Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FLOOB on March 27, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
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Something that I'm seeing more and more often as the years pass. In one sortie I witnessed two pilots using flip-flop-I-hope-this-makes-me-invisible "maneuvers". They both have been playing aces high long enough to know better. It felt like a scene from COPS where they're chasing a shirtless meth head, who believes himself to have the power of invisibility, through a trailer park. Do these moves ever achieve anything other than making the perpetrator look like an idiot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03cikbeKnFI
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:rofl
:neener:
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Do these moves ever achieve anything other than making the perpetrator look like an idiot?
No.
But it's ok because we have to do whatever it takes to WIN THE WAR and get those 25 perkies! :x
I have two films, of the same person, where I chase him around for 20 minutes until he runs our fuel or I get bored and leave. They are quite painful to watch.
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its best to stay low and kill everyone. :frown: if he runs, give him your 6. :frown: if he climbs, dive. :joystick: with time someone will die. :old: someone go get more wood its getting cold in here. :( Ah yes my chair and whiskey. :airplane:
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i use that first move all the time. i call it the death spiral.
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That happens to me often. When they do that just cut throttle and stay behind them. It might get very annoying and might cost u a lot of bullets but eventually they will go down.
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That happens to me often. When they do that just cut throttle and stay behind them. It might get very annoying and might cost u a lot of bullets but eventually they will go down.
That's what I do as well. Sometime I'll hold my fire and just let them crash themselves into the earth. A few of them have called me rude names afterwards. :(
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No don't chop throttle, just use fundamentals like I did in the video and shoot them.
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They don't look stupid or like idiots, they look like pilots performing evasive maneuvers without the understanding that it will effect their overall energy state and maneuvering options the second they exit the maneuver.
Further, they're simply doing a maneuver that I dare say would probably work against half of the people they encounter. While being able to kill them, a majority of the other half would probably end up putting themselves in a bad position just to shoot them down (and some would kill themselves in the process).
It's not as bad as you make it appear.
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Except that it's so commonplace in the MA now that even veteran players like the ones in the video think that's it's the way to fight. Which brings us back to the title of this thread.
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Those are far from the gamiest maneuvers I've seen in the arena, especially the snap roll.
The only thing I consider completely unrealistic is the "porpoise", the rapid exchange of high positive and negative Gs. I don't think anyone could stand to keep this up for long.
That said, I'll hone to having trouble with maneuvers like this. When people fly smooth "good" ACM, I can often get guns or counter their maneuver. When they do something like this, I have real trouble. I've found guys simply rolling left and right rapidly while 400-200 out impossible to kill without running out of ammo. I don't know why.
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Except that it's so commonplace in the MA now that even veteran players like the ones in the video think that's it's the way to fight. Which brings us back to the title of this thread.
If it's so terrible because it doesn't work and so widespread that it's prevalent, then there would be no complaint because even barely-decent pilots would be landing numerous kills per sortie.
You're saying it's an easy kill and then complaining about it. That doesn't pass the litmus test for a widespread gaming problem.
We should instead label this thread as "the decline of spelling."
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Re: The decline of ACM in the MA. (flim)
Whatever, I made it as far as flim.
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If real WWII planes and pilots were capable of what AH planes and pilots are, the ACM manuals from the 40's would read a lot differently. The "Oh $&^%" move might even have a chapter.
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If real WWII planes and pilots were capable of what AH planes and pilots are, the ACM manuals from the 40's would read a lot differently. The "Oh $&^%" move might even have a chapter.
I'm fairly certain the snap-roll and the SINGLE hard negative G pushover ("bunt") were known evasives
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Those are far from the gamiest maneuvers I've seen in the arena, especially the snap roll.
The only thing I consider completely unrealistic is the "porpoise", the rapid exchange of high positive and negative Gs. I don't think anyone could stand to keep this up for long.
Hell, the way half of us take off would injure the pilot.
That said, I'll hone to having trouble with maneuvers like this. When people fly smooth "good" ACM, I can often get guns or counter their maneuver. When they do something like this, I have real trouble. I've found guys simply rolling left and right rapidly while 400-200 out impossible to kill without running out of ammo. I don't know why.
Me too. I generally wind up doing similar to Floob. Just go high and come back in for another pass. It just annoys me because it takes me longer to kill them when they do it.
Wiley.
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Hell, the way half of us take off would injure the pilot.
Me too. I generally wind up doing similar to Floob. Just go high and come back in for another pass. It just annoys me because it takes me longer to kill them when they do it.
Wiley.
Real frustration comes in when you're in some unmaneuverable energy fighter that has set up the one shot it can realistically expect to get in the fight and you get something like this.
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I must have missed something. It looks like they all got away.
That flopping around does make bullets miss. you may get him eventually but I've seen many times where a plane flops out of the way of a well aimed shot and the plane dodges it like NEO from matrix. 190 are particularly good at becoming "invisible" when stick stirring around my gun site. what bothers me is that the plane seems to move in ways that are not possible. I would think a plane should always move fluidly, means the plane would have to rotate about's CG before the CG translated in one of the three degrees of freedom. But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes the rotations and translations seem to happen simultaneously, or the bandit translates up and down and there was no visible pitching of the airplane. This is important because the rotation should lead the change in direction. And that should make it easy to lead the shot. without, I'm firing and hoping the timing randomly produces a hit.
Of course this is exaggerated in a K4 or a P-39 [planes I fly mostly] where you have 60 and 39 rounds firing from a single cannon. There is no dispersion pattern that ensures hits like there is with 6 wing mounted .50 cals.
I don't know if this is caused by update rates, even in close quarters, or something else. on my screen, my planes seems to fly fluidly and perfectly predictably, so I assume the flight model is correct. But if there is small gaps in position vector transmission, this could make the plane appear to be darting around. Almost like warping does, but on a much smaller scale.
:salute
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Had a 51 do that last night. Chopped throttle ,pressed the rudder and waited. You don't escape a P-47 for long doing that. Lots of bullets, lots of patience.
I do think it looks even worse on your screen than it really is when you take in consideration, close up shoots, fast moves and figure in lag delay and the speed your PC updates the reds position. Makes it look more jiggly than it really is I would think.
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Real frustration comes in when you're in some unmaneuverable energy fighter that has set up the one shot it can realistically expect to get in the fight and you get something like this.
Why yes, I do fly the jug. :D
Of course this is exaggerated in a K4 or a P-39 [planes I fly mostly] where you have 60 and 39 rounds firing from a single cannon. There is no dispersion pattern that ensures hits like there is with 6 wing mounted .50 cals.
I don't know if this is caused by update rates, even in close quarters, or something else. on my screen, my planes seems to fly fluidly and perfectly predictably, so I assume the flight model is correct. But if the there is small gaps in position vector transmission, this could make the plane appear to be darting around. Almost like warping does, but on a much smaller scale.
:salute
Well, everything in the game other than your plane, your drones, and your bullets is an approximation of what's happening on the other end, so no matter what it's not going to be exactly right, and depending on connection at either end it can be really quite flaky.
Wiley.
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Why yes, I do fly the jug. :D
Well, everything in the game other than your plane, your drones, and your bullets is an approximation of what's happening on the other end, so no matter what it's not going to be exactly right, and depending on connection at either end it can be really quite flaky.
Wiley.
exactly. So I would say this strategy is effective. In a 1v1 that is. Usually the 5 guys behind me, if they haven't already killed him by shooting over my shoulder, will mop him up pretty quickly.
I take solice in having slowed him down for them. :D
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You're saying it's an easy kill and then complaining about it. That doesn't pass the litmus test for a widespread gaming problem.
Yes it does.
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Re: The decline of ACM in the MA. (flim)
Whatever, I made it as far as flim.
Thats how i spell flim, you can search my other posts or just search the word flim. Its part of the magic of floob. Youre welcome.
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I've looked at films where what I saw a plane do was impossibly jerky when seen in-game, but from that pilots perspective it looks a lot smoother and closer to reality.
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exactly. So I would say this strategy is effective. In a 1v1 that is. Usually the 5 guys behind me, if they haven't already killed him by shooting over my shoulder, will mop him up pretty quickly.
I take solice in having slowed him down for them. :D
The most effective I ever see it being is it taking me more time to kill him than it would otherwise. The only effective thing I find it gains the guy is the chance for his buddy to clear me off of him. I can't remember the last time it was 1v1 and it did anything other than prolong the inevitable.
It has caused me to blow an entire clip of 30mm due to frustration and not hit him. Bad words were said, but I learned a bit about self control. ;)
Wiley.
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I must have missed something. It looks like they all got away.
You missed something, they didn't get away.
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Because the game allows this.. With no blacking, redding, blurring out and the like.. Its going to continue to happen.. You can keep booming and zooming and your not going to get hits.. Once guys start piping up about it.. then maybe some change will happen do you think?
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Except that it's so commonplace in the MA now that even veteran players like the ones in the video think that's it's the way to fight. Which brings us back to the title of this thread.
veteran players doesn't always equate to skillful players, just means they've played this game for some time.
ack-ack
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Yes it does.
"I'm going to complain about how bad the game is for giving me easy kills."
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
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Floob annoyed. Other players not scale sticks and fly funny. Worser than ever before, for the most part, kinda. Repeat, Floob annoyed. More flim to possibly follow. Or not. That is not all. :salute Carry on. Move along. :cheers: :airplane:
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I don't think it's bad unless a real plane couldn't do it. Some guys in WWII did put their planes into intentional spins, do snap rolls, jink around unpredicatably, push negative g's with crossed controls, and so forth for evasives. For me, it's hard to know where the boundary of possible vs. impossible sits in this regard.
