Question to Finns

[MiloMorai]

Holy crap Holden McGroin were did those 2 bozos come from?

I have never seen any better examples of brainwashing come out of the now defunct CCCP before.

Better to let them live in their fantasy world reading Pravda.


Should I mention the untold number of lives lost transporting Lend-Lease supplies to the Soviet Union prier to June 6 1944 so the could fight their GPW?

It is good that the Allies were fighting the Germans in the MTO for those German troops would have helped in their fight against the Commies. It was good that the Allies were fighting in the air in the ETO since that tied more troops (ground and air) that could have been tranferred to the EF. Never mind the manpower tied up in defending German and rebuilding the factories. Yes, those weapons lost would have been of much help for the Germans on the EF.

[Suave]

Originally posted by bikekil
Genozaur,
Our nation is doing better and better every year since we kicked commies outta here in '89, but thanks for your concern :-)
 

Don't you know the commies were never there? Jeeze Filip, it's your own country. You should know that USSR never, ever had intention of controlling your country

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Nekto
I've read Russian sites about this case and they tell the story quite otherwise. Pilot didn't know for sure it was a civilian plane. It behaved as a mature spy-in-the-sky.
http://nvo.ng.ru/printed/history/2004-06-11/5_karelia.html (in Russian)

Yes, refused to obey.

Who usually refuses to obey orders from interceptors, when flying over the land with high concentration of military objects? - You are right. Bombers or other unfriendly guests.

It's funny that an article is published by the newspaper controlled by anti-Russian "political emigrant" Boris Berezovsky. Even this bastards have to admit that there was no Soviet fault.

The article is almost breath-taking. The part when ground radars see the target  divide - and this is always a clear and obvious sign of a missile launch... What poor guys at radar screens thought - we'll never know, but it's definetly one of the moments when their hair could turn grey in a matter of mitutes...

And here Toad lies again, but we already got used to it: an intercept happened in the sunset, the pilot only read some "chinese" letter on board, that was misinterpreted on the ground as "canadian", and the plane wasn't identified as "civilian", it had the lights off. Soviet pilot had to literally bush the 707 to the lake, he risked his life forcing the violator to land.

Toad, as usual - your propaganda lies contradict with relaity. Maybe it's time to rethink some things?

[Boroda]

Needless to say that Soviet pilot was a real sniper to shoot off a wingtip of that 707, it took him two missiles. Cpt. Alexandr Bosov intentionally tried not to damage fuselage.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Boroda
Toad, as usual - your propaganda lies contradict with relaity. Maybe it's time to rethink some things?

Yeah, maybe he will rethink trying to argue with such a brainwashed person.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Genozaur, the Russians suffered so badly in WW2 because Stalin purged the military of anyone who Josef figured was a personal threat.  There was no leadership in the army, because they were all dead or in Siberian work camps.

I already posted my attitude to "purges" above in this thread. High commanders "purged" showed their perfect inability to command in modern war. They were proud heros of Civil War, and could command only anarchic partisan gangs. Marshall Bluher was the best example: he completely lost the lake Hasan conflict with Japan, drinking himself unconscious when his troops were loosing the battle.

Another Western myth. Sorry.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The economy of the Soviet Union was a mess, because Stalin and the central committee followed the stupid policy of central control of the economy.  So the economic engine that wins wars was not in existance in the USSR.

What?!

USSR have built industry from nothing in 10 years, and then relocated it to Urals and Siberia in a few months in 1941-42.

You call it a mess? No other economy in the world could do things like that. No other economy then super-efficient planned economy of Stalinist USSR could rebuild country from a complete ruin and reach a pre-war production level by 1947, in two years after the war.

These are facts, without any political or humaitarian attitude. We survived. Anyone at our place didn't have a slightest chance.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, maybe he will rethink trying to argue with such a brainwashed person.

Toad keeps insisting on evil intentions of the Soviet side by stating that "707 was identified as a civilian airliner" and that "Korean pilots tried to communicate with interceptors". And Nekto gives an evidence that it wasn't identified as a civilian and that Korean pilots intentionally refused to obey Soviet orders.

I call Toad's attempt to blame eeevil Soviets an obvious and intentional lie.

Who's brainwashed? You guys don't have any other sources of information then official propaganda lies approved by the "party line". It's obvious.

