Author Topic: "Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran  (Read 6176 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2005, 03:12:03 PM »
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The Jews were expelled by the Romans, for a rebellion against Roman military rule. From the Israeli government's ministry of foreign affairs:

"By the end of the 4th century, following Emperor Constantine's adoption of Christianity (313) and the founding of the Byzantine Empire, the Land of Israel had become a predominantly Christian country. Churches were built on Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Galilee, and monasteries were established in many parts of the country.

Jews were deprived of their former relative autonomy, as well as of their right to hold public positions, and were forbidden to enter Jerusalem except on one day of the year (Tisha b'Av - ninth of Av) to mourn the destruction of the Temple.

The Persian invasion of 614 was aided by the Jews, who were inspired by messianic hopes of deliverance. In gratitude for their help, they were granted the administration of Jerusalem, an interlude which lasted about three years. Subsequently, the Byzantine army regained the city (629) and again expelled its Jewish inhabitants."

"The Arab conquest of the Land came four years after the death of the prophet Muhammad (632) and lasted more than four centuries, with caliphs ruling first from Damascus, then from Baghdad and Egypt.

At the outset, Jewish settlement in Jerusalem resumed, and the Jewish community was granted the customary status of protected non-Muslims, which safeguarded their lives, property and freedom of worship in return for payment of special poll and land taxes.

However, subsequent restrictions against non-Muslims (717) affected the Jews' public conduct as well as their religious observances and legal status. The imposition of heavy taxes on agricultural land compelled many to move from rural areas to towns, where their circumstances hardly improved, while increasing social and economic discrimination forced others to leave the country.

By the end of the 11th century, the Jewish community in the Land had diminished considerably and had lost some of its organizational and religious cohesiveness."

The area didn't have a Jewish majority again until some time after the 1948 war.

The first modern census was undertaken by the british in 1922, which found:

The census results were:--

Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
_______

Total ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 757,182


Nashwan, I have nothing to say to this then BULL****.  NOthing but complete BULL****.


The jews were never expelled from Jerusalem.  NEVER.  They might not have always had control, but they were ALWAYS THERE.


Want to know the biggest piece of bull of everything you said?  The breakdown of the population.  #1 clue that you were lying out of your ass.


I'd love to break your statements down word by word as to how you're wrong, but I actually have to do stuff.  Plus you wouldn't listen to a word I'd say anyway.
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Offline Gunslinger

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2005, 03:18:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Nashwan


Spain? Became Muslim under the Moors. So there can be no peace until Spain is again a Muslim country? Forgive me, but I don't see Spanish Christianity being a major problem amongst the Arabs? Or is that why Morocco keeps asking for Ceuta and Mellila? Are they just the first step to demanding Madrid?


how many muslim and jewish holey sites are in the country of spain?  How many crusades were sent to spain to reclaim these sites?

Offline ASTAC

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2005, 03:19:16 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Nashwan, I have nothing to say to this then BULL****.  NOthing but complete BULL****.


The jews were never expelled from Jerusalem.  NEVER.  They might not have always had control, but they were ALWAYS THERE.


Want to know the biggest piece of bull of everything you said?  The breakdown of the population.  #1 clue that you were lying out of your ass.


I'd love to break your statements down word by word as to how you're wrong, but I actually have to do stuff.  Plus you wouldn't listen to a word I'd say anyway.


What do you have that discounts the census results?
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Nashwan

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2005, 03:27:27 PM »
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Nashwan, serious question, do you think photos like this that portray a soldier pointing a rifle at a child (which he is not, he's checking his rifle) tend to sway young minds into a fury


No. I think people who want to be swayed into a fury will be, no matter what picture you show them. People who don't will require much more than a simple picture like that.

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nashwan... what polices worse than apartheid are these poor arabs living under?


Closures, for one. Roads reserved for Jews only, for another. Curfews, for a third. Different systems of courts, for a fourth. And Lazs, they're not even allowed to own guns! The horror!

