Author Topic: Wing Option for squad's  (Read 8681 times)

Offline moot

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2009, 05:44:48 PM »
You basicaly want me to repeat what I wrote in the previous post? Are you really not going to reply to this future post with one more request for me to repeat it?
I'll do it later.
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Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2009, 05:56:15 PM »
Sooooo...there is a secret club with secret charter and secret numbers that secret people belong too....but they are waaaay better then anyone else...got it :devil

And yes widewing seems foolish imho....he started with a post that insulted BoPs and he is welcome to apologize and start again...I have played many years longer then him...i just choose to enjoy the whole game as a game and not as a life decision.  I'm sure if I was motivated i could memorize optimal turn speeds and radiuses for all the planes and be uber too.  The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey.  If people who read ww2 aviation history really thinks we come even close to what actually occurred by DA standards then I can't help you.  The MA for me is the closest to the unpredictable environment of air combat and that is why i love it.  Maybe you guys should spend more time in there.  The number of geniuses who have decided to prioritize ACM over everything else is ridiculous but hey you are not alone.....

Try playing Tribes, Quake, World of Warcraft, Everquest.....there are the over serious noobs who emphasize one aspect of the game over everything else and insult folks who just have fun....I'm sorry when I hold a mirror up you are more fascinated by the reflection then understanding what is truly being shown...

If widewing is an amazing guy then my first encounter with him is very negative and he can reflect on that as well...perhaps he should reread his first post and decide if that is the post that would make me think well of trainers or be convinced that the true dweebs have infiltrated the training ranks.  I would hope someone who has dedicated himself to only training would be amazing....but who really cares...resume material for you??     Murder is of the same ilk...though it is only lately that I find him annoying.   :salute
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 06:24:20 PM by FALCONWING »
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Offline 1Boner

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2009, 06:02:31 PM »
You basicaly want me to repeat what I wrote in the previous post? Are you really not going to reply to this future post with one more request for me to repeat it?
I'll do it later.

Looking forward to it.

This is actually kinda fun, however pointless.

I eagerly await your response.

I think I'm off to "amalgamate" again.

But this time I'm gonna wear a glove! :aok
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Offline E25280

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2009, 06:26:00 PM »
First, Aces High is first and foremost, a flying game. The Trainer Corps places its emphasis on that.

<snip>

If someone contacts the Trainer Corps, or asks a trainer for help with any aspect of the game, they will get help. No one is turned away because of topic.

Does that cover everything?


My regards,

Widewing
That covers everything rather well, thanks.

I do think it is a bit disappointing I had to ask.  Seems more and more lately things are getting back to the old "furballer vs. toolshedder" arguments, and the trainers by and large seem to advocate a strong "furballer" stance when there are other aspects of the game that are just as entertaining for some.

Key word there:  Entertaining.  You say it is first and foremost a flying game, but I would say on a more fundamental level it is entertainment.  How someone acheives that entertainment is up to them, and IMO, no one should be belittled for what moves them to subscribe to the game.

My unsolicited $0.02 directed toward no one in particular.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled flame-fest.
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Offline moot

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2009, 06:32:39 PM »
Sooooo...there is a secret club with secret charter and secret numbers that secret people belong too....but they are waaaay better then anyone else...got it :devil
A proper ridicule points out something ridiculous.. Other than that secret club (as far as you say anyway) being secret, is there something ridiculous here?  You mean that they couldn't beat up your squad? Not saying that myself, that's just how your post comes off as. Do you not get that this isn't about your squad in particular or how good or bad it is at this game compared to any other?  Just the fact that squads beyond a certain size don't fit the game's criteria? Quality over quantity?

