Author Topic: Netherlands Euthanizes Babies  (Read 3268 times)

Offline NUKE

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2004, 12:45:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Funny how some folks can't help themselves from taking an issue and framing it liberal vs conservative.

You don't know jack **** about it and all you ever want to do is argue for argument's sake. It's basically why you got booted.

From euthanasia to liberal/conservative to nuke/nash. blah.

laterz


Liberals are for abortion and euthanasia, yet Liberals are the ones who claim to be for human rights.

And I got booted for making a personal attack against Gsholtz.

Nash, are you pro abortion? Are you Pro life?

I bet you can't answer those two questions honestly without looking like an idiot.

Ask me my views and I will tell you straight out.

Offline Thrawn

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2004, 12:59:22 AM »
"The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best."


Doing it without the parents concent is absolutely unconscionable.


NUKE

"Liberals are for abortion and euthanasia,"

What a rediculous sweeping generalisation.  This liberal is not for unrestricted abortion, or euthanasia.

Offline capt. apathy

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2004, 01:09:55 AM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
Liberals are for abortion and euthanasia, yet Liberals are the ones who claim to be for human rights.


and cons are pro-life but also pro death penalty.  against gov't intervention in your life but against the right to choose to end your own.  for a group who claims to want smaller less intrusive gov't, it seems odd that they fully encourage killing people if you can put enough red tape around it, but not in the case of a personal choice.

then there is the whole issue of the republicans big pro-states rights, while against the feds butting in,  but then they are fighting like hell against state decisions to allow assisted suicide, and improved medical options for patients (read- medical pot, and the allowing these 'free-market' policies to apply to meds).

it's hilarious reading your implications that it's liberals who are so conflicted.  why not both party's?  the Conservatives make more sense?  the parties are equally fluffied up.

  on just about any issue I can think of they take opposing views.

  think that one through for a second. . . .   if you think the other guys views are inconsistent, and your side takes the opposite view of them on every issue, then by definition you are every bit as mixed up as he is.

Offline Sixpence

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2004, 01:23:06 AM »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline -dead-

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2004, 03:58:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
I think that "euthanization" of "terminally ill" children to be at best barbaric, and at worst an attempt to play God.  Who is to say these children will not recover, or that a cure will be found?  Sounds to me that this is more of a state sponsored way to save money as opposed to caring for these poor souls.

for some reason the passage,"forgive them oh Lord, they know not what they do" is running through my head as I type...

Sad day indeed that any would consider the euthanization of any human being.
I think keeping people in pain and unecessary suffering to assuage some sort of personal religious guilt trip or principle is the barbaric option.

As to "playing god" - I call hypocrite: any medical treatment that saves a life is as much "playing the gaseous vertebrate of astronomical heft" as euthanasia. Who is to say the people treated weren't meant to die?
 
Keeping some poor kid in agony on the "off chance" they may develop a cure (it takes about 10 years for a cure to get to the "can be used on patients" stage) is just cruel. The options are realisitically: should we kill the kid now or torture them for a while until they die?

It's always puzzled me how the right wingers on this board are all so gung ho about protecting the unwanted/disabled/terminally ill babies and unborn, although they don't seem to want to spend a penny on looking after them once they grow up. I'm not sure what the cut-off age is.

It's even more puzzling in light of their support of the Invasion of Iraq, with it's attendent slaughter of thousands of civilians and the US-led sanctions that supposedly led to death of thousands of Iraqi babies. Surely a bunch of people that justifies the killing of so many on such flimsy pretexts should be able to righteously rest easy over the thought of a few more babies killed for a good cause?

And in the end if Euthanasia requires the parent's consent, you can still implement the drawn out torture you desire for your loved ones, if when it actually happens you have the stomach for it.

I've seen the results, I've looked into one of my family's eye as he desperately wanted out, but the good Xians of the hospital and the government kept him alive in unfathomable agony for three long, awful days to salve their precious little consciences. That, my dear Bodhi, is barbarism.

