Charlton Heston's speech

[Hortlund]

Oh COME ON...that is simply ludicrous.
Lets see then what rules a college student must keep in mind if he wants to make out with his new found love:

CONSENT
1. For the purpose of this policy, "consent" shall be defined as follows:

the act of willingly and verbally agreeing to engage in specific sexual behavior.

See (4) below when sexual behavior is mutually and simultaneously initiated.

Because of the importance of communication and the potential dangers when misunderstanding exists in a sexual situation, those involved in any sexual interaction need to share enough of a common understanding to be able to adequately communicate: 1) requests for consent; and, 2) when consent is given, denied or withdrawn.

Note: Recognized American and international sign languages are considered a form of verbal language for the purpose of this policy.

2. When sexual behavior is not mutually and simultaneously initiated, then the person who initiates sexual behavior is responsible for verbally asking for the consent of the other individual(s) involved.

3. The person with whom sexual contact/conduct is initiated shall verbally express his/her willingness or must verbally express consent, and/or express his/her lack of willingness by words, actions, gestures, or any other previously agreed upon communication.

Silence and/or non-communication must never be interpreted as consent.

4. When sexual behavior is mutually and simultaneously initiated, then the persons involved share responsibility for getting/giving or refusing/denying consent by words, actions, gestures or by any other previously agreed upon communication.

5. Obtaining consent is an on-going process in any sexual interaction. Verbal consent should be obtained with each new level of physical and/or sexual behavior in any given interaction, regardless of who initiates it. Asking "Do you want to have sex with me?" is not enough. The request for consent must be specific to each act.

6. If someone has initially consented but then stops consenting during a sexual interaction, she/he should communicate withdrawal of consent verbally (example: saying "no" or "stop") and/or through
physical resistance (example: pushing away). The other individual(s) must stop immediately.

7. In order for consent to be meaningful and valid under this policy:
a) the person not initiating must have judgment and control unimpaired by any drug or intoxicant administered to prevent her/his resistance, and/or which has been administered surreptitiously, by force or threat of force, or by deception;
b) the person not initiating must have judgment and control unimpaired by mental dysfunction which is known to the person initiating;
c) the person not initiating must not be asleep or unconscious;
d) the person initiating must not have forced, threatened, coerced, or intimidated the other individual(s) into engaging in sexual behavior.

8. To knowingly take advantage of someone who is under the influence of alcohol, drugs, prescribed or over-the-counter medication is not acceptable behavior in the Antioch community.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Montezuma


Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!

 ...You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, Damn you! Golly-geen you all to hell!


 Tronsky

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The Extremism, Racism, Sexism, Legal Woes, and Gun Industry Ties of the National Rifle Association's Board of Directors.

The more blatant racists all seem to like Heston's Cultural War speeches.

Why is that?

I read the article, and even checked out a couple more articles.  I don't know Sandman... seems kind of a stretch making Ted Nugent out to be a racist, despite what the article quotes him saying.  I think it was meant to be humorous.  I thought it was, anyway.  Written words can be misleading, because often the same word in a language has different meanings when spoken, i.e. inflections, or extra weight given to syllables, tone, intent, etc...

The other example, of the guy using the word Nip to refer to Japanese.  In what context was he speaking?  That term is only associated with WWII, to the best of my knowledge.  I rarely here it.  When was the last time you heard it?  

These two are outspoken, and I'm sure, colorful characters...but I didn't read anything connotating racism on their part.

Violence Policy Center is a lobby group diametrically opposed to the NRA.  They use terms like "gun culture" to describe American traditions such as hunting and target shooting.  They refer to  semi-auto rifles as assault weapons, because they look like military weapons.  They see training children in the proper use of firearms, as an introduction to mayhem in our schools, and, as having the ulterior motive of boosting profits to the "gun" industry.  Their comparison of Eddie Eagle to Joe Camel, to get kids hooked on guns, was when I had to come back and make this post.

I guess you can tell, I'm a member of the NRA, however I also critically examine this organization, and don't always agree with some of their ideas.  I am a member because I truly believe, they are the only entity powerful enough to call some of our legislators to task, when they try to circumvent our Constitution...and our laws.

Les

[Rude]

Some of you guys sure love to hear yourselves talk, all the while saying absolutley nothing.

[Shuckins]

Sandman,

Read the article on the NRA.  Nice objective, unbiased piece of journalism, judging by the tone and the adjectives used.  The authors tried to tie every idiot in the country to the NRA.  You don't think they could possibly have their own agenda do ya?  

