General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: +Kilroy+ on December 28, 2019, 07:46:36 AM
Title: This Game Dies Because
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 28, 2019, 07:46:36 AM
HTC refuses to adapt. When AH first came out, it was unique enough, that you could make your own rules and players would have to conform to play. Some of the rules were obvious, "a video game has to be widely appealing and easy to learn." Another rule, game developers follow, is to "never allow groups to fall into rivalries, lest the infighting eclipse the game." I also develop game content, that's how I knew how to make those skins. here's an image of one of my developments.
Your solution to the polarity of rivalries appears to be the introduction of a triad and a mild incentive to change allegiances, through imposition of ENY. Despite the reluctance of most players to change countries, to address the ENY dissatisfaction, you maintain the position that the only valid way to alleviate the dissatisfaction, is to change and since you've done all that is necessary, any additional dissatisfaction, is the fault of the player. So the country rivalry remains and you refuse to do anything further about it. In the old days, you could maintain your artificial environment, but now that more and more games challenge the appeal of AH, the only thing you have left to sell to me, is the community, which these policies impact.
So now we get to the state of these rivalries. When I first joined, the Rook country got all the heat. As a Bish, we considered the knight country to be the proxy of the Rooks and we would win maps, if the end rivalry between the two giants, allowed us our opportunity. Somehow, that greatness got transferred to the Bish. Bish wins more maps, consistently, over the past several years, than the other two countries combined. It is why you have nerfed our ammo. Attribute it to a strong weekday presence, skills, whatever. I personally don't think wins, in and of themselves, are a big deal. The game is about war fighting and a win is an obvious goal. However, it is ALWAYS achieved by the number of focused players and ENY has only a nominal effect on that. Winning a map is not a consequence of great tactical prowess, it is a consequence of numbers involved. That is how it is supposed to be. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be perceived that way. For whatever reason, other subscribers really seem to begrudge those 25x3 perk points. Over the years, this rivalry grows, astonishingly, unchecked by HiTech. There are players in each country, solely dedicated to making the lead country, currently Bishop, fail, or lose, or maybe die? They seem very dedicated. You have players, calling themselves hero's, openly and vocally opposing specific squadrons in other countries, and what, HiTech, this is all part of the game? And the noobs think, what?
Your policy of governance seems to be complaint based. "Oh, the resupply dweebs are ruining the war fighting experience, remove the m3!" "Oh, the hidey tanky things are ruining the war fighting experience, give us a screaming obnoxious storch, that we can hound and harass and generally limit the war fighting experience, since our skills prevent us from doing so directly." Storches literally stop the fight. As soon as one ups, most tanks go into hiding and stay until it leaves. As to governance, you just leave these situations, until another slew of complaints motivates adjustment.
FYI, the storch SUCKS. You need to limit the storch to 15 minutes fuel, or something. It does not speed up the battle, the instance of people hiding tanks, is wholly eclipsed by people upping storches to harass tankers, presumably because they can cause the tank player to lose score, while suffering very little risk - which brings us to the biggest problem of the game.
Rather than celebrate the virtual nature of internet gaming, you have actually hypersensitized the fear of death. The biggest problem with the game is the fear of death. You've created a venomous environment of reputation. You have players that consider themselves to be elite, who's highest goal is to record a kill without dying and you mix that with a very complex system of scoring, which I did not understand for YEARS. I did not understand, why, when we almost have a field, all the skilled players stopped helping. They did so, because the scoring system incentivises personal reputation over war fighting goals. It is actually a negative scoring system (it penalizes a player for dying, rather than celebrating the players achievements). As an example, I will fight mightily, during a base take, killing several opponents and leveraging the take, before I die. I should be rewarded equally. Instead, a defender who manages a kill and lands, before the field is lost, will earn a higher score. That does not incentivise engaging the game, it incentivises taking advantage of someone else engaging the game - and that kills new recruits.
Now I'm going to focus on that whole reputation thing, for the one or two of you still reading. We've entered a new chapter of the game, where the numbers have fallen to the point that a country is not represented, at all, but the game continues. Twice over this holiday season, I've joined the game in the morning after one of these sessions - and I've been appalled. This time I'm calling you on it. Countries should not be allowed to capture beyond the required 20%, there should be a penalty for "gouging." This was our gift for Christmas Day: (https://i.imgur.com/vDB9tchh.png) In this next case, the map is 7 hours old, as of this morning. Obviously a crew of freaks went around taking unopposed fields. This is not war fighting, think about it, it is wrote dropping guns, running troops. It is all about imagining the effect it will have on a perceived rival, later. Arguably more work, than game. This is toxic, it kills new accounts and I can't believe I have to make a complaint to get this to your attention.(https://i.imgur.com/AyIds68h.png)
I perceive push back and it's understood all opinions are valid. It's anticipated that people will have personal perspectives. You'll want to agree, or couch dissent in terms that relate to attendance. Gather evidence of surging subscriptions, etc.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Copprhed on December 28, 2019, 07:55:51 AM
Besides all of the gaming of the game that doesn't seem to get mentioned in the "HTC won't do what I say" whines, the main thing that is speeding up the demise is all of the whining, back-biting and personal urination contests that go on in the forum. The forum is why I stopped playing a game that was just fine, despite all the people who decided that they knew better than Dale.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Max on December 28, 2019, 08:15:27 AM
Welp.....I'm getting buttered popcorn and Buffalo Wings ready in advance of the arrival of Vraciu, CpTrips and FLS. :old: :banana:
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Lusche on December 28, 2019, 08:19:38 AM
The forum is why I stopped playing a game that was just fine
:headscratch:
I mean, why didn't you just stop reading the forum and continue to play?
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Shuffler on December 28, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
From this post I guess it may be getting harder to spawn camp hangers.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on December 28, 2019, 08:56:54 AM
The forum is more fun than the game, and it's free!
A whine about the Storch is rare. Even I can kill them relatively reliably on a good day. The problem is their asymmetry, being available only to defenders. To defend, however, you can just let the attacks move and kill them from hiding positions. Not much Storch needed. The attackers, however need to push though hidden defenders to capture a field. Hidden GVs and pilots. Bringing a Storch to attack a field is not really a practical option.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: asterix on December 28, 2019, 08:59:21 AM
Your policy of governance seems to be complaint based. "Oh, the resupply dweebs are ruining the war fighting experience, remove the m3!" "Oh, the hidey tanky things are ruining the war fighting experience, give us a screaming obnoxious storch, that we can hound and harass and generally limit the war fighting experience, since our skills prevent us from doing so directly." Storches literally stop the fight. As soon as one ups, most tanks go into hiding and stay until it leaves. As to governance, you just leave these situations, until another slew of complaints motivates adjustment.
FYI, the storch SUCKS. You need to limit the storch to 15 minutes fuel, or something. It does not speed up the battle, the instance of people hiding tanks, is wholly eclipsed by people upping storches to harass tankers, presumably because they can cause the tank player to lose score, while suffering very little risk - which brings us to the biggest problem of the game.
There are probably some people who enjoy upping a tank to go and find another tank that is sitting and waiting with the engine shut off in some unknown location, but not me. I would most likely up a Storch because I can have more fun with it. Why do I even bother messing with that tank if it is not my thing? Well I do not know it`s exact intentions and I do not want to give up a base for nothing.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on December 28, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
From this post I guess it may be getting harder to spawn camp hangers.
The whole game is designed around spawn camping (called vulching where planes are involved). The basic game style is domination (not capture the flag as some may think), and the spawns are tied to the points to be dominated.
CoD has a system to spawn players where no enemies are near. Just imagine a game of domination there where players are spawning at the points they are currently owning. Total madness.
Edit: of course players can take off elsewhere. However, as soon as there are more fields than players, the only practical way to defend a prior uncontested field is to take off locally. That's not directly the games fault, just a lack of pkayers.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Lusche on December 28, 2019, 09:02:24 AM
Not much Storch needed. The attackers, however need to push though hidden defenders to capture a field. Hidden GVs and pilots. Bringing a Storch to attack a field is not really a practical option.
A long time ago I proposed the addition of the FW 189 to airfields only, giving it the same spotting capabilities as the Storch. Being about twice as fast, it would have been possible to fly to distant Vbases in support of an attack. :airplane:
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: The Fugitive on December 28, 2019, 09:05:25 AM
I mean, why didn't you just stop reading the forum and continue to play?
LOL! I know, right?
....as to the OP,
While a lot of it seems to be written behind a wall of paranoia there are some valid points. I believe the storches do over balance the ground war as well as the GV dar. Im sure more than half the GV players we have lost are due to those two things.
Scoring is what it is. Should Hitech change it to reward "achievements" in a battle your going to get players working out ways to get to the top by milking other aspects of the game. You have to decide then if your after score, or taking bases at ANY cost, like getting a poor score.
I dont know what the answer is to get more players in and more players to stay. I've voiced a number of suggestions, agreed with a number of others suggestions, but Im guessing either HTC doesnt care enough to bother, or doesnt approve of the ideas enough to try any of them, because of the lack of feed back we get.
I'm just going to ride this game until it ends.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 28, 2019, 09:19:22 AM
One can build an ark to survive the flood caused by Kilroy's tears. I have been on the recieving end of his PM's after taking out his tank when he spawn camps a vase. That's all this post is, one gigantic whine. I would have given his whine a 2 out of 5 but decided to give him a 3 due to the crying about the Storch, other than that it lacks originality and you can't dance to it.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: atlau on December 28, 2019, 09:24:32 AM
Kilroy would love it if they replaced the storch with stuka at vbases!
And bish nerfed ammo lol
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on December 28, 2019, 09:48:01 AM
I mean, why didn't you just stop reading the forum and continue to play?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on December 28, 2019, 10:18:04 AM
Killroy hitech has done plenty of changes, one of them due to people like you with your pms.
I remember I couple of years ago, me and another player were looking for you in a heavy wooded area. I spent about 40 minutes looking for you, never saw you. I was almost out of fuel so I climbed to 2k dropped my bombs and headed home. Then I get accused of being a hacker and a cheater, I was confused as I had no idea what you were talking about then I scrolled the text, my bombs had actually fallen on your tank by chance.
So this rivalries you talk about, it's you and a few other players with endless accusations. So think about that.
semp
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on December 28, 2019, 10:27:47 AM
I learned so many things from this post, but this one is probably the most remarkable. All these years, and I didn't know that the Storch was magic. I'm gonna get me one.
- oldman
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on December 28, 2019, 11:20:28 AM
Storches literally stop the fight. As soon as one ups, most tanks go into hiding and stay until it leaves. As to governance, you just leave these situations, until another slew of complaints motivates adjustment.
FYI, the storch SUCKS. You need to limit the storch to 15 minutes fuel, or something. It does not speed up the battle, the instance of people hiding tanks, is wholly eclipsed by people upping storches to harass tankers, presumably because they can cause the tank player to lose score, while suffering very little risk - which brings us to the biggest problem of the game.
Rather than celebrate the virtual nature of internet gaming, you have actually hypersensitized the fear of death. The biggest problem with the game is the fear of death. You've created a venomous environment of reputation. You have players that consider themselves to be elite, who's highest goal is to record a kill without dying and you mix that with a very complex system of scoring, which I did not understand for YEARS. I did not understand, why, when we almost have a field, all the skilled players stopped helping. They did so, because the scoring system incentivises personal reputation over war fighting goals. It is actually a negative scoring system (it penalizes a player for dying, rather than celebrating the players achievements). As an example, I will fight mightily, during a base take, killing several opponents and leveraging the take, before I die. I should be rewarded equally. Instead, a defender who manages a kill and lands, before the field is lost, will earn a higher score. That does not incentivise engaging the game, it incentivises taking advantage of someone else engaging the game - and that kills new recruits.
If the Storch is stopping a GV attack then it has done it's job and is a valuable asset to the side using it. Next time bring a flak wagon and shoot it down. If you know that a certain event is going to take place, you should be able to plan and in most cases remove the threat. This game has proven that it takes all kinds to win a war. If you are solo stomping a field and don't bother to bring the right gear to finish what you started, that's your fault and no one else's.
The fact that you receive any score at all after dying means that you are being rewarded for your effort. As far as how much, well, you died and the other guy didn't. He had the greater achievement because he removed a threat to the base he was defending regardless of the big picture outcome of losing the field after landing. The score system doesn't take "what if'" situations in to account and it shouldn't. The fact of the matter in the scenario you outlined is: The defender shot you (the threat) down and landed his kill. He was then rewarded for that kill. You can have equal opportunity or you can have an equal outcome but you can not have both as they do not exist in the same space for one scenario.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 28, 2019, 11:29:17 AM
If "staying alive" is your only metric to attempt getting a good score. You are doing it wrong.