There should always be options available, and they should all be out in the open. Because real life events never seem to fit those off-the-peg moralities and ethics.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 04:09:28 AM by -dead- »
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Offline Vulcan

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2004, 04:20:59 AM »
I wonder if any of those posting here about this 'barbirism' are the same people aspiring to keep the US out of Iraq or other dictatorships such that people like Saddam could've continued on. Wouldn't that be ironic... ie jump up and down about a Doctor letting a terminally ill child in massive pain die peacefully versus lets let a dictator who gasses his own people go on unimpeded.

Offline deSelys

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2004, 04:47:35 AM »
Great post, Dead.

To all the 'I have morals when it suits my agenda'.... a vibrant <>.
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Offline Momus--

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2004, 05:10:55 AM »
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Originally posted by deSelys
Great post, Dead.


Agreed, it was spot on.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2004, 07:52:46 AM »
Awesome Cpt. Apathy and Dead! My thoughts exactly but you guys write it ohhhh so much more eloquently.

Offline lazs2

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2004, 08:29:19 AM »
probly if they can't survive on their own then they should be allowed to die if that is the parents wish.... or.... euathanized if their heads aren't square enough.

lazs

Offline DREDIOCK

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2004, 08:59:35 AM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
My lot?

You have no clue what I think.


After reading some of your posts on the matter and to mine in particular. On this matter Im not entirely positive you "think" at all

 But to respond to your post.
 IF said persons hip couldnt be repaired/replaced and leaving them  that way would leave them in nothing but excruciating pain for the rest of their lives, then my answer would be,
Yes. if thats what they wanted.

But we're not talking about things that can be cured or repaired. We are talking about the hopeless.

This whole "Playing God" routine is nothing more then rhetoric.

 We "play God" every day by artifically keeping people alive and suffering no matter how hopeless the situation that "God" would otherwise let die.

If we didnt "play god" we wouldnt do anything one way or the other.

and lets be real honest for a second here.
 We dont keep these people alive for them. It isnt about  them at all
 We do it for ourselves.  Because WE cant bear the thought of letting go of these people even if it is hopeless and no matter how badly they may be suffering.
 

We make these decisions for animals because they cant make it for themselves.
 But we dont show the same mercy, the same...Humanity to humans when they cant make that decision for themselves.
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Offline Eagler

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2004, 09:10:11 AM »
it's just abortion taken to the next step..

just a "choice" right??

not murder or anything ..... just a "choice"
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Offline Fishu

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2004, 09:13:15 AM »
If the law only allows it to be done in extreme cases, then it seems like a fine system to me.
I wouldn't wish to see my child suffer for the whole life, which could be at the best couple of years, while unable to do or realise anything.
It'd be like torturing to keep the child in life support or other extreme devices, which doesn't help the child to live any longer or better.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2004, 09:14:19 AM »
Just for the record. lest anyone try pinning one of these moronic  conservative or liberal lables on me

Im pro mercy, on this subject.

 Im Pro Iraq

Pro Death penalty in cases where guilt is undenyable

And I wouldnt say I am pro abortion but I would say I am pro choice.
That is leaving it up for each individual to decide even though for myself personally I wouldnt advise someone else to do it.

Im also for keeping the word "under god" in the pledge and on our money.

Im against affermative action but for fair and equal treatment for all reguardless of race.

Im against political correctness and for free speach

Im against obscene TV programming during prime time hours but for free speach and beleive pornography falls under that catagory

As someone sle mentioned, Nothng is ever black and white. this or that.

What is needed is common freaking sence which is the least common of the sences I ever see used
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 09:31:08 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Netherlands Euthanizes Babies
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2004, 09:16:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
it's just abortion taken to the next step..

just a "choice" right??

not murder or anything ..... just a "choice"


right its a "choce" between mercy and sadism
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty