General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VuduVee on July 16, 2016, 05:51:47 PM
Title: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 16, 2016, 05:51:47 PM
bish had 49 people, knits had 45, rooks had 29 today saturday the 16th. rooks fighting both fairly heavily. this is whats happened so far: a rook found KK and his bunch noe to rook AAA, 20 mins later another bish does an noe at the AAA then bails. then a single bish porked radar at a base then bailed. 10 mins later KK and his bunch do a mass bish noe to this base and take it. you have numbers and youre hiding in NOE raids, bomb and bailing. and doing it against the least numbers. if this isnt bad for AH, i dont know what is.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: FESS67 on July 16, 2016, 06:14:38 PM
Like I said in another thread - SNEAK a base is the preferred option now. Very few will fight for it.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Slate on July 16, 2016, 07:01:14 PM
Played AH3 for 3 hours today with 6-12 players had a blast. Dump this old game and get with it. :ahand
From the looks of it AH3 will be a success and maybe the furballs of yore will be once again. :airplane:
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 17, 2016, 02:49:26 AM
Played AH3 for 3 hours today with 6-12 players had a blast. Dump this old game and get with it. :ahand
From the looks of it AH3 will be a success and maybe the furballs of yore will be once again. :airplane:
New graphics will not magically change gameplay, and surely it won't change how the players act. You may have just happened to have the 'right' folks with you. As I wrote in another thread, a few weeks ago I was in beta and saw six guys rolling enemy bases without any opposition just like in EW. Currently, AH3 beta allows players to act just like in AH2. Wether this is a good or bad thing you have to decide yourself ;)
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Tumor on July 17, 2016, 03:13:34 AM
Like I said in another thread - SNEAK a base is the preferred option now. Very few will fight for it.
It's not even REALLY a "sneak" when a certain country who we'll let remain nameless (the initials are B.I.S.H.) do it... whack-a-mole is not exactly sneaky. Just find the target nearest to one of their bases but totally barren of activity, go there and wait. Viola! A target rich environment for killing, IF you can get'em before they bail. :angel:
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Randy1 on July 17, 2016, 06:20:14 AM
No doubt, it is time for HTC to rethink the city HQ and strat part of the game.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Traveler on July 17, 2016, 10:34:20 AM
No doubt, it is time for HTC to rethink the city HQ and strat part of the game.
HTC hasn't improved the game play ever. it's capture the flag and no strategy is required. There have been many requests over the last 17 years to improve the game play, so now we are getting pretty grass, sky and water. what is needed is a realistic roadway system, with a realistic River system, with bridges that can be destroyed and defended, used to create chock points to generate combat both ground and air. One way to bring along the new AH3 is for every subscriber to cancel their AH2 account and just play AH3 for free. Remember the promise of AH2 when we were all playing AH1 and how once the change over to AH2, HTC would have a better game engine that would make future upgrades easier to implement.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: oboe on July 17, 2016, 11:22:59 AM
HTC hasn't improved the game play ever. it's capture the flag and no strategy is required. There have been many requests over the last 17 years to improve the game play, so now we are getting pretty grass, sky and water. what is needed is a realistic roadway system, with a realistic River system, with bridges that can be destroyed and defended, used to create chock points to generate combat both ground and air. One way to bring along the new AH3 is for every subscriber to cancel their AH2 account and just play AH3 for free. Remember the promise of AH2 when we were all playing AH1 and how once the change over to AH2, HTC would have a better game engine that would make future upgrades easier to implement.
I don't know, Traveler - remember HTC introduced GVs to the game as another way to capture bases - I thought it was an improvement at the time. And they've definitely made tweaks over the years to address game imbalances - from perk system & ENY, moving locations of strats on maps, to changes in the side-switching time limit. Looks to me like they do try at least.
A re-designed transportation system is supposedly otw with AH3 - and I agree, what you describe may be the 'hook' that re-invigorates gameplay. I'm looking forward to trying it out. Its fun to imagine what might be possible. Or maybe the new mission system will help replace NOE hordes with more balanced action spread out over the map. I do think the better, more detailed topography in the new terrains is going to change the ground game a lot. But I'm a little concerned there will be even fewer pilots in the air.
AH3 is a totally new game engine, so I don't think its fair to hold HTC to the same promise of easier upgrades in AH2.
<S>
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 17, 2016, 12:43:54 PM
i dont mind noe and sneaks or noe strat runs, thats not my issue. my issue is about when you do these. if you have 20 more people and your attacking the smallest team, do you really think you suck so bad that you need to NOE? is hurlmors little "base taker" squad so bad that they have to noe and then bail at the strats or noe 4 sets of lancs to a town, wf it, then bail and grab mass m3s? and doing it against half the players no less. these guys purposely hide from combat in a combat game. they play as dirty as possible and have no reservations in doing this. i really think they believe the world is going to end if they dont get that base. they are do anything, bottom line players. they are so worried about getting that base that they will hop on rooks or nits so they can bomb rook or nit strats and help the bish. thats how dirty they are. its pathetic in my opinion.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: lyric1 on July 17, 2016, 01:01:01 PM
i dont mind noe and sneaks or noe strat runs, thats not my issue. my issue is about when you do these. if you have 20 more people and your attacking the smallest team, do you really think you suck so bad that you need to NOE? is hurlmors little "base taker" squad so bad that they have to noe and then bail at the strats or noe 4 sets of lancs to a town, wf it, then bail and grab mass m3s? and doing it against half the players no less. these guys purposely hide from combat in a combat game. they play as dirty as possible and have no reservations in doing this. i really think they believe the world is going to end if they dont get that base. they are do anything, bottom line players. they are so worried about getting that base that they will hop on rooks or nits so they can bomb rook or nit strats and help the bish. thats how dirty they are. its pathetic in my opinion.
Lets face some facts the bomb & bail on strats is universal in all arenas. Plus all sides do it Nits in mid war a couple of new guys stalking early war. The split strat system has allowed the base takers to do this send noe Lancs to AAA bomb bail. Set of lancs to City strat bomb then bail.
Repercussions? Well a few minutes of flight on small maps and your at the only two strats you need to damage to capture bases. 3 hours of affect for very little work. We were better off under the mega strat system at least then contacts had to get above the auto acks to hit targets effectively.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Estes on July 17, 2016, 01:12:12 PM
Heres my concern, the alpha/beta has been out what? A year now? And other than vague descriptions about destructible bridges and such, all we have to go from is better graphics which if the numbers in the beta and reading the boards is any indicator - not many seem to be able to run, or at least run it with it looking any different from what it currently does. I don't know how many are still here that remember the whole combat tour thing, but that's my biggest concern is getting Deja-Vu over again.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 17, 2016, 01:16:08 PM
Lets face some facts the bomb & bail on strats is universal in all arenas. Plus all sides do it Nits in mid war a couple of new guys stalking early war. The split strat system has allowed the base takers to do this send noe Lancs to AAA bomb bail. Set of lancs to City strat bomb then bail.
