so, you helped huh? (Warsaw Uprising)

[demaw1]

Boroda...............wouldnt let refuel because of faulty drops.




      Boroda you are a sorry excuse for a human being . What you said about refueling is such a lie that when it got to hell the devil gave it back to earth, because it was to much for even him.
   
        LISTEN UP: Ill tell ya all what an ally russia was. allied bombers that where shot up on bombing runs would, if they could ,rather try to make it back to  england thru german defences than land in russia.Why?   because russia put them in pow camps and some they charged with spying.

        Listen up:  the closer we got to berlin the more fire fights we had with russia.  a few times german fighter pilots squads would circle above russian planes that had attacked amreican planes to watch the battle.After it was over the germans just went home......Protest by allied cammond did little,it soon stopped because we kicked your tulips and shot down to many af ya.

         There were fire fights on the ground also....whoa great allies. This was not from avg. russian soldier but russias answer to the ss. O h ya they had that 2 ,1 of the reasons why was the avg russian would rather surrender than live under stalins rule.So when the battle started,if the german didnt get em the russian ss types would shoot their own people in the back if they just turned around.......

[GRUNHERZ]

Boroda the west is coming to get you! The rumors are true comrade!

[Boroda]

I am really sorry that two intellectually challenged creatures interfered this discussion. Sometimes I enjoy pissing them off, but it's quite another case.

Any person who says that nazism is "lesser of two evils" is mentaly diabled or misinformed.

[Angus]

Boroda, from you:
"Read my comments below. Unfortunately it was obvious that "Molotov-Ribbentrop" pact was forced by an "allied" refusal to do anything to assist Poland. "

You're still having problems with this pact, whose existance you were denying just a year (or so) ago.
Maybe I should post a link?

And secondly:

"Sorry, but the Russian refusal to allow "allies" to use Soviet air bases had one big reason: 90% of the supplies dropped by "allied" planes was seized by Germans. It's a sad truth  "

Well, you did permit British planes to fuel up on the way to bomb the Tirpitz. Wonder why, since it only helped the western allies to bring more overpaid and useless equipment to you........

Seriously, you're full of rubbish.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Angus
Boroda, from you:
"Read my comments below. Unfortunately it was obvious that "Molotov-Ribbentrop" pact was forced by an "allied" refusal to do anything to assist Poland. "

You're still having problems with this pact, whose existance you were denying just a year (or so) ago.
Maybe I should post a link?

I was doubting the existance of "secret protocols" to the non-agression pact. Now I am reading Ribbentrop's memoirs written in Nuremburg prison, and I see some proof that this "protocols" didn't exist.

Anyone questioning an existance of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact must go back to school and read some books.

Originally posted by Angus

And secondly:

"Sorry, but the Russian refusal to allow "allies" to use Soviet air bases had one big reason: 90% of the supplies dropped by "allied" planes was seized by Germans. It's a sad truth  "

Well, you did permit British planes to fuel up on the way to bomb the Tirpitz. Wonder why, since it only helped the western allies to bring more overpaid and useless equipment to you........

Seriously, you're full of rubbish.

Well, what I meant was that USSR was protecting it's interests. It's pretty stupid to assist supporting (hehe nice expression) possible insurgents controlled by a hostile government. Especially when 90% of the supplies fall into enemy's hands.

I am full of beer right now

BTW, USSR also supported shuttle-raids from Italy to Ukraine (Poltava), operation Frantic IIRC. Many Soviet veterans remember how they greeted allied air crews there.

[Angus]

Russian beer? I tasted Polish beer, it was good. How is russian beer. MUST KNOW?!?!?!?!?!?!

But seriously, the Russians looked at the Germans beating down the Polish uprising as a job done for them.
Well, you just said it.

And for this:

"Anyone questioning an existance of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact must go back to school and read some books."

So you went and read?

[demaw1]

Octavius.........proof again.......

              No I dont have proof at hand, I am sure I could find it if I took the time to look. They are all books nothing from magazines or newspapers. Thing is after the religion thread I have learned a few things about how things work in here...It seems most everyones proof comes from newspapers or magazines found on a place called  google,. Thing is all information I have came from books, some even written in the peoples own hand. It didnt sastify you last time even tho I told you how to find the info.

