rook gameplay ruining beta fun..

[Shuckins]

I don't really think anyone is complaining about being outnumbered.  Two or three to one is going to happen...to everyone...when you're tooling around looking for a dogfight.  If you engage an enemy pilot another nimrod is oftentimes going to show up...that's the nature of the game.

I think the main complaint here is about the situation in which one country is outnumbered by another to the tune of three to one...and massive missions of thirty aircraft form a conga line to pound the few remaining bases.  These are the situations where people logging on to the side which already has overwhelming numbers refuse to switch to even things up.  Plenty of these pilots are unaffiliated with any squad and could make the change, but will not.  It's easier and easier to pad your scores under these circumstances.

Admittedly, I've been guilty of it too.  But I can't say I've been logged on at any time when the knights enjoyed overwhelming numbers.

Doesn't do any good to complain about it constantly because I don't think there are any changes to the game that would make a great deal of difference.  I'm learning to quit carping and start looking for less crowded skies if they are available.

[detch01]

Switched to bishop from rooks the other night to help the numbers problem, what did I find? 2/3 the bishops in the south were in the tower whining about how "bad" the hording was. Found a good fight in the north, switched to knights and had a blast til I had to leave.  Hording ain't the real problem, the real problem is the way some supposedly senior people in the game are handling it. To paraphrase:
"Waaaah! I want my furball and I want it my way and I want it now! And unless your skills are up to mine don't bother 'cause I'll just club you like a baby seal and insult you for an hour afterward. And if I don't get what I want when I want it I'm gonna sit in the tower and pout and tell all you lamers just how lame you really are."

[mars01]

As was said before, and you still don't get Beet, is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.  

When you can hit the hordes from multiple fields it breaks them up and splinters the group.  

Yes the object of the horde the one base gets pummeled, but with closer bases I can up and get to the horde before they have any chance to totally over take the base.

In your loved maps where the bases are a sector or more apart the horde has free rein to overtake base after base after base because you can not up a plane from another field in a timely manor to do defend.

BTW - what was you point with

And Mars01 enthused thus: "The important thing to remember is the MA will get a new FM engine and much better graphics. Whoooo hooooo!!!!"

This is the important thing to remember.  The FM is much better and the graphics increase the immersion factor.  Bottom line.  If you think that doesn't matter than why would anyone move from the old wire frame crap that we had in Jet, the first MSFS or AOP?  

The radish mentality is a result of the community and persons skill level and will to survive.  When people don't have a lot of skill they will flock to the hordes and run from fights and always need to fly with an advantage.  You can understand that last part.

The strat plays a part in it because if all people had to do was fight that’s all they would do and some would get better.  But with the strat all they have to do is bomb tool sheds and take bases.  Fighting is an after thought.

The AHII beta started with people that just wanted to fight, now the tool shed heroes have invaded and instead of fights we have chases.  Last night the rooks had some well positioned carriers for some good furballs and the knights killed the carriers.  Then took a port that had no defense and no airfields close enough to make the flight worth while.  Wake me when its over please!!!!  If the bases were closer we would have better fights.  Fester has made this message clear.  Unfortunately it has fallen on def ears and is ignored by the blind.

[kj714]

Originally posted by mars01
As was said before and you still don't get Beet is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.  

When you can hit the hordes from multiple fields it breaks them up and splinters the group.  

 

Yup, the scatter effect. The horde will also probably diffuse itself with more available targets within a certain area.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs,

You act like you're surprised. Nearly a year ago, I posted a thread in which I expressed grave doubts about AH2-TOD. The suicide smashdown/steamroller/horde culture was already firmly established by then. I had no need to comment on AH2 Classic because I knew it would be exactly the same as AH1. Why shouldn't it be? How would new graphics and a new flight model change that? Am I the only one who realises that pretty graphics is a great concept, but WON'T improve gameplay? You need look no further than WB3 to see how that ended up. But your considered response to my concerns in that thread was "I don't see what any of this has to do with AH2 tho except that AH2 should make things better.... those who like strat (milkruns and suicide attention grabbing) will go to TOD. There will be room to make the MA more fight friendly and, as mars points out, we will be getting some graphics and FM changes."