By the way, Ted Nugent is an idiot.  We can both agree on that.  

Shake the stem of any organization as large as the NRA and a few racists are gonna fall out;  NAACP, Republican Party, Democratic Party, Sierra Club, you name it.

Unfortunately for the NRA, it has a lot of enemies that attempt to convince the American public that the membership of the NRA is made up of extremists.  And it isn't.  Stereotyping is generally frowned upon by the mainstream media, but they routinely use it themselves whenever discussing the NRA.  Most of the members live in rural areas of the country who feel that they are being squeezed into a mold by the dominant urban culture of the United States;  a culture that has become so divorced from country life and the shooting sports that it may as well have developed on another planet.

Regards, Shuckins

[GRUNHERZ]

Elfenwolf I am as much a racist as you are a child molestor.

And Sandman was the first to bring in racism to the discussion, or do you expect us think the David Duke reference was not an attempt to paint Heston as a racist?

Or will you pull a weazel defense on this point Elfenwolf:

"I'm fully aware Duke is a racist, and my moniker isn't sandman.
Why should I answer a "point" addressed to him?"


And waezel your last response is at least the second or third post in a row where you avoid criticizing the arguments and just continue with the insults and smart bellybutton superiority.  Forgive me if I start to believe you have nothing constructive to say and begin scrolling a bit more myself....

[Elfenwolf]

Grunherz, I felt Sandman's David Duke reference was meant to explain why he didn't like Chuck's speech- because an extremist like David Duke did and Sandman is 180 degrees in opposition with anything David Duke says. Really, I thought SM explained it clearly and you're reading more into it than is actually there. It was a good speech actually, and his speech writers and editors did a fine job on writing it.

Shuckins, I don't have the time nor the inclination, nor do I wish to wreck a fine Sunday morning on the subject, to go into my contempt for Hanoi Jane Fonda. However, many leftists feel she's no more extremist than Charlton Heston is. Sorry, I read your entire post, but the role reference jumped out at me. Basically I agree our values and culture are changing and I'll agree it's not changing for the better. Of course EVERY older generation throughout mankind's history has lamented the loss of old values and traditions as the younger generation has emerged. I guess we're typical.

Rude, blab blab blab blab blab blab blab. Yak yak YAK yak? blab blab blab. Yak yak yak yak YAK yak yak, you yak yakker.

Hortlund, don't worry. these "Rules of Copulation" are basically ignored here in America. Actually they're pretty laughable- how in the Hell could a guy ever get laid if the girl wasn't passed out drunk? Sheeesh, we'd ALL still be virgins.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Sandman,

Read the article on the NRA.  Nice objective, unbiased piece of journalism, judging by the tone and the adjectives used.  The authors tried to tie every idiot in the country to the NRA.  You don't think they could possibly have their own agenda do ya?  

Of course it's biased. The bait doesn't stink unless it's biased.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Lets just see how truthful Chuck was:




The JAMA says -  Implementation of the current national policy at the local level poses significant human rights burdens on HCWs (Health Care Workers), but does not improve patient safety. (in other words New Jersey is correct)

So despite aids infected dentist killing a few  people the real tragedy would be the human rights infringement on the dentist?

So if people were given the information necessary to decide whether they want an aids infected dentist to put his hands in their mouth and choose to go to another dentist this is the true  tragedy far out weighing the risk of death? Not matter how great the odds you are saying that folks dont have the right to decide whether they want the risk or not?

Typical liberal babble. putting the feelings of some "special class" over the real life effect it may have on people.

The left loves aids and aids infected folks. They use them to show the rest of us how compassionate they are. Never do they hold the aids "victim" (as if it some kinda crime that was commited against them) to task for the behavior that put them at risk. Then they blame others for not wanting to take a "risk" themselves.


Humans rights burden

[weazel]

Psssttt, don't tell anyone but....David Duke is a "conservative" Republican, you should be proud of him since he is one of your political brethren.

It's funny how the so called "conservative" political movement appeals to and attracts so many nutbags isn't it?

Yes I insulted you, I'm surprised you recognized it.

I consider the word "conservative" an  insult more vulgar than most any other, the reason being that liars are one of the things I detest most.....and since the "conservative" political movement is founded on lies......

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Elfenwolf I am as much a racist as you are a child molestor.

