Post by: AAIK on August 23, 2018, 03:07:53 PM
Do you need a collective money injection from the community? Do you need a successful kickstarter/indigogo?
There has to be something we (the community) can do other then go around in circles and circles coming up with no real ideas.
ATM I cant honestly recommend this game to anyone because the action is just soo scarce when last I played.
You know your situation best! Tell us how we can really help! There has to be something...
Post by: Shuffler on August 23, 2018, 03:18:03 PM
No advertisement beats actual word-of-mouth.
Post by: Wiley on August 23, 2018, 03:23:42 PM
Wiley.
Post by: hitech on August 23, 2018, 03:32:01 PM
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Post by: Shuffler on August 23, 2018, 03:40:10 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Hopefully I will be back on this weekend. I have no friends so I will draw my enemies. :D
Post by: hgtonyvi on August 23, 2018, 03:53:21 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.AMERICAN HERO CHANNEL? That's the new military channel correct?
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Post by: toddbobe on August 23, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.GREAT NEWS!!! If there is anything I can do to help these new players coming in please consider me taking one giant step forward.
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Todd
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 23, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
Hopefully I will be back on this weekend. I have no friends so I will draw my enemies. :D
Heya Shuf, did you get your CH products hotas setup remapped/running yet?
If not would you like for me to send you my AH .jsm files?
I use a CH fighterstick, Pro throttle and a set of the first original CH rudder pedals (not the Pro rudder pedals)....i got these pedals in 1993 and have never had to do anything to them except buy a gameport-to-usb adapter
I never could get used to using my Pro rudder pedals or my thrustmaster rudder pedals or Satiek rudder pedals....
Let me know if I can help.... I can send them from my Windows 7 Ultimate or Windows 8.1 Pro.... I might possibly have a backup copy from where I had AH installed on my Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB version, but am not sure if I saved those files to my home server or not...... But I've been using the same mappings since win98se....
TC
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 23, 2018, 04:46:11 PM
AMERICAN HERO CHANNEL? That's the new military channel correct?
No that's the "AHC" channel
The History channel series picked up the "Military channel" and is now called "The History's Military channel"
Hope this helps
TC
Post by: perdue3 on August 23, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
No that's the "AHC" channel
The History channel series picked up the "Military channel" and is now called "The History's Military channel"
Hope this helps
TC
This is also incorrect. Military Channel used to be Discovery Wings and is therefore owned by Discovery. Military Channel became American Heroes Channel. The old H2 (formerly History International) is now Viceland. Military History Channel is A&E's competitor to AHC and was not known by any former names. Sadly, MHC is quite difficult to get. My provider charges an extra $30 for a package that includes it. Of all of these, Military History, Smithsonian, and AHC are the best for history buffs like us. Of the three, the most WWII can be found on AHC.
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 23, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
I miss the old "Wings" channel
But I do get AHC, History's Military channel and 2 or 3 different Smithsonian channels....Love them all and Discovery's group of channels has some decent programs at times
As far as incorrect or correct, not sure what was incorrect in my previous post.... I didn't think I needed to post the entire history of when and where all the channels/providers and Channel name changes had taken place..... My apologies
Post by: Zimme83 on August 23, 2018, 05:52:37 PM
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
That is the problem, most new players will find an almost empty arena and thus they quickly move on to another game.. But hopefully it can attract some players at least.
Post by: Medic18 on August 23, 2018, 05:59:59 PM
Post by: perdue3 on August 23, 2018, 06:10:21 PM
I was just trying to show them as how they show up in the guide on my service
I miss the old "Wings" channel
But I do get AHC, History's Military channel and 2 or 3 different Smithsonian channels....Love them all and Discovery's group of channels has some decent programs at times
As far as incorrect or correct, not sure what was incorrect in my previous post.... I didn't think I needed to post the entire history of when and where all the channels/providers and Channel name changes had taken place..... My apologies
I did not mean to offend. I hate A&E and History Channel, so I wanted to make sure they were not getting credit for AHC, lol. :cheers:
Post by: Max on August 23, 2018, 06:32:18 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Thanks for sharing that. Let the community know when the ads launch so we'll be ready to assist with questions from new players.
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 23, 2018, 06:44:53 PM
I did not mean to offend. I hate A&E and History Channel, so I wanted to make sure they were not getting credit for AHC, lol. :cheers:
No worries brother, it's all good
Looking at my DVR right now I have for the following channels:
History's Military Channel - 10 episodes of "Dogfights" and 2 episodes of "Dogfights of the Future" (DF's shows of the P-47 Thunderbolt, Taffy 3 fights the Japanese fleet, Tuskegee Airmen, etc... / DF of the F shows are new jet age Fighters stuff like F22, F-35 etc..)
Smithsonian Channel - 4 episodes of "Air Warriors" (shows of F16 falcon, AC-130 close air support, F4 phantom, etc )
AHC - WWII in color, WWII war in the pacific, different WWII battle engagements like the Bulge, etc....
Just a little sampling of what I've been seeing/recording on the different channels
Not sure if this is helpful or not, just putting it in my post to show what I'm getting/recording
Cheers
TC
Post by: scott66 on August 23, 2018, 06:54:00 PM
Hopefully I will be back on this weekend. I have no friends so I will draw my enemies. :Dshuffy is my friend! :aok
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 23, 2018, 07:43:31 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
I can't tell you how many times people have said they found the game from the military commercials. I think TV marketing is the best option. Especially if you could get on a mainstream channel like fox or FX.
I also agree with the match play arena.
A bigger dev or marketing team for videos wouldn't hurt.
Post by: TheBug on August 23, 2018, 07:50:40 PM
Post by: AKKuya on August 23, 2018, 08:14:48 PM
2) Volunteers
3) Selection of a Marketing Plan(s)
4) Approval of HiTech
I have ideas. Just no money. I know there would be plenty of volunteers. Whether HiTech approved of them, only when actual concrete action would be possible.
Post by: Lazerr on August 23, 2018, 09:02:02 PM
I can't tell you how many times people have said they found the game from the military commercials. I think TV marketing is the best option. Especially if you could get on a mainstream channel like fox or FX.
I also agree with the match play arena.
A bigger dev or marketing team for videos wouldn't hurt.
Sooner than later.. your typical cable and satellite TV will be extinct
Post by: Shuffler on August 23, 2018, 10:08:08 PM
Heya Shuf, did you get your CH products hotas setup remapped/running yet?
If not would you like for me to send you my AH .jsm files?
I use a CH fighterstick, Pro throttle and a set of the first original CH rudder pedals (not the Pro rudder pedals)....i got these pedals in 1993 and have never had to do anything to them except buy a gameport-to-usb adapter
I never could get used to using my Pro rudder pedals or my thrustmaster rudder pedals or Satiek rudder pedals....
Let me know if I can help.... I can send them from my Windows 7 Ultimate or Windows 8.1 Pro.... I might possibly have a backup copy from where I had AH installed on my Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB version, but am not sure if I saved those files to my home server or not...... But I've been using the same mappings since win98se....
TC
I would not turn down a setup as it will be hard to adjust to different buttons. One may suit my ugly flying better than another. Thanks!!
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 24, 2018, 01:24:28 PM
Sooner than later.. your typical cable and satellite TV will be extinct
Maybe. I'd still give it a few years.
But it's really the best place to put the product right in people's faces with an audio and visual perception. Many might go on their phones and look up the website right there.
Marketing updates on the steam website would also go a long way.
I just find online marketing for games like this is very hard to attract a wide range of people.
Especially when the front website doesn't get updated with cool pics or videos from in game players on a regular basis.
Radio might work alright.
Post by: morfiend on August 24, 2018, 02:41:27 PM
Maybe. I'd still give it a few years.
But it's really the best place to put the product right in people's faces with an audio and visual perception. Many might go on their phones and look up the website right there.
Marketing updates on the steam website would also go a long way.
I just find online marketing for games like this is very hard to attract a wide range of people.
Especially when the front website doesn't get updated with cool pics or videos from in game players on a regular basis.
Radio might work alright.
Actually I would get the Kardashians to post it on snapchat,instagram,twitter and FB......they have about a BILLION followers.....TV is so 1990's..... :old:
Say what you will but they know how to market stuff, not my cup of tea but it's a fact.
:salute
Post by: Shuffler on August 24, 2018, 04:31:56 PM
Actually I would get the Kardashians to post it on snapchat,instagram,twitter and FB......they have about a BILLION followers.....TV is so 1990's..... :old:
Say what you will but they know how to market stuff, not my cup of tea but it's a fact.
:salute
Old lady kardashian just sold her daughters and when old enough they sell themselves. Bad to associate with such cheap trash.
Post by: TheBug on August 24, 2018, 04:47:59 PM
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 24, 2018, 09:26:16 PM
I would not turn down a setup as it will be hard to adjust to different buttons. One may suit my ugly flying better than another. Thanks!!
check your email and also check your PM's here on the boards
come fly FSO with us if you get it set up in time ( before 11 PM EDT )
hope it works for ya, brother!
<S>
TC
Post by: lunatic1 on August 25, 2018, 10:32:40 AM
HT, what will it take for you to catch up with the competition, get your game advertised and known around the net and fill the arenas again?
Do you need a collective money injection from the community? Do you need a successful kickstarter/indigogo?
There has to be something we (the community) can do other then go around in circles and circles coming up with no real ideas.
ATM I cant honestly recommend this game to anyone because the action is just soo scarce when last I played.
You know your situation best! Tell us how we can really help! There has to be something...
YOU can't recommend this game to anyone because YOU can't find a fight.
well let me ask you this.
what time do you play?
when do you play/how often do you play?
do you just hang at a base and wait for them to come to you?
or do you fly to a base and attack?
do HiTeck a favor and recommend this came to your friends and others, let them decide if they want to play or not.
this game is like a woman when its her time of the month-it will have a light count and then it will have a heavy count.
Post by: lunatic1 on August 25, 2018, 10:40:05 AM
sweetheartbags is what have killed this game. And if you take offense to the term.......then you are what's killed it.^^^<<<----just added this to my list of what people are saying what is killing this game.
Post by: zack1234 on August 26, 2018, 03:20:30 AM
The police were very understanding but I was fined £4.52 for disturbing the peace
Post by: nrshida on August 26, 2018, 11:47:18 AM
I went to the local shops and told everyone I met :old:
The police were very understanding but I was fined £4.52 for disturbing the peace
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8103/crazy5.gif)
Post by: zack1234 on August 27, 2018, 03:43:41 AM
Post by: hgtonyvi on August 27, 2018, 01:22:05 PM
Post by: nrshida on August 28, 2018, 06:13:36 AM
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
I'm curious how you think a populated MPA would help with increasing general player numbers, is it to do with the proposed competitions?
Post by: hitech on August 28, 2018, 08:29:37 AM
I'm curious how you think a populated MPA would help with increasing general player numbers, is it to do with the proposed competitions?
It removes the mind set that AH not free.
HiTech
Post by: AKKuya on August 28, 2018, 10:57:19 AM
The ideal marketing and recruiting of new players require a physical place to showcase the fun and action of the game. This should be done in a high traffic area of walking potential candidates like a busy shopping mall. A very small retail space would be required.
The lowest cost location would be the inner hallway booth stations. From there, larger spaces could be utilized after initial rapid growth of player base resulted.
The best way for this to be attained would be through the crowd funding campaigns online.
List of things needed :
1) Rent space
2) Hardware (gaming system, chair, and internet connection)
3) Literature of Aces High and promotional materials
4) Volunteers to staff the booth/retail space
Selection of places should be central to multiple Aces High players in the near vicinity.
I would hazard a guess to about $5000 for this booth location. 10 times that for a small retail space.
Post by: AAIK on August 28, 2018, 11:59:37 AM
Post by: BuckShot on August 28, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
Post by: Lusche on August 28, 2018, 12:49:37 PM
Post by: Wiley on August 28, 2018, 12:52:56 PM
Wiley.
Post by: TheBug on August 28, 2018, 02:51:17 PM
Post by: BuckShot on August 28, 2018, 03:25:48 PM
Free: MA arena access only, <25 eny planes only, no perk earning, no perk planes, no score recording, no fso, no ava or events, no film recording, no squad joining, only default skins, only 500 lb bombs and less,
Paid: what we have now
Post by: BowHTR on August 28, 2018, 03:33:46 PM
Idea
Free: MA arena access only, <25 eny planes only, no perk earning, no perk planes, no score recording, no fso, no ava or events, no film recording, no squad joining, only default skins, only 500 lb bombs and less,
Paid: what we have now
I think you have that backwards.
