Author Topic: Perk the La7  (Read 12733 times)

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #75 on: June 26, 2001, 06:17:00 PM »
lol
ya but everyone else was flying the LA7..
which brings us back to the thread in question
PERK THE LA7
ITS WAAAAAAY UBER.

[ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Pongo ]

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #76 on: June 26, 2001, 06:28:00 PM »
and YOU haven't given me ONE good reason to perk the SpitIX Mandoble. All of it has been nonsense LuftWhiner drivel so far!
-SW

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2001, 06:40:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Well, Wulfe, it seems you are not available to do some TA test. No problem, I did them for you:

The test:
190A8 4x20, 190F8 2x20, 190A5 4x20, SpitIX 2x20 + 2x50.
All 75% fuel + DT.
Tests were done climbing to the test alt (no wep), droping the DT and full power and then WEP ON until 30 secs with no speed neddle movements.

5k:
190A5 -> 330 mph
190A8 -> 325 mph
190F8 -> 325 mph
SpitIX -> 320 mph

10k:
190A5 -> 305 mph
190A8 -> 305 mph
190F8 -> 302 mph
SpitIX -> 318 mph

higher that 10k = more advantage for the spit.

190A/F have a minimal edge only up to 5k (more or less). So, the conclusion is that 190A5 (the fastest at 5k) is a faster plane than SpitIX... ...LOL, better luck with next absurd assumption mate.

Hey, and, at least for me, there are more than a single plane of motion. SpitIX is faster than any 190A/F at any alt in the vertical.


Funny how you forgot to test the Dora .. since its so slow and inferior to spit, why don't you post its numbers too ?

One of those days HTC will make Spit IX LF/HL and Spit XIV. I got 100$ that we will have 90% of LW quit within a week.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2001, 06:50:00 PM »
LOL, Ski!

I'm NOT taking that bet!

There'll be crying and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Sackcloth and ashes.

"But it's JUST NOT FAIR!!!!!!"

Quickly followed by chants of "Unperked 262!  Unperked 262!  Unperked 262!  Unperked 262!"


 :)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #79 on: June 26, 2001, 07:17:00 PM »
Quote
Funny how you forgot to test the Dora .. since its so slow and inferior to spit, why don't you post its numbers too ?

Over 325 at 5k.

Here is an interesting test you can try in the safety of your own home:

Cruising at around 315 mph at 5k, dive down to the deck keeping it just under your terminal speed.  Once you get to about 70 feet level off and kick in the wep.  See what speed your plane settles on.

From my tests:

Spit IX: 328
Dora: 365

Of course, when you're on the deck, you always accelerate to the deck speed.. you never decelerate to it... right?  I mean.. its not like you engaged at alt then dove for safety.

Yeah.. lets find the right numbers to prove the point and then insist that they are the only valid ones that count!  Ignore the rest!  We are LW!  Resistance is futile!

AKDejaVu

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2001, 07:21:00 PM »
fdski...slap yourself. who are the luftwaffe you are talking about. There are maybe 1 or two players in the game left that your are talking about...
and you are whining about the Spit versions again shame on you.
Your gona have to find a new visible minority to abuse soon. Try to think of a catchy name for them...

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #81 on: June 26, 2001, 07:37:00 PM »
First, for those than cant or dont know how to read. I always said Dora is faster, and as far as I know, faster at any alt up to 25k (at least).

Second, for those than cant or dont know how to read. I did these test in response to Wulfe statement that 190A5 is a faster plane than SpitIX (yep, faster only near sea level).

Third, for those that cant understand or dont know how to understand. This is anything but an elitist post stating that 190 pilots are the best ones. When D9 was introduced, ALL 190 experts (months of 190A8/A5 usage) used it, that may explain its good scoring (only in K/D). We a rookie aproach a D9 and notices it cant turn, he comes back quickly to Spits, Nikkis or anything else.

Fourth, for those that cant understand or dont know how to understand. As I stated, Dora has an evident edge over SpitIX in survability, that is, potential K/D. BUT, K/D is only one of the factors AH uses to rank the pilots, AND NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT.

And five. AFAIK, lower ENY values put a plane closer to be perked than hi ENY values:
Spit  ENY 16
N1K2  ENY 15
190D9 ENY 18

Sincerely, I'm almost sure it is not my english ...

I'm answering with data: tests, ranks, eny values. you are using only K/D as a "valid" argument ... ... who is the biased one?

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #82 on: June 26, 2001, 07:57:00 PM »
Oooo.. don't forget the F6F-5 has an ENY of 17.  Yep.. that uberplane.

Of course, ENY has nothing to do with the fact that the spit and nik are overused.  Nah... its purely on plane capability... just like the F6F-5.

And the A5 slowed at 342 after the same dive.. with more fuel.  Still faster.  Oh.. and the A5 managed to hit 580 in the dive and kept together.  I was rather amazed at that feat... and was amazed that it didn't suffer from the same compression the Dora did at 570... that is it didn't roll at all and aileron control was responsive.

AKDejaVu

Offline rosco-

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« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2001, 10:43:00 PM »
Ill take that bet, i say sooner than a week 5 days at the most.
 

 :)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2001, 02:55:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SpitLead:
It's all been the P-51 and Spitfire that "won the air war".  If this airplane was as good in the FM in real life as it is in AH then I would think I would've heard more about it.  

At the end of the war there was a mock dogfight between 2 pilot of 2 French squadron one equiped with Spitfire (Corse or Alsace don't recall) the other using Yak (Normandie-Nielmen).
Both squad with equaly trained vet guess which plane won ?
Pilot were swapped after 1 round guess which plane won this time ?


