30 on 5 -The Horde Mentality

[Virage]

For those who missed the point:

Base distance has no bearing on Gangbanging.  

As the screenshot of FestersFurball clearly shows.  (Thnx to MiniD)


It is the sheep mentality.  Follow Green Bar... Follow Green Bar.

Not many players... including the majority of players that think they are aces.. will not up to defend a base
(S! to those few players with balls that do)

It is as simple as that.

[lazs2]

I see a lot more options on even dejas screenshot than i do 95% of the time on infinity or pizza....

with close bases you don't have to fight your way home or be gangbanged when you finally get close to the "action" after a two sector flight only to find out that the "action" is ten guys at 15k circling their base waiting for anyone to come all the way over to them or.... a smoking fuelless base with nothing but a dozen osties.

close bases promote action... far bases promote gang banging and timidity.... it is as simple as that.

lazs

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Oldman731
You were Cilk?

Now I find out.

After all these years.

LOL Sorry, I thought it was common knowledge among people I flew with way back when.  Though I bet things make a lot more sense now when you think about them.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[slimm50]

You guys better hope HTC doesn't raise the price very much, or one of your easier kills (me) is outta here. Couple my ISP monthly fee with the monthly dues for this game, and it's not such a cheap game anymore.

Slim(target sleeve)03

[beet1e]

Lazs!

Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... the reason you never understood it then or now is because you don't do it.  

 I've been trying to tell YOU that for a couple of years now!

The reason you don't understand the strat game is because you don't do it. The reason you don't understand buffs is because you don't fly them. The reason you don't see the need for GVs, PT boats, field guns, jabo bombing, goon/M3 runs to resupply or drop troops, Shore Battery gun to destroy the CV... is because you're not interested. Your not interested in 60% of the maps either. You whine like hell about Pizza, Big Isles and Trinity. Face it: You're simply playing one small part of a subset of the game. No wonder you are bored with it. I on the other hand have done sorties in all the above mentioned vehicles and guns. Geez, it's like trying to introduce someone to a new type of food - "I've never tried it because I don't like it!"

far bases just make everyone shiver under their bunks when not organizing huge 'missuns' to take undefended bases.

That part is BS - no further comment required.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Depends upon who is looking at the map ...

I see alot of different types of "action" going on ... not just gangbangs and that is what this map is all about ... constant action. This picture is also a reflection of what we see on every map ... not exclusive only to FesterMA.

I never said it wasn't representative of all maps.  Someone else was commenting that this didn't happen on fester's map.  It does.

I believe that it was Fester intention to allow the "gangs" to come in, and resistance can launch from a closer field near the "gang" to try a ward them off.

Oh... we can guess intentions all we want.  They are irrelevant.  What you end up with is what matters.  The map has so many "furballs" occuring over fields that it isn't even funny.  What's even less funny is the same guys refer to those "furballs" as "gang-bangs" on any other map.  When "closer fights" ends up being synonymous with "fights at the base" the real point is being missed.  You end up having to fly farther to get to the fight anyways.   Once again, moving the fights away from the bases is the solution... making the bases the objective should not be.  Fester's map highlights that people really want to just be in a position where easy kills are widely available... all else be damned.

If the base is captured, they had better defend it because a counter-attack from a nearby base could take it back just as quickly. Not quite as possible on any other map. With this, the rolling "gang" is not so effective.

BS... nobody cares about losing bases on this map or any other.  the "rolling base" gang is just as active... it's just more of a hamster wheel.  As a result... any type of map movement is virtually impossible on fester's map unless there's one hell of a numbers advantage or 2 courntries are primarily crushing the 3rd.

Fester's map has not solved any of the problems in game play no matter how much those who insisted it would now insist it does.  It's even added a few more.  It's quite simply the fact that the real game play problems are not map related as much as people insist they are.  The real problem is that a ton of new people have hopped into the game and instead of learning pilot skills, they prefer to hide in mobs learning nothing.  I've never seen so many shoot for so long and not hit anything.  I've never seen so many chase one con in my life (15 after 1 the other day).  I've never seen 50 friendlies all huddled around one base across the whole front before.

Oh well... the game doesn't grow without an influx of newbies.  It's just sad that there's one hell of a growing pain going on right now.

MiniD

[Reschke]

I don't like the horde mentality one bit but I don't think that "raising the price" will effect it at all.