Post by: Alpo on August 28, 2018, 03:46:27 PM
this game is like a woman when its her time of the month-it will have a light count and then it will have a heavy count.
:O
:rofl
:bolt:
Post by: morfiend on August 28, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Old lady kardashian just sold her daughters and when old enough they sell themselves. Bad to associate with such cheap trash.
You know I was only half kidding right?
My point was that today it’s all about social media,which format I don’t know as I don’t follow it but I do know many have got their brand out with the use of this media and I was just pointing out how the Caashdancions made theirs.
TV and Radio are not going away,they just are being moved aside as people shift to a new form of information.They simply don’t have the captive audience like they did before the internet and smart phones,tablets etc.
:salute
Post by: BuckShot on August 28, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
I think you have that backwards.
Thanks. I meant > 25
Post by: Traveler on August 29, 2018, 10:08:43 AM
Post by: Shuffler on August 29, 2018, 10:10:49 AM
You know I was only half kidding right?
My point was that today it’s all about social media,which format I don’t know as I don’t follow it but I do know many have got their brand out with the use of this media and I was just pointing out how the Caashdancions made theirs.
TV and Radio are not going away,they just are being moved aside as people shift to a new form of information.They simply don’t have the captive audience like they did before the internet and smart phones,tablets etc.
:salute
Definitely no attack on you. You stand high on my list. Of course that is my list and you know me. I would not put that on a job application if I were you. :D
Post by: bustr on August 29, 2018, 12:57:46 PM
Open Melee - Subscription Service
Axis VS Allied - Subscription Service
World War I - Free to Play
Match Play - Free to Play
Steal the Sheep - Free to Play
Training Arena - Free Training Center for Everyone
Steam was supposed to be social media exposure. It garnered too many negative reviews which is hard to overcome once it happens. If it had been one or two with many good reviews then the social media Lemming effect of predisposition would not have started up. I'm still suspicious if some amount of the negative reviews were not on purpose to try and sink Hitech.
FaceBook, all the under 40 generation left long ago and I don't see a strong recent line of guest postings at the HTC page. I'm wondering if Hitech's test on the "Hero" channel isn't the one owned by ABS-CBN Digital Media who provides content on anime, Japanese pop culture and eGames. eGames is what the under 40 generation is interested in. As for the 40 and over crowd, FaceBook adds, Air Shows, Gun Shows, Military Memorabilia Shows, Car Shows, click bait at AARP......... :old:
We are top heavy with 40 and older players and there is still room to attract that demographic. Time is not on the side of that group though, so the game has to be advertised on social media where the under 40's go for their entertainment, online purchases, and News, just like WT covered all of that initially. Steam may have not helped as much as it potentially "could" have. Too bad they won't let you start over and clean the reviews slate.
Post by: morfiend on August 29, 2018, 01:47:29 PM
Definitely no attack on you. You stand high on my list. Of course that is my list and you know me. I would not put that on a job application if I were you. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I know it wasnt an attack and I've been retired for so long I dont know how to fill out a job application anymore..... :old: That said if you happen to have a job where I can sit around and do nothing all day,I'm your man.... :devil
:salute
PS: my original point is still valid.
Post by: gpcustom on August 30, 2018, 05:44:17 AM
HT, what will it take for you to catch up with the competition, get your game advertised and known around the net and fill the arenas again?Actually when I first started playing the game long before I even new there was a forum the game was extremely popular with hundreds of players on each side. two main arenas and TV coverage :airplane:
Do you need a collective money injection from the community? Do you need a successful kickstarter/indigogo?
There has to be something we (the community) can do other then go around in circles and circles coming up with no real ideas.
ATM I cant honestly recommend this game to anyone because the action is just soo scarce when last I played.
You know your situation best! Tell us how we can really help! There has to be something...
It was an authentic game. If it didn't exist in WWII it didn't exist here. Lots of stuff to blow up regardless of vehicle choices(ground and air). Some will argue that it took a dive when they made things tough to access such as strats(some players only enjoyed killing strats and left). The change made one side of the isle very happy to eliminate the milk runs. I must admit there was an exodus of players after that. Some say its been going down hill for a long time and its just too hard to learn for new players and thats another reason the base has reduced. Personally I just missed not having the trains everywhere there was an accessible strat(what a blast) :joystick:
Either way its always a conversation with no simple solution. For me I would go back in time to a setting when the base was vast and diverse. Make available stuff to blow up for air and ground folks just trying to gather a few perks(milk runs for some) but thats just one of many opinions and oh yeah, run a few of those old commercials. :old:
Post by: Shuffler on August 30, 2018, 08:46:33 AM
Post by: Mister Fork on August 30, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
I never saw a commercial on TV....and why would you cause you were probably napping in your lazyboy with the crossword puzzle in your lap. :neener:
Post by: morfiend on August 30, 2018, 01:06:15 PM
...and why would you cause you were probably napping in your lazyboy with the crossword puzzle in your lap. :neener:
Hey now that's my job.
:salute
Post by: bangsbox on August 30, 2018, 01:20:51 PM
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 30, 2018, 01:56:08 PM
Days of internet cafes in the west are over. They are all but completely closed in these parts.
There are a large number of Internet cafes in various Los Angeles communities.
Post by: Butcher on September 01, 2018, 11:29:51 AM
Post by: bangsbox on September 04, 2018, 10:53:20 AM
I am still lurking, trying to find a reason to come back.
because I miss you :salute
Post by: bustr on September 04, 2018, 01:45:48 PM
Our capture the flag game appeals to people who like working with others to achieve goals as a team while mitigating personal risk by being part of a group. Coexisting with that in the same arena are solo players who like to take risks to achieve personal goals and glory. One of the most popular games right now for iGen and even millennials is Fortnite. It has two separate game arenas. The first appeals to people who like working with others to achieve goals as a team while mitigating personal risk by being part of a group. The second for solo players who like to take risks to achieve personal goals and glory.
This is the emotional attraction core of group gaming online when you get rid of all the bells, whistles, and game community centrist ideology and mythology. Some games successfully support both types of player in one arena, others have two separated offerings. The first type is the herd nature of people and Fortnite is filled with them getting their needs fulfilled. While the second type will always show up where the herd is, then want something more to their liking which Fortnite gave them a KOTH arena.
Is it really a catching up with the competition or, communicating that Aces High provides a venue for both types of players? Fortnite obviously does not have the parents and grandparents of the iGen and millennials building forts and fragging husks as team mates, Aces High has that in it's own unique mixed generations way. Most nights I can hear at least two of the three generations on VOX. If new perspective players can get as far as the tower inside the MA, look around and listen for 10 minutes, then leave. What is really not attractive to them? The action or hearing gramps all night on VOX?
Who is really attracted to Aces High? Urban millennial hipsters and iGen children of middle class parents or blue collar demographics like tow truck company owners with kids, or truckers with a PC, or active and retired military? Over the years I've found many of our players worked for roofing, carpentry, and plumbing companies. One was a butcher for COSTCO, one a quickie mart manager, some basic IT workers, policemen, EMT, farmers and even a long haul trucker in Australia. I ran across a few college students and even one working on his Phd specifically about the Russo-Japanese War at Oxford. And the cadre of real world civilian and retired military pilots who very rarely mention that to anyone.
My impression of Steam is it caters to millennial hipsters and iGen children of middle class parents in a generalized way. Many of our competition lean in that direction and their interfaces appear to support that impression of who they are primarily trying to attract. Even if Hitech did all that keeping up with the Kardashians eye candy and function bling thing, the same demographic that leaves after 10 minutes would still leave after 10 minutes listening to VOX.
Some nights you could get the impression from VOX, Aces High is only subscribed to by 40ish to 50ish citizens of Texas and a few surrounding states just listening to the loudest conversations.
Post by: AAIK on September 04, 2018, 04:18:40 PM
There are a large number of Internet cafes in various Los Angeles communities.
They do exist, but not as they once were and they are on the constant decline. If anyone wants to read the net they just load up their smartphone. The only surviving internet cafes I have seen in this area are run by Chinese people/gamers and a bunch of former-internet-cafes who are basically call and money transfer shops now. Its like the decline of generic LANs/LAN parties: Everyone has decent net these days compared to when we all had 56k modems so there is little point in getting together to play/share files.
Post by: nrshida on September 04, 2018, 09:29:08 PM
Our capture the flag game appeals to people who like working with others to achieve goals as a team while mitigating personal risk by being part of a group. Coexisting with that in the same arena are solo players who like to take risks to achieve personal goals and glory.
Apart from the last word, which is your typical missing the point while being condescending at the same time, I agree this is a sound analysis of the actual game balance / dynamic of Aces High. Where our views differ, I suspect, is you think the solution lies in separating the two 'groups' as you perceive them (I perceive a spectrum, but let's go with your split). I begin to suspect your MA map-making goal might have been to isollate the ACM-sharks from the CTF - reading between the lines (which is necessary for obvious reasons).
When Aces High had a nice gameplay flow for everyone, was when the maps have a large and central area (3 countries present) and sufficient periphery where both game activities could coexist in the same arena. The map we had earlier today has it to a small extent with its Tank Town. There was a better AH2 map with the large central Tank Town. There were many GV bases and any capture of those invited a lot of mixed action. I'm not sure, but i think there were no 88-mm there. I can't remember its name. The water was a vital and useful feature - a soft boundary.
This sort of terrain made for a nice blend of gameplay, a graduated scale of greys from black to white which also tolerated the 24-hour flux of numbers very well. Even this morning there was some great dogfighting with 3-7 players while the other 6-20 base-capture machine players coexisted. At one point there was an excellent mixture of both when one of the airbases was captured.
Separating to ACM-sharks into their own separate tank will demonstrably not work and you don't know why. It's not because they want to predate on the weaker players in an unfair way as you continually assume, it's because 30-45 minutes of Match Play or furballing in a private arena gives you 5 hours-worth of 'AH fix' in the MA environment, so you log and do something else.
For the good of the game it's better to have a slow burn of risk reward and ENCOURAGE ALL STYLES OF PLAY IN THE SAME ARENA (or several of those as we used to have). Get rid of either style of gameplay and the game has big problems. Get rid of the capture the flag players and you lose the 24-7 MMOG, and get rid of the ACM-sharks and you end up with an esoteric & unapproachable grinding machine from the perspective of new players. Which is essentially what we have now for at least the 1/3rd of the 24-7 MMOG I get to play in.
Post by: bustr on September 04, 2018, 10:55:43 PM
If players are coming from Steam and only staying 10 minutes, that is long enough listening on VOX to not want to play this game with their fathers and grandfathers. We don't cater to millennial hipsters and iGen's who want a Fortnite environment without grandpa on VOX talking in Texan or bubba. We have a few eclectics like yourself Nirshida and you are an exception 9 years after the collapse in 2009. Today, we have two generations, iGen and millennial that don't equate doing fun and exciting things with old or bubba sounding people. Predominately that is what you hear in the MA casually listening in the tower. A bunch of older guys having older guy fun with a lot of them speaking bubba. Sometimes it sounds like a truck stop outside of Tulsa Oaklahoma. Tonight's MA free perk plane experiment was a blast but, this game cannot be changed to free everything all the time on the hopes it will attract a younger short attention span demographic. Honestly free everything would become boring 262's are us, the side switch part every 30 minutes, maybe, the 125ft minimum radar yes.
Most of the people paying to play this game are older and speak bubba. So how do you reach iGen, Millennial, and baby boomer bubbas if the hipsters and Fortnite addicts can't stand listening to us on VOX and don't want to play games with their parents? We are not going away and if you could get rid of us, the doors would close in Keller Texas. You need to understand that 900lb gorilla to solve bringing in new subscriptions.
Post by: nrshida on September 05, 2018, 03:44:52 AM
We have a few eclectics like yourself Nirshida and you are an exception 9 years after the collapse in 2009.
Not sure if just been insulted :D
Today, we have two generations, iGen and millennial that don't equate doing fun and exciting things with old or bubba sounding people. Predominately that is what you hear in the MA casually listening in the tower. A bunch of older guys having older guy fun with a lot of them speaking bubba.
It's a very valid point you make. I am not American and do not discern the subtlety so much. Then if this is so, the game is utterly doomed and it is better experientially for those left to stop medling with gameplay and perhaps increase the subscription so it lasts a bit longer.
We are not going away
But you are. Red Queen principal.