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u forgot to mention the spit pilot that reverses on you, doesnt lose any speed, actually gains in his turn, that will after he makes a mistake flop over plummeting 3k below you, pull out smoothly and have retained all the previous e just 3k alt lower, rinse repeat all the way to his ack...
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"I'm going to complain about how bad the game is for giving me easy kills."
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
There are players who would rather die in a quality fight than get a wortless kill. Your statement betrays your point of view on the matter.
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I don't think it's bad unless a real plane couldn't do it. Some guys in WWII did put their planes into intentional spins, do snap rolls, jink around unpredicatably, push negative g's with crossed controls, and so forth for evasives. For me, it's hard to know where the boundary of possible vs. impossible sits in this regard.
When players cast aside dignity and behave like flailing remtards chimping out in a poo fight I deem the boundry crossed.
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When players cast aside dignity and behave like flailing remtards chimping out in a poo fight I deem the boundry crossed.
One man's poo fight is another man's Swan Lake! :D
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FLOOB, what plane were you flying?
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FLOOB, what plane were you flying?
It is steel. It is doom. It is folgore.
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Ran into 2 more mustangs doing the flip flop thing. Might have been the same guy. One I killed easily but the other avoided my shots until I emptied the full load P47 on him and I was 200 back for several minutes. On the deck the whole time. No ACMs at all just flopping around. That's why he could not run. I wish I would have recorded that one. It was bizarre.
Not sure but the mustang may have had a long ping time that would have made updates on my PC slow. Might be this only works if you the flopper has long ping times.
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There are players who would rather die in a quality fight than get a wortless kill. Your statement betrays your point of view on the matter.
I missed you getting a worthless kill in that flim. I appreciate you not moving your stick at all when I collected your C202 scalp one night (afk or otherwise). I will never consider you worthless.
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Looks like you the OP had the advantage and your target was low and slow or had just taken out his target but was still slow . It also looks like your failed to kill them in that first pass where you had all the advantage that good ACM provides. Had they flown with wingmen, perhaps you might not have faired so well.
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Please go here:
http://www.1jg51.net/jg51/LwTactics.html (http://www.1jg51.net/jg51/LwTactics.html)
About half way down, look for the following:
"ERICH HARTMANN'S "LAST DITCH" EVASION MANEUVER"
Please read the description.
Not something I do all the time...more of a "Oh-$__7-my-SA-has-failed-me-gotta-do-something-attempt-to-reset-the-fight"..thus the "LAST DITCH" part.
It's not dignified, and in many cases only delays the inevitable as you rightly point out, but it is a valid evasion tactic.
Just sayin'.
:salute
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in my experience, the last ditch effort flip flop maneuvers are the first moves a new player recognizes as "ACM". For instance, the first thing I was taught after a couple of months playing this game was the snap roll, which I would then do every time I had someone on my 6. Eventually I realized it wasn't the magic move that would let me win every fight, but it can be advertised like that.
Its kind of easy to get away with not knowing how to handle yourself in a fight when you can fly planes that have the performance to compensate. Getting out of the f4u-1a, 190D and putting myself into under powered rides like the birdcage corsair forced me to have to fight my way out of engagements rather than just extend away when I got in over my head.
The funny thing to me is, I would be using barrel rolls and trying to force Scissors fights with out having any idea what they were.
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u forgot to mention the spit pilot that reverses on you, doesnt lose any speed, actually gains in his turn,
Film or it didn't happen.
(Yeah, I know there won't be any film. How do I know? Because this accusation has been tossed at whichever plane the poster doesn't like since I've been here and not once has any film ever been made that supports the claim.)
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Film or it didn't happen.
(Yeah, I know there won't be any film. How do I know? Because this accusation has been tossed at whichever plane the poster doesn't like since I've been here and not once has any film ever been made that supports the claim.)
Hyperbolic types on this forum make anyone with real concerns about FM look bad by association.
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I saw sawzaw do such moves as in the film, I laughed so hard I augered. :uhoh
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I saw sawzaw do such moves as in the film, I laughed so hard I augered. :uhoh
:lol
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Hyperbolic types on this forum make anyone with real concerns about FM look bad by association.
True, and there have been and are legitimate FM concerns. Just nothing as blatant as the "The A6M/Brewster/Spitfire did a hard 180 degree turn and ran down my Fw190D-9 that was going 500mph!!!" absurdities.
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As far Floob's concern, those accelerated stalls rolls manoeuvers work especially when timed right. And u were much faster, they are even worse for me in P47s where I dont have much acceleration or turning. You catch up on a Spit, about to shoot and there it goes flipwarping all over my windshield. Right after you overshoot he's right there even usually able to follow you as if he didnt loose enegergy.
The worst are the 190 drivers, A5s and D9s ... oh my between their rollrate and internet lag takes a lot of tries to nail them as they are running to their ack.
I see it as a legetimate evasive manoeuver, but Im not quite sure that it's realife counter part would not leave way way way slow, definitely not like in here in Spits able to be right back in your six. :rofl
And Karnak i agree with you too. Planes, especially the light ones, seem to be able to yank hard without loosing energy. Doing 450 level passing a Spit8 HO to see him loop around and settle 1000y in your 6 is intriguing :)
You want to really save ACM in AH2 and bring back dogfighting? Tone down the dam AAA or at least don't give the kill to whoever is next to you. Treat autoack as a player and say 'Autoack killed Frenchy'. Maybe then you'll start seing fights again not mostly base defenders taking off in late war monsters only to dive down in their ack when loosing a 1 on 1 versus a dam P47 D25. :furious
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The ones I see complaining the most about stuff like this (not FLOOB, who isn't complaining) are the players who want DA-like rules over player actions in the MA e.g. any front quarter shot is a HO or cheap shot, "come down in the moshpit and fight me", "oh I see you have a k/d over 1 so you must be a scoretard wuss or avoiding combat"
Etc etc etc.
Blah blah blah.
Ad infinitum.
Ad nauseam.
It's a last ditch maneuver. It will likely just postpone the inevitable unless help arrives or you have some alt to burn and can extend away. If your on someones six who does it, go high (if you have the E), reset the fight and guess what? You will still kill him/her/it.....which I believe is what FLOOB did.
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Move like that can also cause your opponent to lose track of you all together, fly icons off with a buddy and you'll see what I mean.
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I saw sawzaw do such moves as in the film, I laughed so hard I augered. :uhoh
I PM'd him once asking if he was just having a stroke, he said no that was ACM. I ran into a tree because I was laughing so hard.
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One guy did crazy things to get away from my Yak9T 15k down to his base and i my cannon still mashed him
Proving i awesome :old:
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The real problem with these moves are network limitations combined with how the FM of some planes behave in these conditions.
Regarding the network, the problem is that this flip-flop creates microwarps because the interpolation till the next network packet arrives is very inaccurate. This is the cause of the typical microwarp of a plane flying straight and then make a sudden pull. On the remote FE he is suddently pointing up without passing through the angles in between. Especially in small quick planes line 190s, yak3 and Brewster this is very annoying. The issue becomes more sever as network round trip (ping times) increase.
Regarding the FM, as Frenchy pointed out, some plane can be thrown into what appears as total loss of controlled flight and recover at will, in an instant, with little adverse effect. In other planes, the only way to regain controlled flight is to point the nose down, pick up some speed and then pull out smoothly.
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. . .This is the cause of the typical microwarp of a plane flying straight and then make a sudden pull. On the remote FE he is suddently pointing up without passing through the angles in between. Especially in small quick planes line 190s, yak3 and Brewster this is very annoying. The issue becomes more sever as network round trip (ping times) increase. . . .
And the Mustang seems to very apt to this as well.
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The real problem with these moves are network limitations combined with how the FM of some planes behave in these conditions.
Regarding the network, the problem is that this flip-flop creates microwarps because the interpolation till the next network packet arrives is very inaccurate. This is the cause of the typical microwarp of a plane flying straight and then make a sudden pull. On the remote FE he is suddently pointing up without passing through the angles in between. Especially in small quick planes line 190s, yak3 and Brewster this is very annoying. The issue becomes more sever as network round trip (ping times) increase.
This is always frustrating. Yak3s seem the worst
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I don't even know how to spell ACM. :(
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I don't even know how to spell ACM. :(
what is amc? can i flim the psit?
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I don't even know how to spell ACM. :(
:rofl
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When I saw the ki84 spazzing out I heard "I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!" in my mind's ear. If you don't know what I'm referring to video google it, it's worth it.
"I can turn invisible if I really try hard." -Neal Diamond
as portrayed by Will Ferrell.
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looks to me like they just stalled as hard as they could with their eyes closed and hoped for the best. I give them props for evading the initial pass. Had higher enemies come from higher to save the poor fellow, Floob could have got picked himself, leaving the other guy still alive. They were obviously new. A lot of people have a hard time in the defense position, that's why you see so many runners and 190s, they avoid any type of defense conflict. If you notice, generally 190s will do the same floppy tactics when you get a good lead on their 6. The guys in this film didn't know what they were doing, yes lack of ACM for sure, but I know for a fact you did the same thing when you were learning this game.
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Most effective guns defense I've ever used is the negative G pushaway. Not sure why someone would consider that "gamey." Also, having someone crawling up your butt pretty much defines the "last ditch" scenario.
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looks to me like they just stalled as hard as they could with their eyes closed and hoped for the best. I give them props for evading the initial pass. Had higher enemies come from higher to save the poor fellow, Floob could have got picked himself, leaving the other guy still alive. They were obviously new. A lot of people have a hard time in the defense position, that's why you see so many runners and 190s, they avoid any type of defense conflict. If you notice, generally 190s will do the same floppy tactics when you get a good lead on their 6. The guys in this film didn't know what they were doing, yes lack of ACM for sure, but I know for a fact you did the same thing when you were learning this game.
