Author Topic: Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST (Read 4043 times)

john9001 · « **Reply #120 on:** April 21, 2007, 06:56:37 PM »

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Originally posted by ghi
USA intervention just delayed the birth of European Union with 50 years, and created the Red Comunist Empire ,
Hitler was mad and sick ,he wouldn't have last long anyway,but he united Europe mostly peacefully , and now the relations betwen Euro and Russia, are not better than they were in 1941,

repeat please, message was garbled.

Viking · « **Reply #121 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:35:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ghi
USA intervention just delayed the birth of European Union with 50 years, and created the Red Comunist Empire ,
Hitler was mad and sick ,he wouldn't have last long anyway,but he united Europe mostly peacefully , and now the relations betwen Euro and Russia, are not better than they were in 1941,

Umm ...

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #122 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:51:52 PM »

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Originally posted by ghi
USA intervention just delayed the birth of European Union with 50 years, and created the Red Comunist Empire ,
Hitler was mad and sick ,he wouldn't have last long anyway,but he united Europe mostly peacefully , and now the relations betwen Euro and Russia, are not better than they were in 1941,

I don't care who you are, now THAT'S funny.

Or maybe just a little deluded. Or a lot deluded.

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #123 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:52:35 PM »

I'm with Viking and John on that one, Ghi, that is.....

Hazzer · « **Reply #124 on:** April 22, 2007, 05:16:12 AM »

Could someone on here tell me how the US is going to win this ..err war in Iraq?and when you've finished tell your military leaders they'ed love to know!

The war is already LOST!What bush wants is to get out and somehow save face.NOT going to happen,and History will not be kind to Bush or Blair their lasting legacy to the world will be the mess that is the middle east.OH and it's going to get a lot worse,before it gets better.

Dadano · « **Reply #125 on:** April 22, 2007, 05:48:43 AM »

Wow this thread is a mess.

Tedrbr...well put.

Marine...good thoughts.

John9001...you are clinically retarded.

MBailey...even more so.

Frodo...you are a smelly hippy.

Viking...pwn'd everyone.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #126 on:** April 22, 2007, 08:00:25 AM »

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Originally posted by Viking
If you say so. That works for me, since you never did kick the Nazis out of Norway. So I guess you owe us now.

I hear there are lots of half breeds in Norway > Norwegian mothers, Nazi fathers.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #127 on:** April 22, 2007, 08:52:41 AM »

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Originally posted by Hazzer
Could someone on here tell me how the US is going to win this ..err war in Iraq?and when you've finished tell your military leaders they'ed love to know!

The war is already LOST!What bush wants is to get out and somehow save face.NOT going to happen,and History will not be kind to Bush or Blair their lasting legacy to the world will be the mess that is the middle east.OH and it's going to get a lot worse,before it gets better.

The middle east was a steaming pile of $&!+ before Bush and Blair were born. At worst, all they did is refocus the attention and violence to a different area.

What will prevent things from improving in that region is the lack of willingness to kill enough of the right people. I said 3 years ago that al Sadr was a cancer that needed to be excised. A half dozen of the brilliant people here said we should "establish a dialog" with him. He's REAL good to work with, isn't he?

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #128 on:** April 22, 2007, 08:54:14 AM »

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Originally posted by Dadano
Wow this thread is a mess.

Tedrbr...well put.

Marine...good thoughts.

John9001...you are clinically retarded.

MBailey...even more so.

Frodo...you are a smelly hippy.

Viking...pwn'd everyone.

The only thing Viking owns is his own bitterness, hatred, and paranoia. He's become PNG before, and Skuzzy allowed him back. He'll go PNG again, too.

Toad · « **Reply #129 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:23:43 AM »

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Originally posted by Viking
You are arguing over semantics. [/i]

Actually, you are the one arguing semantics. You keep saying it wasn't a bloodbath.

Particulary since you seem unable or unwilling to define the term.

The basic question is really do you have any idea how many South Vietnamese died in the aftermath of the North Vietnamese victory? That would include those sent to re-education camps and those sent to forced labor camps that died as a result of NV action/inaction.

So far, you've shown no indication that you've researched it at all. Rather, you just deny it was a bloodbath without attempting to define the term.

So which is it? Do you have any idea at all or are you just arguing the semantics of bloodbath?

Hap · « **Reply #130 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:50:18 AM »

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Originally posted by Bodhi our biggest foreign policy mistake[/B]

Remaining wedded to Mid-East oil for another generation, so robber barons and their tools can become richer would make my list of global political blunders.

Viking · « **Reply #131 on:** April 22, 2007, 10:42:54 AM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
He'll go PNG again, too.

I highly doubt that.

Maverick · « **Reply #132 on:** April 22, 2007, 10:53:25 AM »

It remains yet to be finally seen but I believe, if trends continue, we should later be able to determine the conflict in Iraq ceased to be a viable operation in November of 06.

Whether it is determined to be a total loss will be dependent on events that have not yet happened and the passage of time. If in say 10 years, Iraq has a stable govt. and can exist with the population within it's borders it will be a success. If not then I would state the failure began not so much in 2003 but when the country was first formed. Without a stable beginning nothing later can be counted on to be stable either.

Viking · « **Reply #133 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:06:40 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
The basic question is really do you have any idea how many South Vietnamese died in the aftermath of the North Vietnamese victory? That would include those sent to re-education camps and those sent to forced labor camps that died as a result of NV action/inaction.

You are correct that I have done no serious study of the aftermath of the South-Vietnamese defeat, but I believe the deaths, including those from long-term incarceration (camps), were in the tens of thousands range. While slow lingering deaths in a prison camp over a number of years is worse than a summary execution, they do not constitute a “bloodbath” in my opinion.

I have found a couple of dictionary definitions of “bloodbath” and they seem to agree with my point of view:

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bloodbath
noun

1. A massacre; a savage murder of a number of people, involving much bloodshed.

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blood•bath also blood bath(bldbth, -bäth)
n.
Savage, indiscriminate killing; a massacre.

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bloodbath : indiscriminate slaughter

From what I have read, and even what you’ve told me, the “purging” done in South-Vietnam after the war was not ”indiscriminate”, nor did it involve much ”bloodshed”. It was more of a cold, calculated and orderly “process”. At least that’s my impression of the events.

Toad · « **Reply #134 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:21:32 AM »

LOL! Who's indulging in a semantics debate?

It is indeed clear that you haven't done any research. "Tens of thousands" is incorrect. The best research I can find would raise that into the hundreds of thousands range.

This does not count the dead at sea category of the boat people, which is significantly larger than both camp figures combined. I'm sure you'll say the NV did not kill these people, they chose to flee and died because of that decision. Of course...they were fleeing the labor and re-ed camps but that doesn't count, I'm sure.

But that's certainly not enough to merit calling it a slaughter or bloodbath is it? Or whatever semantically correct term you choose for killing people after the fighting has ceased.