Let's take JoBravo as a data point. I don't know if he's a iGen or a millennial or a hipster, I tend to categarize less and take people as I find them. A decent chap as I see him. I've been flying with him a bit (same Timezone) and he's in my WhatsApp list of AH players. Mad about flying, mad-skills when it comes to learning. Hoping I'm not speaking out of school but I can tell you in the last two weeks he's also downloaded and tried a few other sims because of lack of fighter action. He's also been mercilessly roasted on at least two screenshots I've seen by your bubba-speaking gorillas simply because he out-flew them. This bothered him. He is - after all - just playing the game. This is the worst bit I perceive, your Bubbas DO NOT WANT NEW PLAYERS.
The forum is now replete with bubbas threatening to leave the game because they don't like changes (any changes it seems) as HTC tries to make the game attractive to a new influx. Look at this forum. No more ACM threads, no more serious propositions about new planes, no philosophy beyond the prevailing one that the game is unhealthy and dying. But don't dare change it, I like it this way. If I sniffed this with a $15 subscription I'd look elsewhere too. It smells like death, let's not mince words.
I'm in the innovation area by education and trade. HTC has existed in a conservative domain for a long time but this is now over and innovation - something new - is the only way out of this shrinking pool (if indeed HTC even want to do it).
I'd even suggest at this stage a splintering of the game. Build on AH's excellent flight model, which is right in that sweet spot of realism / OCD authenticity (like DCS) and either start right now on Aces High 4 or make a simpler splinter, smaller game like a HTC version of MiG Alley or a Reno Air Race offshoot or a modify your own fighter in a Reno Air Combat league fight-for-prizes thing or anything which can be ideated to hook new players into the HTC world / flight model. It is - without exageration - an asset. Explore different payment models too. Concurrently I'd run the AH3 MA, or even roll back the gameplay to AH2 to try and pull some of the old players back to fill the gap and remove the development load. Aces High Classic. At least Nuget contributed an evocative name.
Like I say, HTC might even be considering an exit strategy themselves at this point. Some of those (quick and dirty dashed out) ideas wouldn't be much work than new arenas and some repackaging. I even heard once they had a Sabre and MiG already modelled but there might not be the desire to try.
If there is then they need some new people / ideas. Get Lusche involved, get Ack-Ack involved (if his contract allows), consult with a UX designer etc... I'd even help ideate although I already did my limit of free consultancy work for HTC :)
Post by: nrshida on September 05, 2018, 03:50:28 AM
Post by: nugetx on September 05, 2018, 05:48:04 AM
Quote
So how do you reach iGen, Millennial, and baby boomer bubbas if the hipsters and Fortnite addicts can't stand listening to us on VOX and don't want to play games with their parents? We are not going away and if you could get rid of us, the doors would close in Keller Texas. You need to understand that 900lb gorilla to solve bringing in new subscriptions.
Bustr it's not as much about the new demographic but about the old demographic.
Instead of trying to catering to fortnite players, bring back old AH so old timers will come back - the game changed so much since AH 1, that players that were here playing AH 1, don't want to play 'AH the gv war'.
Post by: Litjan on September 05, 2018, 10:19:46 AM
Why am I back now? Well, the advent of VR is certainly the biggest reason. It´s just very cool to fly and fight in VR. The updated graphics engine is reason #2. The third one is me reaching an age where I look back in melancholy to things I did when I was young (like play Aces High!) and unlike some other things (cough) I can still do this and compete! It doesn´t require crazy reflexes and the gameplay feels mature and sophisticated. It rewards experience and smart thinking. I like that at my age.
People get tired of games eventually, especially younger ones that move with their peer groups. Playing Battlefield for a while, then World of Tanks, finally Fortnight - the next craze will surely come!
Aces High is different and a way of living for a lot of people, there are names you see in the arena EVERY DAY for hours and hours! I bet a lot of the players are retired, having nothing else to do and it keeps them mentally and socially engaged! In a way this is like my fitness center during the mornings - average age is 60+, but the folks love to be there for the company, having a sense of purpose and something to do.
So what does HT want to do? Keep catering to the old folks? I think this is not viable, because unlike the fitness club (where old timers are driven by their aching bodies and the desire to stay healtyh), there is little infusion of "new old people" here. The people now playing got introduced to Aces High when they were still young and the game was competitive with its contemporary competition. People at that age NOW are used to "modern" games - quickly rewarding, easy to learn, casual and with a strong "carrot" system that makes them yearn for the next level.
So here we are - a bunch of old-timers slowly fading away. We don´t like change, we glorify the "past" (did you see that thread with screenshots of AH2 and people raving how those were the good old times?), we are getting stubborn and inflexible. The target group for replenishing (or even growing!) the population is "young old people", maybe in their 30s. They need to have an affinity to flying (no one plays this game JUST for the GV game, its just too bad for that), history, need to be frustration tolerant, willing to learn an outdated UI, go without tailored instruction or a set purpose and be able and willing to invest time and money into Aces High.
I work as a captain for an airline, flying A320s. I make it a point to mention (without getting on their nerves, I hope) Aces High and how much fun it is to me to all of my first officers, young men in their 30s. Some ask some questions, but when I mention the requirements (hardware) and payment model, their eyes glaze over.
We are approaching the level of players where this game will just implode, going below the critical mass. Already it is not playable during european daytime, with numbers <50 (and only 20 of them in the air) most of the time. I can fly bombers unopposed offline just fine as well, thank you.
In my opinion, its do or die for HT. We heard a lot of good and also bad ideas in this thread already, but in my opinion he needs to look at the contemporary gaming market and what makes persistant games successful or not. Payment model, ease of access, in-game reward system and hardware requirements is where "we" are totally lacking behind the competition, in my opinion.
Cheers, Litjan
Post by: Shuffler on September 05, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Also, finally a productive topic / discussion. Even I managed to stay on topic and not get too personal. Skuzzy must shed a tear when he reads this :rofl
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 05, 2018, 10:19:33 PM
Post by: nrshida on September 06, 2018, 12:20:30 AM
JOBRAVO :aok I love that GUY! I call him the MALTESE LEACH
Maltese Falcon. :)
Post by: ccvi on September 06, 2018, 01:32:19 AM
We are approaching the level of players where this game will just implode, going below the critical mass. Already it is not playable during european daytime, with numbers <50 (and only 20 of them in the air) most of the time.
Unlikely to change. If any kind of advertisements are run they are targeted at the US market only. Even relatively simple suggestions to provide instructions for localized versions of keyboards to ease access for players with anything but 101-key Us-layout were explicitly rejected.
US afternoon is EU prime time, but attracting squeekers doesn't really work either. It simply isn't the kind of game for young people.
In this time zone, we're doomed.
Post by: Litjan on September 06, 2018, 05:38:50 AM
Unlikely to change. If any kind of advertisements are run they are targeted at the US market only. Even relatively simple suggestions to provide instructions for localized versions of keyboards to ease access for players with anything but 101-key Us-layout were explicitly rejected.
US afternoon is EU prime time, but attracting squeekers doesn't really work either. It simply isn't the kind of game for young people.
In this time zone, we're doomed.
Alright, I guess we need to shift our playing time to the time after midnight, then. Hit the sack at 6 pm, sleep 8 hours, get up quietly, play until 7 am, then off to work! ;)
Litjan
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 06, 2018, 12:35:00 PM
Maltese Falcon. :)Thought of that one....Jo is harder to shake. You can hide from a Falcon :x
Post by: nrshida on September 06, 2018, 01:03:03 PM
Thought of that one....Jo is harder to shake. You can hide from a Falcon :x
I'll do some 1-on-1s with you bro, see if I can raise your game for you :banana:
Post by: Chewie on September 11, 2018, 02:04:29 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on September 11, 2018, 02:22:11 PM
Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on a Friday night (been about 10 years for 900 on a Friday night, can't get in)
so, you'll come back if they get more people to play but wont come back to show higher numbers that will more than likely get more people to play?
sweet logic
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Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
^^^^^^^ What he said.
Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on a Friday night (been about 10 years for 900 on a Friday night, can't get in). :x Maybe HT can do a one time sale to all the email address he has and say hey, come on back for 2 weeks free and get say 4 weeks free with the advertisement he is thinking. Maybe drop the fee to flat 10 bucks might help too. Hope it works. Bish forever. Brewster buffalo with the firepower of a P-47N-THATS THE TICKET. :aok
They can't do that. The last email campaign got them labeled as spam by numerous providers.
Post by: Lusche on September 11, 2018, 03:36:58 PM
so, you'll come back if they get more people to play but wont come back to show higher numbers that will more than likely get more people to play?
sweet logic
It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up? ;)
If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment.
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 04:21:59 PM
It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up? ;)
If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment.
They'll rise by one. :old:
Post by: Ciaphas on September 11, 2018, 05:58:11 PM
It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up?
If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment.
I've read a dozen or so posts about people saying that they will not be back till the numbers are up.
this is counter productive, had they nost left there would be 12 or so more people playing. that is sometimes the entire pipilation of a country.
so yes, the "I'll come back when numbers are up!" logic is highly flawed.
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Post by: Lusche on September 11, 2018, 06:25:58 PM
this is counter productive, had they nost left there would be 12 or so more people playing. that is sometimes the entire pipilation of a country.
AH still has well over thousand players on the battlegrounds each day. You would not even notice 12 more or less, because they are not on 24/7. Even a group of twelve (re)joinign in unison would not create any kind of turnaround.
I played regularly until November 15. The numbers went way down in the years before. I left, and the continued to fall. I rejoined for 1-3 tours repeatedly. It didn't matter, the numbers didn't care for neither my presence nor my absence. It had no influence. Me, or any other player rejoining makes no difference.
But for me, the combat environment was getting worse and worse.
I can not make decisions for others. I only have control over myself. All I can do is to make the decision for myself: Is it worth to paying 15$ per tour?
so yes, the "I'll come back when numbers are up!" logic is highly flawed.
From the individual standpoint: Absolutely not, because it doesn't matter if I am back or not. My presence changes nothing in the big picture.
And by the way, getting the old AH vets can only be of secondary importance. The main thing AH needs is acquiring new players.
Post by: CptTrips on September 11, 2018, 06:29:49 PM
I personally have moved on to other gaming mostly, but I assure you, there is no other past game company I bother to periodically go back to their forum to check how things are going and to silently root for them. I’ve opened/re-opened many AH accounts over the years, but of course can never recapture the same experience as I once had. That doesn’t really mean anything. Hitech will be the first to tell you that it is perfectly natural for most players to have a life cycle and eventually burn out and move on. There are always a percentage of hardcore lifers, but there is also a perfectly natural player attrition rate. You just hope your player acquisition rate, plus hard core lifer retention, exceeds your attrition rate.
So even though I am not currently active in the game, I have watched it closely over the last 17 years. I hope that will justify me offering an opinion that is both informed by experience, yet because I am not currently one of the obsessed, benefits from some objectivity.
I can honestly say, without a doubt in my mind, that Hitech and the HTC team has reached the pinnacle of their genre. Aces High III is the finest massively-multi-player hi-fidelity WWII aerial combat based game ever produced.
Period. Full Stop.
Sadly, in 2018, that might be like saying you are the World’s premier precision buggy-whip manufacturer.
I believe that the majority of players AH had at it’s peak, were probably not hardcore, dedicated, WWII air combat enthusiasts. I believe the majority simply wanted to play and with and against other online players and engage in combat of any kind. At that time, AH, and Warbirds before that, and AW before that, were the industry standard model for online combat (assuming you didn’t want to prance around in tights and sprinkle pixie dust in Lord of the Elves or something.)
But the majority of these players probably weren’t WWII aircraft fanatics. But they’d fly them. Because AH was the best online combat game going. When other models of combat games started appearing, they started evaporating off. Eventually you are left with a dedicated hard core of WWII air combat addicts. But that is a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche.
Hitech has made design choices I agree with, and some that made me want to pull my eyeballs out. But I don’t think anything they have done has caused these changes in the marketplace. You can argue about radars and this or that all day, but I don’t think any of that is the cause or the solution.
I accept that the Great Recession was the proximate cause of the beginning player exodus, but I think you would have probably gotten to the same place eventually anyway.
How many random internet gamers out there even own a joystick you think? HOTAS? Rudder peddals?
How many players that are dedicated to hardcore hi-fidelity WWII air combat do you think are still out there that haven’t already heard of and tried AH? I’d wager that the vast majority of that demographic has already had AH on their hard-drive at one time. I can’t imagine there is still a vast untapped pool.
