Author Topic: Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.  (Read 6003 times)

Offline Curval

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2004, 08:19:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pei
Is it possible to have lots of guns around and a low crime rate? Yes: look at Switzerland where almost every house has a gun (because the men of the house are required to serve in the army). But I would suggest that has more to do with cultural factors.


wow..Great post Pei.  Even for a rugby lover like yourself.  ;)

Just an observation on the above:

The Swiss don't take crime lightly and perhaps the presence of guns in every home does prevent burgalries.  But, I remember a bank robbery that occured there a few years ago.  The cops followed the getaway car until they had a good clean shot at it, and just simply opened up on the car with automatic weapons.  No questions, no mercy.

The Swiss are calm gentle folk...right up until you piss them off.

Hey...just ask the Vatican.
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Offline beet1e

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final analysis
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2004, 04:59:33 AM »
This for me has been an interesting thread. Dowding might be amused to know that I got the idea for this thread from an interview between Robin Day and Arthur Scargill many years ago. Day asked Scargill (miners’ president) to describe his vision of utopia. And then, turning to his audience of several hundred, asked who would like to live in Scargill’s utopia. I think only one or maybe two said they would.

We’re all aware of crime levels in various countries, and we’ve all seen what happens in countries like America when guns are made freely available. A homicide tally of over 10,000 some years – 13,000+ in 1992 – with the vast majority of these homicides being carried out with handguns. (I appreciate that shovels/cars/knives could also be used, but a gun is just so much more effective and convenient, and can achieve results at long range.) That compares with fewer than 100 in any year in Britain, where we have the same social/ethnic difficulties as America, and drugs/gangsters to go with it. But we have relatively few guns – hence the disparity in our homicide stats.

A lot of people in the US crow about being able to get guns when folks in other countries cannot, so I wanted to know who would if they could. I got a couple of YES votes from Germany, but ALL the other voters were against unrestricted gun sales in their country, whether that be by quantity or type of weapon.

List of countries with people who voted NO to an unrestricted supply of guns
  • Bermuda
  • France
  • England (and Wales)
  • Finland
  • Spain
  • Poland
  • The Netherlands
  • Italy
  • Iceland
  • Germany
  • New Zealand
  • Norway
  • Argentina
  • Australia
  • Belgium
There’s also a vote from Takeda – not sure which European country he is from.

What’s almost as interesting is that in a thread that was clearly intended for non-Americans and people living outside the US, two of the three people who posted the most times in this thread are diehard pro-gun Americans. Wonder why that is. :lol;)

« Last Edit: February 07, 2004, 07:33:52 AM by beet1e »

Offline Saintaw

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2004, 05:01:51 AM »
Like Dowding:
Unrestricted - no.

Licensed - yes. (we already have that)
Saw
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Offline Saintaw

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2004, 05:05:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
It's all privately owned by toffs in patched-elbow jackets.


LOL
Saw
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Offline -tronski-

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2004, 06:53:00 AM »
Pei said it all....

No for the record on unrestricted (totally agreeable with dowding's no/yes)

 Tronsky
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Offline lazs2

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2004, 10:46:33 AM »
beetle... the whole pole is silly beyond words....

I don't believe that you will find anyone who would want totally unrestricted ANYTHING including firearms, or sex or drinking rights or anything.

I for instance would not like to see mentally unfit people or unsupervised children have "unrestricted" firearms rights so... by your defenition I would also be in your camp.

When I read the results I see that most people want to have some, and in a lot of cases, even more gun rights.

My poll asks if you would like more or less restrictions in your country and is by far a more fair poll.

lazs

Offline beet1e

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2004, 11:01:22 AM »
Lazs - if my poll is so silly, then why have you posted in this thread more times than anyone else?

Seems clear to me that everyone understood the question I was asking. It was a simple question requiring a simple answer. I got the information I  was asking for. What's silly about that? You're the only one who's had to resort (twice) to a discussion which boils down to semantics.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 11:18:21 AM by beet1e »

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2004, 11:25:34 AM »
No...but have a couple of buts to add though...

Offline Curval

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2004, 12:02:15 PM »
lol Lazs.

Your poll thread has more Americans posting about gun-show "loopholes" than non-US responses.

Nothing but Americans slapping each other on the back and praising each other for their posts.

Bettle's post almost stayed right on track.  It would have been precisely on track, but you and Rip (and a few others) had to stick your noses in and tell those of us who were supposed to reply that less guns equals more crime.
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Offline lord dolf vader

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2004, 12:29:47 PM »
one more american texan for unrestricted gun ownership.

and right to conceal carry.


the reasons and motivations are many and complex.


first people shoot each other all the time here, always have, there are so many guns here you could never get them all in 100 years.(a firearm basicly lasts forever if cared for and maintained) it would be pointless to try.

also americans will not give arms up. i would resist with deadly force as would alot of people both liberal and conservative. we were raised to believe this was both our right and responsibility. remember tirants are inevetable, history teaches us that and i will not leave my children a legacy of freedom or not live at all.

the cold dead hands thing is no joke, im a left wing buddist and id kill to protect my freedom overrides all  think about that for a second. dosent seem incongruous at all to me.

Offline Curval

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2004, 12:47:13 PM »
LDV...no one is asking you to give up anything.

Check the title of the thread again.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline lord dolf vader

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2004, 01:18:31 PM »
i understand that i was just trying to give you guys an incite to the way we think. sorry i know it is out of the scope of the thread but 40 posts into it and it has wandered all over hell anyway.

ill butt out. but will point out there has never been one totaly on topic thread on this board ever.i mean ever... why the constant attempts ill never understand. its unnatural.

Offline Curval

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2004, 01:59:48 PM »
True enough mate...I guess my post sounded more agressive than it was meant to be.

Thing is...you didn't really say anything we non-Americans don't already know.

Beetle may have his own agenda to try and convert your opinion to his on this issue...I don't know.  Not so with me though.  I just don't particularly like being called "woman-like" or my government called a "Nanny" government and will argue my country's case against gun ownership.

Of course this immediately gets me labelled anti-gun.

As a result I have been called many things...including "snotty" and irrelavent by some very moral upstanding American citizens.  Funny, because I am not trying to tell anyone how they should act or feel...but I am constantly told I am wrong...or worse.

That is hypocritical.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Toad

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2004, 02:02:23 PM »
Curval, you over-nannied woman! Go buy a gun!








;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Simple question about guns for non-Americans and people living outside the US.
« Reply #89 on: February 06, 2004, 02:03:21 PM »
Quote
im a left wing buddist and id kill to protect my freedom



Is it just me?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!