired of chasing faster planes in a spit. :neener:
This is a game with no real repercussions, so I'm not quite willing to buy into the "unwise" thing. Get "stupid," learn the plane, then refine yourself into a killer in a pony where you're capable no matter the situation you find yourself in.
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I agree with Shane on this, I've flown the pony, and will fight in it, that goes for any plane, some I don't like to fight in, so I don't fly them... The pony has it's ability, but it really doesn't matter what plane you're in, it's just that some planes you don't have as much time to make the kill... this is true with the pony, if you take to long to hit the angle and down the opponent, and he's in a spit, or a hurri, then it wont turn out well... there is almost always and angle to attack that will give you a shot at winning a fight, even if it's a pony against a spit, but if someone doesn't have confidence or knowledge of how to accomplish that AoA, then they will usually say, "I didn't turn with you because your plane out turns mine"... I know better, but some of the fellas arent there yet, so they get a pass.... some have been playing longer than me and still say crap like that... I even heard a fella I was fighting the other night say, "This spit16 has no chance turning with your -1hog".... huh? Geesh, at 3/4 throttle in a flat turn, a spit will walk circles around any hog... I don't mind a pony pilot "falling" out of a fight and extending if he missed his best angle after a turn or two, it's exactly what I would do... but to see fellas doing the ole one pass runn, from alt, and excusing it by saying "it wont turn with your plane" is simply that... an excuse!
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Shane, SkyRock good points sirs.
For me my behavior has changed in understanding the P-51 a bit better. Last night I had a co-alt encounter with an N1k at 14k or so next to an enemy base. I made it a point to not only take on the N1k but duel to the death. All things being equal, I knew the N1k could out climb and out turn me. It was a longer duel than expected but the result was that I beat the N1k without going below 10k. In the past I was one of those BnZ then run ponies (I admit it). In this encounter I found I was able to setup better angles, use my flaps to keep my nose near a firing solution longer than I thought possible against a superior turning bird.
I almost feel like changing my squad name banner to "this 51 does not run". That is what I am committed to at this point with a P-51.
Thanks again for all the feedback in this thread. :salute
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Shane, SkyRock good points sirs.
For me my behavior has changed in understanding the P-51 a bit better. Last night I had a co-alt encounter with an N1k at 14k or so next to an enemy base. I made it a point to not only take on the N1k but duel to the death. All things being equal, I knew the N1k could out climb and out turn me. It was a longer duel than expected but the result was that I beat the N1k without going below 10k. In the past I was one of those BnZ then run ponies (I admit it). In this encounter I found I was able to setup better angles, use my flaps to keep my nose near a firing solution longer than I thought possible against a superior turning bird.
I almost feel like changing my squad name banner to "this 51 does not run". That is what I am committed to at this point with a P-51.
Thanks again for all the feedback in this thread. :salute
Just keep at it and you'll learn what works and what doesn't. Also, when you find that you have a tough time against a certain type of plane, fly that plane and learn what its strengths and weaknesses are. Knowing the opponent's ride is a big part of the fight, but it's not mentioned much.
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Slade keep at it, you tangling with the nik, live or die, is how you get good in the pony, obviously don't try to follow in a luftberry with one, but continuously aggressively attacking any and all planes you come across, live or die, is how you will learn the fastest on what to do, and what not to do... you will start to notice certain angles that give you a shot at winning each encounter no matter what plane it is... hell I've tangled with zeke's flown by good pilots in my -1hog and won, of course not all the time, but there are angles that give me a shot on a zeke... and luckily with a zeke, it doesn't take a whole lot of damage to down one... but one thing is for certain, you won't find out how to beat 'em, if you don't fight 'em! Good luck! :aok
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Slade keep at it, you tangling with the nik, live or die, is how you get good in the pony, obviously don't try to follow in a luftberry with one, but continuously aggressively attacking any and all planes you come across, live or die, is how you will learn the fastest on what to do, and what not to do... you will start to notice certain angles that give you a shot at winning each encounter no matter what plane it is... hell I've tangled with zeke's flown by good pilots in my -1hog and won, of course not all the time, but there are angles that give me a shot on a zeke... and luckily with a zeke, it doesn't take a whole lot of damage to down one... but one thing is for certain, you won't find out how to beat 'em, if you don't fight 'em! Good luck! :aok
"......you won't find out how to beat 'em, if you don't fight 'em"
great words of advice :aok
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I just remembered who it was that was a beast in the pony... DamnedRen... he was really good in a pony, actually he was good in alot of planes, but I fought him in ponies before and he knew how to dance that thing! Is he still playing?
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I didn;t fly the p-51 much my last time around. Searching for a suitable film showing how a pony can turn (altho' I kind of, well died...) but this gives you an idea.
http://www.mediafire.com/?g3b69o94ocuccc1#!
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What, two picks? :rolleyes:
wow, I lucked out and actually found the "picks" - both of "them."
I guess I kind of mis-remembered the one I thought I remembered - it wasn't 1 v 1 afterall. (And the second one should have been more on the "worth remembering side" - meh.
the first one: http://www.mediafire.com/?e7jpda5w6ho927v#!
the second one: http://www.mediafire.com/?so98852n11mfoe5#! watch for the rudderkick tailslide - how many can you count?
<did I mention I hate mediafire (for sucking in general) and photobucket (for stopping hosting mutlimedia)>
<edit: and in neither did he die quick.>