Quote
And yes widewing is a tool imho....he started with a post that insulted BoPs and he is welcome to apologize and start again...I have played many years longer then him...i just choose to enjoy the whole game as a game and not as a life decision.  I'm sure if I was motivated i oculd memorize optimal turn speeds and radiuses for all the planes and be uber too.  The truth is it doesn't seem historic but gamey.  If people who read ww2 aviation history really thinks we come even close to what actually occurred by DA standards then I can't help you.  The MA for me is the closest to the unpredictable environment of air combat and that is why i love it.  Maybe you guys should spend more time in there.  The number of geniuses who have decided to prioritize ACM over everything else is ridiculous but hey you are not alone.....
Mischaracterization.
You don't need to memorize speeds or put pure ACM above everything else. I'm a crappy teacher because I do everything instinctively. I do all sorts of gameplay types.. Plenty of times the other muppets logged while I was dweebing around in missions or GVs or strat playing. Badboy (in shades) trolled around in the DA and the only decisive kills he could manage was flying in a single flat circle at precisely the optimal corner speed. It's boring, the opposite of what I consider a good fight. - Again... The point isn't that being a relatively crappy player is bad.. It's anytime you (general you) argue that the game and player are better off avoiding improving their skill (yes, I said skill, the word existed before games, look up what it really means in a dictionary).  You can't enjoy a game if you can't play it. You can't have as much fun (all other things being equal) as someone who's more skilled than you. He may not have more fun than you at any particular thing, but he can do more particular things in this hypothetical game.  There's nothing condescending in saying this, so yours and Boner's whole pretention that "me and my ilk" are elitist blowhards is bogus.

Bogus also because you're the leader of such a big "squad" but don't even have the sense (correct me if I'm wrong) to influence all the crappier players (yes that's what a lot of em are, we've all been there) into getting better. Also bogus because you guys are the ones that brought the whole enoodle wagging into this.  Yeah, the "dfc" would mop the floor with you guys, at pure dogfighting or base taking, but that's not the point!

Quote
Try playing Tribes, Quake, World of Warcraft, Everquest.....there are the over serious noobs who emphasize one aspect of the game over everything else and insult folks who just have fun....I'm sorry when I hold a mirror up you are more fascinated by the reflection then understanding what is truly being shown...

If widewing is an amazing guy then my first encounter with him is very negative and he can reflect on that as well...perhaps he should reread his first post and decide if that is the post that would make me think well of trainers or be convinced that the true dweebs have infiltrated the training ranks.  Murder is of the same ilk...though it is only lately that I find him annoying.   :salute
You don't know what you're talking about, period.  You're starting to sound as full of yourself and not worth arguing with as Rox. Something tells me this fits with your intentions too.. Who cares who's right so long as you get to have the last word and save face for your oh so precious proof fun and credibility - your squad size.  And again I personaly don't give a rat's about your specific squad size. It's your 15$. The point remains that the game is better off with squads limits no larger than what guarantees close knit squads. Whether Widewing is a tool like you say is totaly beside the point. You fell back on that because you have no argument otherwise.  Nevermind the fact that he isn't, that ACM is the building block of this game's value, that there's nothing elitist about wanting to improve players' abilities by learning said ACM (which you don't care for as far as I've seen), etc.


Looking forward to it.

This is actually kinda fun, however pointless.

I eagerly await your response.

I think I'm off to "amalgamate" again.

But this time I'm gonna wear a glove! :aok
Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language?  Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here?
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Offline pipz

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #80 on: February 02, 2009, 06:42:25 PM »
Just come pick it up. 

Philly is not that far.      :D

Philly?  :D Ill bring a van over tomorrow.Im on the other side of the river outside of Camden.Thanks in advance  :aok