If the majority of players in AH are playing for score. I feel bad for them.
You can still help the war effort and still get a good score. Hell just look at my score last month. I took 3-4 bases, bombed areas that needed bombed, and tanked in places that needed support, all in under 25 hours.
I do find that many complaints are because people lack the skills and blame it on the game, rather than learn the game better, practice, get better at their weaknesses, and use better SA.
Are there some issues like Match play, far base distances, m3 resupply, too big of maps, and stupid side switch times. Yes. But those are issues that only a game dev can solve.
Why do people insist that players should die more for them to have fun? It's a natural instinct not to want to die. Why would I want to fly 25 miles to a base only to die quickly? Who plays a game trying to die quickly? Especially in a game like AH with a big world map. People don't want to die at all cost. It's not because of score. It's because of natural instinct. This is a really hard game because it's open world and you can't expect people to roll over for you, not gang you, and give you the benefit of the doubt. You have to figure out how to beat those guys and gain the advantage. That's the grand strategy of AH. That's what makes it better than most other games, but also makes it harder. Most people simply can't handle it because it gears more toward natural instincts rather than just run out, shoot, die repeat.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Spikes on December 28, 2019, 11:40:05 AM
If "staying alive" is your only metric to attempt getting a good score. You are doing it wrong.
While there is some contradiction between score and playing/dieing for the team objective, the bigger contradiction is between team objective and what would be the normal ideal behavior.
Examples.
Bomb and bailers. If empty bombers bail when an interceptor is getting near, the interceptor is doing something wrong. That is, getting near empty bombers at all. When bombers are empty, the correct strategy is to stay away. Don't shoot them, don't scare them, hope they RTB. RTBing cost them 30% of their flying time. Time they would spend getting more bombs after being shot or bailing. From the other point of view, the correct behavior of course is not to wait for an interceptor to get near, but to bail right after drop.
Generally, spending time to shoot anything that tries to RTB is a bad idea. Equally stupid as RTBing itself.
Shooting something that is trying to defend somewhere away from the field. Do not waste time to hunt it down. Because when shot, it respawns at the target.
Dropping bombs on GVs at the spawn. Let them drive first. Drop bombs when they are reaching their destination. It takes them a lot more time per bomb needed to kill them.
Killing damaged GVs in tactically inferior locations. Leave them alive, if they respawn they'll be fully operational and close to their map room.
The only thing that is limited is player time. To win the game ensure that the enemy is not using their time efficiently. It is a very strange way to play the game, but the proper one to play the team objective.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: hitech on December 28, 2019, 12:48:27 PM
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Copprhed on December 28, 2019, 03:18:09 PM
Kilroy has a thing for spawn hangers......
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: fuzeman on December 28, 2019, 07:30:39 PM
Another receiver of his Melee PMs here. I had the audacity to come over and help a set of B-24s or 17s he was attacking in a Dora, might have been. I really didn't know that was a bad thing to do. And I made it even worse but doing it in a 'attack' plane which happen to be the Yak-9T, which really is NOT a ground support type of plane. HiTech, you had a whole weekend... I hope the game is fixed by Moanday Gettin' another box of tissues and then to Melee to up a Storch :devil
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: save on December 28, 2019, 09:47:57 PM
Adding new content would mostly likely help alot.
It is not, compared, that much work to use existing plane models to extend the planeset and add a few iconic vehicles.
Im thinking of BF109g6as, BF109g6as, FW190A9(TS engine), and allied fans can fill in the blanks.
Some planes need minor changes A36 come into my mind, spit5VD, FW190A2, Mossie variants.
Add StugIII M10/M36 Firefly (buy a few 3d artist works from a low cost country)
Please leave large maps out of rotation, ask our talented mapmakers to focus on new smaller maps.
Please fix the obvious faulty damage models (Yak3, B26)
Old players may return, scenarios might get a new twist reusing old maps.
If last addon was 2014 it is probably time do do something.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on December 28, 2019, 09:50:34 PM
What is wrong with the b26?
semp
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: The Fugitive on December 28, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
I fly it all the time, think people underestimate the speed at which it flies. It isn't a tank but people are more used to b17s and b24s.
Dive under it, climb up and it's dead.
semp
It will go into a 450 mph shallow dive and prevent most fighters from overtaking it without completely compressing. I can only imagine the waist gunners in front of the open windows holding on for their dear lives against a 450 mph wind at nearly zero G.... :eek:
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: TheBug on December 29, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
It will go into a 450 mph shallow dive and prevent most fighters from overtaking it without completely compressing. I can only imagine the waist gunners in front of the open windows holding on for their dear lives against a 450 mph wind at nearly zero G.... :eek:
One solution for that (and one that I've advocated in the past) would be to tighten up the drone leash to stop such shenanigans when using formations.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: save on December 29, 2019, 09:04:14 AM
The B26 pretty much always escape a tailchase by doing a shallow dive at 400-450 mph to the deck, so the closure rate is abysmal, and it also protect itself from attack from underneath, while blasting attacker to to pieces even before you come into range.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on December 29, 2019, 11:34:24 AM
I have decent success with B-26s so long as I have plenty of alt. It's hard for them to hit me when I am diving in on them from high six at 500 mph. They still take one hell of a pounding compared to just about anything this side of a Yak.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Shuffler on December 29, 2019, 11:54:15 AM
Shoot a wing and a motor.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on December 29, 2019, 12:03:40 PM
The B26 pretty much always escape a tailchase by doing a shallow dive at 400-450 mph to the deck, so the closure rate is abysmal, and it also protect itself from attack from underneath, while blasting attacker to to pieces even before you come into range.
When flying a b26 if you can force them to attack from 6/high 6, it's highly unlikely they can make 3 passes and kill all 3 bombers before you've either killed them or taken out their engine.
When flying a 262 in prefer attacking them from the low front quadrant if possible. If they are on the deck, best chance is to make slashing passes from the side. Still.one of the most difficult buffs to kill when fast.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ramesis on December 29, 2019, 04:19:44 PM
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Firetech on December 30, 2019, 12:05:58 PM
Kilroy's whines are the best. He of course only comes to the forums when he deems the game is on the decline when the bish are getting done to them what they do to Rooks and Knights on a daily basis. His whine about the storch here reflects the rage PMs we all receive from him in game. I guess since he can't send those now, they all got stored up and flowed into this mega whine thread. I'm sure we will be seeing more of these.
BTW.. want to really have Kilroy crying.. up a Storch and fly it "offensively" as he calls it. Just up and follow his t34 (not to close where he can shoot you, he's an excellent shot) when he's running away trying to land his kills. Eventually though, he'll berate or beg another Bish to come and save him so he can land. It makes for an hour full of giggles at the PMs. Now though, I'll have to settle for these whine posts.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Litjan on December 31, 2019, 02:15:23 AM
I was on the receiving end of Kilroy´s PM in game. To me - as a consequence - nothing he says has any relevance.
Litjan
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: AKKuya on December 31, 2019, 07:35:47 AM
We spend too much time reading these posts than actually playing the game. :neener:
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Shuffler on December 31, 2019, 09:16:40 AM
We spend too much time reading these posts than actually playing the game. :neener:
that and too much time hoping the game will return to the way it was 10-15 years ago. I decided to completely quit complaining and just hung up my coat and pants and basically quit the game.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: hitech on December 31, 2019, 11:15:21 AM
that and too much time hoping the game will return to the way it was 10-15 years ago. I decided to completely quit complaining and just hung up my coat and pants and basically quit the game.
Quote
HTC refuses to adapt.
But I have it on good authority that it is the same.
HiTech
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on December 31, 2019, 11:35:41 AM
that and too much time hoping the game will return to the way it was 10-15 years ago. I decided to completely quit complaining and just hung up my coat and pants and basically quit the game.
Well of course you can't go back to the way things were 15 years ago. The world has changed. The competitive landscape has changed. Player preferences and expectations have changed.
You can't go backwards, but you can go forwards. Abandoned old assumptions, slaughter Sacred Cows. Like Fugi said in my sig: "Code can do anything; You just have to write it." There is a reason we don't chisel code into stone. Software is designed for constant change. That's why it isn't hardware.
(https://i.redd.it/3thzyrkfcxe31.jpg)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: GrandpaChaps on December 31, 2019, 02:23:47 PM
HTC refuses to adapt. When AH first came out, it was unique enough, that you could make your own rules and players would have to conform to play. Some of the rules were obvious, "a video game has to be widely appealing and easy to learn." Another rule, game developers follow, is to "never allow groups to fall into rivalries, lest the infighting eclipse the game." I also develop game content, that's how I knew how to make those skins. here's an image of one of my developments.
Your solution to the polarity of rivalries appears to be the introduction of a triad and a mild incentive to change allegiances, through imposition of ENY. Despite the reluctance of most players to change countries, to address the ENY dissatisfaction, you maintain the position that the only valid way to alleviate the dissatisfaction, is to change and since you've done all that is necessary, any additional dissatisfaction, is the fault of the player. So the country rivalry remains and you refuse to do anything further about it. In the old days, you could maintain your artificial environment, but now that more and more games challenge the appeal of AH, the only thing you have left to sell to me, is the community, which these policies impact.
So now we get to the state of these rivalries. When I first joined, the Rook country got all the heat. As a Bish, we considered the knight country to be the proxy of the Rooks and we would win maps, if the end rivalry between the two giants, allowed us our opportunity. Somehow, that greatness got transferred to the Bish. Bish wins more maps, consistently, over the past several years, than the other two countries combined. It is why you have nerfed our ammo. Attribute it to a strong weekday presence, skills, whatever. I personally don't think wins, in and of themselves, are a big deal. The game is about war fighting and a win is an obvious goal. However, it is ALWAYS achieved by the number of focused players and ENY has only a nominal effect on that. Winning a map is not a consequence of great tactical prowess, it is a consequence of numbers involved. That is how it is supposed to be. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be perceived that way. For whatever reason, other subscribers really seem to begrudge those 25x3 perk points. Over the years, this rivalry grows, astonishingly, unchecked by HiTech. There are players in each country, solely dedicated to making the lead country, currently Bishop, fail, or lose, or maybe die? They seem very dedicated. You have players, calling themselves hero's, openly and vocally opposing specific squadrons in other countries, and what, HiTech, this is all part of the game? And the noobs think, what?
Your policy of governance seems to be complaint based. "Oh, the resupply dweebs are ruining the war fighting experience, remove the m3!" "Oh, the hidey tanky things are ruining the war fighting experience, give us a screaming obnoxious storch, that we can hound and harass and generally limit the war fighting experience, since our skills prevent us from doing so directly." Storches literally stop the fight. As soon as one ups, most tanks go into hiding and stay until it leaves. As to governance, you just leave these situations, until another slew of complaints motivates adjustment.
FYI, the storch SUCKS. You need to limit the storch to 15 minutes fuel, or something. It does not speed up the battle, the instance of people hiding tanks, is wholly eclipsed by people upping storches to harass tankers, presumably because they can cause the tank player to lose score, while suffering very little risk - which brings us to the biggest problem of the game.
Rather than celebrate the virtual nature of internet gaming, you have actually hypersensitized the fear of death. The biggest problem with the game is the fear of death. You've created a venomous environment of reputation. You have players that consider themselves to be elite, who's highest goal is to record a kill without dying and you mix that with a very complex system of scoring, which I did not understand for YEARS. I did not understand, why, when we almost have a field, all the skilled players stopped helping. They did so, because the scoring system incentivises personal reputation over war fighting goals. It is actually a negative scoring system (it penalizes a player for dying, rather than celebrating the players achievements). As an example, I will fight mightily, during a base take, killing several opponents and leveraging the take, before I die. I should be rewarded equally. Instead, a defender who manages a kill and lands, before the field is lost, will earn a higher score. That does not incentivise engaging the game, it incentivises taking advantage of someone else engaging the game - and that kills new recruits.
Now I'm going to focus on that whole reputation thing, for the one or two of you still reading. We've entered a new chapter of the game, where the numbers have fallen to the point that a country is not represented, at all, but the game continues. Twice over this holiday season, I've joined the game in the morning after one of these sessions - and I've been appalled. This time I'm calling you on it. Countries should not be allowed to capture beyond the required 20%, there should be a penalty for "gouging." This was our gift for Christmas Day: (https://i.imgur.com/vDB9tchh.png) In this next case, the map is 7 hours old, as of this morning. Obviously a crew of freaks went around taking unopposed fields. This is not war fighting, think about it, it is wrote dropping guns, running troops. It is all about imagining the effect it will have on a perceived rival, later. Arguably more work, than game. This is toxic, it kills new accounts and I can't believe I have to make a complaint to get this to your attention.(https://i.imgur.com/AyIds68h.png)
I perceive push back and it's understood all opinions are valid. It's anticipated that people will have personal perspectives. You'll want to agree, or couch dissent in terms that relate to attendance. Gather evidence of surging subscriptions, etc.
