Author Topic: Perk the La7 (Read 11524 times)

Nifty · « **Reply #60 on:** June 26, 2001, 03:45:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SWulfe:
Or because you're sick of complaining about seeing so many of the same plane (read: dying to the same plane)
-SW

I said it was because it didn't have the yellow ring around the cowling!!!

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #61 on:** June 26, 2001, 03:47:00 PM »

OK SWulfe, let me look at the stats...

Top 20 fighter pilots:
1 - BigUC (SpitIX)
2 - Citabria (P38L, F6F5 and F4U1C)
3 - Feed (F4U1D)
4 - F00bar (Zeke)
5 - Rraf (F4U1D, P47D11)
6 - Fariz (Yak9U, F4U1D)
7 - Blade (Spit IX)
8 - Hanzo (Zeke)
9 - Tukiyo (N1K2)
10 - Kiyota (La7, Seafire, Yak9U)
11 - rz (F6F5, N1K2)
12 - AKNimitz (F4U1C, N1K2, P47D11)
13 - Taki (N1K2)
14 - Bane (P51D) Congrats Bane!
15 - kanamaru (F4U1C, F4U1D)
16 - Khan (SpitIX)
17 - LegacyB4 (Ki61)
18 - Asmodan (SpitV, SpitIX)
19 - Acinonyx (190A8) Congrats w!
20 - Mitsu (Ki61)

None at top 20 uses 190D9 at all, stats are on my side.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #62 on:** June 26, 2001, 03:48:00 PM »

AND I SAY IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE SICK OF DYING TO IT!!!!

-SW

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #63 on:** June 26, 2001, 03:55:00 PM »

LOL! Whatever Mandoble, now you are just using whatever stats work for you.

There's other stats posted about that point to the D9 having the best K/D of the La7/N1K2 and SpitIX..

Hmmmmm!!!
-SW

SpitLead · « **Reply #64 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:25:00 PM »

He he he, I knew this thread would stir the pot

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #65 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:28:00 PM »

LOL! Um.. mandoble.. did you really look at anything other than position?

BigUC in SpitIX: 109:79 (of 300 kills) - his presence has to be some kind of bug since he is below 1:1 k/d, below 1 k/s, and below 7% gunnery. He doesn't have an acceptionally high score.

The fact that you have to resort to the "top pilots" to prove what pane is better pretty much speaks for itself. That list really doesn't have anything to do with the pilot. Everyone could go 300:20 in a P-38.. its the plane afterall.

How about this.. when the "Top 10 list" is generated for this tour, see how the K/D from the Spitfire's best compares to the LW's best.

Dowding · « **Reply #66 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:32:00 PM »

Spitlead - I'm interested in this 'PERCEPTION' you talk about in relation to the La-7 and it's historical performance. What are your sources, for instance?

The La-5FN was as good as any of its LW contemporaries, and the same can be said of the La-7.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #67 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »

Swulfe, I'm not using whatever stats work for me, I enumerated you the factors that AH uses to reward the pilots with a good score pos. With all these factors, no one has been "rewarded" for flying 190D9. K/D is only one of these factors, and the only one where D9 can shine.

My conclusion: with the actual arena parameters and scoring system, SpitIX is a much more profitable plane than Dora.

And your argumentation is weaker and weaker every post.

AKDejaVu, I'm not proving what plane is better (IMO Dora is far better plane than SpitIX), I'm proving that SpitIX is better than D9 in the AH universe.

[ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: MANDOBLE ]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #68 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:43:00 PM »

The Spitfire Mk IX has 186 kills and has been killed 232 times against the Fw 190D-9.

What universe are you in?

AKDejaVu

SpitLead · « **Reply #69 on:** June 26, 2001, 04:58:00 PM »

Dowding,

It's just a perception, I have no historical reference. I have neither the time nor inclination to do that research. However, if someone can bring historical data to this forum to validate the La7 FM then I will bow to that. I'm an aviation buff from way back and through the years I've heard diddly about the La7. It's all been the P-51 and Spitfire that "won the air war". If this airplane was as good in the FM in real life as it is in AH then I would think I would've heard more about it. Granted, it is a Russian airplane and we didn't hear a lot about it for years. AND, I know it's not the plane but the pilot in the plane that REALLY makes the difference which probably accounts for the Luftwaffe success on the Eastern front. At any rate, there you have it. My biggest point is that there are few airplanes that do nearly ALL things well. Usually, an airplane has several notable advantages in its FM while having several disadvanges in others (i.e. you can't have your cake and eat it too in airplane design, there's ALWAYS a trade off in design factors). The La7 as modeled in AH seems to be too good in speed, climb, acceleration, turning, diving etc. Granted, I recognize there are other airplanes in AH which will outperform the La7 in one area or another. My experience in AH is that it seems to outrun anything on the deck and can just about turn with a N1K (the oft maligned uber airplane (aka UFO). To me, that just seems out of whack.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #70 on:** June 26, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »

Mandoble,

Doing virtually the same test off-line, but with the fuel use set to 0 so as to maintain constant fuel weight, the Spit9 made 340/333 (wep/no wep) at 5k and 360/355 at 10k. I haven't done any FWs yet, but results for Spit9, La7, G-10, P-51D, and N1K2 will be up soon. Granted that most planes approach their top speeds very slowly so it is possible that no observable movement took place for a 30 sec period. My top speeds were taken after 5 minutes level flight and, in the case of the P-51, a little later because it still had observable increase in speed. Exact conditions were:

Fuel as close to 25 minutes duration as possible (P-51: 50%, La-7: 100%, G-10: 100%, N1K2-J: 50%, Spit9: 75%)

Fuel Use set to 0 (well, 0.001)

Combat Trim On

Auto Level On

Speed dropped to 150 TAS then accelerated with and without WEP (I'll have accel numbers posted, too)

Max speed taken after 5 minutes. Not sure how these will look in post, but here are numbers from Excel:

   1k   5k   10k   15k   20k   25k   30k

G-10   362/331   387/356   400/375   418/383   440/406   430/415   418/403
La-7   387/369   400/381   400/400   395/395   406/406   398/398   362/362
N1K2-J   340/331   350/344   351/349   356/350   369/362   350/349   331/325
P-51D   370/351   378/374   400/394   400/399   415/402   428/425   422/412
Spit9   321/318   340/333   361/355   380/375   380/378   401/395   399/399

HaMmeR

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Well, Wulfe, it seems you are not available to do some TA test. No problem, I did them for you:

The test:
190A8 4x20, 190F8 2x20, 190A5 4x20, SpitIX 2x20 + 2x50.
All 75% fuel + DT.
Tests were done climbing to the test alt (no wep), droping the DT and full power and then WEP ON until 30 secs with no speed neddle movements.

5k:
190A5 -> 330 mph
190A8 -> 325 mph
190F8 -> 325 mph
SpitIX -> 320 mph

10k:
190A5 -> 305 mph
190A8 -> 305 mph
190F8 -> 302 mph
SpitIX -> 318 mph

higher that 10k = more advantage for the spit.

190A/F have a minimal edge only up to 5k (more or less). So, the conclusion is that 190A5 (the fastest at 5k) is a faster plane than SpitIX... ...LOL, better luck with next absurd assumption mate.

Hey, and, at least for me, there are more than a single plane of motion. SpitIX is faster than any 190A/F at any alt in the vertical.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #71 on:** June 26, 2001, 05:16:00 PM »

AKDejaVu, do you really need some explanation??? REALLY?????
SpitIX is masively used, mostly by green pilots that dead over'n over (same with n1k2). D9 is not a so friendly plane, due this fact it is mainly used by pilots with some experience, harder to kill than most of spit rookies.

But there is an obvious thing, there are SpitIX real aces and 190D9 real aces with no doubt and with similar skill levels. Curiously, this arena and scoring system (OUR UNIVERSE) do not put a single 190D9 ace into the top 20 fighter pilots, perhaps even into the top 40. If you want to create a paralell universe where K/D is the only factor to rate a pilot, ok.

It seems that wulfe and you have the same problem understanding that K/D is only ONE of the factors, and not the most important.

Toad · « **Reply #72 on:** June 26, 2001, 05:24:00 PM »

Gee, I can remember old threads where high K/D was trotted out as the main reason to perk the you-know-what.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #73 on:** June 26, 2001, 06:06:00 PM »

Quote

AKDejaVu, do you really need some explanation??? REALLY?????
SpitIX is masively used, mostly by green pilots that dead over'n over (same with n1k2). D9 is not a so friendly plane, due this fact it is mainly used by pilots with some experience, harder to kill than most of spit rookies.

I understand entirely Mandoble. When it comes to the Spitfire, its the plane that's uber.. with the dora its the pilot. Spitfires chase doras down all the time.. if it weren't for the outstanding abilities of Dora pilots, they'd have a K/D of less than one against the spitfires.

Of course, the fact that you fly LW iron in no way implies bias.

AKDejaVu

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #74 on:** June 26, 2001, 06:12:00 PM »

BTW.. here's a little stat from tour 14 when the dora was introduced. That's when everyone and their mother were giving it a try:

The Fw 190D-9 has 641 kills and has been killed 464 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.

Kinda blows that "LW Experten" theory out of the water. Fricking egomaniacs.

BTW.. it had a K/D of 1.32 that first tour.. even with all those LW wannabes flying it.

AKDejaVu