Author Topic: Question to Finns (Read 28778 times)

Toad · « **Reply #870 on:** March 29, 2005, 07:09:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seeker
Man; if it's this hard to talk to these guys; what's it going to be like bringing North Koreans into the 21 .st centuary?

Which, in a way, is the whole point of this thread.

Lest we forget who we're dealing with.

Going to be very hard to trust the NK's about nukes when you see the die-hard remnants of the USSR.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #871 on:** March 29, 2005, 08:15:37 PM »

to Staga and Seeker

>>I'm more than critical about what US of A has done lately but I gotta say they were pretty much only reason why you commies couldn't add whole western Europe to your stash like you did with eastern Europe.

Sure. Before that was Evil USSR. Now it`s Evil Arabic Terrorists. After that it would be Evil Communistic China and Evil North Korea With Nuclear Weapons. They always find reason for keeping their bases onto your territory. And you always would belive them, yes?

Don`t you think that sometime (after China, for example) it would Evil Europe Union and their bases onto your territory show their real purpose?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #872 on:** March 29, 2005, 08:16:20 PM »

to Toad

>>The problem with it is that it contains dioxin; when they made it, they didn't realize what dioxin was or what it would do to humans.

Does it justify USA action somehow? They didn`t know what it do, but STILL used it again Vietnam. It`s a crime, Toad.

http://www.ffrd.org/AO/factsheet.htm

Quote

Its use has been banned by the Geneva Convention on Chemical Weapons.

"We didn`t know what it really is" is not plea, Toad. Cause in that way you can use ANY non-tested chemical on civilians during a war and after that said "we didn`t know what it was". Still, your country think that there was no crime and think that there should be no compensation vor vietnam people from government (but they pay compensation to US vietnam veterans, though). Know why?

Cause after that there may be suits by serbs (uranium endings on bombs), iraqs and others, to which your forces "bring democracy" with cassete bombs.

Toad · « **Reply #873 on:** March 29, 2005, 09:11:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
"We didn`t know what it really is" is not plea, Toad.

So, by your logic, no one should ever have used lead-based paint to paint houses.

After all, they "didn't know what it really is".

Are you really that thick?

Wait... maybe it's still OK to use lead-based paint in Russia?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #874 on:** March 29, 2005, 09:37:00 PM »

to Toad

>>So, by your logic, no one should ever have used lead-based paint to paint houses.

No, according to my logic, you shouldn`t fed your babbies with it or paint your body. See the difference? You drop this chemical not only on fields, but on peoples as well. You use it not for weeds, but for mass spraying of vietnam territory - with civilians at their houses. You government don`t even care about lives of it own soldiers.

You try to looking whacky, Toad? Or you really didn`t understand what I`m talking about? Dyoxin is well known poison, one of the most stongerst. Dioxin work very fast (see Ukraine president Yushenko face, he was poisoned with dioxin). Test this chemical on animals before spraing it - is this so was os difficult? And maybe it was tested?

According to doc you give:

Quote

What they didn't realize, or chose to ignore, was that 2,4,5-T contained dioxin, a useless by-product of herbicide production. It would be twenty more years until concern was raised about dioxin, a chemical the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) would later call "one of the most perplexing and potentially dangerous" known to man

Chose to ignore. Or didn`t realize.

Again:

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According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "The toxicity of dioxin renders it capable of killing some species of newborn mammals and fish at levels of five parts per trillion (or one ounce in six million tons). Less than two millionths of an ounce will kill a mouse. Its toxic properties are enhanced by the fact that it can pass into the body through all major routes of entry, including the skin (by direct contact), the lungs (by inhaling dust, fumes or vapors), or through the mouth. Entry through any of these routes contributes to the total body burden.

As you can see, there is no need much time for test dioxin on livings and see what it does. Sure, your scientists know about that. They just ignore this fact. Who cares about this vietnam partisan ****?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #875 on:** March 29, 2005, 09:43:55 PM »

to Toad

>>So, by your logic, no one should ever have used lead-based paint to paint houses.

And comparing killing of vietnam civilians with house painting shows tells much about you.

Using of chemical weapons is a crime. And you bla-bla about "yes, we use chemicals, but we didn`t realize that this thing were weapon" is very stupid.

It`s like point a gun on someone, press the triger and then say "I didn`t realise that this stick can fire bullets". Do this words justify murder in your eyes?

Toad · « **Reply #876 on:** March 29, 2005, 09:51:47 PM »

Yes, you really do fail reading comprehension.

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What they didn't realize, or chose to ignore, was that 2,4,5-T contained dioxin, a useless by-product of herbicide production.

They either didn't know or ignored it had dioxin.

Why? Why would they not know? Why would they ignore it?

