Author Topic: Question to Finns  (Read 25173 times)

Offline Siaf__csf

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Question to Finns
« Reply #990 on: April 01, 2005, 08:04:06 AM »
Raven first from your own quote: beginning to catch up. Clue 1.

1939 = not 20 years ago. Clue 2.

Russian car is a synonyme for outdated technology. Clue 3.

Pick any of those and you already have a clue.

But you got to understand Raven really, if he lives in far east part of russia, they don't have any western countries nearby where he could have seen the reality.

If you live in russia all your life and believe the propaganda, you become raven. It's not his fault really.

But Toad was 100% right when he said this reminds us what we're facing with since the legacy of the communist regime still lives strong.

http://digilander.libero.it/cuoccimix/ENGLISH-automotorusse-chinesecars.htm

Even though China is grossly overpopulated and low-standard of living producer of bulk products, it too manufactures several automobiles. Just like Russia (and probably any other communist state) it copied western designs since nothing in communism supports development.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 08:08:19 AM by Siaf__csf »

Offline Despair

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« Reply #991 on: April 01, 2005, 08:12:30 AM »
As for China, most American economists predict that Chinese economy will be No 1 in not so distant future. Prolly most of the clothes u wear now is made in China.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 08:15:01 AM by Despair »

Offline Raven_2

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« Reply #992 on: April 01, 2005, 08:24:17 AM »
Boroda, can you translate this for our american friends? It`s beyond my knowledge of english language.

Quote

[ Оптимист ]   кто из нас brajnwashed?   01-04-05 15:55   
Ответ на Ответ из EVIL :
С Америкой что-то не так. Эта страна живет в долг. Очень, очень большой долг. Причем в долг она берет, не чтобы производить, а чтобы потреблять. Вот откуда высокий уровень жизни.
Здоровая ситуация, характерная для быстро поднимающихся людей, фирм и стран: потребление ограничивается до уровня гораздо более низкого, чем он мог бы быть, чтобы инвестировать, и еще берется кредит, чтобы инвестировать. В Америке все наоборот.
Американцы частично потеряли свой бизнес в конкуренции с японцами и китайцами, частично продали арабам и тем же японцам. А сами набрали кредитов, чтобы жить в больших красивых домах и ездить на больших красивых машинах. Это показное и очень ненадежное благополучие. Впечатление такое, что никто в американском высшем руководстве не знает, что делать, и живут либо по принципу "после нас хоть потоп" либо в надежде "мы такие большие и важные, что китайцы, арабы и японцы не дадут нам умереть". А кое-кто толкает идею - давайте всех кинем, мы самые сильные, нам можно. Думаю, именно этим и закончится эпоха американской гегемонии - банальным пошлым кидаловом всех, кто поверил в надежность доллара. Фактически, кидалово уже произошло - ведь долги США, номинированные в американской же валюте, "похудели" в полтора раза за последние годы, по принипу "всем, кому должен, прощаю".
Может, я тоже brajnwashed, но есть факты, с которыми не поспоришь:
- огромный и все увеличивающийся платежный дефицит
- огромный и все увеличивающийся дефицит бюджета
- огромный и все увеличивающийся долг населения
- практически нулевые сбережения населения
- падение обменного курса не то что по отношению к евро и иене, но даже к таким скромным деньгам, как наша гривня.
Очень нездоровая ситуация. Я вот избавился от долларов - нах. такую валюту. Лучше все в бизнес. Или если надоест крутиться - в недвижимость.
У нас может Пинчука и посадят, а в России Ходорковского уже посадили, но в целом ситуация зеркально противоположная американской
- платежный профицит
- профицит бюджета (правда Украина уже живет с дефицитным бюджетом -скоро опять выборы, будь они неладны, правительству нужны голоса пенсионеров)
- потребительское кредитование мало развито
- быстро растут сбережения населения; люди заработанное не тратят на внедорожник Ford с шестилитровым движком, чтобы на нем ездить на работу целых два года до кап ремонта, люди несут деньги в банк, чтобы банк выдал кредиты на производство
- обменный курс растет
Слушайте, уважаемая ответ из Evil, найдите-ка пожалуйста статистику, каков процент американских домохозяйств, чей equity за вычетом кредитов меньше, скажем $1000. То есть отрицательный, нулевой или положительный до одной тысячи долларов. Я точную цифру видел, но не помню. Почему-то уверен, что он будет очень большим, может быть, больше 50%. А у нас в Украине, и в России тоже, абсолютное большинство семей имеют equity больше $3000, может быть даже больше $5000. Потому что у нас все ВЛАДЕЮТ своими квартирами и машинами, и не спешат брать в долг.
АУ! Подавляющее большинство из нас богаче подавляющего большинства американцев. Уровень жизни ниже, потому что живем по средствам, а не в долг.
Я тут на соседней ветке распинался про то, что высокий относительно доходов уровень потребления характерен для бедного, а высокий уровень сбережений - для богатого. И это действительно правда.
Так кто все-таки brajnwashed???