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Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #81 on: February 02, 2009, 06:46:05 PM »
A proper ridicule points out something ridiculous.. Other than that secret club (as far as you say anyway) being secret, is there something ridiculous here?  yes its ridiculous...but thats my opinion...but issuing a challenge from said secret club makes it more ridiculous...see how does anyone know who is in a secret squad if it is secret???  Its like saying my soccer team can beat your high schools soccer team...but my soccer team is a secret team of handpicked players....kind of ridiculousYou mean that they couldn't beat up your squad? Not saying that myself, that's just how your post comes off as. Do you not get that this isn't about your squad in particular or how good or bad it is at this game compared to any other?  Just the fact that squads beyond a certain size don't fit the game's criteria? Quality over quantity?  Take off your blinders and read widewings first post.  It was ALL about my squad and very little about anything else
Mischaracterization.
You don't need to memorize speeds or put pure ACM above everything else. I'm a crappy teacher because I do everything instinctively. I do all sorts of gameplay types.. Plenty of times the other muppets logged while I was dweebing around in missions or GVs or strat playing. Badboy (in shades) trolled around in the DA and the only decisive kills he could manage was flying in a single flat circle at precisely the optimal corner speed. It's boring, the opposite of what I consider a good fight. - Again... The point isn't that being a relatively crappy player is bad.. It's anytime you (general you) argue that the game and player are better off avoiding improving their skill (yes, I said skill, the word existed before games, look up what it really means in a dictionary).  You can't enjoy a game if you can't play it. You can't have as much fun (all other things being equal) as someone who's more skilled than you. He may not have more fun than you at any particular thing, but he can do more particular things in this hypothetical game.  There's nothing condescending in saying this, so yours and Boner's whole pretention that "me and my ilk" are elitist blowhards is bogus. No... its true...i can beat 95% of the pilots i run into...what percent makes it okay in your "ilks" opinion to say  "hey im pretty good i think ill just have fun?"

Bogus also because you're the leader of such a big "squad" but don't even have the sense (correct me if I'm wrong) to influence all the crappier players (yes that's what a lot of em are, we've all been there) into getting better. Also bogus because you guys are the ones that brought the whole enoodle wagging into this. huh?  we issued a challenge?  I did not even know and still dont really... what a dfc is? Yeah, the "dfc" would mop the floor with you guys, at pure dogfighting or base taking, but that's not the point! again syaing invisible guys who wont form a squad are better then set guys is an easy way out
You don't know what you're talking about, period.  You're starting to sound as full of yourself and not worth arguing with as Rox. Something tells me this fits with your intentions too.. Who cares who's right so long as you get to have the last word and save face for your oh so precious proof fun and credibility - your squad size.  honestly it sounds more like you...every thread about squad size you, bronk, murdr, pothead420 have to jump in...try staying out and UNDERSTAND that the real people are having fun despite what you try and tell them.  I get that that is very frustrating to the over serious folksAnd again I personaly don't give a rat's about your specific squad size. It's your 15$. The point remains that the game is better off with squads limits no larger than what guarantees close knit squads. Whether Widewing is a tool like you say is totaly beside the point. You fell back on that because you have no argument otherwise.No...i gleaned this from his approach to conversation  Nevermind the fact that he isn't, that ACM is the building block of this game's valueBS..you just dont get it....its a game...FUN is the building block....there are a million ways to virtual "kill" on the web...we choose cartoon airplanes....but its a game first or people wouldn't play long enough for the business to work, that there's nothing elitist about wanting to improve players' abilities by learning said ACM (which you don't care for as far as I've seen), etc. I'm always available to DA

 Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language?  Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here? there is no need for any disagreement....read this carefully...it is a big game...fun can be had many ways....the whole point of this WISHLIST thread was to see how folks can find guys easily who they would like to have FUN with IF they are not enrolled in their squad....everything else was multi-wing squad bashing drivel sponsered by the trainers and furballers and honestly ...you
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 06:57:12 PM by FALCONWING »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2009, 06:55:41 PM »
Ya just can't go wrong bashing 107 member multi-wing squads. (thankfully most of them don't look at the bbs) FWIW, I REALLY don't think it was specifically a Bop-bashing-thread...(although we COULD have a forum for that)....but more specifically a thread to stop THIS


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Offline 1Boner

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2009, 06:56:43 PM »

 Is this the part where I point out it's more ridiculous to sound illiterate and flaunt it, than to use a couple of words that aren't common in english every now and then because it's not my first language?  Am I wrong in the impression that you're after throwing poop more than getting to the bottom of disagreements here?

Hey Moot!

Please believe me when I tell you that I was not trying to ridicule you or your choice of words.

I just found a little humor in the word "amalgamate" and decided to have a little fun with it.

So consequently yes, you are getting the wrong impression.

As far as the disagreeements go?

I don't think we will see eye to eye on this subject no matter how much we try to persuade each other.

Different strokes (pun intended) for different folks.

Lets leave it at that.

