Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Slate on August 01, 2014, 07:35:18 AM
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Well the Center of Disease Control is allowing 2 Doctors that have contracted the Ebola Virus to be brought to the US and treated in Atlanta Georgia.
It is just insanity not to try to keep this deadly outbreak confined to Africa until a possible treatment is found. Also several hundred aide workers are being brought back with known exposure to an infected individual.
Don't worry they have this finely constructed device. :rolleyes:
(http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/d0nwaters/Ebolatent_zps947a8476.jpg) (http://s665.photobucket.com/user/d0nwaters/media/Ebolatent_zps947a8476.jpg.html)
More reason to stay inside and play Aces High.
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There is something fishy going on with this mess for sure. Who in their right mind would allow these individuals to return? Smoke and mirrors..
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I suspect they are trying to get more doctors to volunteer to contain this outbreak before it goes global. Abandoning infected doctors in Africa probably wouldn't help this.
Ebola is carried via a patient's fluids like AIDS, it is not an airborne threat. The risk is not so much from known sufferers like these unfortunates, but on someone arriving on an airliner with a "cold" and giving it to carers or sexual partners.
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Come on folks, are conspiracy theories the only defense to trying to save AMERICANS who have given their all to help people who are dying? There's no difference between them and soldiers who have given their all in a foreign country. Opposing helping them is defenseless.
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Now I have a reson to buy that hazmat suit I always wanted... And to Copprhed, would you like to contract Ebola when it could be at least contained to a small area? I ain't trying to start a fight, but this seems like a poor idea. Just my thoughts.
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It's no more contagious than the aids virus, so that's a crock. You have to physically contact BODILY FLUIDS with a cut to contract it. Fear is no excuse to deny the best help possible for those who risk all to help others. Denying them help is frankly, inhuman.
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Right . . . so we leave 'em in Africa. Sheesh. I think the guy who wrote Lord of the Flies was right based on much of what I read in the O'Club.
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There is something fishy going on with this mess for sure. Who in their right mind would allow these individuals to return? Smoke and mirrors..
I heard from the dentist of the guy who cuts the lawn of the accountant for one of the IT guys at the NSC that they're bringing them back to try and weaponize it. :old:
;)
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It's no more contagious than the aids virus, so that's a crock. You have to physically contact BODILY FLUIDS with a cut to contract it. Fear is no excuse to deny the best help possible for those who risk all to help others. Denying them help is frankly, inhuman.
Did the doctor and the aid worker have a cut?
This strain of Ebola is said to have a 90% mortality rate. If they haven't arrived in the US by now, they are dead persons 'walking'.
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I suspect they are trying to get more doctors to volunteer to contain this outbreak before it goes global. Abandoning infected doctors in Africa probably wouldn't help this.
I'll bet everyone a sandwich that this is very high on the list of things that compelled the CDC to allow them back.
On a side note, has anyone ever read The Hot Zone? You should. Excellent story of what might happen if Ebola ever broke out here. Steven King went so far as to call it one of the most horrifying things he's read in his whole life.
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Yes, Ebola is a blood transmitted virus like HIV, but it is a hemorrhagic disease. Unlike AIDS, when Ebola victims crash they bleed from every body orifice, even the eyes.
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Holy crap, I just found my copy of the Hot Zone, and it was a true story.
If you want to inform yourself on this disease, buy this book. Five bucks on Amazon Kindle. Crazy true story.
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Two quarantined ebola patients is nothing compared to the diseased illegals being allowed to come across our southern boarder.
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Skuzzy, please lock this, the nutcases are out.
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Two Doctors who should know the precautions in treating an infectious disease were infected.
There is a real risk here. You can hope they will take better precautions when they arrive in the US.
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Skuzzy, please lock this, the nutcases are out.
Hi :)
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The idea that there are AMERICANS who would abandon other AMERICANS, when those same people would be incredibly up in arms if it were a soldier being abandoned, is beyond heinous. These doctors deserve every bit as much, and in the eyes of God are probably MORE deserving. ( Admittedly stolen from a speech by the Ghost of Christmas Past for Dickens' A Christmas Carol) The risks involved surely have been considered by the CDC, and ignorant blather about fictional books is no excuse for the type of inhumanity that is being advocated in this thread. Sometimes it's really difficult to wrap my head around the concept that there are actually people who are like this.
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The idea that there are AMERICANS who would abandon other AMERICANS, when those same people would be incredibly up in arms if it were a soldier being abandoned, is beyond heinous. These doctors deserve every bit as much, and in the eyes of God are probably MORE deserving. ( Admittedly stolen from a speech by the Ghost of Christmas Past for Dickens' A Christmas Carol) The risks involved surely have been considered by the CDC, and ignorant blather about fictional books is no excuse for the type of inhumanity that is being advocated in this thread. Sometimes it's really difficult to wrap my head around the concept that there are actually people who are like this.
Who says to abandon them to their fate? We can't set up the same medical facilities in Africa? There are more patients to study there including the 10% who survived the disease. Yes they are being brought over because their fellow Doctors are bias. Some people are deserving and some aren't is what I hear you say.
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This is looking more and more like a train wreck and not a discussion.
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Who says to abandon them to their fate? We can't set up the same medical facilities in Africa? There are more patients to study there including the 10% who survived the disease. Yes they are being brought over because their fellow Doctors are bias. Some people are deserving and some aren't is what I hear you say.
You would absolutely have a different opinion if it were your father or mother or brother or child.
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It's no more contagious than the aids virus, so that's a crock. You have to physically contact BODILY FLUIDS with a cut to contract it. Fear is no excuse to deny the best help possible for those who risk all to help others. Denying them help is frankly, inhuman.
Not exact. It also spread through mucous membrane and broken skin. If an infected person coughs or sneezes you can be infected by inhaling droplets which are absorbed through the mucous membranes in your nose or mouth.
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Not exact. It also spread through mucous membrane and broken skin. If an infected person coughs or sneezes you can be infected by inhaling droplets which are absorbed through the mucous membranes in your nose or mouth.
That is true but also remember North America is very inhospitable to that disease. I trust that bring these Ebola victims to the USA is being taken care of with highest level of precaution. Besides the Center of Diesease Control get these type of disease and other plagues mailed to them in the mail( tubes of contaminated blood)
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You would absolutely have a different opinion if it were your father or mother or brother or child.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you, these people should NOT be left out in the cold, by any means, and if the only way to care for them is to bring them here, we should certainly do so.
But as Slate said, have we looked into building medical facilities in Africa? That might actually be more beneficial to treat them there, so we can also study the survivors of the disease.
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There has already been an outbreak on American soil. Google "Reston's Hot Zone - 20 Years later." Scientific journal article recounting the 3 month ebola outbreak in Reston, Virginia. Recounts the true story of how the ebola virus mutated into a new virulent form and broke out of containment at a medical testing facility in an industrial park in suburban Virginia. The government came in and had to cook the entire building with formaldehyde vapor for three days to kill it. The mutated virus was given a new name - Ebola Reston.
http://ispub.com/IJPRM/2/1/12768
And guess what they built on the property after they demolished the quarantine facility that had the ebola outbreak: a day care center. :confused:
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Two quarantined ebola patients is nothing compared to the diseased illegals being allowed to come across our southern boarder.
Excellent point. It all goes back to my smoke an mirrors statement. "Hey yall look over here while this goes on over there." The questions should be, what is the motive behind the scare? Whose agenda does it fit?
This has nothing to do with duck hunting so therefore I can be of no more benefit to this thread.
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I cannot comment on any of this. I don't want the risk of being ruled anything. :noid
This is looking more and more like a train wreck and not a discussion.
Then +1 to post count, AND:
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/UnkShadow/InBeforeTheLock-1.gif)
:D
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I think it is best that these patients stay outside the US. That does not mean abandoning them, but the disease is uncontrollable with a 90+% mortality rate. Dr. Margaret Chan of the WHO has said, "This outbreak is moving faster than our efforts to control it. If the situation continues to deteriorate, the consequences can be catastrophic in terms of lost lives but also severe socioeconomic disruption and a high risk of spread to other countries."
Further, Dr. Tom Frieden of the CDC admits there is an effective treatment. "We do not have effective treatment or vaccine for Ebola. There is no proven treatment. There is no proven vaccine. There is not likely to be one for at least a year, even in the best case scenario. We are not going to treat or vaccinate our way out of these outbreaks. We are going to use the traditional means that work of case identification, isolation, contact tracing, health communication, good meticulous management. That's what has stopped every Ebola outbreak that's ever happened before. That's what will stop this Ebola outbreak."
Now, I do not support abandoning these people, but bringing them here where it is not 100% certain that the disease can be contained is simply a risk we do not need. Send Doctors there, especially considering the deadly nature.
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Patients will not stay out of the United States. They are going to come here because they want the best medical treatment they can get and it is right here. If you do not let them come in illegally they will come in illegally and without the safeguards you can have in place if they are coming in legally. Also, these doctors and others that are risking everything to help them surely knew that they would be able to return to the US if they got infected. Who will go to help those that need it if you know you won't be allowed back? If there is no one going to help those infected, the contagion will absolutely spread until it kills everyone it can. You have to stop it now while you still can.
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CDC has it covered. Bring them home.....now
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CDC has it covered.
:headscratch: :huh :noid
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I wonder under what law the US authorities can deny a US citizen entry?
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:headscratch: :huh :noid
Why so confused? Pretty straight forward
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As infection accelerates, some aid groups are pulling out to protect their own.
Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the CDC, said that even in a best-case scenario, it could take three to six months to stem the epidemic in West Africa.
Does not sound like they have it covered in Africa.
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As infection accelerates, some aid groups are pulling out to protect their own.
Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the CDC, said that even in a best-case scenario, it could take three to six months to stem the epidemic in West Africa.
Does not sound like they have it covered in Africa.
My appologies I thought we were talking about bringing the Americans home
3 to 6 months is not bad at all. Pretty darn good if u ask me.
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Meanwhile how many American citizens die a day as a result of cancer? How about we start racing for the cause instead of the cure? What? Money? Ahhh.
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Meanwhile how many American citizens die a day as a result of cancer? How about we start racing for the cause instead of the cure? What? Money? Ahhh.
I'd guess cancer is one of the most, if not THE most heavily researched disease (including money). Or better, group of diseases, because there is a myriad of different "cancers" with as many (and complex) origins. There's not "the cancer" with "that cause".
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"Nutcases" copprhed? what's with the name calling of those that disagree with you? They don't have a right to their/an opinion?
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"Nutcases" copprhed? what's with the name calling of those that disagree with you? They don't have a right to their/an opinion?
It's my opinion of those who would deny an AMERICAN the best care we can offer, HERE in THEIR own country, especially ones who have given it all to help those in need. Would you deny entrance to a Marine? Or your FATHER?
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For the most part, viruses can't 'survive' very long outside of a host. Viruses are actually non-living, and to my knowledge none have the ability to form a protective wall like bacteria are able.
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Not exact. It also spread through mucous membrane and broken skin. If an infected person coughs or sneezes you can be infected by inhaling droplets which are absorbed through the mucous membranes in your nose or mouth.
Yep;, can move airborne also; I read about this test done by University of Manitoba; Ebola transmits from pigs to monkeys without contact:
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/33277/title/Ebola-from-Pigs-to-Monkeys/
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Ebola is more contagious than hiv. It's also less insidious and therefore more containable than hiv. The outbrake is kind of a disgrace.
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"New York City Conducts Largest Ever Surprise Bioterror Response Dril"
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/health-department-conducts-largest-no-notice-emergency-response-drill-in-nyc-history/
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Holy crap, I just found my copy of the Hot Zone, and it was a true story.
If you want to inform yourself on this disease, buy this book. Five bucks on Amazon Kindle. Crazy true story.
Good book. :aok
You might want to checkout "Biohazard". It's a book about the soviet counterpart of the US Army unit in "The Hot Zone".
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This ugly demonic looking creatures are the only known natural host; from fruit bats is spreading to animals and humans:. I understand they are considered special delicatessen in Africa.
(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00562/83ebb85e-bc1e-11e3-_562888c.jpg)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/africa/article4054794.ece
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The airborne transmission angle gives me cause for concern. There are a number of people on this board who are way smarter than the average person and I'd like to see what their take is. There's a bunch of stuff I just ran through on a Google search that I can't just take at face value.
Insofar as bringing US citizens who have contracted the disease home I think they should be brought to the best care that they can get so long as proper precautions are taken.
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well I sure hope they take all precautions that they possibly can, twice over.... that is most definitely something we don't need over here.
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Vigilant quarantine is the best tool we have against the spread of ebola. Which means not transporting ebola and the people who harbor it, as harsh as that may seem. It's a very containable disease because of the rapid onset of symptoms. Having said that, in the absence of any ebola immunization it's going to spread to other continents. Maybe not now, maybe not ten years from now, maybe not fifty. But it's an eventuality as long as our only countermeasure is isolation.
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Don't let this worry you guys. Just pay attention and pray for those who have it. :pray
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/08/01/why-youre-not-going-to-get-ebola-in-the-u-s/
“This is a tragic, painful, dreadful, merciless virus. It is the largest, most complex outbreak that we know of in history,” Frieden said. “We at CDC are surging our response along with others. Although it will not be quick and it will not be easy, we do know how to stop Ebola."
EDIT: Oh and this is only spread through bodily fluids. So unless you're a vampire, drinking from a sewer, or just french kissing somebody who's contracted it, you're fine.
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There is risk in transporting infected people. How much depends. It depends on communicability, lethality if infected, whether or not there is effective treatment, and safeguards. Ebola is highly lethal, with no good treatments -- so you can't get much worse there. The only "good" thing is that, while it is obviously communicable, for various reasons, it isn't as communicable as influenza, TB, syphilis, etc. However, it does have an incubation time of 2-20 days, during which an infected individual is asymptomatic and for at least some of it is infectious.
This is all fine if no one else gets infected and spreads it to other people. Odds of that are high.
This is all not fine if someone gets it and starts spreading it to others. Odds of that are low. But not zero. Keep in mind that the doctors who got infected surely know the ways to safeguard themselves against infection, yet got infected.
So, is it a good decision to do it or a bad one? Different people will have different answers to that. It's like flipping a coin 20 times. If you get tails 20 times in a row, you are dead. If you don't get 20 tails in a row, you get X. For some value of X, the gamble is worth it to some people and not to others.
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So much unfounded fearmongering. The mortality rate is high, 40-80%. They are bringing the doctors here because they are Americans and deserve the best care and the best chance for life. But the fearmongering is unfounded because its actually hard to transmit the disease. Its not infectious before symptoms show. Its only transmitted by bodily fluids. Don't drink their blood or have sex with these two doctors, and you'll be fine. Most of you are hypocrites anyways, if you were infected, you wouldn't give a damn about anyone else, you'd want to have the best medical care available. You hypocrites have my disrespect.
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So much unfounded fearmongering. The mortality rate is high, 40-80%. They are bringing the doctors here because they are Americans and deserve the best care and the best chance for life. But the fearmongering is unfounded because its actually hard to transmit the disease. Its not infectious before symptoms show. Its only transmitted by bodily fluids. Don't drink their blood or have sex with these two doctors, and you'll be fine. Most of you are hypocrites anyways, if you were infected, you wouldn't give a damn about anyone else, you'd want to have the best medical care available. You hypocrites have my disrespect.
I disagree. I think most of us would not want to bring ebola home. There are sources stating that it is droplet transmissible and contractible through inhalation. I hope they're wrong, but it makes sense if the theory about monkeys getting it from the saliva of fruitbats is true. Which would mean it's not just a bloodborne pathogen like hiv.
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its actually hard to transmit the disease.
Unfortunately, not hard enough for the doctors (who likely know all the appropriate precautions) to avoid getting it.
Its not infectious before symptoms show. Its only transmitted by bodily fluids.
Yes, any fluid that contains the virus is infectious. So, during incubation time, blood itself (having virus in it) would be infectious -- but (at least in early stages of incubation) not yet feces, urine, vomit, semen, saliva, etc. Interestingly, for people who survive, it has been noted that semen contains the virus up to 60 days after onset of infection.
Whether or not to bring them to the US is not my decision -- it's the decision of the people involved. If it were my decision alone, I would need a lot more information before knowing what is best.
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I heard from the dentist of the guy who cuts the lawn of the accountant for one of the IT guys at the NSC that they're bringing them back to try and weaponize it. :old:
;)
I heard this as well :old:
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If the Zaire or ivory coast variants ever mutate to being able to be transmitted by air, we're in a lot of trouble.
Of course, this may take thousands of years.
Ironic that the nasty monkey virus types that have made the cross species jump to humans all showed up in the exact same area where Hilary Koprowski used various monkey kidneys (including chimp kidneys) as a substrate to grow his polio vaccine........which was later used untested on various tribes.
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For those that don't know Emory is a medical school as well as research hospital. One of the top medical places in the country and Atlanta is home to the CDC. There is no worries here in GA.
I would think the worse case for us would be for the disease to spread to Latin America or the Caribbean.
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A little better quote on the book "The Hot Zone", which recounts the true story of the 1989 ebola outbreak at the privately owned Reston Primate Quarantine Unit in suburban Virginia:
"The first chapter of The Hot Zone is one of the most horrifying things I've ever read in my whole life . And then it gets worse." - author Steven King
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All this stuff about Ebola only being as communicable as HIV is BS, it's spin. If it were true Ebola wouldn't require level 4 biocontainment.
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we do know how to stop Ebola."