I honestly can not think of any possible set of occurrences that would fundamentally alter the course of internet gaming evolution. I can not conceive of any scenario where vast swaths of players are going to drop Battlefield V and WOT and sign up to be baby seals in AH; and no possible training program or newbie arena is going to make that happen.
You have niche of a niche of a niche boutique product. It achieved a historically anomalous high player count at a time when more and more players wanted online combat, but before other competitors had “come online”. I think that was a unique point in time that can not be recreated.
What you can do now is ensure that you do gather in 100% of the kind of player who would fit your niche profile that are available. You might find a few new ones more from time to time. Hopefully at least enough to replace the elderly players that pass. You certainly need to keep the ones you have. You might outlast WWIIOnline and pull in some of those, though I expect most of those would go on to Battlefield or WOT, etc. I can’t see how you would ever reach the populations that you achieved at peak.
Hitech once told me he would never work on any other game except AH. Given the history, in 2001 I understood that reasoning. In 2018? I’m reminded of interviews I’ve seen where directors like Coppola and Scorsese talk about having to do several commercial successes in order to finance their less commercial works of passion. They do that because some things are worth doing even if they don’t rake in millions. Just for the love of it. But someone still needs to pay the light bill. HTC has vast experience in building and hosting massively multi-player online games. I hope HTC has a long future, and I hope AH has a long future.
But honestly, would one more variant of P-38 really change anything?
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 07:06:21 PM
AH still has well over thousand players on the battlegrounds each day. You would not even notice 12 more or less
Completely untrue. Guys who fly a lot (like I used to) are noticed in their presence and absence. Having twelve guys coming into an arena with only 45 online make a huge difference.
The notion that a dozen players won't be noticed is terribly dismissive. EVERY player counts now.
Quote
From the individual standpoint: Absolutely not, because it doesn't matter if I am back or not. My presence changes nothing in the big picture.
It depends on how much you play. I'd say your presence now would have a bigger impact than in times past.
Post by: Lusche on September 11, 2018, 07:28:20 PM
Completely untrue. Guys who fly a lot (like I used to) are noticed in their presence and absence. Having twelve guys coming into an arena with only 45 online make a huge difference.
Highly unlikely they do come in "at once". It's still just ~1400+12, after from all those players only 10-150 are usually online at any given time.
It depends on how much you play. I'd say your presence now would have a bigger impact than in times past.
I was here 4 months ago. My personal "impact" as a single player was doing crap for the game. It doesn't matter for overall numbers if I'm on or not, so the descision to subscribe can only be a personal one. And I made mine based on the fact that the kind of battlefield I loved in AH is no more. It doesn't come back simply when I rejoin... been there, done that.
I am one. The game needs hundreds, thousands. They do not come because of me.
Post by: Ciaphas on September 11, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
Saying that you will not come back to the game until people come back to the game is counter productive.
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Post by: Lusche on September 11, 2018, 07:40:57 PM
Don't get hung up in the numbers, focus on the ideology.
Saying that you will not come back to the game until people come back to the game is counter productive.
I would had preferred the term "numbers coming back" instead of "people coming back". I hope the difference is not lost on you :P
But this is not about me :)
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 08:33:57 PM
Highly unlikely they do come in "at once". It's still just ~1400+12, after from all those players only 10-150 are usually online at any given time.
Twelve players who play only FSO will not be noticed (in the Melee Arena). Twelve players like I once was (online 12 hours a day or more) will be.
Post by: Oldman731 on September 11, 2018, 08:45:26 PM
I can honestly say, without a doubt in my mind, that Hitech and the HTC team has reached the pinnacle of their genre. Aces High III is the finest massively-multi-player hi-fidelity WWII aerial combat based game ever produced.
Period. Full Stop.
Sadly, in 2018, that might be like saying you are the World’s premier precision buggy-whip manufacturer.
Yo Wabbit!
You remember Blue Baron. Long long ago, he wrote something that I copied down, and reproduce here:
This was the second funeral I've attended for Air Warrior, the first being the death of the so-called DOS host in 1995 - the end of the game's Golden Age, and the end to its uniqueness in the online medium. This was the death of the Air Warrior I knew - the one that inspired Hitech and Killer to go off and create Confirmed Kill, and the one HT doggedly sought, with success, to recapture in Aces High. Although I remain immensely proud of our subsequent efforts, taking Air Warrior to Windows, to AOL, to DirectX, and Direct3D, all of us have our own Golden Age for online gaming. That is the time of discovery and amazement, of embarrassment and of unexpected acts of kindness. It is the time we first learn how weak mainstream entertainment is, as we realize it was talking down to us all those years. In online, the audience is the medium - it is a narrative, told by the audience. And the quality of that experience is different if this person or that is present, or not - if anyone of us is present or not. We discover aspects of ourselves that would lay dormant otherwise, but we are unaware of the profound effect this is having on us until later.
As he said, each of us remembers his own Golden Age. I'm sure that's so. The people who came to this game when we had two arenas and hundreds of people remember that as their Best of All Times. I remember AvA, when it had 30 people each night, as my Best of All Times. The greater point is that, for all of us, the very fundamental basis of this game, however you wish to define it, keeps us coming back - just as you keep coming back. I think it's a shame to call it "dead," or to rush off in a huff, as some do, because some feature displeases us. We all have something important in common, and we should keep in touch with that.
Would be good to have you back again, just to mention it.
- oldman
Post by: Ciaphas on September 11, 2018, 08:56:24 PM
I would had preferred the term "numbers coming back" instead of "people coming back". I hope the difference is not lost on you :P
But this is not about me :)
Perpetuating the problem is helpful how?
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Post by: CptTrips on September 11, 2018, 10:32:07 PM
Yo Wabbit!
You remember Blue Baron. Long long ago, he wrote something that I copied down, and reproduce here:
Hey Oldman. Good to see your handle again.
I knew “of” Blue Baron, but I never had a conversation with him. That is an awesome quote. Hold on to that. Someday, someone really needs to capture and document the history of the early days of online gaming. Just to record what it was like to have been there at the beginning and seen it start. It would make a great book. Like “Pirates of Silicon Valley” for MMOG gaming. ;o)
I remember playing DOS AW. I only played RR because I had a crappy phone connection. Played AW on Genie. LoL. Skipped CC and Warbirds. Played some other stuff, but for me, the Golden Age of gaming was probably the first year of AH. Of course, I’m the exact kind of gamer I’m talking about. Looking back on it, it wasn’t WWII air combat I was fascinated with, but online multi-player combat gaming. Online flightsims were really just the best implementation at the time. Many other options now.
And it sorta makes sense. An aircraft in motion has a certain amount on continuity to its path. There is only so fast you can change it’s velocity vector. Remember, this was the days of copper wire. Packet latency was a significant design issue. The relatively smooth motion of an aircraft allowed some possibility of interpolation and prediction to overcome and smooth out the positional errors introduced by signal latency. Just review some of Hitech’s patents. A Battlefield type game back then would really have been impossible. How fast an infantryman could run left, then right, then drop, then jump up and throw grenade, then turn around and run away… there is no way that could have been supported in a multiplayer environment with the connection latency of the day. Air combat was a natural starting place.
Now, to be clear, I’m not saying AH is dead. I am just saying that given the realities of the current competitive landscape, and the very limited demographics of players who are so dedicated to hardcore, hi-fidelity WWII air combat that they’d be willing to climb the learning curve and spend months getting slaughtered before even having a chance…I suspect there is just a limit to how many more players you could reasonably expect to find at this point. I’d guess that AH has about 70% (pure SWAG) of that possible niche market in it’s current player base already. I don’t see huge untapped pools of players waiting. Most people don’t even own a joystick anymore. That is sooooo 1990’s. If they do, it is in a box on the top shelf of the closet with a bunch of 3.5” floppies. :rofl
There used to be more players, but they were probably like me; they just wanted a great multi-player combat experience and AH was the best option. There are so many options now if you are not locked in to WWII air combat. Most people aren’t. It was cool. I enjoyed it, but it’s definitely a “different” gaming experience. I call it “long form” gaming. I just am not convince you can bring back all those peak casual players that now have so many other intense gaming options.
At some point, I wonder if HTC is going to need to leverage it’s highly valuable skills to create other revenue streams to help fund their AH passion. Even though I’m not really into it anymore, I recognized AH as the best in class of it’s genre and hope it is kept alive for those who still have that interest.
And I’ll open an account now and then for a time just keep my finger on the pulse. :aok
Regards,
Wab
Post by: Puma44 on September 13, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
As he said, each of us remembers his own Golden Age. I'm sure that's so. The people who came to this game when we had two arenas and hundreds of people remember that as their Best of All Times. I remember AvA, when it had 30 people each night, as my Best of All Times. The greater point is that, for all of us, the very fundamental basis of th game, however you wish to define it, keeps us coming back - just as you keep coming back. I think it's a shame to call it "dead," or to rush off in a huff, as some do, because some feature displeases us. We all have something important in common, and we should keep in touch with that.
oldman
I agree Oldman. Those days of high numbers in the AvA with no enemy icons were the all time best I’ve experienced in AH. That was the closest to real world fighter combat, which I dearly miss. :salute
Post by: hitech on September 13, 2018, 10:45:59 AM
HiTech
Post by: Wiley on September 13, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
Wiley.
Post by: Shuffler on September 13, 2018, 01:46:54 PM
Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on Friday snip
Screen door on a submarine logic.
Post by: AAIK on September 13, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Post by: scott66 on September 13, 2018, 03:52:18 PM
Post by: Max on September 13, 2018, 03:55:27 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on September 13, 2018, 04:22:58 PM
I'll re-pitch a previous suggestion once again. Certainly HTC has a data base of past subscribers, with email addresses. Do a blitz mailing with a 60 day complimentary subscription that requires activation within 14 days. If all the folks who claimed they'd return if the #'s were up, made use of the offer, we'd have 300 + players, if not more. This doesn't cost HTC a dime other than the time required to get the mailing out. Worth a shot.
+1
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Post by: ccvi on September 13, 2018, 04:35:20 PM
How many random internet gamers out there even own a joystick you think? HOTAS? Rudder peddals?
My Warthog is number 45k'something. Look around and estimate how many people use one. I guess around 10%. With that, the total number of sticks in use is half a million.
There's many videos about flight sims on YouTube with 1m+ views.
Post by: Ciaphas on September 13, 2018, 04:39:30 PM
Screen door on a submarine logic.
Exactly,
The "I'll play again when the numbers are up" crowd are just perpetuating the situation.
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Post by: Mongoose on September 13, 2018, 10:47:00 PM
There used to be more players, but they were probably like me; they just wanted a great multi-player combat experience and AH was the best option. There are so many options now if you are not locked in to WWII air combat.
Regards,
Wab
For me, it's not the mult-player combat experience, it's the airplanes.
Aces High is an unparalleled celebration of aviation, and a memorial to those who flew these machines for real. :salute
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 14, 2018, 01:16:58 AM
I'll re-pitch a previous suggestion once again. Certainly HTC has a data base of past subscribers, with email addresses. Do a blitz mailing with a 60 day complimentary subscription that requires activation within 14 days. If all the folks who claimed they'd return if the #'s were up, made use of the offer, we'd have 300 + players, if not more. This doesn't cost HTC a dime other than the time required to get the mailing out. Worth a shot.:aok Heck, for that matter...wonder what would happen if the "POT" was sweetened? Like maybe be in a Drawing to win some GREAT GEAR..i.e. TrackIr, Vr set up or even a new PC to play on. I am more than willing to fund this experiment. It would just need approval from HTC and some IDEAS about how to do this. I am thinking about using results from either a Pick 3 or the big lotto...power ball i think. It sure would hurt the current numbers any way :aok
Post by: Skuzzy on September 14, 2018, 06:08:18 AM
I'll re-pitch a previous suggestion once again. Certainly HTC has a data base of past subscribers, with email addresses. Do a blitz mailing with a 60 day complimentary subscription that requires activation within 14 days. If all the folks who claimed they'd return if the #'s were up, made use of the offer, we'd have 300 + players, if not more. This doesn't cost HTC a dime other than the time required to get the mailing out. Worth a shot.
We cannot do that. The last time we did that, several ISP's banned email from us. Three still ban email from us. All it takes is one person to complain about unsolicited email and you get blacklisted.
That blacklist is a database many ISP's subscribe to. Easy to get on that list and very difficult to get off of it.
Post by: Max on September 14, 2018, 06:53:24 AM
So anytime I get unsolicited junk email, all I need to is raise a stink with my ISP? Not only do I get loads of them, often my attempts to unsubscribe are ignored.