Did you you not read the thread, they were both veteran players. And that wasn't the inital pass, he wasn't surprised and pannicked, he planned on doing what he did. Both films were cropped for brevity.
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For a few years now Skuzzy has been mentioning in passing conversations, something about home WiFi and it's impact on what may be perceived in "this" game.
What is the prevalence of home WiFi as the primary connected method to the Internet for most new AH players? The game takes a system snapshot every time you logon, stored in the file "sysinfo.cfg". I don't see an entry for active network adaptor. What are the differences WiFi versus hard wired connections that can be expected from our side of the equation when we fly against WiFi connected players?
Do these differences become magnified for WiFi versus Wifi connected players resulting in POSTs like these to complain about wire pulling, software lag switches, flip flopping around, micro warping, and god mode impervious to gunfire, or taking mass amounts of gunfire to bring down?
I guess this is not a stat Lusche can pull or HTC is tracking with the "sysinfo.cfg" file. Go to any store like COSTCO or names like "Best Buy", Target, or "Wally World" :). Look on the Interent casually. WiFI connection at home seems to be the rule today with hard wired the exception. How does that affect game play?
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For a few years now Skuzzy has been mentioning in passing conversations, something about home WiFi and it's impact on what may be perceived in "this" game.
What is the prevalence of home WiFi as the primary connected method to the Internet for most new AH players? The game takes a system snapshot every time you logon, stored in the file "sysinfo.cfg". I don't see an entry for active network adaptor. What are the differences WiFi versus hard wired connections that can be expected from our side of the equation when we fly against WiFi connected players?
Do these differences become magnified for WiFi versus Wifi connected players resulting in POSTs like these to complain about wire pulling, software lag switches, flip flopping around, micro warping, and god mode impervious to gunfire, or taking mass amounts of gunfire to bring down?
I guess this is not a stat Lusche can pull or HTC is tracking with the "sysinfo.cfg" file. Go to any store like COSTCO or names like "Best Buy", Target, or "Wally World" :). Look on the Interent casually. WiFI connection at home seems to be the rule today with hard wired the exception. How does that affect game play?
This is a post about player decision process, not about warping, wifi, or any of the paranormal things that people allege to happen in the arena that always evades filming.
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I'm wearing boots of escaping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gs2VYL-3RI
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When you film them and send it to Skuzzy, it stops being paranormal, just Internet and WiFi.
For a while the discussion ventured down the paranormal rabbit hole. Chide them instead O'l funky foul tempered Physeteroidea fluffer.....maybe we can pass the hat and get you a case of Maalox in the interim.
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It looked to me like both of them forced you to overshoot and if they'd known what they were doing after that you wouldnt be here posting films of your own deaths.
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It looked to me like both of them forced you to overshoot and if they'd known what they were doing after that you wouldnt be here posting films of your own deaths.
This X10
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It looked to me like both of them forced you to overshoot and if they'd known what they were doing after that you wouldnt be here posting films of your own deaths.
Yeah, he made several mistakes during his supposed superior maneuvering.
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It looked to me like both of them forced you to overshoot and if they'd known what they were doing after that you wouldnt be here posting films of your own deaths.
Why not?
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Yeah, he made several mistakes during his supposed superior maneuvering.
Reveal to me these mistakes please so that I might learn.
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I saw sawzaw do such moves as in the film, I laughed so hard I augered. :uhoh
just got his floppy sardine on a boat deck k-4 and D9 4 times :D
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When I saw the ki84 spazzing out I heard "I'M WEARING BOOTS OF ESCAPING!" in my mind's ear. If you don't know what I'm referring to video google it, it's worth it.
"I can turn invisible if I really try hard." -Neal Diamond
as portrayed by Will Ferrell.
I agree but then again i dont :old:
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When guys would no that my first reactions ends up being a snicker, followed by a decision on whether or not I am going to give up any advantage I may have had, to try to hit them. Worst A/C for doing the stick stir et al.... 190s.
When guys "stick stir" at speed, at the speed they stir, if they were in real AC I reckon they would crush their heads on the canopy. But, in the end how do you model that?
Take a deep breath, laugh at their silliness, get back into the fight with someone who wants to fight. When the same stick stirrer comes out of their ack to re-engage, reverse them again, and laugh as they make a break for their field... again.
This is also why I took to flying the Ki-43. You cannot chase people, you cannot perch and pick, you can only get close and kill. So, no frustration that you can't kill mr. run90, because the reality is, you can't catch him. The MA would be a much happier place if everyone flew turny planes instead of 1945 height of piston engine tech...
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The MA would be a much happier place if everyone flew turny planes instead of 1945 height of piston engine tech...
The Midwar and Earlywar arenas are the best for fights. The aircraft are much closer to dogfighters than any LW Escorts (P51) and interceptors (190).
It's a shame they are so under used/valued.
The most memorable time I have in AH is when the LW broke and everyone piled into the Midwar. I have never had so many fights in such a short amount of time :old:
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What's shown in the film is ACM. I'd rather see any sort of this than the standard 'running away when you have no advantage' approach, that's the antithesis of ACM imho :old:
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someone please break the LW arena again!!!!
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When guys "stick stir" at speed, at the speed they stir, if they were in real AC I reckon they would crush their heads on the canopy. But, in the end how do you model that?
I'd be willing to bet Dale could (after all, heads wobble when passing out). The next question would be, would it be worth it or would the player base, overall, appreciate it?
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Did you you not read the thread, they were both veteran players. And that wasn't the inital pass, he wasn't surprised and pannicked, he planned on doing what he did. Both films were cropped for brevity.
"Veteran players" haha obviously not. There is a major lack of ACM here for sure. If they really knew what they were doing they could have easily out maneuvered or lag rolled your C2. Veteran or not, this Is not proper ACM and these are rather newbish tactics from someone who isnt good fighting in defense positions.
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Since you recorded/filmed the fight...just to PROVE your point...you tube what it looked like from opponents view. If not, perhaps you should not have even posted.
JGroth
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"Veteran players" haha obviously not. There is a major lack of ACM here for sure. If they really knew what they were doing they could have easily out maneuvered or lag rolled your C2. Veteran or not, this Is not proper ACM and these are rather newbish tactics from someone who isnt good fighting in defense positions.
Hence the title of the thread :old:
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Since you recorded/filmed the fight...just to PROVE your point...you tube what it looked like from opponents view. If not, perhaps you should not have even posted.
JGroth
:headscratch:
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Soo..you've posted the view from opponent? JGroth
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Have you reviewed film from your opponents view? JGroth
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:headscratch: JGROTH
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I know I'm not as 'great' a pilot...but this would seem to be wise approach before getting on such a public platform and demonstrating one ignorence..ment in nice way.
JGroth
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You think that by switching to the opponent view I may discover something that vindicates their decision? Is this correct?
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I did btw check their views in the film viewer and it makes the FW look even sillier as he's racing toward the base spraying bullets in it's general direction, resigned to his fate and ignoring the two or three planes that are behind him shooting him.
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Hey, don't bother yourself.
But, seriously...your spouting off with half the story.
Again...don't bother yourself. Especially if you don't... No, I won't say that... let me say there IS something to be learned. And I'd like to see it.
JGroth
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You're strange.
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You'd actually hafta see their flim (if they flimmed it) to get their true perspective, JGroth. But yeah, that never stopped anyone from soap-boxing the forum in a fit of ire/frustration/perceived insight before.
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He's saying that if I checked their film I might find a good reason why they chose to be a suicide porker and that they didn't really spin out. That it only looked that way on my end.
JGroth you're not one of the planes in the film if that's what you're worried about.
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If you present 1/2 of the evidence....who SHOULD believe your point...
JGroth
ps..not worried that I'm on your film......still like to see it, but ......if you can't show it...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz1MwhjTWIw
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Arlo.. lol..just wanna see more..
JGroth
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Hence the title of the thread :old:
there is no decline here. This is players who arnt aware of the ACM in the first place. The only thing they could do stall cometely out and prey you over shoot. You could hardly call this a tactic. . But you gotta give them credit at least for them having to make you go another pass. that was almost just as bad.
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Because nobody in the game that knows ACM, even theoretically, gets surprised and in said state ends up overreacting with their stick input. :D
P.S. I can prove Floob doesn't. :)
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Kinda my point, Floob....but was hoping to get there long way. Ask Skuzzy sometime about my frustation/rant back when I was new as Groth..few years before JGroth.
JGroth
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there is no decline here. This is players who arnt aware of the ACM in the first place. The only thing they could do stall cometely out and prey you over shoot. You could hardly call this a tactic. . But you gotta give them credit at least for them having to make you go another pass. that was almost just as bad.
I don't do passes, that's BnZ poo. :D I'm old school, I get in the saddle. Not that I have a choice with only two low rof MG's.
That behavior lowers the sum average so yes it contributes to the decline. Jgroth here ya go. http://youtu.be/Ut-d4rqDE0s I think you'll find what the 190 does amusing, a porker to the end. Poo fight indeed.
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Kinda my point, Floob....but was hoping to get there long way. Ask Skuzzy sometime about my frustation/rant back when I was new as Groth..few years before JGroth.
JGroth
What is kind of your point? Recite your frustration rant for us.
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Sigh...yeah, sure..that's the ticket.
JGroth
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AFTER viewing film you posted..wth IS your problem?? He rolled, lost control, regained control, tried evading...
Again..what IS your complaint?? Elucidate..educate this peon..
JGroth
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And that was JUST from your film, his view...whining about nothing.
JGroth
ps..ment in nice, friendly way...