Repercussions? Well a few minutes of flight on small maps and your at the only two strats you need to damage to capture bases. 3 hours of affect for very little work. We were better off under the mega strat system at least then contacts had to get above the auto acks to hit targets effectively.
no team plays as dirty as the bish. they have whole squads who bomb and bail. even vs a team with half the numbers they noe then bomb and bail. its not a HiTech problem, its a player mindset problem.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: lyric1 on July 17, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
no team plays as dirty as the bish. they have whole squads who bomb and bail. even vs a team with half the numbers they noe then bomb and bail. its not a HiTech problem, its a player mindset problem.
Frankly that is a comment that is just wrong. Same thing happens early morning Eastern time by a few Rook squadrons they gang Bish & no one else. Now the another known Bish hating squad is on the nits for the summer it will happen from that side as well.
Different times of day has different styles of game play. Bish rule the days Rooks rule the nights. The Knights rule Sunday nights only.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: oboe on July 17, 2016, 01:31:15 PM
I wonder in bomb and bail could be discouraged programmatically? E.g. If a player from a country bails from an undamaged bomber, the resupply/rebuild rate is increased for each of the other two contries? So bombing/bailing would be counter productive?
Or maybe killshooter for bomb and bail? I.e., If you bail from undamaged bombers, the damaged you caused by your drop is transferred to your own countries corresponding targets?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 17, 2016, 01:36:53 PM
I wonder in bomb and bail could be discouraged programmatically? E.g. If a player from a country bails from an undamaged bomber, the resupply/rebuild rate is increased for each of the other two contries? So bombing/bailing would be counter productive?
Or maybe killshooter for bomb and bail? I.e., If you bail from undamaged bombers, the damaged you caused by your drop is transferred to your own countries corresponding targets?
That would be abused extensively
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 17, 2016, 01:56:07 PM
Frankly that is a comment that is just wrong. Same thing happens early morning Eastern time by a few Rook squadrons they gang Bish & no one else. Now the another known Bish hating squad is on the nits for the summer it will happen from that side as well.
Different times of day has different styles of game play. Bish rule the days Rooks rule the nights. The Knights rule Sunday nights only.
youre wrong lyric. bish have the morning numbers every morning. it usually evens up right before prime time. but lately it hasnt from what i can see. considering i can up a 262 for 92 points at 6pm central.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: WEZEL on July 17, 2016, 02:20:05 PM
no team plays as dirty as the bish. they have whole squads who bomb and bail. even vs a team with half the numbers they noe then bomb and bail. its not a HiTech problem, its a player mindset problem.
I would disagree with that statement, never seen whole squads bail and I play defense 90% of the time for knights.
Bish are just more mission based team play and work well together.
Rooks are more of alt advantage BNZ players, that if you come in co alt they make a pass and dive for ack.
Knights just dont give a rats arse about the war, more lone wolf fighters that the other two country's combined.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: oboe on July 17, 2016, 02:20:10 PM
There must be a way to discourage Bomb-n-Bail. Though, after my first go I'm stuck - in reality these are just suicide missions, so the stipulation of bailing from undamaged bombers may not have the intended effect anyway. The suiciders would be as happy going in at low level and taking so much damage the bombers are destroyed, as long as they get the bombs on target beforehand.
Remember when (maybe its still this way?) you dropped a torp at a ship, if your plane was shot down before the torp struck, the torpedo was eliminated along with your destroyed aircraft?
Maybe the target damage could be put on a timer - and if your aircraft is destroyed (or you bail) before the timer ends, the damage done by the bombs is all cancelled?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 17, 2016, 02:29:10 PM
Remember when (maybe its still this way?) you dropped a torp at a ship, if your plane was shot down before the torp struck, the torpedo was eliminated along with your destroyed aircraft?
It never was that way. Originally it had been that if you were killed, your ords (torps, bombs, troops, rockets) were still in game no matter what. This was abused in several ways (lvts dry spawning releasing a hundred troops, a single guy putting dozends of torps in the water, gaming the score card by dropping a 4k bomb from a stuka then sitching to a vehicle before the bomb hits) that it was changed to the current model: Your ords stay in game as long as you do not reup after your death.
About 10 years ago HT himself was looking for ways to discourage bomb and bail, he even started a forum thread about it. Nothing came out of it, because all the proposals could either been worked around easily or were ineffective to begin with.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 17, 2016, 03:25:53 PM
Bomb and bail is mainly used to deny giving kills to the pursuing enemy, increasing the range of proxy from 3k to icon range would be a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: oboe on July 17, 2016, 03:35:55 PM
Bomb and bail is mainly used to deny giving kills to the pursuing enemy, increasing the range of proxy from 3k to icon range would be a step in the right direction.
I have definitely seen that, but isn't it also done because the flight back may be long and the player may need to get back to the base immediately to re-up for a second attack, or maybe to bring troops for a capture?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 17, 2016, 03:55:57 PM
Yes, that would make sense. But I was thinking of rewarding the effort and time the pursuer has given in chasing the bomb and bailer. The tactical advantage of bombing and bailing for a new mission is gamey, but it isn't so bad as long as the time "wasted" is in some way compensated for the Fighter. If nothing can be done to prevent the freedom of choice to bail, then adequate compensation should be to give up the lives to the nearest enemy in pursuit.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 17, 2016, 04:36:37 PM
Dolby then it's only fair to compensate the bombers when fighter make v several attemps then dives at first sign of damage to his own plane.
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 17, 2016, 04:45:22 PM
Sometimes semp I wonder if there should be a filter between your brain and typing fingers.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: lyric1 on July 17, 2016, 04:52:38 PM
youre wrong lyric. bish have the morning numbers every morning. it usually evens up right before prime time. but lately it hasnt from what i can see. considering i can up a 262 for 92 points at 6pm central.
From about 5.00am Eastern yes that is correct. From 1.00am until then though Rooks rule late war. Again just depends when your on & you get to see the other times of day & what others are doing.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Randall172 on July 17, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
if you a player can game the game, its the game not the player. fix the MA game mode.
Basketball just got rid of the "hack-a-shack" foul the bad freethrow shooter "meta" that was in basketball. games should evolve to the ways players play.
what ever happened to Tour of Duty?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 17, 2016, 05:12:58 PM
Bomb and bail is mainly used to deny giving kills to the pursuing enemy, increasing the range of proxy from 3k to icon range would be a step in the right direction.
