Furballs vs Shedders: Developmental Perspective

[E25280]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Good point.

The answer is simple ... fly in the fur for a little while and judge if this is really fur flying or it's a botched/stalled capture attempt. Also, get in the air and ask some fellow countrymen ... is this a botched capture or is this just a furball ? Depending on the answer you get, make your decision.

If I was flying in furball and you asked on vox or country text ... I would tell ya what I though and would recommend to leave it alone, or go bomb them and slow them down.

Simple ... right ?

In theory, sure.  Then . . .

5 people tell you they're just furballing.  7 people say "drop the hangers".  4 people say "I dunno, I just got here".  1 person a half sector away says "I'm in a goon, I need cover."  6 people don't respond.  2 begin whining because during all that, they couldn't hear the "check six" calls.  Besides all that, you have to decide what the other side is truly thinking as well.  So in practice . . .

I suppose I could have just said, "In the small maps, I don't think there is a such thing as a pure furball."

[mars01]

I suppose I could have just said, "In the small maps, I don't think there is a such thing as a pure furball."

BINGO!  Now your getting it.

And that is the problem.  There used to be.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Precisely, this is the whole reason I took it upon myself to master the 37mm and help others master it. To push fights away from fields and create furballs and fun fights for everyone where there would otherwise just be vulching...

You let your fuballing minions go off to die while you sat in your luxurious AAA bunker?

Blashpemer!

Cardinal Fang, fetch the Comfy Chair!



... but, really, we all know that's not the "whole reason" ...

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
... The fact that HTC is not intervening to end this discussion is proof positive they see some redeeming value in it from a future game development perspective... This is their corporate website, they would not allow threads with no actual or potential value to the game continue to exist. ...

Like the various BK threads.

Maybe HT just needs a good laugh once in a while.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Toad
As if the current gameplay in the rest MA is worth preserving.

Aces Horde?

Hordewarrior?

Steamroll and Conquer?

Doesn't matter, your missing the point.

If thats the way the majority want to play, thats the way they'll play, like it or not.
Any changes to FT's on maps should not affect the way the majority seem to want to play the game.
Just because their style of play doesn't sit well with you doesn't make them wrong and you right.
OR vice versa.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Kev367th
If thats the way the majority want to play, thats the way they'll play, like it or not.

Nor does it mean that HT can't see what a clusterfox it is and reshape gameplay as he sees fit.

Clearly it needs some reshaping. Surely you are not so ostrich as to be unable to see that?

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Like the various BK threads.

 

The BK threads are an interesting commentary on the vagaries of group dynamics within the game. I find them quite interesting as does HiTech I am sure...

Zazen

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Doesn't matter, your missing the point.

If thats the way the majority want to play, thats the way they'll play, like it or not.
Any changes to FT's on maps should not affect the way the majority seem to want to play the game.
Just because their style of play doesn't sit well with you doesn't make them wrong and you right.
OR vice versa.

But ask the next question. Why do they want to play that way? Because it's easy and, more importantly, it works. The fact that it works is not something that community standards can change. It's the mechanics of the MA. And you're right, they've needed a overhaul for a while.


But at this moment in time HTC is more focused on CT. I don't think any of us know what the impact of that will be. But I'll give you furballers something scary to ponder:

When scenarios first cranked up, players who fell in love with that format started looking at the MA's as merely places to practice. Since CT centers on group operations, think about what happens to the MA if it catches on. All these new mini-hordes of land-grabbin', hangar-bustin', sheep-pokin' Ubergenerals pouring into the MA. Practicing their craft. Not caring about anything but getting their bombers to target and popping every ground structure. Or going up in gruppes of 190's and B&Z'ing every low furball to dust.

... And ya ... tell me ... over and over and over again, my friend ... ya can't believe ... we're on the eve ... of destruction.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Toad
Nor does it mean that HT can't see what a clusterfox it is and reshape gameplay as he sees fit.

Clearly it needs some reshaping. Surely you are not so ostrich as to be unable to see that?

Doesn't matter what I see or what I think is wrong.
If the majority of players are happy with things the way they are, or playing the game the way they do, who am I to force my style of play of them.

The gist of the whole thread is our way is the right way of playing AH2, the majority is wrong, therefore our changes should be implemented EVEN if it affects the everyone else.

As I said IF the changes proposed can be implemented in FT WITHOUT altering anything else then I don't see why it shouldn't happen.
I just don't think without custom tiles / fields it is possible, plus the conditions for resetting the map would also need changing.

Why would he alter gameplay when it seems the majority as happy with things the way they are?

[edit] Had an idea. One of the problems is guys in their uber boosted late war rides cherry picking furballs from what I can gather.
Why not support the inclusion of mist / fog in the game. From what I recall the Saturday HT tried it out on the MA it was impossible to sit at high alt and see the low alt cons below. This would get a large backing from the general players.
Make it random times, random durations.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Doesn't matter what I see or what I think is wrong.
If the majority of players are happy with things the way they are, or playing the game the way they do, who am I to force my style of play of them.