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I don't do passes, that's BnZ poo. :D I'm old school, I get in the saddle. Not that I have a choice with only two low rof MG's.
That behavior lowers the sum average so yes it contributes to the decline. Jgroth here ya go. http://youtu.be/Ut-d4rqDE0s I think you'll find what the 190 does amusing, a porker to the end. Poo fight indeed.
Lol you killed a couple of chumps and bragged about it on the forums. People do this stunt a lot. And yes there are ACM maneuvers and tactics. Obviously these players were not experienced enough, or had extremely low E already and yanked the stick. Congrats on your kills though. I know it was a joke, but its a great example of how not to fly.
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Because nobody in the game that knows ACM, even theoretically, gets surprised and in said state ends up overreacting with their stick input. :D
<sarcasm> This is correct. </sarcasm>
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Lol you killed a couple of chumps and bragged about it on the forums. People do this stunt a lot. And yes there are ACM maneuvers and tactics. Obviously these players were not experienced enough, or had extremely low E already and yanked the stick. Congrats on your kills though. I know it was a joke, but its a great example of how not to fly.
I never bragged about anything. I can understand why you may assume that though since that is the norm here. This was more of a, "what one can expect to see in an average sortie in aces high nowadays". Because more and more nowadays, unfortunately, this is the type of thing you'll see on any given flight. You're right they should've known better they have both been playing for years, and again, that is the point of the thread, they're not especially bad, they're the new norm.
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Look..I was just trying to give Floob a little perspective. Heck, Joe Black was squadie..talk about lag..none of his fault. Did/does he use it to his advantage?? I don't know..he's moved on.
Point is..Perspective, Perception...and when you think you know 'it all'..you probably need take a step back, take abreath.
Meaning no disrespect Mr Floob.
JGroth
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See Rule #4
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AFTER viewing film you posted..wth IS your problem?? He rolled, lost control, regained control, tried evading...
Again..what IS your complaint?? Elucidate..educate this peon..
JGroth
LMAO
Nice try arlo, but you're not getting off of my ignore list so easily.
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LMAO
Nice try arlo, but you're not getting off of my ignore list so easily.
:headscratch:
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I am not gonna even demean myself by giving you a retort in kind, Flood.
Blue Skys, Floob.
JGroth
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What gave you away was your compulsion to make me the subject of your posts instead of the topic of the thread.
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Prove it.
JGroth
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/oh-please.gif)
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Reply is not edit FYI.
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<sarcasm> This is correct. </sarcasm>
The surprised and lost control excuse would only be a viable explanation if the fight had just started and he hadn't known I was there.
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The surprised and lost control excuse would only be a viable explanation if the fight had just started and he hadn't known I was there.
I wasn't referring to your victims...rather to the implied statements of a few other posters in the thread.
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Really? "The surprised and lost control excuse would only be a viable explanation if the fight had just started and he hadn't known I was there." never said he was 'surprised'............
Again, elucidate and educate....
JGroth
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Why not?
Because your thread title. "The decline of ACM in the MA" and the text contained in your OP were clearly intended to position you as having superior ACM to that of your filmed "opponents" (quotes because we don't even know for sure if they knew you were there or not prior to the film start). Positioning yourself as having superior ACM then overshooting (which you did) and letting you're "inferior opponents" kill you (which they didn't) would have been counterproductive to your agena, therefore you'd never have posted.
Not only did your opponents show inferior ACM but so did you and maybe worse. You overshot then made a second pass in both cases by using a flat turn. Clearly you don't understand the use of throttle, flaps or vertical rolls to maintain position on your opponents. You got lucky that you truely did face inferior opponents.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24324228.jpg)
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Hehe, BaldEagl I like you.
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Because your thread title. "The decline of ACM in the MA" and the text contained in your OP were clearly intended to position you as having superior ACM to that of your filmed "opponents" (quotes because we don't even know for sure if they knew you were there or not prior to the film start). Positioning yourself as having superior ACM then overshooting (which you did) and letting you're "inferior opponents" kill you (which they didn't) would have been counterproductive to your agena, therefore you'd never have posted.
Not only did your opponents show inferior ACM but so did you and maybe worse. You overshot then made a second pass in both cases by using a flat turn. Clearly you don't understand the use of throttle, flaps or vertical rolls to maintain position on your opponents. You got lucky that you truely did face inferior opponents.
This.
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I never bragged about anything. I can understand why you may assume that though since that is the norm here. This was more of a, "what one can expect to see in an average sortie in aces high nowadays". Because more and more nowadays, unfortunately, this is the type of thing you'll see on any given flight. You're right they should've known better they have both been playing for years, and again, that is the point of the thread, they're not especially bad, they're the new norm.
Lol it's not the new norm. This is just a reaction. Its something anyone would do if they weren't prepared. Youll likely see this a lot throughout the years. Of course they were trying to dodge your bullets. Its not sad. They just wanted you to miss. Be happy they sucked and you got the kills, this isn't what AH is turning into bro, and I think its funny you are making a big deal about it when this is something, being a fighter, that you hope to come across. The easier the kills the better man.
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The muppets spent about 5 years starting posts like this. They were self serving and snotty. But, every last muppet could wipe most of us up in the DA when it came down to it. Even they have for their own reasons backed off on pointing fingers at others lately to pump themselves up in our forum wars. Of late they keep it to POSTS among ACM enthusiasts who like the contest of seeing who's is bigger with words.
It is no secret today that many players do not value ACM, nor understand ACM. It was no secret for the past 12 years that many players fit this profile. There was simply a much larger cadre of ACM enthusiasts who kept ACM in the for front in the MA back then. Today, flying in packs with altitude, or mutually supporting each other on the deck to swamp a single foolish hero has become normalized game play.
Floob if you want ACM, go to the DA with the muppets and tell them how bad arse you are. They will happily listen and enthusiastically allow you to put your kester up to the test of your mouth. Other wise, what is the point to filming paying customers and denigrating how they choose to play this game in public? Are you the kind of citizen who peeks in your neighbors homes and calls the police if the family is not to your interpretation of local statutes?
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This.
Still waiting for you to tell me the several things i did wrong.
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Still waiting for you to tell me the several things i did wrong.
Pretty much everything BaldEagle said. You poorly managed your E and used horizontal reversals against planes that could easily have outturned you, if that had used proper maneuvering. In addition, you failed to align your plane of maneuvering and instead jammed hard rudder, overcompensating, multiple times, bleeding off the airspeed you would have needed to stay competitive with a competent pilot in an attempt to hit them, which you failed at. Not only that, you failed to lead your guns on the first kill, instead aiming directly at (and slightly above) it, while it was apparent they were descending vertically.
Sure, everyone makes mistakes (heck, I make more than enough of them), yet for you to come here and mock others while flying like that? Really?
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Because your thread title. "The decline of ACM in the MA" and the text contained in your OP were clearly intended to position you as having superior ACM to that of your filmed "opponents" (quotes because we don't even know for sure if they knew you were there or not prior to the film start). Positioning yourself as having superior ACM then overshooting (which you did) and letting you're "inferior opponents" kill you (which they didn't) would have been counterproductive to your agena, therefore you'd never have posted.
Not only did your opponents show inferior ACM but so did you and maybe worse. You overshot then made a second pass in both cases by using a flat turn. Clearly you don't understand the use of throttle, flaps or vertical rolls to maintain position on your opponents. You got lucky that you truely did face inferior opponents.
I didnt over shoot. I flew past somebody faking a seizure. That's the right thing to do, let them get it out of their system. If you think i shouldve chopped throttle and bled E to become as slow as the spaz then youre a dummy.
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Pretty much everything BaldEagle said. You poorly managed your E and used horizontal reversals against planes that could easily have outturned you, if that had used proper maneuvering. In addition, you failed to align your plane of maneuvering and instead jammed hard rudder, overcompensating, multiple times, bleeding off the airspeed you would have needed to stay competitive with a competent pilot in an attempt to hit them, which you failed at. Not only that, you failed to lead your guns on the first kill, instead aiming directly at (and slightly above) it, while it was apparent they were descending vertically.
Sure, everyone makes mistakes, yet for you to come here and mock others while flying like that?
Thanks for the advise.
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The muppets spent about 5 years starting posts like this. They were self serving and snotty. But, every last muppet could wipe most of us up in the DA when it came down to it. Even they have for their own reasons backed off on pointing fingers at others lately to pump themselves up in our forum wars. Of late they keep it to POSTS among ACM enthusiasts who like the contest of seeing who's is bigger with words.
It is no secret today that many players do not value ACM, nor understand ACM. It was no secret for the past 12 years that many players fit this profile. There was simply a much larger cadre of ACM enthusiasts who kept ACM in the for front in the MA back then. Today, flying in packs with altitude, or mutually supporting each other on the deck to swamp a single foolish hero has become normalized game play.
Floob if you want ACM, go to the DA with the muppets and tell them how bad arse you are. They will happily listen and enthusiastically allow you to put your kester up to the test of your mouth. Other wise, what is the point to filming paying customers and denigrating how they choose to play this game in public? Are you the kind of citizen who peeks in your neighbors homes and calls the police if the family is not to your interpretation of local statutes?
Bustr knows what im taking about.
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I didnt over shoot. I flew past somebody faking a seizure. That's the right thing to do, let them get it out of their system. If you think i shouldve chopped throttle and bled E to become as slow as the spaz then youre a dummy.
LOL... :rofl
Flying past somebody unintentionally IS overshooting.
You had two options both equally as effective; chop throttle and saddle up for the kill as they cross your sights (looking at your film there weren't any other enemies close) or use the vert to roll over them to maintain position behind them.