KILROY err, Mr Roboto?
You make some claims I'm not sure are true but maybe based on passion for the game?
I'm not sure this case ever existed quoting you "you could make your own rules". Examples please?
Now, the ENY, I kind of agree with. I hate to say it but I do. However, the inclination to change sides is "slightly" tempered by the inability to change sides within a set timeframe. I'm not sure that time frame is long enough.
I'd much rather see us go back to EW, MW and LW arenas.
I'm not sure where you are going with this statement "There are players in each country, solely dedicated to making the lead country, currently Bishop..." I've seen map wins go many ways, so I'm not sure what this statement means or where the evidence leads to that statement.
I'm totally lost on your argument about the storch aircraft.
Reputation. I think you drifted from your point. Player reputation is not tied to taking bases, so I'm confused.
But your statement of "In this next case, the map is 7 hours old, as of this morning. Obviously a crew of freaks went around taking unopposed fields. This is not war fighting, think about it, it is wrote dropping guns, running troops. It is all about imagining the effect it will have on a perceived rival, later. Arguably more work, than game. This is toxic..." assumes a primary goal of the game designers. And, it's honestly a good question to be posed. Is the purpose of Aces High to provide "FAIR" game play or "FAIR" fighting? There is a huge difference.
This is a game built on war. It is a game, none-the-less. But, what is "fair" should be defined by the game limits. Is there bad play? or bad respect? Sure! We've built our own code of conduct in this game. But, that code of conduct outside the general rules of the game does not make it "official". And, what one person determines as "fair" isn't the same as another player.
While I agree with some of your premises on a cursory level, overall, I'm not sure your subject for this topic has any weight.
GrandpaChaps
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Softail on January 02, 2020, 07:11:00 AM
Storches suck?!?!?!
I LOVE seeing Storchies..... Hell....its the reason I take M8's to bases (that and to frustrate the guys in the Tiggers trying to kill me without leaving the pad).
I kill those little suckers all the time with my single .50 cal. Hell, an M8 can roll almost as fast as they can fly!!!!
The only part that sucks is when I run outta .50 cal. Then I have to use my cannon or Co-Ax gun.
Bring on the Storchies.....as many as you can up at once would be very nice.
Softy.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vinkman on January 02, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
With all due respect Killroy, leave the Storches alone, they're not the problem. :salute :)
It's clear after 23 years of playing that the game has no designed purpose. It is a lab that has lots of ways to play, and lots of ways grade yourself. Really, how many people jump on everyday to help their side win the war? Very few. They may want to help take a base if asked, or if that's where the action happens to be, but most players are setting their own agenda, which makes the outcomes of any marco game stat chaotic. If the Bish are winning all the maps, it's because the Jokers are currently unchallenged at base taking. That is their personal squad goal. The game play numbers have fallen to where one good sized squad can dominate the macro metrics...winning the war. It's not because of some conspiracy or fundamental flaw in the 3-sided war concept.
Next, you have to stop blaming the reducing numbers on game play, or lack of change. A rules change is not going to make players enjoy the game more and play longer, and sign up their friends. players are leaving because we are all getting old. I'll wager this game has the highest average age of any MMO in the world today, and each year the median age goes up by one year. eventually age catches up with everyone, for various reasons, death, health, income...etc.
The numbers are reducing because: 1) WWII is now 70 year old event, and as such it is fading the hearts of each successive younger generation. so they aren't drawn to it like most of the 50+ year olds who play are/were. the Player base is aging, because younger players are not as interested in this genre as we were. Older players are...on the clock. Everyone will quit at some point.
2) This game is hard to learn. The view system alone is tough to master, then there's flying a plane. It's a simulator, not a button smashing video game. Then you have to learn ACM and Gunnery before you're effective. This means you need to come with a passion to wan't to be a great WWII fighter pilot/bomber/tanker or you won't stick it out. (SEE point #1)
3) It takes a high end PC with some decent peripherals to play, making it a significant investment. With $400 PS4's out there that have a million multi-player games the competition is growing every year. And to date they can't play in AH3
4) highly skilled players are what's left. But some are higher than others. The ones that have plateaued are tired of running up YUCCA's kill streak. So they run. The others have figured out that working in groups makes for great success (ganging,hording, picking). The fix for this is not rules change of a new map or a new plane, or a two sided war...it's more people.
So what o do about it? GET MORE PEOPLE here and RETAIN them. Here's How:
1) Make the AH3 Arena's accessible to Game console players. Make a version that runs on X-Box, and PS4 that you can play with a game controller. It needs to become a mixed platform MMO because it needs to tap that humongous pool of gamers. 2) Develop an offline story mode with training. like many MMOs first you play through the story mode and it teaches you how to do what you'll need in the game. use the view system, set up controls, fly, gunnery, ACM, how to: take a base, bomb, etc...Completed the Stroy mode unlocks the $$Arenas (where you still have to pay the monthly fee). LEt's face it, there aren;t enough people putting the time in the Training arena anymore. You need to be able to train yourself. Story mode is how the rest of the successful MMOs do it.
3) Monetize achievements. If you earn achievement you earn a $1 or two credit off next month's bill. Then design the achievements to promote better game play. Many of them already are. The new generation loves that. (NOT ACHIEVEMENTS: winning the war, winning the tour, or any of the current scoreboard categories)
5) Make Skins and other customization earned. Lock all but default skins for beginners, then you unlock skins by earning achievements in the various planes. The new generation loves that stuff. The skins you paint your plane with tell everyone the level of things you've accomplished in that plane.
6) Drop death stats. Just count stuff you've killed or destroyed. Now how many times you've died doing it, or how many bullets missed their mark while trying.
Happy New Year. :salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Shuffler on January 02, 2020, 02:26:14 PM
With all due respect Killroy, leave the Storches alone, they're not the problem. :salute :)
It's clear after 23 years of playing that the game has no designed purpose. It is a lab that has lots of ways to play, and lots of ways grade yourself. Really, how many people jump on everyday to help their side win the war? Very few. They may want to help take a base if asked, or if that's where the action happens to be, but most players are setting their own agenda, which makes the outcomes of any marco game stat chaotic. If the Bish are winning all the maps, it's because the Jokers are currently unchallenged at base taking. That is their personal squad goal. The game play numbers have fallen to where one good sized squad can dominate the macro metrics...winning the war. It's not because of some conspiracy or fundamental flaw in the 3-sided war concept.
Next, you have to stop blaming the reducing numbers on game play, or lack of change. A rules change is not going to make players enjoy the game more and play longer, and sign up their friends. players are leaving because we are all getting old. I'll wager this game has the highest average age of any MMO in the world today, and each year the median age goes up by one year. eventually age catches up with everyone, for various reasons, death, health, income...etc.
The numbers are reducing because: 1) WWII is now 70 year old event, and as such it is fading the hearts of each successive younger generation. so they aren't drawn to it like most of the 50+ year olds who play are/were. the Player base is aging, because younger players are not as interested in this genre as we were. Older players are...on the clock. Everyone will quit at some point.
2) This game is hard to learn. The view system alone is tough to master, then there's flying a plane. It's a simulator, not a button smashing video game. Then you have to learn ACM and Gunnery before you're effective. This means you need to come with a passion to wan't to be a great WWII fighter pilot/bomber/tanker or you won't stick it out. (SEE point #1)
3) It takes a high end PC with some decent peripherals to play, making it a significant investment. With $400 PS4's out there that have a million multi-player games the competition is growing every year. And to date they can't play in AH3
4) highly skilled players are what's left. But some are higher than others. The ones that have plateaued are tired of running up YUCCA's kill streak. So they run. The others have figured out that working in groups makes for great success (ganging,hording, picking). The fix for this is not rules change of a new map or a new plane, or a two sided war...it's more people.
So what o do about it? GET MORE PEOPLE here and RETAIN them. Here's How:
1) Make the AH3 Arena's accessible to Game console players. Make a version that runs on X-Box, and PS4 that you can play with a game controller. It needs to become a mixed platform MMO because it needs to tap that humongous pool of gamers. 2) Develop an offline story mode with training. like many MMOs first you play through the story mode and it teaches you how to do what you'll need in the game. use the view system, set up controls, fly, gunnery, ACM, how to: take a base, bomb, etc...Completed the Stroy mode unlocks the $$Arenas (where you still have to pay the monthly fee). LEt's face it, there aren;t enough people putting the time in the Training arena anymore. You need to be able to train yourself. Story mode is how the rest of the successful MMOs do it.
3) Monetize achievements. If you earn achievement you earn a $1 or two credit off next month's bill. Then design the achievements to promote better game play. Many of them already are. The new generation loves that. (NOT ACHIEVEMENTS: winning the war, winning the tour, or any of the current scoreboard categories)
5) Make Skins and other customization earned. Lock all but default skins for beginners, then you unlock skins by earning achievements in the various planes. The new generation loves that stuff. The skins you paint your plane with tell everyone the level of things you've accomplished in that plane.
6) Drop death stats. Just count stuff you've killed or destroyed. Now how many times you've died doing it, or how many bullets missed their mark while trying.
Happy New Year. :salute
Here you go.... not just saying something is not exactly working right but also offering ideas on a fix. Food for thought. HMMMmmmm Distinct possibilities.
Happy New Year Vinkman <S>
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: whiteman on January 02, 2020, 02:34:34 PM
Excellent post Vinkman, you nailed today’s gamers.
Added: might consider adding perk bounus for completing achievements or in game missions set by hitech. Like bomb towns for 5 perks, bomb a fuel strat for 8 perks shoot down 5 planes in early war plane for 10 perks. Have them rotate every 24 hours.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 02, 2020, 02:50:26 PM
With all due respect Killroy, leave the Storches alone, they're not the problem. :salute :)
It's clear after 23 years of playing that the game has no designed purpose. It is a lab that has lots of ways to play, and lots of ways grade yourself. Really, how many people jump on everyday to help their side win the war? Very few. They may want to help take a base if asked, or if that's where the action happens to be, but most players are setting their own agenda, which makes the outcomes of any marco game stat chaotic. If the Bish are winning all the maps, it's because the Jokers are currently unchallenged at base taking. That is their personal squad goal. The game play numbers have fallen to where one good sized squad can dominate the macro metrics...winning the war. It's not because of some conspiracy or fundamental flaw in the 3-sided war concept.
Next, you have to stop blaming the reducing numbers on game play, or lack of change. A rules change is not going to make players enjoy the game more and play longer, and sign up their friends. players are leaving because we are all getting old. I'll wager this game has the highest average age of any MMO in the world today, and each year the median age goes up by one year. eventually age catches up with everyone, for various reasons, death, health, income...etc.
The numbers are reducing because: 1) WWII is now 70 year old event, and as such it is fading the hearts of each successive younger generation. so they aren't drawn to it like most of the 50+ year olds who play are/were. the Player base is aging, because younger players are not as interested in this genre as we were. Older players are...on the clock. Everyone will quit at some point.
*SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!!*
Stop right there.
WT et al. are wildly popular.
Quote
6) Drop death stats. Just count stuff you've killed or destroyed. Now how many times you've died doing it, or how many bullets missed their mark while trying.
Happy New Year. :salute
Bingo.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: puller on January 02, 2020, 02:52:49 PM
+1 on vinkmans post :aok
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 03:50:09 PM
The numbers are reducing because: 1) WWII is now 70 year old event, and as such it is fading the hearts of each successive younger generation. so they aren't drawn to it like most of the 50+ year olds who play are/were. the Player base is aging, because younger players are not as interested in this genre as we were. Older players are...on the clock. Everyone will quit at some point.
People keep making that assertion, but I have never seen any compelling evidence.
Millions of copies of IL2 BoX get sold every release. COD: WWII sold something like 20 million copies. Battlefield 5 was eagerly anticipated and even with it's technical and design problems sold 7 million copies in the first month after release.
I see no evidence that well made and smartly marketed WWII themed products have any particular hurdle with today's market. I doubt it ever will. It is an ideal combat genre that uses reasonably modern weapons without crossing over to the complexities of radar/lasers/electronics.
It kinda seems like excuse making to me. Like there is no point in trying to improve the game because these lazy youngsters nowadays won't care about WWII anyway.
2) This game is hard to learn. The view system alone is tough to master, then there's flying a plane. It's a simulator, not a button smashing video game. Then you have to learn ACM and Gunnery before you're effective. This means you need to come with a passion to wan't to be a great WWII fighter pilot/bomber/tanker or you won't stick it out. (SEE point #1)
IL2: BoX series is quite complex and sells millions. DCS is very complex and does not seem to have a problem making sales. There are many other games out there with quite large learning curves. The skill set may not be ACM, but that doesn't make them non-complex.
