Author Topic: The law?  (Read 1740 times)

Offline Eagler

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The law?
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2002, 08:45:15 AM »
dam those feds anyway, what are they trying to do PROTECT US?? How dare they!

:rolleyes:

"Paranoia big destroya ......."

Better safe than sorry guys.
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Offline Hortlund

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Re: "Just because the government says doesn't make it right"
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2002, 08:49:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Gee, after sticking a foot in your mouth, I would think you would know better than to do it again. ;)

There's nothing"random" about that quote, maybe you should read our Constitution when you get a break from chasing ambulances.

It may not be illegal, if it is I'm sure the thug Ashcroft will see that a loophole is found PDQ.

To deny a citizen due process under constitutional law sets a very bad precedent for the future....and illegal or not is just - wrong. [/B]


Oh, if you only knew how random your use of that quote is Weazel. Let me try to explain. I posted this to Nashwan a long time ago in a thread far far away. I'd say it applies to you too:

I'm not trying to be mean or patronizing or anything. I have tried to say that these things are really complex. I know people who have spend half their life pondering over these questions and still they cant say exactly what the law is in some cases. Most of these rules are open to interpretation, and I can understand how you feel that you have support by interpreting the law in one way or the other. But it is more complicated than that. You cant just open a lawbook and look at paragraph 1 where it says "It is forbidden to destroy property" and go "AHA, I'm right, here is the proof!", and then fail to keep reading down to paragraph 2 where it says "except in these circumstances …". This is pretty much exactly what you are doing right now. You just cant grab some quotes and paste it here as some kind of proof. You have to realize that it is more complicated than that.

So whenever you feel the urge to quote your constitution to prove a point the next time. Try to realize that just reading the constitution really wont get you that far. You'd better read all the supreme court verdicts from 17-something up to now too, and you'd better read all the other laws while youre at it too, as well as the supreme court verdicts regarding those too. THEN you can start talking.

NOW, if you want to express opinions instead, well thats fine.

Offline Eagler

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The law?
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2002, 08:53:33 AM »
Psst... listen up

It's the ones that don't make the media you have to be afraid of .... :eek:


The big bad gov can make anyone at anytime disappear. It aint new......

LOL
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Offline Apache

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The law?
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2002, 09:02:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


Fine then. They should display this evidence in court.

Who knows? The next person they drag off just might be you.


Why should it be me? I've nothing to fear from the law. I'm not a terrorist nor have any afiliation with such. I abide by and uphold the law. Why should any that do fear being....the next?

Offline Wingnut_0

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The law?
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2002, 09:22:37 AM »
Here we go again, another thread where Hortlund talks circles again and takes the stance that if the Gov says he did it, well then he did it and end of story.

#1: Does the Gov probably know more than their saying?  Yea most likely.

#2: If he is in league with terrorists should he be let go clean w/o evidence?  No one is saying that.

Holding a person for a limited time to gain a warrant happens all the time.  In my State, police can hold you for 24 hours while they apply for a warrant before actually charging you.  Most other states have similar laws.

The problem I have period, is that the Gov will hold this guy for months before ever presenting any evidence against him.  Right after 9/11 we had a man in the local jail for 3 1/2 months held on no crime, but the Gov said he was foreign so he had to be held.

3 1/2 months...locked up with no crime, no evidence against him, not even being told why he was locked up.  If this Jose is guilty of a crime then they should be presenting the evidence (Closed Grand Jury) not sitting on him for ever till they pin something on him.

There is the problem.  Who says, ok this guy rights will be forfeited now.  No matter how noble the intentions, leaving your guiding principals to the side, waving them off when you feel it's conveinent is the problem.

Ppl in America have become dumb to what ever the Government says is ok.  I've served my military, worked as a Police Officer but frankly I dont' trust my Government fully.  That's why their's checks and balances that are suppose to be in place.  That's why we have all these dam court rules...etc.  Once you start throwing them aside it just opens up the possibility of abuse and the abuse of the US Constitution is far more a threat than a physical attack upon it's borders.

Offline blah

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The law?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2002, 09:40:24 AM »
WAR IS PEACE. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Offline AKSWulfe

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The law?
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2002, 09:40:37 AM »
So basically everyone who is opposed to giving this guy the rights he deserves for being an American citizen and being arrested in America don't really know what the whole story is... just what the media has told you, and the media got all their info from big brotha.