For a guy who claims to like to saddle up you did a piss poor job of it by flying past them. :rofl
I hope one day you'll do that for me and let me get "it" out of my system.
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Bustr knows what im taking about.
That you're self-serving and snotty without the skill to back it up?
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Meh the old time wheels whos opinion I respect have already agreed with me. Even bustr, but he had to get a barb in because i hurt his feelings the other day so thats ok. The only slobber donkeys griefing me now are established ultra melons and ones that have a beef with me personally from the past and Skyyr who is apperantly a rauml protoge.
I hate posting from phone
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Meh the old time wheels whose opinion I respect have already agreed with me. Even bustr, but he had to get a barb in because i hurt his feelings the other day so that's ok. The only slobber donkeys griefing me now are established ultra melons and ones that have a beef with me personally from the past and Skyyr who is apparently a rauml protege.
I hate posting from phone
The decline of the MA due to lack of SA. (http://youtu.be/PnO70RgjbJE) :D
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The decline of the MA due to lack of SA. (http://youtu.be/PnO70RgjbJE) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWG0wOZLjg
(http://media2.giphy.com/media/bEKspBwCIXQv6/giphy.gif)
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looks to me like they just stalled as hard as they could with their eyes closed and hoped for the best. I give them props for evading the initial pass. Had higher enemies come from higher to save the poor fellow, Floob could have got picked himself, leaving the other guy still alive. They were obviously new. A lot of people have a hard time in the defense position, that's why you see so many runners and 190s, they avoid any type of defense conflict. If you notice, generally 190s will do the same floppy tactics when you get a good lead on their 6. The guys in this film didn't know what they were doing, yes lack of ACM for sure, but I know for a fact you did the same thing when you were learning this game.
this ^
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The only slobber donkeys griefing me now
...erm....where is Shane...?
- oldman
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Seems like the critique of his "overshoot" fails to recognize IF other variables existed and a slight sentiment that someone knows for sure they did not, so Floob made a mistake.
He said he flew past them intentionally, maybe he did not vertical roll because of a higher or bandit positioned within striking distance if he did so :headscratch:
Seems where some are making suggestions assuming Floob is/did xyz are making assumptions too.
Now some of the other stuff... :bolt: And with Rodney King's passing, so did his message. :uhoh
I'm a lack of skill, no to little acm hack, so what do I know, :joystick: :airplane:
:salute
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The Midwar and Earlywar arenas are the best for fights. The aircraft are much closer to dogfighters than any LW Escorts (P51) and interceptors (190).
It's a shame they are so under used/valued.
The most memorable time I have in AH is when the LW broke and everyone piled into the Midwar. I have never had so many fights in such a short amount of time :old:
Ahhh that was a great day, I was very green, but it was fun nonetheless
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I didnt over shoot. I flew past somebody faking a seizure.
No bud their ACM (as disadvantageous to them as it was) caused you to overshoot. That was the purpose of it. If you want to improve as you indicate you do, the first step is being completely honest with yourself.
I don't do passes, that's BnZ poo. :D I'm old school, I get in the saddle. Not that I have a choice with only two low rof MG's.
A coupe of observations here. All forms of ACM you'll come across in AH are old school. I myself dislike BnZ because for the most part it attracts the low risk to high score approach faction but I respect the handful of AH pilots who can do it very well. it's not the style but the execution which determines what is lame and not. There are some incredibly lame TnBers in AH for instance who systematically look for fights already going on or arrive with enough energy to force their faster, poorer turning opponents to turn. This is similarly lame.
If you're going to complain about a decline of ACM and criticise that used by other players then yours had better be pretty good and from what I saw in the movie it isn't. You need to work on exchanging kinetic and potential energy a lot more and spend a good deal more time on your BFM. You could have done several preferable manoeuvres in this position.
Finally you have as much choice as anyone in which plane you fly. Don't complain about poor armament when you're exploiting another attribute of your aircraft. No one forces you to fly it, you make your selection and take the disadvantages along with the advantages.
You got kicked in the nuts in this thread and rather brought it on yourself. It's up to you whether you let it twist you or to sift out the sound advice and progress.
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I didnt over shoot. I flew past somebody faking a seizure. That's the right thing to do, let them get it out of their system. If you think i shouldve chopped throttle and bled E to become as slow as the spaz then youre a dummy.
Lag rolls/turns are your friend.
ack-ack
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Thats what i did, i rolled and came back down on them, rather quickly i might add. The flipflop isnt acm, any way you slice it, never will be. I know thats going to hurt a lot of players feelings, but somebody has to tell them. In my day a trainer would have taken them to the wood shed. :old:
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The flipflop isnt acm, any way you slice it, never will be. I know thats going to hurt a lot of players feelings, but somebody has to tell them. In my day a trainer would have taken them to the wood shed. :old:
It's a manoeuvre, in combat, in the air, regardless of its effectiveness. You're not hurting anyone's feelings, other people simply disagree with your opinion and unfounded authoritative tone.
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With Spits and ki84s i like to bait them into trying to out turn me. They see the C2 and think they'll just get behind me in a few turns, by the time they realise they are being out turned Its too late for them, they are now too slow to run.
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It's a manoeuvre, in combat, in the air, regardless of its effectiveness. You're not hurting anyone's feelings, other people simply disagree with your opinion and unfounded authoritative tone.
You wont get far with that attitude.
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You wont get far with that attitude.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/TeachYourselftoFly_zpsecf5762c.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/TeachYourselftoFly_zpsecf5762c.jpg.html)
And get your hair cut and shave off that ridiculous beard while you're about it, beatnik.
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C2 series are free chicken.
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I'm fairly certain the snap-roll and the SINGLE hard negative G pushover ("bunt") were known evasives
This.
:cheers: Oz
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I know thats going to hurt a lot of players feelings, but somebody has to tell them. In my day a trainer would have taken them to the wood shed. :old:
Has ... to? Your ... day? :D
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(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/TeachYourselftoFly_zpsecf5762c.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/TeachYourselftoFly_zpsecf5762c.jpg.html)
And get your hair cut and shave off that ridiculous beard while you're about it, beatnik.
People still use the term "beatnik"? :D
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People still use the term "beatnik"? :D
When referring to a beatnik, yes.
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When referring to a beatnik, yes.
Huh. And here I always thought he was going for that "Abe Lincoln" look! :aok
Quite popular here in the States.....er...well....it was about 150 years ago. Still is with certain Amish homesteads. :)
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Huh. And here I always thought he was going for that "Abe Lincoln" look! :aok
Quite popular here in the States.....er...well....it was about 150 years ago. Still is with certain Amish homesteads. :)
And here I thought he a Moby Dick fanatic.
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And here I thought he a Moby Dick fanatic.
The Dweeb flew before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity of Dweebishness which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern AHers ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Bosch of the Kaiser reverenced in their statue devil;—Floob did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred Moby Dweeb, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all the flip-flopping and stalling and bunts and evasions; all evil, to crazy Floob, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in the Moby Dweeb. He piled upon the Dweeb’s cockpit the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Boelcke down; and then, as if his chest had been a cannon, he burst his hot heart's 20mm shell upon it.
FLOOB: ...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
:devil
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The Dweeb flew before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity of Dweebishness which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern AHers ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Bosch of the Kaiser reverenced in their statue devil;—Floob did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred Moby Dweeb, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all the flip-flopping and stalling and bunts and evasions; all evil, to crazy Floob, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in the Moby Dweeb. He piled upon the Dweeb’s cockpit the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Boelcke down; and then, as if his chest had been a cannon, he burst his hot heart's 20mm shell upon it.
FLOOB: ...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
Well done! :D
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The Dweeb flew before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity of Dweebishness which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern AHers ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Bosch of the Kaiser reverenced in their statue devil;—Floob did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred Moby Dweeb, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all the flip-flopping and stalling and bunts and evasions; all evil, to crazy Floob, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in the Moby Dweeb. He piled upon the Dweeb’s cockpit the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Boelcke down; and then, as if his chest had been a cannon, he burst his hot heart's 20mm shell upon it.
FLOOB: ...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
:devil
:rofl :rofl :aok
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The Dweeb flew before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity of Dweebishness which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern AHers ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Bosch of the Kaiser reverenced in their statue devil;—Floob did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred Moby Dweeb, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all the flip-flopping and stalling and bunts and evasions; all evil, to crazy Floob, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in the Moby Dweeb. He piled upon the Dweeb’s cockpit the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Boelcke down; and then, as if his chest had been a cannon, he burst his hot heart's 20mm shell upon it.
FLOOB: ...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
:rofl :aok
:devil
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gangtards :rolleyes:
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At least Floob has inspired the many, to wax as the Mighty, in a unified glory of elucidation.
And no one's insulted anyone's momma yet. Unless that was the white whale metaphor?? :huh
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Dead whale or a stove boat.
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People still use the term "beatnik"? :D
I recently had to explain the difference between the words hep and hip.
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At least Floob has inspired the many, to wax as the Mighty, in a unified glory of elucidation.
And no one's insulted anyone's momma yet. Unless that was the white whale metaphor?? :huh
An inspiration, indeed if not in deed. :D
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The problem with profundity as a sport. Is eventually you loose your grasp of the original topic whilst nursing a headache you didn't even drink to achieve...... :cry
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Hey, nice thread. It'll serve as cautionary for a while, probably. It underscores perfectly the danger of complaining about the "state of the game" while sporting a surplus of anachronistic facial hair. Now, I have no dog in this fight, but my gut reaction to the film was that the maneuvers shown looked desperate. I always figure that, by the time the foe is 600 of my 6, my mistake has been both made and compounded. At that point, I'm looking for 2 things: help and a violent break. Generally, down low like that, I'll try to use a roll that I try to time such that I can get out of phase with the trailer. This has the added benefit of limiting the e drain. That said, I've probably done any number of totally stupid things while trying to evade an attacker, in part due to panic. Consider the loop. There have been many occasions in which I was locked in a loop with an opponent I KNEW to have less E at the start - and whom I was probably gaining angle on ( I use the g-14, mostly, a very good machine in the vertical) - yet disengaged after a simple 360 out of panic. I was once dead stick and saw an experienced member of this bbs bore down on me in his 190d-9. I waited for the ringing of gunfire in the headset but instead got paid off with a single explosion. He augered. Whoops.
