Author Topic: so, you helped huh? (Warsaw Uprising) (Read 6045 times)

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #120 on:** August 03, 2004, 09:03:07 PM »

you know nonthing of japan demaw. Japan used to be where every signle person almost would rather die fighting for their emperor rather than surrender. From my POV Japanese surrending is like committing murder here in the US. Honor was everything to the Japanese. The Marine Corps+ The army couldn't have feilded the amount of troops needed to take over the Japanese islands alone. The brits were dwindling as it was. Unless the USA had drawn upon its youth as Germany had done during the last few months of the war, the US wouldn't have been able get the whole Japanese islands. The Russians on the other Hand still had a fairly big army to attack manchura during the last few months ofthe war.

War not won on the Eastern from BS. The Germans attack Russia with over 3 million men. Just a guess but maybe a little of 50% of what they had. then with thew counter offensive's that just drained more resources. Also russia destroyed the Airforce. They took the oil fields in the ukraine. Which stoppped the Luftwaffe. The Allies in the West just watch then played a small part in defeating germany. The war was pretty much won in 1943 on the eastern front. With the surrender in Stalingrad there was nonthing left to stop the russian's. Army Group South was finish, and with them so were germanies oil fields.

Kursk also Destroyed the Germans. They lost almost a whole panzer Division. That Summer was all down hill. The war was won on the Eastern front.

Had Hilter not attack Russia most of Europe and North Afrika for that matter to would have been under german control until atleast the mid 50's.

lend lease my ass. In case you havn't looked at a map in a long time russia is huge. They would have won anyways. the russia mass production ability is almost as great as the US at the time. They made the T34 in huge quanties then took them by trains over the mountains to the front. The germans couldn't keep up. They did the exact same thing with planes. moved them the where germans couldn't touch them and make them in numbers germans cant match. Lend Lease only gave them temporary planes for only a month. Im sorry but anyone that says lend lease won the war is blinded.

German arrogance ill agree there. Had it been one huge army instead of 3 small armies they would have walked into moscow in 1942. The introduction of the Radial enginegave the germans a chance to counter offense from the air in the winter since it used air to cool its self. In part the Russian winter but the germsn could have over came it.

Thrawn · « **Reply #121 on:** August 03, 2004, 09:11:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
not in the perceived quantities that the left expects! But they've found them!

What a pile of disengenous bull****.

ramzey · « **Reply #122 on:** August 03, 2004, 09:32:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
I mean AK. Same force that started an Uprising. They were fighting Soviet Army behind the lines after it liberated Belorussia and Western Ukraine.

id love to see how history is rewriten

is your sources mention after first cooperation with red army,
that how was liberated Vilnus and Lwow (as i remember)
Polish homeland army liberate towns, start uprising and let red army come in. But aafter that this homeland units was forced to give up weapon, surrounded, arrested and send to syberia or killed. After that no wonder they not like to cooperate with red army.
Orders for our troops was avoid contact with russians and not give up weapon.

Are you suprised they fight? would you give up to russians when they fight with germans 5 years?

Wotan · « **Reply #123 on:** August 03, 2004, 10:47:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by demaw1
Wotan.......russian front....

I do not know the story behind the reason rino said what he said. I do know, that when an American, is pushed far enough to say something like that , it is normally because, some ungreatfull snob, who may owe his or his countrys life to the sacrifice and bloodshed of Americans, said something to demean America.

The belief that ww2 was won on the eastern front is so moronic it defies reason. It was a combined effort: the poor avg russian soldier was being killed by the germans in front, and the russian gestapo from the back.

The only thing that stopped the germans from defeating russia was 1. german arrogance..2. the russian winter..3.lend lease program, which was excused from repayment.

Trucks and spam: Oh but you are so mistaken...We sent them almost everything they had to fight with, make a list we sent it
Those trucks you stuck your nose up in the air about, the number we sent was amazing...Just how long do you think they could have held out with out the trucks.

No one is impressed with your snotty responses, and I certainaly do not care if you read anything or not. It is obvious you read nothing about history.

Your "history channel" education is not going to impress anyone. You know nothing about "why Germany was defeated". You just parrot the same Ami nonsense as Rino.

I have a complete inventory (complete as possible) of lend lease equipment sent to Russia. I don't need you to tell me anything.

Winter didn’t defeat Germany, that’s western arrogance. Germany was beaten by the Red Army on the battle field. To suggest anything less only shows your stupidity. America didn't save the Soviet Union, the Soviets would have defeated Hitler without America.

You probably couldn’t even tell me what "Bagration" was without an internet search. You probably couldn’t tell me the scale of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945.

My "snotty" response is a direct reply to Ami stupidity.

(I am an American btw)

demaw1 · « **Reply #124 on:** August 03, 2004, 10:59:20 PM »

b 17 skull

Yes and for a longer period of time they died for their shogun.

If we did not have the atomic bomb, It is thought we would lose 1.5 million men,that would have been sad. So sorry, if the atomic bomb had not worked there was another plan, We would have done the same to them as germany,without russias help.Why you say? Because the russians DECIDED NOT TO FIGHT.
I am sorry cant help myself.

YOUR AN IDIOT......

If the germans werent so stupid they could have marched into moscow as conquering heros. Why ? because the first damn russian army they ran into wanted to surrender. Why ? because they thought it would be better to live under hitler than stalin. Why? because stalin killed many many many many more russians then hitler ended up killing. '

But no ,the moronic germans and their idiotic superior race crap, made the higher ups feel, they could just run right thru russia. So they shot the russians as they were trying to surrender. The russians had no choice they had to fight. The germans that lived ......lived to regret that desicion.

