Airforce Police Officer Shot

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
that cop is going to need lots of lube where he's going!

No kidding. one salamander like that makes an entire force take it up the chute regarding public opinion and community support.

The should put him in the stocks and let the masses throw rotten food at him. Shame him bigtime.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Hawklore
This guy was just back from Iraq.

He was attempting to calm the man down..

"I'm on your side man, look, I'm in the military, I've been in it longer then you I'm in the military and police officer"

This looks like a lone cop stop, which means, this cop made every decision wrong, put himself in this situation, who knows what the cop was yelling before this video starts, it could be, Get out you ****ing -racial slur-, you Golly-geen -racial slur- get out of the ****ing car or I'll blow your brains out, you never know what he was saying before the video..

If you notice aswell, the videos audio was edited, possibly racial slurs being muted.

Back from Iraq = The Deps had no way of knowing this, the media who told you wasn't there... besides it doesn't matter, makes interesting headlines tho...

Trying to calm "the man" down?, I call that 148PC AND I would have arrested him for not SingTFU. When you get stopped by the police, esp after a chase, you have ZERO business trying to clam anyone down. If you try to take charge and not follow the Deputies orders, gee... you might get shot.

To those Deps mr MP was just another loudmouth refusing to play nice...

Can you tell me that Deputies knew ANY of info the media plugged in to the story?

It looks like a two man stop to me otherwise that Dep would have been on the drivers side, however I have heard that once the susp veh stopped, the MP exited the susp veh via the passenger door despite being ordered to stay seated (1st huge mistake). Once outside, the Susp complied when ordered to lay on the ground, but continued yapping and moving.

If it was a 1 man car, the Dep had no choice but to cover the suspect that had exited the vehicle, while trying to keep an eye on the driver at the same time...

You imagine this, I've been there:

You're chasing a car at 0 dark 30, why?.. did they just do a drive by?, stupid kids?, wanted 2 strike felons?? I don't know. I do know they're running and I'm alone.

Susp veh T/C's, an unplanned stop, I'm still alone on some dark road not knowing if these guys are dangerous... then suddenly the passenger exits despite my orders to "stay in the car hands up" , why?..

I was trained to recognize this as a distraction, still alone not knowing who I have in the susp veh, now I must get in position to see the exited susps hands.. the hands I cant see will get me killed. I have no choice but relocate behind cover if possible to cover the susp outside the veh AND the driver.

Still alone, pumped from driving like hell hoping the sirens from my partners get closer, trying to cover two unknown suspects in the dark, one of them not only exited, but is now shouting BS.... the dis-tractor, still talking she-it while on the ground suddenly flails, makes a move towards his waistband...

I hesitate, I could die... and my #1 objective is to go home, so as trained, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head... on top of running and endangering my life, now one of them is making himself a PIMA.

The next day I get to read all about what a neat unarmed chior boy mister "I'm cooler than you so I dont have to follow your orders" is. Just back from where?, I don't care really, and the media says he was trying to do what!!! "help!?", talking head and not following my lawful orders is helping?

[Elfie]

If he had laid on the ground, mouth shut following orders, he'd have less lead in his diet.

The officer ordered him to get up, the suspect says.....Ok, I'm getting up....BAM BAM BAM. How was he not following orders?

Video is to dark to determine anything conclusive. The audio isnt the best either but is certainly better than the video. I didnt hear a punk talking back to an officer or bad mouthing an officer. I heard someone that appeared to be trying to calm the officer down. Suspect said.....*I'm on your side*.

[Red Tail 444]

Anyone see the Chris Rock video, "how not to get your bellybutton beat by the cops?"

"If a cop tells you to freeze, you freeze. Because, if you run, and the cops have to chase you, they're bringin' an ass-kickin with 'em."

[xrtoronto]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Anyone see the Chris Rock video, "how not to get your bellybutton beat by the cops?"

"If a cop tells you to freeze, you freeze. Because, if you run, and the cops have to chase you, they're bringin' an ass-kickin with 'em."

That's a great line!! ROFLMAO

Chris Rock's the best

[Hawklore]

I cheer for the cops on COPS too..

But when it comes to shooting puppies with shotguns three times, and beating up an elderly drunk, or shooting a complying suspect, it what deters me from entering the force.

[Habu]

Man I don't know what is more pathetic. The "cop" shooting an unarmed guy for doing what he is told or the arguments some are posting here trying to defend the cop.