Yeah and they said nuclear energy was safe too. They once said cigarettes were actually good for you. For years they infected people with the blood supply even tho there was ample evidence how AIDs was transmitted.
I dont believe them. And what can we possibly do for the victims here that couldnt be done "there"? By all means the 1st world needs to support these countries but why bring it here? They knew their chances when they went.
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It was encouraging to see that at least the male patient was able to walk into Emory under his own power. A little freaky that the cops closed down the highway for the ambulance, though.
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Did you notice that the people in contact with him are in positive pressure suits as per cdc guidlines for level 4 pathogen safety.
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i just unwrapped a burger king bacon cheeseburger.
:aok
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i just unwrapped a burger king bacon cheeseburger.
:aok
Probably worse than ebola.
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i just unwrapped a burger king bacon cheeseburger.
:aok
:rofl
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http://video.pbs.org/video/2365321806/
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is it safe to come out, did anyone survive?
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Ebola is a deadly virus but can be passes in only certain ways. Never hurts to b over cautious. Also right now they believe the leading cause of spreading is Moter bike taxis according to Vice new.
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From Dr. Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, in today's print edition of the New York Times:
"There are two possible future chapters to this story that should keep us up at night.
The first possibility is that the Ebola virus spreads from West Africa to megacities in other regions of the developing world. . . .
The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air. . . .
In 2012, a team of Canadian researchers proved that Ebola Zaire, the same virus that is causing the West Africa outbreak, could be transmitted by the respiratory route from pigs to monkeys, both of whose lungs are very similar to those of humans. Richard Preston’s 1994 best seller “The Hot Zone” chronicled a 1989 outbreak of a different strain, Ebola Reston virus, among monkeys at a quarantine station near Washington. The virus was transmitted through breathing, and the outbreak ended only when all the monkeys were euthanized. We must consider that such transmissions could happen between humans, if the virus mutates."
More background on Osterholm:
Dr. Osterholm is director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), a professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, University of Minnesota. He is also a member of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) of the National Academy of Sciences and the Council of Foreign Relations. In June 2005 Dr. Osterholm was appointed by Michael Leavitt, Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), to the newly established National Science Advisory Board on Biosecurity. In July 2008, he was named to the University of Minnesota Academic Health Center’s Academy of Excellence in Health Research. In October 2008, he was appointed to the World Economic Forum Working Group on Pandemics.
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They're ancious to research Ebola to see if they can weaponize it. If a solid cure is found, chances are that NSA agents are going to make the researchers disappear silently. :rock
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Bioweapons don't stay where you deploy them, and they can be as dangerous to the initiator as to the target after a bit. Nevertheless, there have been nations that worked extensively on them, especially the former Soviet Union and continuing in Russia. Bioweapons are much easier to create than nuclear weapons. There countries other than Russia that people suspect (based either on outright statements from officials in the country or on intelligence data) have bioweapons programs including China, Iran, North Korea, and Syria ( https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/cbwprolif ).
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From Dr. Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, in today's print edition of the New York Times:
"There are two possible future chapters to this story that should keep us up at night.
The first possibility is that the Ebola virus spreads from West Africa to megacities in other regions of the developing world. . . .
The second possibility is one that virologists are loath to discuss openly but are definitely considering in private: that an Ebola virus could mutate to become transmissible through the air. . . .
In 2012, a team of Canadian researchers proved that Ebola Zaire, the same virus that is causing the West Africa outbreak, could be transmitted by the respiratory route from pigs to monkeys, both of whose lungs are very similar to those of humans. Richard Preston’s 1994 best seller “The Hot Zone” chronicled a 1989 outbreak of a different strain, Ebola Reston virus, among monkeys at a quarantine station near Washington. The virus was transmitted through breathing, and the outbreak ended only when all the monkeys were euthanized. We must consider that such transmissions could happen between humans, if the virus mutates."
More background on Osterholm:
Dr. Osterholm is director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), a professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, University of Minnesota. He is also a member of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) of the National Academy of Sciences and the Council of Foreign Relations. In June 2005 Dr. Osterholm was appointed by Michael Leavitt, Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), to the newly established National Science Advisory Board on Biosecurity. In July 2008, he was named to the University of Minnesota Academic Health Center’s Academy of Excellence in Health Research. In October 2008, he was appointed to the World Economic Forum Working Group on Pandemics.
Read Tom Clancy's Executive Orders
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They're ancious to research Ebola to see if they can weaponize it. If a solid cure is found, chances are that NSA agents are going to make the researchers disappear silently. :rock
Marburg, which is basically ebola has already been weaponized.
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Bioweapons don't stay where you deploy them, and they can be as dangerous to the initiator as to the target after a bit. Nevertheless, there have been nations that worked extensively on them, especially the former Soviet Union and continuing in Russia. Bioweapons are much easier to create than nuclear weapons. There countries other than Russia that people suspect (based either on outright statements from officials in the country or on intelligence data) have bioweapons programs including China, Iran, North Korea, and Syria ( https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/cbwprolif ).
Yep. The best bioweapons are the ones that aren't very contagious. That's why so much developement has gone into anthrax weapons. The soviets allegedly manufactured tons of it for deployment in icbm warheads.
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1st case of ebola in US (Dallas):
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/first-case-ebola-diagnosed-u-s-cdc-confirms-n215231
Yep, it's wise to keep travel open to ebola hot zones. What could go wrong?
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I'd rather our epidemiologists be more careful.
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I'm ok (so far).
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I'd rather our epidemiologists be more careful.
I don't understand what you mean.
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I'm ok (so far).
Best to put off that planned visit to Liberia, though.
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I don't understand what you mean.
They exposed themselves to the virus they were studying.
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Best to put off that planned visit to Liberia, though.
Don't you mean Texas?
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Don't you mean Texas?
I'm in Texas. 5 ft from Dallas county.
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1st case of ebola in US (Dallas):
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/first-case-ebola-diagnosed-u-s-cdc-confirms-n215231
Yep, it's wise to keep travel open to ebola hot zones. What could go wrong?
:O :huh :confused::pray
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They exposed themselves to the virus they were studying.
Oh. Yep, they probably very much wish that, too.
However, the news I posted isn't about health-care workers who got ebola in Africa and, once noticeably sick, were medevacced to the US under biowarfare-level precautions.
This is about a normal person taking a normal passenger flight (full of other passengers) from Liberia to the US. Then, after being being here with family and interacting with people for 6 days, feeling ill enough to go to the hospital, and -- get this -- being admitted only 2 days after that, finally to find out that he or she has ebola.
This is a whole different league.
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I was reading this morning on The Extinction protocol ; "U.S. quietly preparing for Ebola outbreak: CDC issues Ebola guidelines for U.S. funeral homes – how to dispose of bodies"
after all the blahh, bs, they were hiding the truth , I believe the virus is transmitting airborne;
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/u-s-quietly-preparing-for-ebola-outbreak-cdc-issues-ebola-guidelines-for-u-s-funeral-homes-how-to-dispose-of-bodies/
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Maybe we'll be lucky, and Dallas Patient Zero won't have infected anyone else among the hundred other airline passengers, the bunch of people in the airport, the health-care/secretarial staff in the hospital visits, the other people in any emergency rooms visited, the patrons or staff in any restaurants or shops visited or any restrooms visited in the preceding 8 days in Dallas, etc.
Think of it as an experiment in idiocy. What will happen? Maybe nothing. But "Just because you walk into a fireworks factory with a lit match and get away with it doesn't mean you aren't an idiot." (John Mauldin)
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I don't think it's airborne yet, or we'd be seeing huge upswings in infections and death that would be impossible to miss (or, for those with suspicious minds, to cover up).
The fear, though, is that -- because mutation to airborne transmissibility can happen (and in fact has happened for strains that infect pigs and monkeys) -- it will happen. Then the world is in big, big trouble.
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http://qz.com/273972/stay-calm-and-carry-on-why-its-nearly-impossible-for-ebola-to-spread-in-the-us/
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Oh. Yep, they probably very much wish that, too.
However, the news I posted isn't about health-care workers who got ebola in Africa and, once noticeably sick, were medevacced to the US under biowarfare-level precautions.
I remember reading this last month;
"Report: Armed men attack Liberia Ebola clinic, freeing patients" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-armed-men-attack-liberia-ebola-clinic-freeing-patients/
"The attack comes just one day after a report of a crowd of several hundred local residents, chanting, 'No Ebola in West Point,' drove away a burial team and their police escort that had come to collect the bodies of suspected Ebola victims in the slum in the capital, Reuters reports.
West Point residents went on a "looting spree," stealing items from the clinic that were likely infected, said a senior police official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the press. The residents took medical equipment and mattresses and sheets that had bloodstains, he said. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids including blood, vomit, feces and sweat."
who would steal a mattresses and sheets with bloodstains?
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who would steal a mattresses and sheets with bloodstains?
Someone who didn't have a mattress or sheets.
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Ebola patients buying survivors' blood from black market, WHO warns
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/18/health/ebola-blood-black-market/
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http://qz.com/273972/stay-calm-and-carry-on-why-its-nearly-impossible-for-ebola-to-spread-in-the-us/
i was hoping to read about environmental difficulties for the virus to survive. not much more than my assumption it lives at 98.6 degrees in animal fluid. :uhoh
um,... if I cough, I make the virus Airborne in a mist. if that mist lands in your eye before the virus dehydrates and denatures, havent you been infected by Air?
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I don't think it's airborne yet, or we'd be seeing huge upswings in infections and death that would be impossible to miss (or, for those with suspicious minds, to cover up).
The fear, though, is that -- because mutation to airborne transmissibility can happen (and in fact has happened for strains that infect pigs and monkeys) -- it will happen. Then the world is in big, big trouble.
interesting video uploaded yesterday on YouTube;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5VR0Mz4lys
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What's be postulated in this thread is spread via artificial means.
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I don't think it's airborne yet, or we'd be seeing huge upswings in infections and death that would be impossible to miss (or, for those with suspicious minds, to cover up).
The fear, though, is that -- because mutation to airborne transmissibility can happen (and in fact has happened for strains that infect pigs and monkeys) -- it will happen. Then the world is in big, big trouble.
Airborne is a technical term. The Flu isn't airborne either.
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Plague was also reported last week in Arizona, Flagstaff; they tested fleas after massive prairie dogs die off; this video warns people walking dogs/cats outdoors; the disease can go fr9m fleas to pets and humans;
"Fleas test positive for plague at Doney Park near Flagstaff;"
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-northern-az/flagstaff/official-fleas-test-positive-for-plague-at-doney-park-near-flagstaff
plague; killed 1/3 of Europe population and 1/2 of China's population few centuries ago;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_(disease)
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Airborne is a technical term. The Flu isn't airborne either.
Actually, it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
Influenza can be spread in three main ways:[71][72] by direct transmission (when an infected person sneezes mucus directly into the eyes, nose or mouth of another person); the airborne route (when someone inhales the aerosols produced by an infected person coughing, sneezing or spitting) and through hand-to-eye, hand-to-nose, or hand-to-mouth transmission, either from contaminated surfaces or from direct personal contact such as a hand-shake. The relative importance of these three modes of transmission is unclear, and they may all contribute to the spread of the virus.[4][73] In the airborne route, the droplets that are small enough for people to inhale are 0.5 to 5 µm in diameter and inhaling just one droplet might be enough to cause an infection.[71] Although a single sneeze releases up to 40,000 droplets,[74] most of these droplets are quite large and will quickly settle out of the air.[71] How long influenza survives in airborne droplets seems to be influenced by the levels of humidity and UV radiation, with low humidity and a lack of sunlight in winter aiding its survival.[71]
As the influenza virus can persist outside of the body, it can also be transmitted by contaminated surfaces such as banknotes,[75] doorknobs, light switches and other household items.[2] The length of time the virus will persist on a surface varies, with the virus surviving for one to two days on hard, non-porous surfaces such as plastic or metal, for about fifteen minutes from dry paper tissues, and only five minutes on skin.[76] However, if the virus is present in mucus, this can protect it for longer periods (up to 17 days on banknotes).[71][75] Avian influenza viruses can survive indefinitely when frozen.[77] They are inactivated by heating to 56 °C (133 °F) for a minimum of 60 minutes, as well as by acids (at pH <2).[77]
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Two Doctors who should know the precautions in treating an infectious disease were infected.
There is a real risk here. You can hope they will take better precautions when they arrive in the US.
This:
(http://www.cdc.gov/24-7/images/ebola-center-kelsey.jpg)
Is not the same as this.
(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/876/493/660_CDCpic.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Knowing what precautions to take vs having the equipment and the ability to take them are not one and the same.
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Actually, it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
Influenza can be spread in three main ways:[71][72] by direct transmission (when an infected person sneezes mucus directly into the eyes, nose or mouth of another person); the airborne route (when someone inhales the aerosols produced by an infected person coughing, sneezing or spitting) and through hand-to-eye, hand-to-nose, or hand-to-mouth transmission, either from contaminated surfaces or from direct personal contact such as a hand-shake. The relative importance of these three modes of transmission is unclear, and they may all contribute to the spread of the virus.[4][73] In the airborne route, the droplets that are small enough for people to inhale are 0.5 to 5 µm in diameter and inhaling just one droplet might be enough to cause an infection.[71] Although a single sneeze releases up to 40,000 droplets,[74] most of these droplets are quite large and will quickly settle out of the air.[71] How long influenza survives in airborne droplets seems to be influenced by the levels of humidity and UV radiation, with low humidity and a lack of sunlight in winter aiding its survival.[71]
As the influenza virus can persist outside of the body, it can also be transmitted by contaminated surfaces such as banknotes,[75] doorknobs, light switches and other household items.[2] The length of time the virus will persist on a surface varies, with the virus surviving for one to two days on hard, non-porous surfaces such as plastic or metal, for about fifteen minutes from dry paper tissues, and only five minutes on skin.[76] However, if the virus is present in mucus, this can protect it for longer periods (up to 17 days on banknotes).[71][75] Avian influenza viruses can survive indefinitely when frozen.[77] They are inactivated by heating to 56 °C (133 °F) for a minimum of 60 minutes, as well as by acids (at pH <2).[77]
Thanks for illustrating my point that airborne is a technical term. The influenza virus is in the droplet transmission category, not the airborne transmission category.
http://www.cdc.gov/HAI/settings/outpatient/basic-infection-control-prevention-plan-2011/transmission-based-precautions.html
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Keep panicking!@!!!!! OH NOES!!!!!!
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Plague was also reported last week in Arizona, Flagstaff; they tested fleas after massive prairie dogs die off; this video warns people walking dogs/cats outdoors; the disease can go fr9m fleas to pets and humans;
"Fleas test positive for plague at Doney Park near Flagstaff;"
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-northern-az/flagstaff/official-fleas-test-positive-for-plague-at-doney-park-near-flagstaff
plague; killed 1/3 of Europe population and 1/2 of China's population few centuries ago;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_(disease)
They've been discovering plague in wildlife of north america about once every couple of years for as long as I can remember. In modern times it's not that dangerous. Influenza and small pox each have killed more people than the plague. Also there is a vaccine for plague.
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Here's some interesting watchables.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbEefT_M6xY
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/anthrax-files/
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aww man I thought the first link was this
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/influenza/
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http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/dpc/epidemic-a-pandemic-alert-and-response/epr-highlights/3648-frequently-asked-questions-on-ebola-hemorrhagic-fever.html
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Keep panicking!@!!!!! OH NOES!!!!!!
Panicking is not the same as thinking it is foolish to allow unrestricted travel from epidemic areas to the US.
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Ebola in the US is a red flag that it is now in other countries/continents.
How would South/Central America far with ebola? Imagine if it gets to the Middle East, India, SE Asia and so on.
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Whittle who invented the jet is to blame
These people have been dying from this disease for century's and it never affected anyone else.
They will not change their ways and refuse to listen to medical advice
And the usual foil hat crowd say its the CIA
Ebola will not catch on in the US because you don't have the monkeys that the disease is located, McDonalds is not affected by the ebola virus
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http://www.liberianobserver.com/security/ebola-aids-manufactured-western-pharmaceuticals-us-dod
That's the kind of nonsense a lot of people down there believe these days.
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. Mcdonalds is not affected by the ebola virus
I've eaten at Mcdonalds.......I'm not so sure. :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwt1DVaYLy4
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Goodbye all my Yank friends, it was nice knowing you. My advice is put the shotgun in your mouth before the virus reaches you.
I shall miss your 'Presidents Choice' cookies, so if someone could email me the recipe before your society collapses, I'd appreciate it.
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Goodbye all my Yank friends, it was nice knowing you. My advice is put the shotgun in your mouth before the virus reaches you.
I shall miss your 'Presidents Choice' cookies, so if someone could email me the recipe before your society collapses, I'd appreciate it.
Don't mind the ingredient packet labeled 'bodily fluids.' It's merely a creative marketing technique.
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http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/first-ebola-case-diagnosed-us-being-treated-dallas
It's in Texas...
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Goodbye all my Yank friends, it was nice knowing you. My advice is put the shotgun in your mouth before the virus reaches you.
I shall miss your 'Presidents Choice' cookies, so if someone could email me the recipe before your society collapses, I'd appreciate it.
President's Choice is a store brand of Loblaws, a Canadian company. Nothing to worry about, yet.
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What got me was on the ABC news they interviewed the CDC guy. A kind of wimpy guy. He said no worries we sent seven people to Texas. Seven whole people. Man, I would have sent a 100 and found every person this guy has touched. Odd too I haven't seen a picture of this guy.
