A20 Tie Fighter Mystery

[Widewing]

If that is the case it seems that F3 view should be removed from the A-20G.

Short sighted... What about the B-25s, Boston, B-26, TBM, BN5 and Ju 88? All can be and are used the same way.

[Widewing]

Simply put up your own custom arena.

It's much easier to go to the TA... You don't get shot down, but you will certainly recognize when you're getting hammered....

[Widewing]

this might be a typo but to clarify some aerodynamic stuff..

adverse yaw happens any time you move the ailerons and is countered by adding in rudder. by doing this you stay coordinated and retain more energy.

by not countering the effects of adverse yaw with the rudder you are flying uncoordinated and producing more drag.

True. A little rudder in the direction of the bank counters adverse yaw associated with the bank. However, when using the rudder to induce a roll you get adverse yaw into the roll. This is because you use full rudder displacement, which leads to adverse yaw in the direction of the bank. Big twins often suffer from worse adverse yaw than a single-engine aircraft due to the thrust lines being off center to the axis of flight.

[Karnak]

Widewing,

Do you use the F3 view for dogfighting in the A-20G?

I am not really concerned with air-to-ground.

[titanic3]

Well, the results are in:

A20 vs P51D - cobia
A20 vs P40N - cobia
A20 vs 109G6 - titan
A20 vs A6M3 - titan
A20 vs A6M5 - titan
A20 vs P38J - titan

Then we did A20 vs A20 twice, it was a tie (would've done more, but I had to log).

With the exception of the P40s and Zekes, I basically won by going vertical. The Zekes outclasses the A20 completely (as it should), though I was talking to cobia, and like I said before, he killed Zekes/Hurris by BnZing them but with an altitude advantage, in an equal E fight, Zeke wins hands down. The 51D fight was interesting. At first I was going vertical with him and although he couldn't get a shot on me, neither could I due to the crappy low speed handling. Once I started TnBing with cobia, the A20 won eventually after I used up all my E. 51D just kept snap stalling everytime I made a move under 100mph.

  Cobia, fun fights all around.

[Widewing]

Widewing,

Do you use the F3 view for dogfighting in the A-20G?

I am not really concerned with air-to-ground.

I use F3 to check my six... You can't see directly behind you at all in the A-20.

In a dogfight, I stay in the cockpit view. Switching to F3 doesn't get you anything unless the enemy is directly on your six.

[FLS]

True. A little rudder in the direction of the bank counters adverse yaw associated with the bank. However, when using the rudder to induce a roll you get adverse yaw into the roll. This is because you use full rudder displacement, which leads to adverse yaw in the direction of the bank. Big twins often suffer from worse adverse yaw than a single-engine aircraft due to the thrust lines being off center to the axis of flight.

Wouldn't that be better described as excess yaw since adverse yaw has a specific meaning unrelated to rudder use?

[JUGgler]

I use F3 to check my six... You can't see directly behind you at all in the A-20.

In a dogfight, I stay in the cockpit view. Switching to F3 doesn't get you anything unless the enemy is directly on your six.

I disagree Wide, the use of F3 during dogfights is far superior and we haven't even talked about the "below the nose" shots afforded by F3


JUGgler

[Widewing]

Well, the results are in:

A20 vs P51D - cobia
A20 vs P40N - cobia
A20 vs 109G6 - titan
A20 vs A6M3 - titan
A20 vs A6M5 - titan
A20 vs P38J - titan

Then we did A20 vs A20 twice, it was a tie (would've done more, but I had to log).

With the exception of the P40s and Zekes, I basically won by going vertical. The Zekes outclasses the A20 completely (as it should), though I was talking to cobia, and like I said before, he killed Zekes/Hurris by BnZing them but with an altitude advantage, in an equal E fight, Zeke wins hands down. The 51D fight was interesting. At first I was going vertical with him and although he couldn't get a shot on me, neither could I due to the crappy low speed handling. Once I started TnBing with cobia, the A20 won eventually after I used up all my E. 51D just kept snap stalling everytime I made a move under 100mph.

  Cobia, fun fights all around.

As I said before, "almost any fighter can beat the A-20 if the fighter's pilot has some basic ACM skills and adequate situational awareness".

Of course, the Zero can out-fly the A-20. In a duel, that is readily apparent. In the MA, it's different as the A-20 can disengage and run from any Zero quite easily below 5k.

