Author Topic: Flight Model  (Read 3401 times)

Offline -duma-

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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2000, 06:32:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
And now yes, I'm out of this thread (sorry, had to answer him)
B]

Story of yer life eh RAM?  


Offline hazed-

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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2000, 06:39:00 PM »
Ram you are kinda strange  
HT never mind mate..<swish> right over their heads  
what a strange thread this was

hazed

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2000, 06:59:00 PM »
Hmmmm... is it my understanding Toad and RAM don't get along?

You'd think they'd get along like a house on fire! What with Toad being an opinionated real-life ex-combat pilot, and RAM just being opinionated, you'd think they'd be best buds.

 
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2000, 07:08:00 PM »
Doowding,

I have nothing against Ram personally, actually.

I do have a general dislike for the critics in the "cheap seats".

 "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT

HT and all of HTC is "in the arena". The impatient critics aren't.

...and lets get the record straight. I was never in combat. I've spent over 2 years of my life in heavier than air machines that weren't resting on the ground. Lord knows how many hours in six-axis motion flight simulators.

I think HTC does a pretty amazing job.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Gadfly

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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2000, 07:37:00 PM »
I got your back Toad.

HT, how come you refused to answer my perfectly valid question last night online:

If I fart, does it stink?

Made at least as much sense as 7/8 of what the huddled mass were asking of you.


Offline Dowding

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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2000, 07:38:00 PM »
No offence Toad, I wasn't trying to start a fight or anything. Just commenting that since you've done a lot of flying in the military (relative to most players), the fact that you're satisfied with the game speaks volumes.

Like yourself, I don't think people should criticise the FM's without having the flight time in the aircraft concerned or the aeronautical engineering data to back up their claims.

Physics is a lot more than a bunch of qualitative statements like 'it feels wrong'.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-28-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Jekyll

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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2000, 08:09:00 PM »
 
Quote
We do not change performance numbers just for play reasons. We do NOT simply dumb down planes. We do our very best, with ALL the tools we have available to make every aspect of the models come as close to the real thing as we can.

Nice to know, and certainly good enough for me to keep my big trap shut from now on.  

Well ..............


Offline CRASH

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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2000, 09:08:00 PM »
HT, Please don't splode.  My bad....I was indeed confusing torque/p-factor with slipstream.  I was reading some of the other posts and from some of my own strictly antectodal experience I thought that things may have been dialed back a notch. The post, poorly worded as it was, was mearly a question, not an accusation.  The difference between slipstream and torque had actually occurred to me, but having never flown an f4, I wouldn't know.  My apologies.  BTW, the departure from controlled flight characteristics of the f6 are really impressive.  I dont know how accurate they are, but they are definately smooth and exceptionally life like in my estimation...for what it's worth.
     I'm a bit concerned about the "what YOU wanted" statement.  Did you make changes to the AH flight model based solely on something that I posted?  Please don't do that.  If I make a suggestion that you think helps you then I'm happy for having helped you make this a more successfull game, but I don't do this for a living so please don't give my suggestions any more weight than anyone elses. I don't post references to aircraft specs and various other documented flight data in my posts specifically because I dont study this stuff like some do and the last thing I'm trying to do is pass myself off as an expert in anything related to flight sims. (You wanna talk stock market, then I'm there  )
     I, like everyone else of course, certainly notices when changes are made that coincide with things that we've suggested and your willingness to accept suggestions from the community by all accounts is greatly apreciated.    
     Liars?  About flight model? Was there a post somewhere that I've missed here?  My post was definately not a backhanded way of calling you a liar.  A poorly worded request for more info, definately.  I expected a response, (if any), to be more along the lines of "well, we needed to turn it down some for awhile to give people time to catch up" or "what?, are you nutts, that's less slipstream effect you idiot, and it's as whoopee accurate as we can make it".
     Please don't think for one minute that I dont think this to be an extraodinary piece of work.  I didn't mean to suggest that you go back to 1.03, clearly the current edition is the more accurate, slipstream effect or not.  
     I threw the post together at work, while doing 2 other things at the same time and I agree that in retrospect it set the wrong tone. The term "dumbed down" sounds a bit inflamatory, and upon closer review is probably what primarily set you off?  Bad choice of words, ..I apologize.  But Liar?  I've been in the military, either part time or full time for goin' on 18 years now and I take honor seriously...very seriously.  If I'd have meant to call you a liar I would have been very direct and forthright about it.  There would have been no doubt about what I was saying.  I wasn't.  
     The next time I consider posting something that you may have serious disagreement with I will insure that it's worded in a less inflamatory manner.
     