Quote

It would be twenty more years until concern was raised about dioxin, a chemical the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) would later call "one of the most perplexing and potentially dangerous" known to man

BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW IT WAS BAD FOR YOU AT THAT TIME.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #877 on:** March 29, 2005, 10:42:04 PM »

to Toad

>>BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW IT WAS BAD FOR YOU AT THAT TIME.

Why your government used nod studied enough chemicals on civilians, then? Maybe test of pharmaceutics that can be poisonous, for example, on civilians is the ordinary thing in you contry? Cause in whole civilized world is not.

Ignorance can be treat as plea in USA? And Osipovich`s ignorance lead them to shot down civil plane. Why you blame him for that, then?

Osipovich words from his intervue to Izvestia:

Quote

"The first missile was launched", continues the intercept pilot,
"when the distance between us was about 5 kilometers. Only then could I
really see the intruder. It was bigger that an IL-76, but its outline
reminded me of a Tu-16. The trouble is that Soviet pilots do not study
civilian aircraft of foreign companies. I knew all the military
aircraft, all the reconnaissance... But that one did not look like any
of them..."

"Did you have any doubts at that moment that you might have done
something wrong?"

"I never thought for a minute that I would be shooting down a
passenger aircraft. Anything but that! Could I admit to pursuing a
"Boeing?"... At that time, I was seeing before me a large aircraft with
flashing lights..."

So, ignorance is good enough plea for USAers, but not for Soviets...

Staga · « **Reply #878 on:** March 30, 2005, 12:17:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
to Staga and Seeker

>>I'm more than critical about what US of A has done lately but I gotta say they were pretty much only reason why you commies couldn't add whole western Europe to your stash like you did with eastern Europe.

Sure. Before that was Evil USSR. Now it`s Evil Arabic Terrorists. After that it would be Evil Communistic China and Evil North Korea With Nuclear Weapons. They always find reason for keeping their bases onto your territory. And you always would belive them, yes?

Don`t you think that sometime (after China, for example) it would Evil Europe Union and their bases onto your territory show their real purpose?

Because of guys like you I think Finland should develope a nuclear weapons.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #879 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:07:42 AM »

How can these 2 make comments about the use of Agent Orange by the USA, who did not know it was toxic, while the Russians, full well knowing the results of doing so > instant death, used chemical weapons in Afganistan?

Despair · « **Reply #880 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:31:37 AM »

I really pity those who hate other nations just for the heck of it.

Seeker · « **Reply #881 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:35:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
to Staga and Seeker

>>I'm more than critical about what US of A has done lately but I gotta say they were pretty much only reason why you commies couldn't add whole western Europe to your stash like you did with eastern Europe.

Sure. Before that was Evil USSR. Now it`s Evil Arabic Terrorists. After that it would be Evil Communistic China and Evil North Korea With Nuclear Weapons. They always find reason for keeping their bases onto your territory. And you always would belive them, yes?

Don`t you think that sometime (after China, for example) it would Evil Europe Union and their bases onto your territory show their real purpose?

You're right to a degree; it IS the nature of established regimes to keep inventing bogeymen. I'm sure if you step back a minute you'll see your comments have a universal value; which of course means they apply equaly to your own country.

Nonetheless; as to the facts in your reply; the USA IS pulling out it's troops from Europe; albeit too slowly for some. In other places; such as Thule (Greenland) it is renegotiating leases with the local population. As far as I'm aware; the only place where US forces could be seen as occupying forces are Cuba and Japan; and I'm not so sure the Japanese governement see it that way; especialy in the light of developments in Korea.

BOTH sides in the cold war did some unspeakable things. BOTH sides in the cold war played God with their own Nationals.

The difference is that the West comes clean faster; is more open to checks and balances and is more reactive to the wishes of the populace when the political imperitive changes.

The crucial difference? The West manufactured barriers to keep people out; the East manufactuers barriers to keep people in.

Why is it nessacery to force people to remain in Paradise? Shouldn't there be a que at the door?

Skydancer · « **Reply #882 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:38:47 AM »

Despair, I agree.

What constitutes a nation? Its Govt or its People?

Can you hate a Govt and like its people?

Raven_2 · « **Reply #883 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:58:50 AM »

to MiloMorai

>>How can these 2 make comments about the use of Agent Orange by the USA, who did not know it was toxic, while the Russians, full well knowing the results of doing so > instant death, used chemical weapons in Afganistan?

If you think that your word is enough for me to belive in this fact, you mistaken. Any links?

BTW, didn`t USA know that uranium warheads may cause lecimia? Still they used it in Yugoslavia...

Skydancer · « **Reply #884 on:** March 30, 2005, 06:07:11 AM »

Longest thread ever?

I dunno but Its approaching 1000

Ok sorry for the diversion back to the arguing.