If the game blew peoples socks off, they would stick it out and learn to play it. If the game is designed right, even dying can be a blast. But revenge is always better. ;)
3) It takes a high end PC with some decent peripherals to play, making it a significant investment. With $400 PS4's out there that have a million multi-player games the competition is growing every year. And to date they can't play in AH3
I don't think the hardware is a huge problem unless you are doing VR. $1000 desktop rocks this game like a boss. Nothing is this game performance wise would prevent the millions and millions of PC players of IL2, DCS, Battlefield, COD form playing AH, if they wanted to.
1) Make the AH3 Arena's accessible to Game console players. Make a version that runs on X-Box, and PS4 that you can play with a game controller. It needs to become a mixed platform MMO because it needs to tap that humongous pool of gamers.
There is certainly a large console market. I just don't know someone playing on a XBox with controller would compete against Eagler with his VR and Thrustmaster HOTAS. You think that would feel like a fair gaming environment for console players?
2) Develop an offline story mode with training. like many MMOs first you play through the story mode and it teaches you how to do what you'll need in the game. use the view system, set up controls, fly, gunnery, ACM, how to: take a base, bomb, etc...Completed the Stroy mode unlocks the $$Arenas (where you still have to pay the monthly fee). LEt's face it, there aren;t enough people putting the time in the Training arena anymore. You need to be able to train yourself. Story mode is how the rest of the successful MMOs do it.
IL2 has slightly better graphics, but not anything out of the realm of what HTC might could do. IL2's FM and DM are not that different from AH. The big reason I believe that millions of people have played IL2 and almost no one has ever heard of AH is because IL2 has an offline campaign mode.
People keep making that assertion, but I have never seen any compelling evidence.
Millions of copies of IL2 Box get sold every release. COD: WWII sold something like 20 million copies. Battlefield 5 was eagerly anticipated and even with it's technical and design problems sold 7 million copies in the first month after release.
Not to mention Hitech himself said that he gets tens of thousands of people checking out the game on a monthly basis.
Popularity/Time-Passed-Since-WWII is not the issue.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: hitech on January 02, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
Then you have to learn ACM and Gunnery before you're effective.
It depends on goals. Rarely are fields captured by bringing great ACM or gunnery to the battle. They do provide additional options, but more often than not the most important skill is to predict what kind of plane or GV is going to be needed where, when, and with which load-out. And to do the right thing, which many people fail to (afraid of score, of dieing, not understanding what's going on, or unable to see hidden GVs, etc.).
Yes, the game is hard. But it's even harder when there's no reason die for. And no low-hanging fruits to pick.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 04:37:21 PM
He is might be referring to a quote of yours I have re-posted several times lately. Maybe this was during the Steam surge and is not representative of your current numbers.
In the last 100 days aprox 40,000 people have installed Aces High, 20,000 new people have created accounts and entered an arena. Of the people entering the arena 65% are gone and do never reenter by the 10 minute mark of being in the arena. 75% are gone after 30 Minutes. [...] The release a few weeks ago was a huge change to how the mouse system works, in an attempt to improve the 75% leaving before 30 minutes of play.
So were the new training video systems. Also not only about 15% of people who try AH have Joy Sticks. Right now Aces Highs biggest issues is conversion rates of players trying the game to players subscribing. For some reason I am not setting the hook quickly enough that a player is having fun when first trying the game.
We used to run between a 10 to 12% conversion rate from entering an arena to subscriber. My goal currently is to substantially raise my current conversion rate which is around 1%.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 02, 2020, 05:02:24 PM
Il2 has more gamers because of A. Graphics and B. It's a one time buy. Ie, no 2 week trial, you to buy it to try it. I tried IL-2 for a night. I was one of those who tried to play for 30 min and left. The main reason was because I was tired of trying to set up the Joystick and rudder peddles, my views were not working correctly, and I couldn't figure out how to enter the online portion and actually fly. There were only like 30 people online when I tried. I realised that being a 'newb' all over again wasn't as fun as I thought it was going to be.
I personally love the open map concept of AH, where you have to plan and strategize on how to go gain the advantage over the other planes.
I think having a story mode that vinkman recommended was a great idea. Xbox and Ps4 ain't gonna happen.
I think a lot of people are interested in aviation and WW2, but the biggest issue with AH is the time it takes to enter the fight and shoot someone. 2 weeks just doesn't give them enough time to understand the game. Nor have they paid a dime yet. Unlike Il2.
I can tell you from my IL2 experience that setting up controllers is such a giant pain in the ass. I can see the same happening for AH.
I hated War thunder. Lasted about 10 minutes there. Every plane felt the same to me. views sucked.
AH is the best one honestly, unfortunately it just has to small of a workforce to show enthusiasm for quick updates. and I'm pretty sure that Hitech is just about getting too old for this crap.
Players who don't have the patience aren't going to stick around. It's part of the ADHD generation.
That's why I've offered ideas like fighter bowls, FFA, teamdeath match to replace the match play, shorter bases and more maps. Just anything to get players into faster action.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Saxman on January 02, 2020, 05:04:53 PM
Don't mean to jump on ya but on this rare occasion I want to point out how mistaken almost all people on this board are about the dynamics of AH.
In the last 100 days aprox 40,000 people have installed Aces High, 20,000 new people have created accounts and entered an arena. Of the people entering the arena 65% are gone and do never reenter by the 10 minute mark of being in the arena. 75% are gone after 30 Minutes.HiTech
By my math that's 12,400 a month.
Has that changed?
I'm not nitpicking the numbers, in any case, as the point was simply that there are lots of potential customers out there.
He is might be referring to a quote of yours I have re-posted several times lately. Maybe this was during the Steam surge and is not representative of your current numbers.
If it wasn't that quote it may have been another, but it will definitely do. :salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 05:25:39 PM
However Offline Campaign =/= Offline You Have To Complete This Tutorial Before We Let You Play In the Big Sandbox At All
That was Vinkman's assertion, not mine.
You could do it that way though.
Millions have bought copies of IL2: BoX, yet everyone says online servers are usually sparsely populated. You can tell from Youtube the games are being actively played. That suggests to me that the market for guys who like to fly offline missions/campaign and blow stuff up is much larger than the guys who want to play competitively online. Either way, 1C Games gets their money up front.
Someday, I'd love to see HTC package it's tech into an offline stand-alone game like IL2 with missions/campaign to generate revenue, and each game includes a 1 month trial code for their online combat game, Aces High.
1C Games started their franchise with the IL2 ground attack aircraft; I'm thinking HTC should go with Stuka Pilot!
:D
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Saxman on January 02, 2020, 06:12:19 PM
Bleh. More ETO.
Call me when someone finally gets around to Aces of the Pacific 2.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 06:21:50 PM
"Cactus Air Force" (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Guadalcanal-Wildcat.jpg)
That would be an excellent one to start with considering the length and scale, especially if you include the ancillary carrier operations (Santa Cruz, Eastern Solomons, etc.). I've read quite a few very arguments that Guadalcanal was even more important than Midway (for one, the losses to Japan's experienced air crews were over stated considering so many simply jumped over the side and were rescued. Guadalcanal was the battle that truly ground them up).
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on January 02, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
That would be an excellent one to start with considering the length and scale, especially if you include the ancillary carrier operations (Santa Cruz, Eastern Solomons, etc.). I've read quite a few very arguments that Guadalcanal was even more important than Midway (for one, the losses to Japan's experienced air crews were over stated considering so many simply jumped over the side and were rescued. Guadalcanal was the battle that truly ground them up).
I could see a campaign spanning the initial early days of operating off a muddy pock marked runway under constant bombardment, out numbered all the way to the final mission of launching P-38's from Henderson for the Yamamoto hit.
It would make a great story arc.
:D
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Oldman731 on January 02, 2020, 08:39:13 PM
That would be an excellent one to start with considering the length and scale, especially if you include the ancillary carrier operations (Santa Cruz, Eastern Solomons, etc.). I've read quite a few very arguments that Guadalcanal was even more important than Midway (for one, the losses to Japan's experienced air crews were over stated considering so many simply jumped over the side and were rescued. Guadalcanal was the battle that truly ground them up).
This setup appears periodically in AvA. It works very well if you have a certain minimum number of people. When that happens, the Americans fly historically, that is, with wingmen, using B&Z tactics, and it's a competitive environment. If you don't have that minimum number, the Americans, flying Wildcats and P-39Ds against A6M2s and 3s, have an unpleasant problem (also historical). You always come away with respect for what the real US pilots were up against.
Agreed on importance of the battle. It was the death of the Japanese navy, and of its best (and irreplaceable) pilots.
- oldman
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Saxman on January 02, 2020, 08:57:01 PM
This setup appears periodically in AvA. It works very well if you have a certain minimum number of people. When that happens, the Americans fly historically, that is, with wingmen, using B&Z tactics, and it's a competitive environment. If you don't have that minimum number, the Americans, flying Wildcats and P-39Ds against A6M2s and 3s, have an unpleasant problem (also historical). You always come away with respect for what the real US pilots were up against.
Agreed on importance of the battle. It was the death of the Japanese navy, and of its best (and irreplaceable) pilots.
- oldman
Midway and Guadalcanal are a lot like Gettysburg and Vicksburg: The former gets all the press, but it's the latter that really won the war.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 09:12:05 PM
This setup appears periodically in AvA. It works very well if you have a certain minimum number of people. When that happens, the Americans fly historically, that is, with wingmen, using B&Z tactics, and it's a competitive environment. If you don't have that minimum number, the Americans, flying Wildcats and P-39Ds against A6M2s and 3s, have an unpleasant problem (also historical). You always come away with respect for what the real US pilots were up against.
Now imagine adding in the effects of maybe a couple of hours sleep a night, malaria, dysentery, near starvation diet....
And I complain if there is nothing good on TV. :O
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 02, 2020, 09:21:29 PM
That would be an excellent one to start with considering the length and scale, especially if you include the ancillary carrier operations (Santa Cruz, Eastern Solomons, etc.). I've read quite a few very arguments that Guadalcanal was even more important than Midway (for one, the losses to Japan's experienced air crews were over stated considering so many simply jumped over the side and were rescued. Guadalcanal was the battle that truly ground them up).
The Solomons Campaign as a whole is what did it, not just Guadalcanal.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 02, 2020, 09:48:23 PM
Besides all of the gaming of the game that doesn't seem to get mentioned in the "HTC won't do what I say" whines, the main thing that is speeding up the demise is all of the whining, back-biting and personal urination contests that go on in the forum. The forum is why I stopped playing a game that was just fine, despite all the people who decided that they knew better than Dale.
Copperhed-where u been-how are u doing.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: lunaticfringe on January 03, 2020, 07:53:56 AM
Kilroy the tree hugger, complaining about losing undefended bases, the bish are grand champions at that.
sorry Kilroy you lose again
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: lunaticfringe on January 03, 2020, 07:58:38 AM
just because you use a storch to look for gv's doesn't mean you gonna find it. with engine off sitting tight against a tree like Kilroy does almost never find-and if you fly too low you get main-gunned to death.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Harry46 on January 03, 2020, 10:57:56 AM
I'm not nitpicking the numbers, in any case, as the point was simply that there are lots of potential customers out there.
If it wasn't that quote it may have been another, but it will definitely do. :salute
As I said I never stated AH gets 10's of thousand a month. The quote you posted was simply what happened during the steam launch. I stated past 100 days. nothing to do with normal monthly trials.
And most people would take "I never stated this" by looking how they may have miss understood a post of mine, not be argumentative by trying to prove that's I said AH gets 10's of thousands a month.
And also trying to insinuate there may have been another time I posted it.
HiTech
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 03, 2020, 12:54:43 PM
As I said I never stated AH gets 10's of thousand a month. The quote you posted was simply what happened during the steam launch. I stated past 100 days. nothing to do with normal monthly trials.
And most people would take "I never stated this" by looking how they may have miss understood a post of mine, not be argumentative by trying to prove that's I said AH gets 10's of thousands a month.
And also trying to insinuate there may have been another time I posted it.
HiTech
I see. Well, then I was under an incorrect impression.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ACE on January 03, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
I think Hitech is doing a good job.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Softail on January 03, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
The Steam reviews I have read (and posted some time ago) have the same theme.
Paraphrasing a lot of them here:
I got into the game.....the screen went red...it went black....then I spiraled into the ground. No mater what I did....I crashed. Crappy game...don't play.
Or
Graphics are terrible....crappy game don't play.
Or
It cost's money to play....crappy game don't play.
Or
I up...I get destroyed...I up...I get destroyed....I quit.
etc etc etc.