                 Then phookat jumped in and started saying same things about proof.Took a while but I figured out if you reject my proof maybe I should turn it around..Well I asked for proof from him on things I knew he had wrong which was most of his arguement. Lo and behold no response no nothing because it ended up he didnt have a leg to stand on.Only explaination I know.
                I wont do that here but I will say this, my great uncle who is around 85 has a bullet hole in his shoulder,he said it came from a russian rifle near berlin ,hes never trusted the russians .thats enough for me

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Boroda
I am really sorry that two intellectually challenged creatures interfered this discussion. Sometimes I enjoy pissing them off, but it's quite another case.

Any person who says that nazism is "lesser of two evils" is mentaly diabled or misinformed.

and subject to deportation to and a slow death from starvation and overwork in one of the many gulags run by the govt you so fervently defend. or you could be jew like with nazis. or you could be religous. or you could be reported by neighbor for saying you not like communism or communist official. long list of reasons. and at end of day more souls in heaven early from murderous use of communist authority and power than from nazis murderous acts. reason may be nazis were stopped earlier than commies but both were evil and you are defending one of them. i find it good for a laugh that someone like you is calling me "mentally disabled or misinformed". somewhere in russia a village is missing its political officer.

[anonymous]

forgot to ask when you said ninety percent russian pows never make it home are you sure you not talking about soviet govt sending russians captured by germans to gulag for slow death after end of second world war?

[bikekil]

Hmm... after the whole day of readong/posting i have to say it's going to wild here now

First of all. We had our past with Russiand and Germans since ages. As i said few months ago in the other thread... we murdered then, then they murdered us and again and again... since ages

Now, i saluted Germans because they were and still are appoligising for the war and all of this.

The same way i can appologise (as a Pole) for every single man murdered by Poles during our strikes on Russia or Germany or any other nation in the past (i'm not stupid... i know nobody cares and my appologies are worth nothing, but to be fair with myself and my feel of a pride and honour, i could do it ever single time).
Now,
i'm not blaming Russians in this thread (anyway that was not my intention to do so) because i don't see them as our Allies in WW2. Hell, i could go to Russia and drink few bottles ov Vodka with Boroda as i stand now and i'm sure it'd be a good time. Poles and Russians have similar nature ya know

But of course it's obvious that Russkies was the very first guys that could help... but they was not stupid (i mean Stalin, not the soldiers) and he knew that the Uprising was against him almost that much as against the Germans...

Btw, i'm sure Russian soldiers (and the Poles who were with them and were moved back prevented from helping the uprisers) were talking a lot about people dying on the other side of the river and i believe many of them would help if they had a chance.


The whole thread was meant to ask about the friendship of our Allies. To ask what they really did to help us... because the situation is clear with our enemies - enemies came here to get our lands... but the friends who promised to help? I can't see this promised help so that was the whole point

Boroda, your comparision is not accurate in one, but huge point.
He are helping with IRAQ because of at least 3 things:
1) We want it (opposite to what we had in Poland after the WW2)
2) We have the Allies who were attacked by some fu#$%rs and we are supporting our Allies (opposite to what our Allies did to us during the WW2)
3) We believe we are helping the civiliand over threr (at this point i realias that the goverments are dealling about things like this.. and i'm sure iwe have something promised because of the fact we are there... i wish it's different but it's not... anyway.. i believ that our guys  are doing a right things there and they are helping, not burning and ruining the place)

If we will fail our Allies some day (because of the politicians of some sort) i will be the first one who say "i'm sorry" and you will be the first ones to hear how ashames i am (not that it changes anything for the Allies unfortunatelly...)
I wish we will never fail tho.

[straffo]

What's this fascination with the Curzon line Boroda ?
Didn't the soviet deport enought pole to leave the majority to the Ukrenian and Bielarussian ?

