Author Topic: Ram model needs changing (Read 5044 times)

hitech · « **Reply #60 on:** June 05, 2006, 12:26:43 PM »

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Originally posted by Redd

If I start dying because my FR didn' t see a collision , but the other guy's did , I'd be more pissed off.

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That IS what I am seeing in about half of the incidences, the other half is usually a guys spinner boring into my fuselage while I attempt to avoid. Followed by a message that says "player xxx has collided with you while my wingless aircraft spins.

You have never seen what you describe. If you have not recieved the message "You have collided" Then in no way did you suffer damage from a collision. Therefore you were just shot at close range.

It is realy simple if you avoid a collision you do not take damage.

Edbert1 · « **Reply #61 on:** June 05, 2006, 12:39:34 PM »

The half where I see his plane hit mine and I die to the collision adhere's to what is described as the effect, but it does not adhere to the "player-1 tried to avoid while player-2 bored in" part.

The part where my FE sees no collision and I get a message in white that says "HE collided with ME" yet I am damaged and he is not is not a figment of my imagination, nor one of all the other players who see the same thing. I'll go dig through some films, cannot do it today though.

hitech · « **Reply #62 on:** June 05, 2006, 12:46:19 PM »

Edbert1: Read my lips If you do not get the message "You have collided" You did not suffer any damage from a collision. Infact you did not collided. Therefore the most liky probability is you were shot.

As to him being damaged , he is damaged, you just might not see the effect.

HiTech

mussie · « **Reply #63 on:** June 05, 2006, 12:57:50 PM »

Maybe you should have the FE tell them if they were shot before being rammed....

But only tell them if the hits occour within 1-2 seconds of being rammed...

NooB has collied with you.
NooB has also shot your bellybutton as his rectical was full of your plane 1 second before impact.....

Or you can just get rid of the "You have been collided with" message but keep the "You have collided" message.....

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #64 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:10:48 PM »

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Originally posted by hitech
Edbert1: Read my lips If you do not get the message "You have collided" You did not suffer any damage from a collision. Infact you did not collided. Therefore the most liky probability is you were shot.

As to him being damaged , he is damaged, you just might not see the effect.

HiTech

Thank you HiTech but I sometimes wonder why you even bother. This has become like a religion. No amount of facts will change peoples minds regarding their dogmatic believe regarding this issue.

Just to add more facts to the picture. Not that your gonna believe them.

The message "you have collided" is in orange text. What else is in Orange text? Combat Trim Messages, Mode Switching Messages, Head Position Saved messages. These ALL come from YOUR computer not the host, not the other players compute. What does this mean? that only YOUR computer can detect a collision.

The message "{gameID} collided with you" is in white text. What Else is in white text? Private Messages. The same system that sends a PM sends this message. It comes directly from the other players computer. Your computer did not detect a collision, you do not take damage.

Is it 100% fair? No. Yes a vulcher can fly right over your plane and on his FE he flies over your aircraft but on yours he collides with you. Yes, you can ram a bomber and on the bombers FE a collisions is detects. I've made that mistake myself and sent a "My Bad" to the bomber pilot.

I would wager that 80% of the collisions are failed HOs. So if you don't want to collide DON"T HO.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #65 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:38:07 PM »

I would agree that a lot of rams are from failed HO attempts, but I get a lot in turn fights as well, normally through losing track of who is where, and clipping someone as I wheel around.

I agree that no amount of statements or coad by HT will lessen the number of posts like this or remarks on 200. People believe what they think they see, no matter what the reality is.

Elfie · « **Reply #66 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:59:57 PM »

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I would wager that 80% of the collisions are failed HOs. So if you don't want to collide DON"T HO.

99.9% of the time I see a Collision message is in a turn fight.

Still, BOTH planes should take damage in any collision. If it's not possible to do that, just turn collisions off.

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #67 on:** June 05, 2006, 02:13:44 PM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
99.9% of the time I see a Collision message is in a turn fight.

Still, BOTH planes should take damage in any collision. If it's not possible to do that, just turn collisions off.

That stat is for you alone. I'm speaking about the community as a whole and I stand by it.

