The artful HO

[Steve]

All that aside, if you aim for my nose and you don't start turning at 1.5K, the HO is on, as far as I'm concerned.  I don't care WHAT I'm flying..I'm squeezing the trigger.

Why not just flip a coin and see if you win?  Except in a HO, both parties usually lose to some degree or another. It's unusual for one plane to come out unscathed.  Usually, both planes take damage, often fatal.

with the HO first mentality, assuming you are at least good enough to win half your Ho's, you'll average a paltry .5 or so K/S. I don't see the fun in that.

The thought that Ho'ing is a valid tactic seems completely wrong minded  to me. I describe a valid tactic as one that gives you a reasonable chance of dispatching your enemy without yourself having a reasonable chance of sustaining moderate to fatal damage. Considering this, HO'ing is not a valid tactic, barring desperate circumstances.

[Ack-Ack]

I just hate it when longtime advanced players in a 1 on 1 relatively even scenario (he was in a Spit 9, I was in a Seafire) take the HO shot and then try to dress it up in fancy terms to avoid the stigma.

It sounds more like you're trying to dress up your terrible merge tactics to avoid the stigma of being shot down.  Next time don't dive under the other guy as you merge.  Better yet, go to Netaces.org and read the lectures on how to merge properly.


ack-ack

[DrDea]

 Takes 2 to ho is just wrong. The mantra of the mindless.When merging,I'll give the front and either dive under or pull to one side.If said tard pulls the trigger on the second merge after seeing I didnt pull the trigger,if theres a third merge hes gonna get a face full.I'll give someone the benifit of the doubt on the 2nd front pass.If I die in the process to a HO shot maby they get a clue and see I never took the shot on the first 2 passes.Maby it makes THEM think about that shot.<Oh noes!!!! Your score> We all know what scores show in here.I would much rather show someone the better way to really use ACM and forget all about the HO shot.

[CAP1]

so what your saying is that a spixteen needs skill?

in its own ways, yes.

it's a crutch, no doubt, and is much easier to kill in than a few aircraft, but eachj one requires a different skill set.

 

[Zazen13]

Let's be clear here. Some are quibbling over the nature of the angle of the actual shot. But, what we're are really talking about is the intent to HO. Whether the would-be HOer actually hits on the dead 12 or sprays you down as you try to duck, barrel roll, jink or whatever to avoid the "pure" HO doesn't make it any less of a HO in spirit. Sure, anything other than a pure zero deflection nose to nose merge shot is not a "pure" HO. But, the guy who heaves on the stick to pull into your face or spray you down as you try to duck with his practically infinite barrage of Niki cannon rounds is no less of a HOer, regardless of the angle of deflection he scores the hits. A noble effort to avoid the Hoer resulting in giving up a higher profile, slightly off angle deflection shot doesn't disqualify the attempt as a HO. There are a lot of really good shootists in the game who love to HO and can almost as easily score hits on you when you try to evade the "pure" HO, especially if they are in a significantly more maneuverable plane, you are under control compression or in a low-E/Alt state.

[Ack-Ack]

so what your saying is that a spixteen needs skill?

You need skill to be successful in any plane.  Get an unskilled pilot flying a Spitfire against an average pilot and the average pilot will win.  Just because a plane is easier to fly than some others doesn't mean it takes less skill to be successful in it. 


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Let's be clear here. Some are quibbling over the nature of the angle of the actual shot. But, what we're are really talking about is the intent to HO. Whether the would-be HOer actually hits on the dead 12 or sprays you down as you try to duck, barrel roll, jink or whatever to avoid the "pure" HO doesn't make it any less of a HO in spirit. Sure, anything other than a pure zero deflection nose to nose merge shot is not a "pure" HO. But, the guy who heaves on the stick to pull into your face or spray you down as you try to duck with his practically infinite barrage of Niki cannon rounds is no less of a HOer, regardless of the angle of deflection he scores the hits. A noble effort to avoid the Hoer resulting in giving up a higher profile, slightly off angle deflection shot doesn't disqualify the attempt as a HO. There are a lot of really good shootists in the game who love to HO and can almost as easily score hits on you when you try to evade the "pure" HO, especially if they are in a significantly more maneuverable plane, you are under control compression or in a low-E/Alt state.

Regardless of the intent, the OP is purely to blame for getting hit.  He could have used a many number of different merges but he decided to play chicken, flinched and dove under the other guy.  His merge tactic is what caused him to get hit, not the other guy's.  Had he created some seperation he would have opened up a myriad of options to choose from instead of diving under.  Honestly, diving under the other guy at the merge is one of the dumbest merges you can pull, it leaves you totally exposed from nose to tail and the hits usually cause critical, if not fatal damage.


ack-ack

[CAP1]

You need skill to be successful in any plane.  Get an unskilled pilot flying a Spitfire against an average pilot and the average pilot will win.  Just because a plane is easier to fly than some others doesn't mean it takes less skill to be successful in it. 


ack-ack

in other words, it's the plane, moreso than the pilot

[Zazen13]

Regardless of the intent, the OP is purely to blame for getting hit.  He could have used a many number of different merges but he decided to play chicken, flinched and dove under the other guy.  His merge tactic is what caused him to get hit, not the other guy's.  Had he created some seperation he would have opened up a myriad of options to choose from instead of diving under.  Honestly, diving under the other guy at the merge is one of the dumbest merges you can pull, it leaves you totally exposed from nose to tail and the hits usually cause critical, if not fatal damage.


ack-ack

No, doubt there, giving up a high profile shot of any kind is bad mojo, especially if it involves your canopy. But, there are times when it is either virtually impossible to avoid a plane hellbent and determined to HO you or you attempt to avoid the HO but he throws up a wall of cannon rounds in your direction and hits you anyway. In both cases it only requires the willful desire of one of the two participants to HO. Even if the actual hits were scored off the perfect zero deflection angle, it's still a HO for all practical purposes and the perpetrator is still a HOer. Obviously, improved anti-HO tactics can somewhat minimize these things from happening in a lot of situations, but even the best anti-HO moves won't ever completely foil the habitual HO artist.