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 14, 2018, 02:51:20 PM
Post by: Mongoose on September 14, 2018, 09:00:25 PM
That blacklist is a database many ISP's subscribe to. Easy to get on that list and very difficult to get off of it.
We have that problem whenever one of our users bites on a phishing email. There is more than one list, and it takes days to get off of all the lists.
Post by: Mongoose on September 14, 2018, 09:03:36 PM
So anytime I get unsolicited junk email, all I need to is raise a stink with my ISP? Not only do I get loads of them, often my attempts to unsubscribe are ignored.
Unfortunately, many of those come from botnets, which are very difficult to shut down.
Post by: dogtag380 on September 16, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
For me, if there was a 1 month free for returning players, I would come back and test the waters again. You don't have to mass email everyone... just make an announcement in the forums with enough heads up and people will return.
Rooting for you guys. :salute
Post by: edge12674 on September 16, 2018, 02:23:30 PM
For me, if there was a 1 month free for returning players, I would come back and test the waters again. You don't have to mass email everyone... just make an announcement in the forums with enough heads up and people will return.
I agree. I think every squad has members that are no longer playing, but we still have ways of contacting them.
Post by: Vraciu on September 16, 2018, 02:37:24 PM
I'll re-pitch a previous suggestion once again. Certainly HTC has a data base of past subscribers, with email addresses. Do a blitz mailing with a 60 day complimentary subscription that requires activation within 14 days. If all the folks who claimed they'd return if the #'s were up, made use of the offer, we'd have 300 + players, if not more. This doesn't cost HTC a dime other than the time required to get the mailing out. Worth a shot.
And if you had read what I wrote already you would have saved yourself the trouble.
They can't do that. The last email campaign got them labeled as spam by numerous providers.
Post by: Max on September 16, 2018, 02:40:07 PM
And if you had read what I wrote already you would have saved yourself the trouble.
Next time I'll meander thru your 8876 posts before making a comment :neener:
Post by: FOGOLD on September 17, 2018, 02:56:17 AM
From a UK perspective the arenas are all empty except for the MA which seems to be dwindling too. There seems to be zero European interest in the game. Yet it's the best online game out there. Il2 is great but the online game is just not as good.
Post by: nrshida on September 17, 2018, 03:26:11 AM
Next time I'll meander thru your 8876 posts before making a comment :neener:
That is funny :rofl
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 17, 2018, 10:51:03 AM
Marketing. Films like Vudus FSO film, in the films and screen shots, should be cut down and used for commercials, social media, and put on the front page of the steam site. It's about looking excited! Get those people to Crave the game again. These great films practically go unseen.
Put the best aspect of the game into clear visible sight for newbies to see. Put it right in front of their faces.
Post by: Wiley on September 17, 2018, 01:26:31 PM
One month free for all players who have never played AH3 would increase the risk of no first month subscribers for hitech, but I think it would pay off in a few months. With the advertisements, now might be the best time to open the flood gates. I think it's very beneficial for players to have a longer period to learn the game before deciding if they want to buy it.
When the vast majority of new logins stay for a few minutes then log, never to return, a free year wouldn't help.
Wiley.
Post by: pembquist on September 17, 2018, 01:54:25 PM
I went to the Steam and read the reviews and it seems like people don't really understand what they are getting with free. Part of that is that for most if not all of us the game is the MA FSO and Scenarios and all the other great resources you make available for free require a substantial amount of self starting or at a minimum friends to be enjoyable. It isn't completely obvious how or what to do with them and that is on top of the usual basic flight learning curve.
I believe that the Match Play is where it is at. I would make that free to play, I would put a handicapped robot/s in it and I would grey out everything else with the option to unlock for a two week free trial. I would also try to have some kind visuals from the MA when it was populated as a teaser that you could see when you were on as a free user, teasers. My thinking is that if you could whet peoples appetites with the instant action/kills etc. of the match play they would see the point of the tedious parts of the MA.
I don't like the idea of F2P but if you were to consider it for a revenue model, I would make matchplay a stand alone F2P game with airplane sales and then let people use some of what they paid for those planes towards a subscription if they subscribe, and make all the planes available in match play to subscribers.
Post by: hitech on September 17, 2018, 02:28:30 PM
HiTech
Post by: CptTrips on September 17, 2018, 03:15:48 PM
I'd love to see just the smallest little bit of upgrade to the free WWI arena. I know people will say that all effort should be on the LW Main, but there might be some benefit here.
The free WWI arena is a great place for people to try out the game. WWI have a certain level of simplicity. No convergence, flaps, WEP, raised gear.. choosing between 4 planes instead of 80! There is just no game there.
A very simplified true arena there might serve as a minor league to farm talent for the Main.
I'm not talking the full monty. No strat, or radar, or HQ.
Just a couple of bomb load outs.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXQS6EdXR1MtxnzKCstU3l0Hvfp1GOc8khLNvOROBdj4xtoOsQ)
The fighters could knock out a field's 30 cal gun pits and then bring in a truck within x distance:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1221/3420/products/Screenshot_11_10b6b3a5-c787-4aed-b8d9-24a59d9d500e_1024x1024.jpg?v=1535476319)
And let out a troop of grunts to storm the field command tent. Get x number of grunts into the tent and flip the field.
Fighters would have to take out the field guns and establish air dominance over the field long enough to get the grunts in. Grunts can be strafed.
That seems like it would be a relatively small thing that would make that a great place for people to cut their teeth on some of the basic concepts they will see in the Main. In a simplified form.
I'm not talking about starving the LW Main of resources for months. That is something you should be able to knock out in say...I dunno....two weeks? :cool:
Post by: Kingpin on September 17, 2018, 03:33:03 PM
Match play is free, I Really like the idea of having to unlock the 2 week offer. And the Robot to help get ti to critical mass.
HiTech
During my interactions with new players, especially during the Steam launch last year, the biggest single complaint was the difficulty in flying with either mouse/keyboard or a game controller. I think much of this had to do with the sensitivity of the controls, the default key bindings and the out-dated nature of the "clipboard" GUI.
I specifically sought out and attempted to help dozens of new players and most were having issues along these lines. For every player willing to take the time to get help, there must have been 20 or more who simply couldn't figure it out on their own and left.
I like the idea of a free arena with simple and obvious things to do (maybe add a few bomber mission areas too). However, players will not stay in a game if they can't control their aircraft/vehicles or simply have no idea what to do once they can. In my opinion, a focus on an easy to use mouse/keyboard and game-controller oriented flight model (at least in the free arena), along with perhaps a simpler and more intuitive GUI with obvious mission/activity choices, would be the most critical improvements that could be made to AH to retain new players.
Post by: CptTrips on September 17, 2018, 03:47:36 PM
During my interactions with new players, especially during the Steam launch last year, the biggest single complaint was the difficulty in flying with either mouse/keyboard or a game controller. I think much of this had to do with the sensitivity of the controls, the default key bindings and the out-dated nature of the "clipboard" GUI.
I specifically sought out and attempted to help dozens of new players and most were having issues along these lines. For every player willing to take the time to get help, there must have been 20 or more who simply couldn't figure it out on their own and left.
I like the idea of a free arena with simple and obvious things to do (maybe add a few bomber mission areas too). However, players will not stay in a game if they can't control their aircraft/vehicles or simply have no idea what to do once they can. In my opinion, a focus on an easy to use mouse/keyboard and game-controller oriented flight model (at least in the free arena), along with perhaps a simpler and more intuitive GUI with obvious mission/activity choices, would be the most critical improvement that could be made to AH to retain new players.
I think you are right.
Something else I would do if I were King, is on first newbie startup, I would baby step wizard though the absolute minimal controller set up and and then to test the setup, drop them in mid flight behind a slow moving goon and let them line it up and shred it. After the goon is dead, then bring up the normal start UI. Let them get that first explosion as fast as possible against something defenseless. It might be a while before they get that thrill again. :rofl Dropping them in the Main, it might be days again before they can stay alive long enough to get something close to being in their gun sights.
I think it's hard for everyone to realize how intimidating and confusing this game can be to a new user that isn't a Warbirds or AW refugee switching over.
In that first 10 minutes that a new person tries the game, they need to kill something. If they flail for 10 minutes to take off and find their way to an enemy after wandering around lost another 10 minutes, just to get instantly annihilated by a vet...
Close. Uninstall.
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 17, 2018, 09:11:06 PM
I think you are right.
Something else I would do if I were King, is on first newbie startup, I would baby step wizard though the absolute minimal controller set up and and then to test the setup, drop them in mid flight behind a slow moving goon and let them line it up and shred it. After the goon is dead, then bring up the normal start UI. Let them get that first explosion as fast as possible against something defenseless. It might be a while before they get that thrill again. :rofl Dropping them in the Main, it might be days again before they can stay alive long enough to get something close to being in their gun sights.
I think it's hard for everyone to realize how intimidating and confusing this game can be to a new user that isn't a Warbirds or AW refugee switching over.
In that first 10 minutes that a new person tries the game, they need to kill something. If they flail for 10 minutes to take off and find their way to an enemy after wandering around lost another 10 minutes, just to get instantly annihilated by a vet...
Close. Uninstall.
Totally agree with you here! Great points!
Post by: Oldman731 on September 17, 2018, 09:24:22 PM
In that first 10 minutes that a new person tries the game, they need to kill something.
Probably this is one of the best illustrations of how times change. Did you kill something within the first 10 minutes of playing AH? Me, either.
In AW, by contrast, I did! It was a drone C47, in the new users arena. I stalked it, closed to not-very-close range, and managed to down it (with the hit bubble of the day, and the wicked hardness of a goon, not too difficult). Success! And that was the last success I had for months.
Now: If that Drone Victory is what kept me going (and who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?), seems to me that having a new users arena with drones flying around might be useful. Except we already have that in the offline environment.
Really, you can't make the game too easy without destroying the game. If you're going to step into the arena, you can't reasonably expect to be as competent as people who have been there already.
- oldman (well, that's what I say)
Post by: Arlo on September 17, 2018, 09:26:35 PM
Post by: nooby52 on September 17, 2018, 10:11:50 PM
Post by: CptTrips on September 17, 2018, 11:20:07 PM
Probably this is one of the best illustrations of how times change. Did you kill something within the first 10 minutes of playing AH? Me, either.
In AW, by contrast, I did! It was a drone C47, in the new users arena. I stalked it, closed to not-very-close range, and managed to down it (with the hit bubble of the day, and the wicked hardness of a goon, not too difficult). Success! And that was the last success I had for months.
Now: If that Drone Victory is what kept me going (and who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?), seems to me that having a new users arena with drones flying around might be useful. Except we already have that in the offline environment.
Really, you can't make the game too easy without destroying the game. If you're going to step into the arena, you can't reasonably expect to be as competent as people who have been there already.
- oldman (well, that's what I say)
I'm merely suggesting that can be used as part of an initial control setup. Configure the controls, let them kill the goon to test the setup. It gives them a little dopamine bump and lets them test out their controls in flight quickly anyway. Did that control setup work well for you? If not reconfigure and do it again. If so, go to the normal start screen and let them choose an arena. I don't see any harm in it.
It's a common pattern in many games to let the user see a little fun stuff while getting stuff setup. It is good game design to provide the user a trail of little victories as you acclimatize them to the system. Just enough to keep the reward system from getting bored and closing the app.
And you are right. Times have changed.
There is a LOT more competition now days from AAA titles to vie for consumers time and dollars. Many of them free downloads, so there is little cost in uninstalling something that is annoying you or boring you. In the end, you maybe have 15-30 min max to convince someone to stick with a game that was a free download anyway.
If you can't make that sell in that time, they'd just as soon uninstall and go on to one of the other games they have downloaded that day on their drive waiting to be tried. There is an infinite supply of content chasing finite time and dollars. Now maybe they are lazy iGen, but their cash is still green. And Hitech might prefer not retiring in a van down by the river.
IMHO, too much hope is placed in some new ad campaign. You might get new downloads from that exposure, but it doesn't mean anything unless they convert to subscription. I wonder what the Steam conversion rate was. It doesn't sound like it was massive. Is there reason to believe the downloads from an ad campaign would have a higher conversion rate?
What was the average abandonment time for the Steam users? Was it months, weeks, or minutes?
I'd think that first it is probably more important to figure out how to extend the engagement time before abandonment and increase conversion rate. Even if the ad brings in new potential players, you still have to make the sale. If you can't make the sale, then there was no point to the ad. Merely getting more downloads doesn't pay the light bill. You don't get paid for downloads.
Post by: FOGOLD on September 18, 2018, 05:05:38 AM
I think you are right.