And Rude added "Premature postulation.....all will be good."

And Mars01 enthused thus: "The important thing to remember is the MA will get a new FM engine and much better graphics. Whoooo hooooo!!!!"

Lazs, I disagree with what you said back then about milkrunners and suiciders gravitating towards TOD. They won't. TOD will be a much more controlled environment, where uppage is going to be mission dependent. You won't just be able to mouseclick your way into a formation of suicide LANCs, or a P51 pork-n-auger horde. That's what the steamroller missun doodz want to be able to do and that's why they'll go to AH2 Classic, which is currently the beta version and the subject of your post.

And that's why the AH2 beta gameplay has been carried over from AH1.

More than two years ago, I saw the direction in which this mess was headed, and made two suggestions in this thread. But as I predicted at the time, nothing was changed. Some even laughed at my suggestions and, more particularly, the reasons for making them. They're not laughing now.

The mess we have now is why I'm holding out for TOD. Without that, AH2 gameplay is going to be exactly as it was in AH1, with a slightly different set of gamey tricks.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

You will now be considered the sage of Aces High ... you must now change your handle to ... Nostradamus ... or maybe Miss Cleo.

Yeah ... MsCleo ... I like it !!!

[lazs2]

I don't really care about TOD except that it will be a place for those with a high boredom tyhreshold and walter mitty personalities to congregate and fly "realisticly"

That will be good if it means they don't use the MA and.......

And that the MA gets away from score and  capture as it's reason for being... The reason the MA needs to exist is for fighting... the strat should be only to facilitate the fighting... Anything else should be covered by the CT or TOD but...

As we have seen... often, the CT with it's low numbers becomes a really good furball between two close bases (or CV/CV's) and the strat potatos and sky accountants are ridiculed.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by mars01
As was said before, and you still don't get Beet, is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.  

It's not that I don't "get it". I simply don't agree with you. The very first time Fester's first map was deployed, it was Vulchville.

This is the important thing to remember. The FM is much better and the graphics increase the immersion factor. Bottom line. If you think that doesn't matter than why would anyone move from the old wire frame crap that we had in Jet, the first MSFS or AOP?

I didn't say that updated graphics was not significant. But it is like a different dressing on the same old boring salad. In my view, deployment of TOD is much more significant than new graphics/flight models. Face it - right now in the MA, the gameplay sucks - for all the reasons being discussed in this thread. Eye candy is not going to fix that, so AH2 gameplay is going to suck just as much as the AH1 gameplay sucks - as some of you are just now beginning to realise. Looking for immersion? Me too. And in real WW2, folks flew what they were told to fly and did not whine. TOD will mirror that to some degree. Actual missions with actual goals. MiniD said it best.  And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the gameplay in progress resembles Quake with wings?

because you can not up a plane from another field in a timely manor to do defend.

That style of defence has always made me cringe. Why not up from the base being attacked? If it's immersion you want, well that's what they had to do in WW2.  There are plenty of warnings about an impending attack. You could try heeding those warnings. But no. Much easier to up an LA7 from next door. Immersion you say? LOL

Lazs said

I don't really care about TOD except that it will be a place for those with a high boredom tyhreshold and walter mitty personalities to congregate and fly "realisticly"

That will be good if it means they don't use the MA and.......

I don't think you mean that. The people of whom you speak so disdainfully in that first para are not the ones spoiling your fun in the AH1 MA or the AH2 beta. The people who go to TOD will be looking for a WW2 simulation driven by a purpose. It's the missun doodz and steamrollerz that are spoiling your fun, and I guarantee that they will head straight for AH2 Classic. Which is where you will be. I think you deserve each other.

Slapshot! Who was MsCleo?! I like it. I'll get on to Skuzzy to have my ID changed.

[SLO]

Originally posted by lazs2

The reason the MA needs to exist is for fighting...
lazs

thats your vision of what the MA should be....

mindless furballs all day long.....there's a DA for that.....and a CT

[SlapShot]

Slapshot! Who was MsCleo?! I like it. I'll get on to Skuzzy to have my ID changed.