 

I think you are over-simplifying the role of the game developer. While noone will really know for certain what the majority is/wants, short of a 1 vote per paid account poll on each and every issue it's safe to say HiTech has a grand vision.

If anything was learned from AW it was complacency is fatal. It was developmental complacency that initially opened the door for a market for AH in the first place and coined the infamous phrase from developers, "Coming in 2 weeks", which is like a bar with a sign that says, "Free Beer Tomorrow".

As we saw with the ENY thingy there are changes that we asked for, there are changes that occur as a result of HiTech's grand vision of the evolution of the game and there are changes we get not because we want them per se, but because we need them for our own collective good, HTC's and ours as a community...Discussions like these can be a catalyst for any or all 3 types of changes. AH is not a democracy, the community is expanding and changing demographically, HiTech has a finger on the pulse of the game, these forums are one way for him to more fully understand what changes are needed amidst this game in constant flux.

So, while these discussions may seem like a pissing contest, they really serve an important purpose. In a very real way we, as representatives of the community who choose to participate on these forums, along with HiTech and his staff, are actively partipipating in the dynamic evolutionary development of this product. Without discussions such as these and participation on these forums HiTech and staff would have to do alot of guessing about what works and what doesn't in the game which is tricky business for an ever-changing massively multi-player game. We take the guess-work out of the development cycle in effect making HTC the best game developer they can be...

Zazen

[shiningpathb4me]

"What is causing the problems is a systematic and concerted effort by many newer players and many veterans (who know better) in buffs and jabos attempting and often succeeding to all but erase furballs and meaningfull protracted fights from the maps, including those at formal fightertowns..."


I read zazens reply up to that point.  Paranoid, ignorant, arrogant, geez - There really isnt anything he could possibly ever say that could erase that evaluation.  The maps we play on have quite a few bases, with a variety of vehicles/planes and spawn points. Somebody who wants to fly around in a bomber while online  has just as mucha right to do it as someone who prefers fighters.  How anyone could be so stupid as to think that AH2 was designed only for them escapes me.

The darwinian element of the original thread is so arrogant and ridiculous I can't believe I made it as far as Zazens reply. Your 19th century logic is boring in the extreme.

There is a dueling arena for anyone who wants protracted 1v1 fights. DOn't bore the rest of us with your silly accusations and moronic logic
The "fighter town" you are so proud of doesn't provide protracted 1v1 and it has nothing to do with idiots trying to bomb the hangars. The word "Furball" and the expression "protracted duel" simply don't belong in the same sentence. A furball has nothing to do with ACM's, dueling, or anything else.

A furball is for lazy dweebs who for whatever reason aren't interested in participating in the game with everyone else. Thats cool - do whatever you want - but somehow bringing skill level, experience, evolution, etc into your stupid argument is just, well, nonsense. Of course I'm wasting my breath here, because many of you don't function at a high enough level to understand what I'm talking about.

[Kev367th]

Agreed Zazen, the difference is the majority of players wanted some kind of change regarding countries with overwhelming numbers.

I'm sure if changes can be made to FT that doesn't affect the rest of the arena you'll get them...eventually.
They have a lot on their plate at the moment.

Will disagree with one point - I think we CAN safely say that the people who fly in FT are definately in the minority of the AH population. I think the 100 or so guesstimate is pretty much in the ballpark, and thats out of 500+ players overall.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by shiningpathb4me
[BA furball has nothing to do with ACM's, dueling, or anything else.

A furball is for lazy dweebs who for whatever reason aren't interested in participating in the game with everyone else.  [/B]

WoW! so much anger and ignorance all at once, freaky!!

Put down the crack-pipe and step away slowly with your hands up!

I don't know (or care) who you are or what planet you're from but......

I think we've un-masked one of the culprits that eggs FHs to kill fights simply because of some irrational disdain for people who enjoy air to air combat for it's own sake...



Zazen

[Shaky]

What's up with that ? ... I believe that the twist crowd has tried every which way but loose to come up with a solution (much like the posts above) that could be implemented to satisfy all.
[/B]

I've made several suggestions, as DoK has...neither of us are "furball" types....we used to call them "SpitDweebs"

Changing the FH drops to analog (to use DoKs term) and ensuring that you will always be able to up some type of fighter (yes, even a P40) will go a long way to guaranteeing close, intense fights that involve ALL players...and thats the best type of game play.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Kev367th


Will disagree with one point - I think we CAN safely say that the people who fly in FT are definately in the minority of the AH population. I think the 100 or so guesstimate is pretty much in the ballpark, and thats out of 500+ players overall.

Short of flying around and getting a head-count there's no way I can further argue that point. But, the FT problem is just an extreme example of a greater problem. The problem is it's too easy to render fields useless. One heavy fighter with no regard for his ultimate virtual fate should not be able to render a field all but useless. One bomber pilot with griefing on his mind should not be able to, from a prohibitively high altitude, end the fight for 50+ players. These issues need to be resolved, the FT issue only effects one map, for a few days, once every 8 weeks. The other issues I just mentioned effect every map, every day, all the time, 365 days a year and it's the core source of the problems as they are represented in the Toolshed vs. Furballer debate...

Zazen