Not a single word about stopping the next incoming case of Ebola like it will not happen again. The rule should be simple, go to Africa and plan on spending 21 days in isolation before you get on a plane.
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Ya know....when they quarantine Texas it's really gonna interfere with the new graphic update. :(
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We,ve all seen the films u know it,s coming Armageddon. panic buy, hoard food, buy a gun SAVE YOURSELVES !!!!!
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Ya know....when they quarantine Texas it's really gonna interfere with the new graphic update. :(
I can wait.
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President's Choice is a store brand of Loblaws, a Canadian company. Nothing to worry about, yet.
Stop the diddlying bus!!
Bob Loblaw has a store?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwWAsNZTnug
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Zack is going to have problems when Mr. Ebola's Meat Pies company corners the market on meat pies. (And, Mr. Ebola's Meat Pies is, I hear, a CIA front company!)
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Zack is going to have problems when Mr. Ebola's Meat Pies company corners the market on meat pies. (And, Mr. Ebola's Meat Pies is, I hear, a CIA front company!)
http://www.african-sweetheart.com/2013/06/cookery-nigerian-meat-pie.html#.UbeLMvm1Ho4 (http://www.african-sweetheart.com/2013/06/cookery-nigerian-meat-pie.html#.UbeLMvm1Ho4)
(http://www.bakesforbreastcancer.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/meat-pie-flickr.jpg)
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Goodbye all my Yank friends, it was nice knowing you. My advice is put the shotgun in your mouth before the virus reaches you.
I shall miss your 'Presidents Choice' cookies, so if someone could email me the recipe before your society collapses, I'd appreciate it.
Our society has been "collapsing" to this bunch ever since 1781 when Cornwallis surrendered. :lol
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The colonials are odd :old:
Maple syrup on meat products :old:
Savages :cry
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I am surprised nobody has mentioned the movie Outbreak, if you haven't seen it you should watch it. I could see the exact same thing happen as did in the movie. It wouldn't take long for a real disaster, if the virus isn't detained right away.
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...since 1781 when Cornwallis surrendered. :lol
Don't make me bring up how you owe your freedom to the French again, lets try to stay on topic......not that it matters much though, soon there won't be a Skuzzy left to enforce the rules cos Texas is a plague state now.
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Maple syrup on meat products :old:
I'm completely against it.
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I am surprised nobody has mentioned the movie Outbreak, if you haven't seen it you should watch it.
Part of my profession is in the infectious-disease field. My favorite in that genre is Contagion. I thought that it was realistic and did very well on the various technical aspects for a deadly infectious-disease epidemic.
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I'm completely against it.
I have to concur... I'm not a picky eater, nor will I turn down any culinary adventure, but I've had maple syrup on sausage, bacon, etc... and now I just say no.
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Don't make me bring up how you owe your freedom to the French again, lets try to stay on topic......not that it matters much though, soon there won't be a Skuzzy left to enforce the rules cos Texas is a plague state now.
Its probably in The Merry Ole Town already. Heres the virus super highway. http://www.flightradar24.com/39.1,-59.07/4
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Part of my profession is in the infectious-disease field. My favorite in that genre is Contagion. I thought that it was realistic and did very well on the various technical aspects for a deadly infectious-disease epidemic.
I have this rash and was wondering if i send you pic you could offer some advice :old:
Maple syrup on meat is like tomatoe sauce on apple pie!
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I have this rash and was wondering if i send you pic you could offer some advice :old:
Absolutely, although I can offer the advice immediately: this is where the application of maple syrup has merit.
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Now I'm getting hungry. Is there anything ketchup doesn't go with?
(http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/d0nwaters/Maplesausage_zpsdc53496d.jpg) (http://s665.photobucket.com/user/d0nwaters/media/Maplesausage_zpsdc53496d.jpg.html)
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Seems his apartment complex is 14 miles away as the crow flies in a heavily populated area. If the Ebola virus is truly airborne I'll be letting you know next week. Consider me your canary in a coalmine.
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Half a dozen here in the office are sneezing, including me. Bring out cher daid! (We've been sneezing since before the traveler returned.)
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Incubation time is between 2 and 21 days, so you might have time to get your affairs in order...
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Incubation time is between 2 and 21 days, so you might have time to get your affairs in order...
I'm avoiding affairs. My wife's an intelligent redhead.
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Half a dozen here in the office are sneezing, including me.
It's not Ebola, probably just pneumoleprosy.
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It's not Ebola, probably just pneumoleprosy.
Well that's a relief. No ..... wait .....
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It's not getting better. The people who've been exposed in Dallas were kind enough to ignore the isolation order until a judge spelled out some legal consequences.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2777788/Panicked-parents-pull-kids-school-s-revealed-Ebola-patient-Texas-throwing-place.html
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I am from Uganda :old:
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I am from Uganda :old:
I ate in a restaurant patronized once by Idi Amin.
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I am from Uganda :old:
You eat pie......your safe. :old:
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I don't see how y'all see the ebola problem to be so funny.
Keep in mind this one case in Texas represents a failure in ebola boundary control. An ebola leak sort of speak that no government has come forward to put their thumb in it. To think this one poor man is the only one that has or will travel with ebola is a terrible oversight. The current controls are barely more substantial than controlling the spread of flu. How well does that work? How many of you have gone to work or school with a fever without thought of spreading an infection?
Keep in mind too the number of beds and trained staff available to deal with this is very small. Many, hospitals have little or no facilities and trained staff to deal with problems like this.
The only answer is an extended isolation before leaving an ebola area. I would not be surprised if one of those areas would be Texas if the CDC doesn't do more than they are doing.
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"Man Thought to Have Died From Ebola Awakens After Burial Team Wraps Him Up"
Oct 2, 2014, 11:11 AM ET
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/man-thought-died-ebola-awakes-burial-team-arrives/story?id=25915800
....zombies?! :huh :noid
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It's taking armed guards and a court ordered quarantine to keep the family exposed to ebola indoors. Before the court order they were coming and going as if it's no big deal to expose the general public to this virus.
The guy who brought it to Dallas lied his butt off when he filled out a series of ebola questions before boarding a plane and flying to Dallas.
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It's taking armed guards and a court ordered quarantine to keep the family exposed to ebola indoors. Before the court order they were coming and going as if it's no big deal to expose the general public to this virus.
The guy who brought it to Dallas lied his butt off when he filled out a series of ebola questions before boarding a plane and flying to Dallas.
These behaviors to me sound like reckless endangerment at the very least, up to manslaughter if anyone else gets sick and dies...
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These behaviors to me sound like reckless endangerment at the very least, up to manslaughter if anyone else gets sick and dies...
What about starting an epidemic? You won't even feel sick during the incubation period of 20 days.
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Keep in mind the CDC sent only 7 people to stop an epidemic. Governments are poorly suited to take charge of a dynamic situation. Remember Mayor nagin, he left town.
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If he kills me, I'm going to be quite upset.
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If he kills me, I'm going to be quite upset.
nice to know you think it's amusing.
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nice to know you think it's amusing.
Thank you for your concern. Try not to be too offended over my nonchalant way of addressing this crisis in my own back yard. :aok
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Better to be infected early, while society is still functioning and health care is available. Once I survive and my immunity is established, then society can go crumble, and good luck to you surviving your inevitable infections when everyone is looting and running amok.
Now just need to get a passport and airline ticket to Africa... or Texas.
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Better to be infected early, while society is still functioning and health care is available. Once I survive and my immunity is established, then society can go crumble, and good luck to you surviving your inevitable infections when everyone is looting and running amok.
Now just need to get a passport and airline ticket to Africa... or Texas.
As if when society collapses all you'll have to worry about is ebola.
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When will that be? :rofl
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For those of you wondering how the US carefully does a safe, high-tech clean up of infectious waste from this Dallas Ebola victim:
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_worker.png)
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_cleanup2-e1412356590787.jpg)
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_cleanup.jpg)
From: http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/outrage-ebola-vomit-washed-down-storm-drain/ (http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/outrage-ebola-vomit-washed-down-storm-drain/)
Hey, what could go wrong?
The most-recent announcement of an American who got Ebola (a NBC cameraman in Africa) thinks he got it this way: "'At one point he was trying to help decontaminate a car. He had most of the protective gear on, but he thinks something might have splashed on his body at that point. That’s one possibility, but really, one doesn’t know fully,' Diana (his mother) said." http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/nbc-news-cameraman-from-providence-diagnosed-with-ebola/ (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/nbc-news-cameraman-from-providence-diagnosed-with-ebola/)
I'm sure a t-shirt and baseball hat for the guys above counts as "most of the protective gear on".
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hey but the CDC and gov are on top of it, remember what we heard the chances of it coming to the US are slim to none... slim landed in Texas.
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In a bit over a week, we'll know if anyone else got infected.
However, it's very easy to do a PCR test. That would pick it up far in advance of someone showing symptoms. The health agencies should be doing that now for the people who were in contact with him -- but they probably aren't. Maybe this is a wrong impression, but from the outside, all of this sure looks like a Keystone Cops production.
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For those of you wondering how the US carefully does a safe, high-tech clean up of infectious waste from this Dallas Ebola victim:
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_worker.png)
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_cleanup2-e1412356590787.jpg)
(http://www.wnd.com/files/2014/10/ebola_cleanup.jpg)
From: http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/outrage-ebola-vomit-washed-down-storm-drain/ (http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/outrage-ebola-vomit-washed-down-storm-drain/)
Hey, what could go wrong?
The most-recent announcement of an American who got Ebola (a NBC cameraman in Africa) thinks he got it this way: "'At one point he was trying to help decontaminate a car. He had most of the protective gear on, but he thinks something might have splashed on his body at that point. That’s one possibility, but really, one doesn’t know fully,' Diana (his mother) said." http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/nbc-news-cameraman-from-providence-diagnosed-with-ebola/ (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/nbc-news-cameraman-from-providence-diagnosed-with-ebola/)
I'm sure a t-shirt and baseball hat for the guys above counts as "most of the protective gear on".
Quite different from the X-files etc. Hollywood fairy tales. If this was a movie there'd be a special decontamination team in space suits and hover crafts lol. The reality? A black dude in plain clothes rinsing off the biohazard into the nature. I hope they at least used a disinfectant.
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According to the news, Ebola just landed on the east coast in Newark New Jersey.
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Buy fast more guns!
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Tassos is from northern Greece. My great grandfather was born in the Macedonian region of Greece. We could be related! ;)
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These imbeciles running the show had better ban flights from these countries and quick.
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These imbeciles running the show had better ban flights from these countries and quick.
Yup
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These imbeciles running the show had better ban flights from these countries and quick.
ok so they fly to another country that flies into the usa. us citizens arent allowed to fly to cuba but many do thru other countries.
semp
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ok so they fly to another country that flies into the usa. us citizens arent allowed to fly to cuba but many do thru other countries.
semp
When you increase a barrier to entry, you get fewer people entering. For example, eliminating flights from Liberia would result in a significant reduction in number of Liberians travelling to the US.
However, if we were going to do that, it is trivially simple to ban travel into the US for people with Liberian passports regardless of where they originate.
Of course, currently, the simplest way around any restriction is to fly to Mexico and walk in with the rest of the 20,000 people per month doing that.
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I think semp assumed he meant that only the us ban flights from west africa. What west african country hasnt closed it's borders yet? I thought S Leone and Liberia had already closed.
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I opened the window and in flew enza.
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When you increase a barrier to entry, you get fewer people entering. For example, eliminating flights from Liberia would result in a significant reduction in number of Liberians travelling to the US.
However, if we were going to do that, it is trivially simple to ban travel into the US for people with Liberian passports regardless of where they originate.
Of course, currently, the simplest way around any restriction is to fly to Mexico and walk in with the rest of the 20,000 people per month doing that.
want the person in texas a us citizen?
semp
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want the person in texas a us citizen?
No, Liberian national who came on a tourist's visa to marry his girlfriend.
semp
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want the person in texas a us citizen?
semp
Would it make any difference? If you have Ebola you don't travel, period. The man put everyone in the plane and at the international airports he visited to deadly risk.
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I wonder if the US authorities have the legal right to refuse entry and prevent a US citizen from returning home?
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I wonder if the US authorities have the legal right to refuse entry and prevent a US citizen from returning home?
In this case, it isn't relevant, as he is a Liberian visitor, not an American.
However, in the case of certain diseases, you can be refused travel. That is true even of non-disease issues (such as cancelling flights into the US as a result of 9/11). So, if you got Ebola in Liberia and were just a normal citizen (not a politician, or a member of some religious group that will spend a million dollars on you, or an employee of a news agency that would get crucified in the media if they didn't get you back into the US for treatment -- or aren't part of any other special network that will provide you with a private jet and a biohazard team), you'd be stuck.
The only case where it would be a question is if a US citizen is bleeding from his orifices and wants to walk across the border at some point where they actually have border protocols (a Canadian checkpoint, say). I'm not sure if you can be precluded from entry, but my guess is that for those cases (which are so rare as to be hypothetical), you'd be held there until a biohazard medical team shows up. You can certainly be held at the checkpoint if you are suspected of various other things (carrying too much cash, having precluded food items, etc.).
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I wonder if the US authorities have the legal right to refuse entry and prevent a US citizen from returning home?
Why not? It's not like a single citizens rights weigh anything against potential death of thousands or more.
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Individual citizens' rights weigh quite heavily in the US... (As they should.)
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Why not? It's not like a single citizens rights weigh anything against potential death of thousands or more.
"Thomas Eric Duncan left Monrovia, Liberia, on Sept. 19 aboard a Brussels Airlines jet to the Belgian capital, according to a Belgian official. After layover of nearly seven hours, he boarded United Airlines Flight 951 to Dulles International Airport near Washington, D.C. After another layover of nearly three hours, he then flew Flight 822 from Dulles to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, the airline confirmed."
He had no symptoms en-route.
He would be refused entry on what grounds? His ticket origin? What if he only has his United Airlines boarding pass/ticket stub (likely)?
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He was travelling on a Liberian passport/visa.
It is easier to restrict the individual rights of foreign nationals in the US than it is regarding US citizens.
Foreigners have already lost their 2nd amendment rights unless they get a green card.
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He was travelling on a Liberian passport/visa.
It is easier to restrict the individual rights of foreign nationals in the US than it is regarding US citizens.
Foreigners have already lost their 2nd amendment rights unless they get a green card.
The right to keep and bear arms?
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ok so they fly to another country that flies into the usa. us citizens arent allowed to fly to cuba but many do thru other countries.
semp
For the price of a plane ticket you can get far,far better medical care for free then you can anywhere in Africa. Got symptoms? Been exposed? Then just fly here. People who are looking death in the eye can do desperate things. I work at an airport, a huge one and often at the International terminal. The place would make a germophobe run screaming. Its very common for ambulances to have to meet flights at the gate for sick passengers. On occasion they die on the flight and we have to pick up the body when they land. Who knows what they had?
What scares is this thing is like the equivalent of smallpox in the middle ages. There is no real treatment or vaccine. And if there is any screening of incoming passengers Ive yet to see it. A customs agent is not a Doctor. Unless your a US citizen we shouldnt allow anyone with Liberia or any of these affected countries, that have travel there anywhere on their manifest, into the country.
Ordinary transmission is bad enough. The virus going airborne would be catastrophic. And even if it doesnt just wait until the "72 virgins" crowd gets ahold of some infected fluids and starts wiping it on faucets at American airports.
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"Thomas Eric Duncan left Monrovia, Liberia, on Sept. 19 aboard a Brussels Airlines jet to the Belgian capital, according to a Belgian official. After layover of nearly seven hours, he boarded United Airlines Flight 951 to Dulles International Airport near Washington, D.C. After another layover of nearly three hours, he then flew Flight 822 from Dulles to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, the airline confirmed."
He had no symptoms en-route.
He would be refused entry on what grounds? His ticket origin? What if he only has his United Airlines boarding pass/ticket stub (likely)?
The situation being what it is and the incubation time of Ebola being 2-3 weeks it would be highly advisable to quarantine anyone traveling from that area for the duration. It's a matter of national security if anything. Of course if your officials like the idea of having to deal with Ebola infestation within your borders and in the large cities it's a whole another issue lol. It will reduce the population effectively - there's not enough medicine for 100 victims let alone 100 000.
The worst case scenario was predicted in the Hong Kong classic movie 'Ebola syndrome' where a patient zero was a resilient carrier - he carried Ebola and spread it while being himself immune to it. The movie itself is very gory and (if you like that stuff, fun) so viewer discretion is advised if you look the movie up lol.
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"At least one passenger exhibiting flu-like symptoms and believed to be from Liberia was removed Saturday from a United Airlines plane at New Jersey's Newark International Airport by medical personnel in hazmat suits.
Passengers and crew on board Flight 998 were instructed to remain inside the plane while the sick passenger, a 35-year-old man, and a young girl were removed, Port Authority officials told Fox News.
Passengers were questioned by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, while than man and the girl were taken to a local hospital.. United Airlines said it is working with authorities to accommodate its passengers.
"The crew reported that a person was vomiting, and that Liberians were aboard the plane," a law enforcement source told The New York Post. "The person throwing up is believed to be Liberian."
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/04/sick-passenger-removed-from-united-flight-by-medical-personnel-in-hazmat-suits/ "
-Quoted from another forum
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"At least one passenger exhibiting flu-like symptoms and believed to be from Liberia was removed Saturday from a United Airlines plane at New Jersey's Newark International Airport by medical personnel in hazmat suits.