THIS!!! Me likey long time!!!
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: lunatic1 on July 17, 2016, 07:57:39 PM
Heres my concern, the alpha/beta has been out what? A year now? And other than vague descriptions about destructible bridges and such, all we have to go from is better graphics which if the numbers in the beta and reading the boards is any indicator - not many seem to be able to run, or at least run it with it looking any different from what it currently does. I don't know how many are still here that remember the whole combat tour thing, but that's my biggest concern is getting Deja-Vu over again. [
Most people are waiting for the finished version to come out to see if it's playable for them. then decide what to do
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Estes on July 17, 2016, 08:33:46 PM
Quote
<snip>Most people are waiting for the finished version to come out to see if it's playable for them. then decide what to do
Not exactly what I was getting at. It will be a moot point if it ends up getting scrapped liked tour of duty or whatever it was called did, that was what I meant.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 17, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
I would disagree with that statement, never seen whole squads bail and I play defense 90% of the time for knights.
Bish are just more mission based team play and work well together.
Rooks are more of alt advantage BNZ players, that if you come in co alt they make a pass and dive for ack.
Knights just dont give a rats arse about the war, more lone wolf fighters that the other two country's combined.
I think Wezel nailed it.
As for my roll in this, I was on the first NOE mission, I think. We upped in Tu2's from the base right off the rook mainland, and followed the runway heading until we went feet dry. Nobody in the mission was shaking in their boots about getting spotted. We simply wanted the rush of a deep NOE strike. Face life: NOE strikes can be a lot of fun. I'd rather do something fun like NOE buffs than spend an hour climbing on the other side of the map, but that's me. I didn't see anyone bail, though.
Me personally, I think I lost my drones when I banked hard left to go back to vuduvee's group and start dog fighting in my Tu2. Then after my first pass or two I got rid of my ords to try to get the plane to handle better, but I blew my wing off because I was too close to the ground when I dropped.
But it was fun, and I'd do it again in heartbeat. I like missions, and tend to gravitate to them. I don't see NOE as hiding, either. I see it as wild fun for however long it lasts. Hiding to me is running at the first site of a plane that has a higher alt than you, or one that hits a radar in one pass then makes a bee-line back his base. (That's actually running AND hiding.)
As for bombing and bailing, I despise the practice:
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: lyric1 on July 17, 2016, 09:44:15 PM
As for my roll in this, I was on the first NOE mission, I think. We upped in Tu2's from the base right off the rook mainland, and followed the runway heading until we went feet dry. Nobody in the mission was shaking in their boots about getting spotted. We simply wanted the rush of a deep NOE strike. Face life: NOE strikes can be a lot of fun. I'd rather do something fun like NOE buffs than spend an hour climbing on the other side of the map, but that's me. I didn't see anyone bail, though.
Me personally, I think I lost my drones when I banked hard left to go back to vuduvee's group and start dog fighting in my Tu2. Then after my first pass or two I got rid of my ords to try to get the plane to handle better, but I blew my wing off because I was too close to the ground when I dropped.
But it was fun, and I'd do it again in heartbeat. I like missions, and tend to gravitate to them. I don't see NOE as hiding, either. I see it as wild fun for however long it lasts. Hiding to me is running at the first site of a plane that has a higher alt than you, or one that hits a radar in one pass then makes a bee-line back his base. (That's actually running AND hiding.)
As for bombing and bailing, I despise the practice:
I inspired someone. :D
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 17, 2016, 10:06:01 PM
Sometimes semp I wonder if there should be a filter between your brain and typing fingers.
actually i think the same about you. you want to force bombers to fight no matter what. but nothing of forcing fighters to engage until either they kill the bomber or die.
right now bombers have no incentive to fight at all. you know how many fighters I have damaged and then dive for the ground. so why shouldnt I bail my bombers if I feel like it, fighters bail out anytime they feel like it.
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 18, 2016, 01:07:43 AM
I would disagree with that statement, never seen whole squads bail and I play defense 90% of the time for knights.
Bish are just more mission based team play and work well together.
Rooks are more of alt advantage BNZ players, that if you come in co alt they make a pass and dive for ack.
Knights just dont give a rats arse about the war, more lone wolf fighters that the other two country's combined.
ok, you should ask Hurless how often they noe lancs and bail em then do mass m3s. while youre at it, ask him and ask popeye what they do when rooks arent attacking knit strats close to us. you'll really like that. as far as your evaluation of the teams, sounds like some penned up spite for the rooks from you. so i dismiss it as emotional response. because you could say that about every team.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 18, 2016, 04:33:48 AM
actually i think the same about you. you want to force bombers to fight no matter what. but nothing of forcing fighters to engage until either they kill the bomber or die.
right now bombers have no incentive to fight at all. you know how many fighters I have damaged and then dive for the ground. so why shouldnt I bail my bombers if I feel like it, fighters bail out anytime they feel like it.
semp
Bombers incentive is static targets and fighters incentive is bombers and other fighters. Bombers only need to hit their bombing target and then they can call the job done and bail. Fighter have to shoot down their target and can bail also if they so wish. I'm not sure how it'll help if bomber pilots by giving them kills on Fighters for Fighters diving away when damaged, as bombers can dive away when damaged also. Where were you going with this smep?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 18, 2016, 05:34:40 AM
As a bomber pilot, hitting my target and landing my bombers was a victory. Shooting down hostile fighters was a welcome icing on the cake. (Of course, too many unopposed sorties in a row made the game quite boring.) When I damaged a fighter enough to force a retreat, I considered that a 'victory' as well. Getting a kill credit was nice, but not necessary. I certainly never was angry about any fighter who decided to break off and head home.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Randy1 on July 18, 2016, 05:55:32 AM
Why in the world HTC hasn't added radar to the city and starts alludes me.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 18, 2016, 01:10:26 PM
so why shouldnt I bail my bombers if I feel like it, fighters bail out anytime they feel like it.
semp
The fighters aren't bailing out, they are breaking off the engagement due to either a wound or damaged plane. There is a very big difference, though I'm not entirely sure you're smart enough to see it.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Scca on July 18, 2016, 03:07:33 PM
ok, you should ask Hurless how often they noe lancs and bail em then do mass m3s. while youre at it, ask him and ask popeye what they do when rooks arent attacking knit strats close to us. you'll really like that. as far as your evaluation of the teams, sounds like some penned up spite for the rooks from you. so i dismiss it as emotional response. because you could say that about every team.
As long as lame moves are acceptable, the lame will continue to be lame. You can't ridicule, argue or convince them otherwise. And you can't fix it... it's genetic. AH for years has rewarded Suicidal flying and it's nothing new. From whole squads running kamikazee missions on bases/towns and who knows HOW many suicide tards have had their way with CVs. I don't think we're ever going to see anything different. Sorta have to just accept the fact that if there's an edge to be found in being a total lame-o, someone's going to exploit it, and be proud they did.