And Sandman was the first to bring in racism to the discussion, or do you expect us think the David Duke reference was not an attempt to paint Heston as a racist?

Or will you pull a weazel defense on this point Elfenwolf:

"I'm fully aware Duke is a racist, and my moniker isn't sandman.
Why should I answer a "point" addressed to him?"


And waezel your last response is at least the second or third post in a row where you avoid criticizing the arguments and just continue with the insults and smart bellybutton superiority.  Forgive me if I start to believe you have nothing constructive to say and begin scrolling a bit more myself....

[GRUNHERZ]

Grunherz, I felt Sandman's David Duke reference was meant to explain why he didn't like Chuck's speech- because an extremist like David Duke did and Sandman is 180 degrees in opposition with anything David Duke says. Really, I thought SM explained it clearly and you're reading more into it than is actually there. It was a good speech actually, and his speech writers and editors did a fine job on writing it.

Elfenwolf:

Thank you for the reasoned explanation of how you took that, I respect that. I just saw it as bit more because in my personal  experience many on the left often try to immediately equate such positions as held by Heston with extreme things like racism and bigotry rather than to actually debate them.

I will even chance an honest to you!

weazel:

I still wait for a worthy response from you.....  Or will we all get yet another spate of insults and superior hate filled indignation from you as has so far been the case?

[Elfenwolf]

Well, why were the dentist's patients so willing to have unprotected sex with him? Because that's just about the only way you can catch HIV from a dentist- oh, you could also share a needle with him, I guess. but catching HIV from a cavity being pulled? I doubt it.

The Right hates AIDS and AIDS-infected persons. They think they're sick perverts who are getting exactly what they deserve. They are so terrified of AIDS they fear getting the disease through hand shaking, sharing a pizza or swimming in a public pool. Then they blame the Left that HIV-infected people are allowed to remain in society.

[Hortlund]

Elf, retorics aside. Do you agree that it should be my choice?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Grunherz, I felt Sandman's David Duke reference was meant to explain why he didn't like Chuck's speech- because an extremist like David Duke did and Sandman is 180 degrees in opposition with anything David Duke says. Really, I thought SM explained it clearly and you're reading more into it than is actually there. It was a good speech actually, and his speech writers and editors did a fine job on writing it.

Some of the statements regarding the culture war fit rather nicely within the agendas of the White Aryan Resistance, StormFront, KKK, etc...

To Heston's credit, it's not his fault that the white supremist and white seperatist groups have usurped all notions of pride in our own caucasian heritage.

Still, when racist groups start turning you into a poster boy for their own agenda, it's probably a good time to step back and shut the hell up.

FWIW, I agree with Heston on some points. Celtic pride is just as valid as African pride.

I don't think he spoke about affirmative action in this speech, but I agree with him on that issue as well. It's racially prejudicial and wrong.

I disagree with him WRT to Antioch Ohio. I understand completely that the school put the rules in place to protect the school from litigation. It's not about the students.

2nd Amendment scholars? Do they work for the NRA? The entire argument about the 2nd Amendment only exists because it's so poorly written. If it weren't, we wouldn't need "scholars" to understand it. We also wouldn't need the NRA.

WRT to Ice-T... Why is it that everyone gets there panties in a wad if a rapper sings about committing a crime, but no one ever worries about actors portraying criminals? Hell... Heston and the rest probably did more for Body Count album sales than they could have dreamed for. Of course... we gotta keep an eye on those militant gangsta rappers. Afterall, the majority of rap and hip hop albums are purchased by white people.

WRT the sexual harrassment issue with elementary school kids. Again... it's not about sex. It's about litigation. The safest thing the school can do is turn 'em in. Let the courts sort it out and decide if it's silly. End result is that there's no fiscal impact to the school.

Oh... and I like this. "When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you ... petition them, oust them, banish them." I wonder what Chuck thinks of the Bush regime. Or maybe this is just another right wing rant about Bill's noodle.

Grun... you have the nasty habit of jumping to a particular conclusion and then demanding an argument over your conclusion. I didn't particularly feel like playing this round.

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf


What, to know this dentist's medical history? Not unless there's a legitimate chance your health would be jeopardized. I'm not sure an HIV- infected dentist is a health risk to a patient. My Cousin died of AIDS several years ago. When he got too sick to live on his own he lived with us. We took no more precautions with sharing cups, dishes, whatever than we would with anybody and we were at virtually no risk of getting HIV from him. How could you be at risk from a dentist?

edit for spelling grr