Passengers and crew on board Flight 998 were instructed to remain inside the plane while the sick passenger, a 35-year-old man, and a young girl were removed, Port Authority officials told Fox News.
Passengers were questioned by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, while than man and the girl were taken to a local hospital.. United Airlines said it is working with authorities to accommodate its passengers.
"The crew reported that a person was vomiting, and that Liberians were aboard the plane," a law enforcement source told The New York Post. "The person throwing up is believed to be Liberian."
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/04/sick-passenger-removed-from-united-flight-by-medical-personnel-in-hazmat-suits/ "
-Quoted from another forum
United Airlines, proud sponsor of global ebola. This has to be a PR nightmare. Not that the PR part is the real tragedy.
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http://www.libertynews.com/2014/10/breaking-the-real-truth-about-dallas-ebola-patient-zero-may-be-unravelling-and-its-not-pretty-bombshell-report/
A former chauffeur uses his head and when he finds out he's been infected leaves his shack in Liberia and fly's to the Land of the dumb where he knows even a Bum can get better free health care then the richest person in Liberia, "or probably any other place in Africa".
The guy knew he had it and he probably blew his lifes savings on his one shot for Zmapp and life. This is the real problem for developed countries here. The fact that there IS an incubation period. If you handled or had relations with someone sick of it in Africa you know your a dead man, or woman, walking cause nobody is going to help you, what with an almost nonexistant health care system. So you take your one shot to live and fly to America, or England, or Germany. Anywhere your passport will take you with enough dough to last you three weeks. Thats what this guy did and look at the stir he caused.
Im not saying dont help these people Im just saying help them over there. We need a total travel ban from affected countries, most of all for non-citizens. Its only a matter of time before Europe gets banged by Ebola. They have much stronger ties to Africa cause they robbed the place for centuries and I bet they put travel bans in place.
This is no joke. With every new infection the virus mutates and these INTL airports are just plain germ factories. We've caught them washing their feet in the sinks, pee'ing in the sinks, or wiping their bums and throwing the paper on the floor of the stall. I wont even use a public restroom in one.
Last night I found myself pondering this Dallas Ebola situation and ended up puzzled over it all. You see, Thomas Duncan, the man who came from West Africa with Ebola, had to have known he was likely carrying the virus. A few days before Duncan boarded a last minute flight to Dallas he had personally handled a pregnant friend while trying to get her to an Ebola treatment facility in West Africa. He and another friend helped her into a taxi, took her to the facility and they were turned away due to the facility not having room for new patients.
When the group returned to the woman’s apartment, Duncan and another friend carried her back inside. Unfortunately, the pregnant woman dies that evening.
Under those circumstances, I fail to see how Duncan didn’t know he was very likely to have contracted Ebola. Whether or not he purchased the flight that day or after is yet to be known. The claim out there is that he decided to pay a last minute visit to his girlfriend and other family in Dallas, Texas.
For further thought on this, take everything above into consideration and then ponder this. Duncan handled a friend who had Ebola, she died that night, he boarded a flight a few days later and then found himself sick. He then visited a hospital in Dallas, informed the facility that he had traveled from West Africa, was given antibiotics and was sent home. How could he have possibly not believed he had Ebola when he first went to the hospital? Any level-headed human should be able to add that 2+2 scenario together and get 4.
- See more at: http://www.libertynews.com/2014/10/breaking-the-real-truth-about-dallas-ebola-patient-zero-may-be-unravelling-and-its-not-pretty-bombshell-report/#sthash.Ta73SOPF.dpuf
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Texas scientists fighting Ebola...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/co1ge.gif)
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Quarantine is the answer. Put anyone traveling from that area to isolation untill they're confirmed safe.
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Quarantine is the answer. Put anyone traveling from that area to isolation untill they're confirmed safe.
Wouldn't it be more logical to do it in reverse order? Isolation and monitoring for a month before being allowed to embark? Or are you wanting a month on each end? The logistics and cost boggles.
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Wouldn't it be more logical to do it in reverse order? Isolation and monitoring for a month before being allowed to embark? Or are you wanting a month on each end? The logistics and cost boggles.
Yes thats what I meant, quarantine them at the point of origin naturally. You can't let them in the plane.
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3rd world countries cannot even quarantine infected patients properly, would you trust them to quarantine travelers properly?
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You can't do quarantine and then fly. That system is impractically expensive, impractically difficult to administer, and far too prone to errors (both unintentional screw ups and intentional subversion). The way it is done in practice (we aren't reinventing the wheel here, after all) is to preclude travel.
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You can't do quarantine and then fly. That system is impractically expensive, impractically difficult to administer, and far too prone to errors (both unintentional screw ups and intentional subversion). The way it is done in practice (we aren't reinventing the wheel here, after all) is to preclude travel.
Unfortunately, that's shutting the barn door a bit late in this theoretical conversation about practicality and effectiveness.
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case in spain now,
Zack can you pull up the Ladder to the EU?
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Unfortunately, that's shutting the barn door a bit late in this theoretical conversation about practicality and effectiveness.
We are a very far distance away from quarantine being too late.
My guess is that, if Ebola becomes more of an epidemic in Africa, or especially if Americans start getting it from visitors, or both, there will be a travel restriction put on.
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We are a very far distance away from quarantine being too late.
My guess is that, if Ebola becomes more of an epidemic in Africa, or especially if Americans start getting it from visitors, or both, there will be a travel restriction put on.
May it be universally applied by all global carriers (an unintended pun in those last two words).
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Ebola is in Cobb county GA. 30 minutes from my house. ayee
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So... Now it's here...
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/10/07/ebola-patient-finally-home/
"An ebola-infected Norwegian doctor was carefully transported in a medical convoy with police escort from Oslo’s main airport at Gardermoen to the country’s largest hospital on Tuesday afternoon. Authorities clearly wanted no risk of traffic accidents as they kept other vehicles on the road well away from the specially equipped ambulance carrying the stricken woman."
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3rd world countries cannot even quarantine infected patients properly, would you trust them to quarantine travelers properly?
The airlines have a better control over things. There should be a quarantine area at the airport, register when entering, daily fever measurements and after 2 weeks a free pass to travel. Of course the area would need to be quite huge to avoid people from infecting eachothers in the process. Some airport hotel would need to be reserved for the purpose.
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Ebola is in Cobb county GA. 30 minutes from my house. ayee
Are you sure?
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The airlines have a better control over things. There should be a quarantine area at the airport, register when entering, daily fever measurements and after 2 weeks a free pass to travel. Of course the area would need to be quite huge to avoid people from infecting eachothers in the process. Some airport hotel would need to be reserved for the purpose.
Obviously you have never seen the crowds clearing customs at busy airports. I bet you'd fill up a football stadium in a day at one like O'hare or Atlanta. How could you possibly house them for two weeks and imagine the riots trying to hold them.
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Obviously you have never seen the crowds clearing customs at busy airports. I bet you'd fill up a football stadium in a day at one like O'hare or Atlanta. How could you possibly house them for two weeks and imagine the riots trying to hold them.
Just to underline your point...
https://vimeo.com/98941796
Each of those dots represent 200-500 people. That's just one day. That's just transatlantic.
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I wonder what it looked like on sept 12 2001.
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I wonder what it looked like on sept 12 2001.
Irrelevant. Quarantine =/= Closing of airspace.
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I wasnt taking part in a debate, I do wonder what it looked like. I also wonder what it's going to look like after ebola has it's day.
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Obviously you have never seen the crowds clearing customs at busy airports. I bet you'd fill up a football stadium in a day at one like O'hare or Atlanta. How could you possibly house them for two weeks and imagine the riots trying to hold them.
Obviously you've never seen a Liberian airport. It's not LAX lol.
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How would America or the EU detain someone in Liberia?
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Are you sure?
Made Atlanta News.
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Patient 1 dies. Reports of a Sheriff's deputy that came into contact having possibly contracted.
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That poor man died in Texas. I feel so sorry for those that came in contact with him. What a terrible stein on the mind and body wondering if they have been infected.
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The WHO made this statement.
"The Ebola epidemic ravaging parts of West Africa is the most severe acute public health emergency seen in modern times. Never before in recorded history has a biosafety level four pathogen infected so many people so quickly, over such a broad geographical area, for so long."
Some refreshing truth from the media and authorities.
Ebola is very contagious. BTW Smallpox, the deadliest disease in history, is a level four pathogen. Ebola has a much higher mortality rate than smallpox and it spreads faster. Ebola is the most dangerous human disease ever discovered. There is no cure, there is no vaccine and it's out of control. Those are the facts.
Like the inundation of New Orleans, Ebola has always been a when, not an if.
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ZMapp saved the two US aid workers that got infected. They were lucky enough that they had the connections to get the experimental vaccine from Mapp Biopharmaceutical.
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My insurance wont cover that.
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Obviously you have never seen the crowds clearing customs at busy airports. I bet you'd fill up a football stadium in a day at one like O'hare or Atlanta. How could you possibly house them for two weeks and imagine the riots trying to hold them.
he's thinking more Ellis island.
semp
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Yaknow what gets me? There are only 150 visitors a day coming to America from the three affected countries and all were doing is sticking a thermometer in them when they arrive to see if they have a fever.
What if they are infected yet not symptomatic ? What about the others on the planes they may have infected ? And what happens when those travelers go about their lives after being exposed?
Why are the rights of 150 a day, most of them not even citizens I bet, more important then the lives of 270,000,000 Americans ?
This country is ran by idiots.
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(http://www.angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/panic.gif)
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Yaknow what gets me? There are only 150 visitors a day coming to America from the three affected countries and all were doing is sticking a thermometer in them when they arrive to see if they have a fever.
What if they are infected yet not symptomatic ? What about the others on the planes they may have infected ? And what happens when those travelers go about their lives after being exposed?
Why are the rights of 150 a day, most of them not even citizens I bet, more important then the lives of 270,000,000 Americans ?
This country is ran by idiots.
more people die of the flu than of ebola in this country. you want to ban them too? there's a hundred more diseases that come from over seas that kills people every year. but you get the first ebola case and you want to seal the borders. heck i bet drunk tourists kill more americans than some diseases, how about banning all tourists.
semp
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more people die of the flu than of ebola in this country. you want to ban them too? there's a hundred more diseases that come from over seas that kills people every year. but you get the first ebola case and you want to seal the borders. heck i bet drunk tourists kill more americans than some diseases, how about banning all tourists.
semp
This is a fallacious argument. Consider letting a toddler play with a revolver with a couple of rounds loaded and, when someone says "that's unwise," retorting with, "More people die in traffic accidents than die of partially loaded revolver accidents in this country. You want to ban cars, too?"
Everything in life is a matter of cost/benefit analysis. If you get more benefit than it costs you, it's good to do, otherwise not.
What do we get if we ban travel into the US from Ebola-ravaged countries? We reduce probability of Ebola-infected people making it in among our population, mingling with family members, school kids, etc. (like what just happened). We reduce probability of having to provide extremely expensive treatment to Ebola-infected visitors (like what just happened). What is the cost to us if we ban travel? Since amount of travel into the US from the Ebola countries is small, cost is small, perhaps mostly made up of the inconvenience of foreigners having to wait to travel until the Ebola epidemic is over.
Looking at it from the opposite point of view, what do we get if we let Liberians travel into the US? A small number of Liberians are happier, since their travel isn't inconvenienced. The people they visit are happier (unless their visitor turns up with Ebola). Some US airlines might make a small amount of revenue (very small compared to other routes of travel, since those are much, much more frequent). What is the cost? If there is no Ebolo getting into the US, the cost is zero. If there is no US transmission, but we have to treat a Liberian infected with Ebola, the cost is probably on order $1M per case (my estimates knowing what some of the costs are like). If there is US transmission, the cost is *enormous*. So, estimated cost is 0 + (probability of US transmission) * (enormous) + (number of imported Ebola cases) * $1M. My feeling is that estimated cost is substantial because, although those probabilities are small, the cost multiplier is enormous.
Analyzing from both sides (two previous paragraphs) to me means it's much wiser to ban travel. 5-10 other nations seem to agree, as do 5-10 airlines, including British Airways, Korean Air, and Emirates Air Lines (all of which ban travel from Ebola countries).
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This is a fallacious argument. Consider letting a toddler play with a revolver with a couple of rounds loaded and, when someone says "that's unwise," retorting with, "More people die in traffic accidents than die of partially loaded revolver accidents in this country. You want to ban cars, too?"
Everything in life is a matter of cost/benefit analysis. If you get more benefit than it costs you, it's good to do, otherwise not.
What do we get if we ban travel into the US from Ebola-ravaged countries? We reduce probability of Ebola-infected people making it in among our population, mingling with family members, school kids, etc. (like what just happened). We reduce probability of having to provide extremely expensive treatment to Ebola-infected visitors (like what just happened). What is the cost to us if we ban travel? Since amount of travel into the US from the Ebola countries is small, cost is small, perhaps mostly made up of the inconvenience of foreigners having to wait to travel until the Ebola epidemic is over.
Looking at it from the opposite point of view, what do we get if we let Liberians travel into the US? A small number of Liberians are happier, since their travel isn't inconvenienced. The people they visit are happier (unless their visitor turns up with Ebola). Some US airlines might make a small amount of revenue (very small compared to other routes of travel, since those are much, much more frequent). What is the cost? If there is no Ebolo getting into the US, the cost is zero. If there is no US transmission, but we have to treat a Liberian infected with Ebola, the cost is probably on order $1M per case (my estimates knowing what some of the costs are like). If there is US transmission, the cost is *enormous*. So, estimated cost is 0 + (probability of US transmission) * (enormous) + (number of imported Ebola cases) * $1M. My feeling is that estimated cost is substantial because, although those probabilities are small, the cost multiplier is enormous.
Analyzing from both sides (two previous paragraphs) to me means it's much wiser to ban travel. 5-10 other nations seem to agree, as do 5-10 airlines, including British Airways, Korean Air, and Emirates Air Lines (all of which ban travel from Ebola countries).
dude we have lost billions of dollars because of parasites/fish/flowers... that came from other countries. you really want to isolate the usa from all travel. what about a us citizen catching ebola from going to france and have a couple of drinks at a bar where somebody from Liberia just happened to be there also having a drink and is infected. or are you so naive to think that Liberians only travel to the usa.
what about the 4 doctors/missionaries that were brought back to the usa even though they were infected. should we have left them back there? after all they knew the risks of going to treat patients there.
here's an interesting fact:
"In addition, CDC notes that an outbreak in Nigeria started by a Liberian-American man who traveled after he got sick has now been stopped. “During the outbreak, there were 19 laboratory-confirmed and one probable Ebola cases in two Nigerian states. Nearly 900 patient contacts were identified and followed; all but three have completed 21 days of follow-up period without Ebola symptoms,” CDC says."
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/what-we-know-about-texas-ebola-patient-n215451
semp
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(http://www.angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/panic.gif)
Do just a bit of research on infection rates and epidemic modeling. You will see that the fight must be won at the very first outbreak before the numbers go up exponentially.
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The other issue is the fact that as Ebola is RNA virus and is very prone to mutations. This makes it much more dangerous and could potentially change the transmission of the disease overnight. The larger the number of cases of Ebola, the greater the risk a mutation could occur that could make the outbreak catastrophic.
(DNA viruses tend to mutate less as they have more mechanisms to minimize mutation during the different stages of replication)
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more people die of the flu than of ebola in this country. you want to ban them too? there's a hundred more diseases that come from over seas that kills people every year. but you get the first ebola case and you want to seal the borders. heck i bet drunk tourists kill more americans than some diseases, how about banning all tourists.
semp
I only want to seal the borders from the three countries in Africa affected. Thats a total of 150 a day into America, "next time read my post". The only way to beat this thing is to beat it over there, oh and BTW the flu doesnt have a 90% death rate from infection.
One other thing for you to consider. Each and every time a new infection occurs the virus itself slightly mutates. Eventually its going to mutate into a easily transmittable virus like flu and if that happens were all dead. So the longer they play around with this the worse its going to get, perhaps eventually, like small pox did, killing 30% of mankind. Or probably worse since theres no treatment or cure and the thing is so lethal.
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As it is ebola virus is very nearly as transmissible as influenza, hence the positive pressure suits. As far as mutations, google reston virus.
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Has anyone read emergency plans adopted by every State in the Union in regards to these epidemics?
I remember when H1-bird flu was the big threat I and others demanded that the State of Utah review and update their pandemic plans, which had been crafted around the time of the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics. When people began to read what was in place they realized some overzealous Nazis had written them. What was created was essentially a dictatorial, police state with virtual all democratic institutions neutered. They quietly began to change things so we were not akin to 1930's Germany. Every State has some version of this junk.
The threat is not H1-flu, Ebola, or even terrorists. These all pose real threats. The biggest fear is the overreaction.
Calm decisions will always make for better outcomes.
boo
:old:
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The biggest fear is the overreaction.
boo
:old:
I way say under reaction is far more dangerous than overreaction.
If that Texas man would have under reacted to his illness, it would have been bad. As it was they underacted at the hospital the first time.
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I way say under reaction is far more dangerous than overreaction.
If that Texas man would have under reacted to his illness, it would have been bad. As it was they underacted at the hospital the first time.
I wonder if Ebola can have an animal host... The vomit was flushed to the sewer system which contains almost 100% sure rats.