I was here in the late beta and then in the opening $30 a month days of HTC but I was not here every month and was absent from it for a good long stretch because $30 a month adds up to a good chunk of dollars in a year. But quite honestly there is a huge difference in $360 a year versus $180 a year. For me if the price goes up then I will most likely make my way to another game somewhere. There are a couple of choices at the moment but none that I really like playing like this game. While I can afford a price increase; I would be taking away from one area to support another. In my case the money I have saved from not playing under Warbirds pricing has gone a long way toward my first son's college fund. Call me cheap or whatever just quit *****ing and do something constructive about the problem.

Here is some news for you price raising guys. Fighter Ace 3.x just raised their price from $9.95 to $14.95 a month "to match the industry standard". The last time I checked that game out there were about as many people playing in the "Intermediate" and "Advanced" areas as there were on Warbirds. While quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality it does have a quality all its own. What the quote from Jaleco means is that they are chasing the standard that was set by HTC and followed by CRS and others in recent years. It also shows that they are upgrading their servers and such in hopes that they can bring in new customers and have a larger customer base in all their arenas.

[Toad]

For me it's about engagements.

Fester's map is more engagements in far less time than BI or AKD and even the improved Trinity. YMMV.

The climbing/driving around on autopilot part holds no interest for me. Just a personal fault, I guess.

Bottom line is ALL the gameplay is still allowed on Fester's map. You can still do any/all the things you want/wish to do on it.

However, the other big maps, no matter how you slice it, offer less engagement opportunity due to distance between fields. This is even more of a problem if one wishes to fly the earlier/slower/shorter-ranged part of the plane set (a personal choice, of course).

So once again it comes down to that. Fester offers the same opportunities as the other big maps PLUS it is much more friendly to early/mid war type aircraft looking for engagements PLUS the shorter distances allow for more engagements for the engagment-centric (me ).

Seems to me that's good for all concerned. As opposed to BI, AKD and ITrin which are good for some but definitely not for others.

Dear Cod, please hurry HTC up with TOD. It's got to help one side or the other. I hope.

[lazs2]

and that is all it boils down too.... close fields allow all types of gameplay while far fields restrict choice and gameplay.

close fields benifiet all while far fields are only usefull to the enemies of fun.
lazs

[Reschke]

One more thing that I haven't cared for in AH ever...is the blasted three sided chess piece crap.


Get rid of the frigging chess piece war and make it a two sided affair or split the whole damn thing along country lines and introduce planes to fill out the planeset for each country.

[Rude]

Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs!  I've been trying to tell YOU that for a couple of years now!

The reason you don't understand the strat game is because you don't do it. The reason you don't understand buffs is because you don't fly them. The reason you don't see the need for GVs, PT boats, field guns, jabo bombing, goon/M3 runs to resupply or drop troops, Shore Battery gun to destroy the CV... is because you're not interested. Your not interested in 60% of the maps either. You whine like hell about Pizza, Big Isles and Trinity. Face it: You're simply playing one small part of a subset of the game. No wonder you are bored with it. I on the other hand have done sorties in all the above mentioned vehicles and guns. Geez, it's like trying to introduce someone to a new type of food - "I've never tried it because I don't like it!"  That part is BS - no further comment required.

Well....you admit you have not done the furballing, yet you seem to tell us all about how it is silly and the incorrect way to play....I have done your style of play for years and furballing, yet you seem to think you have a more balanced dictate for gameplay.

Bottomline, neither way is incorrect...both camps should play maps which allow both styles of gameplay so that everyone can have fun...not just you and your's Beet....kinda selfish of you if you disagree, don't you think?

[SlapShot]

I never said it wasn't representative of all maps.  Someone else was commenting that this didn't happen on fester's map.  It does.

Agree ... no map can prevent this occurence.

Oh... we can guess intentions all we want.  They are irrelevant.  What you end up with is what matters.  The map has so many "furballs" occuring over fields that it isn't even funny.  What's even less funny is the same guys refer to those "furballs" as "gang-bangs" on any other map.  When "closer fights" ends up being synonymous with "fights at the base" the real point is being missed.  You end up having to fly farther to get to the fight anyways.   Once again, moving the fights away from the bases is the solution... making the bases the objective should not be.  Fester's map highlights that people really want to just be in a position where easy kills are widely available... all else be damned.

[/B]

Agree .. except that I don't end up flying farther (in most cases) to get back into the fight ... remember fields are close together so I am not flying 1 1/2 to 2 sectors to get back.

BS... nobody cares about losing bases on this map or any other.  the "rolling base" gang is just as active... it's just more of a hamster wheel.  As a result... any type of map movement is virtually impossible on fester's map unless there's one hell of a numbers advantage or 2 courntries are primarily crushing the 3rd.

