Author Topic: La-7.....frusteration.....rising..... (Read 6121 times)

humble · « **Reply #105 on:** November 10, 2004, 01:35:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
humble,

Are you disagreeing that a frontal shot has preference in AH? Or, are you taking a partial sentence out of context and making an incoherent statement about it? I missed your point.

Regards,

Malta

Hmmm seemed pretty coherent to me....but I'll simplify it for you.

Given a choice only a moron elects a front quarter shot vs a rear quarter shot...

Thats not ment as an insult or an attack...just a statement of common sense. Again the ideal "shot" in air combat is a "plane form" shot. I'll post a clip or still shot to highlight it when I get home....

Now a front quarter shot beats no shot hands down...just not a good 1st choice...

Zanth · « **Reply #106 on:** November 10, 2004, 01:36:15 PM »

http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/totalstats.php?sortby=kill_sort

It's the spits that seem to be taking the most beating with the new planes?

humble · « **Reply #107 on:** November 10, 2004, 01:38:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
There is some contention to my statements? And your point being? Is there an argument? It looks like the answer is no.

Reading a book and understanding the contents are very different.

Regards,

Malta:rofl

Obviously you read Shaw...but you didn't understand the contents very well. Look at the pictures....they help a bit:rofl

stantond · « **Reply #108 on:** November 10, 2004, 02:13:35 PM »

humble,

So, there is contention with my statement but no arguement other that 'no, its you who don't understand'. I did not pay to come here for an argument. If you don't agree that is fine. I never expected being personally attacked though. Are you an Arabian Knight too? That might explain some things.

I must have seriously struck a nerve here! I will elaborate on what I was saying again. Shaw's book is based on a rear quarter shot as the goal. Aces High does not give that shot preference. Frontal shots have precidence in AH.

That statement makes the guidelines and rules in Shaw not applicable. You can disagree, but stop taking my statements out of context and personally attacking me! That makes me very angry.

I never really had much reason to visit these boards, but I may have found a couple.

Regards,

Malta

Zanth · « **Reply #109 on:** November 10, 2004, 02:48:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
Frontal shots have precidence in AH.

I don't have any data to back me up, but my in my gut I disagree with this statement. The strongest position is still the 6 shot, especially with MY gunnery.

It has been a long time since I read shaws, but I do seem to remember a good portion was more relative to getting a missle shot solution.

( http://www.netaces.org is a great resource. The stuff I learned on is on there from Air Warrior (Rockman's lectures MAstering the Merge )

If I understand you though, this is what a perfect shot looks like for you? (ANd I would say you shouldnt even shoot here)

Tilt · « **Reply #110 on:** November 10, 2004, 02:53:37 PM »

plan view cockpit shot always gets the best results for me..........

I almost want the guy to break turn....... true 6 shots end up using much more precious Svak/B20 ammo

Zanth · « **Reply #111 on:** November 10, 2004, 02:58:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
plan view cockpit shot always gets the best results for me..........

I almost want the guy to break turn....... true 6 shots end up using much more precious Svak/B20 ammo

Those are good but with normal planes they are also alot harder for me to line up, and if you miss or only wound him you got to re-engage all over again for a new shot. (If he doesnt reverse on ya or someone else kills him first that is)

dedalos · « **Reply #112 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:12:52 PM »

Same here. if I am on your 6 at d200 to d400 you proly safe. You turn you die. I think its because any shot other than 6 or 12, gives you a biger target to shoot at.

SlapShot · « **Reply #113 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:24:09 PM »

Shaw's book is based on a rear quarter shot as the goal. Aces High does not give that shot preference. Frontal shots have precidence in AH.

I read thru all your previous posts and can only find your reasons for "Frontal shots have precidence in AH" in the following ...

A front quarter shot (rather than rear) is what you want. That makes for different preferred maneuvering such as horizontal scissors and reversals.

If "horizontal scissors and reversals" is your reasoning for preferring frontal shots, then so be it ... for you. I would much prefer what humble has described ("plane form" shot in the rear quarter area) as to where I want to be when trying to gain a guns solution on the enemy.