Something else I would do if I were King, is on first newbie startup, I would baby step wizard though the absolute minimal controller set up and and then to test the setup, drop them in mid flight behind a slow moving goon and let them line it up and shred it. After the goon is dead, then bring up the normal start UI. Let them get that first explosion as fast as possible against something defenseless. It might be a while before they get that thrill again. :rofl Dropping them in the Main, it might be days again before they can stay alive long enough to get something close to being in their gun sights.
I think it's hard for everyone to realize how intimidating and confusing this game can be to a new user that isn't a Warbirds or AW refugee switching over.
In that first 10 minutes that a new person tries the game, they need to kill something. If they flail for 10 minutes to take off and find their way to an enemy after wandering around lost another 10 minutes, just to get instantly annihilated by a vet...
Close. Uninstall.
You can practice offline though for all that.
Post by: caldera on September 18, 2018, 08:49:13 AM
Then make it plain that they are wasting their free two weeks without first watching these tutorials.
Post by: Drano on September 18, 2018, 11:34:02 AM
I think HTC should hire ChrisFix to make tutorials for brand new players. Nobody explains stuff better for the noobs. Have lessons on stick setup, keyboard use, clipboard map, view setup, etc.
Then make it plain that they are wasting their free two weeks without first watching these tutorials.
Yaknow without going to look I'm pretty sure Vudu has already done a bunch of vids like this for this exact reason.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Wraith_TMS on September 18, 2018, 02:01:03 PM
I'm merely suggesting that can be used as part of an initial control setup. Configure the controls, let them kill the goon to test the setup. It gives them a little dopamine bump and lets them test out their controls in flight quickly anyway. Did that control setup work well for you? If not reconfigure and do it again. If so, go to the normal start screen and let them choose an arena. I don't see any harm in it.
It's a common pattern in many games to let the user see a little fun stuff while getting stuff setup. It is good game design to provide the user a trail of little victories as you acclimatize them to the system. Just enough to keep the reward system from getting bored and closing the app.
And you are right. Times have changed.
There is a LOT more competition now days from AAA titles to vie for consumers time and dollars. Many of them free downloads, so there is little cost in uninstalling something that is annoying you or boring you. In the end, you maybe have 15-30 min max to convince someone to stick with a game that was a free download anyway.
If you can't make that sell in that time, they'd just as soon uninstall and go on to one of the other games they have downloaded that day on their drive waiting to be tried. There is an infinite supply of content chasing finite time and dollars. Now maybe they are lazy iGen, but their cash is still green. And Hitech might prefer not retiring in a van down by the river.
IMHO, too much hope is placed in some new ad campaign. You might get new downloads from that exposure, but it doesn't mean anything unless they convert to subscription.... <snip>
This poster's idea has merit. And at the risk of my adding to the noise:signal ratio in this conversation, perhaps an idea similar to what has worked for other successful game franchises can be adapted to AH? The idea of hand-holding new players might be contrary to HTC's traditional "hands off" approach to newbies' experience, but as it's been pointed out, times (and player attitudes) have changed. What matters now, if this this game is to thrive, is to retain warm, revenue-producing bodies, even if HTC is forced to nanny them through their initial teething period with AH. As a very rough example, see how this well-known combat game handled it; literally forcing players to go through the prelim training and set up process as part of their intro to the game:
In the example above, players go through vital training, but success in this initial phase gives them confidence for what's to come and opportunities to adapt game controls to suit their own preferences. Perhaps a similar intro phase (in general terms) can be developed that offers the same benefits to newbs? Yes, it will require development, but it is a proven approach--in other games--that acclimitizes their new players. For AH, this may help retain new players, thus justifying the resource investment. BTW, veterans of the game should be given a way to opt out of this training.
FWIW,
Post by: Kingpin on September 18, 2018, 03:49:04 PM
You can practice offline.
You can watch YouTube videos.
You can read about it on the website.
You can go to the forum/BBS.
You can get with an AH Trainer.
Note that the expectation is for players to leave what they are doing (or exit the game!) to figure out how to play the game. This is the old way. It has been ineffective in retaining players and is not how most games handle it.
The clipboard GUI, literally the first thing players see when entering the game, is old-looking and not intuitive. At least 80% of modern (especially online) buyers make a decision about a product in the first few minutes based on what they see alone. What do you think most players' reactions are when they see the first clipboard pop up? Beyond that, there are no clear set-up instructions. There are no in-game tutorials or easy methods to test and modify their setups. For the majority of people, if they struggle and can't figure out how to solve these issues in-game, on their own, intuitively, then they are gone.
If it were up to me, my focus would be to first update the GUI and add clear tutorials with "rewards" of some kind (if only positive feedback!). Start with clear directions to set up their controls, change key-bindings and fly (with an air start!) to test out their controls and clear instructions to exit if they want to change them. Then show them how to customize their aircraft with fuel load, armament, ords, convergence and skins! Then work on progressive in-game tutorial missions in the aircraft of their choice -- Lesson 1 (airstart): "Follow the C47... good! " Lesson 2: "Follow and shoot the C47... good!" Lesson 3: "Take off, shoot the drone and land... good!" Similar things could be done for GVs and CV task-forces. (i.e. A successful carrier take-off and landing unlocks a new Navy skin.)
I'd do this BEFORE you give new players competitive AI or other players to shoot at. Make the AI difficulty player-selectable, easy, medium or hard in the mission screen (like Warbirds had in their practice missions, IIRC). Maybe unlock more simple things, like more skins or additional aircraft choices, for completing the tutorials or winning dueling missions against AI in different aircraft at different difficulty levels. There are lots of small positive rewards that can be given in the free arena, providing players with a sense of progression, before throwing them to the wolves of the main Melee Arena.
Competing in today's competitive marketplace requires ease of use and some immediate gratification (the "small shot of dopamine", as was perfectly mentioned above) and this would be a good formula for that.
Post by: Vraciu on September 18, 2018, 03:50:19 PM
Post by: Max on September 18, 2018, 04:29:42 PM
These are the things new players have been told for years and they pop up in every thread like this one:
You can practice offline.
You can watch YouTube videos.
You can read about it on the website.
You can go to the forum/BBS.
You can get with an AH Trainer.
Note that the expectation is for players to leave what they are doing (or exit the game!) to figure out how to play the game. This is the old way. It has been ineffective in retaining players and is not how most games handle it.
The clipboard GUI, literally the first thing players see when entering the game, is old-looking and not intuitive. At least 80% of modern (especially online) buyers make a decision about a product in the first few minutes based on what they see alone. What do you think most players' reactions are when they see the first clipboard pop up? Beyond that, there are no clear set-up instructions. There are no in-game tutorials or easy methods to test and modify their setups. For the majority of people, if they struggle and can't figure out how to solve these issues in-game, on their own, intuitively, then they are gone.
If it were up to me, my focus would be to first update the GUI and add clear tutorials with "rewards" of some kind (if only positive feedback!). Start with clear directions to set up their controls, change key-bindings and fly (with an air start!) to test out their controls and clear instructions to exit if they want to change them. Then show them how to customize their aircraft with fuel load, armament, ords, convergence and skins! Then work on progressive in-game tutorial missions in the aircraft of their choice -- Lesson 1 (airstart): "Follow the C47... good! " Lesson 2: "Follow and shoot the C47... good!" Lesson 3: "Take off, shoot the drone and land... good!" Similar things could be done for GVs and CV task-forces. (i.e. A successful carrier take-off and landing unlocks a new Navy skin.)
I'd do this BEFORE you give new players competitive AI or other players to shoot at. Make the AI difficulty player-selectable, easy, medium or hard in the mission screen (like Warbirds had in their practice missions, IIRC). Maybe unlock more simple things, like more skins or additional aircraft choices, for completing the tutorials or winning dueling missions against AI in different aircraft at different difficulty levels. There are lots of small positive rewards that can be given in the free arena, providing players with a sense of progression, before throwing them to the wolves of the main Melee Arena.
Competing in today's competitive marketplace requires ease of use and some immediate gratification (the "small shot of dopamine", as was perfectly mentioned above) and this would be a good formula for that.
Yup. Lots of great suggestions here. :aok
Post by: AAIK on September 25, 2018, 05:46:33 PM
Post by: nugetx on September 26, 2018, 05:42:03 AM
Post by: PanosGR on September 27, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
i would gladly give 10€ or even more to fund a decent new development in the game like a Korea Arena or something like that.
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 27, 2018, 12:09:46 PM
Remember when a game was supposed to be 'fun' ?
AH is still a fun game, something you'd know if you actually played.
Post by: Vraciu on September 27, 2018, 12:13:43 PM
AH is still a fun game, something you'd know if you actually played.
:rofl
He’s waiting for Aces High 4.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/4ctklxtpr/Aces_High_4_-_Nuget_Y.jpg)
Post by: nugetx on September 27, 2018, 04:52:31 PM
:rofl
He’s waiting for Aces High 4.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/4ctklxtpr/Aces_High_4_-_Nuget_Y.jpg)
Vraciu you are right...... those graphics were the best days of online flight sims, 1995-2005, Air Warrior, Warbirds and AH.
Post by: Shuffler on September 27, 2018, 04:54:50 PM
AH is still a fun game, something you'd know if you actually played.
It is a great game. I have a lot of fun. I really missed it while I was unable to play.
Post by: jimson on September 27, 2018, 08:30:56 PM
I made so many things for missions with just a rudimentary knowledge of 3D modeling and terrain building. I really would have liked to pursue it more but it was just so hard without any help.
These mission briefings etc I created by taking apart and rebuilding briefing rooms with custom objects making fake carriers etc.
Imagine what could be done just with what is in the game now by people who really know what they are doing.
https://youtu.be/1VfY0eJWQ-A
https://youtu.be/nxJ7FOrVHu0
Post by: wetrat on September 27, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
About all players can do is try attract friends and people from other internet sights.You should really look in to ads on Twitch and YouTube. That’s how you’ll reach gamers. I was the age of the average twitch viewer when I played this game.
In the next few weeks I'll be running a test week of adds on the Hero Channel. If that shows a positive ROI things will start coming back.
Also I think a populated match play arena would help.
HiTech
Post by: The Fugitive on September 27, 2018, 08:50:15 PM
I think new players should be first introduced to some historical staged missions.
I made so many things for missions with just a rudimentary knowledge of 3D modeling and terrain building. I really would have liked to pursue it more but it was just so hard without any help.
These mission briefings etc I created by taking apart and rebuilding briefing rooms with custom objects making fake carriers etc.
Imagine what could be done just with what is in the game now by people who really know what they are doing.
https://youtu.be/1VfY0eJWQ-A
https://youtu.be/nxJ7FOrVHu0
Those are really cool! Well done!
Cinematic cuts to add into to mission briefings. Something familiar to "gamers" that would help "hook" them into the game.
Post by: jimson on September 27, 2018, 09:05:20 PM
Those are really cool! Well done!
Cinematic cuts to add into to mission briefings. Something familiar to "gamers" that would help "hook" them into the game.
These weren't really an opening video splash either, they were part of the staged mission system briefing. I really had to get out of the box to do what the game was never really intended to do.
On the Pearl Harbor mission, I created a fake Jap carrier and put the rewired briefing room on that. Because the mission system wouldn't spawn correctly on the deck, I had to start the flights in the air so that you would see the fake GIF like animated sailors cheering as you went by. If the planes could have spawned on the deck I probably would have had to add a headwind so they could take off from a stationary object. Not to mention that with varying spawn points, it would be hard to get them all to spawn on the deck instead of in the sea, and of course the "bonzai" cheers timing would be off for some of the planes.
Post by: jimson on September 27, 2018, 09:49:17 PM
This was all part of the "Mission Theater" deal I was running in AvA for a short period.
I was trying to create a "Combat Tour lite" if you will with an RPG career aspect. We didn't have a scoring system in AvA but I had spreadsheets for players to submit their after action claims.
My intent was to follow an American Eagle squadron from creation to being absorbed by the 8th air force.
Alas, you can't please everyone and a lot of folks complained that the AI were too unrealistic. Also, though the mission system had come a long way, it still hung up occasionally ruining a planned night. I don't know how much of that might have been my fault. Once you start modifying things as much as I did, you can't count on stability.
The biggest issue was that I couldn't get enough help doing it and it was just too much work for one person. It really was a "labor of love"
This video shows a lot of what there was. Forgive the computer generated voices, I had no budget for actors LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=64a7tXDANN4
Post by: OldBull on September 29, 2018, 10:41:15 AM
Post by: The Fugitive on September 29, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
I don't get out all that much so can someone enlighten me as to what is a "Sweetheartbag". If that is what is killing the game I will be sure to watch out for it.
