Why was 109G10 retired ??

[Grits]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Prolly the same reason why Erich Hartmannn would shoot 4-6 of them down at a time.

Hartmann usually got one kill and RTB, he rarely had more than one, and I have never heard of 4-6 in one sortie.

[palef]

I personally don't think the K4 will be a hangar queen, IF people actually get in and try the thing. I got stuck into a couple of giant furballs with numbers heavily against us, and I was flying a K4. I had quite the opposite experience of what I was expecting, managing to get get kills and leave the fight at will, thanks to the magical ROC, and startling acceleration in a shallow dive with WEP on.

It feels faster and nicer than the G10 used to, but I'm no 109 experten.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Grits
Hartmann usually got one kill and RTB, he rarely had more than one, and I have never heard of 4-6 in one sortie.

He plenty of multi-kill sorties:

193 26.2.1944 9:08 P-39 9./JG 52 29 381: at 3.000m
194  26.2.1944  09:16  P-39  9./JG 52  29 384: at 3.000m
195  26.2.1944  11:45  P-39  9./JG 52  29 524: at 4.000m
196  26.2.1944  11:48  P-39  9./JG 52  29 521: at 3.000m
197  26.2.1944  11:53  P-39  9./JG 52  29 514: at 3.000m
198  26.2.1944  11:58  P-39  9./JG 52  29 524: at 2.500m
199  26.2.1944  12:03  P-39  9./JG 52  29 524: at 2.000m

200  26.2.1944  14:40  P-39  9./JG 52  29 552: at 2.500m
201  26.2.1944  14:45  P-39  9./JG 52  29 531: at 3.000m
202  26.2.1944  14:50  P-39  9./JG 52  29 512: at 2.000m

279  22.8.1944  12:20  P-39  9./JG 52  11 274: at 3.000m
280  22.8.1944  12:30  P-39  9./JG 52  11 335: at 2.000m
281  22.8.1944  12:31  P-39  9./JG 52  11 339: at 2.000m

282  22.8.1944  15:17  P-39  9./JG 52  11 411: at 2.000m
283  22.8.1944  15:22  P-39  9./JG 52  11 271: at 1.500m

I can post more but you get the idea...

[Grits]

Originally posted by Bruno
I can post more but you get the idea...

Was that typical or did he "usually" get one and RTB? Werent you the one that posted the fact that he did not push for more once he got a kill or was it someone else? I know fairly recently there was a thread about LW aces where someone mentioned that his normal tactic was he used his wingman as bait, got a kill, and went home.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by 1K3
Tour of Duty will and should replace (MA i hope).  I think its the reason why its important to have *historical loadouts*

From everything I've read, Tour of Duty will not be a very attractive place.

I just want to furball, screw this TOD stuff, I think HT is wasting time on something that we can do withouth.

Just give me a fun MA to play in.

Historical means nothing to me, especially when you are flying a 190, your wingman is in a Spit, and your other wingman is in a Hog.

And then you bounce a 109 with your 190 as an LA7 tries to save the 109's butt.  

Who cares about historical loadouts in a scenario like that?

Give me a break.

Oh!  And TOD will be released in two weeks.

[AutoPilot]

Historical means nothing to me, especially when you are flying a 190, your wingman is in a Spit, and your other wingman is in a Hog.

That means you would be leaving both of them behind.

[1K3]

(if Aces High ToD is released today...)

Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.

(hmmmm what a dream come true for those who want to see more people playing in ALLIES  vs  AXIS match:))

[Fariz]

ToD shall by the design has the different target audience.

Sure MA will stay. It may be even more people in MA when ToD arives (may be not at once, but after couple of months).

Success of ToD will depends on many factors. Despite it development takes so long, we still have high hopes for it, and trust HTC design. If it will be what I want and what I hope for, I will mainly fly it, keeping MA as a training arena. If it won't, I probably will cancel account, because I am burned out with MA and its gameplay model. MA is a great arcade arena, it has a lot of people, lot of good friends, great people, great pilots, often  very fun fights, but just after 6 years in a game I simply can't motivate myself to fly seriously in it.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Damn I agree with that!

Unfortunatly, I fear ToD, when it is finally released, will be nothing more then a bigger, more development expensive CT with almost no players in it.

CT is unstructured. Just a correct planeset does not make it historic.

I still think it is quite possible to make it around ~120 people at pick hours. As scenarious shows, stuctured environment can be fun. It also a lot of people who cares about immersion.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Grits
Was that typical or did he "usually" get one and RTB? Werent you the one that posted the fact that he did not push for more once he got a kill or was it someone else? I know fairly recently there was a thread about LW aces where someone mentioned that his normal tactic was he used his wingman as bait, got a kill, and went home.

Multiple kill sorties weren't typical for any pilot, especially not in the 4-6 range. However, in Hartmann's case he happened to get numerous multi-kill sorties (2-3 range), at least enough of them that it wasn't 'unusual'.

His claims for 26.2.1944 represent 3 sorties for a total of 10 P-39 claims.

I never said Hartman only got 1 kill at a time. In the past I have said he was what the main would consider 'timid', 'Hit and run'. However he would hit hard, especially into tight formations. He wouldn't stick around to 'dogfight to the death'.  See the times on his claims, minutes apart then nothing until the next sortie. In the other thread about Hartmann I said that his exact kill claims / types claimed / totals were hard to narrow down.

FYI:

ToD will be a continuous ongoing war in that AI is there to fill slots. Since ToD is mission oriented you don't need an arena of 500 players, you just need enough to make a mission fun. I don't care much about fighting AI myself but we can choose the mission and times we fly. When their are enough human players in a mission then I will fly. The CT is different in that 90% of the day there are less the 5 people in the arena. Not many will head there because there will be nothing to do. ToD will at least have AI to put up some semblance of a fight.

[Grits]

Ahh...I remembered it wrong, thanks.

[Squire]

Amen IK3, I hope they do that.

How about "Main Arena"=ToD

Then "Furball Arena" under that.

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by 1K3
(if Aces High ToD is released today...)

Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.

(hmmmm what a dream come true for those who want to see more people playing in ALLIES  vs  AXIS match:))

It's not a very nice thing to say, but pay your money like we do, or STFU about closing the arena you're too cheap to pay for. I like the MA, I don't give a rat's bellybutton about H2H. ToD won't replace the MA; it's not intended too. It'll give the scenario people, and the box sim crowd, an alternative to the MA. Remember, lil H2H dude- you guys have never made a single cent for HTC- the MA puts food on their table.

Carry on.

[Grits]

Originally posted by 1K3
Just put the TOUR OF DUTY (in Bold, extra large and all capitalized letters) arena above Dueling Arena, Special Events, Training arena, and last but not least... main arena (in small letters) on the arena list then lets hope more people will be lured to ToD and leave MA 1/16th full of its full capacity.

LOL, yeah sure. How about we remove H2H and make you slackers start paying for the services you get from HTC. I like that idea better.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I like the MA, I don't give a rat's bellybutton about H2H. ToD won't replace the MA; it's not intended too. It'll give the scenario people, and the box sim crowd, an alternative to the MA.