I would add... can't remember when but I remember HiTech asking for thoughts on how to prevent bombers from dive bombing (not exactly suicidal but lame to the max anyway). I don't think anything ever came of it, but at least we can be comforted in knowing HTC is aware that certain things are just... lame, and there's not much they can do about it.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Tumor on July 18, 2016, 05:56:55 PM
My squad tours a chess piece a month and while I can't argue that is your impression of your experience, mine is that they are all the same.
Are you a chess piece loyalist, or do you rotate around?
You can only really generalize either way. IMHO, the Knits are typically fun to fight, and pretty tough at times. The Bish are too at times, but there is a definite pattern of having to play whack-a-mole against them that stands out. Thing is, I think they know this and that's why they do it. I've watched them steamroll right in the middle of prime-time and Rooks don't give a poop because they know about the time they get into the fight... the fight friggin disappears. Can't say about Rooks as I'm always Rook, but I hardly ever hear anyone say "hey everyone, lets all go bomb a base/town and then bail so we can rush it with M3's". Just never ever heard that.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: 8thJinx on July 18, 2016, 06:20:02 PM
ok, you should ask Hurless how often they noe lancs and bail em then do mass m3s. while youre at it, ask him and ask popeye what they do when rooks arent attacking knit strats close to us. you'll really like that. as far as your evaluation of the teams, sounds like some penned up spite for the rooks from you. so i dismiss it as emotional response. because you could say that about every team.
I dont have to ask anyone, just saying what I see in game and for penned up spite you should look in the mirror first be for you accuse me of anything. I dont hold anything against anyone it game or any team, I can remember it's just a game.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: WEZEL on July 18, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
My squad tours a chess piece a month and while I can't argue that is your impression of your experience, mine is that they are all the same.
Are you a chess piece loyalist, or do you rotate around?
I move around from time to time,lots of good peeps on all side and it's cool to hang with them.
Yes all sides sometimes do the things I stated but most of the country playing style seems to gravitate the way I described. Just my opinion and nothing more.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Invictus84 on July 18, 2016, 07:14:56 PM
The OP's original post doesn't help.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 18, 2016, 08:11:44 PM
The fighters aren't bailing out, they are breaking off the engagement due to either a wound or damaged plane. There is a very big difference, though I'm not entirely sure you're smart enough to see it.
no, what you have is two standards. one for bombers and one for fighters.
-if you were in a fighter and get into a fight with another fighter and that fighter got damaged and ran away to ack or whatever you would be screaming bloody murder.
-if a fighter engages a bomber and got hurt and he dives down to rtb. then you think it's ok.
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vudak on July 18, 2016, 09:57:34 PM
I don't think most of the "good fight" crowd have a big issue with someone bugging out due to fuel, ammo, or damage. They might not realize that was the reason and need to be told (and may very well lay into him before they're told), but it's hard to fault a guy for bailing when he can't fight back any more.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 04:19:50 AM
I don't think most of the "good fight" crowd have a big issue with someone bugging out due to fuel, ammo, or damage. They might not realize that was the reason and need to be told (and may very well lay into him before they're told), but it's hard to fault a guy for bailing when he can't fight back any more.
A point I have made many times.
I have been out of gas or out of ammo plenty when a guy comes in for a fight. I bugged out, rearmed, came back. Usually they've moved on. I realize the player in question will find that frustrating, but I've been on the other side of that coin, too.
Damage and PW are also common, especially for a Pony fighting near ack.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 19, 2016, 08:37:37 AM
no, what you have is two standards. one for bombers and one for fighters.
-if you were in a fighter and get into a fight with another fighter and that fighter got damaged and ran away to ack or whatever you would be screaming bloody murder.
-if a fighter engages a bomber and got hurt and he dives down to rtb. then you think it's ok.
semp
so semp, youre advocating bombing and bailling?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 19, 2016, 11:37:23 AM
ive never seen a fighter bail because a bomber is too close. but i have seen bombers do this a thousand times. ive seen fighters get shot by bombers, get smoked or broke and bail. ive seen bombers do this too. if youre plane is broke no will say crap when you bail it. i never said a single thing about bailing broke planes. that has zero to do with anything i posted here. so, it seems like youre trolling to me. because not one thing youve written makes any sense at all.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 12:19:44 PM
ive never seen a fighter bail because a bomber is too close. but i have seen bombers do this a thousand times. ive seen fighters get shot by bombers, get smoked or broke and bail. ive seen bombers do this too. if youre plane is broke no will say crap when you bail it. i never said a single thing about bailing broke planes. that has zero to do with anything i posted here. so, it seems like youre trolling to me. because not one thing youve written makes any sense at all.
+1
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 19, 2016, 12:36:59 PM
no, what you have is two standards. one for bombers and one for fighters.
-if you were in a fighter and get into a fight with another fighter and that fighter got damaged and ran away to ack or whatever you would be screaming bloody murder.
-if a fighter engages a bomber and got hurt and he dives down to rtb. then you think it's ok.
semp
No, you don't have two standards at all. The fighter attempted to engage the bombers but was damaged, while in the other case the bomber pilot bails out before the fighter attacks in order to avoid combat.
ack-ack
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: bustr on July 19, 2016, 12:46:21 PM
Wonder how long this game would survive if Hitech changed the runway spawn system to spawning you in the air, co-alt, 3000yds from the nearest enemy plane to your current field? Would be hard on bombers and probably kill the bombing game in the first week. And the jabo game along with it. But, no more NOE base sneeking, no more base capturing, no more base resupplying in C47s. Just pure all night long instant fighter fights, maybe.
Lobbying Hitech to change the game in favor of one play style versus others is a time honored AH pastime. Hitech has responded over the years with changes good or bad but, not radical enough to force players to leave en masse. The changes have always had the feeling of an adjustment to the play functions versus the use of force to make customers do things they are not inclined to.
So how do you lobby Hitech to change the game to force customers not inclined to play your way, to comply and not have them cancel their subscription? The heart of your way is that they be forced into being physically located within a close enough distance to you that excludes any other play options but fighting your way.
So how does Hitech change the game to "force" everyone to fight all the time and not loose subscriptions? All of us know as the game programmer he has always had the option to force us to do this. Why has he chosen not to for 15 years?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vudak on July 19, 2016, 12:59:21 PM
Bustr, players have left en masse. Hopefully, subscribers haven't. Just saying.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Estes on July 19, 2016, 01:07:49 PM
bustr, you have some on your chin.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
No, you don't have two standards at all. The fighter attempted to engage the bombers but was damaged, while in the other case the bomber pilot bails out before the fighter attacks in order to avoid combat.
ack-ack
Emphatic +1
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 01:25:21 PM
If Hitech would give a kill when someone bails within icon range that would change things. Brand X gave you a proxy. Why we don't do that here is beyond me.