A "Sweetheartbag" is an auto fill HTC uses when someone types a "nasty" word they may offend someone.
Post by: OldBull on September 29, 2018, 12:59:01 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on September 29, 2018, 03:37:34 PM
Post by: Vraciu on September 29, 2018, 04:34:24 PM
As whats his name says "Constant Vigilance!" :D
ETERNAL vigilance like Charlton/Phillips or something else, like CHECK YOUR SIX?
Post by: The Fugitive on September 29, 2018, 05:10:39 PM
ETERNAL vigilance like Charlton/Phillips or something else, like CHECK YOUR SIX?
Actually it was Mad-eye Moody in the Harry Potter movies :P
Post by: Vraciu on September 29, 2018, 05:13:25 PM
Actually it was Mad-eye Moody in the Harry Potter movies :P
Ah, okay. I don't watch Harry Pothead. :P
Post by: ccvi on September 29, 2018, 06:16:42 PM
A "Sweetheartbag" is an auto fill HTC uses when someone types a "nasty" word they may offend someone.
Is there a translation list somewhere? I'm quite sure its not random, because just from looking at the context a sweetheartbag is not a bellybutton.
Post by: The Fugitive on September 29, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
Is there a translation list somewhere? I'm quite sure its not random, because just from looking at the context a sweetheartbag is not a bellybutton.
ass
shit
damn
diddly - 4 letter word beginning with F
squeak -5 letter word beginning with B (female dog)
amazinhunk - A hole
mother diddlyer - mother F
dumb ass
bigtoe - lady part beginning with C
popsicle - lady part beginning with P
Golly-geen - God D***
just type them in and save and it will show you the new word.
Post by: scott66 on September 29, 2018, 06:32:21 PM
assleave it to fugi to know :rofl that's why he is called fugitive :devil
shit
damn
diddly - 4 letter word beginning with F
squeak -5 letter word beginning with B (female dog)
amazinhunk - A hole
mother diddlyer - mother F
dumb ass
bigtoe - lady part beginning with C
popsicle - lady part beginning with P
Golly-geen - God D***
just type them in and save and it will show you the new word.
Post by: Shuffler on September 29, 2018, 09:14:13 PM
leave it to fugi to know :rofl that's why he is called fugitive :devil
:rofl :rofl
Post by: Skyguns MKII on September 30, 2018, 07:11:01 PM
Post by: mthrockmor on September 30, 2018, 09:36:42 PM
Boo
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 12:08:26 AM
If word of mouth exceeds actual, paid marketing, why does every successful business spend, a combined hundreds of billions in marketing and promos? Just curious? I'm sure if McDonalds could save $500 million a year, and just go word of mouth they would. Hmm
Boo
Because they’re trying to grab market share for stuff people are already buying. It generates instant awareness. It is also becoming quite ineffective. When was the last time you paid attention to every commercial on tv for example? I pause and go grab a soda then hit fast forward on the DVR.
Word of mouth and self-discovery of a company or product are still the #1 way people find out about products and services.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 01:50:45 AM
Commercials are single handedly the best marketing choice. Especially on channels like Fox News. This game should have a commercial on the Smithsonian channel. It would be a perfect place, they even have a day dedicated to flying...
Kids cannot be marketed to because kids don't pay subscriptions. It should be marketed in other countries as well, like Germany and Japan for example.
Word of mouth does not work very well for AH. I've yet to have any friends pay the subscription. It's just not the game for them. Games like AH take a special patience to learn and want to be good at. Most of my friends don't know the first clue about flying or have the enthusiasm like I do.
Remember that Arnold Swartzenager commercial with the war app that would play every other break. It was putting that cheesy game right in everyone's face. Could you imagine how many people signed up for that?
Commercials really work. WW2 games are not out of favor. The marketing for AH is... You want people in their own house to find out about this game so that they can go on their computer right then and there to search the website and find if it interest them.
Post by: Arlo on October 01, 2018, 06:48:51 AM
This game should have a commercial on the Smithsonian channel.
That was funny. The one channel with probably a smaller demographic than the game. :D
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 08:41:22 AM
Nah,
Commercials are single handedly the best marketing choice.
Except when they’re not.
Like now.
Quote
Kids cannot be marketed to because kids don't pay subscriptions.
Yeah. Because kids don’t beg their parents to buy them stuff. :rofl
(I have thousands of dollars in GI JOE toys that say otherwise.)
Quote
Word of mouth does not work very well for AH.
It doesn’t need to. People find it on their own.
Quote
Commercials really work.
If they cost more than the revenue they generate then they don’t work.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 08:42:22 AM
That was funny. The one channel with probably a smaller demographic than the game. :D
:rofl :ahand
Post by: Lusche on October 01, 2018, 09:04:48 AM
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 09:16:43 AM
Except when they’re not.
Like now.
Yeah. Because kids don’t beg their parents to buy them stuff. :rofl
(I have thousands of dollars in GI JOE toys that say otherwise.)
It doesn’t need to. People find it on their own.
If they cost more than the revenue they generate then they don’t work.
Yes they are. There is literally no better form of marketing on a mass scale.
Like Boo said, McDonald's and insurance companies ect, would not be spending multiple hundreds of millions on commercials if they did not work. We all know they exist. How many know AH exist? I sure as hell wouldn't know they exist if I didn't know about AH.
GI Joe's are one time expenses. While some parents would pay, It takes a lucky kid like myself to have parents who are willing to pay every month, especially today when everything cost a fortune to buy. Now I pay for the game. GI Joe would not be popular without commercials either. Violent video games are much harder to get parents to buy over an action figure. Thats why so few kids play AH.
Risk/Reward. That's how business works. There is literally proof all over the boards how many people found this game from the military channel. Marketing is single handedly the best option to raise awareness. Leaving it up to people to find it on their own is a slow process. Putting it in their faces is how you get a lot of customers quickly. It's what the game needs.
That was funny. The one channel with probably a smaller demographic than the game. :D
Simply not true. It's a free channel that is gaining a lot of popularity. Do you have any #s to prove that? It has shows dedicated to flight. Would be perfect for AH and probably affordable. One great commercial would probably attract 500 new customers a month. Just a guess though.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 09:39:02 AM
Yes they are. There is literally no better form of marketing on a mass scale.
Wrong.
Quote
Like Boo said, McDonald's and insurance companies ect, would not be spending multiple hundreds of millions on commercials if they did not work. We all know they exist.
All the commercials in the world will not work on a product people do not want.
Quote
How many know AH exist? I sure as hell wouldn't know they exist if I didn't know about AH.
Most people did not find AH through a commercial. Those that did were not generating enough revenue to offset the cost of said commercials.
Word of mouth and personal initiative are still the #1 way people find products.
Quote
GI Joe's are one time expenses. While some parents would pay, It takes a lucky kid like myself to have parents who are willing to pay every month, especially today when everything cost a fortune to buy.
A single XBox will pay for AH for years. My GI JOE collection would pay for AH for ten lifetimes. One time expenses for every birthday, Christmas, trip to the store etc. year after year after year.
#LogicFail
Quote
Risk/Reward. That's how business works. There is literally proof all over the boards how many people found this game from the military channel.
As a percentage of the whole a mere fraction, and ZERO PERCENT of the thousands coming into the game every month RIGHT NOW.
Quote
Marketing is single handedly the best option to raise awareness.
Someone looked at Wikipedia. :rolleyes:
You do not understand advertising and how it works (or doesn’t).
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2018, 09:47:40 AM
If word of mouth exceeds actual, paid marketing, why does every successful business spend, a combined hundreds of billions in marketing and promos? Just curious? I'm sure if McDonalds could save $500 million a year, and just go word of mouth they would. Hmm
Boo
I know a company that does 4 to 6 mil a year and does not advertise.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 10:02:43 AM
Wrong.
All the commercials in the world will not work on a product people do not want.
Most people did not find AH through a commercial. Those that did were not generating enough revenue to offset the cost of said commercials.
Word of mouth and personal initiative are still the #1 way people find products.
A single XBox will pay for AH for years. My GI JOE collection would pay for AH for ten lifetimes. One time expenses for every birthday, Christmas, trip to the store etc. year after year after year.
#LogicFail
As a percentage of the whole a mere fraction, and ZERO PERCENT of the thousands coming into the game every month RIGHT NOW.
Someone looked at Wikipedia. :rolleyes:
You do not understand advertising and how it works (or doesn’t).
False. I was a business major who studied this crap.
Why do you think Volvo spent millions on the same commercial every damn commercial break. I still have that F ing song stuck in my head.
How about "My pillow". That guy has became famous because of his commercials.
GI Joe was only popular because of it's TV presence. It's popularity has dropped off considerably. What happened to Action Man? Commercials reinforce the awareness of the product and make products cooler and keep them in the spotlight. I could walk all over Portland and ask them if they have heard of AH. Guaranteed not a single person would. Maybe 1. One commercial on a TV would change that. People want to be apart of things that are "in the know".
I'm willing to bet that the military channel was AH most successful marketing campaign.
Xbox still markets with commercials. #logicfail
Word of mouth and personal initiative are not #1 on a large scale. That's one reason why GI Joe no longer sells like it use to. #logicfail
The best example is that app that had Arnold Swartzenager. They put that app in your face and had a cool commercial. How many people do you think signed up? A lot more than word of mouth and personal initiative. Thats for sure.
All the commercials in the world will work on people who enjoy the concept but have never heard of it before. Expanding marketability is ALWAYS a good thing.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 10:21:30 AM
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 10:40:01 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 10:42:37 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 10:45:07 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 10:49:26 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: caldera on October 01, 2018, 10:55:19 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 11:10:12 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 11:11:53 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 11:21:53 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: ccvi on October 01, 2018, 11:25:43 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Lusche on October 01, 2018, 11:29:03 AM
Who said it would?
Recent experience.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 11:55:33 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 11:59:57 AM
Yes they are. There is literally no better form of marketing on a mass scale.
....
One great commercial would probably attract 500 new customers a month. Just a guess though.
You mean subscriptions? Or just downloads?
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2018, 12:07:44 PM
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 12:31:11 PM
What y'all fail to realize is that most people just don't buy very many products. You have to have an extremely wide audience to drag in the bunch that will pay for it. If you cannot reach the majority of the Audience, you will not bring in as many as you could because they will never hear about it.
WW2 movies are not out of favor. Movies like Dunkirk are heavily commercialized to the mass audiance. I didn't even buy a ticket, but I bet millions did....that's my point.
Theres a reason why companies spend tons on advertising with commercials in repetitition. It works.
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 12:41:48 PM
If they stopped, there must have been a reason. If it didn't justify itself on the Military Channel, I doubt it would work better on the Smithsonian Channel.
Sure, it's worth trying and different platform with different ad approach, but I wouldn't pin your hopes on it making a order of magnitude change. I'd be amazed if it was even break-even.
Seems stuff like putting CD in a a box with purchased joysticks is the more targeted type of stuff. Google ads, etc. I'm not sure that would even be cost effective.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 12:53:16 PM
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 12:54:33 PM
Hitech strikes me as a reasonably bright guy. I have to assume if their past advertisements were consistently making them enough money to justify the risk and cost, they simply would have kept doing it.
If they stopped, there must have been a reason. If it didn't justify itself on the Military Channel, I doubt it would work better on the Smithsonian Channel.
Sure, it's worth trying and different platform with different ad approach, but I wouldn't pin your hopes on it making a order of magnitude change. I'd be amazed if it was even break-even.
Seems stuff like putting CD in a a box with purchased joysticks is the more targeted type of stuff. Google ads, etc. I'm not sure that would even be cost effective.
Exactly. Players are pouring in here. Advertising will not solve the problem we are having in regard to RETAINING them.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 01:21:16 PM
Exactly. Players are pouring in here. Advertising will not solve the problem we are having in regard to RETAINING them.
And you think "word of mouth" is going to work for Aces High if retaining those players is hard? Doesn't sound like a winning arguement to me.
The game needs more awareness. It always has. An updated website, more visuals, more special event advertisements on the website and game. Marketing and awareness has always been HTC weak spot as far I know.
Post by: Arlo on October 01, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
Do you have any #s to prove that? <snip> One great commercial would probably attract 500 new customers a month. Just a guess though.