[/B]

I am surprised Mini ... you usually dont paint with such a wide brush. "Nobody" cares ... If nobody cared then how do these maps get reset or better yet .. not get reset. Just this past weekend, the nits were in the hole big time and somehow managed to dig themselves out of the hole. If "nobody" cared, then Trinity would have been reset very quicky. All countries have their "Generals" barking out on country channel when fields are lost.

Fester's map has not solved any of the problems in game play no matter how much those who insisted it would now insist it does.  It's even added a few more.  It's quite simply the fact that the real game play problems are not map related as much as people insist they are.  The real problem is that a ton of new people have hopped into the game and instead of learning pilot skills, they prefer to hide in mobs learning nothing.  I've never seen so many shoot for so long and not hit anything.  I've never seen so many chase one con in my life (15 after 1 the other day).  I've never seen 50 friendlies all huddled around one base across the whole front before.

Oh well... the game doesn't grow without an influx of newbies.  It's just sad that there's one hell of a growing pain going on right now.

No FesterMA has not solved the game play problem. At least it was an attempt and the newly perceived problems I think have provided a different taste of gameplay, which in itself has been a refreshing change from the constant that we have been use to. Again, its not the "do-all and end-all" ... its just new.

It's quite simply the fact that the real game play problems are not map related as much as people insist they are.  The real problem is that a ton of new people have hopped into the game and instead of learning pilot skills, they prefer to hide in mobs learning nothing.  I've never seen so many shoot for so long and not hit anything.  I've never seen so many chase one con in my life (15 after 1 the other day).  I've never seen 50 friendlies all huddled around one base across the whole front before.

Oh well... the game doesn't grow without an influx of newbies.  It's just sad that there's one hell of a growing pain going on right now.[/B]

You are ABSOLUTLY right.

[Mini D]

You don't have to fly 1 1/2 sectors to GET TO A BASE.  But you still have to fly 3/4 of a sector to get to a fight AT A BASE.  The fights are not closer... the bases are.

I am surprised Mini ... you usually dont paint with such a wide brush. "Nobody" cares ... If nobody cared then how do these maps get reset or better yet .. not get reset. Just this past weekend, the nits were in the hole big time and somehow managed to dig themselves out of the hole. If "nobody" cared, then Trinity would have been reset very quicky. All countries have their "Generals" barking out on country channel when fields are lost.

Virtually every "recovery" is a direct result of a country chosing to organize offense, not defense.  There is no point in defending bases.  That is my generalization.  I've always said it and will continue to say it.  The country that loses is the one that's being overwhelmed or stops trying to take bases.  Defense in AH is futile at best.  Gameplay reflects that to the nth degree.

MiniD

[SlapShot]

You don't have to fly 1 1/2 sectors to GET TO A BASE.  But you still have to fly 3/4 of a sector to get to a fight AT A BASE.  The fights are not closer... the bases are.

I'll chalk this up to semantics.

Virtually every "recovery" is a direct result of a country chosing to organize offense, not defense.  There is no point in defending bases.  That is my generalization.  I've always said it and will continue to say it.  The country that loses is the one that's being overwhelmed or stops trying to take bases.  Defense in AH is futile at best.  Gameplay reflects that to the nth degree.

Your right and your wrong from my standpoint.

Every "recovery" is a result of offense, but only after a successful defense has been executed. Again, this past weekend, the nits put up a hell of a defense in the west to stem the flow and at some point, when the horde got discouraged cause they weren't steamrolling anymore, small pockets of nits went on the offense and started taking back some of the homeland rear bases. This offense, with a stauch defense, is what saved the nits from the reset.

Once the steamroller starts moving, nothing but a dogged defense will stem the flow until an opposing offense can be established.

I myself prefer base defense because, in my experience, there will always be at least one or two (maybe more) that feel the need to eliminate my presence because the "goon" is on the way, and the fight(s) ensue.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by Dobe

Raising the price is a great idea.Get rid of the unskilled lemmings

Dobe

Yes... Thats the Solution..  

Afterall,  everyone knows only RICH people are good players.  

OK, maybe thats a bit of sarcasm,  But I truely see no corilation between anual income/disposable income and the level of skill, or the quality of player one is.  

Ill be there are plenty of good players than dont make much over a living wage.  

Do you think if the Price was raised to $75 a month that only good players would remain, and if you went to $150 even better people would play?

Sorry,  Price isnt the problem