Hope to cya soon, up in the friendly skies of AH!
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2009, 07:38:53 PM »
I have not bashed so called "megasquads" in this thread.  I have, in vain I might add, tried to point out what a "squadron" is defined as in AH, and how it was historically defined.  But the current trend seems to be "eff everyone else, I make my own definitions". 

The OP asked for channel 4, map highlighting, and .sr privileges for something other than what a "squad" is defined as by the developer in AH.  Effectively that is the same as redefining the definition of a squadron.  Obvously I disagree with that request. 

That was up until the point that a poster decided to start bashing the AHTC without provocation.  Carrying on an argument with a single trainer or even a couple is not justification for dragging the entire trainer corps into it.  I can see the response to that statement would be "but he dragged my squad into it".  If you think there is some kind of equivlence between "a squad" and any one of the many volunteer teams that put so much time in to enhance AH for everyone, not only do I think you're mistaken, but I also think that if I direct HTC's attention to this thread, that mistake will be proven. 

Offline SuBWaYCH

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2009, 08:13:24 PM »
The CH are not a "mega-squad" but we can mass together some pretty large #'s on squad nights.

A lot of the reason these squads are so big is that we are all friends and we all enjoy playing and talking with each other. Its how we enjoy the game, and flying and dying is apart of that.

My 2 cents.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2009, 08:44:28 PM »
Quite frankly, I for one desire to do nothing other than shoot down a few "enemy" planes.  And the more skill my opponents possess, the more fun and interesting I find the fight.

I'm also basically a "lone wolf".  I fight alone, as does my (only) squadie.  We may be flying near each other, but we don't jump into each others fight unless multiples are on one of us.  Even then, generally one of us needs to have 3 on him before we consider it troubling.  My squad consists of two members.  We could see letting it grow to 4 members, maybe.  Personally, after that I'd tune off the channel.  Too much chatter.  I have loads of friends.  I'm not anti-social.  I just don't like a bunch of chatter.  I turned down many invites, and left my old squad (327th Steel Talons, another large multi-wing squad) because I didn't like the chatter.

I don't care what size squad you belong to.  Not a bit.  I don't even know which squad you belong to.  I kind of figured Falconwing was a fitting name for a BoP member (but I honestly didn't know for sure until a few posts ago.  A top dog in that squad?  I wasn't even aware he was still around...), and I knew previously that humble and a few others belonged to the 71st, and a few that belonged to the muppets.  Who really cares?  And believe it on not I'll forget what squad you guys belong to within a week, unless you remind me.  Not because I have a bad memory, but because your squad affiliation means no more to me than what the temperature was 3 Tuesdays ago at 3:17am in the shed behind some broken down car.

An individual will be much more memorable to me.  Not just from a skill standpoint, but from a "value to the community/game" standpoint.  Is that person contributing to the overall fun of the game for the majority of the participants?  Or being a detriment?

Someone mentioned earlier that this game takes no skill.  That's a true statement for many people.  All you need to do is surround yourself with enough others and it makes it true.  Can't shoot anyone down?  Gang 'em with 11 other planes, and you'll get lucky eventually (I was actually in a 12v1 the other day).  You might even live through the "fight".  Can't drop a bomb on a target?  That's ok, someone in the horde will hit it.  As a matter of fact, lack of skill in a situation like that may be a benefit, since it may keep you from getting discouraged with your mob.  You'll look at the occasional kill as a bonus, rather than be upset when 9 of your friends swarm the one enemy plane in the sector.  Does that mean that all in a mob are skill-less?  No.  But what's the point in possessing any skill in that situation?  Slamming into the ground accidentally might even help your swarm; you can bring another C47.

I don't even care if you're in a horde.  I just can't see the point in swarming over an area without an opposing horde.  Horde vs horde can be fun.  How is it fun to be in a 3v1, if you possess even basic skill and mental accuity?  More than a 3v1 is cause for flat-out embarassment, at least in my eyes.  Especially since I can't remember a single time a fight like that consisted of anything other than 3 individuals racing each other for the kill.  Teamwork??  LMAO!  

