Democrats Want to Lose another war

[bj229r]

We lost about 300 guys defeating Saddam, and have lost about 1800 over the last 2 1/2 years, during which time we've killed 45,000-50,000 'insurgents'. The radical Muslims are hell-bent on ENDING our way of life, and they've chosen to make Iraq the battlefield. If we leave, we admit defeat in their eyes, (and the worlds' eyes) and concede all that we've fought for the last 4 years, and the Dems will immediately start trumpeting that all those guys died for nothing--which, if we leave, will have been the case.

[Nash]

Originally posted by bj229r
"If we leave, we admit defeat in their eyes, (and the worlds' eyes) and concede all that we've fought for the last 4 years."

Okay, then how does the US military win?

Is the status-quo over there gonna cut it?

Honestly. Just keeping doing whatever it is they're doing, and it's suddenly going to turn around?

It's one thing to say "If we leave, we admit defeat in their eyes"... and another to actually avoid defeat.

You say: "we've killed 45,000-50,000 'insurgents'".... but chances are there's 100,000 brand new insurgents who wouldn't have been insurgents but for the bungling of this war. A net gain of 50,000 insurgents. That's progress?

Meanwhile, what.... 25 US kids get killed a week.

So I just fail to see how sticking it out for sticking it out's sake gets anyone anywhere.

If worlds collided, and a whole bunch of mystical crap happened and suddenly it was up to me to make the decision, my choices would be:

Status quo, do something different, or leave.

Status quo aint working. I don't know what else to do. So I'd cut my losses.

Hows about you?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash

Status quo aint working. I don't know what else to do. So I'd cut my losses.

Hows about you?

That's just it, there IS progress in Iraq but the media doesnt show it and if they did you'd refuse to see it for what it's worth.

"we don't report every safe landing at JFK we only report the crashes, that's what makes it news -CBS producer"

[Nash]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's just it, there IS progress in Iraq but the media doesnt show it...

Lets see...

You know there is "progress in Iraq," yet you say the media doesn't show it.

Can you point me to whatever un-media source you have upon which you derive your conclusion?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Lets see...

You know there is "progress in Iraq," yet you say the media doesn't show it.

Can you point me to whatever un-media source you have upon which you derive your conclusion?

Well lets see here.....the latest elections that were over shadowed by the 2000th death.  Ask the grunts in the field what the think of....both of them and they'll say the 2000th death is just another statistic the elections are history.  I would venture to say 99% of them don't want their face on a moveon.org add.

[Nash]

Thanks, but I was looking for how you come up with your statement: "there IS progress in Iraq".

Not a "venture to say"....

Can you be of a little more help here?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Thanks, but I was looking for how you come up with your statement: "there IS progress in Iraq".

Not a "venture to say"....

Can you be of a little more help here?

So democratic elections were more of the population participates than in other democracies aren't a victory over insurgants telling them "don't vote or else"


Things like this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4450582.stm don't get reported enough.

[Gunslinger]

One more for Nash:

Out Of Iraq?
That is the title that was on the bottom of the television as “Scoborough Country”, a show on MSNBC, was playing. Myself, as well as a few fellow soldiers, sat in disbelief as we listened to one of his guests call for the complete withdrawal of American troops from Iraq.

It is so easy for analysts, reporters, and politicians to sit back and criticize the war in Iraq. All of these people are blind to what really goes on here, and they will never fully understand since they are not on the ground fighting this war. Congressman John Murtha, D-Pa., in a recent AP release said, “I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that.” What war did you serve in again Mr. Murtha? Last time I checked you served in the Vietnam conflict, and the military is in a much different place now than we were then. I realize that Rep. Murtha is a decorated Vietnam veteran, and I thank him for his service….but the technology and tactics of this war era are night and day compared to the war that he served in.

I am just disgusted when I see and hear reports calling for the pullout of our military from Iraq. The American people do not see what really goes on here, all they see is what the media wants them to…and I think that we all know that the media likes to put a negative spin on it as well. I am here to tell you that everyday we are winning over the hearts of the people of Iraq. If you could see the smiling faces that I have seen you would know that we are making a difference in this country. I volunteered for the military, no one made me sign on that dotted line. Let me stay here and finish what we have started Mr. Murtha.
http://willwhitley1.blogspot.com/

[Nash]

That is what you base your rosy picture of Iraq on?

Asked and answered, I suppose. So thanks.

