P51 Runners...

[Wotan]

Drunky is correct BnZ has nothing to do with running. Nor does "E" fighting. Karnak gave an accurate description of what I was saying.

Read his post.

I also added a disclaimer to my posts that if you dont or claim you dont run then my comments do not apply to you. Which part of that didn't you get?

gross stereotype about pony pilots is sadly inaccurate

It most definately is a stereotype but like all styreotypes they are some what based on fact. Just this stereotyope is more factual then most others.

I also made it clear several times that I care not how folks choose to fly. Thats totally up to them. Run, TnB, suicide jabo or whatever just get a thicker skin when someone points it out.

[Steve]

You're insults of me, while off the mark.. are almost amusing.  Actually, I don't vulch any more than the next guy..maybe even less so now that I'm a rook. Of course you write that I vulch because it seems inconceivable to you that anyone not in your squad, especially in a pony, could get kills "legitimately". Typically our low #'s means we're defensive more than offensive. Not always of course..but more often than not.  If it's apparent to you that I'm trying to convince myself I'm "good" here is yet another indication of your poor judgement.  You are the one that brought up stats like k/d, kills per sortie. I merely compared the stats you were using as the basis of your point.  When these stats worked against you, you changed your argument to time on line and kills per hour, with a personal insult or two for kicks. A commendable attempt to continue the debate yet it's a crystal clear indication that you've lost the point. As for kills per hour.. I usually go to attack mode only when doin somethin silly or one of sure death so really the only stat that matters there is k/d in fiters.. oh ya, mine's higher than yours...you won't like that. Since you decided to get personal and talk about me "getting a life" because i play AH so much.. let's look at you in the same light.
Hmmm tour 14 you spent 129 hours, tour 15 you spent 117, tour 16 you spent 117 as well.  So it seems my busiest month so far is significantly less than several of yours... I didn't bother to check all of yours.. my point was made after I found the first one.. finding three just drives it home.

[J_A_B]

So  what's wrong with pointing out that D-9's have just as much of a "runner reputation" as P-51's have?  

J_A_B

[Urchin]

 Well let's look at kills per sortie... Oh my.. NOT ONE of your fantastic D9 pilots has a kill per sortie even close to mine. Gee Wotan, what do these number mean?  Take your time and come up with something clever if ya like.. but the bottom line is your gross stereotype about pony pilots is sadly inaccurate.  Additionally, if you're going to stick with your intimation that D9 pilots, your squad included, BnZ less than pony pilots do then you need to come fly in the same arena the rest of us do.

Actually bud... this fantastic Dora pilots K/S is pretty darn close to yours.  When I checked it was 2.76 (you) vs 2.75 (me).  Close in my book anyway.  

Don't think I've ever fought you, so I can't make real accurate observations as to how good you are.  I can say that your K/T is lower than mine, and I'm a pretty cautious pilot in the MA under most circumstances.  I don't think that a 'gross stereotype' of P51s as 'runners' is really all that innaccurate.  Course, quite a few Doras run too, so it does cut both ways.

[poopster]

Kicks open the lawn chair and grabs a cold one...

[Steve]

My pardon... I know your gang doesn't fly strictly for numbers.. was just using them as a point of debate since it was the data being referred to.  Let me be plain: Your squad is a fine group of sticks and for the most part a pleasure to fly with. I could have made my point in a different slant.. I certainly didn't intend to belittle your gang.. had the pleasure of flying with them as a knight and I felt that your squad was an excellent group. I was merely trying to offer a counterpoint to the 51 argument and to Wotans assertions about the D9.  Unfortunately, the debate has gotten ugly, but from what I've experienced, this is quite typical of Wotan..quick to argue, quick to get personal, quick to insult if he doesn't like the way a conversation is going.

[Steve]

We have encountered each other once as far as I know, I shot you down.  Wait wait wait... don't fret.. it was in a furball in which we were both engaged with multiple contacts and certainly not a reflection of my skills against yours.  Our stats do seem quite close, I stand...or sit as this case may be, corrected
I am merely trying to make the point that the "51 runner" thing is blown out of proportion.. I'm confident that there are just as many la7 and d9 runners(in ratio to total numbers) as ponies... there are just many more ponies out there than these other planes...odd too... I have flown the D9 some in my brief tenure here.. seems like a great ride..sturdier and more lethal than the pony.