He should have the book thrown at him. He has done more damage to the reputation of police than a hundred Rodney King videos.

Even in Brazil when a local policeman was taped murdering the bank robbery guy (who had a gun and had used it in the bank robbery) the cop was charged and convicted.

This is a very cut and dried case. The cop is guilty. He deserves jail.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Elfie
The officer ordered him to get up, the suspect says.....Ok, I'm getting up....BAM BAM BAM. How was he not following orders?

Video is to dark to determine anything conclusive. The audio isnt the best either but is certainly better than the video. I didnt hear a punk talking back to an officer or bad mouthing an officer. I heard someone that appeared to be trying to calm the officer down. Suspect said.....*I'm on your side*.

I haven't seen a clear video yet, or one without excessive bleeps, the one subtitled version on ch 5 has the kid yelling  "I've spent more time than you..in the police in the **bleep** military. Ok?, you **bleep** believe me, alright"

Right after that the Susp says  "I'm gonna get up" tries to stand and is shot.

Hes not responding to the Dep, but telling the Dep he's an experienced military cop so its cool for him to stand up... which it isn't because who he is and what he has to say doesn't matter at that point.

At the same time the susp is yelling, you hear the Dep also saying what sounds like "get up", Ch 5 even did a nice subtitle putting words in the Deps mouth... I've listend to it several times and can't tell you if the Dep is saying "get up" or "dont... get up"...

Cops can be callous, I can easily see that Dep saying "dont...GET UP!" very calm, rather the sandard "freeze", knowing full well judging from the the suspects commentary he's probably going to stand.. and give the Dep a reason to shoot him.

Saying "don't get up" 3x while some suspect is mouthing off about whatever, then tries to stand.. could be a good shooting if the Deps tactics were sound. I'm not sure if the Dep was alone, if there was a cross fire with other officers,   lookie-loos in the kill zone.. or some reason that Dep improvised from a felony stop.

It makes no sense to me that Dep would be telling the susp to "get up" as the susp is mouthing off... if thats really that case, plain and simple, that Dep got pissed and shot that kid like a hardcore gangster would do when disrespected... and for that he'll go to prison (likely Club Fed).

OTOH, he tells a suspect "dont get up" 3x in a row, a suspect that has basically told you hes a more experienced cop than you are so hes going to stand wether you like it or not....  yea, he gets shot.

[fartwinkle]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
I haven't seen a clear video yet, or one without excessive bleeps, the one subtitled version on ch 5 has the kid yelling  "I've spent more time than you..in the police in the **bleep** military. Ok?, you **bleep** believe me, alright"

Right after that the Susp says  "I'm gonna get up" tries to stand and is shot.

Hes not responding to the Dep, but telling the Dep he's an experienced military cop so its cool for him to stand up... which it isn't because who he is and what he has to say doesn't matter at that point.

At the same time the susp is yelling, you hear the Dep also saying what sounds like "get up", Ch 5 even did a nice subtitle putting words in the Deps mouth... I've listend to it several times and can't tell you if the Dep is saying "get up" or "dont... get up"...

Cops can be callous, I can easily see that Dep saying "dont...GET UP!" very calm, rather the sandard "freeze", knowing full well judging from the the suspects commentary he's probably going to stand.. and give the Dep a reason to shoot him.

Saying "don't get up" 3x while some suspect is mouthing off about whatever, then tries to stand.. could be a good shooting if the Deps tactics were sound. I'm not sure if the Dep was alone, if there was a cross fire with other officers,   lookie-loos in the kill zone.. or some reason that Dep improvised from a felony stop.

It makes no sense to me that Dep would be telling the susp to "get up" as the susp is mouthing off... if thats really that case, plain and simple, that Dep got pissed and shot that kid like a hardcore gangster would do when disrespected... and for that he'll go to prison (likely Club Fed).

OTOH, he tells a suspect "dont get up" 3x in a row, a suspect that has basically told you hes a more experienced cop than you are so hes going to stand wether you like it or not....  yea, he gets shot.

LOL I cant believe some people .
Do you need a hearing aid?
I clearly herd the cop saying get up get up.
 

Try if you can to be objective and not such a cop fanboy.
And before you rant about me being anto cop I will tell you that I have two friends that are detectives in there depts.
One in Arlington Tx and the other for Dallas Pd.