Looks like neither of us have numbers to prove anything, what-so-ever. AH was advertised on the History Channel, at one time. I don't think I've ever seen even 100 new customers a month, even then (though that would be great). I'm from the commercial TV generation and I really love both history and flight sims but a shiny War Thunder commercial was mildly amusing the first time I saw one and a prime opportunity to drain my bladder, the next (when I was watching broadcast cable - I watch nothing but downloadable content now).
I was making free promotional t-shirts and giving them away at air shows. You'd be amazed at how many people just look at you funny when you try to give them a free shirt with a nice looking AH skin art on it, no strings, no contests. There was a WT booth at one airshow with t-shirts being given to dogfight winners. A lot of visitors gave it a try. Dunno how many of them got hooked.
If I had the money and time I'd go back to exploring the possibility of making sim-pits that not only had the flight gear to play the game efficiently but had the authentic look and feel of being in a WWII cockpit (even modeling the layout of specific birds like the Corsair, Spitfire, Mustang, FW-190 and Zero). I bet that those, on a trailer at an airshow, might get a lot of people interested. I just don't know if it would get them hooked for the long haul, however.
Oh, lotto dreams. ;)
(Missing the game. Gorram new rig is still not functional. School is still a priority.)
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
The game needs more awareness. It always has. An updated website, more visuals, more special event advertisements on the website and game. Marketing and awareness has always been HTC weak spot as far I know.
I agree with you that the more people that learn about your game, the better.
However, would you agree that unless a sufficient percentage of those eyeballs convert to PAYING subscriptions, the the advertising cannot provide a positive ROI?
For instance I wouldn't be surprised if the Steam release got as many or more downloads as would result from any media advertising. And these were very targeted prospects. Known PC gaming enthusiasts. What do you think the percentage of conversion to permanent subscriptions was? You think ads during "Tales of the Gun" or "Pawn Stars" are going to generate higher quality leads?
Advertising will pay for itself if you are achieve high rates of subscriptions. But there is the rub. Without a high conversion rate, the cost of acquiring a few subscriptions becomes prohibitively high. You don't get paid for downloads, you only get paid if they subscribe.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 01:59:48 PM
I agree with you that the more people that learn about your game, the better.
However, would you agree that unless a sufficient percentage of those eyeballs convert to PAYING subscriptions, the the advertising cannot provide a positive ROI?
For instance I wouldn't be surprised if the Steam release got as many or more downloads as would result from any media advertising. And these were very targeted prospects. Known PC gaming enthusiasts. What do you think the percentage of conversion to permanent subscriptions was? You think ads during "Tales of the Gun" or "Pawn Stars" are going to generate higher quality leads?
Advertising will pay for itself if you are achieve high rates of subscriptions. But there is the rub. Without a high conversion rate, the cost of acquiring a few subscriptions becomes prohibitively high. You don't get paid for downloads, you only get paid if they subscribe.
Advertising is nothing more than trying to get people in the door to check it out. How the game works does not equal marketing. If they come in the door and look around, the marketing paid off. If they don't stick around because of the game mechanics, that's an entirely different issue. 500 new people downloading the game because of a commercial is a success. If only 50 stick around for the sub, that's because of an inside issue with the game that most did not like. Therefore you need more people to check out the game in order to increase the subs to 75. Repetitive commercials work very well at this. There is nothing that says you cannot work on the inside game mechanics to reslove those issues to keep them around longer. That's an entirely different part of the business.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 02:10:57 PM
Advertising is nothing more than trying to get people in the door to check it out. How the game works does not equal marketing. If they come in the door and look around, the marketing paid off. If they don't stick around because of the game mechanics, that's an entirely different issue. 500 new people downloading the game because of a commercial is a success. If only 50 stick around for the sub, that's because of an inside issue with the game that most did not like. Therefore you need more people to check out the game in order to increase the subs to 75. Repetitive commercials work very well at this. There is nothing that says you cannot work on the inside game mechanics to reslove those issues to keep them around longer. That's an entirely different part of the business.
We don’t have a marketing problem Violator. Listen very carefully. We have a retention problem. Stop focusing on the non-issue and deal with the actual problem.
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 02:20:45 PM
Advertising is nothing more than trying to get people in the door to check it out. How the game works does not equal marketing. If they come in the door and look around, the marketing paid off.
That is where I disagree. I believe it only pays off if it leads to sales that exceed the cost. Otherwise, you could market yourself right in to bankruptcy. :)
If it is costing them $1,000 in advertising to acquire a user that will pay a $14.99/month subscription, then any company that continues to do that deserves to go out of business.
In a business, all costs have to be justified by the revenue they help produce. Otherwise, it's called a hobby. ;)
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 02:30:54 PM
We don’t have a marketing problem Violator. Listen very carefully. We have a retention problem. Stop focusing on the non-issue and deal with the actual problem.
Marketing and retention are 2 different things.
Marketing a FSO or combat challenge on the arena message that month would get more people involved and more people enganged than only doing it in the Forums. Commercials and advertising work the same way.
Retention is a operational issue that is not effected by the marketing that needs just as much attention. 2 different things completely.
That is where I disagree. I believe it only pays off if it leads to sales that exceed the cost. Otherwise, you could market yourself right in to bankruptcy. :)
If it is costing them $1,000 in advertising to acquire a user that will pay a $14.99/month subscription, then any company that continues to do that deserves to go out of business.
In a business, all costs have to be justified by the revenue they help produce. Otherwise, it's called a hobby. ;)
I'm not saying you don't have a point to an extent, but it's hard to gain revenue if no one knows you even exist. Most businesses have to take a risk on marketing to increase the audiance. If you see that people are responding to the marketing by downloading the game, but don't see them subscribe to the game. It's not the marketing that needs to be cut, it's the operational aspects in the game that need to be looked at. Again, 2 different sides of the business.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
Post by: ACE on October 01, 2018, 03:18:56 PM
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 03:25:50 PM
I'm not saying you don't have a point to an extent, but it's hard to gain revenue if no one knows you even exist. Most businesses have to take a risk on marketing to increase the audiance. If you see that people are responding to the marketing by downloading the game, but don't see them subscribe to the game. It's not the marketing that needs to be cut, it's the operational aspects in the game that need to be looked at. Again, 2 different sides of the business.
And I agree with you to an extend.
I'm all for marketing IF if costs less than it makes you. Though you might need to first fix the retention issue before you waste the money on marketing. The horse before the cart. Once you have the retention issue fixed, pour on the marketing. If I get to where I am generating $1.25 in revenue for every $1.00 in marketing costs, I'll pour money into that marketing all day long.
But until your resolve the retention issue, marketing just generates a series of expensive lost opportunities. You have to prepare the ground so that you can take advantage of the opportunity marketing presents you.
Post by: ccvi on October 01, 2018, 03:38:53 PM
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 03:54:09 PM
And I agree with you to an extend.
I'm all for marketing IF if costs less than it makes you. Though you might need to first fix the retention issue before you waste the money on marketing. The horse before the cart. Once you have the retention issue fixed, pour on the marketing. If I get to where I am generating $1.25 in revenue for every $1.00 in marketing costs, I'll pour money into that marketing all day long.
But until your resolve the retention issue, marketing just generates a series of expensive lost opportunities. You have to prepare the ground so that you can take advantage of the opportunity marketing presents you.
Retention is the single hardest concept for a subscription model. People who view the game thru commercials means more people will subscribe. If people don't know about the game, they won't download it or try it, thus defeating the purpose of solving retention issues in the game. While I think current issues should always be worked on, advertising should also be in full force because you will still get more subscribers and potentially retain them long after the commercial has ran it's course.
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
If Porsche advertises to random poor people looking for a bicycle . They visit the dealers, and then don't buy. Do they have to change the product or the advertisement strategy?
That is a clever argument, but do you really think that is the issue? If HTC was advertising on "My Little Pony" websites, I'd agree. I mean, think the markets they have advertised are as targeted as could be expected. Allow me to suggest an alternative:
The worlds premier manufacturer of highly crafted precision buggy-whips has been pouring thousands of into advertising. They even offer a two-week money back trial. Sadly, their sales remain lackluster. They do have a hardcore fan based of rabid Amish who swear-by their product. However, sales have continued to fall every year, and apparently there just are not enough Amish on the planet to keep them in business no matter how loyal they are. Would it help to just throw more money into advertising?
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 04:16:04 PM
People who view the game thru commercials means more people will subscribe. If people don't know about the game, they won't download it or try it
I totally get that. And if it results in a positive ROI, you'd be crazy not to do it. But surely you realize if it costs me $1,000 advertising dollars to acquire on $14.99/month subscription, that is not sustainable.
1. You could reduce your advertising costs. Chose lower cost mediums.
2. You could more finely tune your advertising market to increase the likelihood of of reaching a customer fit.
3. You could broaden the appeal of your product so that it is a fit for a broader potential market.
4. Some combination of the 3 above.
But you can't market your way to profitability if the product won't sell.
Post by: Shuffler on October 01, 2018, 04:24:49 PM
If word of mouth is bad, the small amount of players who play the game will continue to play while many will be turned away instantly by a bad review from word of mouth from a customer who did not like the game. Commercials lead people to the water without opinion first. The word of mouth can result in worse marketing if word of mouth is not great. Again, I've neve met a single person in real life who has heard of Aces High.
What y'all fail to realize is that most people just don't buy very many products. You have to have an extremely wide audience to drag in the bunch that will pay for it. If you cannot reach the majority of the Audience, you will not bring in as many as you could because they will never hear about it.
WW2 movies are not out of favor. Movies like Dunkirk are heavily commercialized to the mass audiance. I didn't even buy a ticket, but I bet millions did....that's my point.
Theres a reason why companies spend tons on advertising with commercials in repetitition. It works.
Word of mouth works great for our business. We take excellent care of our customers. The same evidently was not true for you.
You can spend 1 mil on advertising and a handful of disgruntled customers can negate that money spent. Word of mouth.
You can spend 10 mil to advertise a movie but if folks ain't digging it..... your audience thins. Word of mouth.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 04:27:55 PM
I totally get that. And if it results in a positive ROI, you'd be crazy not to do it. But surely you realize if it costs me $1,000 advertising dollars to acquire on $14.99/month subscription, that is not sustainable.
1. You could reduce your advertising costs. Chose lower cost mediums.
2. You could more finely tune your advertising market to increase the likelihood of of reaching a customer fit.
3. You could broaden the appeal of your product so that it is a fit for a broader potential market.
4. Some combination of the 3 above.
But you can't market your way to profitability if the product won't sell.
I agree with what you are saying. But we are talking about people who may resubscribe the next month and the month after that, it's not always a one time payment. So if 20 out of the 50 new subscribers play for the next 10 months. That means their subscription did pay for the commercial over time. Not only that. We will have higher #s in the game, thus making the fights more fun and larger, thus bringing in more people.
Post by: Vraciu on October 01, 2018, 04:56:48 PM
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 01, 2018, 05:03:58 PM
See Rule #4
Post by: CptTrips on October 01, 2018, 05:04:40 PM
I agree with what you are saying. But we are talking about people who may resubscribe the next month and the month after that, it's not always a one time payment. So if 20 out of the 50 new subscribers play for the next 10 months. That means their subscription did pay for the commercial over time. Not only that. We will have higher #s in the game, thus making the fights more fun and larger, thus bringing in more people.
You are absolutely right. I was just assuming that amortization was rolled into the final ROI analysis.
I'm sure HTC has good stats on the percentage of trials that convert to subscriptions, and the average month player lifespan...accounting for time-value of money, and risk.... The longer it takes the recoup the acquisition costs essentially equates to risk. If it takes 15 months to break-even on the advertising costs to acquire a user, that is more risk than if it takes 6 months. A lot of things could happen, job loss, marriage, school, etc that could cause him to drop out before HTC has broke even on the costs of getting his business.
In the end HTC can calculate a reasonable estimation of the amount life-cycle revenue they can expect on average from X number of downloads. They can then compare that expected revenue to the costs of the advertising needed to generate those downloads. You can't do that for too long without that ratio being a positive number. Unless of course if you are Tesla. :O
The second argument you made is more interesting. This is a special business because you are not just selling a piece of software, you are selling a massively-multiplayer experience. There is a bit of black magic in the idea of "critical mass". You could argue that you need to burn money for a bit to achieve critical mass so that it becomes self-sustaining. That's scary and un-quantifiable. I'm glad I'm not having to bet my money on black magic. :cool:
Post by: Arlo on October 01, 2018, 10:53:10 PM
Post by: Vraciu on October 02, 2018, 01:28:34 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 02, 2018, 09:10:28 AM
See Rule #4