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i believe only monkeys and humans can get ebola
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i believe only monkeys and humans can get ebola
I wouldn't bet my life on that. The Spanish nurse's dog was put down as a precaution.
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We are related to monkeys an this is the proof
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i believe only monkeys and humans can get ebola
Swine can also get it.
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I worry about countries outside of Africa that are less capable of dealing with an epidemic. Places that may launch new sources for all other countries.
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We are related to monkeys an this is the proof
Speak for yourself :old:
I was under the impression that the virus is also carried by the fruit bat :old:
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Speak for yourself :old:
I was under the impression that the virus is also carried by the fruit bat :old:
Well that puts Zack in danger.
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I think it's just a madder of time and it well be all over .
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I think it's just a madder of time and it well be all over .
Panic and sell. Oops, wrong thread.
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Panic and sell. Oops, wrong thread.
Madder? Oh no :bolt:
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dude we have lost billions of dollars because of parasites/fish/flowers...
Everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
"Is it wise to ban travel into the us from Ebola-ravaged countries?" is a question best answered by analyzing the cost and benefit of doing that, not the cost and benefit of other unrelated things, like flowers, flu, fish parasites, etc.
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Madder? Oh no :bolt:
Oh , I knew I should have stayed in school , lol .
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Do just a bit of research on infection rates and epidemic modeling. You will see that the fight must be won at the very first outbreak before the numbers go up exponentially.
Don't need to. However those responsible for the gross negligence should be removed from the gene pool.
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Has anyone read emergency plans adopted by every State in the Union in regards to these epidemics?
I remember when H1-bird flu was the big threat I and others demanded that the State of Utah review and update their pandemic plans, which had been crafted around the time of the 2002 SLC Winter Olympics. When people began to read what was in place they realized some overzealous Nazis had written them. What was created was essentially a dictatorial, police state with virtual all democratic institutions neutered. They quietly began to change things so we were not akin to 1930's Germany. Every State has some version of this junk.
The threat is not H1-flu, Ebola, or even terrorists. These all pose real threats. The biggest fear is the overreaction.
Calm decisions will always make for better outcomes.
boo
:old:
This.
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And now for some good news.
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365340607/
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I only want to seal the borders from the three countries in Africa affected. Thats a total of 150 a day into America, "next time read my post". The only way to beat this thing is to beat it over there, oh and BTW the flu doesnt have a 90% death rate from infection.
One other thing for you to consider. Each and every time a new infection occurs the virus itself slightly mutates. Eventually its going to mutate into a easily transmittable virus like flu and if that happens were all dead. So the longer they play around with this the worse its going to get, perhaps eventually, like small pox did, killing 30% of mankind. Or probably worse since theres no treatment or cure and the thing is so lethal.
nest time read the part where an american infected a country in africa.
semp
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nest time read the part where an american infected a country in africa.
semp
Sober up before you post nest time please.
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Sober up before you post nest time please.
it was all over the news. I bet next ah fee if you prove me wrong.
semp
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it was all over the news. I bet next ah fee if you prove me wrong.
semp
I have no idea what your talking about.
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Apparently fish and north Korea are to blame :old:
And moon dust :old:
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Apparently fish and north Korea are to blame :old:
And moon dust :old:
The Dear Leader has cornered the market on moon dust.
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Yes it reduces body mass
Moon dust is a myth because no one has landed on the moon
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I have no idea what your talking about.
an American infected a country in africa.
want me to be more specific.
semp
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Moon dust is a myth because no one has landed on the moon
The Dear Leader will do so in the near future to set up the DPRKLP (the Democratic People's Republic of Korea Lunar Paradise).
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an American infected a country in africa.
want me to be more specific.
semp
Are you seriously using the case of Patrick Sawyer as an argument against restricting flights from Liberia?
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He is!
My word!
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Moon dust is a myth because no one has landed on the moon
Not so! I have a small vile of Moon dust that was given to me by Chuck Yeager! :old: :aok
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For me it's just frustrating to see the roadkill and spin coming out of the american media, when the rest of the world is trying to get people to take it seriously. We have the head of the CDC saying stupid toejam like "Ebola could be the next AIDS" And I read in a CNN article titled "Ebola: What you need to know", "Ebola is actually very difficult to catch". Horse toejam. Mononucleosis is more difficult to catch than ebola and everybody in the world gets mono. So it is relieving to see the WHO go public with some real facts in non-subjective language.
It reminds me of Fukushima. For days after they were still denying meltdowns. "at this point there's just no way of knowing how bad it is... worst case scenario the fuel has over heated and started to melt" Worst case scenario?? That's the ONLY diddlying scenario when a live reactor has no effective cooling. Any lay person with a basic rudimentary understanding of how a nuclear power plant works knows that.
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Not so! I have a small vile of Moon dust that was given to me by Chuck Yeager! :old: :aok
You would have to had landed on the moon to have moon dust so your a big fat liar :old:
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Zack, Zack, Zack..................Don't be jealous of the U.S.A. just because we did what no one else could or has. Besides i hear that your country is attempting a manned landing on the sun next year, they have solved the problem of the extreme heat, and it was simple engineering.......you boys are going to go at night! Genius, pure unadulterated genius.
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Zack, Zack, Zack..................Don't be jealous of the U.S.A. just because we did what no one else could or has. Besides i hear that your country is attempting a manned landing on the sun next year, they have solved the problem of the extreme heat, and it was simple engineering.......you boys are going to go at night! Genius, pure unadulterated genius.
(https://www.fanduel.com/insider/wp-content/uploads/usachant.jpg)
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Are you seriously using the case of Patrick Sawyer as an argument against restricting flights from Liberia?
not but as an example of you never know where ebola is coming from. like I said before it could be the guy that had coffee with another guy who thought he had a cold in paris or London or anywhere else and flies back to the united states.
well he did infect another country. and dont forget those other doctors we brought here knowing they had ebola. all it would take was an oops that went unnoticed and then we would have an outbreak.
semp
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and dont forget those other doctors we brought here knowing they had ebola. all it would take was an oops that went unnoticed and then we would have an outbreak.
semp
Knowing ...... is not .... unnoticed.
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Knowing ...... is not .... unnoticed.
nope a puncture glove that went unnoticed is not knowing.
semp
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all it would take was an oops that went unnoticed and then we would have an outbreak.
That is an even stronger argument for banning travel into the US from West Africa.
Precautions are like armor. They don't preclude everything, but they cut down the probability of a bad event. An effective precaution is one that gives much more value in protection than it costs to implement. Banning travel into the US from West Africa is simple to do. 5-10 African countries have already done that.
In my view, it is completely stupid and irresponsible not to have a travel restriction in place.
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That is an even stronger argument for banning travel into the US from West Africa.
Precautions are like armor. They don't preclude everything, but they cut down the probability of a bad event. An effective precaution is one that gives much more value in protection than it costs to implement. Banning travel into the US from West Africa is simple to do. 5-10 African countries have already done that.
In my view, it is completely stupid and irresponsible not to have a travel restriction in place.
what you guys dont understand is that the only true way to stop ebola from coming into this country is total isolation. I mean no flight from anywhere. you think people from west africa only travel to the united states? they travel everywhere, europe, asia, Australian, england....
and none of those countries have banned travel from infected countries. and we have americans travel to those countires.
semp
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Semp Brooke just said it would reduce the risk not eliminate it. And btw if you think the best way to prevent it is stopping all flights anywhere, what about ships?
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what you guys dont understand is that the only true way to stop ebola from coming into this country is total isolation.
People understand that just fine. You, however, seem to think that if you can't make a risk zero that it's not worth reducing at all.
and none of those countries have banned travel from infected countries.
Yes, many countries have not put in place travel bans. But 5-10 African countries have done so.
Consider cockpit armor. It doesn't preclude 100% of shots hitting the pilot. Should all nations therefore have forgone cockpit armor? Of course not. It made a significant difference because it significantly reduced risk for an acceptable cost (in this case, for an acceptable weight and acceptable small reduction in performance).
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Total isolation is impossible for any country, especially one like the US. This was noted by the CDC the other day they can only lower the risk not eliminate it.
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Semp Brooke just said it would reduce the risk not eliminate it.
Yes, I know. That's my point: reducing risk can be good even if you can't reduce 100.0000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000 000000000% of risk.
And btw if you think the best way to prevent it is stopping all flights anywhere, what about ships?
Probably not many Liberians travelling into the US via ship compared to hundreds per day on airplane. However, you know how when you travel to another country and have to show your passport before you board the plane, train, boat; before you can drive your car across the boarder; and before you can walk through the boarder checkpoint -- and the person checking your passport won't let you through under various circumstances (like if you have no passport or are on some sort of travel-ban list)? It's just like that.
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Zack, Zack, Zack..................Don't be jealous of the U.S.A. just because we did what no one else could or has. Besides i hear that your country is attempting a manned landing on the sun next year, they have solved the problem of the extreme heat, and it was simple engineering.......you boys are going to go at night! Genius, pure unadulterated genius.
You actually believe the USA landed on the moon :rofl
It made out cheese :old:
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You actually believe the USA landed on the moon :rofl
It made out cheese :old:
No it isn't. That's why we stopped going back. :old:
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It made out cheese :old:
Specifically, Wensleydale.
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You actually believe the USA landed on the moon :rofl It made out cheese :old:
Framunda cheese? :D
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2nd person tested positive for Ebola in US: health care worker same hospital in Texas :pray maybe more to follow, the incubation period is up to 21 days;
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/13/us/texas-health-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola.html?_r=0&referrer=
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Just saw the press conference. Those guys looked grim.
Guess the test came back positive just before midnight Saturday. CDC to run a follow up test today with results available later in the day.
Glad I work today. This matter will be the rage on news shows until the CDC releases their results.
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The health care people have been extremely foolish to take the patients into big cities. They should have been treated in containment areas in some rural area or preferably in Africa. Now millions may die.
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The health care people have been extremely foolish to take the patients into big cities. They should have been treated in containment areas in some rural area or preferably in Africa. Now millions may die.
ripley, take the patient out of the hospital, into the airport, in another plane, into another airport. just from the texas hospital to the airplane how many people you think could be at risk?
semp
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ripley, take the patient out of the hospital, into the airport, in another plane, into another airport. just from the texas hospital to the airplane how many people you think could be at risk?
semp
I'm referring to the cases where they took known infected people to outside countries for treatment. Spain has an epidemic in their hands for example. And also in the US huge mistakes were made, they sent the feverish patients to home even though they said they were in contact with ebola patients. Same thing happened in Spain so nobody knows exactly how many are already infected.
In the US the situation couldn't have been totally avoided due to the Liberian case, although if I could decide all passengers from around those areas would be quarantined, spare no expense.
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It's no more contagious than the aids virus, so that's a crock. You have to physically contact BODILY FLUIDS with a cut to contract it. Fear is no excuse to deny the best help possible for those who risk all to help others. Denying them help is frankly, inhuman.
think hep-c, 'cause that's about how easily it's transmitted.
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from the WHO page......
Transmission
It is thought that fruit bats of the Pteropodidae family are natural Ebola virus hosts. Ebola is introduced into the human population through close contact with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected animals such as chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope and porcupines found ill or dead or in the rainforest.
Ebola then spreads through human-to-human transmission via direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and with surfaces and materials (e.g. bedding, clothing) contaminated with these fluids.
now, note that they say "with surfaces". then think about what that guy in texas touched. like everything he could to keep balance getting on/off that aircraft. and things he may have touched in the airport. there is a suspected case in dc.
someone upthread mentioned that the cdc says they can't eliminate threat, but only minimize it. we need either stop air travel to/from there till this is contained, or stop air travel from there till this is contained.
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from the WHO page......
Transmission
It is thought that fruit bats of the Pteropodidae family are natural Ebola virus hosts. Ebola is introduced into the human population through close contact with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected animals such as chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope and porcupines found ill or dead or in the rainforest.
Ebola then spreads through human-to-human transmission via direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and with surfaces and materials (e.g. bedding, clothing) contaminated with these fluids.
now, note that they say "with surfaces". then think about what that guy in texas touched. like everything he could to keep balance getting on/off that aircraft. and things he may have touched in the airport. there is a suspected case in dc.
someone upthread mentioned that the cdc says they can't eliminate threat, but only minimize it. we need either stop air travel to/from there till this is contained, or stop air travel from there till this is contained.
Not to mention that the worker who treated him and was wearing a full protection suit + following protocol is now sick. Nobody knows how he contracted the disease.
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Having worked in radiation contaminated environments, I can tell you it is easy to make a mistake coming out if you don't suit up often enough and don't take the procedures dead seriously. Radiation of course can be detected and removed from the skin.
The next concern is did this person spread the contamination in the work area immediately after the initial contamination. That could involve even more people. Not sure of the life span of Ebola on something.
Scary time in that Texas hospital.
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Having worked in radiation contaminated environments, I can tell you it is easy to make a mistake coming out if you don't suit up often enough and don't take the procedures dead seriously. Radiation of course can be detected and removed from the skin.
The next concern is did this person spread the contamination in the work area immediately after the initial contamination. That could involve even more people. Not sure of the life span of Ebola on something.
Scary time in that Texas hospital.
in semen up to 90 days after a man shows no signs of disease. cant find anywhere how long it actually lives in surfaces. HIV think only lives for a couple of hours on surfaces.
scary.
before I started looking I was thinking about the scene in resident evil when michelle rodriguez says her funny line as she's almost dying, "when this is over I think I am gonna get laid". and when you start with the she's a girl, I'll tell you in all the movies she's got some big ones.
semp
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another food for thought:
The symptoms of EVD are similar to those of Marburg virus disease.[61] It can also easily be confused with many other diseases common in Equatorial Africa such as other viral hemorrhagic fevers, falciparum malaria, typhoid fever, shigellosis, rickettsial diseases such as typhus, cholera, gram-negative septicemia, borreliosis such as relapsing fever or EHEC enteritis. Other infectious diseases that should be included in the differential diagnosis include the following: leptospirosis, scrub typhus, plague, Q fever, candidiasis, histoplasmosis, trypanosomiasis, visceral leishmaniasis, hemorrhagic smallpox, measles, and fulminant viral hepatitis.[62] Non-infectious diseases that can be confused with EVD are acute promyelocytic leukemia, hemolytic uremic syndrome, snake envenomation, clotting factor deficiencies/platelet disorders, thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura, hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia, , and even warfarin poisoning.
doctors arent exactly right 100% of the time. and to be honest they only have 15 to 20 minutes to see each patient.
semp
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Just fyi, viruses aren't alive. It's better to describe them as machines, they either have the ability to become mechanized (reproduce) or they have been de-mechanized. UV rays, surfactants (soap) and friction can de-mechanize them. They don't "live" as much as they get transported and when they end up on a cell that has a receptor site (i.e. lock & key) they begin to reproduce.
I won't bore you technical jargon and I'm not a microbiologist; the above is the best layman's way I was taught.
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Viruses depend on the host cells that they infect to reproduce. When found outside of host cells, viruses exist as a protein coat or capsid, sometimes enclosed within a membrane. The capsid encloses either DNA or RNA which codes for the virus elements. While in this form outside the cell, the virus is metabollically inert; examples of such forms are pictured below.
introduction to viruses.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/alllife/virus.html
My take is that a virus enters a dormant state when outside of a cell. This "protein coat" could maintain an active structure forever, so long as no other factor caused it to lose its structure.
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I can't understand why we're all freaking out about this
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viruses are the scariest things on earth. just look at the Bones!
(http://www.writeups.org/img/inset/Killer_rabbit_with_skull.jpg)
(http://www.badassoftheweek.com/badass-rabbitpouncing1.jpg)
(http://manilovefilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/grail2.jpg)
(http://stopthesethings.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/killer-bunny-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-590929_1008_5661.jpg?w=400)
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I can't understand why we're all freaking out about this
It's because deadly viral epidemics always have some potential to get out of hand and kill 10's of millions of people.
There are several recent such viral infections that world health agencies are or have been concerned about:
Influenza. This is a big one because there can be variants of it that are deadly and highly infectious, such as the 1918 flu that killed 50 million people. In recent times, some that have resulted in higher fatality rates are H5N1 Bird Flu and H1N1 Swine Flu, but nothing like the 1918 flu.
Other higher-mortality respiratory viruses (SARS, MERS, for example). They haven't caused widespread loss of life yet in the world.
Viral hemorrhagic fevers (such as Ebola). These haven't caused large loss of life in the world yet, either, mainly because they aren't as communicable as something like flu. This is in part because the virus, when outside the body, doesn't remain viable as long as the flu virus does. However, there are variants of Ebola that are more highly infectious in that way -- but fortunately for humans, those are variants that don't seem readily to infect humans. The fear is the that ones that do readily infect humans will mutate and become much more highly transmissable. If that happened, it would be very, very bad news for the world. This is not outside the realm of possibility. The more people who get infected with current strains of Ebola, and the longer the current epidemic lasts, the greater and greater the risk of such a horrible event.
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I can't understand why we're all freaking out about this
possibly the single most gormless statement I have read in while.
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possibly the single most gormless statement I have read in while.
Who the hell cares about Ebola?
Honestly, when a loved one of yours gets infected then you can bring it here, Until then, stop pissing your pants about it.
What are YOU going to do about Ebola? You can't do anything.
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Who the hell cares about Ebola?
Honestly, when a loved one of yours gets infected then you can bring it here, Until then, stop pissing your pants about it.
What are YOU going to do about Ebola? You can't do anything.
Whiskey2 for topic monitor.
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Who the hell cares about Ebola?