CRASH.....OUT

Offline Voss

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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2000, 09:25:00 PM »
And yet, NO ONE was inspired by anything in my post. (sigh)

Voss 13th T.A.S.

Offline CRASH

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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2000, 09:32:00 PM »
Thanx Voss, but if I wanted to do that I wouldn't be flyin my 'puter...for now anyway  

RedBrn, I know it's a game, thank you very much and I would very much like to see it be successfull and remain that way.  

54ed...I can both describe/define the effects and counter them in flight/taxi.  Someday I'll finish getting my liscence  

Skurj...the fm here is the best I've ever seen, though I dont play boxed versions of flight simms...it's the mm thing that I really like.

CRASH

Offline hitech

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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2000, 10:06:00 PM »
Apologie accepted crash, Any way the liar comment commes from your more accurate flight model of 1.03 statement, and the dumb down comment. Basicly I read it as you saw us as saying "we wish a more accurate flight model" but accuse us of dumbing it down, hence the liar comment.

The YOU wanted referes to your (and mine btw) desire for more accurate flight models not any 1 paticlure thing you said in the past.

No broblems mate. All is well in mudsvile.

The response to your post wasn't just aimed at you.

HiTech

Offline Cobra

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« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2000, 11:23:00 PM »

I can say that your fart does stink Lizking, and further more can be and is more potent after chili.  The kind that was in short supply to the Waffles late in the war.

I can also say that the dispersion model of the vapors is drastically affected by the following (this I quote directly from Kurt Tanks design specs, thought to be lost and only a myth, until recently unearthed at the renovations of the Tank Cabbage and Snetzel Works, where he did some of his most pioneering work):

Force of movement of gas cloud from said fart

The speed of movement of your body away from the offending odor

The prevailing wind patterns that are present in release of the same offending cloud

Ambient air temperature and relative humidity which drastically alters not only the intensity of the odor, but the ability of the cloud to hold together and not dissipate.

Field elevation....at higher elevations and on hotter days, the lift efficiency will be drastically reduced.

As an historical side note, it was from this very research that Kurt Tank got his inspiration for the Dora, which as we all know is the direct forebearer of the Starship Enterprise......Live Long and Prosper..Nanu, Nanu.


Thank You and Goodnight
Cobra

Offline Toad

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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2000, 10:27:00 AM »
Dowding,

Absolutely no offence taken. I feel I know you better than that, you pudding-headed commie-pinko socialist dweeb!   (At least you know how to debate. Sort of.   )

As I said, I didn't fly fighters and I didn't fly any combat. I DO have a lot of time in planes ranging from the Piper Cub to the B-747, including some WW2 stuff.

That doesn't really make me qualified to comment on the accuracy of AH. The programmers know far more about that than I would.

My point is this:

This is simply an AMAZING program considering what they are trying to model, the reliable information available and the fact that it runs on what is basically a cheap desktop computer.

I believe if you ask the RL pilots flying this and who have experience in high dollar simulators and actual aircraft you'll find that most are quite impressed with what has been accomplished so fast, so well and so relatively cheaply by HTC.

Perfect? No. What is?

Amazingly good? Absolutely. Comes complete with dedicated team trying to improve it everyday.

What more can we ask for? Why are we so ungrateful? Why do we fail to show HT and the rest the respect they are cleary owed?

I wish I could convey that idea to the unhappy ones. Apparently, I fail to do that.

Anyway, Cheers!

I'm enjoying the heck out of this latest improvement and look forward to seeing you in the MA.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 12-29-2000).]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Tac

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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2000, 10:35:00 AM »
I still say my X-Wing has too much drag dammit! *g*

Offline CRASH

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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2000, 10:40:00 AM »
Okie Dokie smokie.

CRASH