In real life bails were awarded to the man with the gun camera film. It should be the same here. At least the frustration level would go down a wee bit for many.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: EagleDNY on July 19, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
There is no "all in one" solution that can solve this problem. All you can do is add game elements that penalize bailing out or crashing a plane, and reward bringing a plane home. I like what used to happen in Red Baron when you played the war career - if you crashed, or got captured it would play some cinematic scenes for you causing a delay before you could re-up. Since it was following the actual timeline of the war this caused you to lose a month of possible sorties and kills each time you crashed or ditched behind enemy lines.
Just put a re-up delay in place and key it to whether you land, bail, ditch, or crash in friendly or enemy territory. Land in friendly territory - no delay, go ahead and re-up. Bail or Ditch in friendly territory - 30 sec delay while you are checked out by the flight surgeon. Crash in friendly territory - 60 sec delay while you recover in the hospital Land/Ditch in enemy territory - 60 sec delay while you escape back to your lines and rejoin your unit. Bail in enemy territory - 90 sec delay while you escape back, and then get checked out by the flight surgeon before being returned to duty. Crash in enemy territory - 2 minutes while you escape back, then get debriefed and checked out before being returned to duty.
You can add elements (like a x2 multiplier if your plane is undamaged when it happens, or a 0.5 multiplier if you get shot down & killed), and you can debate how long to make the delay, but it would provide a "penalty" for anything other than bringing your plane home and landing it successfully (which should always be a standard goal for any pilot).
You can also add elements that are only received if you bring a plane home, or enhanced because you need the perks to purchase them for your plane. You want gondies, or the big bombs, or drop tanks, rockets, etc. - make it cost a few perkies to get them and have to set it up and pay for it in the hanger for each plane type (then have it reset if you lose that ride since you are getting a new "factory fresh" ride).
There are plenty of elements that can be added to discourage bailing - it just takes the will and programming time to make it happen.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Wiley on July 19, 2016, 02:04:24 PM
2 things-
1) Still shorter than the half hour it takes to bring your bomber home and land, so why is it a deterrant? 2) Enforced waiting in tower when paying for a game and having limited playtime is going to cause fuss.
Wiley.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: waystin2 on July 19, 2016, 02:16:53 PM
If someone bails it is usually because I killed them with my mind. Ya know, like Scanners. (http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4207157/mindblown-o.gif)
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: bustr on July 19, 2016, 02:26:47 PM
There are plenty of elements that can be added to discourage bailing - it just takes the will and programming time to make it happen.
All of the quips after my post appear to hit the target since the authors wouldn't address the question, and the above gets to the heart of the question. None of you want to try and answer why has Hitech chosen not to "force" us to fight over 15 years of watching all of this play out?
Adjusting the game to control human nature becomes "force" against the subscriber's choice of how they want to play. In the end the solution falls back on lobbying Hitech to force other players to play your way for their $14.95. In an open sand box world you allow the broadest discretion of individual player choice in how they will interact with that world.
Structured game models "force" players to fall in line or be penalized in some manner for lack of compliance. The creator of Aces High over the last 15 years appears to favor the open world model and not "force" his subscribers to fall in line. If they want to runaway from most fights not in their favor, that's up to them for their $14.95. Hitech does not seem disposed to expressing the will to penalize them for that.
As for the current game running on the servers, it is about to be retired. I doubt this conversation is restricted to AH2 in this audiences mind. It is obvious some of you look at AH3 as AH2 reupholstered in fake "Fine Corinthian Leather" as Ricardo Montalban used to say to the world for Chrysler.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 02:29:55 PM
All of the quips after my post appear to hit the target since the authors wouldn't address the question, and the above gets to the heart of the question. None of you want to try and answer why has Hitech chosen not to "force" us to fight over 15 years of watching all of this play out?
Adjusting the game to control human nature becomes "force" against the subscriber's choice of how they want to play. In the end the solution falls back on lobbying Hitech to force other players to play your way for their $14.95. In an open sand box world you allow the broadest discretion of individual player choice in how they will interact with that world.
Structured game models "force" players to fall in line or be penalized in some manner for lack of compliance. The creator of Aces High over the last 15 years appears to favor the open world model and not "force" his subscribers to fall in line. If they want to runaway from most fights not in their favor, that's up to them for their $14.95. Hitech does not seem disposed to expressing the will to penalize them for that.
As for the current game running on the servers, it is about to be retired. I doubt this conversation is restricted to AH2 in this audiences mind. It is obvious some of you look at AH3 as AH2 reupholstered in fake "Fine Corinthian Leather" as Ricardo Montalban used to say to the world for Chrysler.
You're always right. :old: No direct reply to you is required as a result. :banana:
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: FESS67 on July 19, 2016, 02:40:54 PM
Even sneaking a base takes effort, provided the defenders come up and play.
If the base is undefended you cannot blame it on the sneakers.
Agreed if you have a standing army ready to deploy when an alarm is sounded. However, the current state sees few people spread over many bases and the time taken to RTB, switch bases and then re-up and be an effective fighting force is often too long to prevent a sneak. Sure, people could auger to reduce that time but at what point do you auger? The alarm might be for a lone 30k buff or a 15 strong sneak team. Never really know until it is too late.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 03:09:38 PM
Agreed if you have a standing army ready to deploy when an alarm is sounded. However, the current state sees few people spread over many bases and the time taken to RTB, switch bases and then re-up and be an effective fighting force is often too long to prevent a sneak. Sure, people could auger to reduce that time but at what point do you auger? The alarm might be for a lone 30k buff or a 15 strong sneak team. Never really know until it is too late.
True. Which is why many of us (you, too, I think) have asked for smaller maps or fewer bases.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Hungry on July 19, 2016, 03:36:02 PM
You're always right. :old: No direct reply to you is required as a result. :banana:
resistance is futile submit, the Borg will assimilate you
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Randy1 on July 19, 2016, 03:37:12 PM
I will tell this on myself. A good many moons ago, I was defending a gv base with a worble. This is before I learned to kill GVs with my P-38. I towered a few times from concrete when I heard their bombs coming. I got a nasty pm from a red but thought nothing more of it than some guy that was pissed. Then I got pretty good at killing GV s with my P-38. As you probably have seen where this story is going, a many GVs have safely towered on me when they heard my bomb coming. Tigers being the number one. Now it pisses me off. Now if a bomb comes when I am in a GV, I just suck it up and take it because I know the player took a risk and had used some of his limited ords.
