Author Topic: Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?  (Read 3150 times)

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2004, 04:24:20 AM »
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Congrats, Nilson. Your the first person I've ever put on my ignore list. Though I like reading opposing opinions, your either a kid or a troll, and I can't be bothered with either.




Do me a favor, when you visit the US again, Nilson...

Don't.


I guess its hard to face reality.

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2004, 04:27:32 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
My understanding of your qestion was what would the west do if they were al qaeda.
 


Then you got it wrong. If the "western" world wanted to attack the muslim way of life and culture the "west" would attack symbolic targets.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2004, 04:32:44 AM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Then you got it wrong. If the "western" world wanted to attack the muslim way of life and culture the "west" would attack symbolic targets.


So you are saying they attacked us because of our love of freedom, democrcay and markets?

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2004, 04:41:22 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you are saying they attacked us because of our love of freedom, democrcay and markets?


Why do you think they targeted the pentagon, the worlds financial center and possibly the white house?

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2004, 04:47:09 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
That part you got wrong Nilsen. Al Quada is not attacking the western "way of life", they probably couldn't care less how we live. Al Quada wants to stop the western influence in the Middle East, particularly the foreign troops in Saudi Arabia and support of Israel.

What some describe as envy of western wealth and freedom is a fallacy. The masterminds of Al Quada are men who until recently lived in such luxury, wealth and freedom you and me can only dream of. If anything they are trying to protect their freedoms from western influence ... freedoms like oppressing women, family run governments etc. Al Quada's goals are far more selfish and far less "noble" or religious that what they may seem like to their followers and enemies alike.


Yes, and how would they best acheive those goals? By killing the most americans or destroying the symbols of that wastern culture that they want remove?. The symbols themselves are prolly not that important to Al Q, but the effect of targeting them is what they are after. You can call it a very powerful message.

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2004, 04:47:59 AM »
double post

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2004, 04:48:16 AM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Why do you think they targeted the pentagon, the worlds financial center and possibly the white house?


The Pentagon (symbol of US militry evil) was an easier target than white house (symbol of US democracy - "the people's house").  Thats why pentagon was hit - according to 911 report.

The pensylvania plane  was aimed at Congress, a big sign of freedom and democracy.

Basically you are parroting the Bush line, that they hit us because of our love of democracy and freedom....

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2004, 04:51:35 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats why pentagon was hit - according to 911 report.


If the 911 report concluded with this then how come its all over this thread that killing the most people was the goal?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2004, 05:19:27 AM »
Youre the only one who came up with the idea of killing the most people as the main goal...  Its a strawn man argument...

The main thing I have been arguing is the fact that Al Qeada clearly intended to kill thousands of innocent Americans on 911. There were tens of thousands in those buildings...

For some reason you seem to be very uncomfortable with admitting that.

As for symbolism, even on 911 everyone on TV was saying how WTC and the other targets were symbolic. Thats obvious, do you want some nobel prize for that discovery?

What I'm more concerned with is your need to downplay the deliberate murders of innocent civilans as some some sort of bonus or even collateral.

Is it a part of you trying to equate the 911 attacks and the US military operation in Iraq?


"When american/coaliton attack planes bomb possible saddam sites its an attack on the saddam regime even if alot of civilans are killed. The fact that the US forces killed alot less civilians are due to the advanced weapons you have. The pentagon was also a target, and do you think it was targeted to kill as many civilians as possible? No, it was also a political target."


Up in that quote you seem to be saying that the target buldings were the main targets and that the civilans were merely uinitended accidental victims of crude al qaeda weapons.

That really disturbs me Nilsen...

In your eyes it seems the USA is only different from Al Qaeda in the weapns they use...

Very sad Nilsen, I'm very dissapinted...

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2004, 05:24:42 AM »
Oh my...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2004, 05:26:16 AM »
Did I misread what you wrote?

"When american/coaliton attack planes bomb possible saddam sites its an attack on the saddam regime even if alot of civilans are killed. The fact that the US forces killed alot less civilians are due to the advanced weapons you have. The pentagon was also a target, and do you think it was targeted to kill as many civilians as possible? No, it was also a political target."

Tell me how to interpret this stement correctly?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2004, 05:29:53 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Staga, please remove that picture before Skuzzy does it for you ... and bans you.

>>>

The sad part is that Nilsen is right and you all don't get it. The WTC and Pentagon were fitting symbolic targets for what Al Quada considers powers that meddle in Middle Eastern affairs, and people from 80 different countries were killed in the terrorist attacks. The WTC was a major centre of international commerce, including oil trade. A coincidence? I think not. The buildings themselves and what they represent was the target ... the people were just a bonus.


You too Gszolz...  How on earth should one interpret that?  

"the people were just a bonus"

Maybe you should tell those families that...

Offline Nilsen

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2004, 05:33:15 AM »
I can't help it if you see red when i say blue grun.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2004, 05:43:32 AM »
"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."

Three guesses as to who issued this fatwa?


But yes Nilisen I agree this is largely a matter of perspective, I take this 911 attack very personally. In part because it showed me how impermenant the things we take for granted, in part because I feel very strongly for the opportunities and gifts this nation gave me - including citizenship and freedom - and perhaps very personally because I was almost there on 911 myself. On september 9th I had an opportunity to fly to new york and I know that the WTC was a place I would have visited fore sure and probably in the morning. Thankfully i did not go.

Take that as dramatics or not but I will telly you that I did not think on Spetember 10 that somebody might want to kill me, that changed on 911, bigtime.

Maybe you dont feel that personally for whatevewr reason but I do and I'm very sensitive to this issue. I take it personally, just as imagine you take certain things personally.

So thats why I really object vto this idea of "bonus" victims, its clear from Bin Laden's fatwa above that he wants to kill americans. Obviously the targets were symbolic but the people were very real.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Al-Jazeera: Terrorist Mouthpiece or News?
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2004, 06:05:15 AM »
Im a nostalgic type so I appreciate the symbolism of buildings as much as anyone.. But my perspective is this, those guys deliberatly planned to kill tens of thousands of innocent people.

I'm not finding it as easy as you to say they were merely targeting a bulding.

When you were in Bosnia did you just think the refugees were merely victims of serb hunger for land, for a "greater serbia", or did you see it as something more, as that they were victims of a deliberate genocide attempt?