Author Topic: Question to Finns (Read 29221 times)

mora · « **Reply #750 on:** March 27, 2005, 05:47:54 AM »

I can't believe this madness is still goin on...

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #751 on:** March 27, 2005, 05:49:22 AM »

So there's some hope he will grow out of it, eh Raven?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #752 on:** March 27, 2005, 05:51:29 AM »

to Holden

>>Genozaur, the Russians suffered so badly in WW2 <...>

And why France capitulate so fast? Someone kills all of their officers? Their economics was a mess? And why "allies" start war only in 1944, when Germans were alredy fleeing from Soviet army? You think that England alone, for example, can handle Nazi threat? You think that Zhukov and others were cluesless idiots? You think that KV-1 (Klim Voroshilov) and JS-1 (Joseph Stalin) tank were bad?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #753 on:** March 27, 2005, 05:53:23 AM »

to Holden

>>So there's some hope he will grow out of it, eh Raven?

Sure, after returning back to Russia or, at least, after immigration to Europe.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #754 on:** March 27, 2005, 06:23:30 AM »

Raven,

I am trying not to be a history professor, but the draw is just too great.

France fell quickly because they put all their defensive strategy into the ill-conceived Maginot line. It cost way too much and the Nazis swept around through Belgium and hit it from the back side.

The French did not spend their defense funding wisely. There are many ways to lose wars. One way is to be French (could not help it)

1944? The Allies were fighting the Nazis before Russia was.

The UK and France declared war of Germany when Russia joined with Germany in the invasion of Poland.

The US joined the allied cause in 1941 and fought in North Africa, Sicily and Italy as well as the Pacific and air operations all over europe and indochina well before 1944.

You should probably read a few books.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #755 on:** March 27, 2005, 06:37:00 AM »

to Holden

>>1944? The Allies were fighting the Nazis before Russia was.

Soviet army fight nazi till 1936, in Hispany.

And allies declare war to nazi before USSR, but started to actively fight them only in 1944.

>>You should probably read a few books.

You mean comic books? "Spiderman vs Third Reih"? And other american history books?

I read "Memoris and reflections", memoirs of Georgiy Zhukov for now. I think, that this is not so bad spurce of information.

Fishu · « **Reply #756 on:** March 27, 2005, 06:41:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
You think that KV-1 (Klim Voroshilov) and JS-1 (Joseph Stalin) tank were bad?

Minority of the tanks you mean?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #757 on:** March 27, 2005, 06:55:35 AM »

to Fishu

>>Minority of the tanks you mean?

Missed "s".

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #758 on:** March 27, 2005, 07:03:26 AM »

Raven, you should read a book about Erwin Rommel.

Tell the British at Al Alemain that they were not fighting the Nazi's actively.

Read up on North Africa and the Sicily campaign, the Battle of France and Dunkirk, The Battle of Britian, the sinking of the Bismark, and the Battle of the Atlantic.

Read up on the daylight bombing of the Reich by the USAAF and the nighttime campaign of the RAF. Oh, and allied liberty ship support of the Soviets bringing supplies through Murmansk.

No active fighting in any of those?

And the Spanish civil war does not count, because that was before the Soviets were allied with the Nazis in the invasion of Poland.

âîðîí Âû - èäèîò

Raven_2 · « **Reply #759 on:** March 27, 2005, 07:36:36 AM »

>>Raven, you should read a book about Erwin Rommel.

Sure, North Africa campaign was a major thing in all WW2 and by winning in it allies destroy nazi threat at all... :-)

>>No active fighting in any of those?

West front opened at 6 june 1944. If you think that Sicilia and North Africa can be called "war with nazi" not only formaly... Well, then Rommel corps is equal for you to the ~180 nazi divisions that attack USSR 22 june 1941, I suppose.

Now you understand what I mean by "fight actively"? Open front and fight with main nazi forces.

>>And the Spanish civil war does not count, because that was before the Soviets were allied with the Nazis in the invasion of Poland.

Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was non-agression pact, not alliance. In such way you can claim that USA and nazi was allies, cause there lend-lease system beetwen them.

bikekil · « **Reply #760 on:** March 27, 2005, 07:41:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by genozaur
Bik, that's why you nation is so miserable now.
Because you are unable to appreciate your own wise people, and you don't want to listen to anybody else's good advice.

Genozaur,
Our nation is doing better and better every year since we kicked commies outta here in '89, but thanks for your concern :-)

Honestly, not really know what good advice and what wise people you mean and would be keen to know it.
Or maybe you mean we should listen the good advice that Russia said? Well... we had to follow Soviet Union orders for a loooong time, and only mantally ill people can say that it wa sgood for us... well, i'm sure we will do (and we are doing) way better once listen to ourselves

Oh, and by the way, look at your goverment pages, as as i heard you finally said something about Katyn and it soulnds like your govermant agreed with Poland.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #761 on:** March 27, 2005, 07:49:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was non-agression pact, not alliance. In such way you can claim that USA and nazi was allies, cause there lend-lease system between them.

So this "you take the east half and we will take the west half" agreement to partition Poland was non-agression?

The Lend-Lease Act was passed by Congress on March 11, 1941. It provided that the president could ship weapons, food, or equipment to any country whose struggle against the Axis assisted U.S. defense.

Your density amazes me.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #762 on:** March 27, 2005, 08:13:29 AM »

to Holden

>>So this "you take the east half and we will take the west half" agreement to partition Poland was non-agression?

You can open any encyclopedia and see that this pact was formaly non-agression pact. (BTW, how would you call Muchen agreement, then?)

And what you think about part of CZ occupation by Poland in 1938, with nazi? Poland, Germans and Hungary attack CZ - so, according to your logic, poles were nazi ally (cause they both attacked one country). And CZ was by USSR/France protectorate by that time (France betray them and they reject USSR help). Nazi ally attack USSR ally - again, according to your logic.

And now you blame Soviets for counter-attack in 1939? :-)

Raven_2 · « **Reply #763 on:** March 27, 2005, 08:17:11 AM »

to bik

>>Oh, and by the way, look at your goverment pages, as as i heard you finally said something about Katyn and it soulnds like your govermant agreed with Poland.

Nope, not a word for now.

bikekil · « **Reply #764 on:** March 27, 2005, 08:54:58 AM »

Unofficial translation from Russian

Russian MFA Information and Press Department Commentary Regarding a Question from Interfax News Agency Concerning Adoption by Polish Sejm of Resolution on Katyn Tragedy of 1940

567-24-03-2005

Question: How does Moscow regard the adoption by the Polish Sejm of a resolution calling upon Russia to condemn the execution of the Polish servicemen in 1940?

Commentary: Disclosing the truth about the Katyn crime back in the early 1990s, the leadership of our country took a principled position on this question, which found reflection also in the joint statement of the Russian and Polish presidents as they signed the Treaty on Friendly and Good-Neighborly Cooperation between the two countries on May 22, 1992. We would consider it relevant to quote it:

"The memory of the victims of totalitarianism is sacred. Russia and Poland, condemning the antihuman essence of totalitarianism in all its manifestations, declare their resolve to overcome the negative legacy of the past and to build qualitatively new bilateral relations in the future based on the positive values in the history of both peoples and states as well as on international law, democracy and the observance of human rights."

We also recall the statement of five years ago by then Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Poland Jerzy Buzek at the ceremony on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Katyn tragedy: "Katyn - this symbol of Polish torments - can become a symbol of common memory, a pledge to jointly overcome the difficult part of history for the sake of a common future, for the sake of strengthening the friendly feelings between Poles and Russians and for the sake of building friendly relations between our two counties."

As we understand, these assessments remain relevant to this day.

-------------------------------------------
here is the link to the Russian MFA page:
http://www.ln.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/e78a48070f128a7b43256999005bcbb3/a539865c65f4690dc3256fcf0028d2ef?OpenDocument