[Boroda]

I need to introduce another pathetic member of this discussion to Nekto and Raven, as they are new to this forum. This will help you to understand his position.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
It is good that the Allies were fighting the Germans in the MTO for those German troops would have helped in their fight against the Commies.  

3 German divisions in North Africa. 1% of a force fighting at the Eastern Front.

A decisive force, no doubt!

Now I should repeat that American participation in defeating Japanese ground forces was a minor factor compared to Soviet Manchurian operation in August 1945. Again - evil Soviets have done all the job for the "allies".

If you post things like I quoted above - then you have to agree with this.

[Nekto]

Originally posted by Boroda
I need to introduce another pathetic member of this discussion to Nekto and Raven, as they are new to this forum. This will help you to understand his position.

Internet is a canvas on which everyone paints self-portrait. Nice picture!

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Allied occupation of Japan ended in 1952, with the exeption of Okinawa, (1972) and Iwo Jima (1973)

Allied occupation of (west) Germany ended in 1955.

They had formal ceremonies and everything.  I'm sure it must have made the papers.

I was not asking about ceremonial tea parties.
My question is plain and simple : when did the USA occupational forces leave Germany and
 Japan ? Obviously, they did not do it in 1952, 1955, 1972, 1973.
Or maybe they really left and the Germans and the Japanese just do not know about it ?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by genozaur
I was not asking about ceremonial tea parties.
My question is plain and simple : when did the USA occupational forces leave Germany and
 Japan ? Obviously, they did not do it in 1952, 1955, 1972, 1973.
Or maybe they really left and the Germans and the Japanese just do not know about it ?

Now get ready to listen that US forces in Japan provide security to Russia, because officially Russia and Japan still didn't sign a peace treaty, only a cease-fire agreement and in fact it's Russia that occupies Japan.

I love when people try to apply logics to propaganda slogans

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So as long as it's policy, it's not barbaric.... got it.

Holden, I have already lectured Toad on the usage of the derogatory word 'barbarians' and he's got some idea about clean-shaven Romans killing by tens of thousands the filthy "barbarians" (known now as the Germans, the French, the British, the Russians, the Ukrainians, and ... the list is quite impressive).
Of course, I can't forbid you to think that saving one's own life by defending yourself from enemy is "barbaric."
Remember the "righteous" Nazi soldiers and the "barbaric" Soviet partizans ?

[MiloMorai]

USSR have built industry from nothing in 10 years, and then relocated it to Urals and Siberia in a few months in 1941-42.

Who did you think designed your truck plants and supplied the machinery?

Oh yes, those trucks were based on Western designs.

Now I should repeat that American participation in defeating Japanese ground forces was a minor factor compared to Soviet Manchurian operation in August 1945.

JHC, more brainwashing. The Commies were fighting third rate troops. Says much about the Commies that they fought against a foe that the Americans had on the run. Where were those Commie soldiers in 1942, 1943, 1944 when Japan was a force to be reconed with? Does not say much that the Commies could only fight on one front, at a time.

3 German divisions in North Africa. 1% of a force fighting at the Eastern Front.

You really have an educational deficiency. The MTO was more than North Africa. Nice of you to leave out the manpower tied up and production lost to Allied airpower.

This is what commie brainwashing does.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Boroda
USSR have built industry from nothing in 10 years, and then relocated it to Urals and Siberia in a few months in 1941-42.

You call it a mess? No other economy in the world could do things like that. No other economy then super-efficient planned economy of Stalinist USSR could rebuild country from a complete ruin and reach a pre-war production level by 1947, in two years after the war.

It's basing economic decision on socialist stupidity like that one that helped bring down the USSR.  You see a great achievement.  But what you don't see is everything that could have been accomplished if those resources were not misallocated, but instead went towards sectors the market actually had a demand for them.

So many geniuses in the USSR, but it took you decades to realise that communism is an inefficiant economic model.  Hell even China is become capitalist.

These are facts, without any political or humaitarian attitude. We survived. Anyone at our place didn't have a slightest chance.

Great Russia survived, whoop-dee-do.   The west flourished.  This is why the people that live in countries that were in the USSR inluding Russia are begging and pleading to get the hook up with the EU.