So I think a LOT of the "new" players coming in are looking for more "arcade", less realism and easy-mode flying. If they don't become an Ace on their first flight....they quit.
This is just what I got from reading the steam reviews on AHIII. https://steamcommunity.com/app/651090/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_&p=1
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 03, 2020, 01:34:37 PM
The Steam reviews I have read (and posted some time ago) have the same theme.
Paraphrasing a lot of them here:
I got into the game.....the screen went red...it went black....then I spiraled into the ground. No mater what I did....I crashed. Crappy game...don't play.
Or
Graphics are terrible....crappy game don't play.
Or
It cost's money to play....crappy game don't play.
Or
I up...I get destroyed...I up...I get destroyed....I quit.
etc etc etc.
So I think a LOT of the "new" players coming in are looking for more "arcade", less realism and easy-mode flying. If they don't become an Ace on their first flight....they quit.
This is just what I got from reading the steam reviews on AHIII. https://steamcommunity.com/app/651090/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_&p=1
It's such a shame because most of the reviews are absolute garbage. Even the people comments about enjoying the game are missing so much. I never see any comments about special events like FSO and snapshots. Most of the reviews are by people who don't have a clue about the game.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: 100Coogn on January 03, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
It's such a shame because most of the reviews are absolute garbage. Even the people comments about enjoying the game are missing so much. I never see any comments about special events like FSO and snapshots. Most of the reviews are by people who don't have a clue about the game.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of those reviews are from previous players that have either been banned from AHIII or butthurt for some reason.
Coogan
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Wiley on January 03, 2020, 02:42:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that a lot of those reviews are from previous players that have either been banned from AHIII or butthurt for some reason.
Coogan
There were a few that said as much or were suspicious. Most of them looked fairly legit to me. My personal favorite was the guy that complained about getting disoriented and almost falling over while trying to play standing up with his Vive.
Wiley.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ramesis on January 03, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: svaalbar on January 03, 2020, 08:29:27 PM
Quote
So I think a LOT of the "new" players coming in are looking for more "arcade", less realism and easy-mode flying. If they don't become an Ace on their first flight....they quit.
I know that I was a bomber boy only for about 3-4 months when I first started the game because since everyone has been playing the game so long, I'd get smoked again and again and again when trying to dogfight. Only now I'm getting okay at it, with like a 1:2 K:D ratio.
If there was more noob friendly nights and coaching and such, that'd be cool. I remember in Aces High 2 there was just a pure furball server meant for noobs (I think).
Anyways, Oh Man I havent posted on a old school forum for a while.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 11:35:04 AM
If there was more noob friendly nights and coaching and such, that'd be cool.
But the TRAINERZ!!!
In all honesty. training is something that is needed on a steady basis in this game. I feel that if the "NEWB" participated in a mandatory hands on "Here's the stuff you need to know" type of mission prior to being released to the servers, especially the MA, it would go a long way with retention.
Quote
Anyways, Oh Man I havent posted on a old school forum for a while.
She's old school but she works, she could use a bit of a make-over.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: redcatcherb412 on January 04, 2020, 12:20:09 PM
I'm pretty sure that a lot of those reviews are from previous players that have either been banned from AHIII or butthurt for some reason.
Coogan
Or gotten in a tiff with a former administrator and just said not worth it and the heck with it. It happens Definitely a lot of ex subscribers in the steam reviews, more than new folks trying it out it appears, but a lot of the reviews seem to be newcomers without the patience to learn a few basics. Those I bet have probably tried a lot of games and given up after just a few tries. There are other games out there with a much longer and more difficult learning curve than this one that cost just as much or more to play.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: TheBug on January 04, 2020, 01:34:30 PM
People keep making that assertion, but I have never seen any compelling evidence.
Millions of copies of IL2 BoX get sold every release. COD: WWII sold something like 20 million copies. Battlefield 5 was eagerly anticipated and even with it's technical and design problems sold 7 million copies in the first month after release.
I see no evidence that well made and smartly marketed WWII themed products have any particular hurdle with today's market. I doubt it ever will. It is an ideal combat genre that uses reasonably modern weapons without crossing over to the complexities of radar/lasers/electronics.
Yet another new WWII game that is having no problem finding popularity:
BTW, I think this what a base capture should look like in Aces High. :D
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: morfiend on January 04, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
In all honesty. training is something that is needed on a steady basis in this game. I feel that if the "NEWB" participated in a mandatory hands on "Here's the stuff you need to know" type of mission prior to being released to the servers, especially the MA, it would go a long way with retention.
She's old school but she works, she could use a bit of a make-over.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink!
For years I spent most nights in the TA during primetime and I would say I was lucky if once a week someone would come in and ask for help.Mostly it was Morf's social club meetings,last year around this time I had some RL issues come up and had to step away.
I've checked into the TA a few times this past month or so and well it's usually MT so I just log off. I've flown a few nights in the MA and done a few FSO's lately trying to get back into the swing of things but it seems to me like there just isnt that much demand for training.
I'm sure there's plenty who need some kind of help,whether it's just simple setup and getting started or actual BFM stuff. I'm not sure what the answers are for this,although I think a more modern interface might help.
If a player wants help all they need do is ask.
:salute
PS: Maybe if the trainers could message across all the arenas like the CM's can that might help,at least they could announce they were available and in the TA.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: svaalbar on January 04, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink!
For years I spent most nights in the TA during primetime and I would say I was lucky if once a week someone would come in and ask for help.Mostly it was Morf's social club meetings,last year around this time I had some RL issues come up and had to step away.
I've checked into the TA a few times this past month or so and well it's usually MT so I just log off. I've flown a few nights in the MA and done a few FSO's lately trying to get back into the swing of things but it seems to me like there just isnt that much demand for training.
I'm sure there's plenty who need some kind of help,whether it's just simple setup and getting started or actual BFM stuff. I'm not sure what the answers are for this,although I think a more modern interface might help.
If a player wants help all they need do is ask.
:salute
PS: Maybe if the trainers could message across all the arenas like the CM's can that might help,at least they could announce they were available and in the TA.
Problem is I think a lot of people just want instant-ish action, without a long-ish (hour long+) tutorial. I was thinking of making some new longer tutorial videos around 5min or so. HiTechs videos on the main site are good, but too brief I think, around the 2min mark just chalk full of info.
I was thinking of making some videos like:
How to play (join arena, select base/team, and select a beginner plane - spit 14/16, mustang, etc)
Then maybe more videos like "how to find a fight. How to defend. How to join in an offense." etc.
Also maybe a basic map reading video. Then maybe another vid of "basic maneuvers in fights" - split S, immelmen, chandelles, etc.
heres an example video of mine, for a totally different game on how to mod it for example. its pretty short tho. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGXskcB8Li4
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CAV on January 04, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
Quote
I'm just curious, like which ones?
https://www.iracing.com/
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 04:52:02 PM
haha, so iracing is sponsored by a dozen or more huge corporations... .
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CAV on January 04, 2020, 05:14:36 PM
Quote
haha, so iracing is sponsored by a dozen or more huge corporations... .
For "Joe" online player it is still a steep & difficult learning curve, it too is $15 a month plus content and equipment... I am near $300 for track & cars. Plus a $450 wheel, a $400 brake set, button boxes, stick shift & a VR headset..... I play AcesHigh for pennies a day compared to iRacing.
CAVALRY
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2020, 05:15:28 PM
Problem is I think a lot of people just want instant-ish action, without a long-ish (hour long+) tutorial.
Of course they do. Can’t blame them. After all, people don’t pay to be bored. The problem becomes what to do with those who seek action but can’t even get the airplane off the ground.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: morfiend on January 04, 2020, 05:49:51 PM
How to play (join arena, select base/team, and select a beginner plane - spit 14/16, mustang, etc)
Then maybe more videos like "how to find a fight. How to defend. How to join in an offense." etc.
Also maybe a basic map reading video. Then maybe another vid of "basic maneuvers in fights" - split S, immelmen, chandelles, etc.
Videos are great for most of the things you mention but BFM vids leave a lot to be desired. You need some feedback,tips and encouragement while you attempt to fly BFM. While a vid may give you an idea how to do the maneuver and I often refer players to graphs of the flight paths,in my experience the player usually needs to be corrected.
Just the terminology alone can be problematic,whats the difference between a pitchback and a high yoyo? or a sliceback and a low yoyo?
Most new players have no idea about this stuff,they just try to keep fast and almost always turn nose down and find themselves on the deck at a disadvantage.
Clinics work pretty well but I always prefer one on one for whatever reason.I used to help other trainer put on clinics,be the bad guy or the target,whatever it took to help get the point across. So if you could do a clinic mission to teach BFM that might be useful. Not sure you could make the AI planes do whats needed as thats above my pay grade but if you could and add a voice over to direct a new player through the clinic/mission them maybe it could be done in offline and be less intimidating for a new player.
Again I dont have the answers just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks.
:salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 04, 2020, 05:52:35 PM
I have been playing Aces High since the first weeks of the Beta. I have spent 15 years playing the Battlefield series. The majority of my gaming has been those two games for the last 20 years.
In the whole, compared something like Battlefield 4, Aces High is no more complex, IMHO. Different skills and knowledge, but I've played both, it's not more complex.
The issue is that a lot less players have played other combat flight sims, and so many more players have played one version of FPS or another. So it is a lot easier for many to jump in BF4 and play well enough to at least have fun, than it is for many to jump into Aces High and enjoy it enough to stay past two weeks. It's harder for many to get up on the initial curve to start see the progress it takes to motivate them. However, to master both games and be a top competitor, takes about the same amount of skill and effort.
So that would explain why we have a hard time converting new players who come from a FPS or mouse flying background. It doesn't explain why we aren't converting the millions of IL2 players. The learning curve must not be the fundamental issue there.
:salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
For "Joe" online player it is still a steep & difficult learning curve, it too is $15 a month plus content and equipment... I am near $300 for track & cars. Plus a $450 wheel, a $400 brake set, button boxes, stick shift & a VR headset..... I play AcesHigh for pennies a day compared to iRacing.
CAVALRY
There is a large difference between a game that has no (correct me if I'm wrong) sponsors and a game with well known mega sponsors and a prebuilt fan base towards racing (nascar, sprint. rally etc...). racing is probably one of the most widely watched sports next to soccer and football.
WWII vehicle combat has a much smaller fan base and that fan base is divided between a couple of titles.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 04, 2020, 06:33:03 PM
There is a large difference between a game that has no (correct me if I'm wrong) sponsors and a game with well known mega sponsors and a prebuilt fan base towards racing (nascar, sprint. rally etc...). racing is probably one of the most widely watched sports next to soccer and football.
WWII vehicle combat has a much smaller fan base and that fan base is divided between a couple of titles.
Does that matter? The question wasn't about player base size. The question was about whether there were other games with complexity comparable to Aces High, right?
:headscratch:
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
There is a large difference between a game that has no (correct me if I'm wrong) sponsors and a game with well known mega sponsors and a prebuilt fan base towards racing (nascar, sprint. rally etc...). racing is probably one of the most widely watched sports next to soccer and football.
WWII vehicle combat has a much smaller fan base and that fan base is divided between a couple of titles.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yet I once read that airshows are the #1 Spectator Sport...
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 06:47:01 PM
Does that matter? The question wasn't about player base size. The question was about whether there were other games with complexity comparable to Aces High, right?
:headscratch:
It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle. There is a big difference... .
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 04, 2020, 06:54:49 PM
It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle. There is a big difference... .
That only affects the "on-ramp" on how easy it is for new players to start playing. That is only the initial complexity.
The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High? That would be max complexity.
I think there are games that have as much max complexity as Aces High, even though they require different skill-sets, and may have a better on-ramp.
:salute
Title: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
That only affects the "on-ramp" on how easy it is for new players to start playing. That is only the initial complexity.
The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High? That would be max complexity.
I think there are games that have as much max complexity as Aces High, even though they require different skill-sets, and may have a better on-ramp.
:salute
Ah, see it's part of the initial complexity that hand walks some to the exit. If you join Iracing, you may not be some super star racer but you won't be a complete fish out of water either.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 04, 2020, 07:19:20 PM
Ah, see it's part of the initial complexity that hand walks some to the exit. If you join Iracing, you may not be some super start racer but you won't be a complete fish out of water either.
Yeah.
Take Chess for instance. You can teach anyone the basic rules of movement in about 15 minutes. It's quite a bit harder for them to go on to become a World Grand Master. Initial complexity is fairly low, max complexity is extraordinarily high.
Some games, while having plenty of max complexity, enjoy the advantage of having sufficiently low initial complexity that there is a smooth on-ramp. Like you said, most people drive cars, most people have played FPS games along the way. Games like that let players jump right in and start seeing incremental improvement immediately. The come in with the basics baked-in and may play for days before starting to learn particulars. It was weeks before I ever started Googling info on BF4. I could pretty much wing it with reasonable success before that, from the second I loaded it up. However, consistently placing on the top 5 of the score board takes a lot more time and effort and learning and practice.