Sadly that gave rise to the russian gestapo, made up of party people. If ,during a battle, a soldier turned around for any reason, he would be shot. He could not surrender , because he would be shot if anyone was left to shoot him, And they were.... You see.... most of the time they were at the rear . The avg. soldier could not carry a machine gun, only the party soldiers could. the avg soldier was issued the worst weapons and his ammo was rationed.

And you are DUMB enough to believe America could not beat the russians?

Isnt it time for you to crawl back under that rock?

To left and right, sorry for the name calling, guess I cant say I dont do that anymore.

Wotan · « **Reply #125 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:05:35 PM »

The Soviets would not have given up if Moscow fell. Even the Germans knew that.

More of your stupidiity.

demaw1 · « **Reply #126 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:08:26 PM »

WOTAN.........America like any other country has had its share of traitors

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #127 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:09:48 PM »

again your showing just how dumb you are.

Hitler more than likely killed more people than stalin.

Lies, lies, lies, and more lies. The russian's didn't just surrender when they came in contact with german's they atleast tried to put up a fight.

lol where the hell do you come up with this information.

Remember to keep on topic, your just tring to go off because you know your wrong. Lend-lease did nonthing winter did nonthing, and german arrogance had a part in it. Tryo to keep on topci next time:aok

demaw1 · « **Reply #128 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:23:21 PM »

WOTAN ....I said my piece to you.

skull... lol, I love it.....lies ,lies, and more lies.....those words would fit right in....in 1935 to 1945 germany....or 1917 to 1995 russia...lol....who knows maybe russia is still that way.

anonymous · « **Reply #129 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:27:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by demaw1
WOTAN.........America like any other country has had its share of traitors

chill dude arguing over second world war doesnt make anyone a traitor. also did some reading and wotan looks like he knows more than a little. germans lost over two million fighting commies less than half a million fighting elsewhere. wotan give me names of two or three good books on eastern front second world war?

Octavius · « **Reply #130 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:52:46 PM »

wow, demaw, you're out of line. Don't get angry either, you're just uninformed.

4/5 of all German forces were deployed on the Eastern front. While D-day and the western front seemed large, it was merely a fart in the overall scheme of things. Russians argued and still argue to this day that the opening of the second front (d-day) was intentionally delayed. There is only minor truth to that. The aerial bombing campaign occupied the equivalent of about 20 divisions (personnel for AA installations, destroyed city repair, aircraft pilots and maintenance). The Mediterranean was also a sideshow in the overall scheme. This was not delayed, however, the fighting in Italy was intense and Rome finally capitulated only days before D-day.

To say "America won the war!!!" is assinine and ignorant. The war by all means was not won by any single country. The overall sacrifice was emmense. ~60 million lives claimed total.

Thrawn · « **Reply #131 on:** August 03, 2004, 11:58:38 PM »

Beautiful. Two groups of people both saying that the other's information is wrong, and neither posting any sources.

Octavius · « **Reply #132 on:** August 04, 2004, 12:21:42 AM »

oh jebus thrawn. This is common knowledge

No seriously

R. A. C. Parker, The Second World War

ISBN: 0-19-280207-0

William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

ISBN: 1-56852-036-0

Alan Bullock, Hitler: A Study in Tyranny

ISBN: 0-671-72868-7

There, go read'em and decide if they're source enough for you

Wotan · « **Reply #133 on:** August 04, 2004, 12:33:50 AM »

There are quite few good books on the Eastern Front.

Since Last June was the start of the Bagration here is a good starter for under 20 bucks:

Zaloga's Osprey book is a nice intro, and it has some very good, Osprey style, illustrations that really clear things up a lot.

"Hitler's Greatest Defeat" by Col. Adair (who worked a lot with David Glantz) is a good study from the Soviet side of Bagration.

Also Neipold's "The Battle for White Russia" is good as well.

For a full look at the War in ther East

Earl Ziemke's two books (Moscow to Stalingrad and Stalingrad to Berlin) are god but dry rerading.

Clark's "Barbarossa" and Glantz's "When Titans Clashed" are also good.

For Kursk Anders Frankson and Niklas Zetterling Kursk 1943: A Statistical Analysis (Cass Series on the Soviet (Russian) Study of War).

For Stalingrad M. Kehrig - "Stalingrad: Analyse und Dokumentation einer Schlacht"

There are many good unit Histories and books about other specific battles, to many to list.

Most of the above maybe dry in that they are historical examinations rather then day by day accounts.

Rino · « **Reply #134 on:** August 04, 2004, 12:42:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
Your "history channel" education is not going to impress anyone. You know nothing about "why Germany was defeated". You just parrot the same Ami nonsense as Rino.

I have a complete inventory (complete as possible) of lend lease equipment sent to Russia. I don't need you to tell me anything.

Winter didn’t defeat Germany, that’s western arrogance. Germany was beaten by the Red Army on the battle field. To suggest anything less only shows your stupidity. America didn't save the Soviet Union, the Soviets would have defeated Hitler without America.

You probably couldn’t even tell me what "Bagration" was without an internet search. You probably couldn’t tell me the scale of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in 1945.

My "snotty" response is a direct reply to Ami stupidity.

(I am an American btw)

Ok..tell me when did the soviets hit strategic targets in Germany then hero? Also the Japanese were reluctant to engage or even threaten Russia due to the war with the US. Those Siberian troops that counterattacked at Stalingrad were freed up by the lack of threat from the SE.

Stop acting like you're the only one who's ever read a book.