Offline Raven_2

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« Reply #993 on: April 01, 2005, 08:32:40 AM »
to Sciaf

>>Raven first from your own quote: beginning to catch up. Clue 1.

Begining to catch up in 1939. And outperformed in 1945.

>>1939 = not 20 years ago. Clue 2.

Can`t find later stats in english. Still, there is stats in russian :-)

>>Russian car is a synonyme for outdated technology. Clue 3.

So what? And I can say that Europe military and space program were piece of **** comparing to soviet.

How can you base your opinion about whole economic onto one thread only?

You wanna say that every Europe country has developed automobile industry?

>>But you got to understand Raven really, if he lives in far east part of russia, they don't have any western countries nearby where he could have seen the reality.

:-) We closer to USA and Canada than Europe. We very close to Japan.

to Despair

>>Prolly most of the clothes u wear now is made in China.

Bah. Clothes... Turn around your mobile phone, TV or something "Manufactured in China"... BTW, did you know that big part of IBM is now China property?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #994 on: April 01, 2005, 08:48:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2
And why you ignore my words about Rudi Arnstadt killed three days before that by western border guards?
[/b]

I didn't ignore it. I was waiting for YOU to explain how "right " it is that 171 people were killed or died attempting to escape at the Berlin Wall between August 13, 1961 and November 9, 1989.

CIVILIANS killed by their own government just for wanting to live somewhere else. How do you justify that? Yet it was your dictatorial, tyrannical Communist system that made killing their own citizens if they tried to leave a policy.


Quote
There is a monument to victims of the Wall in Germany. 24 names on it, AFAIR. 16 killed by easterners and 8 by westerners.
[/b]

16 by East Germans? You ARE delusional. Do some research.


Quote
Bah. To say that East Germany had government like in USSR it`s equal to say Iraq has government system like in USA.
[/b]

So back in the good old days anyone could leave the USSR anytime, right? Permits to leave forever were easy to obtain? :rofl

Don't you think it odd that EVERY Commie country had to make extreme attempts to keep their citizens from leaving? Cuba and East Germany are the two most obvious examples.

All the Commie governments the Soviets installed in East Europe were a direct reflection of the Soviet government, so yes, East Germany had a government just like the USSR.

 
Quote
They just follow they orders. I wonder why there were prosecuted at all. Someone, who really need to be prosecuted is their chief. Or someone higher.


Thank you! You just used the Nazi Nuremberg excuse, pointing out once again how similar you are.
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Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #995 on: April 01, 2005, 11:01:21 AM »
Raven don't believe the BS your government has been putting you up to. Anyone (and I mean anyone) could clearly see the huge gap in the standard of living and the level of technology. Not only could, still can.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #996 on: April 01, 2005, 11:31:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Raven don't believe the BS your government has been putting you up to. Anyone (and I mean anyone) could clearly see the huge gap in the standard of living and the level of technology. Not only could, still can.


