Where Fur and Strat Collide...

[Toad]

Works for me, Drunky!

Somehow, though, I don't think it'd work as an MA for the Stratroller crowd.  

[muckmaw]

I assume this is not a concept for an entire MA map, but a small section of a MA map?

If this is the idea for an entire MA map, I don't see how it can be implemented without having serious ramifications on squads who like to furball together, but fly different planes.

One of the guys in the TAS said the same thing.

I would assume the lack of Strat must imply that this is the idea for only a small section of a MA map.

I think Slapshot said it best. The furballers need to take one step at a time. Get your mini-arena first, then work on a Mini-late war, mini-mid, mini-early, and mini CV.

First step is to get the mini-furball arena, period.

Also, the map shown would pose a problem in that there are too many fields, and if uncapturable, would make the Map impossible to reset.

Unless of course, your going to allow base capture in each of those mini-arenas, which means you'll have to enable troops, and bombs, and this will lead to fuel porking, etc.

Will 22% of the Furball crowd log off if the Mid-war arena is taken by one country? Once they're out, the 40K mountains keep them out...

Any ideas?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Mr. Toad
I realize you came late to the AH party but it's exactly those ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion that brought this game from the premier air combat game that debuted as a beta to the ...... um..... well, whatever the heck it is now, but it sure isn't focused on ACM anymore.

So you can't have it both ways beet. You're actually quite happy with ad-hoc "nudges", "tweaks", or other fixes which are designed to influence gameplay in a particular fashion as long as you like the particular fashion.

And you simply won't have anyone disagreeing with you, will you?

Tell me... without dodging.. the answers to these two simple questions:

1. Do you approve of the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena that is currently available on Trinity, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for tankers to have mindless fun?

2. Would you approve of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena on a map, knowing it has no real affect on overall MA strat and just exists to provide a place for fighter pilots to have mindless fun?

Tell me the answers to those two and how they fit with your views on tweaks and nudges.

I don't want it both ways. But I don't want "hardness" tinkered with purely at the behest of a mere subset of AH subscribers. The only people who want that are those who want to make it more difficult (read impossible) for buffs/jabos to succeed. I have even seen furballers call for the radar at HQ to be "hardened" - presumably because they're too damn lazy (or too busy furballing) to defend it. If these changes are enacted, the buffs/jabos will simply give up - and that's what the hardcore furballers really want. Do not tell me that such changes are deemed to be "enhancements" to the game. They are not. They are changes designed to favour a particular subset of players - red sig text applies.

The guys clamouring for fuel porkage/strat hardness to be addressed can't be bothered or don't know how to defend against it. Let's put the boot on the other foot for a moment, and imagine if a F6F dweeb complained of being shot down - because he couldn't be bothered to evade, or didn't know how to: How do you think his calls for fighter ammo to be softened would be received?

In answer to your two questions: [list=1]

• Trinity tank town is fine - totally unrealistic, but can be a lot of fun. Trinity was not the first map to have tank fields which had no bearing on the rest of the game. Pizza (the outer crust) has that feature too. I sometimes go to tank town myself for a bit of nonsense.
• The furball arena within an arena - equally pointless, but fun for some. Why not? But if it's modelled in Lazs's image (with a 50,000' wall around it) then I don't see the difference between that scenario, and having two separate arenas. That being the case, I see no reason for the furballers not to use the DA.

It has been mentioned that having such lookaside areas, or arenas within arenas, a map reset becomes difficult or impossible. I would say that map reset is a moot point these days. Even when a reset occurs, the system resets to the same map.

[Drunky]

This map would be put into a seperate arena or in the SEA when not in use.

It would be simply for the furball crowd who care not for the use of strat.

Fields would be uncapturable and would allow for the most exposure of furballing; between airfield, cv's, cv based, and tanks.

[Drunky]

I quit trying to help as of this point.

It becomes more and more clear that certain people wish nothing more than to argue between themselves as little has been written that can be discribed as suggestions.