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sky... generalize? sure.... I'm generalizing.... I generalize that most gang members here are scum and that most jews here are worthless socialists compared to those jews...


Isn't that sort of the opposite of the old prejudice against Jews? That the Ashkenazi weren't too bad, but the oriental Jews were monsters?

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My apologies. I meant travel to and work in Israel.


Most Palestinians have problems trying to travel to and work in the next town.

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Maybe in a perfect world where no one wore bombs.


Oh, collective punishment, you mean? Perhaps you could drive the blacks out of America, because they deal drugs?

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I never said anything about ethnic cleansing. That was a ridiculously pompous statement.


Huh? You said:

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Maybe Israel should just boot them all out, lock the door, put up a few more barriers,


Ethnic cleansing The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide.

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Sounds like an Editorial or an opinion piece?


Editorial. Based on James Wolfensohn's letter of a few days ago (Wolfensohn is the US peace envoy, appointed by Bush)

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maybe that is because they are to busy trying to kill the jews thanto create a country for themselves where they could work and be productive Palestines instead of having to go into Israel for jobs as the biggest "Pal industry" is bombing making...


What, you mean like run the greenhouses in Gaza, export the produce for cash? Read Wolfehsohn's report. Israel is restricting all movement of goods into or out of Palestinian areas, is dragging it's feet on looking at easing the restrictions, and doing so deliberately.

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if the mexicans became suicide bombers, the US would be pointing guns at every strawberry picker too, and if they didn't, there would be an uproar as to why not


Invade Mexico, put it under military occupation, restrict movement, establish settlements. See if the Mexicans remain friendly.

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looks like this one got his five a day limit .. why don't you give him a big high five!


Because I don't like terrorism. I don't like oppresion either, so I won't be high-fiving either side.

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If my neighbor had a dog that kept attacking my kids and he refused to do anything about you'd bet I'd march my happy bellybutton on his property and shoot it myself.


And this analogy applies to Palestinians how? Do you think the child in the picture is a rabid dog? Do you think the Palestinians are a single entity with a single aim and all responsible for the same actions?

By the same token, are all Jews responsible for the actions of some Jews? Do the Jews killed in the terrorist attack today deserve to die because of the actions of other Jews?

Myself, I think people are individuals, and punishing all for the actions of some is wrong. The Geneva convention says the same.

Offline Nashwan

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2005, 03:37:04 PM »
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Nashwan, I have nothing to say to this then BULL****. NOthing but complete BULL****.


The jews were never expelled from Jerusalem. NEVER. They might not have always had control, but they were ALWAYS THERE.


A small minority were. If you don't believe me, how about the Israeli goverment?

"Without the unifying framework of a state and the Temple, the small remaining Jewish community gradually recovered, reinforced from time to time by returning exiles."
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/History+of+Israel/HISTORY-%20The%20Second%20Temple

"By the end of the 4th century, following Emperor Constantine's adoption of Christianity (313) and the founding of the Byzantine Empire, the Land of Israel had become a predominantly Christian country. Churches were built on Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Galilee, and monasteries were established in many parts of the country.

Jews were deprived of their former relative autonomy, as well as of their right to hold public positions, and were forbidden to enter Jerusalem except on one day of the year (Tisha b'Av - ninth of Av) to mourn the destruction of the Temple."
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/History/HISTORY-+Foreign+Domination.htm

"Consequently, the situation of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the New City. By 1870, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. "
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/History/HISTORY-+Foreign+Domination.htm

Either the Israeli government is lying, or you're wrong.

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Want to know the biggest piece of bull of everything you said? The breakdown of the population. #1 clue that you were lying out of your ass.


I'm sorry, but those are the figures obtained by the British census of 1922. See the Mandate report to the League of Nations:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/a682cabf739febaa052565e8006d907c?OpenDocument

Maybe the British were lying in 1922? Or maybe you're wrong about this, as well.