The point of the story is this. it could be our bailing bombers have never climbed 30,000 feet in a fighter only to see the player bail. If they had, they might just fight it out.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Hungry on July 19, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
My point is don't change a thing in the game, continue to run it based on the wishes of a bunch of 50 year old plus gents, some of which are never wrong and will emphatically let you know that.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 19, 2016, 04:06:35 PM
There is no "all in one" solution that can solve this problem. All you can do is add game elements that penalize bailing out or crashing a plane, and reward bringing a plane home. I like what used to happen in Red Baron when you played the war career - if you crashed, or got captured it would play some cinematic scenes for you causing a delay before you could re-up. Since it was following the actual timeline of the war this caused you to lose a month of possible sorties and kills each time you crashed or ditched behind enemy lines.
Just put a re-up delay in place and key it to whether you land, bail, ditch, or crash in friendly or enemy territory. Land in friendly territory - no delay, go ahead and re-up. Bail or Ditch in friendly territory - 30 sec delay while you are checked out by the flight surgeon. Crash in friendly territory - 60 sec delay while you recover in the hospital Land/Ditch in enemy territory - 60 sec delay while you escape back to your lines and rejoin your unit. Bail in enemy territory - 90 sec delay while you escape back, and then get checked out by the flight surgeon before being returned to duty. Crash in enemy territory - 2 minutes while you escape back, then get debriefed and checked out before being returned to duty.
You can add elements (like a x2 multiplier if your plane is undamaged when it happens, or a 0.5 multiplier if you get shot down & killed), and you can debate how long to make the delay, but it would provide a "penalty" for anything other than bringing your plane home and landing it successfully (which should always be a standard goal for any pilot).
You can also add elements that are only received if you bring a plane home, or enhanced because you need the perks to purchase them for your plane. You want gondies, or the big bombs, or drop tanks, rockets, etc. - make it cost a few perkies to get them and have to set it up and pay for it in the hanger for each plane type (then have it reset if you lose that ride since you are getting a new "factory fresh" ride).
There are plenty of elements that can be added to discourage bailing - it just takes the will and programming time to make it happen.
I asked for some type of respawn delay awhile back, add incentives for stringing together landed kills, maybe a multiplier for every "ace" you achieve.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: SPKmes on July 19, 2016, 05:33:39 PM
just to add fuel.... perhaps just stop the ability to bail... if you want to bail a perfectly good plane you need to crash...now the bail option should still be available for planes that have received damage (pretty sure this is coadable since the game can tell when and who to award kills to)...it would suck to have to ride it down from 30000. also available if you do actually ditch in the water or land of course
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Lusche on July 19, 2016, 05:43:21 PM
Maybe removing the ability to take off at all might cure about any gameplay problem anyone could ever think about... :noid
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: The Fugitive on July 19, 2016, 05:45:08 PM
I asked for some type of respawn delay awhile back, add incentives for stringing together landed kills, maybe a multiplier for every "ace" you achieve.
The closer people get to the "magic" number of kills the more careful they become. What ends up happening in they run more than fight. Thats how it was in AW because you got a bonus for stringing together the 5 kills.
Add a time component, get the 5 kills in a reasonable time, like 15 minutes or something to force the player into more action.
just to add fuel.... perhaps just stop the ability to bail... if you want to bail a perfectly good plane you need to crash...now the bail option should still be available for planes that have received damage (pretty sure this is coadable since the game can tell when and who to award kills to)...it would suck to have to ride it down from 30000. also available if you do actually ditch in the water or land of course
Add a dive to a perfectly good set of buffs, a yank the stick once your speed is up, damage..... aka no wings and you bail. To coad the damage only to be done by bullets/cannon rounds.... now were talking. But what kind of coading nightmare is that?
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 06:13:59 PM
Guys, it is simple. If a player bails in visual range the closest enemy gets the victory.
Stop overthinking it.
When I chase buffs for 30 mins and they bail at 4K it ticks me off. Getting a kill would make the chase and effort expended worth it. Real life gave the kill to the guy with the film. So should it be here.
You bail in visual range the opponent gets a kill on you--or three if you're a buff string.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 19, 2016, 06:15:30 PM
Guys, it is simple. If a player bails in visual range the closest enemy gets the victory.
Stop overthinking it.
When I chase buffs for 30 mins and they bail at 4K it ticks me off. Getting a kill would make the chase and effort expended worth it. Real life gave the kill to the guy with the film. So should it be here.
You bail in visual range the opponent gets a kill on you--or three if you're a buff string.
dont forget you can just point the nose down and rip your wings off.
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vudak on July 19, 2016, 06:15:37 PM
Right now we have game play where the bomber guys fly with their hair on fire at 3-5k right into the action like madmen and the fighter guys fly around like a bunch of timid terrified wimps.
I know that limiting the number of aircraft a base can send off has been discussed before and rejected but IIRC the discussion was always centered on limiting "ALL" types of aircraft.
What if different sized bases could only sustain a certain number of bomber aircraft LOSSES per hour but infinite fighters could and die like usual?
I feel like that would encourage bombers to get back home which is a minor issue but more importantly would encourage escorts to actually try and keep them alive (and the only way to do that is by fighting).
Take it a step further and have scoring default to "attack" when ordinance is loaded, and make it so bases can only sustain so many bomber/attack losses per hour, however they can launch infinite fighters (which couldn't carry ord in this scenario).
So again, you could launch as many fighters as you wanted from a field, but if you wanted to launch bomber and attack sorties, you'd want to try and get those aircraft back safe and sound because landing them wouldn't count against you for the hour, but dying would. This would add an element of strategy to the gameplay for the guys who claim to like strategy, and it would encourage fighting because you'd want to defend your attack/bomber aircraft. Suicide/one way trips could still be effective and an option but now there would be a downside to them because of the very real possibility that your entire offensive stalls for a certain time if you lose too many bomber/attack aircraft.
Maybe even let supply goons to the field bring in more ord if a squad desperately wanted to suicide over and over - at least then it's coordinated and an accomplishment.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 06:25:42 PM
dont forget you can just point the nose down and rip your wings off.
semp
Award the proxy.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Guppy35 on July 19, 2016, 06:34:28 PM
Maps that correspond to numbers so that it's feasible to defend and react to raids of any kind.
Bailing after bombing means no points, no damage. For the bombing to cause damage you have to fight your way out or at least rtb if no one comes after you.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 06:41:34 PM
Maps that correspond to numbers so that it's feasible to defend and react to raids of any kind.
Bailing after bombing means no points, no damage. For the bombing to cause damage you have to fight your way out or at least rtb if no one comes after you.