And they said in there opinions the cop screwed up.

[Elfie]

This is the only version I have seen, just before the suspect says ok, I'm getting up, it sounds like the deputy told him to get up.

It makes no sense to me that Dep would be telling the susp to "get up" as the susp is mouthing off... if thats really that case, plain and simple, that Dep got pissed and shot that kid like a hardcore gangster would do when disrespected... and for that he'll go to prison

I suspect that might be the case. Would take a very callous individual imo to first shoot someone twice, then tell them to shut up when they start screamin/groaning from the pain.

That cop might need to go to the firing range for some remedial training on hitting point-blank targets. He fires 3 times and misses once. Maybe Lazs can give him some tips

[lasersailor184]

That cop is lucky the MP is still alive.  If he was dead I'd fully expect him to get lynched.

[kevykev56]

Why not use the Tazer. If that had been deployed then this would probably have not made the local news.

Not sure if every officer has one, but it seems that a less than lethal force could have been used to subdue the suspect.

[Trell]

Originally posted by kevykev56
Why not use the Tazer. If that had been deployed then this would probably have not made the local news.

Not sure if every officer has one, but it seems that a less than lethal force could have been used to subdue the suspect.

At least around here i know that you having to be willing to get tazed before you are alowed to be issued one.  So it is still a small % of the dept that will carry one.

[Colt44]

I think (when enhanced) you will find that the Officer says repeatedly "Don't get up"......  Its common practice to keep the suspects prone while you wait for back up.  The Officer is obviously jacked up on adrenaline and appeared out of breath.  But, if he orders him to stand up ...he is breaking tactics and then the escalation of force is caused by him. If thats the case, he will be held held accountable on a civil level.  If he ordered him to stand and then just shot him without any provacation, then he will be tried as a criminal.  I don't think that was the case.

Anyone who has spent anytime on the street knows that if he gets up, you lose you posistion of dominance.  With multiple suspects, if you are distracted by one then the second suspect now has tactical advantage and you could find yourself in a world of hurt.  These suspects had not been searched by the Officer.  The Officer doesn't know if they just robbed a store, did a drive by shooting, or if they were just trying to get to the hospital because his mother had a heart attack.  They have to be considered armed.    

Also, a non-compliant suspect who keeps telling you he is on your side should raise all kinds of red flags in an Officers mind.  I'll refer the the Trooper Coats shooting in Carolina for reference.  Coates got killed by, what on tape appeared to be, the nicest guy in the world.  

As for backing away.... its always the safest move to go to cover.  Howver, when you lose proximinty to the suspect, then the suspects run (and belive me...bad guys know you can't shoot them for running) and another chase ensues.  Again, the Officer is at a total tactical disadvantage in a foot pursuit.  I came around a corner in a foot pursuit once to find a suspect facing me who was pulling a gun out of the pocket of his jacket.  Lucky for me ...and him. . . he was just trying to throw it in the bushes.  I had taken about 4 pounds of pressure off a five pound trigger pull.  Some how, I didn't shoot or I would have shot a 15 year old who was just trying to ditch a gun.  I would have had to live with that.  On the other hand, If he was trying to engage me... It would have been a straight up gun fight from 15 feet ..and I might not live thought that!  Try making that decision is an 8th of a second.  Again, he had tactical advantage and I had to react.  Action is always faster than reaction.

Try to imagine dealing with the Monday morning quarterbacking while everyone says what they would have done.  Imagine trying to keep your family together while the press drags you good name through the mud. I have seen too many good men, good public servants, torn apart by the meda, who were later cleared without exception.   I guess I have a biased opinion here.  I know there are bad cops out there... but not as many as TV would lead you to believe.  

As for the rounds hitting the suspect.. most Officers in shootings have a 18% hit rate...even with all the training we do.

As for tasers...(here In NJ the are illegal for police to use) they only are capable of firing at one suspect.  I believe the Officer was dealing with multiple suspects and you have to fire a tazer with your strong (weapon) hand.  That leaves you vulnerable to the second suspect...who again HAD NOT BEEN SEARCHED.  

Sorry for the rant. . . . I hope it gives some insight.  <>

[Mighty1]

I've listened to his commands with my speakers as loud as they can be and he clearly says "get up" "get up"  so fast that there is no way he could have had "don't" in there.