The way to beat the A-20 is to get the pilot to dump his flaps to maneuver. That's when you push the fight up hill. I'm sure you discovered that today.

P-40s, F4F-4, P-39D and the like can have a tough time because the A-20 is as fast or faster, climbs better and holds E better (again, inertia at work). Once the P-40 bleeds off his E, the A-20 then takes the fight up hill. The P-39Q is another beast altogether. It's as fast as the P-38J/L at 10k, and climbs very well in WEP.

Once more, the A-20 succeeds in the MA because, "a good A-20 stick will exploit any lackadaisical flying or lack of urgency. These guys do what they do because what they do is usually unexpected."

The A-20 relies on the other guy helping it to win... Poor flying, low skill level, lack of SA, etc... Yet, even in a 1v1 duel, the A-20 can be very surprising.

Since you've now dueled against and in the A-20, I imagine you now know how good A-20 sticks do so well. It's a pretty capable ride for a bomber and can take advantage of any lapse to kill opposing fighters.

Now, when I can get some time, perhaps you can meet me in the TA and we'll explore the A-20 further and the ridiculous low-speed maneuverability of the Boston.  

[Widewing]

I disagree Wide, the use of F3 during dogfights is far superior and we haven't even talked about the "below the nose" shots afforded by F3


JUGgler

I should have been more specific.. I was referring to a 1v1 fight. In a furball, F3 is a huge advantage. Then again, in a furball, the A-20 is a huge target... Also, I don't shoot from F3. I try to practice what I preach.

[Widewing]

Wouldn't that be better described as excess yaw since adverse yaw has a specific meaning unrelated to rudder use?

Yes, excess yaw is the correct term. The result is still the scrubbing off of speed.

[Noir]

An a20 is roughly 2meters longer and larger and weights 2 tons more than a bf110, nothing that can justify it to be MUCH tougher.

[titanic3]

As I said before, "almost any fighter can beat the A-20 if the fighter's pilot has some basic ACM skills and adequate situational awareness".

Of course, the Zero can out-fly the A-20. In a duel, that is readily apparent. In the MA, it's different as the A-20 can disengage and run from any Zero quite easily below 5k.

The way to beat the A-20 is to get the pilot to dump his flaps to maneuver. That's when you push the fight up hill. I'm sure you discovered that today.

P-40s, F4F-4, P-39D and the like can have a tough time because the A-20 is as fast or faster, climbs better and holds E better (again, inertia at work). Once the P-40 bleeds off his E, the A-20 then takes the fight up hill. The P-39Q is another beast altogether. It's as fast as the P-38J/L at 10k, and climbs very well in WEP.

Once more, the A-20 succeeds in the MA because, "a good A-20 stick will exploit any lackadaisical flying or lack of urgency. These guys do what they do because what they do is usually unexpected."

The A-20 relies on the other guy helping it to win... Poor flying, low skill level, lack of SA, etc... Yet, even in a 1v1 duel, the A-20 can be very surprising.

Since you've now dueled against and in the A-20, I imagine you now know how good A-20 sticks do so well. It's a pretty capable ride for a bomber and can take advantage of any lapse to kill opposing fighters.

Now, when I can get some time, perhaps you can meet me in the TA and we'll explore the A-20 further and the ridiculous low-speed maneuverability of the Boston.  

Sure, DA, TA, MA, whatever works for you.  Although I don't think I know your IGN.

[Rich46yo]

If that is the case it seems that F3 view should be removed from the A-20G.

Not enough GV'ers whining about getting kilt by them, and then turning into MR. Hyde and saying the real reason is cause F3 gives to much advantage in ATA combat. Its a simple matter to take out Ords and 8 0.50s aint gonna kill a Tiger.

If they could you can bet the hordes of the righteous would indignantly demand F3 be taken away from the A20 and it be sent to the FH cause, "Its to deadly an ATA fighter".

I used to show restraint against GVs in IL2s. No messing with GV bases and most of the time no bombing them. Now I say blast them, and their cunning denizens, into smithereeens. OOPs! Kinda raged off topic didnt I? Apologies.

[Widewing]

Sure, DA, TA, MA, whatever works for you.  Although I don't think I know your IGN.

It's TredLite...