This post has gone 5 pages and what does it show?  Very little in the way of suggestions but many miles of quoting each other and refuting the other's perspective.  If would seem that some people prefer to verbally joust more than they prefer to fly.

If you wish to implode upon your avarices, then be my guest.  I wash my hands of you all at this point.

I haven't been in the MA for sometime and I am reminded of the reasons every time I read many of your posts.  I will continue to reside in the CT.

I had hoped desperately that we could foster a new place that I could enjoy flying against some of the best pilots that we have in AH without distraction.  But apparently our own egos or selfish desires has reduced a grander scheme to petty bickering match in which we are all the losers.

I looked forwar to flying against Lasz in early-war planes and testing not only his skill but my own.  I had also looked forward to flying against Rude in his P51-d for the same reason.  I don't think that I would win those contest but I would have learned nonetheless.  These are just two examples.

Too bad it will never happen

Long live the dream, the dream is dead.

It seems that few read my posts and even fewer respond.  Go then, there are other worlds than this.

[nopoop]

I'm not for reinventing the wheel, fields a little closer.. the .75 number is minimum, sounds about right.

Adjustments to ease the fuel porkage issue and give it a whirl..

[muckmaw]

Actually, I think this is one of the most constructive threads we've ever done, and the animosity has been held to a minimum. (Well, after the first 2 pages, anyway)

I think I can summarize my position.

I want the furballers to have their area to play in the MA equivalent to Tank Town. I don't want to see any particular plane type excluded from this mini-arena, as this would eliminate the choice of planes so many fiercly defend whenever the perk issue comes up.

I don't believe in multiple mini-arenas for different aircraft classes (Early-Mid-Late)

I don't want to see any more concessions made by the Strats for the sake of Furballs. (See changes to Bombers...way back when)

Frankly, and I know this is going to bother some, but it must be said....I'm happy the way AH is. Could it be better? Sure. Could we make it worse by tweaking too much? Sure.

Do we have a say in what happens? Nope. Remember, this is all academic. Skuzzy may listen, and offer advice, and I'm sure HT wants to keep the bulk of his customers happy, but when It's all said and done, Hi-Tech makes the decision.

If he see's subscriptions going up, or at least remaining steady..and by the number of new names I've seen, I think they're going up, he won't want to change a thing.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic. Just realistic.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Toad
Slap,

First of all, get indestructible ack out of your head. Ain't no way HT will go for that, even if it is possible in the present coding. Nah gunna do it. Ain't gunna happen. studmuffineddaboudit.

Similarly, there's no airfield in the program that I know about without bomber hangars. And I'm pretty sure you don't want heavy bombers in this AFAWAA deal. It'd be defeating the purpose, like having heavy buffs available in the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena.

Capture is always going to be possible. It's just another thing HT ain't gonna do. (See above)

Sure, there WILL be griefers. There is now in the TFAWAA.

As for the CV set being "limited", I know I'm not the only one here that has posted that CV battles are the best action in the AH MA at present.

I'd love to see this idea given a test. It can always be tweaked.. or discarded.

Toad,

Ok .. no indestructable ack. Then each airfield and town could be bolstered with so many ack that it would be near impossible to de-ack the area before some furballers would up and kill the would-be vultchers/capturers. Ack can be made more accurate ... NO ? Does that fall into the ... "Nah gunna do it. Ain't gunna happen. studmuffineddaboudit" category too ?

I never said eliminate the bomber hangers. I don't care if they are there. Like I said in a previous post, if I were to see a bomber or a C47 up from my field, then his location and direction of flight would be broadcast so fast, that they wouldn't have a chance to make a difference. Along with that, any enemy plane that was targeting said buff/goon would get a free pass by me to kill the buff/goon.

These fields would be capturable ... just VERY difficult to capture due to the proliferation of lazer ack.

I am one of those that LOVE a good CV battle/furball ... I just wouldn't want them all the time. I would love to get up in some of the other early war planes that aren't offered off the deck of a CV.

I would be willing to see thew CV concept go to test even with the dislikes that I have pointed out above. Like I said in prior post, first step is to prove the concept ... after that comes refinements.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Drunky
I quit trying to help as of this point.