Probably a lower percentage of players trying Aces High have flown combat flight sims with a joystick. It's been a long time since the hey-days of AW. Other online games have become the norm. That's why so many never get off the runway.
Lowering the on-ramp for Aces High would help a lot.
However, there still must be other problems as well unless we think we have converted a high percentage of every IL2 player who has ever tried AH.
:salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CAV on January 04, 2020, 07:25:45 PM
Quote
It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle.
One would think it would translate well... but driving to the store for beer isn't the same thing as green flag pit stops at Talladega....in a crowd.
I have been playing Aces High since the first weeks of the Beta. I have spent 15 years playing the Battlefield series. The majority of my gaming has been those two games for the last 20 years.
In the whole, compared something like Battlefield 4, Aces High is no more complex, IMHO. Different skills and knowledge, but I've played both, it's not more complex.
The issue is that a lot less players have played other combat flight sims, and so many more players have played one version of FPS or another. So it is a lot easier for many to jump in BF4 and play well enough to at least have fun, than it is for many to jump into Aces High and enjoy it enough to stay past two weeks. It's harder for many to get up on the initial curve to start see the progress it takes to motivate them. However, to master both games and be a top competitor, takes about the same amount of skill and effort.
So that would explain why we have a hard time converting new players who come from a FPS or mouse flying background. It doesn't explain why we aren't converting the millions of IL2 players. The learning curve must not be the fundamental issue there.
:salute
Man you over think crap way too much. You must have a lot of time to burn. I'm looking for the games that redcatcher states are as complex and cost as much to play as AH. Hell I'd settle for the ones that just cost more. To "play" not have every bell or whistle.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: FESS67 on January 04, 2020, 08:13:10 PM
The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in iRracing than it does in Aces High?
No. The skill required to be a top talent in iRacing is more than required to be good in AH. The difference is that in iRacing you are ranked, sorted and matched into races that suit your skill level. In AH you are thrown into the pit with no regard to your skill level and are eaten by the sharks very easily. Not many people stick around for more and more of that.
I have cancelled my AH accounts and spending the money in World of Warships. Repetitive but fun and matched to ensure you do not get slapped about every match. Also, I wait no longer than 1.5 minutes for a fight to start. In AH I could fly for 15 minutes to then watch the enemy turn and run.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 04, 2020, 08:37:59 PM
Man you over think crap way too much. You must have a lot of time to burn.
LoL. Well, that's always possible.
It's also possible you don't think things through enough.
;)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
Quote
The issue is that a lot less players have played other combat flight sims, and so many more players have played one version of FPS or another. So it is a lot easier for many to jump in BF4 and play well enough to at least have fun, than it is for many to jump into Aces High and enjoy it enough to stay past two weeks. It's harder for many to get up on the initial curve to start see the progress it takes to motivate them. However, to master both games and be a top competitor, takes about the same amount of skill and effort.
Complexity aside, if the you can relate experience towards the game you have more fun as the basic fundamentals are known. Complexity aside, it boils down to experience, the complexity comes after learning the basic skills to at least start playing the game in a manner that translates to fun. Taking off and having control of your aircraft (without AP) is the first phase of fun that many have. Later comes dog fighting, bombing, attacking fields etc... . With out those basic skills, nothing else matters.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on January 05, 2020, 03:55:38 AM
Yet I once read that airshows are the #1 Spectator Sport...
Sports events are every week. Air shows are a lot more rare. Hence, more spectators at an air show. Run them weekly and everyone is going to lose interest.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on January 05, 2020, 04:09:42 AM
The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High? That would be max complexity.
There is a problem here. The word "top" implies a limited set of players. If a new player needs to join that group to have fun it is absolutely clear why there are no players. Just by definition only few can be "top" (based on the same metric, anyway).
Higher numbers are only possible if the game is fun without being part of that "top" group. The game can be fun without being the highest skilled 1vs1 fighter pilot. However, most of the instructions, training (as indicated by other posts including e.g. religious use of certain nomenclature, you-are-not-good-enough-to-provide-help, and similar) are limited to exactly that. Trying to get the player into that "top" group. Which, by definition, is only going to work for fewplayers.
Instead of explaining how to do somerhing meaningful (e.g. helping the country) considering the limited skillet of a new player.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 05, 2020, 08:54:41 AM
Sports events are every week. Air shows are a lot more rare. Hence, more spectators at an air show. Run them weekly and everyone is going to lose interest.
That doesn't change the fact of its popularity.
Not all sporting event are weekly.
Most sporting events are seasonal.
Air shows are still a major draw.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: redcatcherb412 on January 05, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
Being new and trying to get a plane off the ground in WW2 online is a real chore if you do not go through the tutorial. even their old tutorial can get you in the air fairly quickly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyrr1p9lBSU
My druthers are mainly Infantry and some Armor, haven't spent much flight time, but I rarely flew in AH either.
The Armor is like it used to be in AH, using multiple crew positions and having to change gears manually.
Biggest difference is the full tutorial on weapons/equipment use, movement and map use. If you don't utilize the tutorials and you're a newbie, the learning curve is way out there.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: TheBug on January 05, 2020, 01:03:54 PM
Being new and trying to get a plane off the ground in WW2 online is a real chore if you do not go through the tutorial. even their old tutorial can get you in the air fairly quickly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyrr1p9lBSU
My druthers are mainly Infantry and some Armor, haven't spent much flight time, but I rarely flew in AH either.
The Armor is like it used to be in AH, using multiple crew positions and having to change gears manually.
Biggest difference is the full tutorial on weapons/equipment use, movement and map use. If you don't utilize the tutorials and you're a newbie, the learning curve is way out there.
But it is cheaper to play, correct?
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: redcatcherb412 on January 05, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
It has some bare bones subscriptions, but the standard to unlock all the equipment is 14.99 to 17.99 per Mo. so fairly even. Graphics are more AH2 level.
Comraderie at the squad level is good, but the side level (axis/allied) doesn't come close to AH because the lack of in game voice comms which requires using discord for even squad comms. Dogfights and furballs are rare there compared to AH, but it's a whole different game dynamic, so no real comparison between the two.
Both games have pros/cons. I play WW2 primarily for the infantry which is not an AH feature.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: TheBug on January 05, 2020, 02:01:54 PM
:salute Thank you.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: CptTrips on January 05, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
Being new and trying to get a plane off the ground in WW2 online is a real chore if you do not go through the tutorial.
It doesn't have to be easy there. Ww2ol can hook players by activities that are easy to get into. Those are not only fun, but help to understand the war that is going on. When a player with no prior experience in games with planes there is some motivation provided to learn: To help with the war the player was taking part in before on the ground.
In AH there's basically no introduction to any of the underlying concepts. Whatch the video to get your plane in the air. Great. And then? Find a trainer to learn more. Yeah, but why? Why shoot anything down? Why take any "risk" to get shot down? It is impossible to "win" a furball, and there's no reason for a furball either.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Tumor on January 06, 2020, 01:49:13 AM
It dies because HiTech never followed through with Submarines.
If only there were Submarines!
:devil
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: AKKuya on January 06, 2020, 07:42:55 AM
While there is some contradiction between score and playing/dieing for the team objective, the bigger contradiction is between team objective and what would be the normal
Spot On! What drives the things you mentioned, (killing wounded, empty buffs, etc) personal score. It seems to be the biggest motivator in the game. Even though it is a team based concept, it seems most are just worried about two things, first, their score and that’s okay. You will notice this at a deacked vase with no attempt to take, just vultures waiting for an upper. Then they RTB with “so and so of squad Vulchers just landed 7 kills in vehicle whatever. How would you solve that with coding, would you want to? The solution, up somewhere else, simple. The second is ego. This is exemplified in getting that dude no matter what, he just killed me, or bombed my strats or has been flashing the base for an hour etc. is there a solution to this, yes. Will it happen, no!
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: diaster on January 08, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
Quote
But I have it on good authority that it is the same.
HiTech
Therein lies the problem then. The paradigm has shifted and the game has not. Software, coding, etc. has improved, vehicle added, sucky sound system implemented true but It has not evolved as a game. That is why number are declining. If you look at anything else, cars, phones, planes, computers, other online games and so on, they all update/adapt, as the customers have evolved so have customer expectations. Example, Things like flying off the map or bomb and bail are relatively easy fixes but remain as is. As the players learn to “game the game” the developer owes it to his user base to fix that, it seems to work for flight sims, 1st Person shooters, MMO, etc. imho anyway
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on January 08, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
funny in the last two or 3 weeks that I have played, I was the only one that went off the map. 1 i couldn't help it had problem with stick, other 2, strats are so close to edge if map you can't help it.
as for bomb and bail, I hardly see that. but let's change the code to not allow bailing. ok then just point your nose down till parts fall off and you become a missile. ok code that too so you can't dive to fast, now you have a fun way to dive bomb, imagine dive bombing a CV from 20k. ok code that too. now you just ruined the advantage that lets say b26s have to get away fast.
see my point? code can have some changes you may not like while trying to fix something that rarely happens.
semp
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: hitech on January 08, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
funny in the last two or 3 weeks that I have played, I was the only one that went off the map. 1 i couldn't help it had problem with stick, other 2, strats are so close to edge if map you can't help it.
as for bomb and bail, I hardly see that. but let's change the code to not allow bailing. ok then just point your nose down till parts fall off and you become a missile. ok code that too so you can't dive to fast, now you have a fun way to dive bomb, imagine dive bombing a CV from 20k. ok code that too. now you just ruined the advantage that lets say b26s have to get away fast.
see my point? code can have some changes you may not like while trying to fix something that rarely happens.
semp
Easily fixed. You dive away until your wings come off and I get a kill when you hit the ground. Works for me. :aok
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on January 08, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
Easily fixed. You dive away until your wings come off and I get a kill when you hit the ground. Works for me. :aok
After the drop, both bomber and interceptor can bail. Or disassemble their planes. Neither of their deaths, or getting kills, or not getting killed helps their respective countries in any way, shape, or form. What helps their countries is to get home early, to do something meaningful next. Getting home early means dieing quickly when in a useless state and/or location.
The problem is that a coad change that would make not bailing, not dieing, killing, or getting home would help the country, would cause people to want to die even less. And the consequence of that seems to be obvious.
Seems unsolvable.
(maybe not unsolvable, but complicated: Add an option to control a 2nd plane while on a safe home trip (2nd plane killed automatically when the safe home trip is no longer safe / ends by death). This would mean that by surviving as much time is saved as by bailing after being done with the meaningful part of the sortie.)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Hajo on January 08, 2020, 09:24:16 PM
If I may add my two cents here, since I quit playing a couple years ago and being in AH since it's inception almost 21 years ago and playing Air warrior before that. 21 years is a long time and if you participated in Air Warrior before that you would be talking at least well over 20 years. When AH was first introduced, those of us who were playing Air Warrior and other boxed sims were intrigued and wanted to take a look at AH. The difference in graphics and flight modeling were night and day. That induced many of us in Air Warrior to come to Aces High and subscribe. Not to long after that EA discontinued Air Warrior and many from Air Warrior came to Aces High to participate. We saw the toys and what more could be developed to make the game better physically. We were only to happy to pay 30 dollars a month to play. Selection of aircraft was marvelous. The game modeling made it much closer to "real" flying then Air Warrior and the graphics at that time were undoubtedly better then Air Warrior. Boxed Sims were at the end of their heyday. They were fun to play but very expensive to develop. Flight Simmers were and are a very small niche in the gaming market. The money spent on developing a great boxed sim was a great deal more then the profits that were to be made from developing and selling them. They generally lost money on them and just flat out quit producing anything more for the flight sim market. Remember also in that era a great many of us were children of the "greatest generation." Our parents and relatives unfortunately had to participate in WWII. The stories we were told, the movies that we saw that were made in the late 40s' up until the late 50s' about the air war in Europe and in the PAC intrigued us. My father, who was on the ground in Italy, talked about dogfights that he and his fellow soldiers witnessed while in their foxholes. He remarked a lot about seeing P38s and 109s swirling in the air above them and watching P47s dive from the sky to take out infrastructure before them as they were fighting towards Rome. When a 38 knocked out a 109 my father said he and the guys would jump up and cheer the 38 Pilot for his victory. He also noted formations of bombers flying overhead on the way to northern Italy to destroy the German Army and its' positions knowing full well that the bombers success and the fighters escorting them were doing the same thing. Trying to destroy the Nazis and make their job a little more easier.
