Author Topic: Corsair & Hellcat in Mediitteranean theater. (Read 3942 times)

hogenbor · « **Reply #75 on:** November 25, 2005, 04:44:40 AM »

It gives me a warm feeling that a Spit and a Fw-190 expert can have a constructive discussion in ths thread... Thank heavens this is not of the 109 flamefests.

Anyway, Crumpp, you compare the Flugwerk birds to a Volkswagen with a fiberglass Lamborghini body, are they really that much different to real Fw-190's? I'd expect them to be different yes, 60 years later, due to all sorts of legislation and also different manufacturing processes, but are they that bad? I had the distinct impression (naive as I might be) that they are as close to real Fw-190's as reasonably possible at this point in time...

bozon · « **Reply #76 on:** November 25, 2005, 06:30:14 AM »

Flugwerk have not yet installed the Myth Generator in their reconstructed bird. After they do it will perform like the real thing 60 years ago.

oh, yes. They also need to erase the colors. I have pictures prooving that 190s were painted in black and white.

Bozon

Angus · « **Reply #77 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:04:19 AM »

Interesting.
What is it that makes the Flugwerk bird that different?
If anything, I'd think it would be a tad lighter due to more modern materials.
BTW there is a scaled down Spitfire on the market. Runs on some 200 hp, does some 170 knots if I remember right, needs a very short runway and climbs some odd 2500 fpm!

Crumpp · « **Reply #78 on:** November 25, 2005, 07:53:46 AM »

Quote

What is it that makes the Flugwerk bird that different?

http://www.flugwerk.com/new/fw190/fw190.shtm

Quote

Flugwerk have not yet installed the Myth Generator in their reconstructed bird.

You a little bitter, bozon?

Quote

Anyway, Crumpp, you compare the Flugwerk birds to a Volkswagen with a fiberglass Lamborghini body, are they really that much different to real Fw-190's?

Yes it is a different aircraft with different performance. That does not make it bad, just different. In fact the Flugwerk birds should be pretty hot as they are much lighter than an FW-190. The VVS motor does not develop as much power as the BMW801 did in the FW-190A8 however. They have to add some cooling drag to get that motor to properly cool. Funny that they are having the same problem the BMW801 had after the exhaust reroute too. It will be interesting to see where the number lie.

I just offered my opinion. After working on the real thing it kind of diminishes the enjoyment of a substitute, like other things in life.

All the best,

Crumpp

Debonair · « **Reply #79 on:** November 25, 2005, 05:01:34 PM »

Any plans for the Flugwerk plane to go to Reno?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #80 on:** November 25, 2005, 05:46:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Hehe, from masherbrum:
"For example: I read Flyboys 8 months before it was released, and still have the pre-pub to Flags of our Fathers"

Maybe you saw the film? I did, from the scene, nener nener
look here http://www.flagsofourfathers.net

I am in email correspondance to James Bradley. He is a good person, and a masterful writer. One of these days, we'll catch in Rye, NY.

Karaya

bozon · « **Reply #81 on:** November 26, 2005, 02:37:05 PM »

relax Crumpp, I was just poking you a little.

Bozon

Angus · « **Reply #82 on:** November 28, 2005, 10:56:07 AM »

Hey Karaya, I met Bradley and his kids on the film scene! Nice guy.
I was wearing makeup at the time - seems the japs wounded me with a grenade so I had a scarred face (closeup camera). The Bradley kids had some on the too just for fun!
Anyway walked from the scene with him and had a chat.
As a sidenote he expressed the opinion that the film will look very much like the real thing. He's now been 4 times to Iwo.

And Crumpp:
"Do you have a report on the Spitfires elevator authority? Do you understand it?"

I know enough to say that it was as well as the c O g, enough to disintergrate the aircraft. So, they added bob weights on the elevators untill they were satisfied. That's from Quill as well as test pilot Tony Bartley.

Anyway TY for the flugwerk link. Had lost it. Now, the question is, how much does this new bird suffer in performance? It has a wee less power but is lighter, so?

MANDO · « **Reply #83 on:** November 28, 2005, 11:56:53 AM »

just a note about the rolling agility of AH 190 vs AH Spits.

In AH, previous to last two patches I didnt test, roll is a minor advantage as roll acceleration is similar between Spits and 190s. Final roll rate (or maximum roll rate) like we saw many times in the NACA graphs is mostly useless in combat without considering time needed to achieve maximum roll rates.

If we look into the spit pilots reports fighting 190s, the most probable conclussion is not that 190 roll rate was superior, but much more important, that time to achieve that roll rate was far superior. That is what explains these ecounters where the spit pilots were simply unable to follow the 190 maneouvers.

In AH, current spits (previous to last two patches) have little or no problem following any 190 chage in direction at gun range unless the speed si too high.

Karnak · « **Reply #84 on:** November 28, 2005, 12:32:30 PM »

I would so love to have one of those Fw190A-8/Ns.

Well, if I win the lottery.

2bighorn · « **Reply #85 on:** November 28, 2005, 02:26:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDO
just a note about the rolling agility of AH 190 vs AH Spits.

In AH, previous to last two patches I didnt test, roll is a minor advantage as roll acceleration is similar between Spits and 190s. Final roll rate (or maximum roll rate) like we saw many times in the NACA graphs is mostly useless in combat without considering time needed to achieve maximum roll rates.

If we look into the spit pilots reports fighting 190s, the most probable conclussion is not that 190 roll rate was superior, but much more important, that time to achieve that roll rate was far superior. That is what explains these ecounters where the spit pilots were simply unable to follow the 190 maneouvers.

In AH, current spits (previous to last two patches) have little or no problem following any 190 chage in direction at gun range unless the speed si too high.

Exactly! How quickly you can complete first 180 degrees of a roll is what counts.
I remember first AH old FM KI-84 version. It was the only AH ac which could utilize the roll successfully against a spitty in a boot fight... And 190 should be even better, or so I've heard...

Angus · « **Reply #86 on:** November 29, 2005, 09:22:40 AM »

I admire the ability of a good 190 pilot to swing out of my Spitfire's sights untill he has extended.
That applies to the Mk V and IX, but the VIII is faster down low, and the XVI or the XIV.....nope.

agent 009 · « **Reply #87 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:22:35 PM »

But of course the 14 & 12 Spits would be also compared to Doras, which is a different story.

The ability to shake off a Spit in a turn is not purely defensive as it also allows 190 to reengage from a vantage position.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #88 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:29:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by agent 009
But of course the 14 & 12 Spits would be also compared to Doras, which is a different story.

The ability to shake off a Spit in a turn is not purely defensive as it also allows 190 to reengage from a vantage position.

XII was already out of service before the Dora arrived. Last combat flights in September 44 with 41 Squadron. Dora not until October 44.

XII was introduced in February 43 as a direct result of the low alt 190 fighter bomber raids to the South Coast of England. It's adversary was the 190A variants not the D

Squire · « **Reply #89 on:** November 29, 2005, 04:36:54 PM »

I imagine that was due to the Griffon powered Spit XIV taking over for it. Needless duplication. That and the Jabo threat in S. England had largely disappeared by that date, the fighting being on the Continent since 6-44. That being said I could have seen the XII soldiering on untill wars end, especially on 150 octane, but I guess they had their reasons.