Siaf, you back in this thread!

Frankly speaking - I was afraid that you got injured when your Scheissenwerfer exploded... It definetly was overheated. How do you cool it down?

I understand that you have a technologically perfect German rapidfire design, but can you share your experience? ;)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #997 on: April 01, 2005, 12:43:29 PM »
Scheissenwerfer?

Now THAT is one area where the Soviet Union obviously outperformed every other nation.

The USSR always had the world's greatest Scheissenwerfer athletes in the world. In both individual and team competition, they out threw every challenger.

At least the remants of THAT Soviet glory have not faded. Oh, no, my friends.... that tradition lives on.

The proof is right here in this thread.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #998 on: April 01, 2005, 12:56:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Scheissenwerfer?

Now THAT is one area where the Soviet Union obviously outperformed every other nation.


Sorry, I still use old bolt-action 1891/30/83 model, it lacks the performance (rate of fire and salvo per second) of Western models, but it's reliable and especially good in close combat :D

I refrain from using new GG-85 ("Govnomet Gorbacheva, 1985 model") because it usually fires at the shooter, but I admit that it's rate of fire is better then newest Western models. But it's accuracy isn't as good as latest American M1999 and M2003A2 models...

Siaf obviously uses M1952A5, it's an American copy of German SW-38 with improved political safety switch. This model is well-known for overheating that sometimes causes explosions.

I declare April Fool ceasefire, will answer your posts tomorrow ;)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 01:01:14 PM by Boroda »

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #999 on: April 01, 2005, 02:24:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2
to Simaril


They were mostly "Whites" (ex-tzar` officers). There a lot of book on this subject - it`s not an easy matter. Historians still discuss on that - one side argue that this was stupid decission, while others argue that there were a lot of documented treachery incidents from their side.

 




You know, we had a civil war too. Ours was 50 years or so before yours, and we therefore had more excuse for barbaric behavior.

And our leader's attitude toward the rebels?

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

The president of the rebel forces -- our "White Russians" -- was briefly jailed, tehn released and spent the remainder of his days free. He was also free to speak in opposition to the government, which he did often without being punished.  Generals who violated their oath of loyalty to the Union, and fought courageously against the army that trained them, were left free as well. One (Longstreet) became the ambassador to Turkey; others served as US government officials, or returned to the practice of law. Assassinations and executions: none.



USSR solution to threatened rebellion?

Bullet to the head.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #1000 on: April 01, 2005, 02:32:05 PM »
1000 posts...

and so many of them defending such a great system that it collapsed under it's own weight 'and there was much rejoicing' when it happened.
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #1001 on: April 01, 2005, 03:00:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2


Cause system alone does nothing. There a lot of capitalistic and formally democratic countries (in Africa, for example), where people starving and from where they would emigrate at first possibility.


See my above post, about requirements for effective democratic governments. There are VERY few true democracies in the thrid world, largely because rulers have trouble separating themselves from power at the end of their term, and  because corruption sucks the economy dry. IN general, a country with a "president" who remains in power until death or violence removes them, is NOT a democracy.

Capitalism without Rule of Law (ie effective government and enforced fair laws) is simply oligarchic theft.


I would argue that history strongly shows that governmental/economic systems and the belief systems that underlie them have a HUGE impact on countries. I'd be interested in any logical evidence you cuold provide to the contrary.

Quote

There were rumors that most of color-skinned people in USA never work and live mostly on doles (don`t sure that this is right word ... unemployment grant). And that average life time at their ghettos is ~ 25 for males. Is it true?
 




Let me start with this month's Bureau of Labor Statistics report:

"Both the number of unemployed persons, 7.7 million, and the unemployment
rate, 5.2 percent, decreased in March.  The jobless rate was down from 5.7 per-
cent a year earlier.  Over the month, the unemployment rates for adult men
(4.6 percent), whites (4.4 percent), and Hispanics or Latinos (5.7 percent)
declined.  The unemployment rates for adult women (4.5 percent), teenagers
(16.9 percent), and blacks or African Americans (10.3 percent) were little
changed.  The jobless rate for Asians was 3.9 percent, not seasonally adjusted."