(yikes....)

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
That is what you base your rosy picture of Iraq on?

Asked and answered, I suppose. So thanks.

(yikes....)

oops my mistake.  The all knowing Nash from Canada knows more about what the troops in Iraq face every day than the troops themselves.  My bad.  

[oboe]

Originally posted by Shifty
Nice try but don't  be condecending.  I'm not just talking of Murtha. I do believe that Dems, and the media lick their lips with every American death. I do believe they want this country to fail. For no other reason then politics.

As far as Murtha. His service to this country as a U.S Marine is admirable. His dis-service to the Marines, and Soldiers, in Iraq yesterday is reprehensable. Al-Jazera TV was very impressed with Mr Murtha yesterday.  Seems the DNC, and AQ , now both think him a hero.

 I'm as sick of this war as anybody. I'm also not a blind Bush lover. He's made a lot of screwups while in office. Spending , immigration, and I personally think he should have worried about Bin-Laden first and foremost.   I've questioned his IQ is when he's tried to cozy to DEMs like letting that drunk bastage Kennedy work on the No Child Left Behind Bill. Expecting the DEMS to play nice and pound him dailey about the war effort pisses me off. Instead of being quiet he should have been out there everyday stating why he has our troops in Iraq , and pushing for their support.

 I can't accept that you would wish the best for my family or any other military family. While at the same time  you support and promote the politics , and people that make their lives more dangerous everyday. It's people like you the AQ count on to get America to cave.
Maybe you should question if your in the right mind. Or at least question where your  heart is.

Again many thanks for your support to our nation in time of war.

That is one helluva chip you have on your shoulder.   I wasn't being condescending, but completely sincere.

Your view of Dems and the media is so warped I'm unsure how to respond.  Not to defend either, but just to point out how dangerous it is for you to be so consumed by anger and hatred toward them.   And I mean consumed to the point of irrationality, if you literally believe what you've said here.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
The all knowing Nash from Canada knows more about what the troops in Iraq face every day than the troops themselves.

I'm not sure it's indictitive.  Out of the 40 odd million Iraqis, how many does this guy see?  How many of the smiling Iraqis go on to report troop movements?

If things are getting better it isn't been shown in decreased casualties.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn
I'm not sure it's indictitive.  Out of the 40 odd million Iraqis, how many does this guy see?  How many of the smiling Iraqis go on to report troop movements?

If things are getting better it isn't been shown in decreased casualties.

Well I hate to say this but it's how I feel and that is casualties have been relativly light compared to almost all past conflicts.  The invasion itself was a smashing success but the occupation has taken it's toll.  I'm sure one could look at the statistics and tie the rises with the elections (both theirs and ours)  but statistically speaking you have a greater chance of dieing in a car accident in the US than you do being a US servicman serving in Iraq.  Again I don't want to downplay the casualties and I don't want to use the number for politics but since it was brought up I really don't think things are as bad as the news reflects.  All you have to do is talk to a few that have been there.  Here's a good break down http://icasualties.org/oif/

[Shifty]

Originally posted by oboe
That is one helluva chip you have on your shoulder.   I wasn't being condescending, but completely sincere.

Your view of Dems and the media is so warped I'm unsure how to respond.  Not to defend either, but just to point out how dangerous it is for you to be so consumed by anger and hatred toward them.   And I mean consumed to the point of irrationality, if you literally believe what you've said here.

Okay let me see if I understand this....................... I'm irrational because I believe the Dems are doing everything possible to lose this war for their own political gain? My view of dems, and the media is warped because I don't trust them. Well let me rephrase that part. I trust them to only show what they want you to see, and hear. Truth and accuracy are not important to them. So that makes me dangerous?

Yet you believe that George Bush started the war on a lie. Keeps American troops in harms way, not to protect the interest of the USA, but to help Cheny get rich on Halliburton stock? You also think that Democratic congressmen who constantly attack Bush, and his handling of the war are doing the right thing? Even though this gives aid and comfort to the enemy? You'll believe anything the press tells you.

So your view is not warped, and your perfectly rational?

Funny I see you as the dangerous one.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Shifty
You also think that Democratic congressmen who constantly attack Bush, and his handling of the war are doing the right thing? Even though this gives aid and comfort to the enemy? You'll believe anything the press tells you.

Or say, Theodore Roosevelt...

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."


But what would that bleeding heart know about being President in a time of war.