Violator had a great proposal about maps awhile back. Scaling based on numbers, etc. This needs to happen. Badly.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: EagleDNY on July 19, 2016, 07:06:07 PM
Structured game models "force" players to fall in line or be penalized in some manner for lack of compliance. The creator of Aces High over the last 15 years appears to favor the open world model and not "force" his subscribers to fall in line. If they want to runaway from most fights not in their favor, that's up to them for their $14.95. Hitech does not seem disposed to expressing the will to penalize them for that.
The entire game is structured, with various elements designed to ensure game balance and an enjoyable experience for the subscribers - that is what keeps the game alive. We know that Hitech has not really addressed the bomb & bail, or a bunch of other issues that have repeatedly come up over the years. Frankly I always thought it was due to limits in the code base, but maybe he has other reasons as well.
I would submit that maybe the current subscription numbers are a reflection of that and that AH3 might be the time to make game balance improvements. It is always been a debate as to whether this was more of a game or more of a simulator - it has elements of both. If we want to stop some of the gamey elements like bomb & bail, then maybe we should stop rewarding them - how about you only earn perks by bringing a ride home? Add that change with needing perks to buy big bombs, or needing to spend perks to buy drones for that bomber box. With the number of times this issue comes up in the forums, it seems obvious that there is a fair amount of the player base that finds it annoying, and while we may not be able to eliminate it entirely I would submit any change to lessen it would be welcome.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 19, 2016, 07:27:41 PM
Perks are entirely useless to me.
You still have to hit the bailer in his score--and reward the guy who chased him.
Let's be real here. If a buff driver bails because he sees you then you caused it. You deserve the victory credit.
If the bailer is okay with that, fine. At least the defender gets something for his efforts. Warbirds did this and it was a good feature.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: caldera on July 19, 2016, 08:04:52 PM
The entire game is structured, with various elements designed to ensure game balance and an enjoyable experience for the subscribers - that is what keeps the game alive. We know that Hitech has not really addressed the bomb & bail, or a bunch of other issues that have repeatedly come up over the years. Frankly I always thought it was due to limits in the code base, but maybe he has other reasons as well.
I would submit that maybe the current subscription numbers are a reflection of that and that AH3 might be the time to make game balance improvements. It is always been a debate as to whether this was more of a game or more of a simulator - it has elements of both. If we want to stop some of the gamey elements like bomb & bail, then maybe we should stop rewarding them - how about you only earn perks by bringing a ride home? Add that change with needing perks to buy big bombs, or needing to spend perks to buy drones for that bomber box. With the number of times this issue comes up in the forums, it seems obvious that there is a fair amount of the player base that finds it annoying, and while we may not be able to eliminate it entirely I would submit any change to lessen it would be welcome.
So, someone who gets a bunch of kills in an obsolete ride but then gets ganged would get 0 perks, while someone skilless turd vulching in a 5 ENY ride and running home would get perks?
Giving bonuses for landing only encourages more timidity.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 19, 2016, 08:06:06 PM
I asked for some type of respawn delay awhile back, add incentives for stringing together landed kills, maybe a multiplier for every "ace" you achieve.
Adding a respawn timer to the MA would only result in people not playing and quitting the game. The only incentive it would add would be as an incentive to get people to quit.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 19, 2016, 08:12:06 PM
If the player is one of those bailer types, he's not playing for score. Because of that, having a scoring penalty to penalize the player will be ineffective and won't stop the player from bailing in his bombers once he sees a fighter pop up in icon range.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 19, 2016, 10:16:02 PM
akak just got it right finally. I bail out of a lot of planes if I see something else that is interesting. those who bomb and bail dont really care about score.
so the question still stands. how do you force people to play the way you think everybody should play?
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Guppy35 on July 19, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
akak just got it right finally. I bail out of a lot of planes if I see something else that is interesting. those who bomb and bail dont really care about score.
so the question still stands. how do you force people to play the way you think everybody should play?
semp
You can't. But you can do things to allow folks to respond to different styles of play and encourage actual interaction
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2016, 12:15:16 AM
Finally? I've known all along, I've been playing these games for far many more years than you have. But then I wasn't advocating punishing any player for anything, I was responding to this rather stupid post of yours.
Quote
so why shouldnt I bail my bombers if I feel like it, fighters bail out anytime they feel like it.
semp
Because for some reason you can't see the difference between a player bailing out of a bomber to avoid being shot down (i.e. combat) and a fighter breaking off because it was damaged in the attack. I was showing you how flawed your argument was.
Now, I fully expect you to still fail to see the difference and instead you'll try to deflect in some way.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: FESS67 on July 20, 2016, 03:40:59 AM
Nothing needs to happen badly. It needs to happen well. :p
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 20, 2016, 03:46:18 AM
its mostly the people, not the game. people know right from wrong. they know when theyre playing cheap. but people can reckon anything in their minds. the end validates the means to them. win that war no matter how. if that means bomb and bail and hurry to reup and do it all over again, thats what they do. they totally game the system. they dont care about the finer points of the game. their intent is ill and i dont know how to change these peoples intent, except to show them by beating them fairly or trying to beat them fairly. maybe they see the example and try to do the same. but then you see semp here and hes advocating these gamey tactics. so you know that people really just dont care if theyre killing the game and dont care about outplaying you. so i dont know what can be done. its highly disappointing. and to see the numbers being so low and knowing that so many of the few people that even play could care less about competing vs other players really sucks. my guess is there are way more of these type of players than players who want to compete. what other reason could there be for keeping the big maps in rotation after we had the vote to keep em or not? im sure these players wanted to keep these big maps so they could hide and avoid contact. and they hide even when they have twice the people. its pathetic.
one thing that could help, is good training for the new guys, so they dont fall into the ways that a lot of veteran players have manifested the game into. in my opinion the vets have had the most influence on this game and it is what it is now. both good and bad. one of the first things i read and learned is to take the advantage away from the other guy. that means being aggressive, smart and beating his bellybutton down. and doing it fair and square too, so that you get the satisfaction of a true win. in my opinion the game would be way better if they wanted to wrestle the advantage away from the other guy. because it takes aggression to do that. we need more aggressive and fair players in my opinion.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 20, 2016, 04:46:46 AM
If the player is one of those bailer types, he's not playing for score. Because of that, having a scoring penalty to penalize the player will be ineffective and won't stop the player from bailing in his bombers once he sees a fighter pop up in icon range.