You answered Yak ?
YEAH we have a winner   :)

 
Quote
If this airplane was as good in the FM in real life as it is in AH then I would think I would've heard more about it. Granted, it is a Russian airplane and we didn't hear a lot about it for years.
I've asked several time in the past to add the YAK-3U with VK107 as a perk if you are afraid of the La7 you will cry when it will come to AH   :D
It's unknown to lot of "westerner" but it the ULTIMATE perk dogfight plane and under 15K co-alt it would eat all ... Tempest included

subliminal message : Yak-3 in NN color in AH   :)

 

[ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: straffo ]

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2001, 03:04:00 AM »
Ok, so, the standar way to rate a plane max speed is just diving it ...

And yep, ENY should do a lot with plane overusage, cause that Ta152H has ENY 8.

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2001, 07:19:00 AM »
Ok you Spit/Dora arguing dweebs go get your OWN stinking thread!!  :p

Back to the topic at hand.

Spitlead wrote:

 
Quote
It's just a perception, I have no historical reference.

Thats the problem. Much of what your claiming about the abilities of the La7 are just your perceptions, and are not fact.

If you would go do some testing on the aircraft you would see for instance that the La7 is a very mediocre turner, with relatively poor low speed handling. Much like the Yak-9U and P-51.

 
Quote
However, if someone can bring historical data to this forum to validate the La7 FM then I will bow to that.

Well, I'm at work or I would post data to till your sick of reading it  ;) But the short of the answer is simply "Yes, the La7 could do what it does in AH". If anything, all the Soviet aircraft in AH have been produced with the worst performing flight test data available. So if anything, the La7 could potentially have been even better.

 
Quote
It's all been the P-51 and Spitfire that "won the air war". If this airplane was as good in the FM in real life as it is in AH then I would think I would've heard more about it.

Its called Propaganda and a little issue referred too as the "Cold War"  ;)

 
Quote
My biggest point is that there are few airplanes that do nearly ALL things well. Usually, an airplane has several notable advantages in its FM while having several disadvanges in others (i.e. you can't have your cake and eat it too in airplane design, there's ALWAYS a trade off in design factors).

You are correct!!  And the La7 conforms to that design theory quite well.

Advantages: Climb, Acceleration, Speed below 5k. High speed handling, and instantaneous turns.

These combine to make a very effective E fighter at the low altitudes seen in "Main Arena" combat like in AH.

Disadvantages: Very poor performance at altitude (above 10k, and its very mediocre), Average to Poor sustained turn rates, Poor low speed handling, Poor guns, Small Ammo loadout, very short range, and almost no Air to Ground attack capabiity.

 
Quote
The La7 as modeled in AH seems to be too good in speed, climb, acceleration, turning, diving etc.

Why? Take a very small, relatively light airframe and attach a huge radial engine too it. Giving you a high power to weight ratio. Simple design concept.

 
Quote
My experience in AH is that it seems to outrun anything on the deck and can just about turn with a N1K (the oft maligned uber airplane (aka UFO). To me, that just seems out of whack.

No arguements on the speed, although a Typhoon and the Dora are both very close and it all depends on initial relative energy states and altitude.

But on the turning. Again I say, prove it.  :)  To show you how confident I am, if your right, I will arrange to have your next month of Aces High paid free of charge.

Needless to say, I'm a fan of the late war Soviet Fighters. And given the type of fight they were designed for (which is quite similar to our arena combat) they are very very good.  :)

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2001, 07:45:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SpitLead:
[QB]Dowding,

I agree...and I am a La 7 fan.... I can find no data to suggest that the La7 was faster than the FW D9 (at any alt)and some data to show it was comparable (maybe marginally faster) in speed to the fastest of the Fw190 A series.

(note I discuss speed not acceleration)

We do not have a 109K in AH to compare it with.

Actually I believe the La 7 was more stable at lower speeds than presently modeled in AH. But had violent departure due to the sharpening of the lift/stall curve via its slats.

The la5FN was, it seems, only just upto the capabilities of its contempory the 109G6 but exceeded those of the 109G2.(very generalised statement)

Its a pity the perking system cannot differentiate between the 3 gun and 2 gun La7. The 3 gun is definately an end of war plane (Febraury 45 onward) it rarely carried 150 per gun (more often 130)I could rationalise perking the 3 gun on historical grounds. Re game play the La 7 is a sort of "spoiler" but it does not seem to be the plane of choice of our aces.

Tilt
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Offline lazs1

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« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2001, 08:42:00 AM »
actually... the reason that fighter planes are used more than d9's or even P51's is quite simple... While it is very easy to survive and get good K/D ratios in the D9 and P51... They are boring... All LW planes are boring.  Most people don't like to be bored.  Most people like to fly the fun planes and not the one trick ponies.

Giving six calls to planes about to be jumped by such one trick ponies is quite fun.  People who fly these planes in the arena have emotional problems.   why not just fly a bomber?
lazs

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2001, 08:57:00 AM »
Quote
actually... the reason that fighter planes are used more than d9's or even P51's is quite simple... While it is very easy to survive and get good K/D ratios in the D9 and P51... They are boring... All LW planes are boring. Most people don't like to be bored. Most people like to fly the fun planes and not the one trick ponies.

Not too far off the mark.  Except that the pony is one of the more prolific planes in the arena.  Think that has more to do with visual/nationalistic appeal than anything else.  They really are one trick ponies.

AKDejaVu