Next you will say the Poles in Kazakhstan were just tourist

tss tss a bit of honesty don't hurt , you know poland was bigger in the past and it's current  borders are almost a joke
(especially  since 1945 when they shifted to the west for a unknown reason )


Na Zdorovie

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Boroda
Grun, you keep amazing me.

Yes, Soviet Army should have helped the uprising that was started to oppose Soviet influence! Yes, Stalin had to send another 200-300 thousands of Soviet soldiers to assist the force that was already fighting against Soviet Army behind our lines in Belorussia!

Damn, that Russians must be superhumans! After operation Bagration they had to keep on throwing themselves into a bloodbath without any rest and regrouping. And other battles that went on at the same time (Sandomir beachhead) were unimportant.

Bourgeous Poland with it's "government" in London was our enemy. That sad loosers are to blame for the Uprising and it's failure. It's a good example of how some stupid bastards with political ambitions can screw everything up

about bastards with political ambition i can agree with you
they decide to sucrifice people in last stand , trying to keep old order in Poland.
Stalin dont like to have political oposition, so let them die

about what enemy forces behinde russian army lines on belorussia you talking about?

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Boroda
Do you really believe that Soviets "enslaved" you?... If so - sorry for that

I do think of Poland as of an ally. My Grand Father provided artillery support for Koscushko division (he served in Guards Mortar Corps). I only remember that he said nazis were fighting Poles more severe then Russians...

............................. ...
We also don't need apologies for 20000 (at least) Russian POWs who disappeared in Polish camps after WWI and 1920 war.

for you grand father as for veteran who fight against nazism and help our troops.
But tell me if he wil get order to support german unit fighting for red army will he refuse order? i dont think so

Do you talking about thos prisonesrs who die from typhus epidemy, thos one who stay in poland and settle down there or about thos who join ukrainian petlura army to fight against comunists?

[ramzey]

Originally posted by bikekil
( a side note to Ramzey, instead of talking about reading the books, you could try to use your head in more creative way. You don't believe there was no way to help uprisiers right? If so, why you entered the thread saying that Allies were just watching?)

So still, the bottom line is - our Allies did nothing (but now i could add, "did nothing, but some are arguing about the reasons).

Noone took your hand and signed that you will help us. You promised it for some reason. Now my judgement is based on what you did, not you could or could not do.

i use my head in cretive way, not belive blinde in propaganda movies as you do.


No i not belive was exist effective way to help uprising forces, cuz they screw up  at the begining. Cuz they where ordered to fight without chance to win.
Politics decide for them earlier and sucrifice of those brave man's and womans was useless.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Boroda
Great. In 1939 USSR returned it's parts occupied by Poland since 1920. Ever heard of Curzon line? Do you really think that nazi occupation was better then Soviet?

Looking at "invasion" to Poland from practical point of view: do you think that USSR had to refuse from getting some land, several hundreed kilometers, from Germans? Maybe this distance saved Moscow in 1941...

If Poland was a friendly country, if it didn't participate in division of Czechoslovakia in 1939 (that's why Poland didn't give Red Army the permission to assist Czech army or even cross Polish airspace), if it didn't wage agressive war against Soviet land in 1920 - everything could be much better.

Also please try to find some information about Soviet-British-French negotiations in Moscow in August 1939. It was obvious that "allies" will not help Poland, and USSR was the only power that could deploy troops immediately against Germany. Unfortunately - it was too much, Stalin didn't want to engage in a war for "allied" promices when they openly stated they will not engage in at least several months. So he had no other choice then to sign a treaty with Hilter

easym easy comerade Boroda l-)
You guys loose war in 1920 but you guys start it
Your troops was close to warsaw and we push you back and stop our forces not going too far in to russia. Som part of land was for us new. But thats was punishment and repay for your attack.
Do you think we should refuse to take som land wichone could save us from another red army raid inside our territory?

About Czech,
how do you imagine us, asking for free pass to mongholia , beucose we need to suport mongolinan fighting with japane?
Please not make me laugh, i dont think any country will let enemy army pass their territory if they are not in war with same enemy.
We where not in war with germans in 1938

Stalin did what he think was best for him, at last both, Stalin and hitler had same issue. Rule the world