Let me ask you this. You are in a slow turn fight and make a close pass by your opponent and WHAM you blow up. You did not see a collision in fact you know you were at least 10-15 yard away but in your text buffer is says "a collision has occurred". Would you not be whining a loudly as you are now? I think we all know the answer to this.

The system is the best possible system for this environment. You are responsible for your own aircraft. You are the one who must avoid collisions. Is that always possible? No, but for the most part it is.

Connery · « **Reply #68 on:** June 05, 2006, 02:17:48 PM »

I've said it before and I will say it again - The only way to fix the ram model is for both planes to take similar damage in a ram - not 1 plane take damaged whilst the other gets away without a scratch.

If 2 planes collided at 150mph in real life - nevermind head on both pilots would be dead and both aircraft in tatters!

Karnak · « **Reply #69 on:** June 05, 2006, 02:24:51 PM »

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Originally posted by 5tu4rt
I've said it before and I will say it again - The only way to fix the ram model is for both planes to take similar damage in a ram - not 1 plane take damaged whilst the other gets away without a scratch.

If 2 planes collided at 150mph in real life - nevermind head on both pilots would be dead and both aircraft in tatters!

That breaks it, not fixes it.

Learn to read and comprehend what has been written explaining why it is the way that it is.

Connery · « **Reply #70 on:** June 05, 2006, 02:58:53 PM »

Dude how about you learn to read and comprehend.

This sim is supposed to be realistic, if two planes collided in real life BOTH would take damage... oh wait sorry you're living in superhero world where you expect your plane to take no damage but the other persons to burst into a ball of flame right ?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but when a collision occurs in real life whether its an aircraft or a car BOTH Parties ultimately take damage.

Hope I've cleared my point up for you there.

Sorry I had to waste 1 ounce of intellectand energy typing this out though, didnt think I'd have to explain such a BASIC and SIMPLE argument.

Elfie · « **Reply #71 on:** June 05, 2006, 02:58:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
That stat is for you alone. I'm speaking about the community as a whole and I stand by it.

Let me ask you this. You are in a slow turn fight and make a close pass by your opponent and WHAM you blow up. You did not see a collision in fact you know you were at least 10-15 yard away but in your text buffer is says "a collision has occurred". Would you not be whining a loudly as you are now? I think we all know the answer to this.

The system is the best possible system for this environment. You are responsible for your own aircraft. You are the one who must avoid collisions. Is that always possible? No, but for the most part it is.

First of all, I am not whining in this thread, I am participating in a discussion.

2nd, where did I state anything other than my OWN experience with collisions? In no way was I even implying that I was speaking for anyone other than myself.

3rd your opinion on what is the best system for collision modeling is just that....your opinion. Mine just happens to differ from yours.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #72 on:** June 05, 2006, 03:04:23 PM »

Stuart, do you understand what "lag" is? Once you do, and realize no one sees everybody else in exactly the same position, it's easy to figure out how one person can register a collision, and the guy he rams doesn't see it.

Also, this isn't real life. There is no lag in reality. That is why it takes 2 planes to collide in real life.

It's all pretty simple. If you avoid a collision, you won't get one. If you don't, you might. It works like that for everyone. Accept it until someone can prove otherwise. Every comment of "Well, what I saw was X" is absolutely worthless. If it's broken, let's have some proof already.

mussie · « **Reply #73 on:** June 05, 2006, 03:19:46 PM »

Thats It...

Next time I get online I am going to:

- Find someone to take to the DA
- Have both of us record the whole frigging session
- purposely cause a bunch of RAMS from different angles
- Post the DAM films to show people what lag does to each persons FE....

Lye-El · « **Reply #74 on:** June 05, 2006, 03:21:35 PM »

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Originally posted by 5tu4rt
I've said it before and I will say it again - The only way to fix the ram model is for both planes to take similar damage in a ram - not 1 plane take damaged whilst the other gets away without a scratch.

If 2 planes collided at 150mph in real life - nevermind head on both pilots would be dead and both aircraft in tatters!

It would certainly lessen the tendency to turn fight as the chance that an airplane you see 200 feet away could cause you and him to spontaniously explode.