If I am anywhere in this vicinity (rear quarter) chances are very very good that you will die and the chances of you getting a guns solution on me is very very remote.

Trying to take the front quarter shot has low probability and, if missed, causing a reversal after the miss is not an easy task.

humble · « **Reply #114 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:24:58 PM »

That statement makes the guidelines and rules in Shaw not applicable. You can disagree, but stop taking my statements out of context and personally attacking me! That makes me very angry.

1st I'm not personally attacking you, I'm calling your blanket statement that front quarter shots take presidence totally wrong...there is a difference. Your the one that "attacked" someone else. If your saying you cant hit someone from dead six thats a gunnery problem...why you prefer a "front quarter" to a "rear quarter" shot is beyond me. To go further and say "Shaw is wrong {in AH} is comically absurd. It's your ideas I'm attacking not you....so grow up.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #115 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:34:18 PM »

Quote

Originaly quoted by stantond
Reading a book and understanding the contents are very different.

And studying a book is different than reading a book. I studied Shaw, it opened up all kinds of tactics, energy management, angles, principles of ACM. Shaw is used to teach real fighter pilots, and widely embraced by the Sim community

Quote

Originaly quoted by stantond
Shaw's book is based on a rear quarter shot as the goal. Aces High does not give that shot preference. Frontal shots have precidence in AH.

Shaws book is based on bringing your weapons system into an effective firing solution, and to survive before and after doing so. For a guns solution this often tends to be a 5 - 7 o'clock tracking shot. 11 - 1 snap shots can be quite deadly in both real life and in AH2.

If you would study Shaw, you would find out about what this thread started off to be; how to defeat a superior airplane.

DoctorYO · « **Reply #116 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:48:28 PM »

I have to concur with humble; attacking Shaws book (my acm/tactic bible) is pathetic... then again im biased to it.. but then again so are alot of people..

Shaws book is really a outstanding work of aircombat's past and present that every flight sim buff should read.. And i dont work for his publisher either.. yes you most likely will find good info out there just not all in one hardcover thats the kicker....

Even today I still skim through its pages for insight on various tactics...

Some of the crap you see in the main (jousting for example) would rarely happen on the battlefield due to one universal aspect.. FEAR... online you have none or little.. in real life you have alot...... so claiming that some of shaws excerpts from his book are not entirely applicable to HTC is a valid point..however, the basis of getting on someones six is still used today even by modern fighter pilots.. so claiming its moot or outdated is just plain wrong....

My prefered method of killing someone is still the saddle and then the shot...

yeah some in this game are good at high aspect angle shots (taki comes to mind..) and such but the easiest method of downing someone with least threat to yourself is the 6 shot.. nuff said...

No rebuttal

DoctorYo

Karnak · « **Reply #117 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:50:49 PM »

Speaking of Shaw, I need to read his book. I have it, but I have never finished it.

Thanks for the reminder.

Shane · « **Reply #118 on:** November 10, 2004, 04:49:15 PM »

i never read shaw.

most of what i picked up i did on my own thru experience and then later found the appropriate terminology for whatever.

i also did some basic research about 2 years after i started flight sims - which is where i learned the terminology and stuff. pictures were very helpful.

maybe...

Redd · « **Reply #119 on:** November 10, 2004, 05:25:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I hope you don't include me as saying the LA7 is easy to kill in a 1 on 1 fight with a 190A8.

But when in the MA do you get 1 on 1 fights? Very rarely for me anyways. The MA is a bar room brawl, not a duel of gentlemen at dawn.

The MA requires management of a high energy state at almost all times if you want to fly home rather than walk home with your nuts in a paper bag.

The LA7 (like any plane) can be attacked successfully in a non-vulching situation. Stay high, stay fast, don't turn, and disengage if you are losing your high e state.

Translation:

Stay High = alt monkey

Stay fast = cherry picker

Don't turn = hell it's a 190, they don't turn

Disengage = Run-90 dweeb

That's how I fight anyways

How do you manage to stay awake at the stick ?