It becomes more and more clear that certain people wish nothing more than to argue between themselves as little has been written that can be discribed as suggestions.

This post has gone 5 pages and what does it show?  Very little in the way of suggestions but many miles of quoting each other and refuting the other's perspective.  If would seem that some people prefer to verbally joust more than they prefer to fly.

If you wish to implode upon your avarices, then be my guest.  I wash my hands of you all at this point.

I haven't been in the MA for sometime and I am reminded of the reasons every time I read many of your posts.  I will continue to reside in the CT.

I had hoped desperately that we could foster a new place that I could enjoy flying against some of the best pilots that we have in AH without distraction.  But apparently our own egos or selfish desires has reduced a grander scheme to petty bickering match in which we are all the losers.

I looked forwar to flying against Lasz in early-war planes and testing not only his skill but my own.  I had also looked forward to flying against Rude in his P51-d for the same reason.  I don't think that I would win those contest but I would have learned nonetheless.  These are just two examples.

Too bad it will never happen

Long live the dream, the dream is dead.

It seems that few read my posts and even fewer respond.  Go then, there are other worlds than this.

Whoa Drunky ... step back from the 40 dude.

Your idea does have merit ... I like it. There is no reason not to continue forward with it ... there is nothing saying that only 1 idea/concept is acceptable at this time.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by nopoop
I'm not for reinventing the wheel, fields a little closer.. the .75 number is minimum, sounds about right.

Adjustments to ease the fuel porkage issue and give it a whirl..

Poop ... with that attitude, we would still be driving on stone wheels and all have cars like Fred Flintstone.

This concept eliminates the need to muck with the current MA settings and keeping the strat guys happy with the status quo.

[Jackal1]

And when we get the arena sectioned off for early war planes and a section for late war planes and a section for GVs and a section for PT boats and a section for bombers and a section for attack mode and a section for fighter mode and a chat mode section .... can I please have just a little section to set up a curio shop to sell historical mementos from the "back in days of AH" stuff?

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
The furball arena within an arena - equally pointless, but fun for some. Why not?

OK then. So give it up already.

You're talking about something that isn't going to happen and most are talking about something for which a precedent has already been set and MIGHT happen.

Like I've said many times before, I don't care what you want to do in the game as long as I can do what I want to do somewhere in the game.

So you just strat your little heart out while I lobby for an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena that is similar to and based upon the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena, ok?

Be nice and eat yer meat.. or ya can't have any pudding!

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
I don't want it both ways. But I don't want "hardness" tinkered with purely at the behest of a mere subset of AH subscribers. The  

C'mon, don't be a hypocrite. The journey from the pure fighter ACM game that was Beta to whatever it is we have now was accomplished by subsets of AH subscribers lobbying for "tinkering" changes.

So you do want it both ways. You apparently like what it has become but now that you're satisfied, there's to be no more tinkering?

Ya know, we had a saying about guys like you in the Union.

"Up the ladder mates, I'm aboard".

You've got yours and now no ones else gets aboard, eh? You're happy, so no more tinkering.

There's been YEARS of subsets of players "tinkering". YEARS.

Once again, I thank you for bringing a smile to my day.

[Toad]

Slap, I don't think they can tweak the ack accuracy in just one area of the map. It's probably an arena wide setting. If you make lazer ack all over...... the howling will never cease. Might be able to add some, I don't know the limits there.

Heavy bombers need to be eliminated for the same reason that there's no jabo's or buffs available in the Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena. They defeat the entire purpose and so must be removed. Now.. if we could get killshooter off ......... that might be more fun than furballing even.

The CV idea would provide a quick, cheap, relatively off the shelf test of the concept. If it works, then perhaps a more detailed effort would be warranted.

If not.. I hear Medieval Total War is fun........

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Toad
Curly, CV battles seem to work out OK right now. Bout the only thing that drops the frames is the ack barrages for me.

It would be interesting if HTC prevented CVs from getting closer than 25 miles to the shoreline.

The incentive for sinking CVs would disappear (except port capture.)

curly