Now, as years pass society changes. It's natural. Back in our first years of Scenarios in AH we had a great number of participants. The older of us loved to participate in them. We knew about those conflagrations. Our Fathers and Mothers and Uncles etc. lived it. We were told first hand how it was at that time. Not only about the War but about life back here at home at that time. So us older gents had opportunity to imagine ourselves in the seats of these aircraft during these battles. Pretending to be Bomber Pilots and Escorts. Trying to emulate and feel what our Fathers must have felt at that time. It's not a coincidence that Der Groose Schlag and Der Groose Schlag II were the most populated events in Aces High Scenarios. Imagine in a Sim, in a 47, 38, and a Mustang escorting 40 to 60 B17s and 24s' with at least 40 t0 50 escorts seeing this in your virtual cockpit. And listening to the voices over the radio the professionalism and accuracy of the radio chatter when all hell broke lose. All while sitting at your desk, with your headphones on and in the virtual cockpit of a P47. For us "Olduns" it was heaven for at least 3 hours no matter how much one got to fly in combat. We were doing what our Fathers or relatives did, or neighbors kids were the same way. They was a generation of us that actually got word of mouth first hand accounts of what really happened. Also in DGS there were three FULL Bomber squadrons up with escorts over Germany at the same time heading to their objective/objectives. In DGS there were at times clouds over the targets that obstructed the view of the target, and the whole set of escorts and Bombers had to set out for the secondary target. How much fuel did the escorts have? That was always a question. This placed the participant right in the seats of the Pilots who actually flew combat during these missions in real life over Germany. How could us "Old Simmers" not love this.
Today as society has changed, as it will, a generation or two have gone by since Air Warrior. Hell, there are people who deny the Holocaust ever happened or the landing on the moon. It's simply society that has changed. Everything evolves. It must. There is no blame to be brought. Even those of us that are Boomers are now passing. I'm seventy years old and have lost many of my friends already. Can't be helped. Humans have a shelf life also. So, hopefully this explains why some of the old guys have left. Again, no blame on anyone. At one time when we ruled the skies of Air Warrior and Aces High, Scenarios and immersion were they key to our participation. It placed us in the virtual skies of WWII. That's why we paid 30 dollars a month to play. A tip to all, take it for what it is worth. Don't ever blame a CM if you didn't have fun, or the person who stepped up to lead your side. They shared their personal time so you could participate. It is much harder to design a scenario now as most of us know because of the low interest of the Community in such events. Maps are far smaller and choice of targets are limited and now easier to defend simply because of the low numbers of participants. Give the CMs' and leaders who volunteered their time to lead the props they deserve. They are giving of their free time to do so when they could be doing other things.
I apologize for making this long of a post. I've seen topics on the subject of "the game is dying" for the last ten or so years of this wonderful game. Suggestions on how to "improve" the game out the ying yang and the insults that inevitably result, which doesn't solve a thing. The tools are here. aircraft, ground vehicles, Carriers etc. Use them. Hitech has given us a wonderful game. Figure out how to use the tools.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vertico on January 09, 2020, 01:19:24 AM
Hi. This game dies because: You are not "hungry anymore". And how could you?. Most players are , sry , but they are old and for ages with this game. So day in and day out its always the same story, no real challenge anymore. And fpr many it became a ego shooter . To be number 1 on the score list is the goal. And yes, war's are won by numbers.Nothing else. Its frustrating to see how bases are taken because you dont have the men to defend them.And the obligatory WTG on that is a joke. Capture a deserted base is like stealing sweets from a toddler. I dont have the ultimate solution for all this . And i doubt that someone is looking for one.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: mora on January 09, 2020, 02:30:34 AM
I do not know how much participants there are in the scenarios. I looked at the calendar and saw some events. All were for squads only. So apparently it's a no go for me. I cannot join a squads, because I do not have the possibility to dedicate myself into squad activity. I can play, but when the wife ack calls it's alt+x or triple enter. Maybe a 2 hour event every 2 weeks could be different. Back in the day walk inns were allowed, and I believe it worked fairly well. So if there is lack of attendance, please consider this possibility to boost the numbers.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: ccvi on January 09, 2020, 03:10:24 AM
I do not know how much participants there are in the scenarios. I looked at the calendar and saw some events.
The bbs needs a button "report to Lusche" next to the report to mod button.
Lusche, can you please create a chart showing the ratio of scenario vs MA numbers? In year x this % of players in scenario / MA / both? Not absolute numbers but relative.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: FLS on January 09, 2020, 06:37:29 AM
I do not know how much participants there are in the scenarios. I looked at the calendar and saw some events. All were for squads only. So apparently it's a no go for me. I cannot join a squads, because I do not have the possibility to dedicate myself into squad activity. I can play, but when the wife ack calls it's alt+x or triple enter. Maybe a 2 hour event every 2 weeks could be different. Back in the day walk inns were allowed, and I believe it worked fairly well. So if there is lack of attendance, please consider this possibility to boost the numbers.
Walk-ins are welcome to the FSO events as well as scenarios. Squads include married people and are familiar with wife ack. You may not fit in every squad but you'll probably be fine in most of them.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Max on January 09, 2020, 07:02:01 AM
Walk-ins are welcome to the FSO events as well as scenarios. Squads include married people and are familiar with wife ack. You may not fit in every squad but you'll probably be fine in most of them.
For the Friday night Squad Operations ( FSO), walk-on's need to be invited to fly with a FSO squadron or picked up by one before the scheduled FSO frame starts....fso events are "FSO squadron" based events! Has nothing to do with MA squads, and if you are new to FSO, you will be helped in finding a FSO squad to participate with....
For Scenarios, walk-ons are welcomed and will be placed in any available open slot, depending on where the CM hosting the Scenario needs you...so walk-ons most times don't get to choose what plane type or what side they want to participate on.... This is why it is always best to register for the scenario, if a player is interested in participating in it, so you can lock in your spot for the plane & side you want to play on.....Scenario events are opened for everyone
Edit: KOTH events are open to everyone, all players are welcome to come participate.... (except for the KOTH TOC - "King of the Hill Tournament of Champions" event, held once a year for those who have earned an invite by qualifying by winning a monthly KOTH event or earning a "Wabbit status" in any of the past year's monthly KOTH events)
Combat Challenge event - squadron based dogfighting event...
iirc, all other events are opened to anyone and don't require being in a squad....
Hope this helps
TC
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: FLS on January 09, 2020, 09:48:30 AM
Good points TC. :aok
If you want to be an FSO walk-on it's a good idea to post in the FSO forum prior to the event.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Hajo on January 09, 2020, 11:43:06 AM
If you want to be an FSO walk-on it's a good idea to post in the FSO forum prior to the event.
Doesn't this kind of defeat the point of "walk on"?
I realize that all of the special events run on volunteers and everybody is a critic so please don't take offense with what I am going to say. At this time the Halcyon days of hundreds and hundreds of players are past. Special events have become a little obscure and maybe it would help to be able to have some way of bringing in the uninformed and unprepared who are online at the start of FSO or a similar type event,(remember the "snapshot" events?) in order to get more participation in/exposure to what is routinely called "the best part of AH." I don't mean that you should fix what is already working but rather that maybe the "marketing" of special events and what is contemplated to offer might benefit from a rethink.
Right now when I log on a see a lot of arenas that don't really spark interest. Maybe if you chopped anything that isn't active out so your choices were distilled and you had an arena that was called "Thursday Fight Night 9pm" and had something like the old snapshot with a smidge of AI to fill in the ranks as necessary, and then a frequent MA reminder that at that time that day there would be a mission with goals and risk available, if you made it a regular thing maybe you would get more participation and exposure to that side of AH. Not every player likes FSO and Scenario, many find them boring, however their structure and risk are reasonably potent for a fair number of people.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Shuffler on January 09, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
I was Corkyjr's XO and a 38 driver in DGS. Nothing compares since. Simply amazing.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: FLS on January 09, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
No, it just accommodates the difference between certain events.
There is some kind of miscommunication here. I am using walk on in the sense that you can show up without prearrangement and join in the event. Is this or is this not the case with FSO. I am under the impression that it is not.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 09, 2020, 08:27:29 PM
There is some kind of miscommunication here. I am using walk on in the sense that you can show up without prearrangement and join in the event. Is this or is this not the case with FSO. I am under the impression that it is not.
It was the case when I signed up for it. Very accommodating crowd.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: AKKuya on January 09, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
For the Friday night Squad Operations ( FSO), walk-on's need to be invited to fly with a FSO squadron or picked up by one before the scheduled FSO frame starts....fso events are "FSO squadron" based events! Has nothing to do with MA squads, and if you are new to FSO, you will be helped in finding a FSO squad to participate with....
For Scenarios, walk-ons are welcomed and will be placed in any available open slot, depending on where the CM hosting the Scenario needs you...so walk-ons most times don't get to choose what plane type or what side they want to participate on.... This is why it is always best to register for the scenario, if a player is interested in participating in it, so you can lock in your spot for the plane & side you want to play on.....Scenario events are opened for everyone
Edit: KOTH events are open to everyone, all players are welcome to come participate.... (except for the KOTH TOC - "King of the Hill Tournament of Champions" event, held once a year for those who have earned an invite by qualifying by winning a monthly KOTH event or earning a "Wabbit status" in any of the past year's monthly KOTH events)
Combat Challenge event - squadron based dogfighting event...
iirc, all other events are opened to anyone and don't require being in a squad....
Hope this helps
TC
Have you been flying FSO lately? There are players who show up with no squad. CM setups and bouncers are not turning them away. We are typing "X pilots out of uniform". If they are walkons, then the squad COs are inviting them into their squads.
FSO is for registered squads and not registered players like Scenarios.
From the FSO Rules at ahevents.org: No walkons will be allowed on the day of the event. Any individual pilots wishing to participate must pre-register with squadrons or contact the squadrons ahead of time, not in the minutes before the frame, or in the SEA before the start of the frame.
This was when we had 400 plus pilots and it made things go smoother. Now, we are much smaller in number of participants. Let's say that the Rule isn't strongly enforced. There is a little wiggle room for last minute arrangements.
Just any player not in uniform after Fields Open will be grounded until under a squad's colors before Fields Closed.
I hear what you're saying. The CMs can discuss some rewording of the Rules. Can you start a thread in FSO forum on this topic and see where the FSO community stand?
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: FLS on January 09, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
There is some kind of miscommunication here. I am using walk on in the sense that you can show up without prearrangement and join in the event. Is this or is this not the case with FSO. I am under the impression that it is not.
You're using a narrower definition of walk-on than I am. In FSO a walk-on is a person who is not a regular squad member.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Molsman on January 10, 2020, 12:24:08 AM
When I was a CM for FSO Walk one where really not Allowed. There was usually a pre arrangement made before the take off time if A CO wanted to take them on for that event . Maybe times have change and FSO is allowing walks ons now but it used to never be like that before
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: pembquist on January 10, 2020, 12:29:19 AM
You're using a narrower definition of walk-on than I am. In FSO a walk-on is a person who is not a regular squad member.
OK, so lets clarify this. A player who shows up in the FSO arena with no prior contact will a place be found for them or will they be turned away? AKKuya seems to be describing a situation where they will not be turned away. If true, despite the inconvenience, this is good. A player new to the whole concept would get to sample it and a player like me who doesn't know till the last hour whether or not they can participate will show up if they can. If this is not the case, no problem, but it really needs to be clarified I think.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: guncrasher on January 10, 2020, 12:46:07 AM
have been with some many years, never seen a guy turned away.
if enough time given, somebody always picked them up.
semp
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vraciu on January 10, 2020, 04:36:51 AM
OK, so lets clarify this. A player who shows up in the FSO arena with no prior contact will a place be found for them or will they be turned away? AKKuya seems to be describing a situation where they will not be turned away. If true, despite the inconvenience, this is good. A player new to the whole concept would get to sample it and a player like me who doesn't know till the last hour whether or not they can participate will show up if they can. If this is not the case, no problem, but it really needs to be clarified I think.
AFAIK a person who makes prior arrangements to fly the event but is not a regular squad member is still a walk-on. If there is another term for that situation I haven't heard it.
FSO has an administrative rule that is not currently enforced. My statement that "Walk-ins are welcome to the FSO events as well as scenarios." is currently accurate. My statement that "If you want to be an FSO walk-on it's a good idea to post in the FSO forum prior to the event." is also accurate.
I hope that clears things up.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Spikes on January 10, 2020, 08:45:36 AM
OK, so lets clarify this. A player who shows up in the FSO arena with no prior contact will a place be found for them or will they be turned away? AKKuya seems to be describing a situation where they will not be turned away. If true, despite the inconvenience, this is good. A player new to the whole concept would get to sample it and a player like me who doesn't know till the last hour whether or not they can participate will show up if they can. If this is not the case, no problem, but it really needs to be clarified I think.