[Drunky]

Originally posted by Karnak
In my experience the P-51D and La-7 are most likely to turn tail and run when they lose the advantage.

By run I'm using Wotan's definition.  They flee until you get bored and break off, then they come back or until they join up with a bunch of friendlies.  They aren't simply extending so that they have the distance to reverse.  They're running until they see you break off, then they come back, seemingly hoping that you won't notice and will be flying nice and level and easy kill.

Just posting for reference

Good definition for the original subject of this post

Other planes run too is not an argument.  That sounds like middle school rationalization.  Just because other do it does not mean a) that you don't do it more and b) that it's okay to do it.

I think J_A_B also has a good point...It's the pilot more than the plane.  I believe that the P-51 is good at high altitudes, carries substantial armament and handles speed well.

Please remember, it's easy to gain alt, find a con and drop on him but it's harder to miss and then engage when you lose that alt/E/speed advantage

BTW...Steve, please break up your text with 'Enter' from time to time...it's hard on the eyes mate

[Urchin]

Oh yea, I'd agree that just as many Doras run in proportion to their total numbers as Pony's.  Just more Pony's in the MA is all.

[Yeager]

Im a runner but hell, the P51 aint at fault!  I run in everything

[WldThing]

No Comment.

Kicks open the lawn chair and grabs a cold one...

Pass 1 over poopster...

[Steve]

Thanks for the lessons..again some time?

[MrLars]

Woa, ummm, I didn't start this to get a XX plane runs more than XX plane debate going. If one is in a fast plane and finds himself at a disadvantage then there's nothing wrong with turning tail and gettin' outta Dodge IMO.

My original post came out of frustration and bewilderment at why 2 P51's would turn tail and run from a fight above 20K against a lone F6F where they had the advantage...nothing more...well, maybe to get the message across that running when you have the advantage is not the way to rack up kills

Hell, when I see a P51, La7 or 190 I take it for granted they won't turn and fight to my planes strengths...so I just try to make sure I either save my E and try to equalize or, in most cases, play his game but a bit smarter than him so I can catch him on the zoom. Either way is fine for me since I have absolutly no trouble catching most of them and sending them back to the tower;)

[Hornet]

Runstang and run-90 dweebs arguing over who runs the most......hehehe i like this thread. This one gets 5 stars

LOL

[Wotan]

I am not gonna keep repeating myself and if some of yas cant understand what it is I have said in all my previous replies then theres nothing I can do.

No one said other planes dont run.

The reference I gave to my squad and the 190 was to show that % of kills per tour are not an indication of usage. The 190d9 is flown less then its kills % per tour indicates, while the opposite is true for the p51. See my replies above.

There are far more 51s in the arena then most other planes. Lotsa of umm run (see karnaks post for a good description of "running"). If that offends you, so what.

Steve you seem to think I care about your scores of even your skillz. I could careless.

But to clear some stuff up, I dont fly the d9 more then any other plane. I just have more kills in it. I fly every lw plane in AH. From the ju88 to the arado to the 109e4 to the 262. The only exception is occassionally I use the zeke for base defense and I flew 2 sorties in the dhog this tour because my squad is facing a Navy squad in the 1st round of the squad v squad tourney.



I spend more "time" in the g6 then any other plane. Its slow and I only fly it with 30mm. I also deack and attack ground objects while in fighter mode. So you may be convinced that your k/d of 5 only flying a 51 makes you great and my small k/d of 4 makes me terrible all you want. I am at best mediocre so comparing your skillz to mine hardly means much.

None of this has anything to do with this thread. Deny , deflect, distort all you want. The facts are you are much likely to have a 51 run (again I refer you to karnaks post) then any other plane.

If this doesnt apply to you great, but its still true.

Also, I make no judgement how any of you fly but dont deny what the original poster was saying. Because we all know its true.