Honestly, when a loved one of yours gets infected then you can bring it here, Until then, stop pissing your pants about it.
What are YOU going to do about Ebola? You can't do anything.
Obviously you cared enough about ebola to participate in a thread about it. And I don't see any indications of anyone freaking out about it in this thread. Which makes the "why are you panicking?" posts seem kind of strange.
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from the WHO page......
Transmission
It is thought that fruit bats of the Pteropodidae family are natural Ebola virus hosts. Ebola is introduced into the human population through close contact with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected animals such as chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope and porcupines found ill or dead or in the rainforest.
Ebola then spreads through human-to-human transmission via direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and with surfaces and materials (e.g. bedding, clothing) contaminated with these fluids.
now, note that they say "with surfaces". then think about what that guy in texas touched. like everything he could to keep balance getting on/off that aircraft. and things he may have touched in the airport. there is a suspected case in dc.
someone upthread mentioned that the cdc says they can't eliminate threat, but only minimize it. we need either stop air travel to/from there till this is contained, or stop air travel from there till this is contained.
I read that the nurse that got it in spain touched an infected man's face with her gloved hand, and then touched her face with the same gloved hand. Now does that sound like a disease that's "very difficult to catch" as the american media likes to say?
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I read that the nurse that got it in spain touched an infected man's face with her gloved hand, and then touched her face with the same gloved hand. Now does that sound like a disease that's "very difficult to catch" as the american media likes to say?
That was for the woman in Spain.
For the woman in the US, it is even more to your point. She was gowned, gloved, masked, and visored, and as far as she or anyone else there knew, was taking all the correct precautions. From
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EBOLA_CDC?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-12-11-34-33
"A top federal health official says a health worker diagnosed with Ebola has been unable to identify a breach in procedures that might have led to her infection."
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Well protocol as I understand it when working around a biosecurity level 4 pathogen includes wearing a positive pressure suit, not a gown. Maybe it really is necessary.
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I can honestly say that I do not think this:
(http://www.davidszondy.com/ephemeral/andromeda03.jpg)
.... would be an exaggerated measure.
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Removing the protective clothes is easy to screw-up.
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Removing the protective clothes is easy to screw-up.
It seems they don't have a proper decontamination procedure, they should be suited up and rinsed with disinfectant before removing the suit.
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Who the hell cares about Ebola?
Honestly, when a loved one of yours gets infected then you can bring it here, Until then, stop pissing your pants about it.
What are YOU going to do about Ebola? You can't do anything.
we can do our damndest to make sure that no one we love comes in contact with the virus. that's an awful lot.
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I read that the nurse that got it in spain touched an infected man's face with her gloved hand, and then touched her face with the same gloved hand. Now does that sound like a disease that's "very difficult to catch" as the american media likes to say?
the problem i have with the media, is that they tend to glaze over some things for any number of reasons. in this instance, it may be to try to prevent mass panic. i don't thinkt hat's a good enough reason to lie about it though. i think that there's lots that we're not being told, and that's what's got me nervous about this crap.
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Who the hell cares about Ebola?
Honestly, when a loved one of yours gets infected then you can bring it here, Until then, stop pissing your pants about it.
What are YOU going to do about Ebola? You can't do anything.
There are so many things wrong with this statement there is only one thing left to do...
(http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f8/f8d56928_Facedesk.png)
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I can honestly say that I do not think this:
(http://www.davidszondy.com/ephemeral/andromeda03.jpg)
.... would be an exaggerated measure.
They could use a "suitport" for the patient room... Faster and safer (I guess). Isn't NASA looking for a useful mission to work on?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitport
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Suitport_testing_-_Z1.jpg/640px-Suitport_testing_-_Z1.jpg)
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I always wondered where zipper sleeves and shorts came from. Now I know it was aliens sharing there tecnology with NASA. :aok
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Our health worker who got infected is apparently getting better.
http://www.norwaypost.no/index.php/news/latest-news/30231
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I've just read on Discovery about this "Ebola zapping robot unleashed in hospitals,",lol, zapping any viruses including Ebola with UV light , like R2 from Star Wars :lol.
; this machines are already deployed on Hospitals and they want to deploy some in Africa ; I don't know what believe, let's hope this works,was developed and buit by this company San Antonio,
http://www.xenex.com/ specialized in disinfection equipment with ultraviolet light. The UV light from Sun can kill humans, why not microscopic viruses!
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/dnews-files-2014-10-ebola-zapping-robot-on-killing-rampage-670-jpg.jpg)
http://news.discovery.com/tech/robotics/ebola-zapping-robots-unleashed-in-hospitals-141011.htm
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I've just read on Discovery about this "Ebola zapping robot unleashed in hospitals,",lol, zapping any viruses including Ebola with UV light , like R2 from Star Wars :lol.
; this machines are already deployed on Hospitals and they want to deploy some in Africa ; I don't know what believe, let's hope this works,was developed and buit by this company San Antonio,
http://www.xenex.com/ specialized in disinfection equipment with ultraviolet light. The UV light from Sun can kill humans, why not microscopic viruses!
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/dnews-files-2014-10-ebola-zapping-robot-on-killing-rampage-670-jpg.jpg)
http://news.discovery.com/tech/robotics/ebola-zapping-robots-unleashed-in-hospitals-141011.htm
Deploy to ALL American and African Hospitals ASAP
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This is not comforting news:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola
The relevant point:
"Being at first skeptical that Ebola virus could be an aerosol-transmissible disease, we are now persuaded by a review of experimental and epidemiologic data that this might be an important feature of disease transmission, particularly in healthcare settings."
They then go on (in detail) to say why they think that.
Particularly of note to me:
"Experimental work has shown that Marburg and Ebola viruses can be isolated from sera and tissue culture medium at room temperature for up to 46 days, but at room temperature no virus was recovered from glass, metal, or plastic surfaces.23 Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.23
In still air, 3-mcm particles can take up to an hour to settle. With air currents, these and smaller particles can be transported considerable distances before they are deposited on a surface."
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I am feeling even more strongly that it is horribly negligent to allow travel from Ebola-ravaged areas into the US.
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"Being at first skeptical that Ebola virus could be an aerosol-transmissible disease, we are now persuaded by a review of experimental and epidemiologic data that this might be an important feature of disease transmission, particularly in healthcare settings."
By the way, if these authors are correct, then the woman in Texas who got Ebola from Dallas Patient Zero might *not* have had any protocol lapse at all and was infected because the protocols are insufficient (since a surgical mask does almost doesn't protect against inhalation of aerosol).
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"Experimental work has shown that Marburg and Ebola viruses can be isolated from sera and tissue culture medium at room temperature for up to 46 days, but at room temperature no virus was recovered from glass, metal, or plastic surfaces.23 Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.23
In still air, 3-mcm particles can take up to an hour to settle. With air currents, these and smaller particles can be transported considerable distances before they are deposited on a surface."
This also means that Ebola in vomit could stay viable for days, and then when you hire some unprotected, uninformed workers go power wash it and create an aerosol (like was done with Dallas Patient Zero) it is . . . unbelievably idiotic and incompetent.
The Keystone Cops have been in charge of all of this so far.
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A second healthcare worker has tested positive......was watching the news and they were discussing that it may be time to lock down the hospital.....they being a former CDC asst director and an infectious Disease Dr
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Am I the only one out there who thinks the timing of this is beyond bad going into the cold/flu season? Here we have a deadly virus that presents like your normal wintertime malady until you start toejamting out blood. People who get a cough and a fever will just assume it's normal unless they have had contact with someone known to be infected. Then you add in the fact that everyone and their brother will be coughing and wheezing all over the cold and flu meds at the local pharmacy and trudging off to work because "it's just a cold". Throw in a little holiday travel to help get it moving.
No reason to worry though, it's almost impossible for the lay person to contract. It only becomes contagious when you are trained how to deal with it and wearing protective gear apparently.
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aaaaand I'm probably going to move back there by the end of the week?
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I am feeling even more strongly that it is horribly negligent to allow travel from Ebola-ravaged areas into the US.
This is the entire crux of the issue with me.
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It's 7AM Mountain Time.
Things that have struck me so far: 1) CDC is in Dallas with some nurses from Emory now. 2) Dallas Health Presbyterian was over their heads in this. 3) Statement from the Hospital reads like it was written by lawyers.
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(http://www.cdn.tv2.no/images/?imageId=5520065&panox=0&panoy=0&panow=100&panoh=63.817663817663814&heightx=13.636363636363635&heighty=0&heightw=34.94318181818182&heighth=100&width=-6&height=-3&digest=8975451794)
(http://gfx.nrk.no//mtYvAIjvsoBM_csAPawrhgW8LBqmHxzQoUf_p-01VK-Q)
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The end of time is upon us. Perhaps have all management of the CDC move to and set up in that Texas death trap, errrr, hospital. second, stop all air travel and quarantine everyone wishing to travel to the United States for 21 days. Within the united states No state to state travel for 21 days. We are just looking at the tip of the ice burg. How many people did this second health worker see and interact with , how many other patients within the hospital itself did this second health worker interact with over the last week, what about their families and the interactions of each family member.
At one time all new arrivals to the United States arriving in NEW York harbor were guests of the United States on Ellis Island for two weeks, which was the incubation period for typhoid and TB. Perhaps we need to impose such measures again today.
Of course travel restrictions will never happen, not with just an out break of two , no the government and the experts will wait , my guess is until we have 50 or more cases in 5 states and by then its' just to late.
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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No reason to worry though, it's almost impossible for the lay person to contract. It only becomes contagious when you are trained how to deal with it and wearing protective gear apparently.
+1
Then there are the poor family members. We have about 13 days to go to see if any of them (or any more health-care workers involved) got it.
Then, we have about 20 more days to find out if anyone got it from those people.
Meanwhile, folks are still jetting in each day from West Africa.
There need to be some major changes, and I hope that there are come, say, November as a good start.
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It has been said over and over and over it needs to be treated in Africa not over here, they need to move all necessary equipment to Africa and treat it over there.. This just keeps getting worse everyday.
Edit and what kind of worries me is that my son is a US Navy corpsman and I don't want him to end up in Africa.
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(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Ebola_zpsd5a405c1.jpg~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Ebola_zpsd5a405c1.jpg.html)
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aaaaand I'm probably going to move back there by the end of the week?
i'd buy a space suit first if i were you. two actually. one for you, one for the woman. crap.....a bunch. one for the kid too.....one for the dog.......
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The end of time is upon us. Perhaps have all management of the CDC move to and set up in that Texas death trap, errrr, hospital. second, stop all air travel and quarantine everyone wishing to travel to the United States for 21 days. Within the united states No state to state travel for 21 days. We are just looking at the tip of the ice burg. How many people did this second health worker see and interact with , how many other patients within the hospital itself did this second health worker interact with over the last week, what about their families and the interactions of each family member.
At one time all new arrivals to the United States arriving in NEW York harbor were guests of the United States on Ellis Island for two weeks, which was the incubation period for typhoid and TB. Perhaps we need to impose such measures again today.
Of course travel restrictions will never happen, not with just an out break of two , no the government and the experts will wait , my guess is until we have 50 or more cases in 5 states and by then its' just to late.
the highlighted part. but it'll never happen here.
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It has been said over and over and over it needs to be treated in Africa not over here, they need to move all necessary equipment to Africa and treat it over there.. This just keeps getting worse everyday.
Edit and what kind of worries me is that my son is a US Navy corpsman and I don't want him to end up in Africa.
remember when they brought that doctor back here? back then i was saying it was gonna be a mistake. i was called paranoid by friends and associates. guess they were a little off, huh?
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remember when they brought that doctor back here? back then i was saying it was gonna be a mistake. i was called paranoid by friends and associates. guess they were a little off, huh?
Bringing the doctor back did not pose a problem nor did it result in one. It's not the known factor that's a cause for worry, it's the unknown(s).
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Nothing on the news today except the idiot lady who stopped here to infect, er, visit her family. Now they are saying we should be safe because her symptoms didn't start until Tuesday after she landed in Texas. I call roadkill(BS) on that and worry for all the employees and other travelers who happened to cross paths with her dumb ass.
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Bringing the doctor back did not pose a problem nor did it result in one. It's not the known factor that's a cause for worry, it's the unknown(s).
in my mind, it set a precedent. it should not have happened, 'cause now every infected person wants to come here, no matter what they have to do to get here. THAT'S why i knew it'd be a problem.
don't get me wrong. i truly DO feel bad for those infected. BUT.........they need to be quarantined till they're known to be over it.
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Nothing on the news today except the idiot lady who stopped here to infect, er, visit her family. Now they are saying we should be safe because her symptoms didn't start until Tuesday after she landed in Texas. I call roadkill(BS) on that and worry for all the employees and other travelers who happened to cross paths with her dumb ass.
i can tell ya this. mom stays with me now. she doesn't go to my brothers any more. i'm stuck with her. that's a good thing, 'cause i can protect her. my brother, although i love him to death, is a moron. he can't. he won't. if this crap actually does get outta hand, i will find a way to keep mom from leaving the house till it's cleared up. i will continue to go to the shop, being as careful as i can, so i can keep paying the bills. if it gets too far outta hand, i'll close up for a bit, and stay here with her. whatever i hafta do to keep her safe.
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Nothing on the news today except the idiot lady who stopped here to infect, er, visit her family. Now they are saying we should be safe because her symptoms didn't start until Tuesday after she landed in Texas. I call roadkill(BS) on that and worry for all the employees and other travelers who happened to cross paths with her dumb ass.
You can thank the CDC too apparently.
Vinson told CBS Dallas Fort Worth that she was feeling ill before boarding her flight. She had a low grade fever, but she said that officials told her it was okay to get on the plane. Vinson told CBS that she called the CDC several times with concerns.
Ebola is only contagious when a patient is symptomatic. Vinson's 99.5 F fever wasn't high enough to be considered a symptom.
The CDC confirmed to FOX 4 News that they gave Vinson the green light to fly. "Vinson was not told that she could not fly," a government spokesperson told NBC News.
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John Wayne
"Alright Texas, You just stay right there."
(http://www.70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/John-Wayne-Cowboy-Poster.jpg)
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Are US airports doing any kind of screening at all?
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Read that the 2nd nurse left before Nina fell ill -- plus her phone calls to the CDC. You accusers get a fact now and then. Ignoramuses make things worse.
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My post of 6 Oct '14
A former chauffeur uses his head and when he finds out he's been infected leaves his shack in Liberia and fly's to the Land of the dumb where he knows even a Bum can get better free health care then the richest person in Liberia, "or probably any other place in Africa".
The guy knew he had it and he probably blew his lifes savings on his one shot for Zmapp and life. This is the real problem for developed countries here. The fact that there IS an incubation period. If you handled or had relations with someone sick of it in Africa you know your a dead man, or woman, walking cause nobody is going to help you, what with an almost nonexistant health care system. So you take your one shot to live and fly to America, or England, or Germany. Anywhere your passport will take you with enough dough to last you three weeks. Thats what this guy did and look at the stir he caused.
Im not saying dont help these people Im just saying help them over there. We need a total travel ban from affected countries, most of all for non-citizens. Its only a matter of time before Europe gets banged by Ebola. They have much stronger ties to Africa cause they robbed the place for centuries and I bet they put travel bans in place.
This is no joke. With every new infection the virus mutates and these INTL airports are just plain germ factories. We've caught them washing their feet in the sinks, pee'ing in the sinks, or wiping their bums and throwing the paper on the floor of the stall. I wont even use a public restroom in one.
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Are US airports doing any kind of screening at all?
last i'd read, they're taking temps of people coming from effected countries......
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Are US airports doing any kind of screening at all?
Apparently Frontier has no ebola fees.
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Are US airports doing any kind of screening at all?
I flew this weekend, and at security they were swapping everyone's hands with something that presumably detected bad stuff. They didn't say it was for Ebola virus (they didn't say what it was for, at all), but I've never seen them doing that before.
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I flew this weekend, and at security they were swapping everyone's hands with something that presumably detected bad stuff. They didn't say it was for Ebola virus (they didn't say what it was for, at all), but I've never seen them doing that before.
Yes they are checking body temps to see if the temp is below 100.4F. The nurse was 99.5F. But, even if the person is below 100.4F it doesn't mean the temp of the person can go above 100.4F on the flight or later.
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I flew this weekend, and at security they were swapping everyone's hands with something that presumably detected bad stuff. They didn't say it was for Ebola virus (they didn't say what it was for, at all), but I've never seen them doing that before.
Was the security that was swabbing everyone's hands wearing gloves? My guess is yes. Did that security person change gloves after swabbing each person's hand, my guess is NO. Welcome to the world of infection. That's how it starts.
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I flew this weekend, and at security they were swapping everyone's hands with something that presumably detected bad stuff. They didn't say it was for Ebola virus (they didn't say what it was for, at all), but I've never seen them doing that before.
They swab for nitroglycerin residue, i.e. for explosive residue.
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They swab for nitroglycerin residue, i.e. for explosive residue.
Yes most likely and because they didn't change gloves between each persons hands, they cross contaminated each swab.
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Yes most likely and because they didn't change gloves between each persons hands, they cross contaminated each swab.
You're going to buy a bubble to live in at this rate.
(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1987612929/10pcs-Disposable-medical-font-b-sterilizing-b-font-cotton-font-b-swab-b-font-font-b.jpg)
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They swab for nitroglycerin residue, i.e. for explosive residue.
Does it remain on hands even after you wash them?