I don't care if it doesn't stop him so long as I get awarded the victory credit since I am the cause of his bailing out.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Vraciu on July 20, 2016, 04:51:13 AM
akak just got it right finally. I bail out of a lot of planes if I see something else that is interesting. those who bomb and bail dont really care about score.
so the question still stands. how do you force people to play the way you think everybody should play?
semp
It isn't about forcing. It is about giving credit where due. A lot of us have climbed up to altitude and wasted a lot of time to chase buffs only to have them bail. This is incredibly frustrating and not a good aspect of the game. Award victory credit to the opponent.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: guncrasher on July 20, 2016, 12:32:44 PM
It isn't about forcing. It is about giving credit where due. A lot of us have climbed up to altitude and wasted a lot of time to chase buffs only to have them bail. This is incredibly frustrating and not a good aspect of the game. Award victory credit to the opponent.
i want credit when i damage a fighter and he rtb. i want my kill. but akak days no way.
semp
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 20, 2016, 12:39:53 PM
i want credit when i damage a fighter and he rtb. i want my kill. but akak days no way.
semp
You still don't understand the difference between a player that bails from his aircraft to avoid engaging in combat and a fighter that is forced to break off because of the damage they received while engaged in combat.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Zoney on July 20, 2016, 12:41:03 PM
You still don't understand the difference between a player that bails from his aircraft to avoid engaging in combat and a fighter that is forced to break off because of the damage they received while engaged in combat.
He does, he's just being obstinate.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 20, 2016, 01:05:52 PM
yep youre right. if you tell a contrarian that he's being a contrarian, they'll say, "no im not"
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: 68Raptor on July 20, 2016, 01:35:10 PM
I think semps point is, what's the difference if a bomber bails before combat or a fighter disengages after a single pass.. Both a "running" from the fight. Those that feel entitled to a kill, a name in lights or some sort of recognition for not running are failing to see the difference. Trying to separate the two is splitting some fine hairs.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: mikev on July 20, 2016, 01:46:45 PM
VOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOOOO I will add my 2 cents not that it means a lot. nobody plays this game the same way. it would be nice if we were all programmed robots and did things the same way we want everybody else to do. but its not going to happen. everybody is different and we have to work around what we like and dont like. as for me i dont get a lot of kills but i hate when i have a target in sight and ready for a kill then some mean player comes and picks me off .grrrrrrr lol. or Rud3boi and his sucker move that he kills me everytime. grrrrrrrr :bhead my point is you have so many different personalities playing some are going to upset you but not all .you just have to work around them some times . now i switched to B.I.S.H. not because of their so called tactics but because i wanted to see what it was like to with a different group and fight some of the rooks i use to fly with. as for this dirty bish theory they are doing the same things that people did when i flew rooks. there is no need to point fingers people are just playing the way they want to all with different goals in mind. im sure with all the different parameters this game allows there will be new and different tactics that we wont like coming. so i will just take a deep breath and hope i survive long enough to get a kill here and there.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Scca on July 20, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
bish had 49 people, knits had 45, rooks had 29 today saturday the 16th. rooks fighting both fairly heavily. this is whats happened so far: a rook found KK and his bunch noe to rook AAA, 20 mins later another bish does an noe at the AAA then bails. then a single bish porked radar at a base then bailed. 10 mins later KK and his bunch do a mass bish noe to this base and take it. you have numbers and youre hiding in NOE raids, bomb and bailing. and doing it against the least numbers. if this isnt bad for AH, i dont know what is.
You'd think these "If you don't make it easy for me to kill you you are destroying gameplay" BS posts would get old after awhile but evidently they don't.
Put on your big boy pants and go kill the NOE mission.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 22, 2016, 08:12:15 AM
You'd think these "If you don't make it easy for me to kill you you are destroying gameplay" BS posts would get old after awhile but evidently they don't.
Put on your big boy pants and go kill the NOE mission.
hey einstein, maybe you should read before you post. this isnt a make it easy for me to kill post. this is a stop hiding, you have 20 more people and youre double teaming, quit being a wuss, post. but, youre a known hider, talking trash from a field gun, so you would oppose anything that changes that. i cant believe you would say anything here, considering that everytime the bish have an equal number fight or even out numbered by 1 person you sure do make sure to whine about it. but youll sure do youre share of ganging then hiding, God forbid you play a fighting game and have to fight. no no no wouldnt want that.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Latrobe on July 22, 2016, 08:22:42 AM
hey einstein, maybe you should read before you post. this isnt a make it easy for me to kill post. this is a stop hiding, you have 20 more people and youre double teaming, quit being a wuss, post. but, youre a known hider, talking trash from a field gun, so you would oppose anything that changes that.
That's impossible! MrGeezer says it himself many many times. ONLY the BISH get doubled team by the dastardly Rook-Knight Alliance. Rooks and Knights can not be double teamed.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 22, 2016, 08:27:50 AM
That's impossible! MrGeezer says it himself many many times. ONLY the BISH get doubled team by the dastardly Rook-Knight Alliance. Rooks and Knights can not be double teamed.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: VuduVee on July 22, 2016, 10:06:36 AM
haha, this is great. right now at 10 AM central there are 6 rooks, 17 knits and 19 bish. take a wild guess at which team is getting dogpiled. and then take another guess at who is right in the middle of it, hiding in a gv.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Tumor on July 22, 2016, 02:12:55 PM
Is MrGeezer Hurless? I'm just guessing.... :rofl
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: Estes on July 22, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
hey einstein, maybe you should read before you post. this isnt a make it easy for me to kill post. this is a stop hiding, you have 20 more people and youre double teaming, quit being a wuss, post. but, youre a known hider, talking trash from a field gun, so you would oppose anything that changes that. i cant believe you would say anything here, considering that everytime the bish have an equal number fight or even out numbered by 1 person you sure do make sure to whine about it. but youll sure do youre share of ganging then hiding, God forbid you play a fighting game and have to fight. no no no wouldnt want that.
Read plenty before posting my response to a "how come you don't fly the way I want you to fly/play the way I want you to play post. Talking trash? From a field gun? Good lord, this poor guy is too phreeking dumb to debate with.
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: LCADolby on July 25, 2016, 05:35:05 AM
ROX :rolleyes:
Title: Re: youre playing a fighting game, stop hiding
Post by: JunkyII on July 25, 2016, 09:16:31 AM
Read plenty before posting my response to a "how come you don't fly the way I want you to fly/play the way I want you to play post. Talking trash? From a field gun? Good lord, this poor guy is too phreeking dumb to debate with.
It's hard to debate with you guys when the only arguments you bring to the table is
A) Look another "play the game the way I want you to play" thread......even though the OP is just tired of not having any combat in a Combat oriented game.
B) OH look another whine thread....when most of the guys who disagree with this type of request are the guys whining on country channel about people furballing/spawn camping/ whatever else they are doing except joining an NOE mission.