to Toad
>>Now, go ahead and excuse it as "just a little fun" or "the German women deserved it" or "the Russian troops deserved a little revenge."
I can show you citates when said then americans do 9/11. Lie? No doubt.
If someone wrote something then there is no doubt in it for you? Maybe some documented by germans historical evidences, no? Just two guys from London and you buy it? Seems like western copy of Pravda to me :-)
BTW, I can show you official documents ... forgot ... prikazy ... comands to army. They are in russian, but you can translate it throught Babelfish or something.
>>If you think otherwise, you've watched too many Hollywood movies.
Maybe I read too many books? :-) In Russian Encyclopedia said that on 1984 there was 37,5 mln. of indians in whoole world (mostly in Paraguai, Bolivia and Guatemala). Most of the tribes were totaly wiped out. In Canada and USA live mostly in reservations. Black on wite.
Now, western sources:
M. D. Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual (1897): 30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered.
David Barrett, World Christian Trends: Conquistadors killed 15M Amerindians
Coe, Snow and Benson, Atlas of Ancient America (1986)
Total pre-Columbian population: 40M
Mexico: Original population of 11M to 25M ("lower figure commands more support") fell to 1.25M (1625)
Peru: Pop. fell from 9M (1533) to >500,000 (early 17th C)
Brazil: Original population of 2.5M to 5.0M ("recent commentators favoring the higher") fell to 1M
Massimo Livi-Bacci, Concise History of World Population History 2d (1996)
Mexico: Population fell from 6.3M (1548) to 1.9M (1580) to 1M (1605)
Peru: Pop. fell from 1.3M (1572) to 600,000 (1620)
Canada: from 300,000 (ca. 1600) to < 100,000 (ca. 1800)
USA: from 5M (1500) to 60,000 (ca. 1800)
R.J. Rummel estimates that 13,778,000 American Indians died of democide in the 16th through 19th Centuries:
Total dead among native Americans in colonial era: 49.5M out of pre-contact population of 55M
Democides in this: 5M
Democides among Indians, post-colonial era: 8,763,000
Democides in US: 15,000
Skidmore & Smith, Modern Latin America (1997)
Mexico: Population fell from 25M (1519) to 16.8M (1523) to 1.9M (1580) to 1M (1605)
Peru: from 1.3M (1570, forty years after Conquest) to <600,000 (1620)
Stannard, American Holocaust (1992): 100,000,000 deaths across time
16th Century death toll: between 60M and 80M
Panama, 1514-1530: 2M Indians killed
Mexico
Central: Population fell from 25.0M (1519) to 1.3M (1595)
SE: fell from 1,700,000 to 240,000
North: fell from 2,500,000 to 320,000
Peru, 16th C.: between 8.5M and 13.5M people destroyed.
Fredric Wertham, A Sign For Cain : An Exploration of Human Violence (1966): South American death toll of 15,000,000.
>>USA: from 5M (1500) to 60,000 (ca. 1800)
Your nation killed at least 4.000.000 of them.
And how about this:
>>Stannard, American Holocaust (1992): 100,000,000 deaths across time.
Nazi are angels comparing to you if that true :-)
And how about mexicanos in 1846-48? Your nation occupied > 1/2 of their land (and this is > 1/3 of yours).
>>However, to cast all whites in that mold just shows how little you've studied the subject.
I can mirror you own words about OUR history.
>>You must be proud of that and of helping the Nazis conquer Poland.
And you must be proud for helping USSR to occupy Poland :-) Poland come to USSR by Potsdam agreement signed by USA, England and USSR.
>>Wrong again. Even after Nagasaki, the military leaders wanted to fight on. Hirohito finally overruled them and surrendered.
So that gave you the right to destroy 300.000 civilians?
>>So did every nation that dropped bombs in WW2.
Nuclear bombs?
>>But we did not have our Secret Police murder 14,000+ POW's and we did not allow our troops to rape 90,000+ women in captured cities for two weeks while the Officers ignored it.
Sure, you just melted three times more people. Nazi burnt 2.5 millions of ukraine civilians, you melted 300.000 of japan civilians. What difference? Only in numbers?
>>Well, that and the fact that you continue to defend such barbarity instead of admitting it and admitting that it was a shameless, brutal act.
So KILLING CIVILIANS ISN`T BRUTAL FOR YOU?!!! It was an every day bussines for USA troops?
>>Afghanistan has no oil.
... and get no repair maded. You now only have military bases there, no more.
>>It took the Amreekans coming to make political choice possible.
... between worse and worser...
>>Hardly, its a figment of your imagination and a willingness to use incorrect numbers.
But why you didn`t comment other parts? You know, about children deathes and 400 "people" died (and > 10.000 sub-humans)? One more lie? And what isn`t lie for you? Only what you president and TV say to you? What your american variant of Pravda said to you?
And about Katyn. Where did you find number of 24.000. OfficialWESTERN sources:
Katyn Massacre (April-May 1940):
Dictionary of 20C World History: 14,000 Polish officers systematically killed. 4,500 bodies discovered by Germans.
30 July 2000 Sunday Telegraph [London]: 15,000 k.
Paul Johnson: 15,000 -- a third at Katyn, the rest in Sov. conc. camps.
Gilbert: 15,000 Polish POWs sent to 3 camps - Starobelsk, Kozelsk, Ostashkov - all killed. 4,400 from Kozelsk killed at Katyn.
4.500 bodies found at Katyn - maximum. 15.000 total poland officers punished - maximum. So,where youfind 24000?Read from American Pravda newspapper? :-)