And I say that from a game/entertainment standpoint.  What fun is a game without equal opposition?  Last night was a great football game, and I don't even like football.  Had it been 20 players vs 3 it would have sucked.  What's the point?  Could we have seen the "winners" as anything but "losers"?  How ridiculous would it be had they cheered themselves on and proclaimed it an outstanding victory?  How could they expect their peers to view them with respect?  This is a game, not a war.  As such, it relies on equal opposition.

It's not that the horde-mongers are necessarily skill-less knobs, it's that they come across as such.

I'm a furballer I guess, since I don't give a hoot who owns which field.  But if this was purely a furball game I'd get bored and leave.  To me it's the wide variety and the resulting unpredictabilty that makes the game fun.  I like the fact that some want to play the capture game.  Or the GV game.  Whatever!  Do it with a squad, big or small, I don't care.  But at least make it interesting...
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2009, 08:49:12 PM »
I am a member of the DFC ( Dog Fighters Club ), we do not PROMOTE furballing, we promote fair game play, proper BFM & ACM Mechanics, and many of us are long time AH vets that have been here from day1 of open beta and even hold the same positions on volunteer staff as we held for many years in prior / earlier only flight sims.....

Falconwing, you are 100% wrong in bashing the Aces High Training Corps..... and I guarantee you that you could fly another 10 years and not even approach the number of amount of players I have helped in flight sims.

The reason the DFC is not a squad and is a club, because it is a club for like minded individuals who want the best for Aces High, nothing more / nothing less........ the DFC is really your pillars of the community that give their time to make this game better for everyone, from Trainers, to Terrain Designers, to CM's, to individual volunteers to skinners ad infinium.......

We promote FSO / Scenarios / Squad vs Squad dueling Ladder / KOTH / we promote fair game play......... the fair game play is your issue none the less, because your what is it 6 wing squad is the exact opposite of fair game play..........I'll say it agian, we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas

just like private vox channel 169 in KOTH and you and the others that were tuned to it, so a rule was imposed to prevent chatting in VOX on anything except channel 101 for everyone....we play by fair rules and strive for fair game play in all events in all melee arenas.... You never flew another KOTH after that day if I recall when the KOTH CM's witnessed who all was tuned to the channel.....I will bury that ancient history  now, for it was a while ago......


as far as jumping on a Trainer because he wearing the Trainer Tag, that is not our option to turn it off and on at our demand, so take timeout and realize All Volunteer Staff are allowed to post their person thoughts/comment s/opnions and take them as such, before bashing a whole volunteered group of people.


"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline JV44boobman

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2009, 09:09:55 PM »
Yea, because there's a unit structure
A Flight is 4-6 aircraft
A Squadron is 3-4 Flights
A Group is 2-10 Squadrons
A Wing is 2+ Groups
An Air Force (eg. 8th Air Force) is 2+ wings


HTC says a squadron is 32 players (as opposed to USAAF 12-24 planes).  More that is a higher unit than "a squadron", period.

you for got one...and element it is just before a flight made up of half the flight and for man flight would have 2 elements and a 6 man 3 idk how 5 would work but yea....


JV44boob <S>

Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Wing Option for squad's
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2009, 09:56:51 PM »
ZZZZZZZ...


There isn't a single BOP that could wake me up from a nap... Keep preaching that skill means nothing...  Keep insisting that a player who wants to improve his ACM skill is "nuts"...

You guys horde because individually, you stink up the arena.

Tell ya what, I'll gather 32 members of the DFC, you gather 32 BOPs. We meet in the SEA arena. Care to guess how long it is before 32 BOPs are in the tower?

Bring an egg timer.


My regards,

Widewing

Obviously murder and gang like pretending this wasn't the post that made me question who exactly populated the AH training Corp....

Once again I am happy to accept an apology anytime on behalf of the training corp for this unsolicited comment...this thread was about the possibility of a search option for finidng folks to fly with....this is what was presented.

Murdr, another member has been following me in several threads and also has dimmed my view of the training corp....

I'm sure there are decent guys who contribute to this game without feeling the need to insult/harrass/try to embarrass others but this has not been my experience....guys like this and posts like this are insulting even if they avoid violating a set rule... ;)
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