(just for informational purposes :devil)
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Fortunately, the odds -- currently -- of a normal US citizen getting Ebola is lower than the chance of getting hit by lightning. My disgust is with refusal to implement easy policy that would significantly increase the probability of keeping it that way.
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Does it remain on hands even after you wash them?
(just for informational purposes :devil)
The test is effective, tho I dont want to go into to much detail. Even more so are the noses of our 4 legged partners.
Again I'd not want to go into much detail.
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Does it remain on hands even after you wash them?
(just for informational purposes :devil)
depends on what you wash with.
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Even more so are the noses of our 4 legged partners.
Heheh, I used to take an apple from the hotel to work for lunch every day when I was travelling on a job. Always carried it in the front pouch of my computer bag, with the power cable. Did this for a number of weeks.
Then I flew into Perth, where they control for incoming produce, even on domestic flights. I didn't have an apple in my computer bag, but a Beagle sat down next to it anyway. I explained to the handler, opened the bag, nothing there.
That dog gave me the dirtiest of looks...
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Fortunately, the odds -- currently -- of a normal US citizen getting Ebola is lower than the chance of getting hit by lightning. My disgust is with refusal to implement easy policy that would significantly increase the probability of keeping it that way.
To me it is not the current odds of getting ebola it is the fine line between controled and uncontroled that is scary.
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This is interesting. According to the World Health Organization (see http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/)):
"Recent studies conducted in West Africa have demonstrated that 95% of confirmed cases have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 21 days; 98% have an incubation period that falls within the 1 to 42 day interval."
So, 5% of Ebola infections have an incubation period longer than 21 days and 2% have incubation period longer than 42 days.
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I don't understand how this fool isn't worried.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/10/16/man-transfer-atlanta-clipboard-protective-hazmat-gear/17348663/
:cheers: Oz
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You have got to feel sorry for the orphans :old:
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I wish I could show you the ebola papers my friend has to sign for employer.
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This is interesting. According to the World Health Organization (see http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/)):
"Recent studies conducted in West Africa have demonstrated that 95% of confirmed cases have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 21 days; 98% have an incubation period that falls within the 1 to 42 day interval."
So, 5% of Ebola infections have an incubation period longer than 21 days and 2% have incubation period longer than 42 days.
Yes, it's dependent on the strain of Ebola, there are 5 different strains of Ebola that have been identified over the years and each has it's own incubation period. The current strain as identified as the source for the outbreak in West Africa and the United States and Spain are all the same strain and have an incubation period of between 1- 21 days.
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Yes, it's dependent on the strain of Ebola, there are 5 different strains of Ebola that have been identified over the years and each has it's own incubation period. The current strain as identified as the source for the outbreak in West Africa and the United States and Spain are all the same strain and have an incubation period of between 1- 21 days.
14-21 days. There is no one day incubation period for Ebola.
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(https://causescience.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/63315_cartoon_main.jpg)
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(https://causescience.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/63315_cartoon_main.jpg)
Alcohol, obesity, and tobacco problems are not centralized in the USA. And in the end (God forbid), neither will be ebola.
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Image removed
You can lose weight, stop smoking and stop drinking. less than 1% recover from ebola. The US Government admits that currently on a daily basis 10 to 15 people from the infected countries of West Africa enter the US with no monitoring or follow up or tracking and have no idea where they are traveling to within the United States. That's 300 a month, are they sick, most likely not, but who knows? why take the chance?
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You can lose weight, stop smoking and stop drinking. less than 1% recover from ebola. The US Government admits that currently on a daily basis 10 to 15 people from the infected countries of West Africa enter the US with no monitoring or follow up or tracking and have no idea where they are traveling to within the United States. That's 300 a month, are they sick, most likely not, but who knows? why take the chance?
Where did you get the less than 1%? If the mortality rate is 60-70% it means 30-40% survive the infection.
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No kidding... certain people are saying this is a mini-problem. or that it's going out soon so don't even think about it.. ok so I wrestled with it for a bit and came to the conclusion that that there's a few too many cases far as me, myself, and I am concerned to just completely force it out of my consciousness.. It's already more than just a few lightning strikes.. I admit it I fear it.. and respect it, and hope we can do something about the future, thank you very much
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No kidding... certain people are saying this is a mini-problem. or that it's going out soon so don't even think about it.. ok so I wrestled with it for a bit and came to the conclusion that that there's a few too many cases far as me, myself, and I am concerned to just completely force it out of my consciousness.. It's already more than just a few lightning strikes.. I admit it I fear it.. and respect it, and hope we can do something about the future, thank you very much
People have a very real reason to fear it, especially with the government taking little to no precautions to stop it. The incubation time is so long and probability of infection on contact so high that the infection can go from patient zero to tens of thousands before anything gets detected. If the epidemic breaks out hospitals will probably just stop admitting patients or be forced to shut down all of its operation. Patients will be told to remain curfewed at home at penalty of death until symptoms are gone.
There has never been a better time to be a survivalist. Only total isolation is safe if ebola spreads to a major city - they're totally insane taking patients anywhere near high population areas. Even if the patient is in containment in an ambulance, all it takes is a car crash and the jack is out of the box.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html
That's the problem. Thing is you can only catch it by contact with body fluids, and it can be contained, but health care workers in this country haven't been trained to deal with it. Dallas wasn't, and that's why their nurses got sick.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html
That's the problem. Thing is you can only catch it by contact with body fluids, and it can be contained, but health care workers in this country haven't been trained to deal with it. Dallas wasn't, and that's why their nurses got sick.
I am not sure I believe the virus can only be contracted by "contact with bodily fluids". At this point, that is a guess.
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Where did you get the less than 1%? If the mortality rate is 60-70% it means 30-40% survive the infection.
The math doesn't prove it out, look at the numbers in West Africa, of identified populations , not estimates, but actual populations in treatment. 100 in a community went in, only 1 came out. Actual numbers, not the BS The World Health Organization (WHO) would like you to believe, but they are not counting just people identified with and test positive with Ebola, they count misdiagnosed cases that later test to be negative as cured. Its easy to cure someone of a deadly illness when they never had it in the first place. They go into a village or town and treat the ill and those that never had the illness are counted as cured along with those that survive.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html
That's the problem. Thing is you can only catch it by contact with body fluids, and it can be contained, but health care workers in this country haven't been trained to deal with it. Dallas wasn't, and that's why their nurses got sick.
It's enough for a sweaty person to touch a guard rail and you touch it after him/her inside 2 hours timeframe. Imagine a patient walking through a busy subway station..
Also one sneeze sprays aerosol microparticles that can remain airborne in still air for 4 hours, more if there's airflow. Scary stuff.
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Hmmm. Thing is, there was a case in Lagos, a teeming mass of humanity if ever there was one. It doesn't seem to have spread. Same in Senegal.
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Hmmm. Thing is, there was a case in Lagos, a teeming mass of humanity if ever there was one. It doesn't seem to have spread. Same in Senegal.
Seem is a good word. Time will tell.
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Germany has a few cases of ebola with the first death just this past week. No nation is safe. Having said that, only 4 cases in a country such as Germany is not exactly an outbreak
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Germany has a few cases of ebola with the first death just this past week. No nation is safe. Having said that, only 4 cases in a country such as Germany is not exactly an outbreak
It's very foolish to downplay the threat. This is can be worse than the Spanish flu that killed millions in the past. 4 known cases now may grow exponentially if even one patient gets viral and is undetected.
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It's very foolish to downplay the threat. This is can be worse than the Spanish flu that killed millions in the past. 4 known cases now may grow exponentially if even one patient gets viral and is undetected.
Please don't misunderstand me - I respect and fear the virus. Germany has taken precautions which seem to be working. At this point, only four cases of the infection point to a success in the strategy.
Time will tell.
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Number of deaths: 2,515,458
Death rate: 807.3 deaths per 100,000 population
Life expectancy: 78.7 years
Infant Mortality rate: 6.07 deaths per 1,000 live births
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518
semp
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Number of deaths: 2,515,458
Death rate: 807.3 deaths per 100,000 population
Life expectancy: 78.7 years
Infant Mortality rate: 6.07 deaths per 1,000 live births
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518
semp
Interesting numbers; the suicide rate is striking crazy, 39,518/year :O,(365 days) means 108 suicides/ day or 4.5 /hour ;
sick materialistic apocaliptic world, people are only connected to material things and emotions ,and forget we come into this world naked and crying and we leave same way.
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i like turtles
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i like turtles
I second this.
Very surprised this thread has actually managed to survive.
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To me it is not the current odds of getting ebola it is the fine line between controled and uncontroled that is scary.
annnnd THIS is what about 99% of the uninformed people in the country don't understand.
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(https://causescience.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/63315_cartoon_main.jpg)
all in that pic are choices, except for one.
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the thing is that this virus can be spread stupidly easy, pretty much in any country. it can also be contained stupidly easy, IF they'd stop worrying about political correctness, and whos feelings might/might not get hurt.
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(http://media.kmov.com/images/Ebola_Patient-10-2-14.jpg)
This is why you must worry, our government is in control of this
FUBAR is a term that is well into its second month now
NwBie
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Pretty much seems to me that our infection rate is equal to Africa's. Even with our so called 1st class health system, tho yes we are behind west Africa in terms of duration of exposure. For every one infection there is an average of two others getting infected. Same as in West Africa. The point is, and what these morons we put in office are trying to spin around, is that we dont understand this disease, have no idea how to contain it, there is no cure, and there is no vaccine.
For a first responder who works in a huge INTL airport it is very scarey. I dont think we have any handle on this and its going to end up being a major catastrophe. My belief is we are losing the window of containing it.
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Pretty much seems to me that our infection rate is equal to Africa's. Even with our so called 1st class health system, tho yes we are behind west Africa in terms of duration of exposure. For every one infection there is an average of two others getting infected. Same as in West Africa. The point is, and what these morons we put in office are trying to spin around, is that we dont understand this disease, have no idea how to contain it, there is no cure, and there is no vaccine.
For a first responder who works in a huge INTL airport it is very scarey. I dont think we have any handle on this and its going to end up being a major catastrophe. My belief is we are losing the window of containing it.
So it's growing already exponentially. Game over.
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I can't help but sit here and laugh at you all
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I can't help but sit here and laugh at you all
Oops. That was a mirror you were looking at. ;)
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Number of deaths: 2,515,458
Death rate: 807.3 deaths per 100,000 population
Life expectancy: 78.7 years
Infant Mortality rate: 6.07 deaths per 1,000 live births
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518
semp
If this was your attempt to showcase your complete misunderstanding of the nature of the threat you succeeded gallantly! If drastic measures to stop Ebola are not taken your chart will have a new number one killer that's going to outnumber all of the other diseases combined by a factor of at least 10. Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Ebola is not an airborne virus and you can't get it from sneezes or coughs. You can get it if you come into direct contact with body fluids. The Dallas health care workers got sick is because they were not trained in using proper decontamination procedures. The reason why it spreads so easily in Africa is because they don't have the same level of hygiene knowledge nor the facilities to properly quarantine people who are exposed. This thing is not going to get out of hand in developed countries because we have better facilities and we can better isolate the disease *provided* people are educated correctly. We need a program to teach health care workers proper bio-protection protocols, and we need to make sure all major hospital facilities are trained on how to handle the virus. Dallas clearly wasn't and a grand total of 2 workers, out of everyone involved in treating the first case, got sick. Just two. Not their families, not their friends, not people they met on a bus, just the two that directly touched the patient's fluids.
Get a grip, this isn't a zombie outbreak.
Oh, and FYI, thousands of people died in the US because of HIV and AIDS related illnesses before the government did anything about it. *That's* what you call being non-responsive.
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So it's growing already exponentially. Game over.
Yes. Some people cant seem to understand that, what with their little stats about heart disease and cancer and what not. We can prevent and treat heart disease and cancer. Even you can by not smoking and not eating like a swine. As for suicide its easy it prevent, just dont stick a .45 in your mouth and pull the trigger. With ebola theres nothing you can do, and its virtually a death sentence if the health system is overwhelmed. Now the cat is out of the bag, most of all in west Africa, and nothing short of a naval blockade will contain it there. If that even. Even in those men that recover the virus lives on in semen for two months after and we have seen what happens with sexually transmitted diseases in Africa with HIV. There is just no trust in health care systems over there and to little education.
So they get infected...and scared...and they see their one chance for life is a flight to a 1st world country. If one of our kids was that sick would we not do the same? And so far the reaction by the health care systems in America and Spain have been no different then the ones in Africa.
OK now we stop and give the thermometer to all visitors from west Africa. Well what do we do if the infected one we check has infected other travelers on the airplane flying in from other places? All its takes is a sneeze in an eye or maybe share bums on a toilet seat. And if the guy with the fever doesnt want to go into isolation who do they call? They call dummies like me who are now on the front lines of the ebola war and havnt even been issued latex gloves yet. So now we have to fight with a spitter, and they all spit cause they are in America and spitting at blue is apparently a right. So again another chain of ebola infection is created. One will become two, will become 4, will become 8. And on it goes.
Even worse with each new infection the virus mutates slightly and eventually it will become airborne and 1/2 of mankind will be dead. I know we cant discuss Politics here but its exactly that which is going to get us all killed. We have some clown running the show who is more worried about his legacy as co-King of Liberia then of his own countrymen. They keep wheeling out expert drones who say we are worrying about nothing and meanwhile west Africa is a Petry dish on a mathematical doomsday clock and its going to drag us all down with it. And the only safety net we have in place is a questionnaire and a thermometer.
How well did that work for Thomas Duncan? Who lied on the questionnaire after he'd been banging a pregnant girl he later discovered to be infected and he flew to America cause he was scared.
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Ebola is not an airborne virus and you can't get it from sneezes or coughs. You can get it if you come into direct contact with body fluids.
Achoo....
(http://www.iflscience.com/sites/www.iflscience.com/files/styles/ifls_large/public/blog/%5Bnid%5D/2826724783_eb9ff39afa_z.jpg?itok=rS3PbchC)
:t
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The point of the cartoon I posted was the unnesseary (based on basically uninanimous conclusions made by leading experts/scientists of the field) hysteria in the US and in this thread for example. As I'm not an expert nor a scientist of the field in question (nor is anyone in this thread AFAIK) I make the logical decision to believe those who have so much more knowledge than I, instead of randomly screaming SHEEET WE'RE ALL GONNA DIEEEEEEEEE!
...not that whiping out half of the human population, starting from those who consume natural rescourses the most, would be bad thing at all for this planet.
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Ebola is not an airborne virus and you can't get it from sneezes or coughs. You can get it if you come into direct contact with body fluids.
Your statement is not accurate, when you sneez or cough, you expell droplets into the air. If you came into contact with those droplets from an ebola patient, you could contract ebola. It's true that this version of ebola is not spread as an airborn virus is spread, such as the flu, however, when someone sneezes or coughs that person is emitting drops of body fluid, as well as air creating a spray of liquid, that liquid is body fluid. How long that ebola can live outside of a human host is not exactly known. The ebola airline passenger was in that seat did she cough, sneeze, did she then touch the back of back of the seat in front of her, the arm rests , how well do they clean the seats between flights, guess what, they don't. Five other flights took place on that same aircraft, 5 additional people one from each flight, sat in the exact same cesspool that the ebola patient sat in.
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Your statement is not accurate, when you sneez or cough, you expell droplets into the air. If you came into contact with those droplets from an ebola patient, you could contract ebola. It's true that this version of ebola is not spread as an airborn virus is spread, such as the flu, however, when someone sneezes or coughs that person is emitting drops of body fluid, as well as air creating a spray of liquid, that liquid is body fluid. How long that ebola can live outside of a human host is not exactly known. The ebola airline passenger was in that seat did she cough, sneeze, did she then touch the back of back of the seat in front of her, the arm rests , how well do they clean the seats between flights, guess what, they don't. Five other flights took place on that same aircraft, 5 additional people one from each flight, sat in the exact same cesspool that the ebola patient sat in.
The Ebola virus stays virulent on surfaces for several hours and in human body fluids such as blood it can remain active for several days. So if someone sneezes with ebola, the droplets will remain 4 hours airborne in still air and be contagious. Airborne spray is also the studied method of spreading in the original host, primates.
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Ebola is not an airborne virus and you can't get it from sneezes or coughs. You can get it if you come into direct contact with body fluids. The Dallas health care workers got sick is because they were not trained in using proper decontamination procedures. The reason why it spreads so easily in Africa is because they don't have the same level of hygiene knowledge nor the facilities to properly quarantine people who are exposed. This thing is not going to get out of hand in developed countries because we have better facilities and we can better isolate the disease *provided* people are educated correctly. We need a program to teach health care workers proper bio-protection protocols, and we need to make sure all major hospital facilities are trained on how to handle the virus. Dallas clearly wasn't and a grand total of 2 workers, out of everyone involved in treating the first case, got sick. Just two. Not their families, not their friends, not people they met on a bus, just the two that directly touched the patient's fluids.
Get a grip, this isn't a zombie outbreak.
Oh, and FYI, thousands of people died in the US because of HIV and AIDS related illnesses before the government did anything about it. *That's* what you call being non-responsive.
hindsight will be 20/20. This problem is not over yet. I would guess Dallas took there case very seriously and performed as best they could. There practices were not good enough. New protocol will be formed, therefore treatment will advance. If there new method is insufficient they will have to try again. If they contain and eradicate ebola from america, then we will have the upper hand. This has not happened yet.