By definition Walk-ons are not allowed in FSO. FSO and Scenario are pretty organized and many expect other pilots to know what is going on. Squads and pilots are held to a pretty high standard in this regard.
In days of old if you showed up on game-night in FSO you could not ask in Country/All/200 to find a squad, it had to be pre-arranged. This is still the case but we are much more lenient on it. Squads are free to take pilots in but that squad is responsible for their behavior and getting them suited up and in the correct aircraft. If you are not in uniform by launch time, you are grounded for the event.
Scenarios also require pilots to be in squads for log purposes, however it is somewhat less of an issue as flight is always open for the entire frame and people come and go. Hence why walk-ons are allowed.
FLS is right - best practice is to get it pre-arranged as early as possible. This is good for both the squad and pilot as it is less hectic close to launch time.
I may think about re-wording the rule on the FSO Rules page to better clarify for the times. :salute
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2020, 08:51:04 AM
Both definitions are correct they just vary in scope.
though one is more accurate than the other by definition but is still very subjective to the situation.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 10, 2020, 12:51:53 PM
Have you been flying FSO lately? There are players who show up with no squad. CM setups and bouncers are not turning them away. We are typing "X pilots out of uniform". If they are walkons, then the squad COs are inviting them into their squads.
FSO is for registered squads and not registered players like Scenarios.
From the FSO Rules at ahevents.org: No walkons will be allowed on the day of the event. Any individual pilots wishing to participate must pre-register with squadrons or contact the squadrons ahead of time, not in the minutes before the frame, or in the SEA before the start of the frame.
This was when we had 400 plus pilots and it made things go smoother. Now, we are much smaller in number of participants. Let's say that the Rule isn't strongly enforced. There is a little wiggle room for last minute arrangements.
Just any player not in uniform after Fields Open will be grounded until under a squad's colors before Fields Closed.
I hear what you're saying. The CMs can discuss some rewording of the Rules. Can you start a thread in FSO forum on this topic and see where the FSO community stand?
AKKuya, I think you did not pick up on what I wrote regarding new players to FSO.....
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Rich46yo on January 12, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Myself I just quit gaming, as in altogether.
I never understood why the crowds left because I always thought the game upgrades just got better. Its very smooth running software and you dont need a $10,000 machine to run it.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: diaster on February 21, 2020, 11:55:34 AM
...The forum is why I stopped playing a game that was just fine, ...
That is pretty pathetic.. They are not codependent in the least. I visit forums maybe 20 times a year I play the “game” may 20 times a month. In my 11 years, neither seemed to affect the other in the least.
Perhaps you a snowflake type? If so, H.T.F.U. See below, I do have the patch by the way :)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: nkp514 on February 21, 2020, 12:12:23 PM
Kilroy, You are the problem.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: diaster on February 21, 2020, 01:02:13 PM
He did shoot me through a thick Bush plus 2 stands of palm trees and I was at his 2 O’clock. In the film review his gun was pointed 12. For the life of me, I don’t understand how some of these people can see you (much less one shot you) and no matter how hard you look you can’t see them (much less even hit them) lol. I reckon I will just HTFU and figure it out :)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Hotstuff on February 23, 2020, 02:30:20 PM
I never understood why the crowds left because I always thought the game upgrades just got better. Its very smooth running software and you dont need a $10,000 machine to run it.
I think part of the problem is that there are too many games out there for people to get distracted with. Having a 20 year multiplayer game still going is an accomplishment in and of itself.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: The Fugitive on February 23, 2020, 09:10:39 PM
He did shoot me through a thick Bush plus 2 stands of palm trees and I was at his 2 O’clock. In the film review his gun was pointed 12. For the life of me, I don’t understand how some of these people can see you (much less one shot you) and no matter how hard you look you can’t see them (much less even hit them) lol. I reckon I will just HTFU and figure it out :)
To me, there seems to be a couple issues with the code. I still havent seen a fix for the "guy who can shoot through buildings" that was posted a while ago. On the other hand, I have had a few guys take me in hand and showed me "how" they did what they did. It takes a lot of practice, much like learning to win a turn fight in an airplane. Learning "where to park" , how to hide, and how to aim.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Puma44 on February 24, 2020, 10:17:32 AM
To me, there seems to be a couple issues with the code. I still havent seen a fix for the "guy who can shoot through buildings" that was posted a while ago. On the other hand, I have had a few guys take me in hand and showed me "how" they did what they did. It takes a lot of practice, much like learning to win a turn fight in an airplane. Learning "where to park" , how to hide, and how to aim.
It would be nice to have all of that in a tutorial. I’ve always wanted to know how I get shot by someone I can’t see from any of my view positions, etc.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: bustr on February 24, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
There are game overlay programs like HUDSite or Recursion Tracker that will keep a permanent reticle in the center of your screen. Then you can shoot from commander mode looking farther out and over many things. Then you can see other tanks faster and hit them sooner.
Here is a reticle I use in another game with HUDSite to keep it permanently in the center of my screen. I've zoomed it up by 400%. The layer the reticle sits on is transparent so only the reticle show's in the game. These overlays have been around at least for the last decade. I found a few of the screen capture\film programs used to capture game film have the option to place a cursor on your game screen.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkGLc8q5/devastrl5.jpg)
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vulcan on February 24, 2020, 10:49:27 PM
It would be nice to have all of that in a tutorial. I’ve always wanted to know how I get shot by someone I can’t see from any of my view positions, etc.
Someone was getting smashed on the weekend, there was a map that didn't have as much of the "optional" foliage that favours certain players. A few of us were having a great laugh as he kept getting owned.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: bustr on February 24, 2020, 11:00:06 PM
Was that the one with all the fjords where I used a tree tile with 70% less trees and placed all the spawns 1 mile from each other? I was aiming for that kind of ground game so more players would be able to get a few kills versus the well known few who have mastered the trees as thick as a sheep's winter coat.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: Vulcan on February 25, 2020, 01:48:44 AM
No idea, It has a reasonable amount of trees - just not the ones that go all the way to ground level with foliage.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2020, 11:27:21 PM
Could be Riftval or FjordMA. I used trees on rift that don't go to the ground and on Fjord.
Title: Re: This Game Dies Because
Post by: SAAMIAM on February 26, 2020, 12:14:10 AM
HTC refuses to adapt. When AH first came out, it was unique enough, that you could make your own rules and players would have to conform to play. Some of the rules were obvious, "a video game has to be widely appealing and easy to learn." Another rule, game developers follow, is to "never allow groups to fall into rivalries, lest the infighting eclipse the game." I also develop game content, that's how I knew how to make those skins. here's an image of one of my developments.
Forgive me for not finishing your entire thesis on why you want to kill this game. May I suggest you climb down off your high horse for a bit and play? In all that analysis and self & bish are the greatest stuff I didn't hear you hear you mention VR one time. Or the fact that Dale has somehow managed to elevate Aces High IMO far above the competition by providing the community with a sandbox mmog that plays near flawlessly in VR AND NonVR. Or how about the fact that Dale has integrated the use of native vr controllers better than anybody else in the industry? You are a game content creator. Awesome, super proud of you. If you don't like the current game mode of the Melee Arena, then why don't you put those game content creation skills to use and create the game mode you want or feel would be what everybody else wants and launch an Arena of your own? Set it up and invite the community and see how much consensus you have. Am I not correct in saying that every single player in Aces High can create an arena, taylor make the environment, set the rules and parameters? I'm a noob here, just 1 year bud, but turning 50 in April, Ive got 43 years video gaming and I like the tri lateral perpetual battle of domination. Im also a rook and I very much like the dudes I fly with and against. I find it almost comical the way you arrogantly drop the Bish name so matter of factly as if I am supposed to bow and say Im not worthy.. This game is not going to die my friend, in fact, just the opposite. This game is about to blow up and spearhead the next evolution of Esports with VRBattleSports. I had been searching for exactly this type of fast gameplay, smooth VR, welcoming community, diverse role opportunity for AcesLeagues for 3 years. I feel that instead of being so sure of your self about the death of Aces High, you Thank Dale like me. Moreover, take a step back and ask yourself what you can learn from the genius that created this Masterpiece.
Respectfully Submitted Founder Jeff aka SAAM I AM
2020 $100,000 World Cup Dogfighting Championship VRBattlesports Launch June 2020 Only on Aces High Oculus/USAF/AcesLeagues/Top Gun 2 registration opens March 2020
Your solution to the polarity of rivalries appears to be the introduction of a triad and a mild incentive to change allegiances, through imposition of ENY. Despite the reluctance of most players to change countries, to address the ENY dissatisfaction, you maintain the position that the only valid way to alleviate the dissatisfaction, is to change and since you've done all that is necessary, any additional dissatisfaction, is the fault of the player. So the country rivalry remains and you refuse to do anything further about it. In the old days, you could maintain your artificial environment, but now that more and more games challenge the appeal of AH, the only thing you have left to sell to me, is the community, which these policies impact.
So now we get to the state of these rivalries. When I first joined, the Rook country got all the heat. As a Bish, we considered the knight country to be the proxy of the Rooks and we would win maps, if the end rivalry between the two giants, allowed us our opportunity. Somehow, that greatness got transferred to the Bish. Bish wins more maps, consistently, over the past several years, than the other two countries combined. It is why you have nerfed our ammo. Attribute it to a strong weekday presence, skills, whatever. I personally don't think wins, in and of themselves, are a big deal. The game is about war fighting and a win is an obvious goal. However, it is ALWAYS achieved by the number of focused players and ENY has only a nominal effect on that. Winning a map is not a consequence of great tactical prowess, it is a consequence of numbers involved. That is how it is supposed to be. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be perceived that way. For whatever reason, other subscribers really seem to begrudge those 25x3 perk points. Over the years, this rivalry grows, astonishingly, unchecked by HiTech. There are players in each country, solely dedicated to making the lead country, currently Bishop, fail, or lose, or maybe die? They seem very dedicated. You have players, calling themselves hero's, openly and vocally opposing specific squadrons in other countries, and what, HiTech, this is all part of the game? And the noobs think, what?
Your policy of governance seems to be complaint based. "Oh, the resupply dweebs are ruining the war fighting experience, remove the m3!" "Oh, the hidey tanky things are ruining the war fighting experience, give us a screaming obnoxious storch, that we can hound and harass and generally limit the war fighting experience, since our skills prevent us from doing so directly." Storches literally stop the fight. As soon as one ups, most tanks go into hiding and stay until it leaves. As to governance, you just leave these situations, until another slew of complaints motivates adjustment.
FYI, the storch SUCKS. You need to limit the storch to 15 minutes fuel, or something. It does not speed up the battle, the instance of people hiding tanks, is wholly eclipsed by people upping storches to harass tankers, presumably because they can cause the tank player to lose score, while suffering very little risk - which brings us to the biggest problem of the game.
Rather than celebrate the virtual nature of internet gaming, you have actually hypersensitized the fear of death. The biggest problem with the game is the fear of death. You've created a venomous environment of reputation. You have players that consider themselves to be elite, who's highest goal is to record a kill without dying and you mix that with a very complex system of scoring, which I did not understand for YEARS. I did not understand, why, when we almost have a field, all the skilled players stopped helping. They did so, because the scoring system incentivises personal reputation over war fighting goals. It is actually a negative scoring system (it penalizes a player for dying, rather than celebrating the players achievements). As an example, I will fight mightily, during a base take, killing several opponents and leveraging the take, before I die. I should be rewarded equally. Instead, a defender who manages a kill and lands, before the field is lost, will earn a higher score. That does not incentivise engaging the game, it incentivises taking advantage of someone else engaging the game - and that kills new recruits.
Now I'm going to focus on that whole reputation thing, for the one or two of you still reading. We've entered a new chapter of the game, where the numbers have fallen to the point that a country is not represented, at all, but the game continues. Twice over this holiday season, I've joined the game in the morning after one of these sessions - and I've been appalled. This time I'm calling you on it. Countries should not be allowed to capture beyond the required 20%, there should be a penalty for "gouging." This was our gift for Christmas Day: (https://i.imgur.com/vDB9tchh.png) In this next case, the map is 7 hours old, as of this morning. Obviously a crew of freaks went around taking unopposed fields. This is not war fighting, think about it, it is wrote dropping guns, running troops. It is all about imagining the effect it will have on a perceived rival, later. Arguably more work, than game. This is toxic, it kills new accounts and I can't believe I have to make a complaint to get this to your attention.(https://i.imgur.com/AyIds68h.png)
I perceive push back and it's understood all opinions are valid. It's anticipated that people will have personal perspectives. You'll want to agree, or couch dissent in terms that relate to attendance. Gather evidence of surging subscriptions, etc.