She was a sweet-heart with her fake Jamaican accent.

"A sassy self-proclaimed psychic, Miss Cleo was the star of late-night TV infomercials in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Claiming to be a mystical shaman from Jamaica, Miss Cleo urged viewers to phone a "900" telephone number where they would pay by the minute to have their fortunes read. Miss Cleo became a jokey pop culture icon much like an earlier psychic promoter, Dionne Warwick. In 2002 the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported that Florida officials had uncovered a birth certificate showing that Miss Cleo was in reality Youree Dell Harris, an American born in Los Angeles in 1962."

The people who go to TOD will be looking for a WW2 simulation driven by a purpose. It's the missun doodz and steamrollerz that are spoiling your fun, and I guarantee that they will head straight for AH2 Classic.

TOD will be nothing BUT missions, so it would be safe to say that the missun doodz will gravitate to TOD. It's the mission doodz that create the horde/steamroller, so again, chances are, they will be in TOD also.

Fingers crossed !!!

[beet1e]

Originally posted by SlapShot
TOD will be nothing BUT missions, so it would be safe to say that the missun doodz will gravitate to TOD. It's the mission doodz that create the horde/steamroller, so again, chances are, they will be in TOD also.

I don't agree, but time will tell. Don't be surprised  to see me hot linking to this thread in 2006/2007. I believe that the Missun Doodz are only missun doodz because they can fly what they want, when they want, attack en masse and see lots of stuff go BOOM. The Missun Editor merely facilitates their purpose of going mobhanded on a lemming raid. What they actually do is hardly what I'd call well thought out - just up, fly dive, release bombs and auger, rinse, repeat... That's the difference between missions and missuns. TOD will be all missions. Classic will be missuns, and maybe the odd furball here and there flown by crusty old farts like us, harking back to the good old days of being able to keep a Spit V in a 6G turn and being able to do it while the pilot is blacked out.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by beet1e
I don't agree, but time will tell. Don't be surprised  to see me hot linking to this thread in 2006/2007. I believe that the Missun Doodz are only missun doodz because they can fly what they want, when they want, attack en masse and see lots of stuff go BOOM. The Missun Editor merely facilitates their purpose of going mobhanded on a lemming raid. What they actually do is hardly what I'd call well thought out - just up, fly dive, release bombs and auger, rinse, repeat... That's the difference between missions and missuns. TOD will be all missions. Classic will be missuns, and maybe the odd furball here and there flown by crusty old farts like us, harking back to the good old days of being able to keep a Spit V in a 6G turn and being able to do it while the pilot is blacked out.

Is this another prediction Miss Cleo ? ...

[beet1e]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Is this another prediction Miss Cleo ? ...

Yes, and so far, my crystal ball has served me well! OK, the last part was tongue in cheek.

[mars01]

Eye candy is not going to fix that, so AH2 game play is going to suck just as much as the AH1 game play sucks - as some of you are just now beginning to realize. Looking for immersion? Me too. And in real WW2, folks flew what they were told to fly and did not whine. TOD will mirror that to some degree. Actual missions with actual goals. MiniD said it best. And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the game play in progress resembles Quake with wings?

Never Said Eye Candy was going to fix the game play.  I simply stated that the new FM and graphics engine were the key concepts to AHII until TOD.

It's not that I don't "get it". I simply don't agree with you. The very first time Fester's first map was deployed, it was Vulchville.

What is vulchville.  And no you don't get it.  Your game play style in not furballing so how could you get it?

MiniD said it best. And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the game play in progress resembles Quake with wings?

The whole quake with wings analogy is weak at best.  Please describe what you would accept as the perfect MA game play.

That style of defense has always made me cringe. Why not up from the base being attacked? If it's immersion you want, well that's what they had to do in WW2. There are plenty of warnings about an impending attack. You could try heeding those warnings. But no. Much easier to up an LA7 from next door. Immersion you say? LOL

You have no idea Beet.  Ok so you cry about the hordes.  So if a horde has made it to the base how are you supposed to up and defend it?

Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer?  

I am not trying to play like they fought in WWII.  I want to fight in the planes of WWII.  That is the immersion factor I am looking for.  The WWII style of fighting is probably what you would like the most.  Up a plane maybe find the enemy maybe not, maybe get into a fight maybe not.  Boring !!!!!!  

You have no life so you could spend all your time barely fighting, I have few precious hours to play so I would like to be fighting most of the time.

[beet1e]

Mars01!  How nice to see you.  It's been a while...

You have no idea Beet. Ok so you cry about the hordes. So if a horde has made it to the base how are you supposed to up and defend it?

Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer?

Well, you could try paying attention to the numerous warnings - flashing map, radar, bardar etc., and take action BEFORE the horde arrives instead of waiting until AFTER they are already there to get off your butts.

On Wednesday, there was a CV attacking our shoreline. I upped a 109F4 and fought a few off. We did well, and were able to repulse the attack. But you know me. I don't like the "grab-the-best-plane-for-the-job" approach, though admittedly I fly CHogs off the CV if I know that ju88/LANC formations are expected. But even a 1D can kill an entire formation quite easily. But the "grab-an-LA7" panacea of all woes is pitiful.

You have no life so you could spend all your time barely fighting, I have few precious hours to play so I would like to be fighting most of the time.

Bollocks.  I just checked the score pages, and you spend far, far more online time in AH than I do. I went back 12 months, and the only tour in which I was online more than you was T49 - and only 2 hours more. You were online 137 hours in T45 against my 26, and 143 hours in T41 against my 50. 143 hours is almost SIX DAYS, or 20% of the entire month!! So don't give me that "I'm so-short-of-time-that-I-need-the-bases-closer-together" crap. In many a tour, your online time exceeds 100 hours. You're a 3-4 hours a day man. "Few precious hours" my arse.

There now follows an 8-hour period of toodle-pippage.

[mars01]

You too.

Well, you could try paying attention to the numerous warnings - flashing map, radar, bardar etc., and take action BEFORE the horde arrives instead of waiting until AFTER they are already there to get off your butts.

You make it sound like if I upped in time I could meed the horde head on and then all would be fine.  Yeah you meet the horde head on kill a few then die in an 8 on 1.  By the time you make it back to the tower the horde is on your base.  Now what smart guy?  So all your BS watching darbars etc is bullocks.  Like you are the only one who is smart enuff to figure this out.  What a joke.

On Wednesday, there was a CV attacking our shoreline. I upped a 109F4 and fought a few off. We did well, and were able to repulse the attack.

 Uhh then it wasn't a horde.   You see that's what I mean you can't tell a horde from a furball .

But you know me. I don't like the "grab-the-best-plane-for-the-job" approach, though admittedly I fly CHogs off the CV if I know that ju88/LANC formations are expected. But even a 1D can kill an entire formation quite easily. But the "grab-an-LA7" panacea of all woes is pitiful.

Who the hell is talking about an LA7 quit crying about what other people fly all this last quote is, is you beating your chest.  Quit wallowing in your own admiration.  Don't you get tired of patting yourself on the back all the time. lolh.

So don't give me that "I'm so-short-of-time-that-I-need-the-bases-closer-together" crap. In many a tour, your online time exceeds 100 hours. You're a 3-4 hours a day man. "Few precious hours" my arse.

As for checking my hours on line, ( thats what I mean by you have no life lolh ) you'll notice roughly since Nov I have averaged about 40hrs a tour.  This is in no way some exhorbinant amount of time online.  So yes I do have a few precious 40 hours a month that I can fly and I don't want to spend them causually flying around not finding any fights.

Also so what you are saying if people do have all the time in the world they should still be forced to fly for hours not seeing an enemy.  Give me a break.  You cry about the hordes so remendy them move the bases closer.

And as usual you did not answer one of my questions...

1) Please describe what you would accept as the perfect MA game play.

2) Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer, in context with my other post please.