Offline Gunslinger

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2005, 03:40:04 PM »
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Originally posted by Nashwan


And this analogy applies to Palestinians how? Do you think the child in the picture is a rabid dog? Do you think the Palestinians are a single entity with a single aim and all responsible for the same actions?

By the same token, are all Jews responsible for the actions of some Jews? Do the Jews killed in the terrorist attack today deserve to die because of the actions of other Jews?

Myself, I think people are individuals, and punishing all for the actions of some is wrong. The Geneva convention says the same.


It's more applicable than your spain alalogy.  And yes the kid could be the dog in the scenerio.  Children have been suicide bombers before.  I stand by my statement and it goes with your Mexico analogy as well.

Offline Krusher

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2005, 04:00:55 PM »


Ellian Gonzalez?

Offline Krusher

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2005, 04:01:46 PM »
Jordan could easily be called Palestine based on population
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 04:08:44 PM by Krusher »

Offline Gunslinger

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2005, 04:05:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusher
Jordan could easily be called Palistine based on population


Heck you could call southern california and texas, Mexico if you base it on population.

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2005, 04:15:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Heck you could call southern california and texas, Mexico if you base it on population.


how long before you think that happens?

They already have plans

Reconquista

Offline ASTAC

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2005, 04:16:56 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusher
how long before you think that happens?

They already have plans

Reconquista


Yeah, isn't that how the Germans tried to lure Mexico into fighting us in WW1?
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Offline Staga

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2005, 04:18:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Nashwan,

I was tempted to post some graphic pictures of children, infants, and school teachers killed in a recent bus bombing in Israel, but what - aside from further inflaming the debate - would that solve?


- SEAGOON


Yeah and I'd answer by posting pictures of Arabs pulling dead childrens from the ruins of the buildings which israeli missiles blew up.

Are you thinking there's good and bad side in there?
News flash; both sides are killing innocent civilians and you're living in denial if you think Israel is somehow on the "Good side".

Offline ~Caligula~

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before it`d get out of hand...
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2005, 04:26:24 PM »
...u can be sure that these would violate iranian airspace




« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 04:28:54 PM by ~Caligula~ »

Offline straffo

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"Isreal must be wiped off the map" -President of Iran
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2005, 04:45:25 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Astac, it really was Jewish Land.  It always had been.  Jews had lived there long before Islam even existed.


Who lived before the jews and were merciless massacred by a thing called  "יהוה" ?

Offline Seagoon

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Part 1 - One Place Where Nashwan is Historically Correct
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2005, 04:49:10 PM »
Hello Nashwan,

Let me specifically deal with two areas, one were you are historically correct, and one were you aren't. I'm going to have to break them into two replies, because space constraints make it impossible not to...

First you are correct to assert that the Jews were either exterminated or removed from Jerusalem after the first Jewish rebellion collapsed in 70AD. William Hendriksen gives this quick summary of the events:

"The siege began in April of the year a.d. 70, while Jerusalem was still filled with Passover pilgrims. For the terror that ensued one should read Josephus, Jewish War, especially Books IV to VII. After a siege of about five months the Romans finally overwhelmed the entire city. According to Josephus the total number of prisoners taken throughout the entire war was 97,000, while 1,100,000 perished during the siege (Jewish War VI.420). Even though these figures may be exaggerated, the number must have been enormous.

The war was inexcusably cruel. Not only was the temple given up to the flames but the entire city—except three towers and a portion of the western wall—was razed. By the thousands aged men, women, regardless of their physical condition, and even little children were murdered. Some of the prisoners were subsequently thrown to the wild beasts, others were sold into slavery “into all the nations,” while a select number of the strongest and best-looking captives figured in the triumphal procession which Rome gave to the conquerors, and which Josephus describes in such elaborate detail, as if the terrible slaughter were really something to be proud of.

For many, many years no Jew was allowed to reside in or even to visit Jerusalem, which was made a pagan city."
---------------

- SEAGOON
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 04:59:58 PM by Seagoon »
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
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