So, 90% of blacks are employed. Their unemployment rate is clearly higher the the rest of the population, for many reasons. Racial discrimination in hiring is illegal, and heavily penalized -- though it still doubtless plays some role. Dialect, lack of professional role models, and fewer local work opportunities add to the problem. Poverty and educational achievement contribute, and unfortunately inner city culture (regardless of race) tends to think less of long term consequences of choices. This mindset makes it very hard to put in the effort necessary for achievement.

Link to heath status report on Harlem, a New York City predominantly black neighborhood:
http://www.apha.org/NPHW/pressroom/2003nhp-manhattanc-EastHarlem.pdf

Mortality rates in this classic US city ghetto are 50% higher than the US at large. Terrible reality, but no where near life expectancy of 25 -- in fact, the life expectancy of US blacks is about 7 years less than for whites. (Don't believe me? Google it.) Most of the excess deaths are from higher infant mortality, and from violent death in the teens and 20s. The life expectancy for blacks at 65 is only 2 years less than for whties at 65.

Note that the rates for drug related disease, including HIV and violent death, are particularly high in the Harlem report.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 03:03:13 PM by Simaril »
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #1002 on: April 01, 2005, 03:14:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Tell me Raven, do your hospitals use disposable suringes yet or do they still use and sharpen the old metallic ones? :D

I know a western woman who got into a car accident in Moscow. She almost died to the completely inept treatment untill her family finally found where she was and transported her away with a medical airlift.




Raven, I have a friends who were living in Russia as English teachers a few years ago. Their son developed persistent wheezing, and was sent for tests including a sweat chloride for Cystic Fibrosis. The father watched the lab tech get the sample, tehn drop it on the floor. Rather than redo the test, the hospital employee said it woudlnt make any difference -- whcih was obviously untrue. The choride cam back high, and despite telling the doctor about the incident the father couldnt get the test redone. Rather than submit to treatment for a disease they didnt think the kid had, they went to a private european physician practicing in Moscow, and were correctly diagnosed with asthma. The child is doing well, but the family lives in Poland now.

Why?


Well, that effective government system thing. You see, they taught english to the wrong people, because some of their students had relatives in the underworld. When the students tried to get out from the drug dealers in the neighborhood by gaining educational skills, the students were killed and the teachers were threatened. They were told that if they didnt stop teaching, they or their kids would end up dead too. So, they left the country since they obviously weren't safe.










And Raven, looking at what you snipped out of the TIME article about the Berlin Wall incident, versus the entire article in context, it seems pretty obvious that you are less interested in what is true than in what supports your position.

That editing shows you're not engaging in an intellectual pursuit;  it's more like bigotry based on nationalism.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005, 03:20:28 PM by Simaril »
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Offline rshubert

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« Reply #1003 on: April 01, 2005, 03:50:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Is it a true American attitude? Do you also tell Jews to pack and go to their Israel? :rolleyes:


Yes, Boroda, it is a true American attitude.  We welcome strangers to our country, provide an atmosphere in which they can succeed if they try, and celebrate the best in any endeavor, from any place.

But if you come here, don't try to tell us we are living our lives wrongly, or that your old home is better for this or that reason.  We don't appreciate it.  You are free to leave, and we aren't going to change our system to match yours that failed.  And yes, we think we have the best system on the planet so far.

Are you over it yet?  Get over it.

Offline Raven_2

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« Reply #1004 on: April 01, 2005, 09:39:46 PM »
to Sciaf

>>Raven don't believe the BS your government has been putting you up to.

:-) Sciaf, don't believe the BS *your* government has been putting *you* up to. :-)

I showed you stats from international sources, not from the "USSR advances" by Soviet Propaganda publishing house :-)