Funny things happen out there. There's flying and then there's pressure flying.
If this complaint were couched in such a way that it formed a testable hypothesis, we could get lusche to pull some data on it.
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I recently had to explain the difference between the words hep and hip.
:lol :aok
Don't take anything I say about the hair/beard seriously, FLOOB. I'm just pokin' fun. :salute
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These moves are so common as to be almost expected.
Either the ability to do these joke moves should be removed…or……after a move like this the whole front of the cockpit of the offending aircraft is covered with a yellow film with orange circles blended in, limiting visibility.
Thus simulates the pilot throwing up uncontrollably. And the orange circles? There’s always carrots in the mix.
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If you are going to flay the shades of hip and hep. First define who are the swingers and hot commodities. Then fill the box with who's square. Or is we talkin hepwhales versus hepcats or whalesters versus hipsters?
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It is better to die with dignity than to live on as a flailing ape throwing poo.
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It is better to die with dignity than to live on as a flailing ape throwing poo.
the dead only know one thing, it is better to be alive.
semp
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"the dead only know one thing, it is better to be alive."
semp
Always use quotes. Nice FMJ reference.
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Meh the old time wheels whos opinion I respect have already agreed with me. Even bustr, but he had to get a barb in because i hurt his feelings the other day so thats ok. The only slobber donkeys griefing me now are established ultra melons and ones that have a beef with me personally from the past and Skyyr who is apperantly a rauml protoge.
I hate posting from phone
I would like to be a protégé either/both of them, frankly. They kill everything and seem to study the art of ACM vs. spout about "real ACM" on the internet...
"Why don't you use REAL ACM?" is the cry of someone who got whacked, IMHO. I see it all the time on 200.
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Detune 200. Don't worry about how the other guy flies unless they requested training from you. Don't come here and whine about it. :D
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Detune 200. Don't worry about how the other guy flies unless they requested training from you. Don't come here and whine about it. :D
I was ignoring you but clicked any way.
Not saying they whine that way about me. About others I know, yes. I am not in that league yet. Just correcting the record as I don't want anyone to think I am talking about myself....
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Ok youre on record stating you would rather be like skyyr and rauml. Noted.
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/nick-cage-lol.gif)
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Ok youre on record stating you would rather be like skyyr and rauml. Noted.
Yep. Killers. Guys who know how to fight smart. Guys who understand ACM. Energy. Situational Awareness. Guys who can fight against six alone and come out with five or six scalps and RTB. HELL YES. Count me in.
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Yep. Killers. Guys who know how to fight smart. Guys who understand ACM. Energy. Situational Awareness. Guys who can fight against six alone and come out with five or six scalps and RTB. HELL YES. Count me in.
Skyyr is a diligent E fighter and quite good. Ruaml is a living aimbot apparently, probably the best vulcher in the game, but unimpressive when it is you on his six.
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Yes, there is much to recommend Skyyr, who is both good at the blackboard and in the sim. Unfortunately, I've been on the receiving end of his fire twice now. The first time, I was doomed. I was rtb'ing almost on fumes. He was high in a 190. The second time was more of a challenge for him but ended the same way. As for the blackboard, I use his logic regarding going vertical after the merge all the time now and it works. He counselled, post head-to-head merge, that you pull vertical sooner rather than later since, if the bird you passed reverses, the immediate zoom presents him a more difficult nose up angle if he wants a shot. Generally, because I tend to engage cautiously, my zoom actually takes me out of their plane of turn or possible nose-up angle and leaves me with a nice advantage. It is then possible for me to roll to put my canopy top towards the target and flop back over for another shot. At least that's how it works against a turny bird.
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Hey, nice thread. It'll serve as cautionary for a while, probably. It underscores perfectly the danger of complaining about the "state of the game" while sporting a surplus of anachronistic facial hair. Now, I have no dog in this fight, but my gut reaction to the film was that the maneuvers shown looked desperate. I always figure that, by the time the foe is 600 of my 6, my mistake has been both made and compounded. At that point, I'm looking for 2 things: help and a violent break. Generally, down low like that, I'll try to use a roll that I try to time such that I can get out of phase with the trailer. This has the added benefit of limiting the e drain. That said, I've probably done any number of totally stupid things while trying to evade an attacker, in part due to panic. Consider the loop. There have been many occasions in which I was locked in a loop with an opponent I KNEW to have less E at the start - and whom I was probably gaining angle on ( I use the g-14, mostly, a very good machine in the vertical) - yet disengaged after a simple 360 out of panic. I was once dead stick and saw an experienced member of this bbs bore down on me in his 190d-9. I waited for the ringing of gunfire in the headset but instead got paid off with a single explosion. He augered. Whoops.
Funny things happen out there. There's flying and then there's pressure flying.
If this complaint were couched in such a way that it formed a testable hypothesis, we could get lusche to pull some data on it.
Typically, if you get in a looping roll fight, at the start of it, its actually better to be a lil slower. This way you can kind of get inside. Once you both get slow it takes throttle, timing, stall control, and flaps. Of you are going fast you have to make larger and higher rolls. When you have a con 600 off your tail. The best maneuver is a lag roll which uses their speed against them, that can be fatel if the enimies follow you. You're right these guys did do this out of desperation. Its not the right move because it completely kills their E. In a lag roll you still have the ability to maintain E and possibly get a shot. Its a complicated move that takes some practice. Most players do not know how to perform one well so they run or stick to these type of tactics in the vid.
P.S I hope to god Floob preys on my ki84 or 109 in that C2 cause it's gonna get fried and I always enjoy fresh C2 or yak for dinner.
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OK...I owe FLOOB a slight apology.
Last night I went to help a fellow pilot with a Ki84 who had latched on to his six as he was dealing with another red guy. As I pulled into range the Ki pilot (who will remain nameless) started stick stirring and negative G moves which simply can't happen in "real life". Add in his "moves" (for lack of a better term) caused him to warp about 25 yards left and right for several seconds. Needless to say I missed my initial shot and overshot. So yes, I can see where this can be annoying (and a bit embarrassing ) ....and agree what the Ki was doing was in no way "ACM" as I would define it.
That. Being. Said.
I simply went vert as I overshot, barrel rolled, and was back on the nameless stick stirring fool's six in less than a few seconds. He died of a forced-injestion-of-taters overdose shortly thereafter. :D
So what I stated previously concerning how to deal with these guys still holds true. :aok
P.S. Thanks again to the pilot I helped for coming around and clearing an LA who had latched on to me. Much appreciated....and a testament to how the game should be played. :salute
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Typically, if you get in a looping roll fight, at the start of it, its actually better to be a lil slower. This way you can kind of get inside. Once you both get slow it takes throttle, timing, stall control, and flaps. Of you are going fast you have to make larger and higher rolls. When you have a con 600 off your tail. The best maneuver is a lag roll which uses their speed against them, that can be fatel if the enimies follow you. You're right these guys did do this out of desperation. Its not the right move because it completely kills their E. In a lag roll you still have the ability to maintain E and possibly get a shot. Its a complicated move that takes some practice. Most players do not know how to perform one well so they run or stick to these type of tactics in the vid.
P.S I hope to god Floob preys on my ki84 or 109 in that C2 cause it's gonna get fried and I always enjoy fresh C2 or yak for dinner.
I could see slower being much better for getting the angle. However, doesn't it kind of up the ante? I mean: it sounds kind of "fangs out" - either I get the kill then and there or the other guy is going to have a shot his next time around...
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It depends on what the guy does.
If you are going much slower than him as he beams down on your 6 then you should push forward down and do a left/right nose down turn. This sets you up for a lag roll. You do it when they are following you about to black out. Now of course if they miss they are gonna come back around. You do the same move again. The nose down turn allows you to get some E every time. The key is to get them to follow you in the turn. It takes practice!! Every time they roll around and come back on you they lose E and or get impatient. Once they follow you they will still have a slight bit more E than you. You can lag roll them, they will go vert and you might be able to get a shot. Or they will try to roll too crushing all their E, however you are going slower so you can get inside easier. If you have a better turning plane you should win. It takes a lot of practice, but this is how you take care of BnZers.
I always recommend pushing forward down as a plane is coming on your 6. If you can stay under the attackers nose. They will generally miss from blackout or loss of sight on you. Giving you a chance for a reverse maneuver.
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I always recommend pushing forward down as a plane is coming on your 6. If you can stay under the attackers nose. They will generally miss from blackout or loss of sight on you. Giving you a chance for a reverse maneuver.
German 109 pilots used to do this vs Spitfires, as the Spits lacked fuel injection and couldn't perform negative G's maneuvers without starving the engine of fuel.
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German 109 pilots used to do this vs Spitfires, as the Spits lacked fuel injection and couldn't perform negative G's maneuvers without starving the engine of fuel.
And the Hartmann manoeuvre which is very effective and historically accurate.
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And the Hartmann manoeuvre which is very effective and historically accurate.
Both of these involved a single hard neg push, not "porpoising" like you see in the MA though.
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Typically, if you get in a looping roll fight, at the start of it, its actually better to be a lil slower. This way you can kind of get inside. Once you both get slow it takes throttle, timing, stall control, and flaps. Of you are going fast you have to make larger and higher rolls. When you have a con 600 off your tail. The best maneuver is a lag roll which uses their speed against them, that can be fatel if the enimies follow you. You're right these guys did do this out of desperation. Its not the right move because it completely kills their E. In a lag roll you still have the ability to maintain E and possibly get a shot. Its a complicated move that takes some practice. Most players do not know how to perform one well so they run or stick to these type of tactics in the vid.
P.S I hope to god Floob preys on my ki84 or 109 in that C2 cause it's gonna get fried and I always enjoy fresh C2 or yak for dinner.
I can tell you're new because you call a 202 a c2.
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I can tell you're new because you call a 202 a c2.
I'm pretty sure I have a better rank than you.
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And they stood there well after taps insisting the other render their salute first. :D
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I'm pretty sure I have a better rank than you.
I'm pretty sure most people do. lol
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Both of these involved a single hard neg push, not "porpoising" like you see in the MA though.
But you could do it in succession. They can't be picking their stick up by the base and randomly shaking it or the 'don't move your controls too rapidly' would catch them. They surely also can't accelerate away doing this. It's a trivial matter to use your superior energy to generate some AoT for a bigger target.
I'm not really sure what the complaint is here, I think it's just that they are not giving the instant gratification of easy kills. Some of these floobs will catch a highly skilled player in this position one day and find out it's like having a tiger by the tail, when they get their hands bitten off even when holding all the cards they'll have something to complain about :old:
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Now that I'm approaching my dotage, when I see a pilot flying weirdly, I climb out and fly away. I just won't put up with it.
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I'm pretty sure I have a better rank than you.
I'm pretty sure most people do. lol
Interesting how some elements of our community like to pooh pooh rank and score....until it's convienent not to.
Just sayin'.
And they stood there well after taps insisting the other render their salute first. :D
Annnnnnnnnnnnnddddd..... :salute
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Lol! I was totally being sarcastic. Just wanted to see what he would say.
I'm "new"
Hope to catch ya in the MA I'll be looking forward it. PS. Don't get roped!
Ha!
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Lol! I was totally being sarcastic.
I'm "new"
Floob still thinks even though he's in a C202 he would still have a chance.
Ha!
Ahhh...I understand.
And never say never. On any given Sunday, as they say!
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I would like to be a protégé either/both of them, frankly. They kill everything and seem to study the art of ACM vs. spout about "real ACM" on the internet...
"Why don't you use REAL ACM?" is the cry of someone who got whacked, IMHO. I see it all the time on 200.
I don't think you want to be a RuPaul protégé unless you want to know which color lipstick to wear so it won't clash with your heels during the drag show. When you shoot him down, you'll have to endure (if you're unlucky enough that he isn't muted already) his PMs and over channel 200 telling you how much you suck, how gay you are, how you HO'd him, etc.
He's also not one to look up if you want to learn any ACM, unless you want to know the finer points of running from a fight. Then in that case, he's a treasure trove of information.
ack-ack
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I don't think you want to be a RuPaul protégé unless you want to know which color lipstick to wear so it won't clash with your heels during the drag show. When you shoot him down, you'll have to endure (if you're unlucky enough that he isn't muted already) his PMs and over channel 200 telling you how much you suck, how gay you are, how you HO'd him, etc.
He's also not one to look up if you want to learn any ACM, unless you want to know the finer points of running from a fight. Then in that case, he's a treasure trove of information.
ack-ack
QFT
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Annnnnnnnnnnnnddddd..... :salute
:D :salute :cheers:
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I don't think you want to be a RuPaul protégé unless you want to know which color lipstick to wear so it won't clash with your heels during the drag show. When you shoot him down, you'll have to endure (if you're unlucky enough that he isn't muted already) his PMs and over channel 200 telling you how much you suck, how gay you are, how you HO'd him, etc.
He's also not one to look up if you want to learn any ACM, unless you want to know the finer points of running from a fight. Then in that case, he's a treasure trove of information.
ack-ack
Last time I played in MA he was VOX PMing, and he was silent on chan200 so I'm assuming he was text muted.
"do I sound muted motherdiddlyer??" :rofl
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Lol! I was totally being sarcastic. Just wanted to see what he would say.
I'm "new"
Hope to catch ya in the MA I'll be looking forward it. PS. Don't get roped!
Ha!
Careful, for some here score is everything.
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Careful, for some here score is everything.
Some are under the delusion that the higher your score, the higher chance you have of scoring with the chicks.
ack-ack
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Some are under the delusion that the higher your score, the higher chance you have of scoring with the chicks.
ack-ack
Aces High was the tipping point that netted my wife. Ok, ok ..... Aces High was a secret until after we got married.
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I am glad someone posted this.
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Some are under the delusion that the higher your score, the higher chance you have of scoring with the chicks.
ack-ack
When, actually, that probability is something more like the reciprocal...
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When, actually, that probability is something more like the reciprocal...
It depends on what joystick you let your girlfriend (or boyfriend, if you swing that way) use when flying.
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When, actually, that probability is something more like the reciprocal...
I'd venture more an antonym of. :D
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It depends on what joystick you let your girlfriend (or boyfriend, if you swing that way) use when flying.
Interesting possibility... I wonder if anyone's ever worked the act into a sortie. I guess you'd get bonus points for a kill, especially if it was, uh, timely.
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Floob is gonna get violated by a newbie
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Floob is gonna get violated by a newbie
Is this part of the conversation or something beside the point that we should probably pretend we didn't read? :confused:
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Well since I don't know the difference in C202, C2, and c205, I must be a new and not know what I'm taking about.
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Well since I don't know the difference in C202, C2, and c205, I must be a new and not know what I'm taking about.
Dammit, man. CO2 is global warming. Errr ..... ummmm.
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Some are under the delusion that the higher your score, the higher chance you have of scoring with the chicks.
I'm living proof this indeed just a delusion :old:
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Careful, for some here score is everything.
For some, yep.
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For some, yep.
I remember my first year...
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I don't. It was a loooonnnggg time ago.
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I am surprised the "Moving controls too rapidly" lock doesn't catch some of the floopers. It still gets me every couple of months.
Maybe Latrobe could do one of his super videos on what to do instead of flopping. Could be a good deterrent.
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Personally...I like where this thread has gone. There are several true insights posted missed by OP.
JGroth
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*shrug* Who knows? Certainly not I....all I care about is my score! :rolleyes:
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I'm living proof this indeed just a delusion :old:
Yes, but I can see from your icon that you've got a beautiful mind.
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Without looking, do many of you even know who are ranked on the front page for last tour?
It's been years since those rankings have been a serious community topic in the MA or in these forums. Back then SHawk seemed to always be #1, while players in the MA were talking about those who made the list and gunned for them. Seems after awhile it became the rule, not the exception, SHawk would be #1 and what was the point of trying anymore. Kind of removed any pretense for new players to get involved at a number of levels. A bit like the gulf of difference and expectations between all of the casual players and the ACM addicts.
It's been some years since I've watched someone on text get laughed at for telling everyone he's uber because of that number next to his ID in the roster. Drop troops to take a few towns, shoot a few tanks with a GV and land those kills. Drop a few bombs with a bomber. Resupply the HQ a few times and your spawn camping mates. Make sure you fly conservatively and land your fighter after every sortie. Your score will stay low. Meh......and not a lot of fun. Fun for the casual players is a gulf of difference from the ACM crowd. They don't define themselves by any single aspect of the game other than "am I having fun".
The accomplishments are kind of silly but, have more relevance to our current game played by the casual players. It's not something you have to man up and defend all the time like old west gunfighters in movies making a name for themselves. At least with the accomplishments acting as a self imposed informal challenge. You don't run into the level of finessing that happened back when Frenchy offered a prize at the end of his famous "Frenchy Challenge".
If you attempt to hold up ACM as the alpha and omega of the AH experience. Then complain and point fingers at the other 95% of players, who will be casual gamers no matter the MMO, as some kind of "Zerg" blight on your AH experience. What are you showing about your personal lack of flexibility and man up ability to change?
This post has parallels to the corner bar where the regulars drive off new customers in a slow economy because they have forgotten the owner is running a business.
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It's not the size of the wall of text that counts. It's how you use it.
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Without looking, do many of you even know who are ranked on the front page for last tour?
It's been years since those rankings have been a serious community topic in the MA or in these forums. Back then SHawk seemed to always be #1, while players in the MA were talking about those who made the list and gunned for them. Seems after awhile it became the rule, not the exception, SHawk would be #1 and what was the point of trying anymore. Kind of removed any pretense for new players to get involved at a number of levels. A bit like the gulf of difference and expectations between all of the casual players and the ACM addicts.
It's been some years since I've watched someone on text get laughed at for telling everyone he's uber because of that number next to his ID in the roster. Drop troops to take a few towns, shoot a few tanks with a GV and land those kills. Drop a few bombs with a bomber. Resupply the HQ a few times and your spawn camping mates. Make sure you fly conservatively and land your fighter after every sortie. Your score will stay low. Meh......and not a lot of fun. Fun for the casual players is a gulf of difference from the ACM crowd. They don't define themselves by any single aspect of the game other than "am I having fun".
The accomplishments are kind of silly but, have more relevance to our current game played by the casual players. It's not something you have to man up and defend all the time like old west gunfighters in movies making a name for themselves. At least with the accomplishments acting as a self imposed informal challenge. You don't run into the level of finessing that happened back when Frenchy offered a prize at the end of his famous "Frenchy Challenge".
If you attempt to hold up ACM as the alpha and omega of the AH experience. Then complain and point fingers at the other 95% of players, who will be casual gamers no matter the MMO, as some kind of "Zerg" blight on your AH experience. What are you showing about your personal lack of flexibility and man up ability to change?
This post has parallels to the corner bar where the regulars drive off new customers in a slow economy because they have forgotten the owner is running a business.
What's he saying? :old:
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But you could do it in succession. They can't be picking their stick up by the base and randomly shaking it or the 'don't move your controls too rapidly' would catch them. They surely also can't accelerate away doing this. It's a trivial matter to use your superior energy to generate some AoT for a bigger target.
The "porpoise" maneuver described involves a rapid exchange of neg and positive Gs. I am skeptical of how much of this a real pilot could/would endure, and it is nigh impossible to hit.
I'm not really sure what the complaint is here, I think it's just that they are not giving the instant gratification of easy kills. Some of these floobs will catch a highly skilled player in this position one day and find out it's like having a tiger by the tail, when they get their hands bitten off even when holding all the cards they'll have something to complain about :old:
Floob muddied the point by mocking these maneuvers while at the same time acting as if they never give him any trouble...Well, I'm willing to admit I've trained with some of the best at the overshoot game like Bat, and such ACM can be countered by more ACM, while the landed trout maneuver *still* gives me and others trouble, particularly if the purpose is to delay, delay, delay while his buddy is creeping up your six. I think the parameters for getting a "don't move your stick so rapidly" lockup should be more strict.
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The "porpoise" maneuver described involves a rapid exchange of neg and positive Gs. I am skeptical of how much of this a real pilot could/would endure, and it is nigh impossible to hit.
Excellent. The porpoise maneuver: coming soon to a G-14 near you.
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I'm fairly certain the snap-roll and the SINGLE hard negative G pushover ("bunt") were known evasives
Hartmann, the highest scorer in WWII, wrote or said that his first response to an unseen jump was a negative G push and a boot full of rudder.
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While not a fan of stick stirring, the only defensive maneuver I really dislike is the sudden disappearance of a plane that is growing larger in my gunsight which magically reappears behind me in perfect firing position. How does that happen?
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Hartmann, the highest scorer in WWII, wrote or said that his first response to an unseen jump was a negative G push and a boot full of rudder.
Yep. I pointed this out several pages ago...you are forgiven for not seeing it as this is becoming a long thread. ;)
Please go here:
http://www.1jg51.net/jg51/LwTactics.html (http://www.1jg51.net/jg51/LwTactics.html)
About half way down, look for the following:
"ERICH HARTMANN'S "LAST DITCH" EVASION MANEUVER"
Please read the description.
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The Dweeb flew before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity of Dweebishness which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern AHers ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Bosch of the Kaiser reverenced in their statue devil;—Floob did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred Moby Dweeb, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all the flip-flopping and stalling and bunts and evasions; all evil, to crazy Floob, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in the Moby Dweeb. He piled upon the Dweeb’s cockpit the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Boelcke down; and then, as if his chest had been a cannon, he burst his hot heart's 20mm shell upon it.
FLOOB: ...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
:devil
Pikey talk?
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While not a fan of stick stirring, the only defensive maneuver I really dislike is the sudden disappearance of a plane that is growing larger in my gunsight which magically reappears behind me in perfect firing position. How does that happen?
Its the lag roll man. When an enemy is chasing you , you go in a nose down turn. Most of the time they will follow you. Since you are going slower and are in a better angle turn than the enemy, you have the opportunity to either A. Get them to black out for a split second, B. Get them to make a incredibly hard lead shot allowing them to have to aim higher while losing site of you. At the perfect timing you lift up cut a bit of throttle and do a reverse roll ( in the opposite way of the nose down turn) and you can roll over their plane. If the enemy is unsuspecting, while they were blacked out or leading you they completely lost site of you as you do the roll over. And you gain a nice spot right on their 6. Best move in the game. Takes practice though!
PS. Its very important to learn ACM. You will always gain the lead on some chump who is trying to HO you, you become a much better overall stick in the MA causing you to get more kills and lands, you can manage your and others E much better, and you have a better chance at getting away from or killing BnZers, and your level of game play will improve. I think ACM is the most important technical aspect of the game. And you can use these maneuvers in every single plane.
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Its the lag roll man. When an enemy is chasing you , you go in a nose down turn. Most of the time they will follow you. Since you are going slower and are in a better angle turn than the enemy, you have the opportunity to either A. Get them to black out for a split second, B. Get them to make a incredibly hard lead shot allowing them to have to aim higher while losing site of you. At the perfect timing you lift up cut a bit of throttle and do a reverse roll ( in the opposite way of the nose down turn) and you can roll over their plane. If the enemy is unsuspecting, while they were blacked out or leading you they completely lost site of you as you do the roll over. And you gain a nice spot right on their 6. Best move in the game. Takes practice though!
PS. Its very important to learn ACM. You will always gain the lead on some chump who is trying to HO you, you become a much better overall stick in the MA causing you to get more kills and lands, you can manage your and others E much better, and you have a better chance at getting away from or killing BnZers, and your level of game play will improve. I think ACM is the most important technical aspect of the game. And you can use these maneuvers in every single plane.
You misunderstand. I know about lag rolls. I'm talking about a plane that literally disappears, only to reappear at my six. There is no acm involved. The plane in my sights didn't maneuver - it disappeared. Funny thing is it's only happened twice and both times the same player on different days.
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You misunderstand. I know about lag rolls. I'm talking about a plane that literally disappears, only to reappear at my six. There is no acm involved. The plane in my sights didn't maneuver - it disappeared. Funny thing is it's only happened twice and both times the same player on different days.
That could be a different kind of lag entirely .... mixed with coincidence.
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Its the lag roll man. When an enemy is chasing you , you go in a nose down turn. Most of the time they will follow you. Since you are going slower and are in a better angle turn than the enemy, you have the opportunity to either A. Get them to black out for a split second, B. Get them to make a incredibly hard lead shot allowing them to have to aim higher while losing site of you. At the perfect timing you lift up cut a bit of throttle and do a reverse roll ( in the opposite way of the nose down turn) and you can roll over their plane. If the enemy is unsuspecting, while they were blacked out or leading you they completely lost site of you as you do the roll over. And you gain a nice spot right on their 6. Best move in the game. Takes practice though!
PS. Its very important to learn ACM. You will always gain the lead on some chump who is trying to HO you, you become a much better overall stick in the MA causing you to get more kills and lands, you can manage your and others E much better, and you have a better chance at getting away from or killing BnZers, and your level of game play will improve. I think ACM is the most important technical aspect of the game. And you can use these maneuvers in every single plane.
I think he's referring to "lag" as in network lag...i.e the enemy warps behind him all Star Trek-like.
That being said, this is a great description of the combat maneuver. :salute
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While not a fan of stick stirring, the only defensive maneuver I really dislike is the sudden disappearance of a plane that is growing larger in my gunsight which magically reappears behind me in perfect firing position. How does that happen?
I could tell you but Skuzzy would quash and supress - and ,yes , it really ticks me off. I saw it twice with some arscheklown who actually apologized, probably as he was peeing 'em from snickering. Thing is: people who do that whould soon grow bored. After all, what's the challenge?
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I should add,thanks, Violator - and no, I don't confuse the cheater with the lag-roller. You're entirely correct about the move being a hard one to time, though.
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I should add,thanks, Violator - and no, I don't confuse the cheater with the lag-roller. You're entirely correct about the move being a hard one to time, though.
Thanks
As far as timing goes. Pull up and over as the enemy is comeing down on you just before you would go level. Since he is following you, you have the first move, so he has to compensate for every move you do. If you pull up and over while he is pulling Gs going down, he won't be able to compensate as quickly and you can make the roll around or get in a rolling scissors. If done right it is almost like you did lag onto their 6 because they won't even see where you went until too late.
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Ruaml is a living aimbot apparently, probably the best vulcher in the game, but unimpressive when it is you on his six.
That's just like me! (Except not the parts about being good at aiming or vulching).
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Thanks
As far as timing goes. Pull up and over as the enemy is comeing down on you just before you would go level. Since he is following you, you have the first move, so he has to compensate for every move you do. If you pull up and over while he is pulling Gs going down, he won't be able to compensate as quickly and you can make the roll around or get in a rolling scissors. If done right it is almost like you did lag onto their 6 because they won't even see where you went until too late.
That's a good point, I kind of figured the rolling scissor to be the fail safe. I can honestly say I've only done tat just right once. I was in a d-9 and got bounced by a jug. I used rudder and aileron to try to get the overshoot and he followed suit. It took several revs of carefully changing my elevator to try to maintain as much alt as I could, all while watching this jug stay in the same place in my canopy. It was like magic. The ground was starting to approach, probably because the axis of my helix was curving down. It was a little before the time I came around and pulled up -away from the ground - that I heard the explosion and saw the message. I had expected to eat it before him but he might've been carrying a lot of fuel or something. I was relatively light for a d-9, at the time.
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Double reply fail on Golden Dragon. 1 Fail for the content, and 1 fail for including his reply in the quote.
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I must but concure, Floob....his whine was painful to note, when he his-self admits he'd get bounced out....if 1/2 what he pre-supposes is true than his 'luck' is pity-ful. TRy to rise above, grasshopper, our the 'mower' will slice you on his next pass...
JGroth
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I have hang-nails..perhaps I should post here complaining of same...
JGroth
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Now that I'm approaching my dotage, when I see a pilot flying weirdly, I climb out and fly away. I just won't put up with it.
Apparently I don't fly wierdly then, seeing as you murder me nearly every time you see me :ahand :cry