[BaldEagl]

Let's be clear here. Some are quibbling over the nature of the angle of the actual shot. But, what we're are really talking about is the intent to HO. Whether the would-be HOer actually hits on the dead 12 or sprays you down as you try to duck, barrel roll, jink or whatever to avoid the "pure" HO doesn't make it any less of a HO in spirit. Sure, anything other than a pure zero deflection nose to nose merge shot is not a "pure" HO. But, the guy who heaves on the stick to pull into your face or spray you down as you try to duck with his practically infinite barrage of Niki cannon rounds is no less of a HOer, regardless of the angle of deflection he scores the hits. A noble effort to avoid the Hoer resulting in giving up a higher profile, slightly off angle deflection shot doesn't disqualify the attempt as a HO. There are a lot of really good shootists in the game who love to HO and can almost as easily score hits on you when you try to evade the "pure" HO, especially if they are in a significantly more maneuverable plane, you are under control compression or in a low-E/Alt state.

I agree 100% and fought long and hard over this one in another thread once.  Saying it's not a HO at that point is just a way to justify the HO and attempt to avoid the stigma.

[dunnrite]

In a "furball situation", I will ho.  Everytime.  On the same note, in a furball, anytime an enemy ac is in my gun solutions, I will pull the trigger.  The more I take out, the less there is to kill me.  If I am defending/capturing a base, I will ho.  Sometimes not enough time to achieve an "appropriate" merge.  Now, if I'm in a fight with 1v1/2v1/2v2, etc., I will fight until one of us dies.  I laugh at all these guys who complain about the ho so much.  If you see the nose of an enemy ac in your gunsight at 2k or less, he is going to ho.

[Zazen13]

I agree 100% and fought long and hard over this one in another thread once.  Saying it's not a HO at that point is just a way to justify the HO and attempt to avoid the stigma.

Think about it like this...Which is worse...

Pilot A) The guy who only goes to guns if you head straight for his nose, but won't shoot if you pull to avoid or for a traditional merge, choosing instead to also merge and fight.

or

Pilot B) The guy who pulls aggressively into your face for the "pure" HO, but declines a traditional merge in favor of pulling for a spray at you even if you attempt to evade the "pure" HO for some merge separation.

Both, are HO'ers, but Pilot A only HO's by mutual consent. Pilot B will attempt to force it under almost any circumstance. Now Pilot A, by definition, is the "pure" HOer, but Pilot B, even though he may not hit you at the "pure" zero deflection angle is a much worse animal, but not necessarily a "pure" HOer. So, can anyone seriously say pilot B's tactic is more "clean" or "sportsmanlike" because the shot angle was not zero deflection like Pilot A's? Hell no, Pilot A only HO's those that choose to "joust" with him and they deserve what they get. Pilot B uses the HO or any deflection shot he can force out of it as a substitute for actual fighting...This is why the "pure" HO excuse is weak sauce, it's completely ridiculous. So, if a  pilot goes to guns on the merge he's a HOer regardless of the angle he scores hits on.

[Jing0]

Personnaly I cant se the problem with a ho: if im daft enuf to let u get a shot in take it, cos im going to do my best to make sure you wont get another chance.

However I dont always ho myself despite being a hurri driver: I Will ho if your flying a zero (cos their turning skillz make me nervous) and if Im outnumbered (to even the odds if i can) but generally im more content to go into a barrel roll and let the opposing ho'er waste ammo on empty air, no need to risk getting shot when I know a lot of people forget how turnable hurris are on the deck.

ho'ing, picking and vulching...all "wrong" apparently but exactly which one is wrong and by how much seems to depend entirly on which plane your flying. p51s etc seem happy to pick ( sorry, that should be "clear their squaddies tail") yet get all whiney when they go head to head but forget to pull the trigger. Only last night I was right behind a spit twistin and turnin on the deck and it appeared to be raining 190s and p47s, i got the spit and ten seconds later a 190 got me...Im not gonna whine about it tho, it happens every night over and over again, but you start to learn to keep yer eyes open keep turning and not get fixated on a target. If you keep getting ho'd and dont like it you'd beter find a way not to get put in that position.

 After all your flying at several hundred miles an hour and your bristling with guns, whos gonna force you to accept a ho?

[Boxboy]

I subscribe to the "it takes two to HO" but from my view point the two involved are Hoer and the Hoee 

Never the less there always seems to be 2   

and BTW folks this subject was ment as a JOKE, I never dreamed it would get this type of response 

[Zazen13]

and BTW folks this subject was ment as a JOKE, I never dreamed it would get this type of response 

It's called "springboarding", when a topic is used to carry on a related discussion. It's not hijacking because we're staying on the subject generally,  but we're expounding upon it beyond its original scope...