I thought the WHO said 10,000 new infections in africa expected. :headscratch:
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If this was your attempt to showcase your complete misunderstanding of the nature of the threat you succeeded gallantly! If drastic measures to stop Ebola are not taken your chart will have a new number one killer that's going to outnumber all of the other diseases combined by a factor of at least 10. Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
So it's growing already exponentially. Game over.
well I'll tell you what ripley, since you dont live in this country but since there has who knows how many sick passengers on airplanes which could have already spread the disease all over the world. so I'll worry when you begin to seal your doors and windows and wear a space suit when you water your lawn.
up until then :neener:. if in 21 days the usa is not longer here then I'll apologize. :rolleyes:
ebola jokes now:
Steve Jobs should be dancing right now. windows dont have to be fixed anymore :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
I am not paying taxes anymore, who's gonna collect :banana: :banana:
I'll never know if my ssd really lasts 25 years :bhead damn you ripley you made me waste 130 bucks.
we'll never see AH3 and if it they bring the sheep back :cry :cry :cry
semp
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...and wear a space suit when you water your lawn.
Not much need to water the lawn in Finland at this time of the year.
But then again I'm sure if a world's map would be shown to you and "Finland" would read in place of (let's say) "Portugal" and vice versa, you'd swallow it hook-line-and sinker.
LOL
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Not much need to water the lawn in Finland at this time of the year.
But then again I'm sure if a world's map would be shown to you and "Finland" would read in place of (let's say) "Portugal" and vice versa, you'd swallow it hook-line-and sinker.
LOL
it was just a joke man. after all, some of my ancestors are from portugal. which is right next to spain. I even was friends with some exchange students that came from Finland back in high school.
I even have relatives that came from germany, heck some came from mexico too, imagine that :uhoh.
semp
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Ebola is not an airborne virus and you can't get it from sneezes or coughs. You can get it if you come into direct contact with body fluids. The Dallas health care workers got sick is because they were not trained in using proper decontamination procedures. The reason why it spreads so easily in Africa is because they don't have the same level of hygiene knowledge nor the facilities to properly quarantine people who are exposed. This thing is not going to get out of hand in developed countries because we have better facilities and we can better isolate the disease *provided* people are educated correctly. We need a program to teach health care workers proper bio-protection protocols, and we need to make sure all major hospital facilities are trained on how to handle the virus. Dallas clearly wasn't and a grand total of 2 workers, out of everyone involved in treating the first case, got sick. Just two. Not their families, not their friends, not people they met on a bus, just the two that directly touched the patient's fluids.
Get a grip, this isn't a zombie outbreak.
Oh, and FYI, thousands of people died in the US because of HIV and AIDS related illnesses before the government did anything about it. *That's* what you call being non-responsive.
Actually that's not true. Lots of diseases that aren't airborne are transmissible by coughing and sneezing. As I pointed out earlier in the thread the flu isn't an airborne virus either. When they say airborne virus they mean an airborne organism, with airborne pathogens like tb or measels you need special respirators as part of your protective gear. A mouse, like influenza and ebola, isn't an airborne organism either, but you can throw a mouse around pretty easily.
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...not that whiping out half of the human population, starting from those who consume natural resourses the most, would be bad thing at all for this planet.
Sure, it would be just great. Unfortunately even if you and your family survived the disease, which some of you wouldnt, there would be a complete social break down. No electricity, no food, no heat, no running water, no Law, no medical care. Only the Law of the jungle, like something out of The Walking Dead. Sounds just swell.
I dont think this is going to happen but I think it CAN happen if we dont get on top of this thing and quit playing games with it. Kinda makes me wish I hadnt spent so much time looking into this virus thing. Experts for years have been using the word "when" and not "if".
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Sure, it would be just great. Unfortunately even if you and your family survived the disease, which some of you wouldnt, there would be a complete social break down. No electricity, no food, no heat, no running water, no Law, no medical care. Only the Law of the jungle, like something out of The Walking Dead. Sounds just swell.
For the species that suffer the most on this planet right now (large part of animals), 100% due to actions of human race, it would sound like winning the lottery.
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So, what are we predicting, 15 million deaths in the US, unless the government, which is incompetent, takes extreme measures, which can't be trusted to take? Is that about right?
The Alex Joneseses of the world must be loving this - FEMA camps!!
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I can't help but sit here and laugh at you all
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then either you have failed to properly grasp the situation, or you have found someone else to blame. Or you could be an eijit
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Alcohol, obesity, and tobacco problems are not centralized in the USA. And in the end (God forbid), neither will be ebola.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! Somebody gets it
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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then either you have failed to properly grasp the situation, or you have found someone else to blame. Or you could be an eijit
I haven't lost my head because I can't do a damn thing about Ebola and I realize I can't.
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I haven't lost my head because I can't do a damn thing about Ebola and I realize I can't.
No, you can put pressure on your politicians to stop being idiots and to stop travel into the US for citizens of Ebola-epidemic areas.
That would help with transmission into the US, and if it is put in place (as it should be) it will be because people agitated for it, since we know that the current administration and its servants are highly biased against such action and would not do it except from large amounts of popular pressure.
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For the species that suffer the most on this planet right now (large part of animals), 100% due to actions of human race, it would sound like winning the lottery.
Dude what are you talking about? A bunch of cow's giving high hooves over payback to the hamburger eaters?
Im talking about a merciless virus. Do you have children?
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So, what are we predicting, 15 million deaths in the US, unless the government, which is incompetent, takes extreme measures, which can't be trusted to take? Is that about right?
The Alex Joneseses of the world must be loving this - FEMA camps!!
would love to see how you are predicting that.
semp
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Dude what are you talking about? A bunch of cow's giving high hooves over payback to the hamburger eaters?
Not really no. Talking more about the wildlife than breeds that are basically human creations.
Im talking about a merciless virus.
And?
Do you have children?
Nope. Not gonna have any either.
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well I'll tell you what ripley, since you dont live in this country but since there has who knows how many sick passengers on airplanes which could have already spread the disease all over the world. so I'll worry when you begin to seal your doors and windows and wear a space suit when you water your lawn.
Actually I'm going to stock up on emergency supplies and get a full body protection suit for all family members, just in case there is a major outbreak. We have our own well on our property and plenty of rain water and birch trees to burn so in that aspect we're lucky I guess. That may not make a difference in the end but nothing stops me from trying. The only way to truly survive a major outbreak would be to be able to grow your own food so you don't have to be in contact with outside world at all until the disease literally dies in its natural way. This we can't start to do yet but our property enables maintaining a couple of sheep and chicken easily if excrement hits the fan.
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would love to see how you are predicting that.
semp
Indeed, would be good to see how that's being predicted, but it's not me doing the predicting. Just going off what some folks have posted here. So yes, would love to see how it's being predicted.
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Is it the end of the world yet?
Has North Korea invaded again?
Is U2 still poo? and mega rich?
Is the US always right still?
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The real threat to the US is an ebola outbreak in Latin America.
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Indeed, would be good to see how that's being predicted, but it's not me doing the predicting. Just going off what some folks have posted here. So yes, would love to see how it's being predicted.
"1" becomes 100 monitored http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/18/more-than-100-monitored-for-ebola-symptoms-in-ohio/
Another "1" becomes how many monitored because of complete health care screw ups? http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/18/ebola-lapses-persisted-for-days-at-dallas-hospital-medical-records-show/
"3" becomes how many monitored? And how many will get infected? http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/19/health/us-ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Meanwhile the virus super highway is still wide open. http://www.flightradar24.com/38.17,-54.11/4
Its been proven in history, even modern history, that its imposable to stay ahead of a virus without a vaccine. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/10/health/epidemics-through-history/?hpt=hp_t1
So far ebola has shown an R-naught of 2. Thats 2 new infections for every previous infection and its been the same here as its been in Africa. Hell even the flu has an R-naught of only 1. So now we have a virus on our shores with an R-naught of 2 and there is no treatment, no vaccine, and its anywhere from 50% to 90% fatal. There are currently 35 m HIV infected in the world along with an additional 25 m already dead from it. And HIV is far harder to catch then ebola.
So far its 8,000 infected. By Jan 2015 they are predicting 1.4 m world wide.
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"1" becomes 100 monitored http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/18/more-than-100-monitored-for-ebola-symptoms-in-ohio/
Another "1" becomes how many monitored because of complete health care screw ups? http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/18/ebola-lapses-persisted-for-days-at-dallas-hospital-medical-records-show/
"3" becomes how many monitored? And how many will get infected? http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/19/health/us-ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Meanwhile the virus super highway is still wide open. http://www.flightradar24.com/38.17,-54.11/4
Its been proven in history, even modern history, that its imposable to stay ahead of a virus without a vaccine. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/10/health/epidemics-through-history/?hpt=hp_t1
So far ebola has shown an R-naught of 2. Thats 2 new infections for every previous infection and its been the same here as its been in Africa. Hell even the flu has an R-naught of only 1. So now we have a virus on our shores with an R-naught of 2 and there is no treatment, no vaccine, and its anywhere from 50% to 90% fatal. There are currently 35 m HIV infected in the world along with an additional 25 m already dead from it. And HIV is far harder to catch then ebola.
So far its 8,000 infected. By Jan 2015 they are predicting 1.4 m world wide.
you forgot to say that that is their worst case scenario.
semp
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To all those who would want to trivialize this outbreak: It is already an order of magnitude worse than any previously recorded outbreak of Ebola. The previous worst outbreak was in Uganda in 1976 and killed 280 people. This strain is something new and far worse. More people have been killed in this outbreak alone than in all other outbreaks in recorded history of Ebola virus, Sudan virus, Reston virus, Taï Forest virus, and Bundibugyo virus combined.
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One last thing...when this burns out...when it's contained and we're all still here and not going all Rick Grimes and Daryl Dixon on each other, are you going to man up and say you were wrong? Because if you're right, I'll be dead and that should be good enough for you.
I'm done here.
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Wrong about what?
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I believe his false assumption that there is no difference between taking this outbreak seriously and taking unnecessary precautions is causing him to reject any further discussion about the topic.
If another case comes flying ashore and requires our healthcare workers to receive blood transfusions from our limited supply of ebola proof blood...well i guess the commerce guys will be getting a call from the health care guys saying" Were loosing 2 million dollars a day how much will you guys loose if we stop letting flights in from liberia?"
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Good news: gal on the cruise ship health is clean :aok
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I think it's interesting that they are enforcing travel restrictions on US health-care workers who have been near someone with Ebola, but they don't have travel restrictions for non-US citizens from Ebola-epidemic areas.
The current people in charge either are inexcusably inept or have an agenda other than welfare of the nation.
I hope that people aren't foolish enough to botch the fix for this next month. Hint to you, Kansas (among others).
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Is it the end of the world yet?
Has North Korea invaded again?
Is U2 still poo? and mega rich?
Is the US always right still?
No.
Yes (but it's still secret).
No yes.
Which part of the US?
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Fear itself:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/10/17/syracuse-university-bravely-saves-students-from-exposure-to-journalism
Where is the eyeroll emoticon?
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Social distancing is the best defense against an outbreak, but that was perhaps a bit of an overreaction.
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I think it's interesting that they are enforcing travel restrictions on US health-care workers who have been near someone with Ebola, but they don't have travel restrictions for non-US citizens from Ebola-epidemic areas.
The current people in charge either are inexcusably inept or have an agenda other than welfare of the nation.
I hope that people aren't foolish enough to botch the fix for this next month. Hint to you, Kansas (among others).
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I remember this article about famine , published last month in National Geographic, the map shows West Africa, Liberia and Ivory Coast as top unnourished places; weak undernourished bodies can't fight diseases;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140916-world-hunger-malnourishment-security-ngfood/
This photo blew my mind,powerful; comes on my mind every time I fill up my truck and I see the green B15-B20 sticker on the pump;
"A woman sits with a pot of dried mud cookies—a local dish made of dirt, salt, and vegetable shortening....".
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-content/photos/000/837/cache/83707_990x742-cb1410804024.jpg)
And from last week article ,we are wasting 1/3 of the food we buy;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141013-food-waste-national-security-environment-science-ngfood/
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Wrong about what?
Yeah, what is he talking about? Jeez, no I'll be totally pissed if the outbreak "burns out" and none of us die. In fact I'll be so pissed I'll never talk to him again. :huh And then I'll "man up" and say Im sorry for not reciting the best case scenario, "which is what exactly "?
Thing is we have bad track records with taking viruses seriously. Millions died cause the '80s crew crew decided Gays with AIDs weren't worth the trouble cause they were all sinners. Now this guy likes to bury his head in the sand whenever something doesn't fit his agenda or looks bad for his track record in Africa.
Back in the '80s I was in the front line of AIDs too. This is when we were hauling bodies in wagons with no protective gear of any kind. Young men who died when they shouldnt have with a disease nobody understood, that we couldnt keep up with. So what exactly in our historical track record would make me believe in a "best case scenario"?
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I remember this article about famine , published last month in National Geographic, the map shows West Africa, Liberia and Ivory Coast as top unnourished places; weak undernourished bodies can't fight diseases;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140916-world-hunger-malnourishment-security-ngfood/
This photo blew my mind,powerful; comes on my mind every time I fill up my truck and I see the green B15-B20 sticker on the pump;
"A woman sits with a pot of dried mud cookies—a local dish made of dirt, salt, and vegetable shortening....".
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-content/photos/000/837/cache/83707_990x742-cb1410804024.jpg)
And from last week article ,we are wasting 1/3 of the food we buy;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141013-food-waste-national-security-environment-science-ngfood/
This has nothing to do with the outbreak. The famine is a direct consequence of the irresponsible politics run by the affected countries. They brought it up on themselves.
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This has nothing to do with the outbreak. The famine is a direct consequence of the irresponsible politics run by the affected countries. They brought it up on themselves.
We have a winner who finally understands
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This has nothing to do with the outbreak. The famine is a direct consequence of the irresponsible politics run by the affected countries. They brought it up on themselves.
Mud pies are to blame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry
This is the most paranoid thread to date and the most silly no wonder its not being locked its comedy :old:
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We have a winner who finally understands
Yes someone finally understands that ghi's reply to the topic on page 28 of the thread is irrelevant.
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I think a lot of people misunderstand what "burn out" actually means when it comes to virulent incurable diseases. The previous Ebola outbreaks have all been in rural African communities and have typically been snuffed out in weeks or months. But one main difference this time is that it has hit densely packed cities in West Africa, making the current outbreak an international threat. "Burn out" is not some biological process than makes the virus die out or something similar. "Burn out" means that the host population have developed enough individuals with effective immunity to curtail and eventually stop the spreading of the virus... Or... The host population has been so decimated that they've effectively become several separate populations and thus the spread of the virus is stopped through social distancing; simple lack of contact between groups of survivors.
Or to quote Dr. Bruce Aylward, WHO assistant director-general in charge of emergencies: "If control measures don't work, at some point, Ebola will have infected everyone who hasn't already been killed or recovered from the virus and there won't be enough people to maintain the virus' spread."
"Burn out" is by far the worst case scenario.
In the previous outbreaks in Africa the affected areas were effectively quarantined by the militant authoritative governments typical of those countries. After the virus had killed off most of the people in the affected villages and "burned itself out", the military moved in and cleaned up the mess. Typically using fire.
If Ebola becomes a global pandemic and we cannot stop it through vaccines it means that we would have to develop a natural group-immunity to to stop it. That means that about one in ten needs to get the virus and survive it. Now, if we use a very conservative estimate of the mortality of this virus that means that one in five of the world's population will be killed.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/Burning_village.jpg)
This is how the Ebola virus usually "burns out"...
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This has nothing to do with the outbreak. The famine is a direct consequence of the irresponsible politics run by the affected countries. They brought it up on themselves.
They said the same thing about AIDs. Eventually tho AIDs started infecting rich straight white people and all of a sudden all kinda treatments were found after billions were poured into the fight against it. Until then it was just a righteous punishment for the gay bath house sinners, never mind these were human beings suffering and dieing. A virus doesnt have "politics" its a health care issue, a battle against time. I now read were, or at least da Chief, is considering a travel ban from affected countries. He's backtracking cause he's getting beat up in the Polls because the average Joe cant understand why we just dont let anyone in who has one of three affected countries on his itinerary.
It doesnt matter who brought what to where. The world is at war against a pandemic and we have to spend whatever $$ is needed to stop it where it is worse. We have to help these poor people but we also have to isolate them until this thing is brought under control.
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They said the same thing about AIDs. Eventually tho AIDs started infecting rich straight white people and all of a sudden all kinda treatments were found after billions were poured into the fight against it. Until then it was just a righteous punishment for the gay bath house sinners, never mind these were human beings suffering and dieing. A virus doesnt have "politics" its a health care issue, a battle against time. I now read were, or at least da Chief, is considering a travel ban from affected countries. He's backtracking cause he's getting beat up in the Polls because the average Joe cant understand why we just dont let anyone in who has one of three affected countries on his itinerary.
It doesnt matter who brought what to where. The world is at war against a pandemic and we have to spend whatever $$ is needed to stop it where it is worse. We have to help these poor people but we also have to isolate them until this thing is brought under control.
I was talking about the famine i.e. starvation, not the disease. The first mass starvations started immediately when the ex colonies got self rule and they kicked out the colonialist farmers, destroyed their farms and celebrated their victory from colonialism - right up to the point when stockpiles finished and nobody was farming more food anymore.
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There are far too many political references and posts in this thread, making it impossible to salvage.
Locked for violation of forum posting rule #14.