A citizen would be arrested for breaking the law, you people cheer on the government when they do it. If they have the evidence to show he's an actual terrorist with ties to Al Qaeda or some other terrorist group- then they'd have no problem hauling him into court and getting an easy conviction... now would they? So what is REALLY going on here?
-SW

Offline Sandman

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The law?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2002, 10:03:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

Suppose the evidence in this case is a couple of phonecalls, as well as a "secret meeting" between the terrorist and OBL (or whoever). If the Government would present these evidence in court, it would at the same time tell Al Queida "Yes, we can listen to your phonecalls, and yes, one of the guys in that secret meeting is one of our agents".


Would this be the same agent that knows the location of OBL?


:rolleyes:
sand

Offline Eagler

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So what is REALLY going on here?
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2002, 10:07:01 AM »
Not sure but I sure wish those big black helicopters would stop following me & what's that click on the phone line evertime I pick up the receiver, and who's the guy in the trench coat, hat and sunglasses who follows me everytime I walk out of the building ....

:)
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Offline AKSWulfe

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The law?
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2002, 10:11:37 AM »
That's not what I was going after Eagler. Try something more along the lines of... why is this guy being detained without a trial? Why are his rights being ignored? What damning evidence to they have that will guarantee this guy death by hanging/firingsquad/gettin' it in da butt in jail/etc.? We only know what's been told to us... and that could be the truth or a complete BS story... we know NOTHING compared to what the government knows or may not know or have completely fabricated. Just be careful when you pick up the pitchfork and rally behind Big G when the whole thing could simply be a bold faced lie to save the government some face in light of Sept 11th.

I'm not worried about them coming after me... I'm worried about the lawmakers completely ignoring the law.
-SW

Offline AKIron

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The law?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2002, 10:12:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


You're wrong.


If the past is any indicator of the future he is exactly right.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Re: So what is REALLY going on here?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2002, 10:21:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
who's the guy in the trench coat, hat and sunglasses who follows me everytime I walk out of the building ....

:)


That be me, Eagler, but no worries bud. I'm not an agent, I'm a flasher. See, my pants legs are cut off and duct taped to my knees. Next time you turn around I'm giving you a free peek. :)

Offline Eagler

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The law?
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2002, 10:22:01 AM »
What diff is it? Was he a model citizen? What trash did they really remove from society?
Or did they "make up" his past criminal activities to justify their latest actions??  :rolleyes:

WARNING: Thread Hijack Attempt

Why is it that so many losers in prison turn to Islam? Is it the violent undercurrent of that religion against America and the system which locked them up?  Why all the AA (African American - get tired of writing that out :)) converts? Being exposed to Christianity, do they see Islam as " the grass is greener on the other side" religion? Just wondering ...
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Offline Sandman

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The law?
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2002, 10:23:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron


If the past is any indicator of the future he is exactly right.


So... the only people complaining about the CIA and FBI are "civil rights people?"

Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Prisoner of war?  Wotan, you sound like you're with al queda on this.  Why such a strong committment to the defense of a scumbag like Padilla, who yes, is a scumbag, only worse.  Traitor perhaps, spy most likely.  Why spring to the defense of Padilla so fast?  Addressed to Sandman, Weasel and Easymo also.

Les


Please understand that we are not defending Padilla in any way. The government has made an accusation and has incarcerated the man. The government has also stated that there will be no trial. There will be no military tribunal. The man is being held with complete disregard of due process.

Pick a traitor... Ames, Walker, Boone... etc. All were tried in court.

Maybe Padilla is guilty. Guilty or not, he deserves to be charged and have his day in court.
sand

Offline AKIron

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The law?
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2002, 10:25:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
John. If they have such damning evidence, why don't they just present it in an open court?  The American people are NOT in a lenient mood right now. It would take almost nothing to convince a court that he joined a foreign army.

  You don't know the guy.  All you know about him is what the government has told the newsweinies.  Your ready to hang him with that? We could all be in deep doo doo.


I can think of at least one very good reason why not to try him in an open court. Evidence would be revealed to the public. Much of this evidence would likely reveal not only under cover agents but also methods in place for catching these enemies of the U.S. I'm not saying anything new here, it's been said before.

Things change when you are at war. Even though most continue life in their usual routine, we are at war.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.